Need advice on retrieving treasure from the bottom of an old swimming hole

Here's the scenerio...........
A very active Swimming hole during the 40's and 50's. Approximately 12 feet deep at the location where there used to be a diving board. We've attempted to detect it using underwater gear, but unsuccessful. The problem, the bottom is soooo "mucky", that it's difficult to even know where the bottom is. Zero visibility, heavy vegetation, etc, etc.

Our thoughts are to bring the bottom of the lake to the surface to screen it, but we don't currently have the resources. I'm sure there's some dredging machine that could do this, but we don't want to wrap a small fortune up in renting/buying one. We might consider building one if someone could provide some plans??

Right now, our thoughts are to simply take 5 gallon buckets, drag them across the bottom, and haul them up. A little primitive, but I think it might work.

Does anyone have any better ideas/thoughts on this?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Jules

julesjunk,

               Google the words "Drag Line Bucket" (To save me explaining to you). It needs to be made of something heavier than a plastic bucket. If you can't get on the other side of the pond / stream whatever rig a mooring with a turn around pulley. (To pull the DL back out into the water a little beyond the hole.) Attach a handcranked or electric winch to a tree on the shore and start pulling in the goodies!              Joe

Have you considered pumping the water out? Drain it?

Have you considered pumping the water out? Drain it?

Unfortunately, the body of water is too large.......

 "Drag Line Bucket" (To save me explaining to you). It needs to be made of something heavier than a plastic bucket.

Thanks for the lead.
Based on the pics from a google search, a tow truck would be ideal. Too bad I don't have access to one.

Not sure how to build a tripod or "hoist". I'm assuming the resistence would be too great to simply drag the bucket across the bottom and up the bank, even with an electric wench. I suppose some experimenting is in my future.

julesjunk,

                 As long as you can get the winch a little higher than the water level you won't have any problem and will not need a hoist. The secret is to rig the bridle on the bucket so it's adjustable. That way the bucket will dig in just the right amount. This is simple to rig up and it will work.             Joe

julesjunk,

 That way the bucket will dig in just the right amount. This is simple to rig up and it will work.             Joe

Thanks Joe.
I was looking at some of the google pics of the buckets. Shouldn't be too hard to rig it for adjustment. Will have to noise around for an appropriate bucket. I have a couple metal 5 gallon buckets that may work. Will need to reinforce the handle. Maybe weld a chain onto it with some steel flat stock running across the bottom and up both sides.

Regards,
Jules

Sounds like a job for a scuba diver with an underwater metal detector.

Tom

Sounds like a job for a scuba diver with an underwater metal detector.

We tried that Tom. Visibility at zero, a high amount of vegetation, and a very soft bottom left us going home with empty tanks, and empty pockets. However, I am 100% sure there are items to be found, as the grounds surrounding the lake produced several silver, and a couple golds.........

Hey Jules,

My question would be, how much are you willing to invest into this venture?

I would suggest looking into a portable dredge.

Many people use these types of dredges for gold prospecting in deep water filled holes such as you have described.

I am posting a link here to a site that has quite a lot of information and "how to's" of dredging.

http://www.goldfeverprospecting.com/drforgoin.html

Basically, the idea is to float a "sluice box" on the water and using the gas mechanical pump, simply use suction at the bottom of the swimming hole to suck up all the contents of the swimming hole and pump them into the floating dredge and thus the sluice box, where all of the contents from the bottom are revealed in the sluice box.

You may even be able to buy a used one on ebay or some place.

Sounds like you have your fun and adventure cut out for you.

Thanks for the interesting question.

Happy hunting and good luck.

tgravatt

coin dredge

Heck, I would take my ATV there with my electric winch which is on it and toss me a weighted bucket on it and drag that sucker back.  You can rent or buy portable winches and attach it to your vehicle or a tree near by.  Where theres a will theres a way!

You can rip out the growth/vegetation, sink sectional markers and either fan or blow past the silt/muck and work a grid pattern. Move the sectional mark, lather, rinse and repeat.

Guess I'm not sure what you mean by sectional markers?
I like the concept. Though where the swim hole is located makes easy access to "air" difficult. I suppose I could rent several bottles. The area we want to focus on is around 10-12 foot deep, though the entire area should eventually be checked.

Hey Jules,

My question would be, how much are you willing to invest into this venture?

At this point, trying to keep cost down to a minimum. I already spend more on this hobby than my wife considers sane.  I'm somewhat of a "jackoff" of all trades, so anything I can build, I will. I know the dredge is the way to go, but they are probably more than I want to spend.

Thanks for the web link. Will study it soon.

Regards,
Jules

Four sticks of white 2" PVC, four 2" PVC elbows. Fill the pipes with sand and use the elbows to make a big square. Now you've got a 10' square section to work. When you are done, pick up one end of the square and flip it over to a new section to work. ;)

I like the idea of knowing exactly where you have and have not been. The thoght of working in zero visibility sounds a lot like work though........

In this senario I would choose a Hookah set up over scuba gear.  If it is only 12 feet deep it would be rather easy to set up a Hookah system to work the area.  Much longer bottom times to work the area and it is cheaper to use this over tanks even with the high fuel costs now a days.

Good luck

NJ

In this senario I would choose a Hookah set up over scuba gear.  If it is only 12 feet deep it would be rather easy to set up a Hookah system to work the area.  Much longer bottom times to work the area and it is cheaper to use this over tanks even with the high fuel costs now a day

also a partner and a safety line need not be said 

In this senario I would choose a Hookah set up over scuba gear. 

Based on my google search, seems Hookahs are far more popular for smoking various leafs than sucking up the bottom of a lake    Adding the word "dredge" iliminates the smoking aspects.

That would help with air tanks/dive times. Still, a unit large enough to suck pure "muck" can't be cheap to rent, OR readily available here in the midwest. I could be wrong though. There must be several uses for the equipment besides finding gold.

Hooka is the way to go.. This site will give you the info you'll need for building a dredge..
http://www.49ermike.com/dc/dcboard....;topic_id=1&mesg_id=1&page=

If you have enough hose you could run it to the shore in  into a basket in shallow water instead of a sluice and floats.. Just keep it as close to, or under the surface a bit.. So all you need is a pump, jet log, hoses and a wire basket to dump into..
                        Ray

Hooka is the way to go.. This site will give you the info you'll need for building a dredge..

If you have enough hose you could run it to the shore in  into a basket in shallow water instead of a sluice and floats.. Just keep it as close to, or under the surface a bit.. So all you need is a pump, jet log, hoses and a wire basket to dump into..
                        Ray

Great Site.......
I'm quickly leaning toward "sucking up the bottom", however my research, thus far (and it's early in the research game), shows all the examples sucking up ROCK bottom. I've yet to come across an example of sucking pure "muck" up. I'm concerned about how much "horse power" it will take to pull this off. I have no idea how deep the targets might be since we didn't find any in our initial attempt. (I know they are there, as the area around the water produced many finds). I'm thinking I might need to do a test dig, and bring up X inches of bottom to see where the sweet spot might be??

Thanks for your response,
Jules

Considering that you may find a pocket full of change and maybe a ring or two, this venture can get upside-down very fast.

You may come home someday and see a letter on the kitchen table addressed to 'Dear Jackoff'.

Have a beer or six and knockoff a parking meter....I mean hunt where there are...

Muck, silt, sand, jewelry, coins, shells, small rocks,  no problem 15' up to about 20' in depth.. 2-3" sized dredge components 3.5-5 hp pump, trash pump possably.. Only thing is larger objects clog the end (actually 1/4, 1/2 smaller at the nozzle than the hose)..

Considering that you may find a pocket full of change and maybe a ring or two, this venture can get upside-down very fast.
You may come home someday and see a letter on the kitchen table addressed to 'Dear Jackoff'.
Have a beer or six and knockoff a parking meter....I mean hunt where there are...

I've already hunted around the parking meter. My wife shoved the coins I dug into it so we wouldn't get a ticket while we were parked there........... 

"upside down" is my middle name. I've never even considered the hobby of MDing as a money making endeavor. As far as my wife thinking I'm insane? It came with the "I do". She's embraced it with an open mind, and now, ring laiden fingers. Guess I'm one of the lucky ones.

Muck, silt, sand, jewelry, coins, shells, small rocks,  no problem 15' up to about 20' in depth.. 2-3" sized dredge components 3.5-5 hp pump, trash pump possably.. Only thing is larger objects clog the end (actually 1/4, 1/2 smaller at the nozzle than the hose)..

You're inspiring, to say the least. I've got til spring to pull this off. I'll get to researching it........
Looking forward to the opportunity to post the outcome.

Thanks again,
Jules

My hunting partner and myself hunted a drained swimming area back around 1980 and the mud was a little over knee deep once we got out past the little channel. We found coins at all depths in that mud. This was a very large swimming area that was spring fed. It has a dam and they drained it to repair the dam. The dam was built back in the 30's and is still in use today. We hunted in all metal mode and I found 22 silver halves there and all of them were on the solid bottom. The mud was so thick that if you got your feet together you would have a rough time getting them apart. The area where the spring ran in was where the channel was and the mud was about waist deep. I thought I would tell you about our experience just to let you know what you might be up against. I hope you can pull it all together and find lots of goodies. If that swimming hole saw a lot of traffic you could do very well. I don't think you will make a fortune but I do believe you will do pretty good. Best of luck to you.

                                         DANGLANGLEY

The mud was so thick that if you got your feet together you would have a rough time getting them apart. The area where the spring ran in was where the channel was and the mud was about waist deep. I thought I would tell you about our experience just to let you know what you might be up against. I hope you can pull it all together and find lots of goodies. If that swimming hole saw a lot of traffic you could do very well. I don't think you will make a fortune but I do believe you will do pretty good. Best of luck to you.

                                         DANGLANGLEY

Thanks for sharing DL,
Sounds like you "earned" your finds!
Our motivation, other than being obsessed with finding treasure  , comes from the fact that it's been on private property since it closed, owned by the same family, a small group of us were the first/only ones in there, and between us all, we found over 600 silvers in the last few years. Nothing old, but silver just the same. My theory is............ if the focal point of the area was the swimming hole, and since the land around it produced as much as it did, what lies at the bottom of that lake?? Specifically where sand was added, and around the diving platform?? Spring can't come quick enough! 

Regards,
Jules

With that many silvers found there's going to be more than you can imagine around that diving board. I thought I had hit the jackpot when we hunted that swimming area. If I remember right I found around $200.00 face value in coins. We did the best around the raft out in the middle. Keep in mind though, this was Big Ridge State park swimming area in Tennessee, and they didn't care if people hunted it back then. I also found 2 class rings and a few other large gold rings. There has to be enough there to let a man retire with people swimming there for about 70 years. They drained it again a while back and they told me they could not let me look on state property.....DANG!!!... I hope you don't give up because it sounds like you have you work cut out for you. I really think you will do very good now that you said how many silvers you found on dry land around the swimming area. Best of luck to you and please keep us posted on your progress.

                                        DANGLANGLEY

Hello,
could you use or have you thought about a rig simular to the vacume style dredges used in gold mining? I have seen them in magazines and adds that are not real expensive. Possibly could make one out of light weight pvc and a waterproof motor simular to one in a shopvac. Just and idea.

Take a probe down to check for depth of mud!!

Cavers5

Hi Folks,
    New here, just lurking around and reading up. Gonna buy a md soon.
 
    Got to thinking over this dillema and wondered if an old(but running) jet ski could be rigged up for the vaccuum/suction of mud. Running the vaccuum hose through a larger container with some sort of screen or diffuser so heavier items would fall out before reaching the ski. (which would have to be anchored down for best results) It goes without saying that this would be tough on the jet pump. Just a wild an errant thought.

    I really am enjoying the site, lots of good info and interesting finds.

                                                               Brent

                                     

Take a probe down to check for depth of mud!!

Cavers5

It's deeeep.
6-10" berfore a stick starts to slow down while pushing, but will still go deeper. A lot of items may be out of our reach. We shall find out come spring.........

Got to thinking over this dillema and wondered if an old(but running) jet ski could be rigged up for the vaccuum/suction of mud. Running the vaccuum hose through a larger container with some sort of screen or diffuser so heavier items would fall out before reaching the ski. (which would have to be anchored down for best results) It goes without saying that this would be tough on the jet pump. Just a wild an errant thought.                                    

Definitely thinking outside the box. That's why I posed the question here. To get a little brainstorming feedback. In this application, I think a jet ski is nothing more than a dredge in a fancy package. So yes, if I had an old one sitting around, I'd consider trying that.
Right now, the biggest unknown variable is how difficult is it going to be to push the muck through a sifter. I have a feeling it's going to have to be done by hand. So for now the plan is, to dredge the bottom and bring it up to a shallow area where one or two of us will push the goo through screened boxes while staying in the water. The lower key/quieter we can keep this project, the more agreeable the land owners will be.......

Pushing the muck thru the sifter sounds like the easy part. Just build a box with you're wire mesh, add some legs so it's near water level, and just pour water over it as you spread you're muck. Definately wear some type of heavy gloves tho...I'll bet there's gonna be some broken glass and bottles in there.

On my job, I use a commercial vac truck. We suck everything from grease to dust, oil and water.
The problem with sucking with anything mechanical that is not specifically designed for deep water is head pressure. Then add the muck which is gonna stick like a sun-of-a- gun in your hose and end up wieghing a ton in you're hose. When we suck deep water, we have to vent the hose with air or it won't pull. You're looking for something like a shallow well pump, but they wont let debrise thru them.
A trash pump sounds like a great idea, but it will mince coins when going thru the turbines.

One option I would think is making yourself some sort of modified post hole digger. If it's 10-12' deep, get some 16' steel tube for your handles and maybe make some sort of modified blades instead of the 4 or 6 inch ones on regular fence posthole diggers. The weight of the steel tubes should help drive it into the muck...only thing would be the width of the handle spread and if you have a boat to handle it.

How far from shore do you need to cast anything? Have you considered the shallower area where all the horse play would take place...horse-backing, chicken, dunking....Sounds like they'd be a easier look. Waist-deep areas seem more of a likely area for the older crowds with rings and such. Old pics of swimming holes I've seen show most of the "classy" people just at waiding level or waist deep parts.
Al

Al,
Some great thoughts and advice. Thanks!
I really think the dredging route is the way to go. I just hope the learning curve isn't too costly, and doesn't take too long.

 Hi,  What you can do for how cheap is probably going to be dictated by the terrain and where the muck (tailings) end up.  It's hard to give a specific solution without some details. Such as: Is there any drop downstream, such as the spill side of a dam. If there's a fair drop, a syphon dredge, info pages at:    http://www.goldfever.com/g_dredge.htm   will 'dredge' for free, but it also depends on the inflow as it'spossible to actually drain a fair sized pond. 
 The muck can have a pretty strong smell when it hits the air, it's temporary and depends on what's in it. You can test this by spreading a a few buckets on a warm day. you'll have consider prevailing winds if it stinks. A 10x10x1' area is a 100 cubic feet of muck that needs to go somewhere, back in the lake or onshore or downstream. You'll have to condider the neighbors if it ends up off property. The DNR if in the stream.
  Suction dredge diagram is at:  http://www.keeneeng.com/      -reclamation dredge link or page. As you see, nothing but water goes through the pump.  As far as being invited back, keeping your area clean and your pump QUIET goes a long way toward harmony.  Hope this helps, Jim  I'm a new guy here, message me if I can be of help, (just surfin' around the site so don't know if I'll be back to your post very soon if you ask here)

The muck is no problem.. When you operate a dredge you don't push the nozzle into the material,.. You hold the nozzle 1/2"- 1" from the surface and the water action  from the suction will break it up.. As far as the silt going through the screen basket it won' need much help as it will be pretty liquefied by the time it reached it..  The only problem would be if its clay which you will have to break up..A dredge pump would work better than a trash pump..Look into a used one.. Then you'll need a suction hose and enough pressure hose to reach the jet log  (or a long lay flat pressure hose as long as the suction hose if you go the suction nozzle route), the jet log, the basket (of whatever size mesh you'll think your finds will be) and stand or floats.. Also if the material is tough the dredge pump have a garden hose fitting  so you can attach a garden hose and garden nozzle to it for helping break up the material.. Just aim it at the suction nozzle so it will suck up the stuff the garden hose breaks up..

The mud was so thick that if you got your feet together you would have a rough time getting them apart. The area where the spring ran in was where the channel was and the mud was about waist deep. I thought I would tell you about our experience just to let you know what you might be up against. I hope you can pull it all together and find lots of goodies. If that swimming hole saw a lot of traffic you could do very well. I don't think you will make a fortune but I do believe you will do pretty good. Best of luck to you.

                                         DANGLANGLEY

Thanks for sharing DL,
Sounds like you "earned" your finds!
Our motivation, other than being obsessed with finding treasure  , comes from the fact that it's been on private property since it closed, owned by the same family, a small group of us were the first/only ones in there, and between us all, we found over 600 silvers in the last few years. Nothing old, but silver just the same. My theory is............ if the focal point of the area was the swimming hole, and since the land around it produced as much as it did, what lies at the bottom of that lake?? Specifically where sand was added, and around the diving platform?? Spring can't come quick enough! 

Regards,
Jules

Hi Jules,I've been looking into a dredge myself.I also have a similar situation with a swimming hole that has been used since the 1800's.I tryed the scuba route,same thing no visability and mucky goo.I know there's at least one diamond ring there and I'm sure some sweet old coins.I did manage to find a ruby brooch before giving up.But I was thinking why wait till spring ! would it be possible to dredge the bottom by cutting a hole in the ice ? I'm realy wantin to go th'ing bad !