Treasure Marks/Signs - Diagnosed Here

Wow, that's a real map!   Do you have any closer pictures of the markings on the top right?

This picture is the map from a different angle...

early american hippie. probably prescott college association.

Pippin ,
That jolted my memory , years back had a girl friend that went there 
Ed ,
There are quite a few more of them around , back behind the A bar V  , can't get to em though , private property , unless youz knows folks

howdy mesa...i used to have friends living in skull valley...every time someone from the college would come out the first thing they did was go make a rock circle...

now if you go over to granite dells...look careful around the south face of the boulders...there are rock circles from apache times...large..10-12 ft across...held there lodges in place...i found most just southwest of the creek.
silly people were using the huge rings for campfires...duh.
i also found a pit structure village up near ponderosa park...since the village is assaulted by the road, i might just give out that location...

Howdy Pippin ,
You sure are bringing back some memories I have of those places , I recall in 76 that I noticed some rather large fire pits just before the creek , several if not more if I remember right , and them dummies were camping and roasting weinies in em 
On the way out to Ponderosa Park , is a developement called Hidden Valley , there are some real good ruins up on top of a couple of those hills , state keeps a good eye on em if you know what I mean 
Then there are some mind blowing cliff dwellings on the upper Verde by Perkinsville , I have a hankering you know where I am talking about 

Has anyone ever heard of a underground Chamber/room collapsing and leaving a crater in the ground about 15 by 15 feet. I think I found such an area. It's a big hole in the ground except it doesn't look dug out. The ground looks like it just collapsed and is about 5 feet deep. It's in a good area.    Still haven't put the TM808 to it. I was wondering if anyone has ever seen or heard of something like this. Maybe someone just got there before me.

Howdy Pippin ,
You sure are bringing back some memories I have of those places , I recall in 76 that I noticed some rather large fire pits just before the creek , several if not more if I remember right , and them dummies were camping and roasting weinies in em 
On the way out to Ponderosa Park , is a developement called Hidden Valley , there are some real good ruins up on top of a couple of those hills , state keeps a good eye on em if you know what I mean 
Then there are some mind blowing cliff dwellings on the upper Verde by Perkinsville , I have a hankering you know where I am talking about 


mesa buddy
I was going to add that this fire pit was never used for a fire.  there is no smoked rocks.    Ed

Hey Ed..looks like  a map of some sort me!

Nice petroglyphs..looks like there was a battle...one against many? One guy died. 1329.jpg/1330.jpg. What a nice find


The fire circle..that u shaped piece of wood and the white rocks that seem to point, on the farther end seem unusual.

The only circle i have found had only two kinds of different  colored rocks .....

Ed,
Those "X's" in the lower pictures sure peak my interest. I was shown this one day, and the hole nearby that was dug up by a backhoe. No-one saw what came out of it but the guy who dug the hole was well off afterward. Sadly he stole this site from someone else. Anyway, you might be close to something

Pippin ,
That jolted my memory , years back had a girl friend that went there 
Ed ,
There are quite a few more of them around , back behind the A bar V  , can't get to em though , private property , unless youz knows folks

Mesa Buddy.      I had a idea that this rock has been reshaped to some kind of a bird, 
  Ed

Ed,
if you are in the area, go over to prescott valley...go down to the little park by the creek...over behind the swap meet.
across the river is a ruin complex. there is a wonderful example of how much labor the natives were willing to put out to move large rocks...there is a wall built there, looks defensive, goes from the narrows in the creek, up the hill for almost a mile.
this wall effectively blocks approach from the upstream side of lynx. the wall is made of huge boulders, stacked about five feet high, 3 feet deep.

easy walk from the car.

Pippin ,
That jolted my memory , years back had a girl friend that went there 
Ed ,
There are quite a few more of them around , back behind the A bar V  , can't get to em though , private property , unless youz knows folks

Mesa Buddy.      I had a idea that this rock has been reshaped to some kind of a bird, 
  Ed

Hi Ed ! ,
Wanted to thank you for sharing your pictures ! , looks like it has been worked to me ! , nice find !
Perhaps I can saunter up yer way and we can take a gander at some stuffs 
MB

Any idea what these numbers mean.     Ed

Ed, mi amigo

On the first picture you posted yesterday, at the botton of the picture.

I see  h 1 9-orQ- could the next to be an apple or some type of fruit.

and the last a fish.

I have a picture of that, that you gave me, or I took. I'm going to study
some of this today.

               Clayton

Ed,

In your second picture...
it looks to be one of two signs
both are used as the designer intended?
#1 Could be a Leo the Lion astrological symbol,
#2 could mean simply (reading left to right)
follow the trail up and to the right (around and then down follow the curve )

Thom

Thom,

This is just a shot in the dark. But, I was thinking could it also mean, inter here, exit here
no other way out.

        Clayton

Clayton,

To a degree you may be correct.
whether above or below ground...
it will be found following this way and no other.

Thom

And the 4 in the picture, the top part of it is kind of pointing up ward. that could mean 11

The way the "4" is written looks to be a sign for the bottom left half or quarter.
If as you say ... the picture is posted upside down and would refer to the upper right half or quarter.

Ed, mi amigo

On the first picture you posted yesterday, at the botton of the picture.

I see  h 1 9-orQ- could the next to be an apple or some type of fruit.

and the last a fish.

I have a picture of that, that you gave me, or I took. I'm going to study
some of this today.

               Clayton

Clayton   to me it looks like a pear 0614.     Ed

Ed,

It's interesting, could the land out there support a fruit tree?

And the fish "symbol" has several meanings

Look up

Look up for two rivers

Endless wealth..maybe jewelry involved.

          Clayton

Ed,

In your second picture...
it looks to be one of two signs
both are used as the designer intended?
#1 Could be a Leo the Lion astrological symbol,
#2 could mean simply (reading left to right)
follow the trail up and to the right (around and then down follow the curve )

Thorm Thanks for your imput.   In pictures 1 2 & 3 they were cut in the top of large flat rock ledge's.
Its hard to tell if # 2 is upside down or not.     Ed

[D29]

Early on in this thread, Springfield posted a map chiseled on rock that was quite a challenge
and he knew it, and since I was bold enough to open the barn door and say that I could
diagnose some treasure signs, Well I worked on if for hours and typed up a pretty good
solution and when I was proof reading it for errors, I forgot where I was and hit the delete
key and the whole damn solution dissapeared, I was crushed, but knew that if I did it once
I could do it again, and to my dismay , hours later, days later, I hit the damn delete key
trying to edit in the preview.
At any rate once I did  finish it I had it looked at by a collegue here that I trust and he pretty
much came to the same conclusion on most of the high points of the map and their solutions.

So I sat on the map for some time, because Springfield had thrown me a bone, but rather
contentiously, I might add. kind of a snooker bet, but I wanted to work on it and
show folks that I have some savvy when it comes to these signs and symbols after 20 plus
years, and was chomping at the bit to post it, but then Springfield would ultimately gain with
the solution now to dig up the goods,. Well I am not greedy and didnt break the codes on
the map for any fees, but I figured that if he were to find out that the solution was real...
that he mighty want to kick me down  an  'atta boy' so I thought on it for a while
and decided the best thing to do was to post it here, and leave out just a tiny bit the final
solution  a training example, so that all of those who are interested can learn,
and if old Springer wants to dig up the goods I will send him the final pieces of the puzzle
and not post the final clues until he has had a chance to go in the field and have the opportunity
to actual dig up the goods first.  Then when he is done with the site, I will post the last few
tiny pieces of the puzzle, Now remember that you are free to work on the final solution and that
is is solvable so dont think that you can't do it.. I did, that means in is not impossible. 'see what
I am saying'? Ok cool here we go.....long delayed but well played the solution to what I call
....the NIGHTMARE MAP..because it just looks like chicken scratchings, a treasure hunters
Nighmare..
( if someone can post the map from Post #7 Old Dog revered this map for us all and it made it stand
out better so Old Dog or someone Please post the map again next to this post so peoplel will not have
top scroll back and forth so far just to follow along. Thanks. rangler

here is solution for the first map..

u]mapa numero ono[/u]

Take a look at the 'cross' looking item with the outline..This is NOT a cross..not Templar.
but it is the an Amerindian/Mayan/Aztec symbol for 'Venus' the evening star - The Jesuits copied this sign from the natives as they are wont to do..they incorporated all the cultures signs that they were among.

       The reason is...That if they put an Amerindian mark down, the natives would think the
                             gods did it..If a white man saw it, they would think the Indians did it.

  Thus it is protected for good..and the Indians would think that this is a Sacred spot and would return over
and over again - down thru the ages..as is evidence at this rock, with the many layers of time..

Now the large Venus sign with the outline..I suspect that it can be confirmed that it is Jesuit by  taking a compass heading on the sign and it will read a Cardinal Point, heavily weighed towards North. My bet from this angle anyway.
This was done to make some very important albeit subtle points with regards to  other signs on this rock

Case in Point..look over to the right now and see the other Venus looking sign with the outline unfinished This is not an accident..this is purposeful..and deliberate..nice form of camouflage..

Here you will find that the cross is NOT a cross as the first glance my seem..remember the correct orientation is with the Venus  sign.(light bulb going on)..this is an X.....roman numeral for 10
and that little bit of unfinished outline is a 3 ..
so you multiply the 3 and the 10 you get 30 then you add the 3 and you get 33!! Why am i so happy? 33 is the years of Christ. Gotta love those Jesuits! They have a one track mind..so there it is ,,simple.. 33 degrees is the direction


Now look at the Spiral..it winds and terminates pointing to the Venus Sign (unfinished) showing that is the next step in the solution.Most of the stuff you buy off the shelf..will tell you that this Spiral means to go Left and it does in this instance..but not always, here I think would be accidental..it really means "go down"but the arroyo would be down from this spot..so the reason i am splitting hairs is I dont know the compass orientation..if the arroyo is 33 degrees then nuff said..

The rock incorporation - the natives were using RI long before the Spanish came to the New World..a great example of the SJ using the local cultures indigenous signs as their own. So if RI is to be used in this instance then there is an arroyo running north (or up) with two canyons coming together 'upstream' a ways..( I am sure this is dry) therefore the Spiral is pointed towards the arroyo..but in this case it is a false trail..the SJ loved to sent you off to the outback as far away from the goods as possible..and yes friends they were very devious..they would actually place a death trap on a false trail to add insult to injury..caution is advised.

Under the Spiral you will see a "U"  This is the vault..the nine lines coming out of it..are the depth..
dig nine varas/feet/meters/brazas/fathoms/yards/rods/chains/paces/ they used all of these!

If you look to the left and down from the U you will see two black dots..with a bar or line connecting them
this is the symbol for "look" You are to look for the panel that contains the 'final' sign that locates the vault.
This is the xxx xxxxx xxx..it will be xxxx xxx on the xxxx and xxxxx.... It also tell Exactly the distance to find this final sign,but I have not revealed that just yet.

So there you are folks.
I have left out a few tiny parts..to protect the innocent..this was a teaching exercise and as
any good treasure hunter will tell you - we can't tell you EVERYTHING!!! Beside the object was to teach you how to solve the signs not give you a location to go out and dig.
 
I might be wrong..always call ahead to  make sure the treasure is still in the ground..haha
remember....I am only a..

rangler.


D29The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us
 and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law.

Springfield's map from 1st page of this post (as reversed by Old Dog)

Very Nice Rangler, Thanks !!!

Thanks to Canadian Trout  for the quick post of the  map - appreciate that very much mi amigo!

Your welcome Victorio....
rangler

               Its nice to know your view regarding the treasure hunters here in the Philippines and how you defend the existence of the 'Yama treasure'. As a small time gold digger i have found some unusual stones in one of the mountains here....need help to know the meaning of these signs or markers.

[Thanks for your input, R. Following are my thoughts about your thoughts concerning the map. These are my opinions only, maybe right, maybe wrong.]

..... here is solution for the first map....

Thanks for your input, R.  Following are my thoughts about your thoughts concerning the map.  These are my opinions only, maybe right, maybe wrong.

Take a look at the 'cross' looking item with the outline..This is NOT a cross..not Templar.  but it is the an Amerindian/Mayan/Aztec symbol for 'Venus' the evening star - The Jesuits copied this sign from the natives as they are wont to do..they incorporated all the cultures signs that they were among.

Good observation, R.  Outlined, even-legged cross=Venus=Lucifer=Quetzalcoatl=Templar=Masons=Others, IMHO.  It's a mark of possession.

...If a white man saw it, they would think the Indians did it....

I agree.  Hidden in plain sight.

....the Indians would think that this is a Sacred spot and would return overand over again - down thru the ages..as is evidence at this rock, with the many layers of time..

Correct again, for reasons related to the creation of the carvings, IMO.

Now the large Venus sign with the outline..I suspect that it can be confirmed that it is Jesuit by  taking a compass heading on the sign and it will read a Cardinal Point, heavily weighed towards North. My bet from this angle anyway.  This was done to make some very important albeit subtle points with regards to other signs on this rock.

Correct again.  The mark of possession is aligned with the cardinal directions.

Case in Point..look over to the right now and see the other Venus looking sign with the outline unfinished This is not an accident..this is purposeful..and deliberate..nice form of camouflage..

Not camoflage at all, but extremely important, as you say.  Has more to do with topography, IMO.

Here you will find that the cross is NOT a cross as the first glance my seem..remember the correct orientation is with the Venus  sign.(light bulb going on)..this is an X.....roman numeral for 10 and that little bit of unfinished outline is a 3 .. so you multiply the 3 and the 10 you get 30 then you add the 3 and you get 33!! Why am i so happy? 33 is the years of Christ. Gotta love those Jesuits! They have a one track mind..so there it is ,,simple.. 33 degrees is the direction...

No offense, but this part is nonsense, IMO.

Now look at the Spiral..it winds and terminates pointing to the Venus Sign (unfinished) showing that is the next step in the solution.

Reverse it.  The 'unfinished sign' points to the spiral, IMO


The rock incorporation - the natives were using RI long before the Spanish came to the New World..  Boy, how true this is.  a great example of the SJ using the local cultures indigenous signs as their own. So if RI is to be used in this instance then there is an arroyo running north (or up) with two canyons coming together 'upstream' a ways..( I am sure this is dry) therefore the Spiral is pointed towards the arroyo..but in this case it is a false trail..the SJ loved to sent you off to the outback as far away from the goods as possible..and yes friends they were very devious..they would actually place a death trap on a false trail to add insult to injury..caution is advised.

The target is northerly, yes.  The rest you've said does not apply, IMO

Under the Spiral you will see a "U"  This is the vault..the nine lines coming out of it..are the depth..
dig nine varas/feet/meters/brazas/fathoms/yards/rods/chains/paces/ they used all of these!

Very asture, R!  The 'nine' has nothing to do with 'distance', however, IMO.

If you look to the left and down from the U you will see two black dots..with a bar or line connecting them
this is the symbol for "look" You are to look for the panel that contains the 'final' sign that locates the vault.
This is the xxx xxxxx xxx..it will be xxxx xxx on the xxxx and xxxxx.... It also tell Exactly the distance to find this final sign,but I have not revealed that just yet.

So there you are folks.  I have left out a few tiny parts..to protect the innocent..this was a teaching exercise and as any good treasure hunter will tell you - we can't tell you EVERYTHING!!! Beside the object was to teach you how to solve the signs not give you a location to go out and dig.
 
I might be wrong..always call ahead to  make sure the treasure is still in the ground..haha remember....I am only a..

rangler.

Pretty good stab, Rangler.  If you weren't so hung up on all this Jesuit stuff, and the 'King's Code' nonsense, you'd be dangerous.  I've got my own ideas about these carvings, and of course I could be all wet.  There's a lot more to the bigger story than just these carvings, which are only one piece of a puzzle.  IMO, the people who created these signs were more interested in topography than hard, fast rules of distance and angles, although these factors are evident too when you begin plotting this stuff on maps.  Thanks.

Brokenman,
Maybuhay - The photos of the items you found are pretty well camouflaged, you have
a good eye for this stuff, if you recognized them for what they are.

   the first one is of course a foot, and it simply means "travel on" in the direction
   the the foot is pointing, hope you took the compass heading or remember it.

   the second one is the holes, this is a direct take off the of the Spanish/Jesuits
  in that this triangle looks to be set at 60 degrees corners, and if you look close
  you will see an "X" on the right hand imaginary line from the upper hole to the
  lower right hole, this is where on the triangle that you must look for on the ground
  where the goods are buried. Look for half buried rocks or boulders, possible trees
  of the old and unusual kind.

 The last one looks like a horses or cattle foot. and if it is split then cow, solid then
 horse, cow stands for East in Spanish Treasure Code and the Horse is a death sign
 Remember the Japanese changed the signs most of the time, to suit their culture
 and tendencies.

For example the Spanish might use 330 degrees as a favorite "treasure heading"
, but the Japanese would alter this to be 90 degrees
as this is due East and that my kababayan is the symbol of the Rising Sun, which
as you know is their battle flag!! See what I am saying homie?

When you find objects in the future, always photo them " in situ" ie as they sit!
before you move them, and lay a compass down to show their orientation ,  as
this is critical to gaining all the data that they intended to show for a sucessful
recovery.

Sometimes these small carved rocks are found on the way down , when you dig at
the correct spot, these examples here are rather crude, and apparently small, so
you might be finding the "litter" from a previous dig, if they are just laying around
on the ground. If you found them on your way down , while digging then you  might
be on top of the correct spot. Use caution as many obsticles were placed in the path
of a digger to kill or maime or injury him , like poisen dust, glass vials that can be
broken with the pick or just stepped on, water traps using clay  pipes from a water
source, or just the water table itself, smart diggers always dig in the dry season to
start.
When looking for your triangle look for slash marks, made with machete high up on
some palm trees, very old japanese mango trees in combination with  rocks and boulders
look for turtle shapes, drill holes , ancient Kanja writing characters. Most of these sites
are within a stones throw of a water soucrce, a stream, spring, or river. Water traps are
used in every single instance that I know of.

Good luck and keep us posted if you find any more artifacts.
Salamat for posting here and welcome to the "club"
auferiously
rangler

Rangler,
  Keep the good work!!!
  stilldign

Stilldign,  "  YOU TOO "  keep the good Work !!! Mis your post !!! TAKE CARE.  Victorio

StillDign,

Thanks for the kind words my friend, it is so nice to see you here
StillAlive and StillKickin lol, We all miss your most informative posts
I have learned much from you and hope to learn StillMore!

I know you must be busy on lots of projects but your absence is
noticeable and I would hope that you will rejoin us on a regular basis
when time permits it.
Your tip the last time you posted about - when I ask you for the sign
of the Pozo was exactly right on - and when I passed this on to a member
here he found a perfect symbol of that sign almost immediately, We both
were amazed! It was the key - and that lead to bigger and better things.

Post here my brother, I need your help - and we all need your wisdom,
we got your back! -
auriferiously
rangler

[this is not nonsense at all but is in fact the modus operendi of this group and their activities!]

Springfield wrote.....
Pretty good stab, Rangler.  If you weren't so hung up on all this Jesuit stuff, and the 'King's Code' nonsense, you'd be dangerous.  I've got my own ideas about these carvings, and of course I could be all wet.  There's a lot more to the bigger story than just these carvings, which are only one piece of a puzzle.  IMO, the people who created these signs were more interested in topography than hard, fast rules of distance and angles, although these factors are evident too when you begin plotting this stuff on maps.  Thanks.


Thanks for the feedback and the complement Springfield, I appreciate it very much,  I dont think we are that far apart
as far as the basic field work is concerned,  As for being hung up on the Jesuits, it may be true, but for me, it is them
who have been teaching me, thru the last two decades, i am only a willing student. Oh and I am dangerous, but
few know it for a fact. As far as the Kings code,  there had to be a common key or thread that ran thru the code for
it to be viable, it had to be the same for the ones who laid it down as for the ones who dug it up, thats the pure logic
of it all. simple. to the point. period. It is always the code and the key! The King is not going to authorize the code if
he didnt hold the key. Matter of financial logic here.

I am interested in the bigger story if you are at liberty to inform, otherwise I respect your decision  to keep it close
to the vest. I agree with the topography, it is the overarching point of most signs, but the wild card is always the
distance and direction, which can only be expressed with precision with distance and angles.

I for one am happy to see that we can work together to a common goal and let the smaller differences of opinions
kinda slide for the greater good. Dangerous IS if WE get our heads together on a single project and apply all of
our effort and abilities to focus on a ultimate goal.

 I am game whenever and wherever you are!

This one tiny point of contention.....
Here you will find that the cross is NOT a cross as the first glance my seem..remember the correct orientation is with the Venus  sign.(light bulb going on)..(that means) this is an X (not a cross).....a roman numeral for 10 and that little bit of unfinished outline is a 3 .. so you multiply the 3 and the 10 you get 30 then you add the 3 and you get 33!! Why am i so happy? 33 is the years of Christ. Gotta love those Jesuits! They have a one track mind..so there it is ,,simple.. 33 degrees is the direction...

No offense, but this part is nonsense, IMO.

No offense taken, since it reveals how the Jesuits think and is very valuable as a teachable moment -however, since I am doing this via long distance and cant prove out my theories like I normally do
in the field before I come to the conclusion for the solution, YOU certainly can the next time you go there.. just take a compass
bearing at this mark of 33 degrees and see where it leads you..this is leg work I would have done on the site, before I made
the remark that this is what they meant. In terms of the way the Jesuits used numbers , clues, anagrams, cryptic puzzles this is not nonsense at all but is in fact the modus operendi of this group and their activities!
thanks for the chance to work on this, it was fun, and I would like to offer some more
solutions for the other marks as well - in the near future.
auriferiously
rangler

Rangler Wrote

" I for one am happy to see that we can work together to a common goal and let the smaller differences of opinions
kinda slide for the greater good. Dangerous IS if WE get our heads together on a single project and apply all of
our effort and abilities to focus on a ultimate goal. "



                                                                  You Said It My Friend, That is True Knowledge  !!!   
 

heres a cple pics to look @..1st has a perfect Vara size verticle triangle lower center..2nd has horse?dog? upper center i also have a better pic of the black heart in the lower rh corner of 2nd pic..Gg

Gg
Your pics are very dark and taken on a day with no sun, makes it very difficult to see much
of anything, however after manipulating the pic for a while, I did  see the triangle, at first
I dismissed it as a natural geo glyph as I could not see any confirmation marks, as is necessary
to know that the sign is real and not an act of Mother Nature, well I did find to my surprise a
very nice figure "8" kinda slanted to the left at the top point of the triangle. This puts it squarely
in the realm of man made and a nice treasure sign.

What is better if  you look directly 'up' above the triangle to the ONLY white rock on the whole
cliff face, you will see a couple of things, you must zoom in to see these, but there is no doubt
that the top half of a skull is apparent, from the eye sockets up, and behind this is an Owl!

Above the Owls head is a letter "C" and now we have the makings of an Alpha Monument!

The letter 8 stands for a cache, the owl confirms the 8, the skull says you are close to the burial
spot, the C says, perhaps within a 100 varas/yards/brazas/etc.!

The second pic, shows the animal face, but it is not a dog or a horse, but a hippo!, Yea , I know
but trust me on this - this is not my first hippo hehe, it can only be, the ears are very small, the
eye is tiny and placed at the 'water' level, the mouth is rounded and very large. The hippo in the
wild is VERY territorial and defended his space virgorously they are quite a dangerous animal.
Possibly standing for a death trap - and or a fairly large cache!

 There is a  'L' or a backward '7'
on the face of the hippo along with a letter 'T'.... the L is 50 in Roman Numerals and the T
stands for a few things, 1.Thomas, 2. Tesoro, 3.Tau - do your research on these and learn another
piece of the puzzle.

You have a good eye for this stuff having spotted that triangle, it is very subtle and could have
been easily overlooked! A close up of the heart would be nice to see if you want to post it.

I would guess that this cliff face is facing South and if so, you want to go south to look for the
Omega monument. It will be way smaller, kinda subtle as well, be sure to take any pics at high
noon, give or take an hour, when the sun is out, with your back to the sun, especially look for
an shadows, hoyos, where the Jesuits liked to hide the most important signs, since this is now past the
winter equinox, and the sun had  dropped below the 300 degree mark, so shadows will not
appear until later in the year, this is how they hid their clues for months at a time!

Look for faces, boulders, letters, ( letter M ) at the Omega site, the triangle shows the cache to
be buried at the number 2 position of the triangle ( see kenworthy on numbers ie triangles)
Find the Omega, the look for the triangle, then look for the number 2 point on the triangle.

Of course be forewarned that this cache might be gone, as this was directed to the King of Spain
to collect his Fifth as taxes on a local mine somewhere. The Kings men were pretty efficient
at recovery, but this one could have slipped thru the cracks. Good Luck

If you need any more assistance, I can hold the flashlight while you dig?     hehehe
auriferiously
rangler
 
"A stumbling block to the pessimist is a stepping-stone to the optimist."....... Eleanor Roosevelt

Ty Rangler for your insights.
Let me start out by saying I 1st came across this site viewing signs & posts from JACKO..after his Passing i didn't come in as often.
I had PM'd him a fair bit @ that time & he told me just go out & take some pic's of interesting looking places along your trail.( there is a well known Gold area with in 5 miles of this site).
those pics were taken @ about 7pm back in the summer of 2005. i looked them over @ that time & didn't see anything worth a second look. how ever after reading OD's thread here ( Basic Spanish signs.Link below)I went out & looked around the area which is the only way into this country & found a turtle trail marker with a confirmation mark..didn't have camera with me that day. & have returned since on  rainy & cloudy days & cannot find the confirmation mark again..dam.It is almost spitting image to OD's Post # 104 in thread
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,149002.100.html

i did take some pics of it but sun doesn't stay up very long here right now & they are way 2 dark to show.

I showed this site to a buddy cple months back & we both have discussed this thread (above link)so other night i showed him the pics above & he was the 1 who spotted the triangle.(have to give credit here our I will def hear about it).

I did see the 1/2 skull but not the owl or the C I also ignored the eye catcher..lol

as for south of the triangle there is only about 100m of terrain remaining there until u are greeted with an impassable position in any direction. it will be at least 3 months before I could stand @ the hippo or triangle i would think.

here is the other pic of the Black heart below the hippo.( Hippo just out of view here)lil diff angle has a surprising affect..BTW these pics were also taken approx 150-230 M's away..thnx for lookin Gg

[the C says, perhaps within a 100 varas/yards/brazas/etc.]

Gg
Your statement....." as for south of the triangle there is only about 100m of terrain remaining there until u are greeted with an impassable position in any direction."

this confirms my speculation :....... "the C says, perhaps within a 100 varas/yards/brazas/etc.!"

My error was leaving out the meters as one of the measurements that the Spanish used! So right at the edge of the
impassable area! This is the location of your Omega, due south or a SE angle.
auferiously
rangler

“Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.” ...........Siddharta, the founder of Buddhism, 563-483 B.C

I made a sketch as my pics turned out awful.  The place is very hard to get to and I didn't want to waste any time.  I have therefore made a sketch of the pics you see.  The two symbols in the upper left and right are D's, one forward and the other is mirror image.
APPEARS to be an olla(?) with a definate cross perched on top with an "x" in the middle of the cross.  A line down the center through a "double" D, the two (aforementioned) upper left and right D's as well as a lone D in the lower left (all inside the "olla" / upside down bell(?) or )

Today was my first time spotting this one and STUMPED.  Thanks in advance for any stabs at it.

Looked at it again after posting.  Kind of looks like the cross at the top is meant to "connect" with the lower sharp thingie to form a sword through something?

Do you have bigger pictures? The scratchings do NOT look very old.

Do you have bigger pictures? The scratchings do NOT look very old.

Hopefully going back tomorrow with my camera (vs. cell phone).  I'm very well versed in Spanish s/s and it "appears" to me that some of the components are old and others are not.  The place I am in is fairly loaded with stuff. (Virgin River area of SW Utah)

Will add pics when I get them ... as well as multiple other panels, compass rocks, masoned windows etc.

Look forward to it SW UT is a great place for these kinda things 

trespasser
 It's jesuit, the shape is the "treasure jar"
follow the pointed cross. it's the kings 5th!.

the two D's are Deuteronomy/chapter (D)4
auriferiously
rangler


D4 ..."these are the statues and judgments that I glve you thls day...."

trespasser
 It's jesuit, the shape is the "treasure cache"
follow the pointed cross. it's the kings 5th!.

the two D's are Dueteronmy/chapter (D)4
auferiously
rangler


D4 ..."these are the statues and judgments that I glve you thls day...."

Thanks Rangler

Does the DD verse mean anything to you?
Do you think the other 3 D's mean anything (outside of the "core" or center double-lined "D")?
"Follow the Pointed Cross", I assume to mean the direction of the top of the cross vs. the point (or sword tip) at the bottom.  (The latter would require digging beneath the symbol, so I assume the former)

Thanks again!

Trespasser

" D4.... these are the statues and judgments that I give you this day.."
(translation):These are the instructions and truths that I give you this day....

Anyone familiar with the Jesuits will know instantly that is one of the most
used Bible Verses to instruct the followers of these signs on what to do next

You don't dig, you stand with your back to the sign, take out a compass
and look straight ahead and take that compass heading,. and I will tell you
what to do next. You want Distance and Direction from this sign!!!!
The double sets of D's are to be used to say '8' and '8' - two caches more than likely
auriferiously
rangler

" D4.... these are the statues and judgments that I give you this day.."
(translation):These are the instructions and truths that I give you this day....

Anyone familiar with the Jesuits will know instantly that is one of the most
used Bible Verses to instruct the followers of these signs on what to do next

You don't dig, you stand with your back to the sign, take out a compass
and look straight ahead and take that compass heading,. and I will tell you
what to do next. You want Distance and Direction from this sign!!!!
The double sets of D's are to be used to say '8' and '8' - two caches more than likely
auferiously
rangler

Thanks again Rangler!

By the way, I took your earlier advice and tried another tactic ...
There's the "double" D (largest) a lone medium sized D and two small D's.  I tried 4th book, 4th chapter verse 2 (for the two small D's) and came up with this verse.  Number 4:2

"Take the sum of the sons of Kohath from among the sons of Levi, after their families, by the house of their fathers,"

This number is 2,750.  (just taking stabs at it)

Do you think there is any significance to the one small D being reversed?

By the way, I found a previously uncovered Spanish mine this weekend.  Long story for another time ... but it's very cool.  (Still artifacts in the mine.  Minor, but things like candlestick holders?)

Rangler wrote " You don't dig, you stand with your back to the sign, take out a compass
and look straight ahead and take that compass heading,. and I will tell you
what to do next. You want Distance and Direction from this sign!!!! "


                                                             That's the Ticket Rangler.



Could you say more on distance and direction and how to figure that out.

 trespasser wrote..
By the way, I took your earlier advice and tried another tactic ...
There's the "double" D (largest) a lone medium sized D and two small D's.  I tried 4th book, 4th chapter verse 2 (for the two small D's) and came up with this verse.  Number 4:2

"Take the sum of the sons of Kohath from among the sons of Levi, after their families, by the house of their fathers,"

This number is 2,750.  (just taking stabs at it)

Good attempt, but it is a false trail.. the Duet Chapt 4  IS the confirmation mark. This sign shows up on more than 50% of all
Jesuits caches.



Q: Do you think there is any significance to the one small D being reversed?
 
   A: Yes but it was only to disguise the letters themselves and hide the clues in general.


By the way, I found a previously uncovered Spanish mine this weekend.  Long story for another time ... but it's very cool.  (Still artifacts in the mine.  Minor, but things like candlestick holders?)

Might be a 1849er era mine, typical of them to leave things like that..not so the Spanish

auriferiously
rangler


P8 "Seek knowledge rather than silver, understanding rather than gold"

Rangler. Ive said this before.

I don't know where you and Stilldign get your info But, I have many times confirmed what you guys write here by pounding the desert. Thanks for sharing your  "  Knowledge ". , and thanks for that PM. 

Rangler. Ive said this before.

I don't know where you and Stilldign get your info But, I have many times confirmed what you guys write here by pounding the desert. Thanks for sharing your  "  Knowledge ". , and thanks for that PM. 

Keep me posted on your find of an ancient and outt dated desert ATM machine Victorio , but I wouldn't take this any of this nonsense to the bank before hand

Victorio wrote

Thanks for sharing your  "  Knowledge ".

Your welcome, anytime, it is a pleasure to work with
intellegent people who are sincere in their attempts find
and solve these puzzles. The ones with a positive outlook!
auriferiously
rangler

"pessimism is an excuse for not trying and a guarantee for failure".......w clinton

 Victorio wrote..

Has anyone ever heard of a underground Chamber/room collapsing and leaving a crater in the ground about 15 by 15 feet. I think I found such an area. It's a big hole in the ground except it doesn't look dug out. The ground looks like it just collapsed and is about 5 feet deep. It's in a good area.    Still haven't put the TM808 to it. I was wondering if anyone has ever seen or heard of something like this. Maybe someone just got there before me.

I have seen this once, near a river that was used by Indians and trappers, then later 49ers,  I thought it was a cache
like a fur cache or something of that nature, they dug the hole , stashed what ever, covered it over with logs or such
then dirt and rock , and years later the logs rotted and it caved in. I never did get back to dig it out, then it became
part of a park, that door is locked up forever now. ( not to confuse this with spanish caches, )

Also dont forget that 'dugouts' were the first houses for settlers and pioneers in some areas, especially in hot desert areas
so you never know. good luck and let us know if it beeps and you dig a little.
auriferiously
rangler

" a fool knows more than he is wise...a sensible man is wiser than he knows......lao tzu

Keep me posted on your find of an ancient and outt dated desert ATM machine Victorio , but I wouldn't take this any of this nonsense to the bank before hand

Where is the laughing hysterically icon?

djui5 Sir, I hope to save my " laughing Hysterically Icon " for that big day I take that big trip to the Bank. 

djui5 Sir, I hope to save my " laughing Hysterically Icon " for that big day I take that big trip to the Bank. 

Best of luck with that. I sincerely hope you do find something, as I hope anyone does.

What do the letters JW  a backwards 3 or E and the omega sign mean? I found them on a rock beside a huge bent tree. The on the tree the bent one was pointing to was a stick figure man about 10 feet above the ground with other markings below that I can't see well. I am going to blow up my photo to see what they may be.

Thanks
Dawgwood

Hi Dawgwood.  I just read your other thread in Cache hunting.  Here: http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,189006.0.html

You seem to have several really interesting points to your story and just may have something to pursue here.  You mention knowledge from the "old timers", found a bent tree, possible "pointer trees" with rocks enbedded into their "Y's", burried metal objects (line of horse shoes), and what certainly looks like a pointer rock on the ground. 

I'm no expert but have a couple suggestions.  First and foremost I believe you will have better luck and receive much better, detailed replies if you post some pics.  In your other thread you mentioned several times about I'll get a pic of this or that, or I'll blow that pic up and look, but have not posted them.  The people you're asking for help from really do need to see what you are talking about.

I would also post your story (with pics) here http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/board,78.0.html in the KCG forum just to cover your bases.

Pics pics pics pics pics and more pics!  Will only help

Hope the knee is better!  Good luck and keep us posted.

Trout

Hi Dawgwood.  I just read your other thread in Cache hunting.  Here: http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,189006.0.html

You seem to have several really interesting points to your story and just may have something to pursue here.  You mention knowledge from the "old timers", found a bent tree, possible "pointer trees" with rocks enbedded into their "Y's", burried metal objects (line of horse shoes), and what certainly looks like a pointer rock on the ground. 

I'm no expert but have a couple suggestions.  First and foremost I believe you will have better luck and receive much better, detailed replies if you post some pics.  In your other thread you mentioned several times about I'll get a pic of this or that, or I'll blow that pic up and look, but have not posted them.  The people you're asking for help from really do need to see what you are talking about.

I would also post your story (with pics) here http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/board,78.0.html in the KCG forum just to cover your bases.

Pics pics pics pics pics and more pics!  Will only help

Hope the knee is better!  Good luck and keep us posted.

Trout

thanks Trout:

I am still trying to find my way around this huge forum list! I went away for a year and came back and now there are so many people,places, things.

Usually when I have time to sit at the computer I don't have my photos, or life just gets in the way..........I will take your suggestions under advice and thanks again!

Dawgwood

dear rangler,i'm glad that i have found you, recently i have crush my window ,and some of my work is gone , but these one site that i have was easy to remember actually i own these property way back in phil.and the sign that i need your help is  ROUND CONCRETE POST ABOUT 4 INCH DIA.X14"LENGHT HAS LETTER,AND # ON TOP  BIG LETTER  S AND THE NEXT LINE IS 218, AND THERE'S A 2 1/2" INCH  SQUARE  NAIL   IN THE MIDDLE,AND THREE BARDWIRE INSIDE THAT CONCRETE POST INCLUDING THE NAIL. by theway i'm here in california now i wish to see ,if you won't mind i hundred thing in my mind that  need your expertie's hoping to hear from you soon       edong

dear rangler,i'm glad that i have found you, recently i have crush my window ,and some of my work is gone , but these one site that i have was easy to remember actually i own these property way back in phil.and the sign that i need your help is  ROUND CONCRETE POST ABOUT 4 INCH DIA.X14"LENGHT HAS LETTER,AND # ON TOP  BIG LETTER  S AND THE NEXT LINE IS 218, AND THERE'S A 2 1/2" INCH  SQUARE  NAIL   IN THE MIDDLE,AND THREE BARDWIRE INSIDE THAT CONCRETE POST INCLUDING THE NAIL. by theway i'm here in california now i wish to see ,if you won't mind i hundred thing in my mind that  need your expertie's hoping to hear from you soon       edong

Your concrete post sounds like an old claim marker.
or a survey marker.

Thom

edong
I agree with Old Dog - if your marker was found here in the US - but i believe that
this marker was found -'way back in the phils'- and that throws a new slant on the
item. The Japanese often used cement as surface markers to confirm that a cache
was indeed nearby. Of course you should also have carved boulders, animal faces
kanji script characters, drill holes, trees planted in triangles etc.

I have seen flat square cement surface about 18" square and about 3-4 inches thick
I see this just as an over all confirmation marker, now the S and the 218 could very
well be a compass heading- so keep that in mind.

Go back to the stone markers, a turtle, or fish, etc, this will direct you to the triangle
mostly designated by a very large and old tree, some not native to the Phils.
Some of the triangle points may be half buried rocks. Take photos of all boulders
and rocks at high noon, or so and look for shadows.

Regarding your photo, again I agree with  Old Dog it does look like Roman Numerals,
 however I dont see anything to confirm that this is not natural, since I see it out of
 context to other marks.

A suggestion is to stand at the cement post marker and take the compass heading to
the Roman Numeral stone and see if that heading is 218 degrees? If so this would
be your needed confirmation marker.

More pics of the other monuments if you can , will help unravel your puzzle!
auriferiously
rangler


"persistence pays"

Wow !! Very cool maps.

I've only been a member of TNet for probably a month now and I've poked around quite a bit in all the different threads.  I've learned quite a bit from the knowledge of so many people at TNet it's amazing,  but this site in particular has me intrigued.  I get out quite a bit in the woods snowshoeing in the winter, hiking mountains in the summer, and I live in the Adirondacks of NY so there's plenty of it but now I find myself looking at trees and rock formations like I didn't before,  I'm always checking for markers/signs.  I'm posting a couple pictures of a tree that I've always noticed as oddly shaped,  any chance of this being a marker of some kind?  Took the pics just today while out snowshoeing,  it has a sharp bend and what looks like a face or animal (buffalo?)head to me.  Hopefully I'll get an opinion or two.

j.raud
Welcome to the forum and thanks for posting your pic......
The tree itself , in terms of age is the first thing you want to look at.
This tree looks no older than 50 years - at the very most, even for a slow
growing hard wood, north of the softwood zone, that runs south
of the mid-state in Pennsylvania.
That puts the tree as a sapling in the mid 1940's, if a great snow fall
buried this tree, and deformed it all winter long , and later in the spring
the snow melt would release the tree but it would still be deformed.

I think that is what you have here., the hole in the tree at the depressed
area could be where the branch, was broken when the tree was jammed
into the ground.

What I would do, is to go in the direction of the pointed part and see what
you can see.. if it leads to water, or a rock out cropping or a likely camp
spot. This will help you determine if it is just a freak of nature or a pointer

It is defiantly not Jesuit, it could be KGC ....if there is some metal items buried
around the tree or in the direction of the point, Look for rocks and boulders
that might have marks carved on them, before you dismiss this one!

That is what I would do, if it were me and I came across this ... the other thing
kinda obscure, you can take a bore sample to double check the age of the tree
but I bet you  a can of chain saw oil that it is not over 50 years old.

Keep your eyes open in the woods and keep reading all the awesome theads here
treasurenet/
auriferiously
rangler

....."oh how the hidden things are sought up"

j.raud
Welcome to the forum and thanks for posting your pic......
The tree itself , in terms of age is the first thing you want to look at.
This tree looks no older than 50 years - at the very most, even for a slow
growing hard wood, north of the softwood zone, that runs south
of the mid-state in Pennsylvania.
That puts the tree as a sapling in the mid 1940's, if a great snow fall
buried this tree, and deformed it all winter long , and later in the spring
the snow melt would release the tree but it would still be deformed.

I think that is what you have here., the hole in the tree at the depressed
area could be where the branch, was broken when the tree was jammed
into the ground.

What I would do, is to go in the direction of the pointed part and see what
you can see.. if it leads to water, or a rock out cropping or a likely camp
spot. This will help you determine if it is just a freak of nature or a pointer

It is defiantly not Jesuit, it could be KGC ....if there is some metal items buried
around the tree or in the direction of the point, Look for rocks and boulders
that might have marks carved on them, before you dismiss this one!

That is what I would do, if it were me and I came across this ... the other thing
kinda obscure, you can take a bore sample to double check the age of the tree
but I bet you  a can of chain saw oil that it is not over 50 years old.

Keep your eyes open in the woods and keep reading all the awesome theads here
treasurenet/
auferiously
rangler

....."oh how the hidden things are sought up"

Thanks Rangler for the response!!  It's very possible this tree isn't much older than 50 years although it is one of the bigger trees along this trail.  Next time I'm up that way I'll take a right off the trail and into the woods to see what I find,  although the snow is still kinda deep in spots.  I'm not really sure what KGC stands for, can I have an explanation on that?  Oh and I'm in the Adirondack mountains so I don't think it's a water marker,  there's brooks, rivers, lakes, ponds, you name it ...it's everywhere.  There is only 15 - 20 miles away what is called the Ganienkeh territory...a 700 acre parcel belonging to the Mohawk indians, I was thinking maybe a connection.  One more question, how far would the next marker be if there was one? 

If it is KGC (Knights of the Golden Circle) The distance between markers could be as much as a couple miles.
If not...
Who knows?

Sorry to be a pessimist.
But the truth is best delivered up front.

Show me more signs ....
change my mind for me

Thom

any help?  picture of turtle's back. before other group of treasure hunter pulverized the other part of the boulder, the turtle has a head facing South, with 4 feet and a tail. thanks

krugger

2nd pictures same site/location with turtle boulder. the turtle boulder facing this heart boulder with huge slanting hole MOL 1ft. the distance from turtle boulder to heart boulder MOL 100 meters.

3rd picture stone with diameter MOL 1ft attached or inserted in the side of huge mixed with gravel and sand boulder facing NE.  same location with other 2 boulders the heart & turtle boulders. if you looked the aireal view of these three boulders it forms into triangle with unequal distance. thanks



krugger 

krugger,
The triangle is the key here I would think, with the turtle most likely to give
you the spot to dig..try to see if one of the legs is pointing 90 degrees
due East.
rangler

on this panel, the T sign is located at the left wing tip of the bird, and the x is located about five feet to the right and 18" down from the main panel

If you are inclined to work "by the book".
Measure from the line under the T to the ground ...
Multiply that distance X 10 and dig that deep.

These are Kenworthy's directions.


Rigmover,

sorry to sound so sarcastic.
They are some well carved signs.
A straight answer can't be formed untill a full view of the signs is known.
they must be in order as well.

Measure from the line under the T to the ground ...
Multiply that distance X 10 and dig that deep.


sorry to sound so sarcastic.
They are some well carved signs.
A straight answer can't be formed untill a full view of the signs is known.
they must be in order as well.

thanks, on the digging part, pretty much all the signs iv come across here are about the same high relief different colors and whatnot. i have never seen them so light as some of the ones posted on here.  i travel sometimes hundreds of dirt miles a day in about three counties, in and out of the canyons moving drilling rigs around.  the s/s are in that kind of shape for the most part  for this whole area

Here is a better view of your top picture.
The A may be a part of the whole thing.
There is a lot more here than you are seeing.

The hourglass says a days travel, go to the right at 90 degrees from these marks.
the trail does have inherent danger. more marks to the right about ten varas away. + or - 33 feet.

This is what this says.

Here is a better view of your top picture.
The A may be a part of the whole thing.
There is a lot more here than you are seeing.

The hourglass says a days travel, go to the right at 90 degrees from these marks.
the trail does have inherent danger. more marks to the right about ten varas away. + or - 33 feet.

This is what this says.

very nice, and to the point.  although there are no more marks on that western face, however, up and to the right over the ridge are markings indicating three days travel north.  probably a hundred yards or so from these markings.

i was just curious as to how someone other than myself and two others here interpeted those.  i was hoping that perhaps they were off by 180 as a reservation boundary prevents further research.

So the distance was greater than 10 varas
turned out to be 100. Good for you... persistance pays off.

just a small idea...


I am told that a hunting permit trumps that boundary.
Check with the Game warden to know for sure.
Be safe.


Thom

So the distance was greater than 10 varas
turned out to be 100. Good for you... persistance pays off.

just a small idea...


I am told that a hunting permit trumps that boundary.
Check with the Game warden to know for sure.
Be safe.


Thom

working on a rumor about a fifteen dollar annual antler collecting permit.  cause who dosent like to do that?

Be sure to check and see what will cross that boundary, Before you get busted for doing it.

[O1]

Thom
good solve there bud, appreciate the lesson too!
As for the "A" not only is it the largest sign here
(which hints at 'start here') it has a longer leg pointing to the
hours glass as you pointed out, this  simply means
to start at the hourglass to read the sign, which
you did very well, thanks again!
mi casa su casa
rangler


O1 "How are the things of Esau searched out! how are his hidden things sought up!"..... Obadiah 1:6

I think that is is prudent to post some information about how to recognize a verified Alpha
or Omega Monument, so that folks can recognize them for what they are, photograph
them correctly and then hopefully post them here for additional help if they need it.


Some basics, begin at the beginning....

Confirmation, yes  I am hung up confirmation because it is THE way to know......

     A. That I have a real Monument, so I don't chase ghosts or cloud reading type signs.
     B. The confirmation also give hints as to what to look for at the Omega
     C. Many false trails and monuments are avoided by looking for confirmation of each step
     D. The Jesuits never left you hanging, taking you from one confirmed sign to the next confirmed sign.

So what makes up Confirmation signs? Well for me and  my understanding the most common are:

     1.The Hoyo- the hole or opening in the Alpha Monument that you can see the sky through.
        At the Omega you will find hoyos that you see dirt through, this may be the dig here sign.
     2. Human or Animal faces, mostly in profile but other aspects as well.
     3. Numbers and Letters, number can mean compass headings, letter specific roman numerals
         or specific instructions like the letter 'A'.
     4. Bible verses usually are in form of Letter and Numbers like D4, P8, and O16
     5. Shadow signs, every Alpha I know of confirms itself with the very important shadow sign.

(ⓒ2007 all right reserved-this mushroom omega hoyo is a perfect example - the mushroom means cache!

Remember than the Code Makers knew that the background of rocks and boulders can make things
look like an animal head or a turtle or a Indian or monkey head, but without a confirmation sign
these are just natures handiwork, nice to look at, fun to photograph but not much more than art
in terms of what they can be used for.
 I think is was Thom (old dog) who coined the term 'matrix' in this regard,
as a great definition of what these type of 'signs' are..the natural crack, weathered shapes, or the
natural phantasmagorical shapes of volcanic tuff, granite or sandstone, may give naturalistic shapes
 that make things look like shapes, faces, things, but it is the background camouflage that the Jesuits
and Spanish and other used on purpose to fool you and I.
To separate out this background camo, the confirmation mark is the key! Look for the hoyo..I would
say that if you don't find a hoyo about 90% of the time..it is NOT a certified Monument! The things that
override the absence of a hoyo, are numerous faces, shadow signs, numbers and or letters.
Sad to say much of what is posted here and else where are just  imagination , nothing more.

The hard fast rule about proper photographing your monuments is as follows...
    a. Pick the right time, High Noon is the best, an hour either way is ok
        the very important shadows do not 'blossom' until the sun is high

     b. Stand with your back to the sun..keep your shadow and other things
         like trees, other rock shadows ect, out of the shot.

     c. Use a 5 megapixel or greater digital cam, because you want to Zoom in
        on your pics and crawl over each square inch of that rock, looking for the
        very important hidden number, letters, faces ect that not only give confirmation
        but more clues to the solution of Distance and Direction.
 
auriferiously
rangler

"..the truth is better delivered upfront"...old dog

I agree,
A picture of a very high resolution is the very thing to use.
But May I suggest also if you are in doubt...
Take several pictures anyway. you may discover the confirmation later,
while in the field you will pass over the suspect and go on to bigger things.
Only to find out later at home under scrutiny that the questionable one is the key.
If the pictures prove to be useless they can be discarded later.

what you find in a picture is many times the answer to what seems missing in the field.

Thom

That is true Old Dog
many of my finds have been after I looked at the pic
once i was home and on the computer, and the tweeking
of the pics , like you suggested reversing them a BIG
help, lots of sign are made in the reverse and hid very
well even to the experienced eye.....
hope this helps some
rangler

The Jesuits knew the concept of compression-their marks could be spread  out
and disappear, but with the compression of the camera lens, they re-appear!

The Basics...
The pictures you take are critical to your sucess

1. Take pics on a sunny day after the first day of Spring
2. Take all pics with your back to the Sun -Between 11am- to 1pm
3. Keep all shadows out of the shot, yours and other items.
4. For Alpha get the whole monument in the pic
5. Make sure if there is Hoyo, that you stand square to it..
6. Take close ups of any faces, letters, numbers, etc
7. Use 5 mega pixels or more so you can Zoom in close on your pc
8. Crawl over your  pics on your pc, like an ant, cover every square inch!

ⓒ2007-all rights reserved-rangler
this one is NOT anything more than a an art pic not much more than the clouds in the background!
If you find something of interest, post your pics here and we will along with
others, give you some feedback as to what you may have found.

Remember Mother Nature makes some phantasmagorical shapes of all configurations
and the simple act of seeing things ala 'cloud reading'  can lead you astray..what
separates the clouds from the real, is confirmation...these confirmation signs are
hoyo's, faces, numbers,letters, shadow signs, animal shapes.. without them , you are
in an 'art appreciation class' not a 'treasure hunting class' !

Some tips:
 The Alpha will be very large even Huge, if there is one, the Hoyo will have blue sky behind it
 The Confirmation signs will tell you what to look for at the Omega- really a data center.
 The Omega will be smaller, more subtle, the hoyo here , if there is one, will have the ground behind it.
 The Omega will tell you the type of Geometry to  look for as the final layout.
Each step of the way is confirmed, if you dont see it , that means your being led on a false trail
Look for a rock map somewhere near the Omega, sometimes at the end of a false trail.
Death signs are the ubiquitous lightning bolt, but the Bear, the Horse, Spider web are Death signs too.
 Both the Alpha and the Omega will tell you Distance and Direction
Depth is minimum the Height of the King, i.e. 5'9" more valuable it is 2x this depth so say 12'
Other keen treasure hunters say 14' to be certain. Beware of Rock Fall Traps and Water table traps.
Never take 'a chance' step back , photo the boulders, diffuse any potential traps and/or post here for help

Caution and  Common Sense will go a long way to keeping you Safe out there!
Hope you get that golden glow
rangler

" a fool knows more than he is wise, a sensible man is wiser than he knows" ...... LoaTzu
ⓒcopyright 2007-all rights reserved - this pic shows an omega monument with 3-4 confirmation marks, can you find them?

This one is worthy of a ride to the top

Rangler " In fact I have located the line with the circles in them "

Can You talk more on this Rangler. What do they look like and what do they mean.

Topic 173....try the phoenician language on for size....

since i was about 8 yrs old iv been able to spot unnattural things.  i could spot an arrowhead ten feet to the left or right at a jog.  still that way.  when im out and about in the field moving rigs i can point to an area and say to myself"if i were an indian, thats where i'd be".  90 % of the time im dead on.  iv even found aincient human remains in the field by that process.  kinda creepy, but hey the anasazi were not very particular about their remains. 
    On the same note, try to think as a spaniard.  if i were moving through here following a trail, where would i be.  i would be down on the easiest path to navigate with all relevant trail markers and whatnot visible from that vantage point.  if i have to scale a rock wall and walk on foot for a considerable distance to only view the marker from a particular vantage point, its probably irrelavent.  if i were a spaniard my izass would be on my horse chillin till it was time to do some diggin.  remember, these men for all intents and purposes were the badest men to walk the face of the earth and they knew it.
    now, iv never had the luxury of starting from an alpha, iv always come across markings and whatnot somewhere close to the middle or end of a trail, and on three occasions rolled right up on an "omega".  in all instances, there was something visible from where the main path would have been to make you want to walk on up and get a closer look.  on two of the omegas that iv come across, i reverse engineered the directions just for the fun of it and both were pretty simple working in reverse.  may not have been so easy going the right way, but it sometimes seems as though people way overcomplicate things, when the answer is right in front of your face.

    in a nutshell, try to think as the people whose footsteps you are following, and dont overcomplicate the situation.  Sometimes things are easier than they appear.

You are correct Rigmover

I have several sites that I have found and only one was from Alpha to Omega, most like you
were intercepted in the middle , and then did the reverse engineering to get the rest of the
clues!
Putting yourself in their shoes gives you huge insights to the terrain and their thinking, logic
and common sense are two good hiking partners!
Intuition IS the key component to take you from hobby to pro! They used it and if you do too
you take leaps of giant steps forward
rangler

Rangler:  Your last pic a couple posts up entitled "this pic shows an omega monument with 3-4 confirmation marks, can you find them?" has me stumped.

Obviously something there caught OD's attention due to his follow up post "This one is worthy of a ride to the top".  I'm not sure if he's offering a clue or not, or if he just knows where to go based on what he sees.

But me, I'm totally stumped dude.  Help?

[the ART is in the concealing of the ART]

CT,
Sure, remember these marks -for the most part are not Michelangelo sculptures,
I know you know that but for the students of basic training we need to set the tone.

The marks are subtle and meant to be hidden, in fact you will have to RE-focus your
vision to see these items.. I suggest you down load the pic as a screen saver, it is copyrighted
by me, but I know your not going to publish it anywhere, the reason is, it makes the pic big
and available all the time, and this might take some time. And its how I found my first marks.

an awesome eagle sun sign
ⓒ2009 all rights reserved-rangler

Here is what to look for..
   
             1. The overall shape is of a head and neck, snake? or turtle? or?
                 doesnt matter what as much as it  makes it stand out from the
                 surrounding landscape

              2. Now you must look in the middle of the rock, about halfway
                  your notice the darker color, and some shadows.. here is an
                  Indian face? Looking to the right in profile. On his cheek is the
                  number 7. Under the 7, lying on its side is a 3.

              3. Just up from this to the right the next small shadow is a tiny
                  owl shadow. Very close to this almost morphing it, because of
                  the time of day, later it will separate out to stand alone - is a X
              4. Over more to the right is a shadow of an arrow, the critters eyes
                  this means 'go where he is looking pretty plain. Under this
                  is the letter Y on its side, with the Left leg darker. Telling you the
                  trail spits, ( the robber Y)
  These items alone even without a hoyo, tell you that this is a verifiable Monument  but there is more.. I will leave the others for a good test, once you see the ones I  pointed out, look for the  others!

A word of caution, once your eyes refocus or your brain really, you will start to see signs
and patterns of signs everywhere! Even in pic of foliage! This is normal, your brain once you
teach it something new, is well trained, and wants to find these in everything. I have
seen this happen to myself and every single person I have taught to see these signs.

The secret is to pull back, and once your mind sees what you think is a sign, stop and
look for the confirmation marks, the Codemakers knew of this fact too and that is the
reason for the confirmation marks! That and the back ground camo can fool even the
most experienced pros. The balance is the key,  oh it is rare to see these with the naked
eye, the camera is your only friend here.

Oh here is one for you students of the Arcane, Is this an Alpha or Omega? and why?

Hope this helps CT - I appreciate the question!
let me know when you tork your brain over and SEE the light...ah er I mean the shadow..lol
auriferiously
rangler


" Ars est celere artem"
" the ART is in the concealing of the ART" .... old Latin Proverb
   http://www.scribd.com/doc/3190949/latin-proverbs-and-sayings
   now that I have Two latin tutors, I am safe to resume Latin quotes! lol

[it is rare to see these with the nakedeye, the camera is your only friend here]

......  A word of caution, once your eyes refocus or your brain really, you will start to see signs
and patterns of signs everywhere! Even in pic of foliage! This is normal, your brain once you
teach it something new, is well trained, and wants to find these in everything. I have
seen this happen to myself and every single person I have taught to see these signs.

The secret is to pull back, and once your mind sees what you think is a sign, stop and
look for the confirmation marks, the Codemakers knew of this fact too and that is the
reason for the confirmation marks! That and the back ground camo can fool even the
most experienced pros. The balance is the key,  oh it is rare to see these with the naked
eye, the camera is your only friend here.  .....

Really?  Did the "Spanish" use photography too to "confirm" the hidden marks?

Springfield
Really?  Did the "Spanish" use photography too to "confirm" the hidden marks?

I  know you have always had a smart ass attitude about my posts, but you continue
to want to avail yourself to what knowledge I do have, I just wish you would act more
like a civil person and a man about it..your negative snide remarks only thinly disguised
your obvious attempts at 'fishing'.

"where there is honey, there is bees"...old latin saying
That term is only used by people who pretend NOT to want the information.,for the most part the rest of the members of this forum, simply ask the questions straight out..simple, easy..but I guess your ego just wouldn't allow it.
You seem to need to condescend! This one leg up attitude gets you no where with me..
no one needs that..I truly think you know a lot, but you never write any posts where
you actually help  others, I think because you fear being attacked like you have attacked
me and others, I am not looking for a pissing contest.
 What I am looking for is cooperation
with you and others, to lay down a series of posts, that teach and reveal information and
data, not trying to impeach what truth is laid out for folks. /rant over/

In the greater interest of others gaining this information , I will answer your question this time..
Please in the future, just ask the question , if I know anything about it, I will simply answer
with no further editorial content.
~~~
Really?  Did the "Spanish" use photography too to "confirm" the hidden marks?

Yes actually, well kinda..I have written about this in the past a couple of times..but it is
the Concept of Compression! The Codemakers understood and received this concept
for Galileo's telescope a timely invention, that was very expensive and NO ordinary
person could afford. This gave them tremendous security in the hiding and concealing
of there signs.
When you look thru binoculars or monocular the field of veiw is greatly compressed in order
to magnify the area of concern. When that happens the elements of the sign or symbols that
purposely spread out as to NOT conform the normal focus and understanding , are by that
nature are HIDDEN...then once you view the area , thru the magnification the area becomes
foreshortened and magnified and COMPRESSED.

Once the image is compressed the shadows and sunlight planes are squeezed back together and NOW can be seen with the normal focus that we are born with..Perfect camouflage, little known, the lenses to uncover these items at the Codemakers time was rare and expensive. Again perfect security..
They just didn't know about the future and camera's and computers..try this for you self..take a
cheap disposable camera in the field, to a known site, that you known the signs are there..but cant see them with the naked eye. When you look thru the camera lens , you will see the >compressed< image and see for your self what was invented by the Codemakers 300 years ago!
So there is your honest answer to a smart ass question
rangler

:nothing new under the sun:..bible verse

  Yes!!    And my guess is the Codebreakers in the Expeditions,, were trained from a young age to read these signs,, and too what time of the year they were best visible,, and also the time of day!! The Codebreakers were Professionals of their day,, they not only knew what signs to look for,, but where on the trail, these signs would be!! They at the very least worked 6 days a week,, and only the very worst of weather would keep them in camp!          TD         

PS. They Did not have Easy Chairs in Camp!

" Accepting This Reality Without Questions,, Makes Possible Their Deceptions "  td

Obviously something there caught OD's attention due to his follow up post "This one is worthy of a ride to the top".  I'm not sure if he's offering a clue or not, or if he just knows where to go based on what he sees.

If you practice this long enough It can seem that way. You just naturally follow the trail. Can't say it is instinctive, I can see where these guys walked. Maybe it is that 6th sense you guys speak of.
It could also be more than 35 years of experience. Just do it long enough it becomes a natural thing.

I can see where these guys walked. Maybe it is that 6th sense you guys speak of.

I know exactly what you are talking about.  i can walk up on a campsite/ruins look around and almost see the aincient people walking around me. to me its a very peaceful feeling of confidence. 

Greetings Argonauts
Please try to understand that the normal everyday focus of our eyes and brain
is to see what the sun lights up, and ignore the shadows. This sounds like a simple
sentence, but I assure you that normal focus you are missing half of what is displayed
by the Monument builders and the code makers~!
A good exercise to do download a known monument and save it as your screen saver
and look at it everyday, and I will tell you that, one day, your eyes will refocus and you
will see the shadows and the signs as they are meant to be seen, by the makers.

Practice this and soon you will be able to see what is hidden in plain site!
rangler

Yes Rangler, you once again are right. I have all my photos saved on three different flash drives. Every now and then instead of flipping channels on T.V. I study my pictures. You will see things that were there the whole time and missed because of lack of experience. Yes you will always have the once that will say it is just natural but I have found as many as 10 signs in one given area all confirming one another. " JUST LIKE YOU SAY ".

Thanks Victorio
and you might try reversing them as well, once you have gleaned
what you can in the regular format, as Old Dog has shown here
when you reverse the image other things pop out that where hidden
the Jesuits were BIG or GIB on reverse images~~Left most people
out of the loop, not to mention backward letters or numbers as well!
rangler

Yes sir,
I have said a few things about reversed letters and numbers as well
the most important part of the trail is to see the signs.  ALL OF THEM.
if you miss a few you will find your self on the trail to who knows where.

Pay attention to detail and you will stay on the true trail through history.

[Lost Horse]

Greetings Argonauts
Please try to understand that the normal everyday focus of our eyes and brain
is to see what the sun lights up, and ignore the shadows. This sounds like a simple
sentence, but I assure you that normal focus you are missing half of what is displayed
by the Monument builders and the code makers~!

I agree with that statement
Here is a Photo of a Site I am currently working on
Which soon will be Posted on my thread

Here is a good example of one out cropping having so many messages
Depending on the Direction your coming from
And also the Time of Day is a big factor

If you don't take your time you will surly miss out
on some of the most incredible works of Rock Art
that was left behind in secret

Lost Horse