Odyssey Marine Article...

No hatred here Ossy, much less towards our “Motherland”. What bothers me in this case is the biased coverage the Spanish press has shown in the way the “facts” have been presented since the very beginning. A perfect example is this article you posted, though published in a German newspaper, it states that the Alvear descendants are “pro-Spain” in this legal battle. Nothing farther from the truth. There are two teams of descendants claiming the coins as heirs, very crucial information the readers are not told. What happened with the “truth in journalism” that one can expect from a reputable paper? I love Spain!

It is not necessarily the case that every descendant of Alvear would have a legitimate claim to his former property. In many cases it is the eldest son that inherits the father's estate and belongings, unless specific provisions are put in the will. I don't know if that is the case with Alvear and his descendants.

I post this message here and in other thread (smoke and mirrors) because I dont known where it will fix better. Excuse me.
As usual, there is always somebody who add some new fact or theory to the Black Swan issue. And what is the most curious thing is that some people, trying to help Spain do exactly the opposite. Now there is a spanish researcher, Antonio Moreno Hurtado, who says that he has the documents that prove the coins belongs to Spain. He says that all the coins in “La Mercedes” belongs to Spain because all these coins were brand new (nuevo cuño), not coins already circulating on “market”, and for the same reason, not belonging to the spanish merchants on colonies. This argument, if finally were true, that looks at first glance very positive to Spain in this trial against Odyssey, could be the key Odyssey were waiting for: if all the coins aboard the “La Mercedes” were brand new, the coins Odyssey has found on the Black Swan site were never aboard the “Mercedes” because not even one (as far as I know) is a brand new coin. All the coins in this “treasure” are “used coins”, circulating money that was took at a moment to be keep in boxes to be send to Spain.

http://www.diariodesevilla.es/artic...ueba/tesoro/odyssey/es/espanol.html

Newsweek Article...

http://www.newsweek.com/id/212020

Odyssey Marine Exploration Completes Phase One of "Symphony" Project
• Press Release
• Source: Odyssey Marine Exploration, Inc.
• Thursday August 27, 2009, 5:00 pm EDT

TAMPA, Fla.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Odyssey Marine Exploration, Inc. (NasdaqCM:OMEX), pioneers in the field of deep-ocean shipwreck exploration, recently completed the first phase of survey in the search area code named “Symphony”. The work was conducted under a government permit in an exclusive claim area and in conjunction with a project partner. Results of the survey are being analyzed and compiled into a report which will be provided to the government before the next phase of work is commenced. Preliminary review of the data suggests that four shipwrecks have been located in the phase one search area, but at this point, none of the sites have been conclusively identified.

“This new search area has long been considered a target-rich environment for valuable shipwrecks and we’re thrilled to have the opportunity to work here in cooperation with the government,” said Greg Stemm, Odyssey CEO. “Research suggests that at least two shipwrecks in the ‘Symphony’ area are commercial vessels with significant cargoes of gold coins, which are very hot commodities today in the collector market.”

The expedition was conducted by the Odyssey search team on a chartered vessel. To protect the security of the search area, specific location details are not being released at this time. Proceeds of any recoveries from this search area will be split with the government and project partner with an anticipated 78% of the gross income of the project retained by Odyssey.

Did anybody heard any statement of Barak Obama on these last days talking about the Black Swan issue or Odyssey? Yesterday, here in Spain, the TV channel La Sexta said on its news (Saturday, 15.30 PM) that Obama talk about it and the USA president said that any shipwreck over 100 years laying on the bottom of the sea was an archaeological site and shouldn't be touched. This channel also said that Obama recommended Odyssey to give back the treasure to Spain, the real owner the "treasure". I don't know, it sounded strange to me to imagine a president of USA directing an specific position about a legal issue still on trial. I went to Google and I didn't find anything in relation with this. Thanks.

Finally I have found the origin of this new:

http://www.abc.es/20090830/cultura-...ea-futuro-odyssey-200908300013.html

It says that the US Navy (vice admiral James W. Houck) and the Secretary of State (by the ambassador David A. Balton, assistant to this Secretary for marines affaires) made a public statement "against" Odyssey commercial interests. Any information about this new situation?

Well, well, well.

Just when I thought that this case could not get any more bizarre than it already is.

Mariner

The Justice Dept. filed a brief that backs Spain's position. Coincidentally, the woman that drafted that brief for the DOJ is married to an attorney that worked for Goold's law firm.    

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federa...da/flmdce/8:2007cv00614/197978/235/

Here's a translation of the ABC article.

http://tinyurl.com/njg7nj

Could anybody clarify me two things? It is normal in US that the DoJ put its opinion on a legal issue that is still on his way to be solved? And two, how this brief can affect the final direction of this legal issue and how it could affect to Judge Marryday on his decision? Thanks.

Could anybody clarify me two things? It is normal in US that the DoJ put its opinion on a legal issue that is still on his way to be solved? And two, how this brief can affect the final direction of this legal issue and how it could affect to Judge Marryday on his decision? Thanks.

Amicus briefs are normal. Judge Merryday should make his decision on the merits of the case.

Amicus curiae or amicus curiæ (plural amici curiae) is a legal Latin phrase, literally translated as "friend of the court", that refers to someone, not a party to a case, who volunteers to offer information on a point of law or some other aspect of the case to assist the court in deciding a matter before it. The information may be a legal opinion in the form of a brief, a testimony that has not been solicited by any of the parties, or a learned treatise on a matter that bears on the case. The decision whether to admit the information lies with the discretion of the court.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amicus_curiae

FRAP 29. BRIEF OF AN AMICUS CURIAE
A brief of an amicus curiae may be filed only if accompanied by written consent of all parties, or by leave of court granted on motion or at the request of the court, except that consent or leave shall not be required when the brief is presented by the United States or an officer or agency thereof, or by a State, Territory or Commonwealth.

Referring to the 1902 Treaty between Spain and the USA, the judge in the SeaHunt case in 2000 said "A treaty between two countries means what those two countries agree that it means." That was the basis for the judge ruling that a Spanish shipwreck in US waters was not abandoned except by a specific statement of abandonment by its owner, even though the Treaty itself contains no such statement.

It strikes me that what the US Government apperas to be doing now is restating, for the purpose of the court, the meaning of the Treaty, extending it to International waters and to State-owned ships that were carrying personal property.

If this is the case, then I think that the court will act on the new interpretation of the meaning of the 1902 Treaty (Spain's arguments and the magistrate's preliminary recommendations already reflected this position, and this latest US Government statement demonstrates their agreement), and rule against Odyssey.

Personally, I don't think that the US Government should be acting in this way, but that's life, I guess.

Mariner

Referring to the 1902 Treaty between Spain and the USA, the judge in the SeaHunt case in 2000 said "A treaty between two countries means what those two countries agree that it means." That was the basis for the judge ruling that a Spanish shipwreck in US waters was not abandoned except by a specific statement of abandonment by its owner, even though the Treaty itself contains no such statement.

It strikes me that what the US Government apperas to be doing now is restating, for the purpose of the court, the meaning of the Treaty, extending it to International waters and to State-owned ships that were carrying personal property.

If this is the case, then I think that the court will act on the new interpretation of the meaning of the 1902 Treaty (Spain's arguments and the magistrate's preliminary recommendations already reflected this position, and this latest US Government statement demonstrates their agreement), and rule against Odyssey.

Personally, I don't think that the US Government should be acting in this way, but that's life, I guess.

Mariner

Mariner... That's why we have a Supreme Court. Justice Sotomayor has already stated in a previous case that, "treaties are not law."

“Even though Article IV of the Constitution says that treaties are the ‘supreme law of the land,’ in most instances they’re not even law,” she said.

That principle, she said, explained the outcome of a high-profile 2008 Supreme Court ruling, Medellin v. Texas, which involved an International Court of Justice ruling that some Mexican inmates on death row in Texas should get new sentencing hearings because the authorities failed to help them get help from the Mexican Consulate, contrary to a treaty the United States had ratified.

But the Supreme Court ruled that the international court’s decision had no legal force and that the treaty was not binding, because Congress never passed a statute explicitly making it domestic law.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/11/us/politics/11judge.html

Jeff,

Very interesting. Thanks for that.

Mariner

What will be, will be but it sounds to me like we all were seeing a matchgame that was really interesting till today, when suddenly somebody came and tell us the final score of the match. We can keep seeing the game but it's not the same. It looks to me like the final decision is already made.

Well, well, well.

Just when I thought that this case could not get any more bizarre than it already is.

Mariner

Very Interesting turn of events.
Ossy

Trinidad,

I don't think this is over, by a long chalk. As Jeff implies, this could well go all the way to the US Supreme Court, and I am not sure whether what the US Department of Defence is doing is constitutional. I don't think that a democratic Government can simply alter the law at will, especially if it also modifies a well-established international Treaty relating to events in international waters. It is one thing for Spain and the US to make rules covering their own waters, but the Convention on Salvage is clear in what constitutes a Sovereign vessel, and I don't think that the USA and Spain have a right to alter that unilaterally, much as it might suit them to do so.

Mariner

The spanish ministry of Culture just released a press communication to say thanks to US Gov. for the amicus curiae added to the legal issue about the Black Swan case. And Spain already sent the response to the last allegation of Odyssey in this case. Is not public at this very moment but it will be in hours or, as much, over the next days.

http://www.mcu.es/gabineteprensa/mo...ml=17542009nota.txt&language=es

Here's the translation.

The U.S. government supports the Spanish Government in the Case Odyssey
September 1, 2009

Spain claims the judge refers to the appeal by the U.S. company

The lawyer representing the Spanish government yesterday presented the case to court Odyssey Spain's response to allegations made by the company Odyssey Marine Exploration, Peru and elsewhere. The United States Government has also submitted to the U.S. court official position of the United States to support the interests of Spain: legal documentation prepared by the Department of Justice of the U.S. Government including the positions of the State Department and U.S. Navy .

The Ministry of Culture welcomes the support of the U.S. government because it represents the common interest of Spanish and U.S. governments of sovereign immunity to protect the wreck Nuestra Senora de las Mercedes, prevent illegal disruption of ships forming part of the national heritage of their respective countries, and respecting the place where the remains of those who died while serving their country.

The U.S. legal process requires that all parties were filed in the judicial process argue before Judge Steven Merryday the legitimacy of the decision taken last June by Judge Pizzo which recognized all the rights of Spain and the implementation of principle of state sovereign immunity on the Spanish shipwreck Nuestra Senora de la Mercedes.

Before the report and recommendation issued by Magistrate Pizzo, the Spanish government lawyer demonstrates and argues that this decision reflects a proper and careful analysis of evidence and legal principles which state that the wreck, the sailors, coins and other objects are protected from unlawful interference and commercial exploitation. Also acknowledges that courts in other countries should join the Spanish State in the protection of underwater cultural heritage for public benefit.

I'll post this here and on thread of Robert Marx because has to do with Marx and Odyssey. Simply disgusting. I've just read an interview to R. Marx on an spanish paper, ABC, and I haven't see something so disgusting in a lot of time. The journalist tries to make appears R. Marx as an angel who saw the light and now denies his past and insults our intelligence throwing trash over Odyssey. And Marx doesn't loose the opportunity and says things that coming from him are hard to read and believe. Whatever for a contract, a permission or, even, an applause from the spanish audience. Lets wait and we'll see Robert Marx doing, on the way he use to do, a kind of work for Spain that Odyssey had no the way to get. Finally, it's not about what you do but about the things you're able to do to do what you want to do. If things keep going this way, forums about underwater cultural heritage will be rated only for adults.

Here is the link (Jeff, I'm sorry, it's really long to translate):

http://www.abc.es/20090901/cultura-...ea-futuro-odyssey-200909011605.html

On these two links you can read, in english, the allegations of Spain:

http://www.abc.es/gestordocumental/...s/Cultura/ody_peru_spain_ultimo.pdf

http://www.abc.es/gestordocumental/uploads/Cultura/ody_spain_final.pdf

ABC/Marx translation...

http://tinyurl.com/m3vv3y

I'll post this here and on thread of Robert Marx because has to do with Marx and Odyssey. Simply disgusting. I've just read an interview to R. Marx on an Spanish paper, ABC, and I haven't see something so disgusting in a lot of time. The journalist tries to make appears R. Marx as an angel who saw the light and now denies his past and insults our intelligence throwing trash over Odyssey. And Marx doesn't loose the opportunity and says things that coming from him are hard to read and believe. Whatever for a contract, a permission or, even, an applause from the Spanish audience. Lets wait and we'll see Robert Marx doing, on the way he use to do, a kind of work for Spain that Odyssey had no the way to get. Finally, it's not about what you do but about the things you're able to do to do what you want to do. If things keep going this way, forums about underwater cultural heritage will be rated only for adults.

Here is the link (Jeff, I'm sorry, it's really long to translate):

http://www.abc.es/20090901/cultura-...ea-futuro-odyssey-200909011605.html

Hola  Trinidad ! You have me confused Sounds like you agree with what Odyssey did !
Ossy

Spain asks the US to return the treasure with out delay.
http://www.elpais.com/misc/herald/herald.pdf
Ossy

Ossy, I wont agree or disagree until I known exactly what did happen in all this story. And I don't give anything by known, I mean, after reading this ant that, reading the allegations from each part, I don't see Spain proving too many things. Spain probably will win this case but I'm not sure if it will be because the law is on his side or because politic and circumstances make it possible, and that makes me uncomfortable. I rather would like to see a good agreement for all parts involved or an epic legal battle before the Judge where all of us could learn something and see the truth broke up. Of course I want those artifacts as close to me as possible to be able of see them every so often. And I live in Spain, so I want the "treasure" here but it has nothing to do with the way of getting that stuff "back". I don't see pirates where other people do. And I don't see "sites destroyers" neither. I think that interested opinions make this company appears that way, but I can´t think of people acting that horrible way and, at the same time, documenting what they do, going to the judge and putting under the eye of the law the result of their "piratery". I'm spanish, I don't want our underwater cultural heritage destroyed by "treasurehunters", but being spaniard doesn't blind me. I like to known how and why all this mess happened and if there is a way of doing things right. And, yes, I could be a little upset if Spain signs an agreement with R. Marx, a man that I respect, but I respect R. Marx as much at least as I respect Odyssey. I don't understand seeing the same journalist throwing garbage all the time over Odyssey and glorifying R. Marx. I don't have anything against R. Marx, it is the journalist who makes me be suspicious on all this issue. I see all the time a lot of opinion in his articles and a lack of information or, even worse, the intention of confusing the readers and directing their opinion. It's just that. I will agree with the final legal decision but I'm sure that there is an encounter point for companies like Odyssey and Gov.s like Spain.  I think.

Spain asks the US to return the treasure with out delay.
http://www.elpais.com/misc/herald/herald.pdf
Ossy

OK, here you go, it's returned to where it came from or maybe not so near where it came from. You look for it and
find it and retrieve it like we did.


Jay

Spain asks the US to return the treasure with out delay.
http://www.elpais.com/misc/herald/herald.pdf
Ossy

OK, here you go, it's returned to where it came from or maybe not so near where it came from. You look for it and
find it and retrieve it like we did.


Jay

Should strap it to some TNT, then blow it up over the area you got to do it right !
Ossy

Saturna,

Well, it's not as if Spain asked Odyssey to remove the coins. The issue only arrises because Odyssey removed all 500,000 coins and not just enough to identify the wreck.

It is not the way it will happen, as the coins are under the control of the Court that Odyssey chose to approach for custody, but I doubt that possession of the coins is top of Spain's list of priorities.

Mariner

[Some numbers about the treasure of the "Mercedes" ??]

Some numbers about the treasure of the "Mercedes" ?? 

The value of a currency of 8 reales is € 100. So, 600,000 currencies give us € 60 millions or $78 millions, which are very far from those declared 500 million dollars. Why? Jeff surely knows it!! 
 
http://www.filatelialopez.com/catal...;keywords=8+reales&x=6&y=13

http://www.hoy.es/20090902/sociedad...io-esta-sobrevalorado-20090902.html
The treasure is overvalued.  This article it was published yesterday by declarations of Robert Marx.   
Little by little we do come closer to the truth?

Vox, that article is far from the truth. First of all it claims that Odyssey found the Atocha. What planet do you live on? Odyssey had NOTHING to do with the Atocha. Second, he says the silver coins Odyssey found are worth $10 each.  His words are worthless!

Here is the article in english:
     Robert Marx, a world expert on underwater archaeological sites that have participated in more than 3,500 scans, has been the specialist who advised over 20 years Odyssey Marine Explorer. Marx argues that the U.S. company lied about the possible value of the cargo recovered from the Atlantic to fraudulently enrich themselves on the stock exchange, as it did with other Odyssey Spanish galleon, the 'Atocha'.
In his opinion, not plundered the cargo worth more than $ 10 million because, he says, "there is hardly any gold coins, barely reaching 200. As for the 594,000 silver coins, Odyssey has spread the news that could be worth between 1,000 and $ 2,000 each, an absolute falsehood. In the market would not exceed $ 10 per unit.

I have never read a line from Odyssey giving a value of the cargo from the Black Swan. Can anybody tell me where I can find an information like that coming directly from Odyssey?

Vox, that article is far from the truth. First of all it claims that Odyssey found the Atocha. What planet do you live on? Odyssey had NOTHING to do with the Atocha. Second, he says the silver coins Odyssey found are worth $10 each.  His words are worthless!

Salvor, I said that "maybe" we are near the truth, I didn't say that we end up knowing it!!

I have never read a line from Odyssey giving a value of the cargo from the Black Swan. Can anybody tell me where I can find an information like that coming directly from Odyssey?

Trini, they have never denied it after two years!! Why??

[1. It has been widely reported that this shipwreck could be worth up to $500 million. What is the Company's position on this?]

Here's Odyssey's position on the value of the coins. As usual, Claudio does not know what he's talking about.

1. It has been widely reported that this shipwreck could be worth up to $500 million. What is the Company's position on this?

The Company has not estimated the total potential value of the shipwreck, other than to estimate on a preliminary basis a wide range of potential retail prices based on the coins that have been conserved to date.

What we know is that we have recovered over 500,000 silver coins weighing over 17 tons, along with some gold coins and other artifacts. After conservation of the first 6,000 coins, we requested that a numismatist and one of the world's most experienced coin marketers, Nick Bruyer, inspect the coins and provide an opinion of the retail pricing that we could expect from the collection.

Based on Mr. Bruyer's opinion, Odyssey reported that we expected the retail pricing of the silver coins to range from several hundred to four thousand dollars per coin. This wide range of prices would depend on the condition, origin and date of the individual coins. We understand that in a separate interview with a reporter, Mr. Bruyer provided his opinion that the mean retail price of the coins could be approximately $1,000 based on the small sample of coins that he inspected. This was reported as a potential $500 million retail value for the coins, which explains where that figure originated.

Odyssey's position is that until all the coins are conserved, documented and graded, it is impossible to know what the entire collection would bring at retail. Based on the coins that have been conserved to date and that he has been able to inspect, we are comfortable with Mr. Bruyer's opinion that coins from the "Black Swan" will bring from several hundred to four thousand dollars per coin retail. These are estimates that could change significantly when the rest of the coins are conserved and do not include the cost of marketing and sales, so actual revenue to Odyssey would be much lower than retail sales prices.

http://shipwreck.net/pr135.php

[1. It has been widely reported that this shipwreck could be worth up to $500 million. What is the Company's position on this?]

Here's Odyssey's position on the value of the coins. As usual, Claudio does not know what he's talking about.

1. It has been widely reported that this shipwreck could be worth up to $500 million. What is the Company's position on this?

The Company has not estimated the total potential value of the shipwreck, other than to estimate on a preliminary basis a wide range of potential retail prices based on the coins that have been conserved to date.

What we know is that we have recovered over 500,000 silver coins weighing over 17 tons, along with some gold coins and other artifacts. After conservation of the first 6,000 coins, we requested that a numismatist and one of the world's most experienced coin marketers, Nick Bruyer, inspect the coins and provide an opinion of the retail pricing that we could expect from the collection.

Based on Mr. Bruyer's opinion, Odyssey reported that we expected the retail pricing of the silver coins to range from several hundred to four thousand dollars per coin. This wide range of prices would depend on the condition, origin and date of the individual coins. We understand that in a separate interview with a reporter, Mr. Bruyer provided his opinion that the mean retail price of the coins could be approximately $1,000 based on the small sample of coins that he inspected. This was reported as a potential $500 million retail value for the coins, which explains where that figure originated.

Odyssey's position is that until all the coins are conserved, documented and graded, it is impossible to know what the entire collection would bring at retail. Based on the coins that have been conserved to date and that he has been able to inspect, we are comfortable with Mr. Bruyer's opinion that coins from the "Black Swan" will bring from several hundred to four thousand dollars per coin retail. These are estimates that could change significantly when the rest of the coins are conserved and do not include the cost of marketing and sales, so actual revenue to Odyssey would be much lower than retail sales prices.

http://shipwreck.net/pr135.php

This text is very ambiguous, if but not, it can be but it is not, etc. etc. Not very consistent  if compared with the thousands of times that it is affirmed in the media to be the value 500 millions. 
To be a not very informed person (according to your irrelevant opinion) it is matter to meditate seriously the fact that my information has been used by Odyssey  and for the Spanish police (Guardia Civil) in the court of Tampa. Strange but true.

May 18, 2007.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0518072ship1.html

Vox Veritas, I think I missed something in your message. I have understood that you say that 500$ millions is the value of the "treasure" because everybody says that and Odyssey didn't deny it, but I'm sure you didn't say that. In serious, where any of you have read an exact valuation of the treasure done by somebody in Odyssey? Or from a Ministry in Spain? I went to Google and I just find journalistic estimations repeated again and again and that look more sensationalist than accurates.

[1. It has been widely reported that this shipwreck could be worth up to $500 million. What is the Company's position on this?]

Here's Odyssey's position on the value of the coins. As usual, Claudio does not know what he's talking about.

1. It has been widely reported that this shipwreck could be worth up to $500 million. What is the Company's position on this?

The Company has not estimated the total potential value of the shipwreck, other than to estimate on a preliminary basis a wide range of potential retail prices based on the coins that have been conserved to date.

What we know is that we have recovered over 500,000 silver coins weighing over 17 tons, along with some gold coins and other artifacts. After conservation of the first 6,000 coins, we requested that a numismatist and one of the world's most experienced coin marketers, Nick Bruyer, inspect the coins and provide an opinion of the retail pricing that we could expect from the collection.

Based on Mr. Bruyer's opinion, Odyssey reported that we expected the retail pricing of the silver coins to range from several hundred to four thousand dollars per coin. This wide range of prices would depend on the condition, origin and date of the individual coins. We understand that in a separate interview with a reporter, Mr. Bruyer provided his opinion that the mean retail price of the coins could be approximately $1,000 based on the small sample of coins that he inspected. This was reported as a potential $500 million retail value for the coins, which explains where that figure originated.

Odyssey's position is that until all the coins are conserved, documented and graded, it is impossible to know what the entire collection would bring at retail. Based on the coins that have been conserved to date and that he has been able to inspect, we are comfortable with Mr. Bruyer's opinion that coins from the "Black Swan" will bring from several hundred to four thousand dollars per coin retail. These are estimates that could change significantly when the rest of the coins are conserved and do not include the cost of marketing and sales, so actual revenue to Odyssey would be much lower than retail sales prices.

http://shipwreck.net/pr135.php

Jeff, 500.000 x 1.000 = 500 millions. Greg Stemm told on May 18, 2007 
 
Link: 
 
http://www.gibfocus.gi/details_headlines.php?id=1316

Sorry but my english is really bad today. I´ve visited that web and what I read is the plaintiff´s motion for other shipwreck diferent of the Black Swan. Neither the area nor the deep of the site fix with the Black Swan remains. Excuse me but I dont see where you´re trying to go.

[1. E 'stato ampiamente riportato che il naufragio potrebbe valere fino a $ 500 milioni. Qual è la posizione della Società su questo?]

Claudio... Maybe this will help.   

1. E 'stato ampiamente riportato che il naufragio potrebbe valere fino a $ 500 milioni. Qual è la posizione della Società su questo?

La Società non ha stimato il valore complessivo potenziale del naufragio, ad eccezione di stimare in via preliminare una vasta gamma di potenziali prezzi al dettaglio sulla base delle monete che sono stati conservati fino ad oggi.

Quello che sappiamo è che abbiamo recuperato oltre 500.000 monete d'argento di peso superiore a 17 tonnellate, insieme ad alcune monete d'oro e di altri manufatti. Dopo la conservazione delle prime 6.000 monete, abbiamo chiesto che un numismatico e uno dei marketer del mondo della moneta più esperti, Nick Bruyer, ispezionare le monete e di fornire un parere sulla fissazione dei prezzi al dettaglio che ci si poteva aspettare dalla collezione.

Basato su parere Mr. Bruyer, la Odyssey ha riferito che ci aspettavamo il prezzo al dettaglio delle monete d'argento di varia da alcune centinaia a quattromila dollari per ogni gettone. Questa vasta gamma di prezzi che dipendono dalla condizione, l'origine e la data dei singoli pezzi. Siamo consapevoli che in un intervista con un giornalista, il signor Bruyer ha fornito la sua opinione che il prezzo medio al dettaglio delle monete potrebbe essere di circa 1.000 dollari sulla base del piccolo campione di monete che ha ispezionato. Questo è stato segnalato come un potenziale di 500 milioni dollari di valore al dettaglio per le monete, che spiega come e dove quella cifra origine.
 
Posizione di Odyssey è che fino a che tutte le monete sono conservati, documentati e classificati, è impossibile sapere cosa l'intera collezione avrebbe portato al dettaglio. Basata sulle monete che sono stati conservati fino ad oggi e che egli è stato in grado di controllare, ci sono confortevoli, con l'opinione del signor Bruyer che le monete da Swan "Black" porterà da diverse centinaia a quattromila dollari per ogni gettone di vendita al dettaglio. Si tratta di stime che potrebbe cambiare in modo significativo quando il resto delle monete sono conservate e non includono i costi di marketing e vendite, i ricavi in modo effettivo Odyssey sarebbe molto inferiore a quello dei prezzi di vendita al dettaglio.

[Odyssey's Latest Shipwreck Find Yields over 500,000 Silver and Gold Coins]

Here's what Odyssey reported when they announced the discovery. They never put a value on the coins at any time. Anybody that says otherwise is a liar.

Odyssey's Latest Shipwreck Find Yields over 500,000 Silver and Gold Coins
Friday May 18, 2007, 9:15 am ET

World's Largest Historical Shipwreck Coin Recovery Produces Record 17 Tons of Silver Currency

TAMPA, Fla.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Odyssey Marine Exploration (AMEX:OMR - News), the world's leader in the field of deep-ocean shipwreck exploration announced today that it has completed the pre-disturbance archaeological survey and preliminary excavation of a Colonial period shipwreck site code-named "Black Swan" in an undisclosed location in the Atlantic Ocean.

The artifacts recovered from the site include over 500,000 silver coins weighing more than 17 tons, hundreds of gold coins, worked gold, and other artifacts. All recovered items have been legally imported into the Unites States and placed in a secure, undisclosed location where they are undergoing conservation and documentation.

It is believed that this recovery constitutes the largest collection of coins ever excavated from a historical shipwreck site. They were recovered in conformity with Salvage Law and the Law of the Sea Convention, beyond the territorial waters or legal jurisdiction of any country. The Company does not believe that the recovery is subject to sovereign immunity by any nation pursuant to the Law of the Sea Convention.

The work accomplished to date on this site has diligently followed archaeological protocols using advanced robotic technology, and the artifacts are now undergoing a meticulous conservation process by some of the world's most experienced coin conservators.

The Company is not prepared to disclose the possible identity of the shipwreck at this time, and may only do so after thoroughly examining the artifacts, analyzing the research and proving the identity, if possible, of the shipwreck.

"Our research suggests that there were a number of Colonial period shipwrecks that were lost in the area where this site is located, so we are being very cautious about speculating as to the possible identity of the shipwreck," said John Morris, Odyssey Co-founder and CEO. "Nevertheless, we have treated this site with kid gloves and the archaeological work done by our team out there is unsurpassed. We are thoroughly documenting and recording the site, which we believe will have immense historical significance."

"The remarkable condition of most of the first 6,000 silver coins conserved has been a pleasant surprise, and the gold coins are almost all dazzling mint state specimens," said Greg Stemm, Odyssey's Co-founder. "We are excited by the wide range of dates, origins and varieties of the coins, and we believe that the collecting community will be thrilled when they see the quality and diversity of the collection."

The excavation of this site follows Odyssey's successful excavation of the SS Republic®, a shipwreck lost in 1865 off the US coast. The deep ocean robotic archaeological excavation of that site produced approximately 65,000 artifacts, including over 50,000 coins with a retail value of over $75 million.

The company is continuing operations on several other projects with its ships and ROV systems, and is currently awaiting the appointment of Spanish archaeologists following an arrangement with the Spanish Government and the Junta of Andalucia prior to resuming operations on the Sussex project pursuant to an agreement with the UK Government.

For security reasons, as with the "Black Swan" project, the company may only announce the results of the other current projects after completion of the excavations or delivery of the artifacts to a safe location.

[1. E 'stato ampiamente riportato che il naufragio potrebbe valere fino a $ 500 milioni. Qual è la posizione della Società su questo?]

Claudio... Maybe this will help.   

1. E 'stato ampiamente riportato che il naufragio potrebbe valere fino a $ 500 milioni. Qual è la posizione della Società su questo?

La Società non ha stimato il valore complessivo potenziale del naufragio, ad eccezione di stimare in via preliminare una vasta gamma di potenziali prezzi al dettaglio sulla base delle monete che sono stati conservati fino ad oggi.

Quello che sappiamo è che abbiamo recuperato oltre 500.000 monete d'argento di peso superiore a 17 tonnellate, insieme ad alcune monete d'oro e di altri manufatti. Dopo la conservazione delle prime 6.000 monete, abbiamo chiesto che un numismatico e uno dei marketer del mondo della moneta più esperti, Nick Bruyer, ispezionare le monete e di fornire un parere sulla fissazione dei prezzi al dettaglio che ci si poteva aspettare dalla collezione.

Basato su parere Mr. Bruyer, la Odyssey ha riferito che ci aspettavamo il prezzo al dettaglio delle monete d'argento di varia da alcune centinaia a quattromila dollari per ogni gettone. Questa vasta gamma di prezzi che dipendono dalla condizione, l'origine e la data dei singoli pezzi. Siamo consapevoli che in un intervista con un giornalista, il signor Bruyer ha fornito la sua opinione che il prezzo medio al dettaglio delle monete potrebbe essere di circa 1.000 dollari sulla base del piccolo campione di monete che ha ispezionato. Questo è stato segnalato come un potenziale di 500 milioni dollari di valore al dettaglio per le monete, che spiega come e dove quella cifra origine.
 
Posizione di Odyssey è che fino a che tutte le monete sono conservati, documentati e classificati, è impossibile sapere cosa l'intera collezione avrebbe portato al dettaglio. Basata sulle monete che sono stati conservati fino ad oggi e che egli è stato in grado di controllare, ci sono confortevoli, con l'opinione del signor Bruyer che le monete da Swan "Black" porterà da diverse centinaia a quattromila dollari per ogni gettone di vendita al dettaglio. Si tratta di stime che potrebbe cambiare in modo significativo quando il resto delle monete sono conservate e non includono i costi di marketing e vendite, i ricavi in modo effettivo Odyssey sarebbe molto inferiore a quello dei prezzi di vendita al dettaglio.

Source please.

Well, I think there is a documented source of the value of the "treasure" that comes directly from Odyssey: the Gibraltar papers that Odyssey had to fulfill to take the coins and all to the US. On theses papers Odyssey give a "tax value" of the cargo: four millions dollars, far away of the 500 millions of dollars continuously repeated for the press.

trinidad, where have you been the last two years? Amigo i have it coming out of Greg Stemn own mouth !!
remember Treasure Quest ( Discovery channel ) I can send you a copy if you like !
He clearly talks up the value of each coin being more than $1000.00 us each  
trinidad do you have Odyssey shares?
Ossy
Sorry Jeff, I can send you a copy as well !

trinidad, where have you been the last two years? Amigo i have it coming out of Greg Stemn own mouth !!
remember Treasure Quest ( Discovery channel ) I can send you a copy if you like !
He clearly talks up the value of each coin being more than $1000.00 us each  
trinidad do you have Odyssey shares?
Ossy
Sorry Jeff, I can send you a copy as well !

I guess you're referring to the Black Swan episode where Greg says, "If these coins are worth a thousand dollars each, then that's a million dollar bucket." I wouldn't exactly say that's a statement of fact, or a company valuation of the coins. That episode was shown almost two years after they found the Black Swan.

Hi Jeff, Odyssey keep telling us they are the world leader in this field, Greg is the CEO. He makes the statement !
It's funny how now that Odyssey are losing their grip on the Black Swan " we never put a price on it "
I have always said it was never worth $500,000, All the Hype was to get the stock share prices up, It was always very clear !
I wish Odyssey well with their new finds. this has been a learning curve for all.
Ossy

Odyssey's stock has dropped by 65% in the last year, most of the fall coming in the last three months. It strikes me that the significance of the recent comments by the US Government has not yet reached most of the shareholders, so I would not be surprised to see further falls in the next month or so.

Mariner

Odyssey's stock has dropped by 65% in the last year, most of the fall coming in the last three months. It strikes me that the significance of the recent comments by the US Government has not yet reached most of the shareholders, so I would not be surprised to see further falls in the next month or so.

Mariner

Most stocks across the globe have had considerable drops in value during the last year. Sounds like an opportunity to BUY this and many other stocks.

WD1715,

The Dow Jones average is actually about the same level as it was in October 2008. In that same period Odyssey's stock has fallen by 65%.

Of course the economy has had a traumatic time all round, though on average there has been something of a recovery in stock prices in the last six months. Given Odyssey's range of projects, and the fact that they might yet get something out of the Black Swan, it might well be a good time to buy OMEX. Certainly a bad time to sell if you bought the stock a year ago.

Best wishes,

Mariner

Mariner... The stock dropped over $2 per share when Judge Pizzo filed his recommendation. We should be hearing something about the HMS Victory by the end of the month. A court filing on the status of the negotiation between Odyssey and the Brits is due by Sept 29th. I see no reason why it won't be positive news for Odyssey. If so, the stock should rebound.

Jeff,

I hope it does, for the sake of the shareholders.

Mariner

Ha, ha, ha Ossy!  :laughing7:Not, I´m not a stockholder (of OME or anything. I´m pretty poor). And I didnt see that TV show. That must be the reason because I didnt find an statement like we were talking about. Anyway, I meant an official statement or something like that (from Stemm or from his Public Relation office) and I´m looking for it before these last months.

Trinidad,
Jeffs right.  You won't find an official statement from Odyssey or Greg Stemm, putting a value on the coins, other than what was put on the export / import documents when they were orignally transported.  They (Odyssey) are well aware of the laws with regard to the SEC and would never jeopardized themselves in that regard.  All the numbers you see are based on a few coins that were conserved, a coin experts opinion and media speculation, combined.  It's a much sexier story when you put a value on it -- from the media's perspective.  But even some media are careful not to put out false infomation.  That's how you can determine the credibility of a news organization.  You have to look for words that change the context of a sentence.  If you having difficulty translating the English to Spanish -- these little words might get lost in translation -- no disrespect.     

Trinidad,
Jeffs right.  You won't find an official statement from Odyssey or Greg Stemm, putting a value on the coins, other than what was put on the export / import documents when they were orignally transported.  They (Odyssey) are well aware of the laws with regard to the SEC and would never jeopardized themselves in that regard.  All the numbers you see are based on a few coins that were conserved, a coin experts opinion and media speculation, combined.  It's a much sexier story when you put a value on it -- from the media's perspective.  But even some media are careful not to put out false infomation.  That's how you can determine the credibility of a news organization.  You have to look for words that change the context of a sentence.  If you having difficulty translating the English to Spanish -- these little words might get lost in translation -- no disrespect.     

Yes, but not to have denied it with emphasis and forcefulness, undoubtedly it has favored them. Yes or not ??

Well, Vox...I don't know...you could be right but... It sounds to me as if I say "If my grand mother would have handlerbars and two wheels she would be a bike". Yes, she would be but, as example, it's kind of forced ("denied it with emphasis and forcefulness, undoubtedly..."). Isn't it?

500k coins is going to be worth alot, no matter how you slice it.  Look at the previous market for shipwreck coins and what they sell for.  The are not going to sell for $50 each.  They hired an outside expert to approximate the value of the small % of coins that they conserved -- and he (the coin expert) gave an opinion.  The media took their calculators and did quick math and the story made the headlines with a total value$$.  Is it actually worth that?  Who knows? You are entitled to dispute it, but you should understand that Odyssey did NOT put the 500 million number out there.  And 'Yes' they were entitled to say they found 'handle bars, two wheels and a seat' -- even if it conclusively looks like a bike.       

http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/2511457/

I think it is important to point out that laws protecting war ships were written in a manner to also protect private wealth. 
If the Mercedes was carrying private citizens money, then she did not deliver her commercial obligation. 
If Spain made no attempt to find her and did not make retribution to the private parties, aren't the ancestors entitled to agree to private salvage?

PDJ, my joke about the bike and my grand mother was to Vox Veritas. I wanted to say that Vox push to much to justify his point of view about the responsability of Odyssey in the valuation of 500$ millions: basically I've understood on the last post of Vox Veritas that if somebody call me stupid and I don't loose my time denying something like that (because I don't believe it is true or because whatever), the result is that I'm positively stupid because I didn't deny it. At college we called that sophism, an easy and phony way to win a debate among inexperienced students .

PDJ, my joke about the bike and my grand mother was to Vox Veritas. I wanted to say that Vox push to much to justify his point of view about the responsability of Odyssey in the valuation of 500$ millions: basically I've understood on the last post of Vox Veritas that if somebody call me stupid and I don't loose my time denying something like that (because I don't believe it is true or because whatever), the result is that I'm positively stupid because I didn't deny it. At college we called that sophism, an easy and phony way to win a debate among inexperienced students .

Trini, a public company has to be more transparent than the water. 
To clarify the doubts is a duty.   
 

I think it is important to point out that laws protecting war ships were written in a manner to also protect private wealth. 

PDJ,

Can you demonstrate this with an example or two? It doesn't seem obvious to me.

Mariner

Mariner,
I will do my best.  
My understanding is based on arguements put forth in Odyssey's most recent filing and is expressed as I stated -- my understanding:
Historical documents show the Mercedes was serving as a commercial trasport vessel for the maritime mail service.
173 receipts for cargo shipments were signed by a civilian 'silver master' showing roughly 75% were private commercial property.
25 claims filed by private individuals.
Paying passengers.
Section 1609 of FSIA -- None of the res is protected because int'l agreements do not extend to vessels engaged in comercial activity.
Only sovereignty would apply to vessels' that are on 'non-commercial' service when they sunk.
In the 1902 Treaty -- Sovereignty applies to Sunken warships, naval auxilary or other vessels owned by governments on military, non-commercial service.
Personally, I havn't seen the historical documents, the 173 receipts, the 25 claims, read the FSIA, etc -- but rather based my assumptions on the belief that these are represented as 'facts' by Odyssey.
I am also not aware of any retribution paid by Spain to private parties for the commercial cargo lost (or an insurance policy) that may effectively trasfer ownership.  Even if there was retribution, I'm not sure how their claim to commercial cargo would play out with regard to salvage law since it was originally private commercial cargo.
I beleive Odyssey has a valid claim that deserves to be heard in a trial case with a jury.
You may disagree -- It is what I beleive.  
See the link below for the info I wrote above:  
http://www.shipwreck.net/pdf/dkt230OdysseyObjectionstoRandR_000.pdf

Article X of the Friendship Treaty does include "individuals."

ARTICLE X

In cases of shipwreck, damages at sea, or forced putting in, each party shall afford to the vessels of the other, whether belonging to the State or to individuals, the same assistance and protection and the same immunities which would have been granted to its own vessels in similar cases.

P.S. Spain never paid any retribution.

I started this post below under shipwrecks.  Please take a look.
Maybe it belongs here:   

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,269712.0.html

I am appalled at the rationale some within our court system are leaning   

However, I personally have been a surviving victim of a negative magistrate
report and recommendation in an Admiralty Action.  The actual Judge reversed
the negative Magistrate's ruling in my case but much time passed and damage
was done   :   

If those of you who are following this case believe it belongs here let me know

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,269712.0.html

PDJ,

I happen to agree that the Mercedes should not be regarded as a Sovereign vessel, because of the commercial nature of some of its payload, and I do not agree with either the magistrates recommendations nor the recent US Government intervention. I am very critical of the way Odyssey lifted all the coins, rather than a sample, but that they brought on their own problems as a result. However, my question was whether the laws written to protect warships were also designed to protect private wealth, as you had asserted.

As Jeff has pointed out, the 1902 Treaty covers both State-owned and privately-owned wrecks, but I don't think it was designed primarily to protect warships. In fact, I am not aware of any laws designed to protect warships that also provide for the protection of private wealth on those ships. Instead, they actually sacrifice both the warship and the private wealth by making both open to salvage claims, or they had until now.

Mariner

Capt. Dom... That's very interesting. Can you post the case number, or PM it to me? I'll check with Odyssey to see if they're aware of your case. If not, they may be able to use it.

Update: I found the case on Pacer, and sent it to Odyssey.

Whoops!
I posted this in the wrong place...

This question is a lot bigger than whether or not Odyssey is getting screwed or not....

After being in the biz.... for some time they know exactly what is going on and are not stupid.
If you follow the stock swings and blocks of stock sold - and options flipped, you will see the
principals are not exactly suffering too much over the extended protraction - while these issues
are being pondered.... 

The genuine issue we should all be concerned with is are their attorneys making the best case
they can make or are they too just along for the ride....   I agree with the above posting and
have some faith that in the end - the smoke may br finally blown away... by our Judicial System.

From a cultural resource issue - or even a "war grave" issue the bottom line here is that there
really isn't anything left of most of these shipwrecks to actually study - from an archeological stand point.

It is all "smoke and mirrors".   The ship blew up....    Its gone....  The crabs carried off most
of the bones that may have made it to the bottom.  Various other marine creatures and birds, that
have long since gone ate everyone else - if they didn't just dissolve from floating about as
bloated corpses.

Both sides are guilty of playing an archeological card that is empty handed.   These projects are
anthropological events.   The public interest they generate are their real treasure.   more money
is going to be made in the peaks and valleys of OMEX stock than ever will be made in the marketing
of 500,000 coins that pretty much all look alike.   

It is just a down right shame projects like this end up serving other agendas - especially of the
true 21st century pirates - Goules that are called attorneys - and even worse - public employees who
don't really give a crap about serving the public trust....     

Congressional Letter...

www.treasurelore.com/charts/Congressional_Letter.pdf

Actually, I am proud that SOMEBODY in Washington  is concerned, but shocked that they would put it on paper.  Like I said B4, Goold will disappear when Hillary disappears.  OMX only needs to keep things in court for 3 years more (maybe less, depending upon other more serious circumstances).

If i mount a cannon on the deck of my private 40 foot striker sportfish.Is it now a warship?

Any comment about the two last responses of Odyssey at the Tampa court?

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federa...da/flmdce/8:2007cv00614/197978/240/

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federa...da/flmdce/8:2007cv00614/197978/241/

If i mount a cannon on the deck of my private 40 foot striker sportfish.Is it now a warship?

Fisheye... Actually, no guns are necessary to be classified as a warship. Any govt. owned ship that's at risk of being a "target" from an unfriendly force is classified as a warship. A US Navy hydrographic or salvage vessel would fall under this category. I just found that out a few days ago myself.

What about the cargo ships that are targeted by Somali pirates?

Trinidad,

Am I missing something here? It looks to me as if those two documents are identical.

By the way, I agree with the arguments put forward by Odyssey. I don't think that the US Government has any standing in this case.

Mariner

No Mariner, you didn't missed anything. It must be a mistake because yes, they two identical documents.

Tampa Tribune Article...

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/se...s-odyssey-find-all-sunken-treasure/

Odyssey Court Motion...

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federa...mdce/8:2007cv00614/197978/242/0.pdf

Firm asks court to reject U.S. brief in Spain treasure fight...

http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/2524546/

Coins in iron chests or even close to iron in saltwater will fuse together. What a joke, the Spanish claiming it is theres when they stole it from the natives of South America. Once again the RATS come out of the woodwork when there is found money. Heck if they want to find there lost ill gotten treasure you think they would have searched for it. To bad our government doesn't have the balls to unblock the Odysee by blowing the Spanish vessels out of the water. 

I love how Spain comes out of the woodworks laying their claim on their ill-gotten goods.  The way I look at it, Odyssey Marine has a couple viable options.  The first is to continue fighting Spain's claim.  If things do not go in their favor, the 2nd option is to do a 2-3 mile or more dumping of the coins around the general area of the wreck location simulating the debris field of a wreck.  Let Spain then spend their own dime to recover the loot from the "grave" of their sailors as they put it.  If Spain can claim warships from an entirely different government 200 years previously, I do not see how Peru or even Ecuador cannot claim their fair share of the loot being the gold originated there and was minted in Lima.  I love how greed drives the governments, including our own, to lay claim to the spoils of other peoples' hard work. 

COULDN'T OF SAID IT ANY BETTER. LIKE THE OLD SAYING GOES "LOOSE LIPS SINK SHIPS"

Another option for Odyssey is to move the coins (and their head office) to a less 'treasure hostile' host, possibly the Cayman Islands or some such. If their ships are registered outside the USA anyway, why not....

Perpetual Title to Sovereign Wrecks...

http://tinyurl.com/knu9ar

Saturna, Odyssey can't move the coins. They are locked up in Federal custody in an Orlando warehouse. What Odyssey should do is move their corporate headquarters to Equador or Peru. Those countries don't recognize Spains claims of soverignity and they salvage Spanish warships every day with no complaint from Spain.

Saturna, Odyssey can't move the coins. They are locked up in Federal custody in an Orlando warehouse. What Odyssey should do is move their corporate headquarters to Equador or Peru. Those countries don't recognize Spains claims of soverignity and they salvage Spanish warships every day with no complaint from Spain.

Good Idea Salvor6, Just as long as Peru can keep the lot ! We wouldn't want you guys dealing in stolen goods !
Ossy

Coins in iron chests or even close to iron in saltwater will fuse together. What a joke, the Spanish claiming it is theres when they stole it from the natives of South America. Once again the RATS come out of the woodwork when there is found money. Heck if they want to find there lost ill gotten treasure you think they would have searched for it. To bad our government doesn't have the balls to unblock the Odysee by blowing the Spanish vessels out of the water. 

Getting boring,same old.
I would love to see some one here post, that they have returned treasure they have found to, as you say " Right full owner"
one word Hypocrites !
Ossy

Just not to the Spanish since they are the real theives............................

Coins in iron chests or even close to iron in saltwater will fuse together. What a joke, the Spanish claiming it is theres when they stole it from the natives of South America. Once again the RATS come out of the woodwork when there is found money. Heck if they want to find there lost ill gotten treasure you think they would have searched for it. To bad our government doesn't have the balls to unblock the Odysee by blowing the Spanish vessels out of the water. 

Getting boring,same old.
I would love to see some one here post, that they have returned treasure they have found to, as you say " Right full owner"
one word Hypocrites !
Ossy

Coins in iron chests or even close to iron in saltwater will fuse together. What a joke, the Spanish claiming it is theres when they stole it from the natives of South America. Once again the RATS come out of the woodwork when there is found money. Heck if they want to find there lost ill gotten treasure you think they would have searched for it. To bad our government doesn't have the balls to unblock the Odysee by blowing the Spanish vessels out of the water. 

Getting boring,same old.

Or Spain gives up trying to sue treasure salvors and lets them keep whatever they find wherever.No news is good news.

You are still side stepping your argument, that the bad ass Spaniards stole it first, but it's OK for you to keep it
There's nothing wrong in being a Treasure hunter, good luck to you, Live the dream
But don't use Spain as an excuse !!
Ossy

Hey Ossey, Joel Ruth is living the dream. He is salvaging Spanish warships in Equador and Spain does not complain one bit!

Odyssey Reaches Agreement with UK Government on Dismissal of Admiralty Arrest and Salvage Award for Cannon from HMS Victory
Press Release
Source: Odyssey Marine Exploration, Inc.
On Friday September 18, 2009, 9:15 am EDT
   
TAMPA, Fla.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Odyssey Marine Exploration, Inc. (Nasdaq:OMEX - News), pursuant to an agreement reached with the UK Government, has filed a motion to dismiss and vacate the warrant for the arrest which was filed in the U.S. District Court on Admiral Balchin’s HMS Victory, a 100 gun ship of the line lost in 1744 in the English Channel (case number 8:08-cv-1045).

The UK Government has agreed to pay Odyssey a salvage award of 80% as compensation for the artifacts which have been recovered from the site and submitted to the UK Receiver of Wreck. A valuation of approximately $200,000 has been agreed for the two cannon recovered from the site, providing for a salvage award of approximately $160,000. The company will also be participating in the ongoing process of consultation to determine the approaches that should be adopted towards the wreck.

In 2008, in cooperation with the UK Ministry of Defence (MOD), Odyssey conducted an extensive archaeological pre-disturbance survey and recovered a 42 pdr and 12 pdr bronze cannon from the site. At the direction of the MOD, Odyssey presented the cannon to the UK Receiver of Wreck, and has been actively involved in their conservation and study.

“We look forward to cooperating with the MOD and other stakeholders in the archaeological management and preservation of Admiral Balchin’s HMS Victory,” commented Odyssey CEO, Greg Stemm from London, where he has spent the week meeting with UK officials. “I am pleased to announce that we have offered to forego part of our salvage award as a contribution of $75,000 to provide support to the National Museum of the Royal Navy to assist in realizing the historical, educational and cultural opportunities that the discovery of this important shipwreck offers to the public.”

“We’re thrilled that we’ve been able to return two cannon from Balchin’s Victory to the citizens of the United Kingdom, but these are just a small portion of the irreplaceable cultural artifacts that remain at the site,” Stemm continued. “We look forward to working with the UK Government and the archaeological community to help develop a strategy to protect this very significant cultural and naval heritage asset.”

“As the shipwreck has been positively identified as HMS Victory, a UK Royal Naval Vessel, we recognize the UK Government’s position is that the vessel has not been abandoned and therefore the shipwrecked vessel, its appurtenances and necessaries, and the personal effects of the officers and crew, are the property of Her Majesty’s Government,” commented Melinda MacConnel, Odyssey Vice President and General Counsel. “As such, in good faith, we have agreed to conduct any further activities relating to the shipwreck under the jurisdiction of applicable UK laws.”

About HMS Victory

HMS Victory was lost in 1744 under the command of Admiral Sir John Balchin. The direct predecessor and inspiration behind Nelson's flagship, Balchin's Victory was the mightiest and most technically advanced vessel of her age. She was lost during a storm with all hands and was the last Royal Navy warship to be lost at sea with a complete complement of bronze cannon. Two of the greatest admirals in English history, Sir John Norris and Sir John Balchin called her their flagship.

British Press...

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/4637608.HMS_Victory_s_future_secured/

As you all know, I am not Odyssey's No. 1 fan, but I tip my hat to them for the way they have handled this particular project.

Mariner

Also nice when the country they're dealing with is reasonable and doesn't except everything for nothing.  

And it looks incomparable chipper to get an agreement than going to a trial. How many cannons and historical stuff could Spain save, keep and show in a museum with the money that James Goold and his team are going to get from the spanish Gov? As my grand mother says: Mo´ better a bad agreement than a good trial. It looks like she is definitively right.

AP Article...

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/se...uk-reach-shipwreck-deal/news-money/

Judge Merryday Strikes DOJ Amicus Brief...

O R D E R
Pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 517, the United States moves (Doc. 239) for
“Authorization to File Statement of Interest and Amicus Curiae Brief in Support of
Kingdom of Spain.” The plaintiff responds (Doc. 240) in opposition and alternatively
moves unopposed for leave to respond to the “Statement of Interest.”

The United States’ unauthorized motion is untimely and fails to comply with Local
Rule 3.01, which states that a motion requesting leave to submit a further memorandum
“shall not exceed three (3) pages, shall specify the length of the proposed filing, and
shall not include, as an attachment or otherwise, the proposed motion, response, reply,
or other paper.” Accordingly, the “Statement of Interest” (Doc. 239-2) and each exhibit
to the “Statement of Interest” is STRICKEN. The Clerk is directed to electronically
delete docket item numbers 239-2 through 239-10. Nevertheless the United States’
motion (Doc. 239) to submit a statement of interest is GRANTED. On or before
October 2, 2009, the United States may submit a statement of interest of no more than
ten (10) pages. Because the United States asserts an interest only after the
opportunity to offer evidence to the magistrate judge and after the report and
recommendation, the statement of interest may not include evidentiary matter, such as
an exhibit, affidavit, declaration, or any other evidentiary matter not offered to the
magistrate judge for consideration. The plaintiff’s unopposed motion (Doc. 241) to
respond to the statement of interest of the United States is GRANTED. No later than
ten (10) days after the United States submits the statement of interest, the plaintiff may
file a response of no more than ten (10) pages.

Finally, the plaintiff’s motion (Doc. 242) for leave to reply in support of the
objections to the magistrate judge’s report and recommendation is GRANTED. On or
before October 16, 2009, the plaintiff may submit a reply of no more than ten pages.
ORDERED in Tampa, Florida, on September 18, 2009.

Now let's attempt to define this scurrilous "pirate talk???

The true "black pirates" of the 21st century all have law degrees... arhh..  
But I think this order out of one side of its mouth tells the DOJ which I think use
to be the , "Department of Justice" to stick it...  While out of the other side
of its mouth the Federal Judge appears to be conditionally accepting inclusion of the
Department of state's narrow minded (bullcrap) position... brief for review..

The final vote is still not in but remember folks...  this is just another example that
 the rats are guarding the cheeze!  

I had a Federal Judge once, reverse a magistrate's report and recommendation so...
stranger things have happened but, that was back in the 20th century before we
reverted back to feudalism - and our U.S. Government protecting the "royal interests"...
in the name of the (more bull crap) people... and the war graves act    


 

http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/2553338/

Jeff, do you have the names of the individuals in the US Justice Dept. that are actually initiating this motion?

A federal judge ruled that the U.S. government may present a new motion favorable to the interests of Spain in the battle over $500 million in gold and silver coins salvaged more than two years ago by a Florida treasure-hunting.