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1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- Restoration COMPLETE! - 6 March

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United StatesOffline
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WESTERN MASS

Reply To This Topic #100 Posted Mar 05, 2008, 08:43:04 am

Way to go Don! It really deserved the Banner, and it got it!

A kind word echos for eternity
**Bring History Back to Life**

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"SNY” pre-Civil War Belt Plate - Eagle Belt Plate - 1835 Half Dollar - Civil War Eagle Cuff Button
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Primary Interest: All Types Of Treasure Hunting

Reply To This Topic #101 Posted Mar 05, 2008, 08:48:01 am

     Now if thats not bringing History back to life.......I don't know what is.   Like I said earlier

      Excellent Find!   

Sometimes you need to look back ........to a time that made you laugh and smile!  Memories of all the great times..... will always be there!!
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South Africa
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1893 Gold Kruger Pond
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Primary Interest: Metal Detecting

Reply To This Topic #102 Posted Mar 05, 2008, 10:07:44 am

Wow, exciting topic and photo..... was this a civil war time gent? I presume dressed like that, he was not a poor or ordinary gent? I will follow this topic very closely..... Great work, keep it up.

God bless
Peter

   All items found using Tesoro Silver Sabre II metal detector
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Reply To This Topic #103 Posted Mar 05, 2008, 10:51:06 am

Don,
All I can say is WOW...

I read your original post and thought it was amazing then just came back to read about your conservation efforts and I'm extremely impressed.  The frame looks great and the photo is coming along nicely.  Can wait to see how the electrolysis comes out.  One thing I did miss is what happened to the glass.  Did it just not clean up enough for you or did it break?  just curious.

Thank you for the great post and looking forward to your next update.

NJ
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Reply To This Topic #104 Posted Mar 05, 2008, 12:02:30 pm

Honestly, I've never seen better conservators anywhere than some of the folks on Tnet!

Great job and kudos for having the guts to do it and taking the time to share!

Cavers5

Reply To This Topic #105 Posted Mar 05, 2008, 12:11:39 pm

Don,
All I can say is WOW...

I read your original post and thought it was amazing then just came back to read about your conservation efforts and I'm extremely impressed.  The frame looks great and the photo is coming along nicely.  Can wait to see how the electrolysis comes out.  One thing I did miss is what happened to the glass.  Did it just not clean up enough for you or did it break?  just curious.

Thank you for the great post and looking forward to your next update.

NJ

Even on Daguerreotypes that have never been buried in the ground for 150 years or so get the glass replaced by conservators as a somewhat common practice from what I have read in my research. The glass gets etched and also old glass evidently contained impurities that modern glass does not have and that also contributed to the degrading of the daguerreotypes. 

But my piece of glass was really foggy, and it was embedded in the glass, I tried several procedures to clear it up and it just was not going to happen, so I will save the glass as it is an original and piece of the frame, but for visual sake, the glass had to be replaced.

Attached is a photo of the glass after I tried several cleaning methods and it would not clear up.

Don
Portrait Glass.jpg
* Portrait Glass.jpg (99.38 KB, 420x511 - viewed 2595 times.)

"The mantra has always been don't clean a (copper) coin or it will lose value.
 For undug coins this is true.  For dug coins this is untrue.
 The value will increase with judicious cleaning."
The Lord Has Risen

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Cherokee Strip Evelyn Stone

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Reply To This Topic #106 Posted Mar 05, 2008, 04:23:20 pm





                                                CONGRATS!

This is the day the Lord hath made we shall rejoice and be glad in it!
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northwest tn.
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Reply To This Topic #107 Posted Mar 05, 2008, 04:44:17 pm

i have enjoyed watching this post, and am looking foward to the results and history of it.congrats, and great job. banner for sure!! Smiley

titan
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Reply To This Topic #108 Posted Mar 05, 2008, 04:48:33 pm

Congrats Don on a well deserved banner find.
Very neat.
-MM-

Oldest coin - 1700's Spanish silver piece of 8 reale
Oldest U.S. silver - 1833 Capped Bust Half Dime
Oldest U.S. copper - 1847 Large cent
Civil War best finds:
*NC officers belt buckle
*CSN Confederate Navy Officer button
*Eagle Sword Belt Plate
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Michigan
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Reply To This Topic #109 Posted Mar 05, 2008, 05:57:20 pm

I applaud your efforts.  Your find and the restoration of it are both great, and the banner is well-deserved!

1800's photos are a bit spooky, but I like to think that the fellow in the picture is somewhere being happy about what you've done.

Reply To This Topic #110 Posted Mar 06, 2008, 12:58:23 pm

I did the Electrolysis today and it went fairly well, although I did over do it a bit and actually it started to look worst. Overall I am very happy with the results, I never thought with all that corrosion that just about any restoration would have been possible but a lot of reading, and a gut feeling about trying the way the Princeton website roughly showed did pay off.

Time to concentrate of Spring things around the house and finding some more old coppers.

Attached photos are of the Electrolysis setup, and what the photo looked like when done and the sequence of before and after photos.

I will always have it in the back of my head to hope to find out who the young man is, and maybe if I get in contact with the appropriate historical societies in the area (two county area) maybe, just maybe could find out who the young man was.

After much research and one or two collectors telling me, the age of this Daguerreotype is between 1855-1860, based on the Mat plate design.

It has been fun doing this, and a learning experience, I love cleaning and preserving the old coppers and wish to get into that in a more serious way, but one thing I learned in the research for how to clean the Daguerreotype is that Conservators in general are very tight lipped about their procedures, whether it be coins, photos or other artifacts.

Thanks for all the comments and I think a lot of us learned a little history on early photographs and sure is cool seeing how people dressed back before the Civil War. 

To see some beautiful Daguerreotypes on the web, go to http://www.finedags.com/index.shtm   (LOL there is even a cheesecake photo on this site, of course it is "art") Smiley

Don
Elelectrolysis setup2.jpg
* Elelectrolysis setup2.jpg (220.38 KB, 1028x1184 - viewed 2456 times.)
BeforeElectroAfterElectro 45seconds.jpg
* BeforeElectroAfterElectro 45seconds.jpg (59.56 KB, 789x456 - viewed 2441 times.)
Clean Sequence 4 shots.jpg
* Clean Sequence 4 shots.jpg (158.83 KB, 1497x433 - viewed 2439 times.)
PostElectroCleaning 45 seconds.jpg
* PostElectroCleaning 45 seconds.jpg (237.06 KB, 436x507 - viewed 2186 times.)

"The mantra has always been don't clean a (copper) coin or it will lose value.
 For undug coins this is true.  For dug coins this is untrue.
 The value will increase with judicious cleaning."
Finder of assorted junk and a few neat things

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Olympia Washington
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Reply To This Topic #111 Posted Mar 06, 2008, 01:19:22 pm

That's amazing.....congrats to you on both an awesome find, and an incredible job of cleaning and preservation! Best of luck tracking the person down.

As soon as I clear all this junk out of here I'm gonna find some good stuff......really, I will, just watch me.
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Reply To This Topic #112 Posted Mar 06, 2008, 02:04:45 pm

Don,
Congratulations on the find, the conservation and the banner.  I now know a new Daguerreotype cleaning expert that may advise a fellow T-Neter if the need ever arises for slightly less then the 500-1000 dollar price tag of other experts.  LOL

Nice job.

NJ
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Montana
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Reply To This Topic #113 Posted Mar 06, 2008, 02:12:01 pm

Don...


 
YOU
ARE
THE
MAN


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PA
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Reply To This Topic #114 Posted Mar 06, 2008, 02:12:23 pm

You frickin' rock, Don!  Not only are you great at digging coppas, you are also a great conservator. Cheesy

You are due for another one of those green circles. Cheesy

Kyle

Those early PA settlers did too much occasion14 and that is why coppas are found in abundance!

The Three Datectateers will walk miles to find the Colonial "stuff"! love4

KirkKyleChris (KKC) icon_salut and notworthy to those long-forgotten, coppa-dropping settlers!
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SE Missouri
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Reply To This Topic #115 Posted Mar 06, 2008, 02:19:31 pm

amazing!  thanx for sharing your find, & the whole process.  It was a fun ride.

dancing in the fire!
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PA
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Reply To This Topic #116 Posted Mar 06, 2008, 02:23:57 pm

Since I didn't like my 666 post count, I decided to post another.

I love you, Don! Cheesy

Kyle

Those early PA settlers did too much and that is why coppas are found in abundance!

The Three Datectateers will miles to find the Colonial "stuff"!

KirkKyleChris (KKC) and to those long-forgotten, coppa-dropping settlers!
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Great Falls, Montana
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Reply To This Topic #117 Posted Mar 06, 2008, 02:25:11 pm

Don, You're a brave man hooking that up to electrolosis.....but YOU DID IT!!  Shocked Shocked

This is not banner material......This definately belongs in "The Best of TreasureNet".  No doubt about it.

Fantastic thread!!   Smiley
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Reply To This Topic #118 Posted Mar 06, 2008, 02:54:36 pm

Lisa is right!  (As always...  Smiley)

Don... 21 members and 30 visitors are looking at this right now Smiley

CANE FIELD BANDITS IRON BRIGADE MEMBER

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Reply To This Topic #119 Posted Mar 06, 2008, 02:59:30 pm

Bravo, Don!  You also got the thumbs up from my friend who has been watching your post! 

Now how's about a photo of the Daguerrotype back in its frame and matte with that new glass over it?

 Shocked Shocked Shocked

Any relics, coins, or other items appearing in my finds posts were found on PRIVATE PROPERTY with total consent and permission from the owners of said property.

Scrap IRON recovered and recycled since March 2008: 2660 lbs.
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Plainville,Ga
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Reply To This Topic #120 Posted Mar 06, 2008, 03:13:51 pm

Way to go Don,you did a great job on restoring the photo. It was also a great post and was fun keeping track of it.

"Whiskey - I like it, I always did, and that is the reason I never use it".   Robert E. Lee
Let's go dig some history!

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TEXAS Sean Bailey

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Reply To This Topic #121 Posted Mar 06, 2008, 03:15:31 pm

VERY nice job!! It has been great watching the progression of the restoration!
Baggins
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Southwest Georgia
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Reply To This Topic #122 Posted Mar 06, 2008, 03:23:07 pm

Real cool!  Congrats. 

...Wait a minute....just slow down.... you're gonna miss this....you're gonna want this back.....
The Lord Has Risen

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Cherokee Strip Evelyn Stone

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Reply To This Topic #123 Posted Mar 06, 2008, 03:26:53 pm

This I beleive has been my very favorite post of all to read, I cant wait to get to the comp. so I can check to see how its comming along! This has been the --  BEST!! --

Please keep us updated as what happens next and if you find anything else to restore! ;)

This is the day the Lord hath made we shall rejoice and be glad in it!
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New Mexico
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Reply To This Topic #124 Posted Mar 06, 2008, 03:34:35 pm

Thats Fantastic, Been watching this thread since day one always anxiously awaiting the next post.
It has been a great ride watching you learn and learn with you.
Thanks for all of it...
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Southern CA
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Reply To This Topic #125 Posted Mar 06, 2008, 03:44:15 pm

Don, the transformation of your Daguerreotype is astounding!!!

I too am awaiting what the final product will look like in its frame and matte.

I always use non-iodized salt and lemon juice as the electrolyte for electrolysis of my silver.  Have you found your 3-1 water/ammonia solution more effective or about the same?

Congrats again,
CAPTN SE
Dan
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Reply To This Topic #126 Posted Mar 06, 2008, 04:43:35 pm

Congratulations on a truly extraordinary restoration!
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WESTERN MASS

Reply To This Topic #127 Posted Mar 06, 2008, 05:44:13 pm

The most impressive post I've seen! The restoration is perfect! Thank for sharing your expertise and for taking the risk in restring this wonderful piece of history. Good luck in finding who it is!

A kind word echos for eternity
Why is this blank?

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Palm Bay, Florida, USA
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Reply To This Topic #128 Posted Mar 06, 2008, 05:59:02 pm

Wow, that's a fantastic restortion!  Great work, that photo is amazingly improved.  I would have never thought that was possible if I hadn't seen you do it!

FC

Rules to live by:
1.  Don't sweat the small stuff.
2. It's ALL small stuff.

occasion14
da book worm--researcher

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callahan,fl
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Reply To This Topic #129 Posted Mar 06, 2008, 07:41:07 pm

what can I say ---i'm impressed ---great job of restoring!!!  & a neat find .
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Reply To This Topic #130 Posted Mar 06, 2008, 08:51:05 pm

I completely agree with the others that this is a "Best Of Treasurenet" thread. The results of your efforts are outstanding. I would never have believed that photo could look that good after proper cleaning. I'm hoping that I find one some day so that I can give it a try using your methods.
1851 O Half Dime

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Southeast Missouri
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Reply To This Topic #131 Posted Mar 06, 2008, 09:10:24 pm

The "right man" found that relic.  If anyone else had found that, it would have not been given the pristine care and attention that you did.  That was a HOMERUN!!!!!!!  I congratulate you!!!
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California
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Reply To This Topic #132 Posted Mar 06, 2008, 10:37:03 pm

I think you found a rare Red Skelton photo  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Good one... LoL!!!
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East Texas

Reply To This Topic #133 Posted Mar 06, 2008, 11:12:50 pm

I have been following this thread since it started. You have done an amazing job!

Tesoro Vaquero
Garrett GTI 1500
Garrett ACE 250
BountyHunter QuickDraw II
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South Georgia

Reply To This Topic #134 Posted Mar 07, 2008, 01:06:32 am

Great job!  It's amazing how much better the photo looks!  I like the way you approached the project in small measured steps that eventually yielded an outstanding result.

God Bless!
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SE Louisiana
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Reply To This Topic #135 Posted Mar 07, 2008, 06:03:03 am

I have to agree...Best of TNet & Banner.  W&E will probably want the story.

Don, you really did a terrific, outstanding job on the restoration..I bet your heart was in your throat while you was doing the electrolysis.

You know what?  That guy was a handsome young man in his day.

 ;) RR

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Hesperia, MI Tom Kamrowski

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Reply To This Topic #136 Posted Mar 07, 2008, 07:28:09 am

CONGRATS DON!!!!

The pic looks awesome!

-SgtSki

"There comes a time in every rightly constructed boy's life when he has a raging desire to go somewhere and dig for hidden treasure." - Mark Twain, "The Adventures of Tom Sawyer"
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NC
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Reply To This Topic #137 Posted Mar 07, 2008, 09:34:03 am

I can't find the words to describe how impressed I am with your work on this.  Thank you very much for posting the details and pictures on how you did the restoration.  It is truly fascinating.   
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Reply To This Topic #138 Posted Mar 07, 2008, 01:01:33 pm

This post is still on fire.  Don, you rock!

Kyle

Those early PA settlers did too much and that is why coppas are found in abundance!

The Three Datectateers will miles to find the Colonial "stuff"!

KirkKyleChris (KKC) and to those long-forgotten, coppa-dropping settlers!
*
United StatesOffline
Posts: 10871
North Carolina
Detector used Detector(s) Used - Tesoro Vaquero, Tesoro Silver Umax, Vibraprobe pinpointer

_____________
Bannered!
Anson Mill’s Belt Plate - North Carolina Civil War Officer's Buckle - Confederate Navy Officers Button - 19th Century Minerva Brooch
_____________

___________
Honorable Mention!
WFFD Electrician Badge Found & Returned - Museum Donations - Wedding Ring Found & Returned - Another Ring Found & Returned! - Relics On Display - Wedding Band Found & Returned
___________


Primary Interest: All Types Of Treasure Hunting

Reply To This Topic #139 Posted Mar 07, 2008, 01:09:24 pm

Don,
UNBELIEVABLE!!!!  I can't believe you brought that picture back to it's present condition. You Sir are The Man!!!
Very cool.
-MM-

Oldest coin - 1700's Spanish silver piece of 8 reale
Oldest U.S. silver - 1833 Capped Bust Half Dime
Oldest U.S. copper - 1847 Large cent
Civil War best finds:
*NC officers belt buckle
*CSN Confederate Navy Officer button
*Eagle Sword Belt Plate

Reply To This Topic #140 Posted Mar 07, 2008, 01:38:09 pm

I always use non-iodized salt and lemon juice as the electrolyte for electrolysis of my silver.  Have you found your 3-1 water/ammonia solution more effective or about the same?

Congrats again,
CAPTN SE
Dan

Dan

I wanted to try an match what the Conservators did to restore the Dag's on the Princeton University website and they did what they called "Electrocleaning" using Distilled Water and Ammonium Hydroxide.  Of course they never gave the ratio amounts, so that was just a gamble on my part, educated gamble though, since the 3 to 1 was basically what I used on the soak to get rid of the copper corrosion.

As far as using what we consider the standard electrolyte for doing coins, iron, etc, well, I sure would not have even thought of it, especially since a large portion of what I had to restore was copper and the thin plating was the silver and some mercury.

I believe salt might have been a disaster, with the copper and silver both being on the same plate, but not sure, anyway, I just tried to do as the conservator did with the Princeton Dags...... Smiley

Don

"The mantra has always been don't clean a (copper) coin or it will lose value.
 For undug coins this is true.  For dug coins this is untrue.
 The value will increase with judicious cleaning."
*
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Colonial, PA
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Reply To This Topic #141 Posted Mar 07, 2008, 03:12:18 pm

This post deserves to be back up top! Keep the passion high, buddy bud budster! ;) Cheesy

Kirk
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Bavaria Germany
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Reply To This Topic #142 Posted Mar 07, 2008, 03:23:17 pm

Awesome job Don, very nice!  HH, Mike
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Reply To This Topic #143 Posted Mar 07, 2008, 03:59:36 pm

Nice work. That power supply is a bit scary. LOL
Normal method is a variable supply, and most likely pin point electrolysis.

 Very useful experiment and information with great results.
*
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northwest tn.
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Reply To This Topic #144 Posted Mar 07, 2008, 04:33:54 pm

this has been the most interesting post i have seen in awhile, i can't wait to check on the status of the next step as you go along!!Great job , please keep us informed as you go! BANNER FOR SURE  Grin

titan
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Ohio
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Reply To This Topic #145 Posted Mar 07, 2008, 06:38:23 pm

I'm also new to this site, and I must stand squarely in the same corner as Metalfinder.
I'm awaiting delivery on my first MD,next week.
Don, you are a true inspiration to someone just entering this field.
I commend you on a job well done.   ;)


Mike.

If there's a will,there's a way.

Reply To This Topic #146 Posted Mar 08, 2008, 08:18:05 am

I am researching on this rainy day in South Jersey some possible surnames for the individual, using land record names that I have found.  I am trying to determine an age so I can sort of line up possiblities based on when they were born, matching the age of the man in the photo.

Assuming the photo is from 1855-1860 range, I believe the individual should have been born in the late 1820's to no later than 1840, with early to mid 1830's being the prime target dates.   My primary guess is that he is in his early 20's?

Any thoughts on this age estimate? 

Don

"The mantra has always been don't clean a (copper) coin or it will lose value.
 For undug coins this is true.  For dug coins this is untrue.
 The value will increase with judicious cleaning."
*
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Montana
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Bannered!
Indian War Era Infantry Hat Pin
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Reply To This Topic #147 Posted Mar 08, 2008, 10:51:06 am

Life expetancy at that time was 38 - 40 years old.   

Your best find is still in the ground somewhere

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Hazelwood, MO
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Reply To This Topic #148 Posted Mar 08, 2008, 11:54:14 am

Don, that's a great find and a great job restoring the photo yourself.  I swore I replied to your post originally and went through over 150 replies to it to make sure, and I found I didn't put in my 2 cents worth..so here it is..this is, in my opinion, the most interesting post I've ever seen here on TNet since I've been a part of it.  A wonderful find Don, and when you've enjoyed a post and learned something besides, that makes it all the more worthwhile to see.

Thanks for taking the time to educate all of us and share in your discovery.

Nat
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New Jersey
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Reply To This Topic #149 Posted Mar 08, 2008, 12:26:01 pm

That's pretty amazing but did you have to use a mercury dime?  Shocked LOL. 

I am just wondering now if there is any chance using a silver dime in that method could put a date back on a coin where the date was worn off.  I seriously doubt it but wouldn't it be great.  I bet there are a lot of dateless Type I Standing Liberty quarters this would be tried on. 

HH

joe
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South Africa
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1893 Gold Kruger Pond
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Primary Interest: Metal Detecting

Reply To This Topic #150 Posted Mar 09, 2008, 09:05:24 am

Umm great results there Don, you have taken chances and won.... that is what it is about.... I think that maybe I have found your man today?

bobing.gif

God bless
Peter

   All items found using Tesoro Silver Sabre II metal detector
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Reply To This Topic #151 Posted Mar 09, 2008, 12:50:13 pm

That's just - You did one incredible, fantastic job of restoration on that picture.  It's just fabulous.

I'm so glad you shared the adventure with the rest of TNet!  It was like seeing this fellow rise from the past and stand in front of us, clear eyed.  Wow.

Thanks
Nan



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Reply To This Topic #152 Posted Mar 09, 2008, 02:08:46 pm

I am researching on this rainy day in South Jersey some possible surnames for the individual, using land record names that I have found.  I am trying to determine an age so I can sort of line up possiblities based on when they were born, matching the age of the man in the photo.

Assuming the photo is from 1855-1860 range, I believe the individual should have been born in the late 1820's to no later than 1840, with early to mid 1830's being the prime target dates.   My primary guess is that he is in his early 20's?

Any thoughts on this age estimate? 

Don

I'd probably say early to mid-20s, maybe. 

Once you find names for the property, you could possibly check for marriages at that property (newspaper, census) as he's really dressed nicely.  He's even got his starched collar on, and a black tie.  Unless he only dressed up for the picture itself.

Best to you, if anybody can find out who, it's probably you!

Nan
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Reply To This Topic #153 Posted Mar 09, 2008, 04:08:09 pm

You photo is really improving. Nice find.
Congratulations.

Ray S
Old photo 3a.JPG
* Old photo 3a.JPG (61.2 KB, 362x424 - viewed 2066 times.)

Ray S ECenFL
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Reply To This Topic #154 Posted Mar 10, 2008, 10:04:41 am

good luck on the search, your local historic society might have records of traveling photographers that came through the area. We have some old family photos from probably the 1870's-80's that were taken by one, and apparently he did quite a bit of work in the area. Of course it was in a rural area in the middle of Illinois, and his presence made the local paper back then. I think he charged something like 25 cents a photo? I can't remember right off.


It's strange to think of what a big deal it was then to have your picture taken, people would put on their sunday best, and hold a pose for quite a long time to get it done. I've seen the photographers stands that they used to keep peoples heads from moving and blurring the image, and it looks like an uncomfortable prospect to say the least. At any rate you have a very nice image of someone who probably spent all morning getting dressed up and who probably spent a good chunk of his wages to have it done. I hope you can put a name to him.

As soon as I clear all this junk out of here I'm gonna find some good stuff......really, I will, just watch me.
In North Carolina!

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Reply To This Topic #155 Posted Mar 10, 2008, 05:14:55 pm

Don ... congratulations on a unique find, a great restoration, and a well deserved spot on the banner ~ Jimmy

Low & Slow ... Dig Everything ... Sounds Easy Enough!
When I bury my treasure I am gonna throw pulltabs everywhere

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Reply To This Topic #156 Posted Mar 10, 2008, 06:52:23 pm

 Smiley Smiley :)CONGRATS ON MAKING THE BANNER!!!! Smiley Smiley Smiley

This post has grabbed my attention and I can't wait to see how it all ends.
Nice work so far. Your doing a great job. Keep it up

acedigger
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Reply To This Topic #157 Posted Mar 10, 2008, 07:33:43 pm

Is it my imagination or is there some writing or printing at about 8 o'clock?

HH

- joe

Reply To This Topic #158 Posted Mar 11, 2008, 10:25:45 am

I went back this morning to the area where I found the old photo and took a couple pictures of the site, I again checked very thoroughly and no other diggable readings, just like the previous trips. The only artifact to come from this area was the photo!.  Lots of iron hits but nothing that could be dug.  I proceeded on further down the road after taking these photos to a known homestead and got a couple of relics, which I will post later, I might need help in IDing both of them. Hint, one is a heart with and eagle with shield on it, but still researching before I post later. Smiley

Don
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"The mantra has always been don't clean a (copper) coin or it will lose value.
 For undug coins this is true.  For dug coins this is untrue.
 The value will increase with judicious cleaning."
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Reply To This Topic #159 Posted Mar 11, 2008, 10:33:05 am

DON, thats friggin' fantastic.  Great work.  ...........Rich
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Reply To This Topic #160 Posted Mar 11, 2008, 10:41:22 am

Hint, one is a heart with and eagle with shield on it, but still researching before I post later.

Sounds like a Civil War period martingale, usually attributed as an officer's martingale.  If you've got a copy of Howard R. Crouch's Civil War Artifacts, compare your find to martingale #3 on p. 131.
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Reply To This Topic #161 Posted Mar 11, 2008, 10:58:31 am

That's what I was thinking he found. Don did you really find another Martingale?

A kind word echos for eternity

Reply To This Topic #162 Posted Mar 11, 2008, 11:09:51 am

Hint, one is a heart with and eagle with shield on it, but still researching before I post later.

Sounds like a Civil War period martingale, usually attributed as an officer's martingale.  If you've got a copy of Howard R. Crouch's Civil War Artifacts, compare your find to martingale #3 on p. 131.

Well, I wish it were my second martingale, but this is smaller, all copper and is a double pinned item.  I will post it shortly in What is it.  I believe it is much older than Civil War, whatever it is , 1800-1850s I think.

Don

"The mantra has always been don't clean a (copper) coin or it will lose value.
 For undug coins this is true.  For dug coins this is untrue.
 The value will increase with judicious cleaning."
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Reply To This Topic #163 Posted Mar 11, 2008, 11:16:52 am

Hello Don,

I have followed, with much interest, your series of posts concerning the most excellent daguerreotype.

Years ago I was involved in geneology quite a bit.  I kept coming across copies of a double daguerreotype of my great-great grandfather and mother...bad copies at that, but at least they were identified and that it was their wedding photo "after the war."

After a couple of years, many visits to family and friends, two visits to the National Archives etc., I received a phone call from a lady I barely remembered interviewing.  She said, "If you want to come over here and look through some old photos of mine that I can't identify, you can and you can have any you want, before I throw out the whole mess."  I was like a blur and covered the 12 miles in record time.

I sat down at her kitchen table and she brought out a sack full of stuff; tin types, three daguerreotypes and many early 1900's photo post card type stuff.  As I carefully examined each item, when I came to the double (hinged) daguerreotype, it was in the closed position.  When I opened it, my heart almost stopped.  It was no doubt, my great great grandparents.  The old lady said, "what's wrong?"  I said that is the most precious photo I have ever seen."  I told her the story, just knowing I would not be able to keep it.  The photo was ALSO her great great grandparents!  

But she was true to her word.  She gave me all I wanted and to this day it is my prized possession.

By the way, they were married in 1854.

During your restoration did you notice the glass used is much thinner than modern glass?  If you found thin glass, I'd sure like to know your source.  Although my images are crystal clear, one of the glass panes is cracked and I'd really like to replace it.  But the glass shop states they no longer have glass like that in the modern era.  I'm still looking.

Thanks for posting.  Your treasure is definitely 1850's--probably mid 1850's.  Have a ball and treasure it forever.  <><

aj      

Reply To This Topic #164 Posted Mar 11, 2008, 12:30:23 pm


During your restoration did you notice the glass used is much thinner than modern glass?  If you found thin glass, I'd sure like to know your source.  Although my images are crystal clear, one of the glass panes is cracked and I'd really like to replace it.  But the glass shop states they no longer have glass like that in the modern era.  I'm still looking.

Thanks for posting.  Your treasure is definitely 1850's--probably mid 1850's.  Have a ball and treasure it forever.  <><

aj      

AJ, amazing story on your finding the photos of your ggrandparents. I have  photos of my all three of my grandfathers (great great, great and grandfather), but in later years so they are not the old type of photos. Sad

My glass was thick, same thickness as modern glass just about,  .10 inches or 2.5mm, so I had no problem taking picture frame glass I had and cutting down to size, well, yes, I had problems, I had to do glass cutting 101 about 10 attempts before I finally cut one correctly. Smiley   Most conservators replace the glass when restoring.

Don

"The mantra has always been don't clean a (copper) coin or it will lose value.
 For undug coins this is true.  For dug coins this is untrue.
 The value will increase with judicious cleaning."
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Reply To This Topic #165 Posted Mar 11, 2008, 02:38:29 pm

don that pic looks to me like a few i've seen of william bonny  billy the kid was he ever in the area?

Dear Heavenly Father, we have lost our way and we are in need of your help, guidance, and love. We trust that you will provide us with the strength to find our way back to your house.

Reply To This Topic #166 Posted Mar 11, 2008, 02:43:52 pm

Jerry, Billy the Kid was not born until 1859, so not even a possiblility, yet alone him being near this part of South Jersey. Smiley

Don

"The mantra has always been don't clean a (copper) coin or it will lose value.
 For undug coins this is true.  For dug coins this is untrue.
 The value will increase with judicious cleaning."
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Reply To This Topic #167 Posted Mar 11, 2008, 07:37:05 pm

It's like looking at a ghost.

Amazing-

"A culture truly grows great when old men plant trees in who's shade they know they will never sit"
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Reply To This Topic #168 Posted Mar 12, 2008, 10:38:25 am

Congrats on a GREAT Find and  ... a GREAT Job of restoration!

It's Intriguing, Amazing and very much an inspiration to keep us all looking. I went out to my landfill site and got a few recent (1950's) "artifacts". Still...it's really fun thinking about WHAT EXACTLY we can find out there.

HH Joe
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Reply To This Topic #169 Posted Mar 13, 2008, 10:28:25 am

Thanks for the post Don, Its been fun following the drama.  Hats off to your patience . Well done.
Did you think about getting the frame restored ? There is an electro plating shop here in Philly..

 One question..Bearded , or no beard?


 Jim
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Reply To This Topic #170 Posted Mar 13, 2008, 10:37:57 am

Submit it to the "Best Finds!" You should win.

Kirk
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Reply To This Topic #171 Posted Mar 13, 2008, 12:08:17 pm

don- darn i didnt even look at the huge dates in the headline getting old   lol

Dear Heavenly Father, we have lost our way and we are in need of your help, guidance, and love. We trust that you will provide us with the strength to find our way back to your house.
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Reply To This Topic #172 Posted Mar 13, 2008, 12:21:04 pm

Maybe you want to post the portrait here?  http://www.deadfred.com/

It's a long shot but what the heck.

HH

- joe
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Reply To This Topic #173 Posted Mar 16, 2008, 08:43:01 am

Don,
All I can say is WOW...

I read your original post and thought it was amazing then just came back to read about your conservation efforts and I'm extremely impressed.  The frame looks great and the photo is coming along nicely.  Can wait to see how the electrolysis comes out.  One thing I did miss is what happened to the glass.  Did it just not clean up enough for you or did it break?  just curious.

Thank you for the great post and looking forward to your next update.

NJ

Even on Daguerreotypes that have never been buried in the ground for 150 years or so get the glass replaced by conservators as a somewhat common practice from what I have read in my research. The glass gets etched and also old glass evidently contained impurities that modern glass does not have and that also contributed to the degrading of the daguerreotypes. 

But my piece of glass was really foggy, and it was embedded in the glass, I tried several procedures to clear it up and it just was not going to happen, so I will save the glass as it is an original and piece of the frame, but for visual sake, the glass had to be replaced.

Attached is a photo of the glass after I tried several cleaning methods and it would not clear up.

Don

Awesome job Don ! One of the best post's I've read Thank's ! When you say the glass gets etched,do you mean by natural means ? To me it looks almost like there was an intentional etching in the glass.It kind of looks like a floral pattern done to surround the photo.
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Reply To This Topic #174 Posted Mar 16, 2008, 08:49:20 am

You did a great job restoring it.

DM
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Reply To This Topic #175 Posted Mar 17, 2008, 04:27:19 pm

Jerry, Billy the Kid was not born until 1859, so not even a possiblility, yet alone him being near this part of South Jersey. Smiley

Don

Hell I thought that guy looked familiar and I think jerry is right in that it looks like him.  Does it mean that it's him?  No.  Was he a famous individual?  Yes.  There may have been many photos of him floating around.  He was kind of a celebrity, so who is to say this isn't some kind of "fan photo"?  Or, maybe he had relatives in the east that he sent pictures too.  All anyone really knows about him is that he was a horse theif and murderer he was killed in a dark room by Pat Garrett.

If there's one thing that i've learned it's that nothing is certain.  I can think of an instance that a picture of Billy the Kid ended up in a picture frame from the 1850s...

The frame was made in the 1850s and a picture of whoever this guy was could have been placed in it, in the 1870s.  It's simple.  Does that mean it is in fact McCarty?  Heck no but it sure looks a hell of a lot like him to me (see link to picture below)!  Try forensic facial identification companies like the one below that uses FACES software.  I don't know how much they cost but if it turns out you found a previously unknown picture of Billy the Kid they might do the comparison for free...as long as they get a plug on the History Channel when it gets broadcast.

http://www.solarnavigator.net/history/billy_the_kid.htm 
http://www.sketchcop.com/index_SketchCopSolutionsServices.htm

Never underestimate the stupidity of people.
Thanks for playing. You lose.

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Reply To This Topic #176 Posted Mar 17, 2008, 04:28:19 pm

That clean-up progression is awesome up in the banner by the way.  Absolutely awesome.

Never underestimate the stupidity of people.

Reply To This Topic #177 Posted Mar 18, 2008, 03:31:53 pm

I sent the photo collage of the Daguerreotype to one of the Conservator's I conversed with prior to me deciding to do it myself.  I was curious to see if they would say anything derogatory or positive.  Here is the unedited reply, minus the  last names of the individuals and company.

 Hi Don,


In Peter's absence please allow me to comment on your daguerreotype. It does appear to be a daguerreotype created on a electroplated copper sheet (American Process). Often a hallmark can be found on plates near one corner, but this might be less likely with the small format of your daguerreotype.


You had a lot of success in dissolving the copper encrustations. My guess is that they formed at small sites on the plate where the silver coating was compromised and the copper sheet underneath is the source of the material. I would also guess that over time the green corrosion is likely to form again at these sites. While using a basic solution with ammonia may help clear the gunk off the plate I would recommend a second rinse in clear distilled water. I think corrosion is often caused by the basic environment in the plate packet and attributable to materials leaching out of the glass. After the rinse in water I usually follow with a quick rinse of acetone or ethanol with the plate held on edge, immediately followed by drying with low heat using a hair dryer.


I have used electrolytic cleaning to reduce tarnish on several occasions. There seems to be a point when the tarnish lifts off the plate into solution, but is sometimes redeposited onto the plate and becoming more entrenched. Sometimes switching the polarity during the cleaning helps push the materials off. This cleaning can be taken too far resulting in less contrast. Also the brass of the mat may now be more predisposed to localized tarnish where cleared of old tarnish and accretions. I guess I would consider applying a coating of a varnish or gum arabic to lessen the exposure to the environment and slow the deterioration process. The plate should be sealed into a new packet consisting of plate, mat and cover glass. A special tape is usually used; Filmoplast P90, though historically the daguerreotype would have likely been sealed with a strip of paper and some sort of glue around its perimeter. Usually the plate packet would be housed in a small case that was mass-produced for the purpose.


Congratulations on a wonderful little find and mystery. Good luck in your further research, and please feel free to contact us with any other questions.


Richard 
Assistant Conservator

NOTE:  I replied back to him that I did do actually three rinses afterwards with warm distilled water, I also told him I was fairly certain the vast majority of the copper corrosion came from the mat plate which I believe was copper,not brass, and it was gold plated on the viewing side.   As far as protecting the mat, I did put a gold plating preserver on the mat plate to prevent any return of the corrosion.  I did not use the Filmoplast he talks about, it would have had to be ordered, not available in any store I could find locally but I did find a acid free photographic tape that is basically the same thing, so I did seal the plate, mat and glass as he said to do.

I think overall I did everything right, so maybe that is why no really negative comment.   Tomorrow I might send the photos to the Conservator in Boston who quoted me such a high restoration estimate and see what his reply is............

Don

Skrimpy,  Dags were done with in 1860, and Ambrotypes and Tintypes took their place,  I am staying with the fact this photo is most likely from the 1855-1860 at the latest range.   I have tried contacting the relatives on one of the landowners and on three attempts to three separate email addys, they all were returned as undeliverable. Sad   I had gotten the email addys from genealogy website forums.



"The mantra has always been don't clean a (copper) coin or it will lose value.
 For undug coins this is true.  For dug coins this is untrue.
 The value will increase with judicious cleaning."
Thanks for playing. You lose.

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Reply To This Topic #178 Posted Mar 19, 2008, 01:44:10 pm

Skrimpy,  Dags were done with in 1860, and Ambrotypes and Tintypes took their place,  I am staying with the fact this photo is most likely from the 1855-1860 at the latest range.   I have tried contacting the relatives on one of the landowners and on three attempts to three separate email addys, they all were returned as undeliverable. Sad   I had gotten the email addys from genealogy website forums.

You're most likely correct but as I said what I found in any historical research there is almost nothing that is certain.  For example some try to date the site of their abandoned farm house by the style of foundation, style of nails used etc., and it is never certain.  I have seen square and even wooden pegs used in newer construction just to give the appearance of an older home.  Looks like you might have to do the genealogy yourself but you won't match up a picture unless one of them writes you back.  I would try printing out one of those pics and start posting them on the genealogy sites you saw these people posting to.  If they are older they might recognize the photo.

Never underestimate the stupidity of people.
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Reply To This Topic #179 Posted Mar 19, 2008, 02:57:51 pm

Fantastic, you have shown the world what detecting, preservation and appreciation of history is all about. Congratulations on your hard work.

Ed-

Holding history in our hands is a treasure in itself.
                         ~Minelab EXll~
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Reply To This Topic #180 Posted Mar 20, 2008, 12:21:42 pm

WoW - very nice!

HH
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Reply To This Topic #181 Posted Apr 06, 2008, 03:07:31 pm

Amazing Restoration Work There! Can we get a pic of the finished product?- Frame and all?

Aspiring Treasure Diver!
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Reply To This Topic #182 Posted Apr 26, 2008, 12:31:46 pm

Bump-bumpity-bump-bump...........bump-bump!  icon_sunny
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Reply To This Topic #183 Posted Apr 26, 2008, 03:09:24 pm

Post #100

BANNER TIME!  


[ ERROR: SPECIFIED ATTACHMENT MISSING ] [ ERROR: SPECIFIED ATTACHMENT MISSING ] [ ERROR: SPECIFIED ATTACHMENT MISSING ]


WTG Don! Smiley

OK.. that may be the most DISTURBING thing I have ever seen!!! :-)
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Reply To This Topic #184 Posted Apr 26, 2008, 03:15:54 pm

Absolutely amazing recovery  thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup
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Reply To This Topic #185 Posted Apr 26, 2008, 03:29:19 pm

Truley a remarkable post!!! I read all the way through and it was amazing how you did the restoration with the photo!!! Smiley That was awesome!! To bad there wasn't anything more at that hunting site!  Cheesy

Anyone can make life interesting you just have to go out there and do things instead of sitting on your butt doing nothing. Second quote: Life is about trying new things not just standing around.
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Reply To This Topic #186 Posted May 08, 2008, 08:45:36 am

Absolutely amazing job on that photo, I tip my hat to you good sir!  icon_king
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Reply To This Topic #187 Posted May 13, 2008, 10:07:04 am

ME IS IMPRESSED!

Way to go! I am amazed at the before and after photos!
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Reply To This Topic #188 Posted Oct 15, 2009, 11:58:23 am

congrats on that restoration project !!

ALLEN
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Reply To This Topic #189 Posted Feb 06, 2011, 10:26:37 am

Hi Don,

Thanks very much for the picture! icon_thumright As a result of your meticulous restoration efforts you've saved this piece from disappearing into history completely. notworthy I also love the work you did on the frame and the copper surround, it looks amazing! Shocked

Thanks again for sending it to me,
Dave   

PS. Just thought this post was interesting enough to resurrect it!
Before & After.jpg
* Before & After.jpg (70.06 KB, 640x371 - viewed 650 times.)

I love hunting old relic sites . . . as I feel
the imprint of past lives often linger there.

I view relic sites as windows to the past, sacred places
in a way, yet at the same time attesting to the reality
that the past is still very much a part of our today!
The Lord Has Risen

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Reply To This Topic #190 Posted Feb 06, 2011, 08:03:17 pm

Your right !  icon_sunny

This is the day the Lord hath made we shall rejoice and be glad in it!
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Reply To This Topic #191 Posted Feb 07, 2011, 07:36:08 am

Don,
I loved this post during it's first go around.  It has been three years since the first post.  I know it is a long shot put have you had any luck trying to track down who is in the picture?
NJ
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Reply To This Topic #192 Posted Feb 07, 2011, 09:45:47 am

What more can I say that others already have said?  STUPENDOUS, Yes I read this post from it's begining.  You ARE DA MAN!!!! I wonder if any of your methods could be used on cruddy, toasted coppas?  .........NGE
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Reply To This Topic #193 Posted Feb 07, 2011, 10:17:54 am

 Thanks for "bumping" this, otherwise I may have missed it. I read this last night and was simply amazed at your restoration. Job well done and thanks for sharing.
                                                                                               Richard

Reply To This Topic #194 Posted Feb 07, 2011, 10:43:45 am

Don,
I loved this post during it's first go around.  It has been three years since the first post.  I know it is a long shot put have you had any luck trying to track down who is in the picture?
NJ


I did not find out who the man is in the photo, but will never give up on trying either, the neat thing though, in that time frame there was a Dag Photographer in the nearby town and his surname is the same as mine, but no relation, since all of mine were in Pennsylvania at that time.....

Don

"The mantra has always been don't clean a (copper) coin or it will lose value.
 For undug coins this is true.  For dug coins this is untrue.
 The value will increase with judicious cleaning."
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United StatesOffline
Posts: 2685
Middlesex County, New Jersey
Detector used Detector(s) Used - Whites DFX w/ Sunray DX-1 probe and Minelab Excalibur 1000


Primary Interest: Metal Detecting

Reply To This Topic #195 Posted Feb 07, 2011, 01:44:54 pm

Don,
I loved this post during it's first go around.  It has been three years since the first post.  I know it is a long shot put have you had any luck trying to track down who is in the picture?
NJ


I did not find out who the man is in the photo, but will never give up on trying either, the neat thing though, in that time frame there was a Dag Photographer in the nearby town and his surname is the same as mine, but no relation, since all of mine were in Pennsylvania at that time.....

Don

I thought it would be rather hard to do unless you could tie it to a specific home site.  Then work from there on the list of owners and their relatives.  A friend of mine buys old pictures of civil war soldiers then researches who they are but that is a little easier when you have a rank and sometimes a company to go by.  Not just flying blind.

Good luck

NJ
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Posts: 1167
southern, Maine

Primary Interest: All Types Of Treasure Hunting

Reply To This Topic #196 Posted Sep 21, 2011, 11:57:53 pm

amazing and inspirational process to this restoration!

2012 totals
Wheats (1456)..oldest 1909
Buffalo Nickels (9)
War Nickels (22)
FDR(1)
IHC (5) 06',63',05',80',00'
Shield nickel 1878 partial date
40% half (4)
90% Half (1) 64'
king george V (1)
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