Basic signs and symbols you have found

When we found a couple of these type things on our trails,
we found that they were where a pre set up occurred.
We have several "planning " setups were worked out.
you may find a place down the trail a bit that looks similar to what you see here in miniature, as life size.
When you realise that the set up was a site map for the constructors, it will become more clear.

it will be an interesting revelation.
and a fun discovery.
When the details jump out at you and life comes into the site everything seems to change in front of you.
even colors seem to become more defined.
Let me know when you find it.

Thom

Earlier on this form I posted some picks of a stone calf any clues.

Earlier on this form I posted some picks of a stone calf any clues.

Lanny,
I am still not sure it is a calf as much as it could be a lamb.

I am still not sure it is a calf as much as it could be a lamb.

Ooh, good call, i was pretty sure that wasnt a calf, ears being way too small and all.  just couldnt place the shape tho

Wow.. a lot of pictures to catch up on and study and i am slow.

Lonny... besides the obvious potential carvings on the large upright...these other areas caught my eye as potential carvings..


 

Thanks lonny and Thom.

Yes it does help.   Just trying to see what purpose that formation might have as I  think it is at the location of a site. A site already recovered long ago for sure.

Here is an out of scale map. There is a small creek. The cross rocks are on the bank of  the dry creek, at the foot of a hill where i think  something used to be.


The site interests me because there are 3 rock chutes, and behind them what looks like a nice staging area with appropriate boulders/rocks etc. Some of them flat, some of them if you stood on them you would be at a nice height to strap on packs to mules and related things... and some...signs.

Don't know what it is all about...but one theory is that the weighing or counting or whatever went on in the staging area.
The rock chutes...(pairs of slabs or boulders that create a short narrow  walkway) would be  to organize the labor. One for carrying out the dirt, as it was dug, another for the return trip and the third not sure.
If that theory is correct..well the ones heading in would see the cross rocks each trip.

The cross rocks might even have been a little shrine with a statue on it when it was all in operation.

i just was not sure if the cross or crosses were carved or not. And lanny...when next i get out that way i will look more closely at the things you have highlighted.

Thanks
Kim
 





.

I have seen a few places were some one mentioned a lamb. Does a lamb have a special meaning.

I have seen a few places were some one mentioned a lamb. Does a lamb have a special meaning.

Makes a special reference to the lamb of God.
find Bible verses that reference "The Lamb Of God"
and you will start to understand just how these sites were set up.
A King James Version works fine.
Using the new testament .

Kim,
So glad to see you back at it.
At best I have learned not to "over think" these things.
just try to think it out the way they did.
Not nearly as hard as I try to make it most of the time
and a lot more fun.

LOL
Thom

Kim,
Here is one of ours.
I can post this staging or set up area. where the actual site was planned.
We are still chasing this site so are unable to give any part as an example.
but it is a lifesize version of this collection of stuff.

[personally]

Kim,
Here is one of ours.
I can post this staging or set up area. where the actual site was planned.
We are still chasing this site so are unable to give any part as an example.
but it is a lifesize version of this collection of stuff.

Since there is no reference point, i cant tell how large these rocks are, however, they all look small enough to be shifted or moved in the event of torrential rains.  iv seen runoff water move some big izass stones.  personally i put no credence into markers that for all intents and purposes are not permanently affixed.  nothing like following a pointer that was jared when the deer that was attempting to outrun the mountain lion dared a glance back and ran headlong into it shifting its direction by a couple 10 or 20 degrees.  basicly if i can  move it so could an animal, nature, or a surveyer.  

Correct,
Each of these is movable (with some effort).
They were placed to plan the placement of much larger stones.
It becomes the blueprint in a sense to the actual site itself.

Correct,
Each of these is movable (with some effort).
They were placed to plan the placement of much larger stones.
It becomes the blueprint in a sense to the actual site itself.

ok, im assuming that the triangular stone at the bottom of the picture is purposely included as part of the whole deal. it appears to be no larger than 12 inches give or take on a side.  the sand accumulated behind it tells me that it is pointing uphill in an area where runoff regularly occurs. if its considerably larger than that, then its a moot point.  the whole planning aspect is fascinating tho, especially if/when you find the corresponding site

Correct,
Each of these is movable (with some effort).
They were placed to plan the placement of much larger stones.
It becomes the blueprint in a sense to the actual site itself.

ok, im assuming that the triangular stone at the bottom of the picture is purposely included as part of the whole deal. it appears to be no larger than 12 inches give or take on a side.  the sand accumulated behind it tells me that it is pointing uphill in an area where runoff regularly occurs. if its considerably larger than that, then its a moot point.  the whole planning aspect is fascinating tho, especially if/when you find the corresponding site

Correct again.
That is why the picture is so very tight.
So it doesn't give away the site location 250 yards to the left.

The point is that it wouldn't matter if these stones move after the site set up is complete.
They were of no more use anyway.
This picture is on top of a mesa with the capstone as the surface these stones were on.
there isn't too much water that hits or stays for long.

The point is that it wouldn't matter if these stones move after the site set up is complete.
They were of no more use anyway.

 :thumbsup:Ok, im with ya now.  i was thinking you were attempting to use the geometry of stone placement to try to locate the end result oblivious to the fact that they may not remain in their intended positions.

Never will mislead you on purpose Buddy.

Just doesn't make much sense to give bad info.

LOL
as I said we have found several of these and they survive remarkably well.
all that we have seen are on a solid bedrock type surface,
and the stones are big enough that any runoff they encounter is not enough to cause movement.

Never will mislead you on purpose Buddy.

Just doesn't make much sense to give bad info.

LOL
as I said we have found several of these and they survive remarkably well.
all that we have seen are on a solid bedrock type surface,
and the stones are big enough that any runoff they encounter is not enough to cause movement.

no, didnt mean that, i just misunderstood what you were explaining.  i was trying to covertly talk some sense into you without sounding like a couple others round here.  i get it now, my bad

It is obvious that some of the set up stones in my earlier photo have moved.
after some looking I found a shot of the site that is not revealing in any way so I will show the site from a distance and let you see how it was fortified and set up as a camp and lookout station for Spanish as they traveled through.

There is much more here than pictured, but at this time this is all I will show.

nice faces on the right, would love to go trail hunting with you this place looks great!

OD, last pic is AWESOME! 

CT  !!
Welcome back to this thread.
I like that picture too.

  OD!!

  I don't see the Latrine!!  HA!   Yes!  Yes!   I agree, Great Pictures!  Thanks OD    td

stunning picture worthy of a calender or postcard. 

This thread will give you a lot of semi decent photography.
dealing with where I live.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,144286.0.html

very nice, i love quality landscape photography.  especially when you dont have to play wheres waldo with the photo, just look and enjoy.

I truly live in a spectacular place,
I am pleased I could share.

CT  !!
Welcome back to this thread.
I like that picture too.

lol, I never really left my friend.  Just sort of lurking and reading.  Sometimes the incredible and distracting BS that comes with these great threads drives me nuts.  I need to take a breather before I do something stupid.  I can't let other peoples antagonistic ways get me banne or in trouble or whatever.  lol

Please keep sharing and explaining what you can.  I for one appreciate the time and effort of sharing.

I am slow... lately but am catching up.

Lanny I am no expert. But on that lamb/calf

Could it be that pie shaped rock is important?

And maybe the measurement or direction, if there is one.would be the layed back ears, or  if an angle is created by them..maybe that angle is the thing to look at.



Also i was rather curious - the lower rock that looks folded back...this is what you consider a duck? Or do i have the pics confused. I've seen a hew of those myself in my travels.

Thom thank you for posting that staging site. Makes me rethink something I thought of as a road sign area. I wonder if anyone ever finds very small staging areas. Like..  arrangement or circle maybe 2-4 feet in diameter made of vartious stones and rocks of various sizes colors shapes and it is not a fire circle.

The  fortification is awesome too.

Kim,
My partner and I once found two very large stacked stones,
The top one looked funny from a distance so we investigated.
The top stone had been carved out inside and on both ends to the exact shape of the canyon we were climbing in.
There was inside a series of stones laid across the inside,
that were exactly imitating huge boulders that are set in the bottom of the canyon.
To this day we think we found someone's map of that part of the canyon.

The attention to detail was astounding.

Thom

Here is a pic a took 10 years ago,I have not been back since.For give the hand I'm trying to block out
the sun,I'm looking up the cliff to find the best way up.Notice the skull in middle,demon right hand,the king
white figure sitting down on his thrown.there are a lot more #and faces on this pic in joy.   

lanny,

I don't see anything in your picture that is clear enough to say yes or no.
I would say a cool looking cliff face, but I need to see a clear picture.
Sorry.

Hi Thom..

Here is another.. Sorry it is not the best picture. Do you  see one of your shouldered like death traps rocks in this pic?

Thanks as always!

Kim,

Have you been all the way around this pile?

May I suggest you take pictures of it from all sides,
this certainly looks like something stacked to be something.
Most of the time a monument will only show from a specific angle.
To tell the truth I cannot confirm a death trap without seeing it up close.
The stacked things are usually treacherous looking until you see what they put there to look at.
Once you find it...
all thoughts of taking it apart are dispensed with.

Personally, if it was a DT, the vault area in this picture has been empty for a long time.
What I see in your picture is pretty inert looking.

Kim,
After a further look I seriously think you should go and look some more at this one.
This was stacked to mark something.
If for nothing more than educational value. LOL.

The last look has a purple circle,
Is this a small turtle?
Or is it something else?
Your call

Hi Thom

oh....the small turtle is what i thought might be the shouldered death trap sign.  I've got a feeling ..... there is an empty hole around there some place right close. My guess would be below the jagged rock and as you can see it is already uncovered and empty.

Its really.... strange. I've tracking things for about 8 months and maybe just maybe getting a better feeling for things.


I was looking through pics once gain and this hit me like a thunderbolt.

Perhaps there is nothing there...but the above pic is behind the below major formation hehe Here  are some the things i''ve noticed.

I suspect looking through the hoyo will aim at the jagged hole in the original picture.

 The  little formation of stacked  rock to the left of that reminds me of a jesuit or vault marker symbol i saw out on the net.

The flat  little oval  carved on a boulder toward the right..I call a shmoo...not sure why...but thats what came to me.  I've seen those around other suspected empty holes.

The shadow 3 maybe be a shadow 7  or have soem other meaning...but the key thing is it was made to be seen i think.

Then i see a heart, a possible elephant and some other stuff

I  love how people mark up their pics..so i've marked these up too.

The orginal picture above is right behind the main formation.

 

Here it is marked.

 



Perhaps others might notice the elephantine like creature with a box on its head.
 

Well... in case anyone forgot.. I am no expert! And you need to draw own conclusions.

Hi DesertMoons

I normally don't do this...  
But because of my Pareidolia  tendencies
I found these rocks very interesting

It looks to me that you are at a campsite - mite be Royal
What I am curious about is what is the mans nose pointing to
Is there a small removable rock near by - mite be a safe
or he mite be pointing out the next marker to continue the royal trail

Lost Horse

Thank you lost.

Pareidolia is only pareidolia if it does not work


I think there is a good chance this is a site of sorts..  There are a  some indications others have been here before. I do not expect to find anything intact. However the educational value  is what is intriguing.

I  do not know when i will get back to check out this particular site. I've been running nilly willy for months in my Spanish monument wonderlands....hence my signature...and decided - one trail at a time. For now will follow up on the eagle formation trail under rattle snake hill.

Here is the padre, looking over the area.




Then there this. Thom has mentioned John sites before  in some thread. To me, this looks like a basic eagle along with other signs.






The  original formation of interest is to the left out of the picture.

Kim,
There is an owl hidden right on your eagle here.
It defies detection so I scribbled it in for you.
Great stuff.

Dear desertmoons;
Re: the photos which you posted on 14 May 2009. The *rock formations* are not natural occurrences, rather, what you've stumbled upon are the remains of very badly erroded adobe structure. No matter what these *treasure experts* may tell you, they are in fact the remnants of adobe bricks. Please be cautious around them as we do not want to be digging or poking around any structures which may have some historical significance attached to them, lest we give the archies and historians more ammo against us. Perhaps using a metal detector around the stucture's remains would be OK if done judiciously and all holes were backfilled, however it would adviasble to check with your local laws before proceeding to explore with an MD.
Your friend;
LAMAR

Lamar,
I am sorry to inform you that decomposing granite is not what adobe is made from.
Please look twice before making assumptions about things.

They are  defintely not adobe nor part of a structure per se. The context would prove that.
And thank you for the....word of warning.


However the farthest thing from my mind is defacing  anything i have found in anyway.

It is history even if not currently recognized as of historic value.


What i do take from sites.... is photographs.

For all intents and purposes I might add...
I bring away a sense of wonder and an admiration of the determination used when creating some of this stuff.

I am in awe of some of these things
Here is one that guards a junction to a group of trails.
The bench, (where the packs sit) is carved out for several narrow Spanish butts to sit and operate an Astrolabe.
There is an ancient snake with his nose against the bench.
And of course the giant face...
All in all 7 trails junction here,
4 coming in and 3 out.

Lanny,

You have a carving of an animal on one of those rocks with a rock in the mouth.  The rock in the mouth means there is a hole or tunnel there and a rock is over it, also the rock shape says it is below.  I cannot send a circle picture now but I think you can see it too. 

Rigmover 2507,

The line with the X under it may mean dig below 10 vara and may mean there is a covered entry to a shaft 10 vara deep directly below or where that angled line is pointing  this is what I would check.   Let me know what you find. 

Desertmoons,

How are you?  I just got back from Iraq and as soon as I catch up on a few things I may come up your way and look at the site you sent me I'll e-mail you when I get up that way.


Minetres.

I cant say Here what that looks like to Me OD...LMAO

way cool pic though TYVM

The line with the X under it may mean dig below 10 vara and may mean there is a covered entry to a shaft 10 vara deep directly below or where that angled line is pointing  this is what I would check.   Let me know what you find. 

The "spot" is or was about ten varas away give or take south east of this mark, and it faces due south.  as to what has or hasnt been found, well we cant really get into that now can we.   there was a whole lot more information here before it was vandalized

found a new site today bout a half mile or so south of where the "m" and owl are.  i believe it to be a campsite

more

more

Rigmover 2507,

The line with the X under it may mean dig below 10 vara and may mean there is a covered entry to a shaft 10 vara deep directly below or where that angled line is pointing  this is what I would check.   Let me know what you find. 

Minetres.

If you think the entrance is that deep,
may I suggest looking for a disguised pozo.
would be easier to gain access by other means
than to tear up a piece of the countryside trying to find an entrance thay may be too deep to get to.

this is the hoyo and what you can see through it

Here is what I see

Lost Horse

anybody ever heard of these guys?
http://www.losttreasure.com/fitz/t-PictGallery.aspx

okey dokey

Here is what I see

Lost Horse

Thanks lost horse, i didnt even notice the heart and owl till you pointed them out.  but litteraly iv had no time to do anything more than reduce them and upload right after i got in last night. 

Looking at these pictures I see one standout.

This hoyo points, it brings to your attention the one of two standout formations.

Hmmm interesting OD.  I thought your part of the hoyo was just part of its natural shape.  Guess I was wrong.  This is what I saw using the notch at the top....

CT,
You do well in that speculation,
a closer look reveals a small pointer on the bottom pointing to the notch.
All in all both objects could have a definite role to play in the trail being followed.

Well done

Minetrees, so very  glad you got back safe and sound.  Now you can stomp around the desert on your own time Did yopu see any interesting old things when you were there?


Had a few down months there but lately things are looking better.

Drop me an email when you get new address.

KDM

Hey great
this is the way it is susposed to work.!!

May I suggest that CT and OD are correct....here is why
The hoyo itself is a MUSHROOM...and when Jason snapped the pic
the mushroom was still not in its full outline (orientation), then that
made the line he drewto far to the right., CT caught the notch at the
top and our Guru Old Dog lined it up with the  pointer at the bottom..
and both hit the target,nice.

Add this all up, and if the pic was snapped at the full outline of the hoyo,
notches , pointer and hoyo would have pointed to the shadowed areas at
the far ledge. Usually the darkest group of shadows in the directiion of the
pointers/notches are the intended destination...mushroom means...Xxxxx!

good going guys, great fun
rangler..
ps take the close ups of the shadows signs, at noon when you hike over there!!! if you have time!

Jason,
I have marked up what I see at first glance on the monument with the decayed hoyo.....
In the first circle at the left , the obvious face in shadow..looking left with the back of his
head in the sun...next the red square is very nice Dog 3/4 view, looking slightly left...
then up to the  long rectangle, this looks like an owl but it has more of a feline feel to
me,  to the right of this, a bold shadow profile looking left,  the next ditto! and finally
the red circle on the far right is a shadow of wht looks like a rabbit?, also  looking
slightly left! So I get the feeling the Omega is to the left, what ya think?? lol

There is more , like the black shadow of a horses head to the tight left of the dog..!
and just what is the object right to the right of the very first head with the face in shadow?
Looks kinda like a bust with the head missing...

It it was me , I would go back take some close up and look for the  more subtle signs.
hope this helps
rangler



'if we could only see all the things we look at the first time'

Rigmover,
In post #856 picture #3
Lost horse noticed an owl that you may have missed.
Just below the owl there are some recent graphiti and some old stuff.
did you take any pictures of this?
there may be some things hidden here that got missed.

Rigmover,
In post #856 picture #3
Lost horse noticed an owl that you may have missed.
Just below the owl there are some recent graphiti and some old stuff.
did you take any pictures of this?
there may be some things hidden here that got missed.

Yup here is the whole panel in a three pic panorama

Jason,
I have marked up what I see at first glance on the monument with the decayed hoyo.....

At first glance!? jeez, i didnt see any of this till you pointed it out, i was Certian there was nothing there before i posted it....that was sorta the point, Oh well, win some ya loose some! Anyhoo, to the left is the entrance/exit to the badlands one way in, one way out.  oddly enough everything seems to point that direction.

Jason,
Here is those three pix with a change of venue.
Try looking at the negative and eliminate the graphiti.
It is easier this way.

The only thing I can see of interest on them is the face pointing to the left.
The graffiti has destroyed any and all signage on the panel.

The only thing I can see of interest on them is the face pointing to the left.
The graffiti has destroyed any and all signage on the panel.

i thought the same thing, thats why i didnt post them originaly.  i always look over the pics in the neg, but i post them normal to let others decide how to view them.  got a couple more pics from yesterday at the site that this face, hoyo ect point to. gotta dl from the cam resize and have them up in a few.

These are the two rocks that were seen through the hoyo or pointed at through it from the other side ov the wash.

some indeterminate markings and evidence that someone gave up on a hole after about 6 inches. Ha!

hole in bottom at ground level bout ten to 15 feet long

front side of hoyo

Someone went to an awful lot of trouble to dig that hole through there.
Have you looked through it fom both directions?
maybe it shows an obscure trail off through the trees.
I have an omega hoyo that does that.
My trail ended at a death trap.

this is a seperate site a little further down the road

and the last two of the day

Jason,
Do you think they carved it, or do you think they just took advantage of a natural formation to make that huge turtle??

post #873 looks like your turtle carved into the rock instead of start and didnt finish.

Jason,
Do you think they carved it, or do you think they just took advantage of a natural formation to make that huge turtle??

i think maybe the general shape was there they prolly just did some enhancement and placement.  the patterns in the rock are quite normal for this area, so that was just a bonus in my opinion.pretty darn neat though if you ask me, either way you slice it.

post #873 looks like your turtle carved into the rock instead of start and didnt finish.

873 was a shot of the same structure in 875, at the lower left corner facing it sideways.  not sure i see the turtle resemblance tho.

here is the carving i seen.brent

The turtle I refer to is the last picture in post # 877 and the first one in # 878

Huge turtle

Rigmover!
        I see this!!  td

desertmoons,

In the topic #838 your picture shows a large turtle head near the top of the photo.  You can see the nose of the turtle is still attached meaning the treasure has not been removed by who it belonged to so it may still be there.  The last large turtle head I saw like that the nose was cut off and withen 100 feet I found the empty hole where the treasure was buried.  A very deep chisle cut lead me to finding the nose and putting it back on and that led me to the hole where the treasure was buried but you did not notice it was a turtle head until the nose was put back on.  when you find a turtle like this or one with no legs you are within 150 feet of a treasure.  It would take to long to tell you all I know about this on this site but since we live in the same state maybe we will meet and I'll tell you more then.

Minetres

RigMover!!

  I also see a few things in one of your other pictures,,
        There is a heart circled in red,, it points to what looks like an Indian,, on his back,, with his head to the left,, facing up,, he even has a headband on!!
        The small box in red,, is sitting in the lap of a sitting Sun figure,, and his feet are pointing down,, as are other pointers in green,, Sun and Shadow signs,, plus triangle!!  Might be a cache there!! But there is black in the area,, SO BE CAREFUL!!
        At the top,, My theory when I see a human face blowing air out of it's mouth,, it is blowing air to show where a POZO is!! An airshaft,,  and to the right,, looks like rabbit ears also this points to a POZO!!  Could be a Shaft at the top!!  AGAIN,, BE CAREFULL!  Wish I knew more to share!!   td

 HA!!!
    Tried to post a plain copy of same picture!!!   Help!!  Thom!  td   HA!!

This what you wanted Tony?

The important things this marker show are through the mushroom shaped hoyo.
There is a shadow of an eagle or a winged man in the lower right, as well as an hourglass in the center of the base.
But the important things are through the hole.

Thanks Thom!!   Just thought there might be a small parcel for someone there!  And I thought the Winged Man might be a Boot,, telling to go around to the right!   td

This one could indicate a Mathew site ahead. watch for numbers and letters on markers.
Especially The letter M and numbers like 14 and similar
They are Bible references to the book of Mathew.

this little 200 yard circumfrence area is loaded with S/S almost every thing you look at has something.  the area that the hoyo shows was sort of a dissapointment across the canyon/wash not crap for symbology just some curious circumstances of the adjacent hoyo.  we didnt find crap, but are planning to sweep both areas with our two boxes sometime in the next couple weeks.  thanks TD for the synopsis.
 all of you fascinate me with the things you see that dont even cross my mind till they're pointed out.

If this is the winged Man looks like he has a Hole in his head..i see daylite maybe peak thru by lyin on the ground or look thru from the other side??

It maybe be a smaller mushroom shape viewing it from the other side.

Also in the lower center of my circle is a perfect Face ontop of the small pillar? below the winged man.

RigMover!!

   Your Welcome Amigo!!   td

Rigmover,

Watch for concealed or camoflaged Numbers,
especially a combination of 7-13,14.
That will work into Mathew chapter 7 verses 13 and 14.
This should at least give some insight as to a basic reference and more information.

If you find these or parts of these, you are in "the yard"
and you need to be careful from here out.
You will find several routes toward the end of the sign trail.

If it is a Mathew site...
The wrong way will be trapped.

Here is a place that is in question for me.
I have been wondering exactly what is the deal with this.
The opening is almost fortified looking.
There is no evidence of Native American habitation.

There is however evidence that it was used as a regular camp by someone eons ago.

I would like to get your take on it.

There is no evidence of Native American habitation.
There is however evidence that it was used as a regular camp by someone eons ago.
I would like to get your take on it.

evidence of native american habitation would likeley be in the form of ash and stone flaking but be a foot or more below the surface under the ledge, it looks like a spot that would readily accumulate dirt and sand in the event of windy situations.  this would probably be used as an interm shelter for the nomadic peoples that followed their food around, clovis era peoples or older.  perhaps also used as a shelter for the hunting parties of the pueblo habitation, or in.....

Awww crap, yeah, people could have been sleeping there for 30,000 yrs (as they passed by), 
dosen't look to be much of a "destination"

You could very well be right,
It would make an exelent place to rest and regroup from a journey.
There are signs of Spanish here,
The reason I asked is the walled in front is similar to some fortifications I have seen in several Anasazi sites.

There is however no evidence of early man, as usually I do find wall decorating present.
There is also no building other than the same stacking of stones to wall off the ends.

A definite couriosity.

Just in case you all got bored this week, (i figured as much since it was dead as jerry garcia in the threads this week) I went out and got a few more pics for your viewing pleasure and various interpetations.

Woo-Hoo! Top of the page baby....

More.....

Oh, by the way, the pic above bears a striking resemblance to this one bout a half mile max apart.

RIG!!

   WOW!!  GREAT STUFF!!   td

looks like a boot carved into bottom on 039.

Rigmover.

Every thing I see in the pictures leading up to your Hoyo,
convince me that my original assessment of your hoyo photo is correct.