Treasure Signs and Symbols 101

Ernie,
you said...Just a thought that stopped in my mind for a fleeting moment, it has been my thoughts that most all treasure symbols have more than one meaning, most have a hidden meaning,

That was some pretty clear thinking! In fact with  my own personal knowledge and the input of a dowser who worked FOR the Catholic Church, recovering church artifacts, [he was allowed to keep any bullion bars or coins for his effort] Quite and interesting gentleman,
he was a Mexican of German descent whos' relatives where imported to Mexico in the 1600's as they were tin miners...he stated to me once, that ALL signs have three meanings as in the trinity...I can solve some of them to two meaning, and once in a great while, to three, but most are still in the single category...[this explains the X meaning a 10 distance, and a 'gift' under the rune alphabet] that begs the question what is the third meaning of the X...?

when the bear leaves his den at the end of winter, he stands at the cave entrance and looks for food...what is the 'food' of a treasure hunter...you got it! The bear also means a death trap in my experience...as the grizzly is the type of bear that the spanish would have encountered in north america.
I have one bear face carved on an 400 year old oak..he is looking at a certain compass bearing..then as you round the tree, a second bear face emerges and that bear is looking at a certain compass bearing with 3 degrees difference...when you plot these faces on the tree on a local topo map, and draw the lines of sight out...about a mile or so, they both
touch the top of a double hill..so perfectly..it is amazing..unfortunately the rancher who lives there has never trimmed the blackberry bushes and both hill tops are a mass of briars and tangles...I have often thought about knocking on his door but...I realized it  is not fitting to cross a street just to kick a hornets nest..so this one is safe for now - from even me and my quest to make this recovery...maybe some day when I dont have as many options as I do right now, with plenty to recover.

Ernie, I know how you feel about not having enough time to do the things you want to do...let it be a reminder to the young bucks out there just starting that think they have all the time in the world..when really it goes so quick and fast, you wonder where did the years go. hell where did the decades go?
well for me, I know time flys..especially when you having fun..
God Bless you Ernie, I am you with just a few decades[minutes] to go..hhehehe
rangler  


for those of you who think the Jesuits were not mining.... Physical evidence dated in time, showing not only were they  mining, but mining and pouring silver bars with the then current dates on them....HA!

i like that pic rangler

Here is the Jesse James rock I mentioned before. I thought you guys would like to see it!

Thanks May. ,
for posting the pic..
Brent can you resize this for May
thanks
rangler

wow 33,000 views! amazing! could not resist!
rangler

re

Very unusual May,
Jessie usually didn't misspell his name.
He would almost always include his middle initial when he spelled it in this fashion.
There may be a message in this, most especially if there is other stuff around it.

Note,
please understand I'm not being detrimental of the picture, only suggesting that if it is misspelled as it is,
there may be a reason for it.

When Jessie put his name on something there was always a reason.

I'm thinking the first and last names were "written" by 2 different people.  If you look at the "E"s  in Jesse,  there is more space between the middle bar and the upper bar.  But, in the last name the middle crossbar is closer to the top.  That may sound  too picky, but when we print our names, we tend to use the same techniques and basic shapes.  As a matter of fact, capital "E"s usually are draw with LESS space between the middle and top bars instead of MORE.  That visual balance is something most people use without really noticing.  

Things we look for include the bar spacing on the E,
How about letter spacing in general,
Missing letters, unexplained punctuation.
Letter size and demeanor

Did you notice that the camera shows that the front peak of the "M" in James appears to have been made to look like another "A".

Most of the folks who have studied a bit about Mr J. W. James find a few surprises.
Both Jessie and Frank were well educated.
They were well versed in reading and writing the English language and knew their Bible by heart.
They knew how to spell.
Jessie was not just some illiterate farmer as most seem to think.
He was an accomplished surveyor and very good at math (ciphers as they called it back then)

Before I make opinions about the intellect of a character from the past
(usually because the decisions he made were poor in our estimation)
be aware of the reasons why he made the choices he made.
(Then I ask myself would I have turned out any different?)
Hmmmm   not so sure
LOL

After following the trail of JJ for 16 years he was a LT with the KGC, Johnson county Ok, SE of Bromide 1-1/4 mile has 18 cache sites of 11000.00 each, he used letters of the alphabet mostly to reference numbers, 30 inch pace was his measurement, 5ft11 inch  tall, feared no man or beast, there was 3 catch sites in the same area that had 2020 pounds of gold layed out in a triangle that the KGC got as payment ( taxes ) to a large party of men  ( solders ) to stop a rebelion in Northern Mexico it took them 3 years to get the job done. It is my feeling's that JJ had his own thing going as far the money was concerned and that's why he was killed. This was the end of the trail for me and it is my opinion that the KGC moved it in the 1880's

Ok, cant figure this posting thing out...newbie !  How do I resize photos !!!

ok let me try this pic....
This is the beginning of my awareness due to a Kenworthy book found in a garage sale. Then, I noticed these symbols (more pics to follow). I will try to follow the trail if I can. The profile face is at the far right on the ridge.

ibaxman:
   You resize the photos with Paint or another photo manipulation application.  Then upload it.  The good size for the posts as about 850 pixels horizontal.  That give a good size pic without having to use sliders.

Ok, cant figure this posting thing out...newbie !  How do I resize photos !!!

Nice picture. May want to walk around the two figure heads and take pictures.

ibaxman---

What is making the blue-gray light?

looks like a interesting place to explore

The blue-green light is a spot on the windshield... guts probably. This is taken on the 101 fwy in socal. There is no way to park here or hike from this spot. But this is a good overview of the starting point. I don't see a second face ? only the one at the top right of the ridge... the shadows play havoc in this terrain. The face on the ridge is looking north on the 101 "el camino real" or translated "King's Highway." In the bottom left of this pic you will see my other finds and then there are more as you travel north. I will post these and one is very interesting...

Ok, here are the symbols in the lower left corner... this editing is a pain ! Close-ups to follow.

#2 is a pointer to north on the 101 or the face at the top of the ridge. # 3 as you drive by looks like a cross but in the close-up photo its hard to tell. The black vertical lines dont make sense especially the one on the left - if it was caused by water it would travel all the way down the rock from the top. Here is a pic of # 3

#1 faces #2 and can only be seen driving south... It looks odd but can't tell if it is anything...what do you guys think ?

A closeup like this will have SS jumping in and marking all over.

Just a suggestion Bill,
a pointer is a pointer.
Seen from one direction points one way.

Its always confusing when you have some many pointers so close together, when one would do. Is there a statement being made as they came in three's?

A closeup like this will have SS jumping in and marking all over.

Just a suggestion Bill,
a pointer is a pointer.
Seen from one direction points one way.

    ACTually, I was wondering how much of that chipping was caused by wildfires spaulling the stone surfaces.   

Hello Casca when you have several symbols in one area measure and  use compass, write it down  please, they may lead you to where theres only two in a row with holes on an angle. One side of a windrose

casa i read somewhere that u look for smaller rock to confirm dir

Casca:
   Ahhhhh........I couldn't work with ya staring at me so had to give you some "hollywoods".   Did you notice that big incised owl on your right, too?  That little rock, above and to your left has several symbols on it, too.  Adjusting the lighting and contrast wouldn't bring them out any better. 



This little Aztec might be holding the head of an enemy raised in triumph,   but he MIGHT be playing hoopball, too.  NOT basketball, but a game they played that required a round ball to be put through a small round stone loop.  There would have been several of the loops mounted around the edge of the playing field.  I don't know the rules, but I did see that game mentioned in one of the documentaries shown on T.V. (either the Discovery or History Channel). 

Sorry for the Johnny Bravo moment.

Yes, too much info at this site.

i think u kinda look like kevin costner.
ss started it!  nice to meet u.

Would have posted this pic sooner if I knew it would be so much fun. That may just be my next avatar. Thanks, hadji009.

all in good fun i will post 1 soon and u can have a go at me. brent

John:
   I just did a quick bing search of "Aztec ball game" and found this site.  Man, that game was really important to the folks.  Ball courts were installed in a new area, right AFTER a temple was built.  Read this page for some interesting info. 
   Now, for the most important point here.  According to the "rules", the players could NOT touch the ball with their hands.  Soooo, guess that little guy in your photo was not playing hoopball.  Or at least, the Aztec version.

http://www.aztec-history.com/aztec-ball-game.html

SS,

Another member on here posted it could very well be a burial crypt of some sort. Not much to see inside, and no bodies. Few drawings and statues, maybe another cave attached to it. I do believe the other side of the mountain has some sort religious reference, but I dont know how the Aztec held church. its gonna take all summer or longer to get a better idea of the layout.

Will know more once I get a good copy of the cave drawings.

I only enter the areas the Spanish was in. There wont be much in the way of relics if its Toltec. If the Spanish left it alone, so am I.

Lots of owls here.

Turtles and Snakes, Hearts and daggers, men and women, faces, and owls(birds), then triangles. Im still not to the top yet.........

Hey old dog what did you mean about SS marking up the close-up photo ? Anyone see anything in that photo ?

Ok, continuing along the trail - under the first profile face is the heart. It appears the right lobe is a pointer... and it is... on the other side of this ridge is a hoyo

Here is the hoyo....

I like the yellow on the rocks. Geobotany tells me something is making the moss yellow. I didnt see the hoyo. You may be onto something. Keep on walking.

The huge rock with the hoyo is so obvious in the valley... is this an alpha or omega monument ? This is where I plan on starting my search. I need to look through the hoyo from the side I can see sky right? Any thoughts ?

Casca I'll edit that photo... its between the large rock and small one below the V... its far away

Casca, what does the yellow mean ? Here is the cropped hoyo pic

Ok, passing the heart and the hoyo farther north there is the last symbol "leading home" ... another profile face... as you pass it there is a clear V on the front and what appears to be a cut cross...

more pics

The V

Hi IB,

I see yellow moss on my rocks here in New Mexico too. Moss has some neat properties about it. It gets it color from the mineral it is close to at times. Im not saying yellow is gold. But I have seen yellow moss here in New Mexico, and what it was nest too was interesting.

I like your big rocks. Remember to look both ways before you cross a trail.

Just kidding. I would look at where the pointers are sending you, and in the opposite direction also.

Man no one on this thread ! Ill have to post the pics elsewhere !

Hello iba, good post if its for real it looks like that the plug has not been removed unless its just too hard to remove and they placed the - cache is gone - somewhere else along the trail, please don't be impatient with us, sometimes it takes awhile,

Rigmover,
I did break it down to a smaller post now,thanks for the suggestion,
 and will post the rest  later
as needed, I was just adamant about staying on thread with the data here.

Certain people want to stray from the topic, this aint no history hunter thread
this is Treasure Signs and Symbols 101, Please  let keep the focus.

 In true Jesuit tradition, one sign is used to mean one or two different
things...example
[ ERROR: SPECIFIED ATTACHMENT MISSING ]

Ⓒ2005-all rights reserved-rangler
The owl and the rabbit-see em?
1. The M stands for Roman Numeral 1000
2. The M stands for the Owl of Minerva
3. The M stands for Travel On, simulated mountain range

They did like the concept of the Trinity, so when you decode one sign
remember there are likely a couple more subtle meanings.......
rangler

It has been my experience that the letter "M" represents a stand for a gourd hanging between two limbs.  A hop and a skip away.....    The range of a slingshot......    Stone marker trail ahead as if an array of little stones on the ground in the distance;  that which is next is just before you;  near the end of the game.  Usually a tree or marker that resembles a sling shot.  Depends on what your looking for there.

twisted,
thanks for the input, do you think what you posted is kgc or spanish..?
my sense is that I posted was the old spanish code, and yours seems to
be of later kgc stuff...just guessing..am I wrong?
I do respect  your wisdom of signs..as I have followed your posts...
you do know your stuff...always happy to learn from folks thats doin'..!
rangler

Ris,

one other possible meaning, roll the M on its side and it resembles the epsilon symbol, meaning in close proximity. Which also could indicate something is buried directly below the symbol, like the next direction marker. -Ris

thanks for the input. I like the  idea, can you fill me in a little more on the reasoning or the use of the M in that manner?.  the meaning of close proximity and the epsilon symbol
thanks in advance for your reply
rangler

Ris,
I continue to research the Epsilon idea, some say in certain context, that is means, 'minimum' as in the 'cost is epsilon' , also it is the 5th letter of the Greek Alphabet...so
this would be a good stand in for the number 5 if it was a distance...and the metal silver..
so some uses inside the code are possible...add this to the fact that most sign have a 'trinity' aspect - that is 3 meaning attached to some signs...

now all we need is a actual photo of it in use...if your paranoid of  posting the pic you have, make a crude drawing in paint.net to show the concept..
thanks for your input,
 always like to push the envelope of known signs and symbols..
rangler

 

Ris,
I hope you don't remove it
Awesome stuff

Ris,
I continue to research the Epsilon idea, some say in certain context, that is means, 'minimum' as in the 'cost is epsilon' , also it is the 5th letter of the Greek Alphabet...so
this would be a good stand in for the number 5 if it was a distance...and the metal silver..
so some uses inside the code are possible...add this to the fact that most sign have a 'trinity' aspect - that is 3 meaning attached to some signs...

now all we need is a actual photo of it in use...if your paranoid of  posting the pic you have, make a crude drawing in paint.net to show the concept..
thanks for your input,
 always like to push the envelope of known signs and symbols..
rangler

 

You may have a corners 1 & 2 to go with that 3.  You'll find a tree and stone together with some form of various structure in reference to the capitol letter A........   Sometimes just a tree bent down to the ground.   Corner 2 will be a little closer to the Apex than corner 3.  If there is a mine there, stand at three and aim at two.  the treasure is in the somewhat near distance beyond there and favoring a veer away from your triangle.  Some form of ore or better buried between 2 and 3 and also to the outside of the triangle favoring nearer to one of the two corners in placement.  Concealed.

Twisted, how are you determining which corner is #1, which is #2, and which is #3?  By the shape of the triangle?

A triangle will be determined by which corner is most southerly and which is most northern
Corner #1 will be the south corner
Corner #2 will be either east or west in relationship to #1
Corner #3 will be the most northern of the group.
triangles will always be oriented that way if they are Spanish.
The rules regarding triangles were set up by royal decree ... those were the rules. Period.
these guys followed the rules.

Your #3 says that the Most northerly point of the triangle is the point to measure from.
Go back and get the rest of the signs that coordinate these measurements. They will be on the trail leading to these signs.

Thom,
"A triangle will be determined by which corner is most southerly and which is most northern
Corner #1 will be the south corner
Corner #2 will be either east or west in relationship to #1
Corner #3 will be the most northern of the group.
triangles will always be oriented that way if they are Spanish.
The rules regarding triangles were set up by royal decree ... those were the rules. Period.
these guys followed the rules."

 absolutely correct Thom, it is one of the key parts of the code that has been broken.

The only variance or nuances I have found is that the # 2 does seem to 'float' from site to site, kinda like a moving pointer used when needed...not always an exact cardinal point
all my #2's have been west but then I am in western part of us...then what chuck said about the 321 digits if carved.
rangler

I have found a couple that are to the East.
None of mine seem to point though. The only exception to the pointer scenario is when marked as a primary corner.
the signs determining this "motherly" corner were found long before other parts of the triangle were found.
signs such as stacked numbers or letters, a group of three letters in a triangle with one oversize letter or number.
Things like this all refer to a triangle. sometimes the numbers/letters will be slanted to indicate the direction to the triangle
(or the direction to measure from the triangle)
A side note,
When the numbers/letters are in a triangle you are supposed to triple the distance of the circumference to the goal.

What I have deduced from your picture is a 1. 3 1
 The 1. or (one dot) indicates the #2 corner the #1 is indicated by the number 1 and the three which is larger indicates the motherly corner.
the numbers oriented from south to north says measure south to north or true north from corner #3.
to get the distance to measure the triangle measure center to center from each marker to the next add all three distances
 and measure exactly that distance from the most northern corner,
remember, these guys didn't use magnetic north so find true north.

If you are off by a couple feet you may miss what they left.

I wish you the best of luck.

Poorfarm:
   The horse's eye, in that close up photo, is very interesting.  It sure looks detailed.  I wonder how it was shaped and to WHAT actual shape. 
    That blazed area on the tree trunk might be a running rabbit that has his ears up and alert. What do ya think?

[ ERROR: SPECIFIED ATTACHMENT MISSING ]

"Pick up the main game trail".........watch for smaller trail stones (bread trail of markers)   to pick up a rock.......to be thrown     A wild turkey hunt     A mischievous game here

Moderator Comment

 TERMS VIOLATION!!

I was wondering if a "T" is capital with the hook-em's like a Texas T like this, is specifically a 20, or if it is more of the diamond directional one? There are other symbols on this boulder and other markers near by.

Wow, sorry for the huge pic.  New here.   How do you crop?

Moderator Comment

 There, all better. Welcome to Tnet

Welcome to the forum JB.
     One way is to open your photo with Microsoft Paint, then resize it by clicking on the "Resize" button on the top tool line.  Then, choose "pixels" in the window, and change the number of pixels to a max of 850 in the horizontal block and then "apply".  Then save the reduced copy to your computer as a separate copy.  Upload that reduced size and you've got it done.

hows s.s. doing tonight

Ahhhh.   Same ole 6s and 7s.   

Ahh, thanks!  I keep reading about marks leading to mines?  Like an old ore mine?  What is the good in that, and why would it be hard to find one?  Wouldn't it just be a hole?

I was wondering if a "T" is capital with the hook-em's like a Texas T like this, is specifically a 20, or if it is more of the diamond directional one? There are other symbols on this boulder and other markers near by.

Nice 'T', jb.  It's significance is extremely variable - there are many reasons why rock carvings were (are) made.  It'd be interesting to see the other carvings, etc. you found nearby.  Does the carving refer to a nearby mine?  Anything's possible, but it's not likely.  

Is there anything special about finding old mines?  If you are in an area with a history of mining, probably not, except as interesting historical tidbits.  Of course, old mines indicate mineralization, which probably means some wealth was extracted back in the day.  See if you can research the mining history (if any) of this area - this will give you some idea of what was going on there.  Old abandoned mines overwhelmingly tell you one thing - the ore played out and the miners moved on.  If you do happen across old workings, remember you are risking life and limb to enter them, even if you are experienced.

close by there is a pile of rocks.  the moss is sticking the rocks together so they have been there a while.  also there is this upside down 7, or arrow, or whatever on the same rock as the T.  Sorry didn't move the stick for the photo so it kind of is in the way.


There are no letters or anything even close on any boulders in this area, so I know the markings aren't natural.

Try going 20 vara's at 45*. The T has a value of 20 and the angled sign may mean 45*. Rocky

hmmm.... i need to get back out to the area, it's been about 5 mo's.  My SE Explorer didn't pick anything up (at All)  it's very clean ground there.  I bought a GPX 4500 so it should be fun and easy to rummage around.  Only problem is the 4 hour round trip drive.  Next time I'll grab more photos.  Now I'm really curious about the 20 varas.  Never had any of this info before, thanks for the help guys.

Here inn New Mexico I located two burials by following the long arm of a "T" just like this one plus there were other alignment marks that also lined up to mark the exact spot.  The location of the burial was about 60 Yards away.

Minetres

This hunt is in correlation to information about the James gang.  I was hunting a specific formation, and walked up thinking this boulder matched perfectly.  Then when I came around the other side, there was these markings.  I hope it's not just coincidence, but I'm trying not to get my hopes up too much.  So far everything matches, I'm just afraid I'll get right on it and miss it because I don't know symbols.
 Hopefully I don't end up digging graves.  Has anyone done that before?  That would be a little creepy seeing how far from any roads this is

In SW New Mexico, JWJ was alleged to have spent time in Hillsboro, Steeple Rock and Silver City, where it's said he was the silent owner of the old Southern Hotel, which was destroyed in a flood in the early 20th century.  We've located a similar mirrored JJ 'anchor' (rounded, not squared style) - I'll post it if I can locate the pic.  The other carving (the zigzag) seems appropriate to the JWJ topic too. 

Now that JWJ has entered the conversation, then yes, old mines can possibly be important.  For example, what better place to hide something than in an empty hole?  Good luck and good hunting.

jooo
sorry your marks look natural..sometimes natural marks [rock incorporation] are used, but other signs , classic type would be nearby...
better to back track to where you found the last good sign and take it from there...
rangler

casca,
a pic of the double dogs will help, perhaps a janus monument, but I can't imagine why all
the dogs would be depicted that way...and if not janus, then an alpha monument will contain
both black and white dogs...no point in guessing, wil wait for your pics
rangler

Hello everyone.  I hope it's not to late to post to this topic.  I've been into metal detecting for a couple of years now and one site that I have gotten permission to hunt on has a wooded area and a cleared area where it's been used for farming at one time.  I've found lots of carvings on the site (very few on rocks and lots on trees), so much in fact I'm sure alot of it is just graffiti of one sort or another, but some it has me wondering if someone has hidden something there that they have tried to make a trail back to find it.  Anyway I have some pictures  of some of the markings I've found and I'm hoping these are pictures that will give you some idea of what I'm seeing.  

This first tree after reading some of the material here I'm thinking is some type of hoyo, but please correct me if I am wrong as I am sure I am and on the side of it from what I have read must be some kind of directional marker() and graffiti closer down on the tree.  Please let me know what you think.  Thanks for any help.:

looks kgc
and looks like someone tried to cover up markings
look through hoyo go in both dir to look for any other signs

I wonder if those letters "K W C"  might stand for the Knights of the White Camellia.  That was a forerunner of the KKK in many areas.

Thanks for the suggestions.  So that is a hoyo?  I thought it looked like the tree was made to grow that way....  Thats interesting about the KWC and KGC.  I've read some about the KGC, but not about the KWC.  I'll have to read some about them.  This next tree is in line with where the hoyo looks in one direction.  It has lots of markings on it.  Some look to be merely graffiti, but there may have been some purpose behind.  Some of other markings are signs or symbols that I've seen in other books and online.  I'm thinking in a way the symbols are trying to point out that there is something there and kind of telling what may be the next step, but I can't clearly define anything as there is so much going on on the tree.  Please let me know your thoughts and thanks for your help.

[WELCOME TO TREASURENET chc1023]

WELCOME TO TREASURENET chc1023 !  <2 thumbs up!>
Oroblanco

Thanks for the welcome Oroblanco!  Glad to be here!

Just a quick question.  I was just wondering, did I post this in the wrong topic?  I noticed there were others that probably were more related to my question.  Thanks for the help.

The second pic looks  like it might be something to me. The D in the U shape.  You could try posting the thread as a seperate thread,
tree signs as the subject.   I do not know anything about them Also look up Hoss's postings.

Thanks for your help.  I will definitely look up those postings and took your advice and changed the the thread I started to Tree Markings.  Thanks again.