Basic signs and symbols you have found

TJ,
     This is a "busy" site.  Here's my markup.  Question:  Are there any mountains or hills in the area referred to as the "stairstep hills" or "stairstep mountains" like they have in eastern OK?  The heights and widths of the steps are not uniform.  I wonder if there is a code for distances and depths hidden there.

Clay, I suppose the "staircase" could represent a book.  That possibility had crossed my mind but I figured it was probably stairs.  Thom, the area is full of latter-day grafitti, names, dates, and initials.  Most of that was put there in the late 1800s and very early 1900s when it was a popular gathering place.  The large initials above the staircase are, I believe, "NA" but there are hundreds of other carvings around the cliff face and so I concentrated on the most intricate ones and those that seemed to be of historical importance such as names of people who played a part in the area's history.  I think the "scratches" are either natural or possibly the result of this large flat rock being chiselled out of the main block for the purpose of carving the intricate muleshoes and stairs.  I say this because when you look at the main rock in the upper left side, it looks like it may have been carved out to make for a flat surface to carve on.  
~Texas Jay    

TJ,
     This is a "busy" site.  Here's my mark-up.  Question:  Are there any mountains or hills in the area referred to as the "stairstep hills" or "stairstep mountains" like they have in eastern OK? 

[ ERROR: SPECIFIED ATTACHMENT MISSING ]

There are several creeks in the area where the carvings are.  Your mark-up seems to emphasize that what I originally thought was another muleshoe may have actually been a "crescent" which was one of the KGC's primary symbols.  I'll have to take a much closer look at all of these features when I next visit the site.  No, there are no mountains or hills in that county or adjoining counties that are referred to as "stairstep" at least that I am aware of.  But it is sure conceivable that, at the time when the carvings were made, the mountains and hills in the area had not yet been named.  I'll look into this possibility also in upcoming days to see if there are any such historical references for the area.  There are many historical references to Spanish mining and other operations in that area of Texas, within 100 miles or so.  Probably the most well-known are the many accounts of what is known as "Jim Bowie's Lost Mine" and the Spanish presidio at Los Almagres.  J. Frank Dobie in "Coronado's Children" first educated me about the Spanish exploration of this area. 
~Texas Jay

Be careful how much trust you put in books Jay,
I have discovered over the years that a lot of "literary liscence" has been used when writing about American History.

Be careful how much trust you put in books Jay,
I have discovered over the years that a lot of "literary liscence" has been used when writing about American History.

Hi Thom.  That is certainly one lesson that I've learned very well in the past 5 years.    
~Texas Jay

It is well known that Mr. Dobie took a whoooooole lot of poetic license when he wrote that book.  It turned out that it is great for entertainment, but NOT for literal treasure hunting history.

And others.

One practical example is the textbook used to teach Western Colorado History.
It states that Fr Escalante was the first Spaniard in Western Colorado.
Escalante came in 1776 looking for a trail to the west coast.

That trail had been used as an alternative trail as a bypass to Santa Fe for more than 100 years by Spanish miners.
The reason Escalante never found it was because he crossed the Gunnisson River. If he had just followed the River he would have found the trail.
His protoge, Fr Dominguez did exactly the same thing.

My partner and I spent 23 years chasing that trail (backtrailing) from Flagstaff AZ. to where it crosses the Gunnisson.
Just for the record the bridge on Colo 141 at Whitewater is exactly where this trail crosses the River.
The trail follows 141 for a long way then turns west and south again until it reaches Flagstaff.
It then continues west and south again until it reaches Baja.
An interesting turn for the books.

Along his journey Escalante trailed up through an established Spanish settlement that he found abandoned to his dismay (he wrote) that was also in western colorado. All the abutments, roads and fortifications are still here.
Historians refuse to acknowledge these things.

Oh well.
Sorry about the short rant.
Knowing gives us an edge over those who rely on books

O.D.
     No rant, just truth. 

One of the best western historians / writers I've found is Glenn Shirley.  He is / was a regular writer for Old West magazine and published many books on western history.  He was possibly the first historian to debunk the "Belle Starr, Bandit Queen" idea.  He showed that it was bs that BS was a gang leader and big, bad bandit.  She was a camp follower who got "turned on" by bad boys.  She was a Motorcycle Mama before motorcycles were invented.    The dime novel writers "invented her" just like they did Wyatt Earp and Buffalo Bill Cody.

Thanks Shortstack,
If you are ever out this way, let me know.
I'll show you stuff that will blow you away.

O.D.
     No rant, just truth. 

One of the best western historians / writers I've found is Glenn Shirley.  He is / was a regular writer for Old West magazine and published many books on western history.  He was possibly the first historian to debunk the "Belle Starr, Bandit Queen" idea.  He showed that it was bs that BS was a gang leader and big, bad bandit.  She was a camp follower who got "turned on" by bad boys.  She was a Motorcycle Mama before motorcycles were invented.    The dime novel writers "invented her" just like they did Wyatt Earp and Buffalo Bill Cody.

a very nice man, he loved to share is knowledge

On February 6, 2002 Glenn and Carrie Shirley attended the unveiling of the portraits of Bill Tilghman and Pistol Pete Eaton painted by Harold Holden in the state Senate chamber in Oklahoma City. This was to be Shirley's last public appearance for on February 27 he died at the age of 85

Guide to the Glenn D. Shirley Western Americana Collection
http://www.nationalcowboymuseum.org...EYCOLLECTION/tabid/355/Default.aspx

Are Shirley's files and papers available for reseach at the Cowboy Hall of Fame or the OK Historical Archives??

I bet they'd be a heck of a source.

maybe trap door with 5 steps down.notch at top is handle?or you have 5 steps to go from here to the end.

I wondered about that as well Brent,
That is something that may have occurred to Jay as well,
He is deep into KGC and the goings on during this time period.

maybe trap door with 5 steps down.notch at top is handle?or you have 5 steps to go from here to the end.

Hi hadji009.  I have spent a lot of time thinking about possible meanings to the stairs carving.  Yours is one more good one that needs to be considered.  While my partner and I have closely searched around this cliff, we've not yet found anything in the layout that could be represented by this carving.  Who knows?  Those steps could represent actual steps that have been carved into one of the mountains in the area and the notch could represent a "safe entrance" to the treasure.  We are working on gaining permission from other landowners to search some of the property in the area where the answers may be found.  We also have received a lot of information from trustworthy friends in the area that may help us narrow down our search but it will still involve a tremendous amount of exploring and work and may take us several years.  One friend, who has been very helpful and who is very knowledgeable about the history of the area, told us that one huge treasure was recovered within 75 miles of these signs several years ago so, for all we know, these signs may point to a treasure that has already been recovered but the search will still be worth the effort to me.  This friend told me that the treasure was hauled away in three heavy-duty Ryder trucks and gave some more details that I cannot share at this time.  Thank you all for your assistance and I hope you will keep posting your ideas as they come to you about these signs.  In March, I will be going to another site where there are many tree carvings and man-shaped trees.  We've already photographed some of them but have many more that we need to photograph.  When we get the next set, I will post some of them here that may interest you.  Right now, however, I'm going to take my detector out and do some coinshooting as it is a beautiful, sunny day here in central Texas.   
~Texas Jay

Are Shirley's files and papers available for reseach at the Cowboy Hall of Fame or the OK Historical Archives??

I bet they'd be a heck of a source.

i think so, most of the pgs say a lot of his collection has not been completely
processed yet, if your close to OK, i think it would be worth the visit


Restrictions on Access
Only those series or portions thereof, that have been processed and finding aids created, are open for research. It is advised researchers discuss their research prior to visiting the Center.

Preferred Citation
Glenn D. Shirley Western Americana Collection, Box ##, Folder ##, Dickinson Research Center, National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum, Oklahoma City, OK.

http://www.nationalcowboymuseum.org...CTION/tabid/355/Default.aspx#access


Address:

Donald C. & Elizabeth M. Dickinson Research Center
National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum
1700 NE 63rd Street
Oklahoma City, OK 73111

http://www.nationalcowboymuseum.org...About/Contact/tabid/62/Default.aspx

I would sure hope that the Cowboy Hall of Fame has better security now than what they had in the mid to late 1990s.  That place was built in one of the worse sections of OKC, but guess that stays in sync with where the OK State Archives and Museum is located.

Ladies & Gentlemen.   Here is another view of the cave map..  that is my friend taking a picture of it|

Don Jse de La Mancha

hio, Find the Sun that I mentioned, and I will post the edited Treasure  map with it.

Don Jose de La Mancha

OK, Don Jose:
   How close are these markups?

Here is my Guess.
-Weekender

I may be wrong, but since you destroyed that site, and ADMITTED to destroying it;
 I wouldn't think anyone will help you. 

There are many references to this through out this thread,
I am sorry to say we can't help solve a trail of markers if the markers have been moved.

As I have said many times ...
"Moving a marker will inevitably turn a hidden treasure into a lost one."

Very sorry, I can't help.
Thom

Has anyone run across a carving of an elephants head with trunk and tusk?

I may be wrong, but since you destroyed that site, and ADMITTED to destroying it;
 I wouldn't think anyone will help you. 

Who else here has removed 'rocks' in order to cut other people from the trail?  Leaving such small markers is an eventual advertisement for others to 'come and get it'.  Doesn't withholding information, as to a site's whereabouts, accomplish the same thing as removing a sign or covering it up?  Maybe I don't WANT anyone else on that trail until I can get back to it.  Maybe, I will put them back if my leads pan out.  Maybe I won't. 

No one destoyed anything.  I simply modified it for my convenience.  The rocks in the picture are safely in my protective custody and are being well cared for and recieve adequate medical attention when needed.  They EVEN get to write letters home.  I know exactly where they belong. 

Anyway, the longer they are in my possession the longer they will last.  I have exact photos of where they belong.  When I have no further use for them, I MIGHT put them back.

Here is one I did not 'modify' so, no one can be made at me over it.  Nanni nanni boo boo.  Found in Bakersfield, TX.  One mile from the nearest dwelling and several miles from the NEXT nearest dwelling.



Found the above rock about 20 feet or so from this guy.

If you will go to the first page of this thread and begin reading all of the posts, in order, you will begin to understand the importance of leaving signs and markers IN PLACE and not disturbing them.  They may or may not be leads to treasure, but they ARE bits of history.  Would you remove the stones from a medicine wheel?

I am a novice at treasure signs and marks, but I have a serious respect for history and from reading the postings of Old Dog, rangler, feather, Desertmoons, and several others;  they do, too.  They have a respect for history while performing their searches.  In addition, moving marker rocks will destroy their "record".  You can never get them back to their original positions.  Any compass heading indicators have been displaced.  Have you any idea how far off a compass reading will be in 5 miles if you change the base marker by 1 degree?

rrazrr:

     Welcome to the forum.

What part of the country are you located?  There has been one individual who posted a find of an elephant head, but I'll let that person post about it if they want to re-post.  That person removed the post for security reasons, so I will not say "who or where".

If you'll say what part of the country you are interested in, someone knowledgeable may post a comment. 

Good luck.

I'm in SE AZ but am working on one in OK.

If you will go to the first page of this thread and begin reading all of the posts, in order, you will begin to understand the importance of leaving signs and markers IN PLACE and not disturbing them.  They may or may not be leads to treasure, but they ARE bits of history.  Would you remove the stones from a medicine wheel?

I am a novice at treasure signs and marks, but I have a serious respect for history and from reading the postings of Old Dog, rangler, feather, Desertmoons, and several others;  they do, too.  They have a respect for history while performing their searches.  In addition, moving marker rocks will destroy their "record".  You can never get them back to their original positions.  Any compass heading indicators have been displaced.  Have you any idea how far off a compass reading will be in 5 miles if you change the base marker by 1 degree?

Yes I am aware of how far off that would be generally.  Let me just say for the record.  I just thought of some kind of marker.  It never occured to me that it might be a treasure marker.  As I stated in the first opening, I know nothing of signs.  Also, as stated, there is a road six feet to the right.  They could have been put there by a bored construction worker some odd years ago. 

However.  All is not lost.  I have never researched treasure in that area and never given it a second thought until this day.  At least the pieces of the puzzle are still safe and there is photographic evidence of how they were arranged.  Consider how un-exact finding treasures are to begin with.

But, thanks for your input.

I'm in SE AZ but am working on one in OK.

Two excellent places, for sure.  There are some folks here who are highly knowledgeable about both states and might respond.      If they don't,  don't take it personally.  If they don't know you, they may wait to get an idea of how you think before getting into discussions.  You are a new member, so be aware that there are negative-mongers here who are not what they seem.  So read all of the posts in all of the Treasure Signs and Markers threads and you will soon see the "real" folks and the negative people.  You'll also get to recognize the trustworthy folks. 

I'm in SE AZ but am working on one in OK.

Two excellent places, for sure.  There are some folks here who are highly knowledgeable about both states and might respond.      If they don't,  don't take it personally.  If they don't know you, they may wait to get an idea of how you think before getting into discussions.  You are a new member, so be aware that there are negative-mongers here who are not what they seem.  So read all of the posts in all of the Treasure Signs and Markers threads and you will soon see the "real" folks and the negative people.  You'll also get to recognize the trustworthy folks. 

I agree.  I advise taking not anything you find.  If had seen this post a couple of years ago or known anything of signs, I wouldn't have made 'adjustments' to the scene.  Live and learn. 

Welcome to TNET rrazrr.  Hope you find what you are looking for.  I love Oklahoma.  I have a buddy that lives Rattan and few in other towns.

Thanks Shortstack.  Been chasing it in AZ for about 30 years so won't get sucked in by fools.  Know a bit as have followed turtle to 1711 cache here in AZ.  Have just never seen elephant head and haven't been able to find out anything about it.  Am not interested where anyone else is looking, have enough to keep me busy forever.  But am more than willing to share acquired knowledge with serious people.

Thanks Blind.In.Texas.  I hope I find it too.  I think we're close.  Found 2 different site rocks a mile apart on mountain otps, they triangulate to an unmarked area, then ran into this elephant head next to devils face warning of right hand booby trap.

Thanks Shortstack.  Been chasing it in AZ for about 30 years so won't get sucked in by fools.  Know a bit as have followed turtle to 1711 cache here in AZ.  Have just never seen elephant head and haven't been able to find out anything about it.  Am not interested where anyone else is looking, have enough to keep me busy forever.  But am more than willing to share acquired knowledge with serious people.

Excellent.  
To expand a little on my previous post;  that elephant head that was found is not anywhere close to the 2 places you're interested in.  

I was stationed at Luke AFB twice, many moons ago and love the Phoenix Valley.  Have you done any exploring in the Mongollon Rim area?  (I probably misspelled that big time. )  

I haven't been able to get out of se az and sw nm to even try and get to the rim country.  wouldn't have ever hit ok, but, my brother lives there and found some sign and off I went.  2 years later..

razzr

I've found oh...9 or 10 elephants or elephant heads. Never noticed tusks on them, but I will look through my pics and give you an im in next few days. Maybe post here.

If yours is sick looking or looks like in distress *for any reason*, please be very careful about what you do next.

Generally I take them as good signs. Tusks though..perhaps used as a distance counter?

I have also found These heads and can tell you that you are at a large Treasure site it will be close by the head.

Minetres

Thanks guys.  The trunk and tusk almost meet at the bottom of carving.  I'm inclined to think it may mark the site. 

rrazrr,
Welcome to the forum.
Sure would like to see some pictures of your elephant.
DM has posted several good ones.

Do your self a favor and take a two box over the area.
Save yourself a bit of unnecessary digging.

I have never used or heard of an elephant used as a dig here marker.
Here are some words from Dsty about such things.

 

It is my opinion that a elephant carries a big load for a long distance, a eagle can see features a long ways off, a turtle head sicking out of the ground = something placed in the ground may be 1/2 mile off or more, a owl carved they can see good at night or dim light= look for shadow figures nearby, lizard = look under a rock, that's just my opinion, nothing complicated, snake danger, deer tracks = safe trail, deer tracks with dew claws = danger,    

Here is a pic..sorry about quality.  These carvings are over 20 ft in height carved on a cliff face over a high ledge.  They can only be seen early afternoon..Nice sun/shadow signs I think.

With apologies,  I had to reduce the size a little bit.  My eyes were watering.    The guy on the right stands out pretty good.  I can't quite put the left figure together.......yet.
Ahhhhh.  Is that left figure your elephant?  Looks like three hanging down thingies.  (please excuse my technical jargen)
I redid the photo and kept hitting the sharpen image thing in Photoshop and got this second
image.  It'a a little bit sharper.

i will have what these two r on in a six pack! great pictures!

It looks like something you would find on a kiss album. It's hard to make anything out of that pic but looks
  like a lot going on in that pic.

Question on the Spanish symbol G. I know it represents gold,but was it mainly used at a site or more of a
trail marker. Lot of catching up to do, sure did miss all the new posts.

The "G" was the 7th letter
used ommonly in place of the number 7.
Marked a camp.
Or a place to camp.

SUN ME UP.

On the pic of TexasJay's that OldDog marked an RR symbol..I ran across the same RR here in AZ.  In my case it designated Royal Reales...I can tell you that in fact there were those in that cache..Makes me drool looking at the pic of steps, etc...Good Luck TJ !

rrazrr,
   I marked up your picture with the pig's head and the devil's head that I THINK I see.  I'm not real good with that Paint drawing pencil, though. 
    What do ya think?

welll...the face to the right I see is a quarter turn farther right than yours but I see yours now too.  Look at the single piece that comes to left side of head on main face...same is on r side.  2 faces or maybe I'm missing something altogether.  Sure wouldn't be the first time.

Well, a lot will depend on getting a sharper image.  Hurry, hurry, hurry.       Please post more pics of this site.  It definitely looks "busy".

Farr out man  on that elephant pic.  Heh...you know I've never seen an elephant with out at least one ear.  My eye was drawn to that squarish block on the left though!

The pics are a little too cloudy and nebulous for me (quit laughing everyone.)  Here are some examples of elephants and  figures with one or more long appendage aspect to them.Remember I do see a lot of stuff that perhaps is not really there.

First elephants

 


You will find them in different poses. This guy is trumpeting or perhaps showering himself with water.


 


Sometimes not so well done, yet you can tell what it is right off the bat.

 

The next are ones with appendages or for some reason remind me of an elephant.

This is rather...hidden.

 

This has a long appendage. If an elephant it is definitely sick or dead. I would take that to mean danger..or maybe even something poisonous! Err.my own idea on this only. Not sure it is an elephant at all.

 


Another appendaged figure.

 

This would be a a different kind of elephant..if it is one. side profile full body.


 

This has lots of danglies. Not sure what it is!
 

So... in conclusion, you will find long trunked figures and carvings both in profile and frontal views. Not shown the carvings.  I take elephants themselves to be good signs. If they are sick looking or in anguish (not shown here)  I take them to mean watch out, be careful along with associated meanings.


Happy hunting! Hope this helps folks.

Desertmoons,

    There are 2 lazy or dead elephants.






And an elephant being attacked by a monster.



And an elephant with a shadow trunk.





I THINK!!  LOL.

Here is an elephant trunk with pointer. I am sorry that I don't have a picture at a forward angle. We saw this one day while sitting down eating. I thought that the Jesuites might have leaving us a message ( The Finger ). This does tend to mess with ones ego. Thanks in advance for any comments, RockHopper.

Great geoform RH,
Don't let guys from the past get your goat ...
Your being able to see this stuff gives you the chance to out think em.

Best to be able to do it too.

Keeps you alive.

elephant is sniffing air behind him?

Hehehe rockhopper your comment and pic made me smile.

Looks like some possible carving it might be pointing up and back at. But i sure like that "sniffing air " idea.


Shiortstack thanks! The monster eating the elephant pic might give a clue as to what elephants could mean. Time to hit the books?

Best Regards
DM

Say DM,

Here's a couple of ideas for that monster rock.

--a Toltec head
--a Mayan Death Mask

Or it might be someone's idea of a devil's head.     It's pretty interesting though.

How does that elephant with the shadow trunk strike you?

Hello all,

Not meaning to jump in the middle of the elephant stuff... Which is wonderful, by the way. I was out yesterday and found what I thought to be a monument and I am having trouble ID'ing it. I think it is a "crown". And based on it's position, a shadow marker for the draw below it as well. Any thoughts?

Clay

Clay,

Is one set of trail stumps leading to or away from this?
If so it is a Spanish creation to give a focal point in a trail ahead.
Notice that it looks like a pack as seen on the back of a horse or mule.
this could be a thing Spanish hunters nicknamed a "packmule"

I dont know if there are stumps or other markers yet. This is on the way into the area I have been working and we having made it out to this point yet. This would be about two miles from the drill hole area, but it has caught my eye everytime.

The photo of the rock included below belongs to the cache site I have been working. Approx. 80ft up from the other cache and 100 ft from the back of the duck. Notice the bottom right edge had been cut to allow for it to stand upright. All of the colorations are different types of moss/fungus and there is a small gap large enough to barely slide your arm in behind it. This has me befuddled as well. It may be a bell or a "look here" something.

Additionally, we found a Hoyo under the ducks head. I've included a photo of that as well. This cache site appears to have three separate caches, along a line. All 80ft or so apart. The triangle thingy at the top, the exposed cache in the middle and the one shown in the Hoyo picture.

None of the spots show traditional danger signs or symbols that I can see, but I am taking my time to evaluate the area before I start moving things around. For example, the triangle is twice my size and located on the edge of a 20 foot drop.

We also found in another separate area, a campsite, the entrance to underground caverns and the entrance to a cave. It's been a very busy weekend.

Clay

Stumps.... We found another line of stumps leading straight up to this area, but I will share more on that elsewhere.

Clay

Definite Spanish influence.
7 marks a campsite,
the profile looks at a point of interest, maybe the camp.

Clay, what is that symbol on bottom left?
Also, the other red arrow looks like a snake with mouth open,
like it's ready to bite if you put your hand in there.
Could that be a rock heart the snake is looking at?
-Weekender

All of the rocks behind it appear to be helping to prop the big rock upright. I was able to stick my arm in behind a little ways. I didn't see much.

Clay

what is the shape of hoyo?

Roughly a right triangle with the long angle on the upper right, with a rock sticking up out of the right angle.  The photo doesn't show it very well because I had the camera too close in hopes of looking through it.

Clay,
Looks like a triangle to me.

okey dokey

Good evening my friends  bk from my travels for a bit.

On the cave map, yes, the triangles are a  primitive method of conturing,  see accompanying photos for the general region.  How else to draw it?

The crosses are for a bearing,

The flower symbols are deposits, in accordance with size.

The birds, their facing and positions have a  definite meaning

The white marks are from a prior very old Indian markings, they are covered by the Jesuit's  map.

Go from there.

Don Jose d eLa Mancha

Clay,
    How about this black triangle inside of the hoya pointing at the shadow "M"?

I never noticed the black triangle before... Thanks. I just used the ol' Army "center-of-mass" technique. The space for standing was limited, so the "sight picture" was perfect for my girlfriend who is 5'5". She confirmed the target for me.

Clay

Hey, Clay, you mentioned above ," All of the rocks behind it appear to be helping to prop the big rock upright. I was able to stick my arm in behind a little ways. I didn't see much."

I wonder if that rock was allowed to tilt over, would there be some hidden symbols underneath or perhaps a cache under it?  I'm not suggesting destroying the sight.  Is there any way the rock could be easily tilted over enough to check for hidden symbols?  Maybe dig out from underneath a little bit and insert a camera to check for marks?  Just a WAG.   

Don Jose,
     That is some SERIOUSLY rugged country you were flying over.  How would those early miners operate in such country?  Unless they were working solely in the deep canyons.

All great information guys... I'm taking notes so I can check when I go back. Thank you.

Clay

Clay, bring limb trimmers next time, looks like some goodies on the rock behind hoyo. thanks for your post we all learn something every day. RH2.

I'll do what I can when I get back out there. The terrain is tremendously steep and sandy. This hillside is loaded with decomposed granite and has a rise:run of 3.5:1. The part of the tree visible in the hoyo is at about the 10'-12' level on the tree. Hiking this little trail has been challenging. The rocky outcrop seen in these photos extends between 300-400 ft. It took us four and a half hours to safely navigate and study that short distance. If it weren't for the stumps and the duck, I wouldn't have chosen to come back to this area because of the "not fun" level.

Clay

Clay, My son and I have a couple of sites that are real tough to get to, then it goes almost straight up. The signs are there and like you we post what we can and ask questions, lots of them. I am very  grateful to the people on this site that take time to help all of us. RH2.

I second that... I have met some really outstanding people here. I just hope to be able to do for them what they have done for me....

Clay

Me Too! RH2

HI regarding the Sun on  the actual stylized treasure map, I am including the upper part with the Sun.  Remember the angle of the view is slightly different between the map and the actual view.  the second demonstrates how easy it is to cut though colored over lays with color separation.

I am also including the basic picture split into the three primary colors in order to show what  old dog has been talking about.  Each shows a different aspect, yet the true sun marker remains the same, while eliminating the other possible points..  You can then reverse everything for an enhanced view.

As you see, the Sun is almost exactly where it is supposed to be.

Hadj, weekender, and short stack, you did good, close but ---so I will send you a coin from Tayopa when I open the deposit.

Don Jose de La Mancha

Hi my friends, very interesting posts. Keep them rolling.

Short stack posted -->How would those early miners operate in such country?  Unless they were working solely in the deep canyons.*
***************
First the Indian lives were not a considersation.  If one died, just go grab another, free for the taking.  As for access in the cliffs  etc. they bored holes in the cliff wall, then inserted hardwood poles, bridged the poles with smaller poles or branches, then grasses and dirt if animals were to use it.

The remains of some still exist in the remote sierras. SCARY !

Don Jose de La Mancha

Hola Amigo,
This area I have circled looks pretty good in my estimation.
I have watched the pictures as they progressed through the thread.
It seems to be the one place I am always drawn back to.
I am probably quite wrong But it is my shot.

Glad your travels bring you home safe old friend,

Thom

Don Jose said: As for access in the cliffs  etc. they bored holes in the cliff wall, then inserted hardwood poles, bridged the poles with smaller poles or branches, then grasses and dirt if animals were to use it.


That's one of those slap-the-forehead points.  NOW it makes sense.    And it shows an excellent "outside the box" thinking and thank you for explaining that.  That is another BIG bit of information to file away in the old knowledge bank.   

Don Jose have been following your pics, ive not seen the SUN sign
but i do see the heart, so the SUN sign, cant be to far away
in my second pic, what are these that i marked

Now that is some rough country. The one section looks like a funnel shape...maybe a volcanic vent I would sure want to check that out! This is the kind of area no one else but the most dedicated would explore/propsect! Get in there! Can you share what mountain range or state?

Good evening my Friends.  Back from a 3 day trip.  You have all shown excellent work, but unforutunately have not shown the sun's location, but came very close. See posted photo. 

They formed it by simply scraping the top soil off of the bedrock some 200 ft in diameter with the ring being about 25 ft.  Still effectively no new soil cover, but it is now covered by spreading plant growth,.  This is why the color separation tech is so effective.

As for Curtis' question the ridge is the separation between Sonora and Chihuahua.  The precise location by Lat & Long if wanted.  The view point is from above Tayopa. Not exactly the same as on the map.

I have another one from southern Chihuahua that is cut on the cliff, maybe 30 ft in diameter surrounded by stars.  They had to be suspended by  rope some 100 ft to do it.  If I can find it, I will post it.  It is above a very large cave with a large treasure inside.  Still there for many reasons including a Tarahuma family and their herd of goats living inside of it.  They won't talk of treasures, they are afraid of distrubing them.
It can wait.

Don Jose de La Mancha

but came very close.

Don Jose, I'm reeeeeal glad it wasn't a handgranade!   

I would suspect that one of the big problems you face in your adventures there are the superstitions many locals live with.  The need to respect them must get a little bit exasperating sometimes, but........very important, too.     Having the patience (and trustworthiness) of Job will be returned to you many fold, eventually. 

I'd sure like to read you book when you get it done.

what is this sign?

 

It is above a very large cave with a large treasure inside.  Still there for many reasons including a Tarahuma family and their herd of goats living inside of it.  They won't talk of treasures, they are afraid of distrubing them.
It can wait.

Don Jose,
It becomes quite evedent why these folks love you.

While hunting up a picture I ran across this picture.
The space is about twenty feet deep and this sits at the bottom.
I can only see part of the bottom
But it seems to be pretty protected as the mice haven't even tried for this one.

That untouched ear of corn and the triangular rock give kind of a conflicting "statement", don't they?  The rock says, " come in and go that way." And the ear of corn says, "Uh-uuuuuuuuah, don't DO it." 

Excellent "read" OD. 

 That's hungry country . If the critters don't want to get what is in plain camera veiw I don't think I want to go there , either .

do any cloud watchers see anything in this photo? thanks brent

hadji009,
   There seems to be an upside down heart in the upper right section of the photo.  At the 5 o'clock position from the right triangle shaped hole.   I think I missed that the first time around. 

Notice the skull shaped stone.
as well as the triangle.
ad the corn combined.


Treasure ahead !!!
This is a Spanish sign of huge dimensions.

Please pardon my scribbles.

i can bring diggn tools! brent

I have seen the city utility workers run a camera about 50+ feet into the sewer line to discover a collapsed line......sounds like the right tool for the job in the pic of OLD DOG's.

You can see down there (barely)
This is between a cliff face and several very large rocks.
The rocks are so big that they are as tall as the cliff face.
The markers were dropped in by the Spanish after the corn.
The corn may have been there for a couple hundred years before they got there.
We are always finding corn cobs here.
The hole is between the cliff face and another piece of rock, they are about a foot apart.

I have pics of a couple substantial maps (99% sure they're Spanish) from the desert southwest (Utah) that i would like to share and get thoughts.

Question:  How do you do the picture - negative - thingie you guys do?

Mannings,
I sent a PM

what is the corn cob supposed to represent? thanks brent