Indian Head Key Date? (Updated Picture)

Today I went to a home built in 1830 and the finds were few and far between.  I think the property was previously detected.  The only coin worth mentioning was the Indian head I found about an hour in. It was at about 6-8 inches. Maybe the last person there just looked over it or they didn't have a Sovereign GT and couldn't see that deep  The condition looked bleak.  I could tell the back of the coin was an IH but could not see any detail on the front of the coin.  Well after a hot peroxide bath, the coin came out much better than I could have hoped.  In fact, it's the best condition IH I've found to date.  It's an 1872!  I think this might be considered a "key date".  Maybe someone on this board could verify whether it is "key" or not. 

Also could anybody give me an idea of the grade of the coin? 

Thanks for looking!

That is a pretty good year.   Definitely a semi-key date.    My guess is it would grade at least F-12 which would make it a 300-350 dollar coin in the 2008 Red Book.    Nice find.

wow Aaron that IH is fantastic looking. congrats.

Holy Bleeep  ! That is one nice I.H. congratulations!

Steve

wow that is a super looking IH!!! Why can't mine look like that?

Do you think it might be worth sending it in and having it graded?

Hey Aaron, nice IH. Where you in our area? This site may help for US coin finds. If you page to the bottom there are link to other coins.

Brian

http://sammler.com/coins/indian_head.htm

You and civilman find the best looking Indians!!!
Congratulations.

Wow!  That did clean up great!  It is amazing that you were able to find it there,  somebody had definetly gone through there with a fine tooth comb before.  Great job!

Hey Aaron, nice IH. Where you in our area? This site may help for US coin finds. If you page to the bottom there are link to other coins.

Brian

http://sammler.com/coins/indian_head.htm

Yeah... Just off of 282 outside of Downingtown.  Seems like most places around us have been searched up and down though.  Everywhere I go seems to have piles of scrap metal laying all over the place as if its already been searched. 

Wow!  That did clean up great!  It is amazing that you were able to find it there,  somebody had definetly gone through there with a fine tooth comb before.  Great job!

I was very surprised with the detail. 

That is the prettiest Indian i've seen dug

fantastic Indian, and I thought the one I dug (my avatar) was in good shape! wow, congrats!

That cent is a freaking beauty!

SWEEET !!!!!

look at the prices on ebay for that year, only 7 of them on auction right now, and yours looks better than any on there. looks like it could fetch quite a bit of cash

That IH is stunning.  I would definitely say VF-EF as for condition.  That must have been one h*ll of a peroxide bath!  I'm all for cleaning coins like that for this reason.  Nice find!  There have been a bunch of nice indians found this week!

I don't know much about all the date stuff, I just keep throwing them in the box , but that is a very nice looking coin,,, Congrats!
Continued Good luck, & Happy hunting~

http://www.us-coin-values-advisor.c...ndian-head-cent-1869-1879.html#1872

about $500 according to the link, and seems to be about the same according to PCGS value guide.

I say Extra Fine grade. Great key date coin!!!

Do you think it might be worth sending it in and having it graded?

Looks like no one has replied to this.  YES!  This key date Indian is definitely worth sending in.  Don't even bother with PCGS or NGC - would most likely come back in a body bag.  Send it right in to ANACS.  They will grade it no matter what.  I'm guessing at least a VF-20, maybe EF.  Definitely worth having it graded.  Great find, BTW!  If I wasn't in Mongolia for the rest of the year, I'd be back in the States looking for coins like this! 

Ditto to what creeper said.  Mine is worn to the point where the 1 is hardly visible.
Outstanding coin!

Do you think it might be worth sending it in and having it graded?

Looks like no one has replied to this.  YES!  This key date Indian is definitely worth sending in.  Don't even bother with PCGS or NGC - would most likely come back in a body bag.  Send it right in to ANACS.  They will grade it no matter what.  I'm guessing at least a VF-20, maybe EF.  Definitely worth having it graded.  Great find, BTW!  If I wasn't in Mongolia for the rest of the year, I'd be back in the States looking for coins like this! 

Have to agree, DO NOT send to PCGS or NGC, they WILL body bag anything dug (environmental damage).  Send it to ANACS, they will grade dug coins, cleaned coins (I have a cleaned 1916 SLQ they slabbed and put the word cleaned on the slab), errors, etc.  Your coin would (based on the obverse) grade XF - AU, but due to being dug they would give it a minimum overall grade of VF, maybe even an XF.

How much does ANACS charge to grade a coin.  Also... Are they looked at as a reputable company as far as grading quality goes? 

How much does ANACS charge to grade a coin.  Also... Are they looked at as a reputable company as far as grading quality goes? 

check here

http://www.anacs.com/contentPages/FAQMain.aspx

that indian sure is a beauty...

Aaron do you have any shots of the reverse?  it is an awesome coin!

sweet find  fantastic condition   congrats

Ditto what cam9457 said. Also I think I've heard that ANACS is a third tierd grading company but if the first two won't grade it, sorta pushes them to the first tier. D.D.

Aaron do you have any shots of the reverse?  it is an awesome coin!

I do have a picture of the reverse.  I'll post it tonight. 

WOW, nice find no indians for me yet!

WOW, nice find no indians for me yet!

Thanks... I'm sure it is only a matter of time before you get your first Indian Head.  I see you have a Minelab in your arsenal, so you should be getting nice depth.  Good Luck!

EF-AU grade. WOWEE! Would like to see the back to determine if it is the "shallow"  "N" variety. (if you could)

Excellent, Excellent Coin!!!


Make sure you give it a distilled water soak for a good while after that peroxide!  Once it's slabbed--if you go that route--there is no turning back for getting the peroxide off of it.


That's a Fantastic Find!  Hard to get IH's from the 1870's--I've only found a few--and rarely in that condition.



-Buckleboy

EF-AU grade. WOWEE! Would like to see the back to determine if it is the "shallow"  "N" variety. (if you could)

It does have a "shallow N".  Can you tell me what this means in terms of value?  I will post a picture tonight.

She's a Beaut PJ.....I thought my 65' was in great shape,this one does circle's around.....Congrat's and HH!!

Shallow "N" in CENT is scarce. I would add 25%-30% +  to value of the final grade.  This find, in my opinion, deserves the BANNER!

Here is another picture of the front and a shot of the reverse.  Can you tell me if this looks like the "Shallow N" variety?

Wow,  that came out incredible!  The detail is amazing.  It's crazy knowing it came out of the ground!

This one looks certainly like the Shallow N variety to me.  The difference between the underside of the N in "One" and the N in "Cent" is pretty bold--and I'd say that the difference would be more pronounced with the photo taken dead-on in a well-lit environment.  I would imagine that this variety is more difficult to distinguish on more heavily circulated examples.

I'm curious to see what the other coin gurus have to say...


Regards,


Buckleboy

This one looks certainly like the Shallow N variety to me.  The difference between the underside of the N in "One" and the N in "Cent" is pretty bold--and I'd say that the difference would be more pronounced with the photo taken dead-on in a well-lit environment.  I would imagine that this variety is more difficult to distinguish on more heavily circulated examples.

I'm curious to see what the other coin gurus have to say...


Regards,


Buckleboy

Hopefully this is a little more visible.

Agien, that is one purtty penny

Shallow "N" in CENT is scarce. I would add 25%-30% +  to value of the final grade.  This find, in my opinion, deserves the BANNER!

I don't know anything about this variety, but if this is true I'd say you are looking at a $600 coin, even with it being out of the ground and cleaned.  And that's assuming it would grade VF Details!  It seems more like EF to me, but I am sitting in Outer Mongolia with no coin books such as Photograde to look at.  If it were me, I would definitely send it in to ANACS.  I've had so many coins come back in body bags from NGC and PCGS, that I'm pretty much done with them.  ANACS is the "third tier", but they might just be the best company to work with.  I've had nothing but good come out of sending coins to them.  I sent a 1799 Heraldic Eagle Silver Dollar to them that I won off eBay, and they slabbed it and sent it right back.  Go to their website and contact them - they'll send you a free kit in the mail which will include 50 coin flips and a bunch of submission forms.  It's really simple to do.  I know everyone here (including me) would be very curious to see the results.  I also agree that this is banner material!  Thanks for posting the reverse - this is one beautiful coin!

wow, nice find,  absolute beautiful coin

Shallow "N" in CENT is scarce. I would add 25%-30% +  to value of the final grade.  This find, in my opinion, deserves the BANNER!

I don't know anything about this variety, but if this is true I'd say you are looking at a $600 coin, even with it being out of the ground and cleaned.  And that's assuming it would grade VF Details!  It seems more like EF to me, but I am sitting in Outer Mongolia with no coin books such as Photograde to look at.  If it were me, I would definitely send it in to ANACS.  I've had so many coins come back in body bags from NGC and PCGS, that I'm pretty much done with them.  ANACS is the "third tier", but they might just be the best company to work with.  I've had nothing but good come out of sending coins to them.  I sent a 1799 Heraldic Eagle Silver Dollar to them that I won off eBay, and they slabbed it and sent it right back.  Go to their website and contact them - they'll send you a free kit in the mail which will include 50 coin flips and a bunch of submission forms.  It's really simple to do.  I know everyone here (including me) would be very curious to see the results.  I also agree that this is banner material!  Thanks for posting the reverse - this is one beautiful coin!

ANACS sounds like they are the easiest company to work with.  I guess they are the ones I will go with in the future. 

they came back in body bags? i don't understand...   sweet ih...  amazing that it came out of the ground.  still wonderful looking.

Shallow "N" in CENT is scarce. I would add 25%-30% +  to value of the final grade.  This find, in my opinion, deserves the BANNER!

I don't know anything about this variety, but if this is true I'd say you are looking at a $600 coin, even with it being out of the ground and cleaned.  And that's assuming it would grade VF Details!  It seems more like EF to me, but I am sitting in Outer Mongolia with no coin books such as Photograde to look at.  If it were me, I would definitely send it in to ANACS.  I've had so many coins come back in body bags from NGC and PCGS, that I'm pretty much done with them.  ANACS is the "third tier", but they might just be the best company to work with.  I've had nothing but good come out of sending coins to them.  I sent a 1799 Heraldic Eagle Silver Dollar to them that I won off eBay, and they slabbed it and sent it right back.  Go to their website and contact them - they'll send you a free kit in the mail which will include 50 coin flips and a bunch of submission forms.  It's really simple to do.  I know everyone here (including me) would be very curious to see the results.  I also agree that this is banner material!  Thanks for posting the reverse - this is one beautiful coin!

I looked at their site and still do not see what they charge..........what do they charge?

I looked at their site and still do not see what they charge..........what do they charge?

They list their prices under 'services'.

To send in one coin it would be $19 plus shipping, or you could spend more if you wanted to get it back faster.

Shallow "N" in CENT is scarce. I would add 25%-30% +  to value of the final grade.  This find, in my opinion, deserves the BANNER!

   I gotta vote this one for BANNER!!!   BANNER!!!  BANNER!!!   BANNER!!!   BANNER!!!   BANNER!!!   BANNER!!!   BANNER!!!   BANNER!!!   BANNER!!!  BANNER!!!   BANNER!!!   BANNER!!!   BANNER!!!   BANNER!!!   BANNER!!!   BANNER!!!   BANNER!!!  BANNER!!!   BANNER!!!   BANNER!!!   BANNER!!!  BANNER!!!  as well

they came back in body bags? i don't understand...   sweet ih...  amazing that it came out of the ground.  still wonderful looking.

Shallow "N" in CENT is scarce. I would add 25%-30% +  to value of the final grade.  This find, in my opinion, deserves the BANNER!

I don't know anything about this variety, but if this is true I'd say you are looking at a $600 coin, even with it being out of the ground and cleaned.  And that's assuming it would grade VF Details!  It seems more like EF to me, but I am sitting in Outer Mongolia with no coin books such as Photograde to look at.  If it were me, I would definitely send it in to ANACS.  I've had so many coins come back in body bags from NGC and PCGS, that I'm pretty much done with them.  ANACS is the "third tier", but they might just be the best company to work with.  I've had nothing but good come out of sending coins to them.  I sent a 1799 Heraldic Eagle Silver Dollar to them that I won off eBay, and they slabbed it and sent it right back.  Go to their website and contact them - they'll send you a free kit in the mail which will include 50 coin flips and a bunch of submission forms.  It's really simple to do.  I know everyone here (including me) would be very curious to see the results.  I also agree that this is banner material!  Thanks for posting the reverse - this is one beautiful coin!

Coming back in body bags means that the grading company decided not to slab it due to whatever reason.  If you look in their fine print there are about 25 reasons why they might decide not to grade it.  The lovely thing is that they take the same amount of time as if they are grading it, and they don't refund any of your money.  You pay to ship it, return shipping, and grading costs, and then weeks later you get your coin back in a plastic flip that says, "Sorry."  That's why a company like ANACS is so nice.  They will almost always grade your coin and put it in a slab and just mark it their net grade and have "cleaned" or "corroded" or whatever also written on the tag.  I've never ever heard of someone getting an ANACS coin back in a body bag, although there may be an extremely rare example.  It's just a nice option.  If you've ever gotten a coin back in a body bag, then you would know why ANACS is sometimes a much better way to go.  Especially with a dug coin.  A dug copper, I might add.

By the way, congrats on making the banner!  You deserve it with a coin like this.

Wow... I never thought I would have anything end up on the banner.  That is pretty awesome.  Thanks

Now I REALLY want to get back out there!

Great job on the banner buddy, you deserve it. Very Well Done. 

How much of an impact would a dug coin have on it's grade?  I've read that a slabbed coin that was dug from the ground would have a designation of "environmentally damaged".  If for example, another 1872 IH had the exact same amount of detail but was not dug graded XF,  would my coin with the same exact detail then become at most F or VF? 

Holy smokes!!!  Congrats on a fantastic rare IH, and a banner find at that. 
Beautiful coin. Good luck on the grading. Can't wait to hear the results.
-MM-

How much of an impact would a dug coin have on it's grade?  I've read that a slabbed coin that was dug from the ground would have a designation of "environmentally damaged".  If for example, another 1872 IH had the exact same amount of detail but was not dug graded XF,  would my coin with the same exact detail then become at most F or VF? 

Very nice coin!!  I found an 1872 IH last year, but mine is not in as good shape as yours is. 

I think to get the most out of your coin, you should probably pay the fees/shipping to get it graded by ANACS.  If you never think you'll sell it, then leave it as is.  Remember, although your coin has amazing detail, that's only part of the formula that is looked at when a coin is graded.  Because of the greenish patina/light corrosion marks on your coin, you might expect to get it back with an "environmental damage" caption on your slab.  For a dug coin, though, your Injun is hard to beat.

HH,
CAPTN SE
Dan

Congrats on the banner and it is a very nice 1872.  In answer to your question, I honestly believe ANACS will label it CORRODED or Environmental Damage. I just looked thru untold dozens of previous ANACS slabbed 1872's on HERITAGE Auction website and many coins had that designation that were slabbed by them. They also used the word CLEANED on a lot of them.  Yes, it knocked the auction price down considerably on them.

I would go to the auction sites yourself and compare, and see how many 1872's in the archives have what designation on them, so you would not be surprised if you do decide to slab.  I agree with Capt SE , no way would I send off and slab if no intention of ever selling it.  Even then, I think I would compare unslabbed prices with slabbed and see if there is much of a difference for the 1872s. Sometimes it is better not to be slabbed, depends on the buyers and where sold.

http://www.ha.com/    (Heritage Auction Galleries) I believe to see the full information you must join (FREE) I use it alot as a useful tool in IDing coins and determing rough value, especially since they seem to handle a lot of "environmentally damaged" coins. 

Don

That is one awesomely sweet looking coin. Congratulations!!!

Good luck and HH,

Dr. Ace

Congrats on the banner and it is a very nice 1872.  In answer to your question, I honestly believe ANACS will label it CORRODED or Environmental Damage. I just looked thru untold dozens of previous ANACS slabbed 1872's on HERITAGE Auction website and many coins had that designation that were slabbed by them. They also used the word CLEANED on a lot of them.  Yes, it knocked the auction price down considerably on them.

I would go to the auction sites yourself and compare, and see how many 1872's in the archives have what designation on them, so you would not be surprised if you do decide to slab.  I agree with Capt SE , no way would I send off and slab if no intention of ever selling it.  Even then, I think I would compare unslabbed prices with slabbed and see if there is much of a difference for the 1872s. Sometimes it is better not to be slabbed, depends on the buyers and where sold.

http://www.ha.com/    (Heritage Auction Galleries) I believe to see the full information you must join (FREE) I use it alot as a useful tool in IDing coins and determing rough value, especially since they seem to handle a lot of "environmentally damaged" coins. 

Is there any way to remove the green patina?  Would they consider the coin "cleaned" for the peroxide bath or would they not have a way of knowing.  I sometimes think the peroxide bath can cause the green patina and I wonder if it can be removed. 

Don

The peroxide did not cause the green patina, that was there before the dirt was removed, it just exposed what was underneath the dirt or deteriorating edge.  I would leave be what has done, but make sure you do soak the coin in distilled or at least water that has stood for a day and then let dry thoroughly.  I know of no safe way to remove the edge corrosion without possibly causing more of the edge to degrade in appearance.

As far as saying cleaned by the company, I am not sure when they add that, since most ground founds sent to them is cleaned in their opinion. I have seen them marked improperly cleaned on silver coins that have been ground found and only water was rinsed over the coins to remove loose dirt. So, sometimes it is a no-win situation. The newer the coin, the tougher they are on grading for corrosion and other defects I believe.

Some coins that are marked cleaned, obviously were put into something that lightened the appearance of the copper, and that I can understand. 

The way the companies grade our ground founds, sort of makes me lean more towards, never getting one graded and slabbed and just either sell on e-bay or with  most auction companies I think they will take a coin as is (they attribute and grade for their catalog)and put it up for auction.

I have never sent any of my coins to any of the services, and I have quite a few that would do quite well, so I have not experienced first hand the results of getting one slabbed. Since I am more into the colonials and early year large cents, the slabbing of the older coins is not as much desired by those collectors as one would think.  I have had my rarest 1794 Large Cent appraised by Heritage(by e-mail photograph) and was not too happy with their language compared to a few other appraisals I got from actual collectors, including offers that were much higher than the estimate from Heritage. 

By joining Heritage Auction's after one year I was allowed to submit a photograph of one coin for a free appraisal, and that is why they appraised my 1794 S-19a Large Cent.

Don

 

The peroxide did not cause the green patina, that was there before the dirt was removed, it just exposed what was underneath the dirt or deteriorating edge.  I would leave be what has done, but make sure you do soak the coin in distilled or at least water that has stood for a day and then let dry thoroughly.  I know of no safe way to remove the edge corrosion without possibly causing more of the edge to degrade in appearance.

As far as saying cleaned by the company, I am not sure when they add that, since most ground founds sent to them is cleaned in their opinion. I have seen them marked improperly cleaned on silver coins that have been ground found and only water was rinsed over the coins to remove loose dirt. So, sometimes it is a no-win situation. The newer the coin, the tougher they are on grading for corrosion and other defects I believe.

Some coins that are marked cleaned, obviously were put into something that lightened the appearance of the copper, and that I can understand. 

The way the companies grade our ground founds, sort of makes me lean more towards, never getting one graded and slabbed and just either sell on e-bay or with  most auction companies I think they will take a coin as is (they attribute and grade for their catalog)and put it up for auction.

I have never sent any of my coins to any of the services, and I have quite a few that would do quite well, so I have not experienced first hand the results of getting one slabbed. Since I am more into the colonials and early year large cents, the slabbing of the older coins is not as much desired by those collectors as one would think.  I have had my rarest 1794 Large Cent appraised by Heritage(by e-mail photograph) and was not too happy with their language compared to a few other appraisals I got from actual collectors, including offers that were much higher than the estimate from Heritage. 

By joining Heritage Auction's after one year I was allowed to submit a photograph of one coin for a free appraisal, and that is why they appraised my 1794 S-19a Large Cent.

Don

 

Thanks for all the information.  I personally am much more interested in the Colonials and LC's also but unfortunately, I never find them.  I'm in the right locations... I guess it just hasn't been my time yet. 
I am going to send it off to Anacs and see what kind of grade they put on it.  I am interested in what damage labels they will slap on it.  I looked over the Heritage Auction results for the same coin.  I think the detail on this coin is higher than any they had at VF and was similar or better detailed than a lot of the EF coins they have sold in the past.  I'm sure it will say corroded or Environmental Damage or something similar but I think the detail grade should be quite high. It doesn't really matter to me... I'm really just excited to have my first coin graded.  I'll keep everybody posted on the outcome too.   Again, thanks for all your info.

Aaron, congrats on making the banner!!!

Congrats on your "banner" find!

A simply amazing Indian Head!  Congrats on the Banner.   

This thread has been very informative. 
Keep digging!

The peroxide did not cause the green patina, that was there before the dirt was removed, it just exposed what was underneath the dirt or deteriorating edge.  I would leave be what has done, but make sure you do soak the coin in distilled or at least water that has stood for a day and then let dry thoroughly.  I know of no safe way to remove the edge corrosion without possibly causing more of the edge to degrade in appearance.

As far as saying cleaned by the company, I am not sure when they add that, since most ground founds sent to them is cleaned in their opinion. I have seen them marked improperly cleaned on silver coins that have been ground found and only water was rinsed over the coins to remove loose dirt. So, sometimes it is a no-win situation. The newer the coin, the tougher they are on grading for corrosion and other defects I believe.

Some coins that are marked cleaned, obviously were put into something that lightened the appearance of the copper, and that I can understand. 

The way the companies grade our ground founds, sort of makes me lean more towards, never getting one graded and slabbed and just either sell on e-bay or with  most auction companies I think they will take a coin as is (they attribute and grade for their catalog)and put it up for auction.

I have never sent any of my coins to any of the services, and I have quite a few that would do quite well, so I have not experienced first hand the results of getting one slabbed. Since I am more into the colonials and early year large cents, the slabbing of the older coins is not as much desired by those collectors as one would think.  I have had my rarest 1794 Large Cent appraised by Heritage(by e-mail photograph) and was not too happy with their language compared to a few other appraisals I got from actual collectors, including offers that were much higher than the estimate from Heritage. 

By joining Heritage Auction's after one year I was allowed to submit a photograph of one coin for a free appraisal, and that is why they appraised my 1794 S-19a Large Cent.

Don

 

Thanks for all the information.  I personally am much more interested in the Colonials and LC's also but unfortunately, I never find them.  I'm in the right locations... I guess it just hasn't been my time yet. 
I am going to send it off to Anacs and see what kind of grade they put on it.  I am interested in what damage labels they will slap on it.  I looked over the Heritage Auction results for the same coin.  I think the detail on this coin is higher than any they had at VF and was similar or better detailed than a lot of the EF coins they have sold in the past.  I'm sure it will say corroded or Environmental Damage or something similar but I think the detail grade should be quite high. It doesn't really matter to me... I'm really just excited to have my first coin graded.  I'll keep everybody posted on the outcome too.   Again, thanks for all your info.

Don in SJ had a ton of good information here.  But, still, if it were me, I think I would still send it in.  I just love getting them back slabbed.  I like to get coins slabbed for my own collection, even if I'm never going to sell.  It is a much better coin holder than coin flips or 2x2s or anything else really.  Just make sure you take the advice of soaking it in distilled water.  

I think you will be pleased with the results.  

Very awesome job!!! 

WOW WOW WOW WOW That is all I can say I have been collectong coins a long time, and I have to honestly say that that coin is hard to find with great a detail, I would def. say at least a VF-20 maybe a low XF. If you went to a coin show say the coin and stamp show in Raliegh NC and wanted to buy your coin in that grade "SLABBED" you would pay at least $525 or more. 

Congratulations on your find!  That is just Freakin Awesome

Super Sweet coin! Congrats on the find & making the Banner!

I keep hoping for that elusive 187X from the place I've been hunting. Congrats on your superb find and making the banner

Once again, simply outstanding semi-key IH.  Let us know what it gets graded as. 

OMG!!! That has to be one of the best looking IHs I have seen come out of the ground, wow !! Congrats.  Gl and HH

Definatly a banner find!

Surfin

 Beautful coin!  The condition is gorgeous!   

   Larry

That is a beautiful Indian Head cent!

[God bless our veterans! Thank you for your sacrifices!]

Stunning!  Stunning!! Stunning!!

Congrats on that great find!!!!   

Wow!!! Nothing more to add from here...    jgas






Okay.........You rock!