Here it is!

A picture of the inside of the cave with the mine entrance.  This is the rich mine Swift spoke of in his journals.  I found it April 25th of this year (the last mine I had to find).  I also have pics of the cave entrance and all the surrounding landmarks Swift mentioned (they will be pictured in my book).  The main entrance was on the second ledge, in red sandstone and had a chestnut burr rock above the entrance, just as Swift stated.  Also, I have pics of all the surrounding landmarks, as well as the other mines, landmarks, etc. Swift mentioned.

The wooden planks inside the mine have been found to be locust.  A sample is currently being carbon dated and I will include a result of the dating in my book as well.

My good friend, Ralph Hurst, is the person who is having one of the wooden planks carbon dated for me.  He has already had the wood confirmed to be locust (as I suspected).

Also, Ralph and I have talked about the entrances to the mine and cave being once sealed with masonry.  From showing this pic to some experts on the Coast, Ralph has also had a confirmation that this mine entrance was more than likely once sealed with Colonial Masonry.

When my fiance' and I first entered the cave shown in the pic, it was undisturbed.  There was a 7UP can that was inside the cave (as can be seen in the pic).  This, I believe, due to the undisturbed nature of the cave, was simply thrown in by a Deer Hunter in the past, as we had to get a rope/ladder to get into the cave ourselves.  The opening of the cave is about the same size as the mine opening in the pic - the size of a hogs-head barrel.

   THAT... is a WOWSTER! 

Thanks Rebel.  I still hope you can make it down for a tour after my book is out.

I had gotten several e-mails from people wanting some pics of some of the markers, I simply decided to show the inside of the rich mine to everyone instead.     Plus, this would put the skeptics to bed!

L37 the pic. is of the INSIDE of the cave.  I have not shown the outside pic of the cave opening on the second ledge - that will be pictured in my book.  I only showed the inside of the cave the rich mine is in (with the rich mine opening) b/c it was not outside and nobody could get an exact reading of where the rich mine is from this pic.

As for the turtle back rock, I have shown pics of it to a few people, including Mike Steely, who said it was "definitely a turtle back rock", unlike some he had seen claimed to be turtle back rocks.

L37, I don't know what your "agenda" is.  However, I have pics of ALL the landmarks and will give readers their exact locations (and locations of the mines/furnaces) in my book.  AND, these locations match Swift's journals EXACTLY!  I even walked off the poles from one of the furnace rockhouses and the tree with the large limb is still there (only there is a "dip" in the ground where the kegs of crowns once were).  I have shown this pic to only relatives and Ralph Hurst, but it will be in my book also.

Again, what a lot of people "forget" is that Swift mentioned the rich mine was in a cave or a "bear's den" (when Munday and his father tracked a bear to the den and found the rich mine inside the den or cave).  THE PIC ABOVE IS NOT THE OPENING TO THE CAVE OR ENTRANCE - IT IS THE INSIDE OF THE CAVE AND SHOWS THE RICH MINE OPENING!  The actual cave opening is in red sandstone, on the second ledge of a cliff, AND has a chestnut burr rock IMMEDIATELY ABOVE THE OPENING.  Also, it is behind the rock fallen from another rock as you go down the clift on the drain the mine is on AND the next larger drain over (will not give a direction here, but will in my book) has a haystack rock at the head of the drain - again, I have shown these only to family and Ralph Hurst as of now.

Also, I have pics (in the vicinity of the Rich Mine - that I will give directions to in my book) of the half-moon rockhouse, buffalo rock and the table top rock.

I am 110% certain I have found all the mines (even the first one mined before the crew moved their operations), as well as the two furnace rockhouses or caves AND an even more ancient furnace that was probably used by the Shawnee BEFORE Swift and his crew!

I also have found physical evidence, including a Silversmith's "chasing hammer" with metal handle from the 1700's (at the furnace rockhouse on a ledge between it and the waterfall), the wooden timbers inside the rich mine (which Ralph has already found to be locust and is having the date checked by some very reputable sources), among a couple other "surprises" that will be in the book! 

L37, if you don't believe, that is fine.  All I ask is that you read my book when it comes out.  After you see all the pics and I piece the puzzle together for the reader and tell them where they can go view all of these wonders for themselves, you will be positive I am correct as well!

L37, it is funny you talk about my "location" being wrong for Swift's mines.  I don't remember telling the location on here to anyone at all.  The only member of this forum who knows the locations is Ralph Hurst.  I have been all over the mountains of KY hunting for around 30 years, so I am also familiar with this area.  I do know, as in the case of the late Paul Henson, one might find a couple of Swift's landmarks in an area.  However, neither Henson nor anyone until myself has found all of the landmarks in the areas Swift gives them in his journals.

The main reason I am not revealing any locations yet (before the book comes out) is NOT to sell books.  These type books will NEVER be on the NY Bestseller list - I know that.  I would be lucky to sell enough books to cover my expenses in fact.  The reason I am not revealing any locations yet is b/c I don't want someone else to get credit for my work and Ralph is coming down this Fall/Winter to aid in some ongoing research related to Swift.

You state a tree 250 years old would be "petrified"!  Well, this is completely WRONG!  If you visit any National Park, you can find trees well over 500 years old still alive and well.  Tell you what, I am so confident this tree is at least 250+ years old, you get a tree expert with the proper credentials (from a University or State/Federal/Private employee who specializes in aging trees) and I WILL take this person to the tree and let them get a "core sample" to properly age the tree.  The only thing I would ask in return is a copy of their results for my book.

As for the silver veins, it is going to require some MAJOR EXCAVATION to open up these mines to reach the veins (where Swift and his crew sealed and covered their work when they left in 1769).  I have excavated back 12+ feet into the mine shaft at the rich mine, as I simply wanted to reach the moulds (which would be irrefutable proof).  However, the mine shaft is simply too small to excavate more than a half-shovel full of dirt at a time - it is really only big enough for someone of my size to fit in - not work in.

I am sure their will be skeptics.  However, when I put all my evidence together in book form, it will be hard for people to refute.  Also, I am sure there will be people who wanted the mines to be in other locations and will be angry and continue to believe they are correct.

Again, when I refer to these landmarks as being a small part of my proof, I am NOT referring to the fact that I found these landmarks, as you mentioned - they can be found in many areas.  This part of the proof is that these landmarks are the distances and locations from the mines and two furnace sites that SWIFT stated in his journals!!!!!!!  You will NOT find two areas this exact in the world (exact to Swift's directions), much less KY and the Appalachians.

One last thing - you state that you are not writing a book and I am (which is why I won't show more).  Well, then you CAN show us the mine and everything - go ahead, as I would LOVE to see your pics!

L37, below is a post you made in this Swift section, that started another thread about the mines (down from this one).

I hate to say this, but over half the carvings you mention seeing in your area were NEVER mentioned in any of the 30+ Swift's Journals I have read!  Sure, there are several old carvings in different areas and several "landmarks".  Again, the key is to find all of them together and in the "areas" Swift states (in relation to the mines, rockhouses, etc.).  Also, from my research, Swift did NOT mention any carvings at the actual mines (nor would he have wanted to carve anything too close).  The carvings Swift mentions are "on the trail to the mines" - starting at various spots in the journals and around some of the cache sites.  The only indentifiers Swift ever gave that were close to the mines were shapes of rocks and descriptions of the mines themselves (ie: on a second ledge, red sandstone, opening the size of a hogshead barrel).

I have found the blue rock with three "chop marks" on it where Swift buried crowns.  However, most all of the other "signs" he gives in the journals (in relation to the buried caches) were carved on trees - these are no longer standing anywhere near the blue rock.  YOU, YOURSELF, stated there are no trees 250+ years old, so how did you find any of Swift's signs then?

There has been a lot added (and some subtracted) to most Swift Journals through the years.  Also, I will give a few reasons in my book why the latitude and longitude numbers are NOT reliable, even if the journal one has was copied PRECISELY!

I am NOT saying you have not found a mine or mines.  However, from the symbols you state, they seem to be Indian and maybe Spanish mines but NOT Swift mines - especially the 1717 carving you found (which predates Swift by decades).  Also, as many Swift buffs will tell you, people made carvings in the KY mountains (and other areas) as early as the early 1800's, trying to sell land or sell someone a journal or scam money some other way.  I have spoken to several people in the area I found Swift's mines and have heard stories about people, especially during the Depression, carving trees and rocks with JS and other signs supposedly associated with Swift.  The few carvings I have found that I believe to be Swifts I had to hunt HARD to find as they were covered with moss from age! 

Again, ALL of the Swift Journals I have read (which I believe to be from the same original source, as there are too many similarities, which I will cover in my book as well), NEVER state Swift carving anything near any of the mines!!!!

There are many carvings and petroglyphs associated with the John Swift Silver Mines, here are the ones I know of that are documented by very good sources and what I believe pertain to his upper mines, there are many, but first let me point out a few things.
I know where many of the carvings, I am going to mention are located and others approximately, because I have not been there to observe them but they are there and documented as well, by very good sources and are nearby as well. For over 30yrs I have studied the lengend, folklore and various stories and books by Paul Henson and Ralph Volker, Draper manuscripts fragments an other details etc.  as well as,  and most importantly the carvings and petroglyphs on my trips to the area of the mines. Some of the carvings were left by the Native Americans Indians, as well as, the many early european pioneers, traders, and miners that were with Swift, and later on possibly some of their relatives and maybe even local people who may have known or know of them presently. ( this is a good reason for one to be prudent when looking for the mines, as well as, other dangers).  Over the years I have marked the locations of the various carvings and petroglyphs, that I know of, in the area that I search, on topographical quadrangle maps. I will only say that one can follow the carvings from a certain point that Swift mentions in his journal and by deduction and carefully studying their locations and extensiveness thoughout Ky, "will leave you asking some some very important questions, to yourself as it did for me. After careful scientific study through the techniques of map surveying and topo art, ("which is" using the "carvings" as small geo maps, to match the topography of the surrounding terrane)  and many years of deduction and by paying close adherence to Swifts journal, by keeping in mind the landmarks and geologic structures that he mentions, that "have to be present" within the mine area, the route "he said" that "he" traveled  and the objective that he was trying to find,  to locate the mines on his first trip, as well as, taking into consideration the routes, trails and traces and gaps that "he said he" was using in his journal, as he came into and out of KY, and the locations of the carvings" historic markers etc., "will lead you to the area of his upper mines". This is still a very large area once you get there. It took me many years to narrow it down within the area, I have always believed them to be in, "and believe me it is a needle in a haystack". By taking the carvings and applying them to the terrane through the techniques of, (Topo art) and extensive scientific map survey of the locations of the random carvings, in my area, as well as, very good familiarity with the surrounding area and knowledge of its early and recent history, etc., I have been able to discover their location exactly. Now here are the carvings that I have studied over the years, some of them were very useful and are evidence in themselves topographically of the exact location of the "Upper mines". Remember it took many many years for me to narrow the location of the mines down, because there is much redundance in the surronding topography of the terrane, "but this is exactly why many of these carvings were used" these men were smart and knew the area very well and carefully chose these carvings so as not to give away the location of the mine, but back then they would never have dreamed of topo maps. Enough said!, here are the carvings I know of, I will try to describe them, (Blackburns Anchor, the S.J.M, the 101, the M, a dot above it, the notched "S", The lettters EP, RR and FF, the skull, the foot, the perpendicular pair of feet, the bear paw, the left hand, the shell turtle, the circular turtle with head and feet and tail, the vulva, the turkey track, the bow and arrow, the 7 and 5/8, the 102..^, the circle within the circle, the oval within and oval with two elk tracks next to it, three pair of elk tracks, the half sun with three rays, the smiling sun with sunglasses and a j-shaped mouth,  1717t, .WW.,  the stick man, the mans face, the indian head, the spanish soldiers head, the insect or six legged bug, the figure eight, the human figure of head and shoulders, and the most important one, " the hexagon or square compass and trowel", as well as, other carvings,,motiffs and indian symbols. These are the carvings I am familiar with and the ones I used, which proved to be enough. They are the key carvings to finding the exact location of the upper mines, and their significance pertain to the Lost "Upper "Silver Mines of Johnatan Swift. Remember in the area of the mines there must also be a lighthouse, a buffalo rock, a haystack rock, two monument rocks - (one twenty five high the other thirty five feet high) out in front of his rockhouse, which faces east, a hanging rock, a staircase, a peculiar rock, a rock that stands, a rock that leans against the cliff, all of these must be present there are other facts and details as well. All of this, I have studied and searched for over the many years and many trips to the area, and by using the science of deduction, map survey, and topo art techniques, historical evidence, etc. and great familiarity of the land and much diligent study and fun!, has finnally payed off and lead me to, the exact location of  the Lost "Upper Silver Mines of Johnathan Swift. I am presently and actively persuing my discovery and (I am presently reproducing a historical chart, through map survey), which would be a facimilly or reproduction of the survey lines or important survey papers that Swift lost to the Indians when he was attacked, which may lead, "in the future " to the discovery of the lower mines and other caches buried by Johnathan Swift, hopefully!, I will keep ya'll informed, scoffers too. 

                                      Sincerily
                                   Swifty (L37something/Johnny's Lighthouse)

Only post i see are yours and rebel,who are you talking too?

Only post i see are yours and rebel,who are you talking too?

Good question.  I was wondering the same thing. 

Guys, there was some post on here by L37 - it is gone now.  

I NEVER said I found the upper mines of Swift's.  I will explain all of this in my book.  You are correct about what you stated Swift stated (went SW along a Great Ridge).  You are simply starting at the wrong spot I believe.  I will tell where Swift's crew split up AND give evidence that Swift worked the LOWER MINES!  Also, there were TWO Swift's (John and William) in the crew and Montgomery worked with them as well at the LOWER MINES!  Again, I will explain all of this in DETAIL and I have found ALL of Swift's markers where he stated they would be in relation to the rockhouses and mines (and have pics of them - Ralph has seen more than anybody except myself and immediate family).

BTW - there has been Silver found in the area I am in as well, not simply Silver in a creek, but Silver Crowns/bars/ore and kettles, furnaces, etc.!  I do know of a few Silver Mines in the areas you speak of - however, those were French Mines and I will detail this in the book as well.

Also, I KNOW the river Swift did not know by name!

One last note - I will answer any/all questions by anyone here.  I am simply not at the computer 24/7 and it may require a day or two for me to get back and post an answer.  Don't get bent out of shape, as I will respond eventually (unless I am sick or dead).

You are correct about Gist.  I also have some more info. on him and his relation to the Swift crew. 

As for the river, I am not mentioning the name here.

You, as Henson and others before you, state that Swift went SW and the rest of the crew went W when they split up.  Fine, my old copy of a journal says the same exact thing.  HOW IN THE HECK DO YOU GUYS GET THAT SWIFT WORKED THE UPPER MINES THEN??   If you go W and I go SW, I am going to be BELOW or SOUTH of you!  Swift was SOUTH of the other crew members - hence, the LOWER MINES!!!!!!!!  Also, I have other information which supports this as well, but will not go into detail here.

BTW - did you see where I mentioned I found an old tree that had Gist's name carved in it at the top of a clift?  Gist played a BIGGER role in the mines than people give him credit.  He even did some smelting near Coeburn and hid some Crowns as well!  I have been in touch with people who have searched that area in the past (or their relatives did).  Unfortunately, the smelters are now gone, but I have info. on them that I will write about and info. that points to Gist.

I do believe you (Beale) know what you are talking about, as you make MANY great points.  The only one I disagree with is that you seem to believe (as did Henson and others) that Swift worked the UPPER mines, when the journals SPECIFICALLY state he worked the LOWER mines!

Also, in my research, there were more than one Jonathan Swift in Alexandria.  There were NO Jonathan Swifts in the Yadkin, but were FIVE William Swifts! 

That's enough "fishing" on your part - you will have to read the book next year for specifics.

Also, I have always thought it would be easy to take the Gist Journal and find the ore he spoke of (that shown like brass).  IF it is gold and has not been mined, and is as rich as Gist stated, it would be well worth the trouble!

This is an interesting topic....look forward to updates.

As for trees....I can also atest to very old trees still stand tall and proud....we have one at our Boy Scout Camp, which has been named the PIPSICO TREE...it's 400 years old!!! A Huge CYPRESS!!! Here's a pic.....next time I have to remember to get the whole tree...of course, from a distances!!!!

Good luck on your research!
YIS & YIMD,
Annmarie

R&A thanks for your post.  You are so correct about there being trees still standing that are hundreds (and many trees that are thousands) of years old.  The tree I have pics of (that Swift buried Crowns under) is still not large, except for the large branch Swift mentions near the bottom of the tree - it is HUGE.  Also, I believe the tree survived a lot of the clear cutting by being in a rough area near a creek, as other trees Swift mentioned are long gone.

As soon as my search for the Great Cave ends, I will publish my book and have it available.  NOBODY will be able to dispute any of my findings as I have pics of everything, old maps, journals, and everything is where Swift stated - even down to the exact pole from the main furnace rockhouse!

Beale, one last thought on one of your statements.  You stated Swift and crew could have traveled as fast as the long hunters - 20-30 mile per day.  There is no way Swift and his crew could have traveled this fast.  First of all, they supposedly had several mules.  Going to the mines, they would have had several supplies/tools/etc.  Coming from the mines, they were weighted down with silver crowns.  Myself, as well as many other historians, researches, etc. have about the same conclusion - that Swift and crew would have been hard pressed to travel 15 miles per day - especially given the pack train size and terrain.  Anyone who has been in this area of KY knows how clifty and full of laurel the area is.  To make his journey "shorter", Swift did use mountain man techniques (following ridges and creeks/branches) and did follow a lot of Buffalo trails - this is the only reason I have given his crew the benefit of a doubt of traveling 15 miles per day.  TBH, I have researched areas on topos/old maps/other maps/etc. and said to myself this is only around a quarter of a mile at most, I will be there way before noon, get this done, and be out at this time.  Well, it is an entirely different story in this area of the mountains!  I remember finding Swift's first mine (the one he mined in 1761 before moving to the other three richer mines).  I didn't travel over a quarter of a mile, and didn't find anything until I went out (almost dark - after I started at daylight).  I found this one that day by PURE LUCK, as I found it following a game trail out of the area!  Again, I had the advantage of topos and other maps as well, that I researched before going into the area!

Beale, I have stated several times I will not make any "profit" on the book.  I will however show people where the mines are in B&W and they can go to the places and see for themselves as I have done.  That is all I want to accomplish - be the 1st to write in book format where the mines are at.

BTW - I KNOW the caches are long gone, as I have found the sites and the large "dips" in the ground.  I NEVER stated Swift or his crew found all of them.  Most look as if they were found 50-100 years ago by the looks of the overgrowth.  I also have some good ideas on who found them (including one of my "friends"!).

Again, here is YOUR quote from above (and it is also stated this way in MANY of the Swift Journals I have read/own).  IF SWIFT WENT SW AND THE REST OF THE CREW WENT WEST, SWIFT WOULD BE BELOW THE OTHER CREW MEMBERS - HENCE, THE LOWER MINES!!!!  Simply b/c Henson or someone else (seems like you have read Prather's book as well, with some misinformation you have) wrote Swift worked the Upper Mines, doesn't mean he did - ESPECIALLY since Swift himself states he went SW and the rest of the crew went West!  The next year, he simply states they cast lots to see who worked which workings and doesn't mention where he went - although, reading his journals, it seems he pretty much stayed at the lower mines he worked the first year when the crew split and he went SW.
Swiftsearcher, I know you are pretty sure of what you have found as it being the upper mines of Jonathan Swift, but I have to differ. First of all Swift said he went along a mountain range to the sw

Also, IF Swift as you mentioned lived until the 1830's, he would have been over 120 years old!!!  I say this b/c most every journal of John's states he was born in 1712.  Also, the consensus is John Swift died in 1800.  I believe you are getting these wrong "facts" from Prather's book.  Prather did a lot of good research.  HOWEVER, he speculates TOO MUCH!  The John Swift you are referring to is the WRONG Swift!  Also, I think you are getting all of this "Rich Mines being farther West" from Prather as well.  Prather believes the Rich Mines are near Ft. KNOX - this is LUDICROUS!  Hell, there are no huge mountains/clifts/laurel in this area of KY!  Again, all one has to do is go by both William and John Swifts' journals and they will point you in the right direction and it is definitely NOT Ft. Knox or The Grand Canyon as some have stated!

So, by your post, you are stating now that SW is ABOVE West!?!?  If not, then Swift DID work the LOWER MINES!  If so, then you need to go to a map class (as I have taken several during my years in the military and SW is always below West). 

Again, simply b/c Henson and now Prather (or the guy who claims the mines to be in The Grand Canyon) state something does NOT mean it is true.  People are getting away from what the SWIFTS stated in their journals and listening to these authors.  I never met Henson (God rest his soul).  From what I have heard, he was a great person.  However, his books/claims are full of MANY contradictions - even from the journals he has printed before his claims in his books.  Ralph and I have discussed this and Ralph has stated it seemed as if Henson wanted the mines to be in a certain area and then tried to make everything fit his area.  This is NOT how one finds a treasure/mines/or any area.  You start with the directions and go from there - you don't start with your thought on where the area is.

I apologize if this post is rather blunt.  I am simply trying to get my point across that SW is below W and Swift worked the lower mines.  It seems that this would be common knowledge as the journals and Beale have stated these facts (Swift going SW along a great ridge and the rest of the crew going West for a considerable distance).

Beale, I am glad we finally agree that Swift worked the Lower Mines!

BTW - it is not really your fault, as I have seen Henson write that Swift worked the lower mines sometimes and the upper mines at others. 

Sorry, but I am really not giving out any specifics until my book comes out.  I might post on here the tree with the large limb near the ground where Swift buried one of his caches however!  The "large limb" is SEVERAL times bigger around than the tree's trunk and is the only tree I have ever seen like this (and, again, I have hunted KY for over 30 years now - game hunting that is - not Swift hunting, as it really didn't take too many years to find Swift's mines for me).

I will tell you one thing - the lat. and long. given are VERY MISLEADING!  I will explain this in my book with my theory and Ralph's as well, as they both equal the same conclusion, but arrive at the end result in a different manner.  THIS (with the wrong lat. and long.) was done either by Swift or someone who copied the original journal (or could have even been a mistake, which is less likely of a conclusion when I explain it however).

One note about Silver and Cumberland Gap - be careful what you read/believe.   It is a known fact that the falls was "salted" to milk investors!

Albert,

Thanks for the kind words.  I really appreciate them and hope we get to meet and you come along with me on some of my unsolved quests (most of all my quest for the Great Cave).

There certainly are a lot of Silver mines from the Breaks through Cumberland Gap.  There are SEVERAL - Spanish, Indian, French, English, etc. mines in this area!  Don't feel badly, as you are not the only one who has confused some of these other mines for Swift's - Henson did it quite a bit (again, great man from what I heard - God rest his soul). 

The key to finding the NC cache will be finding Munday's house (or the general area).  Both crew members hid their caches in the "vicinity" of Munday's before the duel.  However, one survived, so I assume he recovered his cache.  However, there are still six figures of crowns there (or have been found)!  This is a great argument why the US Govt. shouldn't try to steal people's finds - it simply causes these finds to go unreported and people to look for something that isn't there (wasting time and money).  To date, all I have heard about the NC cache is that only a "few crowns" turned up in the Yadkin many years ago - there is no way now to verify this however.  Good luck on this quest, as six figures in crowns would be a great find for anyone!

I have tons of old maps.  However, none really showing the Yadkin Valley in detail.  I use to win these on eBay - dating back to the mid 1800's.  They are really great, as they show things not on newer maps - Indian Graveyards, etc.  I had to bid high to win some of my maps and was even outbid on others (more than likely by other Swift Buffs).  However, eBay is a great place to find these older maps and copies of older maps.

Keep in touch!

Scott Elkins
Swiftsearcher

just a word here folks,swift had several in ky.but that is not the treasure.it is 3 kegs buried nearby,2 gold,1,silver, with counterfeit plates.

I have been to (several times as a matter of fact, as it is near the main furnace rockhouse) the tree with a large limb near the bottom where Swift buried 4 kegs of crowns.  As with Beale, I have no idea what you are referring to, as none of the 30+ Swift Journals I have read mention anything you stated. 

The only place Gold is mentioned in any of the Swift Journals is in the "Indian Cave" or "Great Cave".  One of Henson's Jounals refers to it as "The Great Shawnee Cave", but this is the only journal that does so, and I believe was added in to make the journal more "interesting". 

As for the Moulds you are referring to (I believe you called them counterfeit plates), those are in the rich mine and yet to be excavated.

 
Location quote for Henson's published journal

 "Thence to the Great Kanawha, thence to the Guyandotte, thence to one of the Forks of Great Sandy Creek, near its headwaters.

We had two workings, the company was divided into two parties, one group went due west for a considerable distance. The other went southwest along the great ridge, each party to work the locations selected the previous year.  My party had four places where we obtained silver ore that were later connected by trials or Tomohawk paths."

If the forks are at louisa,  of course be if, then going due west for a consideration distance put you near lower devils creek and the red river gorge.  Where the SMJ rock is.  Which I have seen numerous times.
the "Upper Mines"  Then going up sandy to the great ridge pine mountain and going SW west put you near numerous places like the pigeon water cave where silver was found by B.G.  I know him and have one of the Coins.  Cavers5 knows him  also.

Comments.....

B.G. is speaking at the Big Sandy Historical Society in louisa Kentucky on November 8, 2008 at 1:00 pm St. Joesph Church along with an attorney who has been searching for a long time and is good friends with R. Volker.

Wow, I would love to go and listen to the lecture and hear BG talk about Pigeon Water Cave.  However, I am back to my "opinion" that the coins at Pigeon Water are from Sol Mullins, as I have been researching Sol and everything points to Sol producing Spanish Silver. 

Again, below is a pic of a FRENCH CROWN that was made by Swift (with the date hidden, except for the 1 and 7).  Supposedly, all of Swift's FRENCH CROWNS were dated with the same date.  Thus, I have hidden the date to compare to any other Crowns that belong to Swift.  Since most of the caches have been found, I would assume it would be hard to find many however, as those were probably melted down years ago. 

PS, last time out, I still was not able to go in the entrance I believe is to the Great Cave Swift mentioned, as there were still several black widows in and around the opening.  I did manage to go on the other side of the ridge and find THREE more openings from the backside hidden in a laurel thicket (that I believe the Shawnee used to escape their women, children and elders from the Cherokee during battles).  With the recent drop in temperature, I will probably get back out next week, after my several doctors appointments that are interupting my search!

coins water cave

SwiftHistoryman, thanks for posting the scan.  That is the first time I have seen an actual coin from that find!  What that is, is a copy of Spanish Milled Pillar Coin.  This could definitely have been a coin that Sol Mullins would have counterfeited, given his timeline below (plus, the general area of the cave would fit the general area of Sol Mullins' "operation").  Also, this type coin was still in use in Sol's time for trade in the area.

+ 38 M    iii. Solomon 'Counterfeiting Sol' Mullins was born on 23 Feb 1782 in Broad River, Burke Co, NC, died on 28 Aug 1858 in Champanville, Boone Co, VA and was buried in Trace Fork, Big Harts Creek, Boone Co, VA

Thanks again for posting the scan!  Also, as a side note, the date is not the date Swift used on his Crowns (which I explained to Ralph the reason for the date Swift used today and will detail in my book).  I am now 99.9% certain the Water Cave, as you call it, consisted of Sol Mullins' stash!

"it seemed as if Henson wanted the mines to be in a certain area and then tried to make everything fit his area"

It seems that your doing the same thing. This post has certainly been a great read, and while I am no expert on the Swift mines, your kinda' making it seem like nobody can possibly know as much about this as you. I'm sure you have definitely put in the hours (make that years) of research and fieldwork to come to the conclusions that YOU believe to be correct, but who's to really say you are? You insist that Beale is wrong about where/when Swift died - how do you know for sure? You also claim that past Swift researchers (published) are essentially wrong in their findings. Again, how do you know for certain? Stories (written and otherwise) change constantly over time. Directions get more confusing, landmarks/"signs" deteriorate and most importantly - landscape changes. Sometimes so much that places rarely resemble what they once were. By the way, who owns the land that you are searching? Have you ever brought a detector with you?

"I also have found physical evidence, including a Silversmith's "chasing hammer" "

"BTW - there has been Silver found in the area I am in as well, not simply Silver in a creek, but Silver
Crowns/bars/ore and kettles, furnaces, etc.!"

Post a few pictures of your "finds" - they won't give away the location.

I don't want you to think I'm "bashing" your post - quite the contrary, I think it's great. I'd be lying though if I said I was not a bit of a "doubting Thomas". I don't think that posting a few pics would deter the sale of your book. In fact, it would most certainly capture the interest of more folks - not just Swift fans.

Again, please don't take this as offensive. It's not meant to be that way. Definitely looking forward to updates and hopefully some photos. Good luck on your great endeavor...

DD-777.  Thanks for your posting.  I was out yesterday in the field and had another good day (they are all great out in the woods btw). 

First, I have never claimed to be an expert.  I have claimed to find three of the four PRINCIPAL SWIFT MINES (Including the Rich Mine).  Also, I have found all of the landmarks (they were located in the exact locations Swift gives them in his journals) and the TWO furnace rockhouses.  In fact, one still has the large stone with a smaller (but large) stone beneath it with molds the silver was poured in (in the shape of pigs).  BTW - I have perm. to detect in certain areas (I asked for this in the beginning and received it).  No, I don't take a detector out every time either - especially in certain areas that I don't have perm. - however, I do have perm. in the 3-mile radius of the Swift Principal Mines. 

One thing you mentioned that I DISAGREE with adamantly is that I had a perceived location in mind (as I stated Henson and others did) when I started.  Well, you are right - Henson and others wrote about Swift and gave their "conceived" locations of the mines.  This is fair game after something has been published (to be scrutinized) and should rightly be questioned (even my findings might be questioned after I publish my book - though, I doubt it, b/c I will have more than my "thoughts" - I will have evidence supporting my claims and TONS of it!).  When I started out, I went by the Swift Journals (I had two old copies I went by).  I followed the directions given in the journals, as I had no idea at the time where I thought the mines were located.  So, this part of your argument is incorrect - I NEVER had any preconceived notion as to where the mines were located.

BTW - I have heard of the stories of "found Silver" relating to Swift in the area you refer to.  I also have several of those stories in my area (again, the ONLY person on here that knows where I am hunting is Ralph Hurst, so, Beale cannot conclude that I am in any given place, as I have never told him the location).  The ONLY difference is I have physical proof.  I have not even seen a pic. of any of the Swift's Silver supposedly found any place else!  I am in the process of obtaining a Swift French Crown from a person related to a finder in my area and will show it in my book!  Also, I have names of the finders of items in my area - including the names of people who found Silver, Coins, the actual molds, etc.!  This, and I have found some items myself - some not mentioned here evidently.

Tell you what.  You mentioned me showing some landmarks.  I will!  Let me know what you want to see (only one) and I will post the pic!  The ONLY landmark rock I have not found is the teakettle rock (I know where it is.  However, it is extremely rough to get to the area - too rough to get a pic. of one landmark) and the only mine I have not found is the middle mine (haven't looked for it yet, as it is a good distance (about a mile) from one of the furnace rockhouses (and there were no caches buried here to look for).  I will get pics of it before my book is published however.  Also, the ONE landmark/mine entrance I will NOT post is the chestnut bur rock and the entrance to the rich mine (I did post the inside of this mine, or bear den however).  That will be saved for my book (in fact, I have not even shown it to Ralph yet, as I don't want to ruin his one surprise!).  Again, lmk what ONE pic you want to see and I will post it this weekend!

Also, I have spoken with several "Swift Searchers" in my day.  You are WRONG when you state posting pics will not give away the location.  Some of these searchers (especially the old-timers) have seen it all and simply passed by it or did not recognize it when it was seen.  However, you mention one rock and the general area where it is located and they can give you the exact location.  Plus, they can take one pic and tell you where you took it a lot of times.  If I was finished with my search and waiting for the book to be published, I would be more than happy to post more pics and might even give some locations as well.  However, I still have the middle mine to find/photograph and the Indian Cave to find.

BTW - I am not interested in selling books either (though, it would be nice I guess, but I would have to sell six figures simply to cover my expenses in searching).  I simply want to show everyone what they have overlooked and show where the mines are located and hope that the govt. will do something to preserve the mine sites and their history for the next generations to see.  Plus, I am tired of geologists acting like we are all idiots when we mention silver or gold mines in the Appalachians!

     Swiftsearcher - Thanks for the reply. I think you mistook me when I quoted you at the beginning of my comment - I don't think you had a preconceived notion of where you wanted it to be. I know that while searching for things, sometimes we may come up with all sorts of "proof" that what we are searching SHOULD be right there in said area. We look around (said area) and find even more - we start to believe that what we seek HAS to be in that area - often it is not.
     As far as the photos go - you taking a picture of a silversmith's hammer on the ground where you found it (not a panoramic shot - just the hammer and the ground) will not give away said location of such find. I don't care to see the pics of the "landmarks" and "signs", don't really care to see the caves either (unless of course they're filled with silver and the pic won't give away the location). Posting photos of the pieces that YOU have found is what I'd love to see. Not a French crown - I could go online and see one. Let's see the silversmith's hammer that you claimed to have found.
     Do me a favor too - when you disagree with something, make sure you have read and understand exactly what was said before you CAPITALIZE the word WRONG to me. I have conversations with children all day, I don't need to do it here.

"Post a few pictures of your "finds" - they won't give away the location." - When I typed this, I should have been a bit clearer. When I say "finds", I mean actual items, not landmarks and caves.

Something else I'd like to add...

"I simply want to show everyone what they have overlooked and show where the mines are located and hope that the govt. will do something to preserve the mine sites and their history for the next generations to see. "

Going to the government (local or otherwise) would be the last thing I'd do.

A) More tax dollars wasted on something that it shouldn't be. You know before (if it were to happen) they erect any kind of monument or "state park", They will spend God knows how long and how much $$ ruining the surrounding lands.

B) While Johnathan Swift and his mines may be of historical significance to us "treasure hunters" and the curious-minded alike, he's not exactly Daniel Boone. 

C) I don't think there would be too many residents in the area wanting the government encroaching into their space any more than what they have already.

No problem.  I have posted it before, in another thread, but here is the silversmith chasing hammer again.  It is from the mid 1700's and has a metal handle (from my research, the hammers were made with wooden handles beginning in the the 1800's).  However, since you seem to be skeptical, I have posted the pic again.

I realize what you meant now - trying to get things to "fit" while researching.  When you mentioned what I stated about other authors, I meant they had a preconceived notion and their writings seemed to make their site(s) fit.  I have to disagree with you on your opinion as well, as I only found the Rich Mine April 25, 2008.  Even though I had been in the right gap, I had been in the wrong area (if I had been going by a preconceived notion, I would still be in the wrong area!).  I simply went by Swift's directions and found the first mine (the one they mined only one year - 1760), then started following directions to the other sites.  I might have had a preconceived idea on where things were during my search.  However, it was only after I found some other sites and proof as well (then, I knew I was on the right track).  The difference between me having a "conceived notion" about the mines then was that I had proof (actual physical proof as well as the landmarks, mines, etc. being in the right locations).  Another thing I meant by other authors wanting their spots to be right is, as with Henson using pictures of arches from an area to refer to them possibly being the needle's eye rock.  The real needle's eye rock is just that - a large rock sticking up from a clift in the shape of a needle with a hole or "eye" in the middle of the top, NOT an arch.  Plus it was West of the mines, in the area Swift mentioned.  Also, other authors will state there is are landmarks here and there to prove their areas.  However, when one looks these up on a topo map, they are in the wrong locations given by Swift (instead of being West of where their rich mine is, it is North of there, etc.).  Or, as in the case of Henson, the creek he points out as being the one in the Swift map even flows in the WRONG direction.  Swift stated the creek flows NE and the one Henson claims to be a match in one of his books flows almost opposite of NE!

I do disagree with you about Swift and History.  It is very historical that Swift was in the area mining before Boone!  

Beale, again, you post as if you know where I am hunting (you stated I followed Filson's land grant instead of a journal).  I have never told anyone but Ralph Hurst.  I can say one thing - Ralph agrees with me 100% after I have shown him some of the sites and talked to him at length about my finds and we have discussed things.  The reader of my book will also know and be convinced 100%, as I will tell them as well.

About the only thing I have stated regarding location in my posts is that Henson was wrong.  Heck, Prather even states in his book that the Swift mines are at Ft. Knox and one author states that they are in The Grand Canyon - both of these are wrong as well.  Take these three locations from the US map and you have a hint of where I am - which could be almost anywhere!

Tell you what Beale.  You state you have found Swift's mines and are certain of it.  Fine.  I am certain as well.  In fact, I am so certain that Ralph, my fiance' and I are going to excavate the rich mine and obtain some ore in the next couple of months or so (depends on when Ralph can get down here to help).  In the meantime, you obtain ore from your mines.  Then, we can see who is correct.   Truth is, we may both obtain ore from our mine sites, as there are actually several old Silver Mines in KY.  The richest ore should be from Swift's rich mine however.  Also, if we both find ore and it is nearly identical in richness, to prove which mine site is Swift's all we have to do is post pics of the chestnut bur rock above the mine and the haystack rock located in the next "drain", as well as the rock that has fallen from another rock at the rich mine.  Also, the mine has to be on the second ledge, have an entrance the size of a hogshead barrel and be a bear's den (which is not as big as an actual cave).  I already have all these pics from my Rich Mine site ready to post if needed!

Swifty  - Boone wasn't a silver miner. My statement was not referring as to who was in the area first - quite frankly, the Native Americans were. Technically, it was their land. Regardless, the point I was trying to make, is that while Swift does hold some historical significance to folks like us, I don't think the government would see him the same way as compared to Boone. I live very close to Boone's Cave park - the state barely cared about that place. It went to shambles so much so, the county decided to buy it. Fortunately, it's now cared for and a ranger is now housed on the grounds.

In other words - don't be so pumped to get your name in lights. The government makes quick work out of folks like that. IF you found what you believe you have, be happy with it and write about it. I do applaud you on the effort you are putting forth.

Understand though, you will most certainly be subject to criticism. Heck, many of us here are subject to it when we make a "unbelievable" find (even if it's just a coin). Take it with a grain of salt my friend. Beale is apparently just as passionate about this subject as you are. It doesn't mean you will both see eye to eye though. Agree to disagree. Open minds will certainly find more good in life than closed ones...

DD - One town in KY thinks highly enough of Swift.  They believe the mines are located there and have a historical marker up, etc. etc.  The actual history of Swift is interesting (at least to me and a few others).  BTW - my IQ is higher than 5 - I do know the Native Americans were here before Boone and Swift.

I can handle doubters.  I will even offer to wager Beale any amount of money (up to $100k) that I am correct. 

BTW - the reason I stated Beale was incorrect about Swift's death is that he was born in 1712 (as stated in several journals).  Again, without going back and looking into the specifics of the posts, I believe Beale's date of John Swift's death would have put him well over 100 years old (if I am remembering the posts correctly without searching through them).

One last thing.  I don't want my name up in lights (If I did, I wouldn't go by Swiftsearcher, I would be using my real name).  I just want the truth to be known.  As for the sites being "protected", I would like that as well.  Though, I do realize the govt. doesn't do a good job at this to say the least.  However, if there is a treasure involved, they do everything they can to steal it and destroy the site!

I guess the main reason for me wanting the public to know the locations is that it would dispell a lot of the nontruths.  It seems every different book that is written about Swift, the author states the mines are in a different area (the same for a lot of other treasures as well).  I have a chance to prove 100% without a doubt the real sites and believe I should.  If not for simply exposing the truth, to save people time and money hunting at another author's location.

Also - Who says Boone wasn't a Silver Miner!  Evidently you haven't researched Swift and Boone that much, or your wouldn't have stated this.

Beale - I think you mention something about me not wanting to find the teakettle rock.  Also, the middle mine will be the last mine I will find.  The main reasons, the terrain is very rough and I started out looking for the furnaces and cache sites after finding the first mine.  The West Mine was very close (50 poles) from one of the furnace rockhouses, so I found it next.  Then, I had to find the Rich Mine of course.  I will find the Middle Mine before publishing my book however.  As for the teakettle rock, there is no reason to go that far out of the way to photograph one rock that has no caches buried near it.  I think my time will be better served looking for the Middle Mine and Indian Cave (which is more than enough to fill my plate!).

That hammer is interesting, I stand corrected.  For years I was told that those hammers were called " Ball Pein " hammers.  I have a sledge hammer(?) that the head weighs 25 lbs. but because when doing autobody repairs for 44 years, (I kept breaking the wooden handle) I welded a cut in half axle shaft (2 1/2 foot long) to the head, and have never broken a handle since.  the whole thing weighs 35lbs.......Not doubting anyone here, but am I wrong to call that hammer a Ball Pein?...........NGE

Did a quick Google search.  Here you guys go.  You can see that modern day silversmith chasing hammers have wooden handles and have heads similar to this one.  However, before 1800, the handles were metal (like the one I found in the pic).

These chasing hammers are similar to a "ball peen" hammer.  You cannot tell from the close up pic I took, but the head is really small.  The overall length is 12 inches exactly btw.


http://www.shopwiki.com/search/Chasing+Hammer

I hate to break it to you, but the handle is original to the hammer.  How are you arriving at the conclusion that the hammer had a wooden handle and had it replaced - especially from the photo?  I have it in my hand and have owned hammers, axes, etc. that have had handles replaced.  This hammer's handle is the original as there is no sign of it being replaced (anything holding the handle to the hammer that was placed in the head, etc.).

As for the date of the hammer, chasing hammers had metal handles before the 1800's.  Also, my great aunt has several old tools that were her grandfather's (from the mid to late 1800's) and this is definitely older than any of these (and I have compare the hammer to them side by side).

I don't see how you are arriving at your conclusion - especially based on a pic, as you would have to look at the hammer in detail to conclude it had a handle replaced.  Also, if you will look at the pics carefully of the chasing hammers in the link, they have the same type head this one does (just a little more updated).

I found the hammer on a ledge between the furnace rockhouse and the waterfall.  IF it was a ball peen hammer, why such a skinny handle?  Also, why would anyone replace a wooden handle with a metal one?  It would be harder to get a metal handle to stay attached to the hammer's head.  Also, if it was a ball peen hammer with the handle replaced, why such a skinny handle?  It would be much easier to use a ball peen hammer with a thick wooden handle IMHO.

I will admit there is not much difference in the looks between a chasing hammer and a ball peen hammer.  They probably could be used for the same purpose in Silversmithing - especially when only needing it to make crude pigs or bars.

It seems my last stament above (comparing the similarities of a ball peen hammer and chasing hammer) is true.  They are both used in working metals!

http://www.answers.com/topic/ball-peen-hammer

I also just looked at the link with the Jeweler's chasing ball pein hammer in it.  With the exception of it having a wooden handle, the heads are entirely different, especially on the end that has the "flat Face" notice that the sides leading to the flat surface are straight (same diameter ) while in your picture of the one you found the flat face is " skirted "  looks modern to me.  If the one in "your " picture is in fact an old "chasing" hammer, how many would you like to buy?  Mine are in better shape too, albeit I would have to take the cracked handles off and replace with metal rods, so they would be safer to implement............NGE

Swiftsearcher, I was wondering how deep you checked the areas (depressions)where the caches had already been recovered.

NGE, for the hundreth (and last time), if yours have wooden handles, they are definitely not as old as the hammer I found!  The metal handle is original also.  From my research, these hammers used for chasing in metal melting didn't have wooden handles until the 1800's (whether you call them a ball peen hammer or a chasing hammer).

BTW, silversmith chasing hammers came in different varieties.  Some have a flat head, some look like a ball peen hammer and here is a rather odd looking example.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Jewelers-Silver...ultDomain_0?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116


CC, I went over them with my detector (some of them more than once) and never received any hits.  My detector is suppose to find large caches up to 6 ft.  I have found pennies at around 18 inches with it and a mine respirator at around 2 1/2 ft., so it should find a large cache at 5-6 ft.  Supposedly, the caches were around 3 ft. deep.  If so, there is definitely nothing there.  Also, for a couple of the sites, I know the people's names who found them (so I know they are gone).

Here is a good article by an expert on the subject of silversmithing hammers.  BTW, here is a portion of the article below.  Notice a chasing hammer can also have a "domed head" instead of a flat head (as the one I found does).  The other end is a ball.  I guess this is where they look similar to a ball peen hammer!

The head of a chasing hammer will be either flat or domed on one side and have a ball on the other. I have one of each; flat and domed. They have taken me through just about everything I have wanted to do with sheet and wire. The ball end is great for putting a dimple pattern in sheet metal or on wire.

http://searchwarp.com/swa358067.htm

I am holding the chasing hammer I bought now.  It does have a flat face, as the ones in the link I provided.  Also the handle is definitely the original, as it has not been replaced.  I will try and get a scan up of the flat end and the part showing the handle is the original.

CC, I went over them with my detector (some of them more than once) and never received any hits.  My detector is suppose to find large caches up to 6 ft.  I have found pennies at around 18 inches with it and a mine respirator at around 2 1/2 ft., so it should find a large cache at 5-6 ft.  Supposedly, the caches were around 3 ft. deep.  If so, there is definitely nothing there.  Also, for a couple of the sites, I know the people's names who found them (so I know they are gone).

I was just wondering how far something that heavy could have sunk over such a span of time. Maybe, for the ones you don't know are gone, you should try a long probe. Just a thought.

Here is an image of the chasing hammer with the flat end showing.  Also, it is definitely the original handle.

CC - I don't have the equipment to go any deeper in my searches.  If you want to, you can e-mail me at joejackson1919@comcast.net and I can take you to a couple of the cache sites sometime.

    Swifty - you say you can "handle the doubters" but you sure are quick at discounting others ideas. Once again - read the statements before shooting back with a defensive comment. The statement regarding Boone and Swift was one comparing who would be more historically significant in the eyes of the government. It had nothing to do with who was where and when and what they did. You are just reading what you want to read and drawing your own conclusions from it (remember - open mind). I never made any remark, nor did I assume you had a low IQ.

     One thing I will say though - you are continually bashing other peoples comments and suggestions because you are apparently all-knowing when it comes to any subject pertaining to the mines and the finds made in the area. There are folks here on T'net that are just plain brilliant - more so than you and I can aspire to be. I value that more than anything when I'm posting a find or if I need help identifying something. NGE has been working with tools pretty much his whole life and that's a valued opinion he shares when he chimes in about hammers. While neither of us may be experts on the history of silversmith tools, I went through every page of your link (of tools) and have not seen one single hammer that looks similar to yours (as far as chasing hammers go). It looks like a good old ball-peen hammer. As far as the handle goes - how do you know with such certainty that you display, that the original handle is what's on it now? It's impossible to make such a statement! Who's to say that hammer wasn't used long after Swift was there (if it is a Swift mine)? How do you know someone wasn't making "shine" back there and that hammer was used in the construction of the still? Just because there may not be evidence of a still there, does not mean there wasn't. I have a friend who's grandfather had many sites here in the mountains of NC. He said they always looked for sites that were next to, or even IN caves themselves. When the revenuers caught wind of one site - they picked up and moved it all - never leaving a trace of what was there. That's the wonderfully mysterious nature about the woods...

The hammer itself does not appear to have the original handle. There seems to be too much of a gap where the handle meets the head on the lower end. How exactly is the head attached to the handle anyway?

By the way - what kind of detector are you using that your picking off pennies at 18 inches? I gotta' get me one of those... 

    There are folks here on T'net that are just plain brilliant - more so than you and I can aspire to be.

 How would you know that? Isn't that the same thing you're accusing SW S of doing - assuming to know...?

    There are folks here on T'net that are just plain brilliant - more so than you and I can aspire to be.

 How would you know that? Isn't that the same thing you're accusing SW S of doing - assuming to know...?
[/quote

Big difference in my statement CC than what SS has been doing. I'm not trying to attack him so you don't need to jump me about it.

    There are folks here on T'net that are just plain brilliant - more so than you and I can aspire to be.

 How would you know that? Isn't that the same thing you're accusing SW S of doing - assuming to know...?
[/quote

Big difference in my statement CC than what SS has been doing. I'm not trying to attack him so you don't need to jump me about it.

Okay, but you didn't answer the question. How would you know? I'm not jumping anybody, just wondering.

Beale,

It seems after believing me a while back, you are back to doubting me.  This is fine with me - just wondering why you changed your mind.  After we had a couple of PM's, you stated I was correct about Swift working the Lower Mines and wished me luck, then posted this post. 

Don't get me wrong, I don't care that you nor anyone else disagrees with me.  Afterall, the more people who disagree, the more people that will buy my book to see what an idiot I am.



Swiftsearcher,

I wish you the best in locating the Great Cavern of the Shawnee. I hope it is heaped up with gold and silver, you deserve it for the amount of work you have put into this search. I believe you have accompolished more in the finding of Swift's Silver mines than all of the other treasure hunters for the past 220 years.

Most of my disagreements with this was my finding of other silver mines in Kentucky and conflicting the two stories. A considerable distance west of the Cumberland Gap is where I believe some other silver mines are located. I don't know if they were Swift's or some of his party but there is a lot of silver out that way. I hope to find some survey maps to help locate these mines some day? Old maps are sometimes hard to go by and I can forsee difficulties but that is what we deal with when we search for lost treasures. Best to you and yours Swiftsearcher. I have the home locations of about a dozen of Swift's Party in North Carolina. I could have found more but someone stole the deed book from the court house. There is reported to be another copy in Anson County, I may go there to look at it. I hope things work out for you and if I don't ever get down your way---------you find it all, then look me up and we will go search their homesites. Flint and Fletcher had over 16 tons of silver and gold, think about all of the rest of Swift's Party. They owned according to Swift at least eight ships that I believe were pirate ships and they carried their plunder back into NC and hid it there. I believe they have buried the largest land treasure in the US in NC. I don't know how much they could have accumulated in the Great Cavern of the Shawnee but I sure believe there is litterly tons in NC. We may one day try to recover some of that. See you around. Albert

DD, your last post is simply ludicrous!  You state that NGE could tell more about the hammer and the handle being original or not from my first pic.  There is no way.  I am a baseball card expert (have been collecting T206's and Vintage Cards for 30 years).  I can tell if a card is original most of the time from a scan, but cannot tell if it has been altered (trimmed, recolored, etc.) unless I examine it in person usually.  The same could be said for telling if this hammer's handle is the original or not.  I have it in person and I can tell you I have owned enough tools and been to enough flea markets in my lifetime to state it is the original handle.  There are no shams holding the handle in place to the head (as one has to sham a new handle that is undersized as you two state this one is).  Even though the entire handle is corroded, the metal on the head actually seems to be the same metal as on the handle.  Also, there is no sign of welding either.  The handle simply fits perfectly snug to the head.  You said there is no way I can tell if the handle is original when I have the hammer in hand.  However, you state NGE can tell this from a picture.  This is simply proposterous to say the least.

Tell you what, since it worked with Beale.  When it came time to put up or shut up, be didn't put up (though, he probably won't shut up either ).  I will make you and/or NGE a wager.  Both of you seem to think you believe the handle is not the original and the hammer was made after 1900.  I will be both of you any amount of money (up to $100k again) that the handle is original to the hammer and/or the hammer is much older than 1900.  Plus the loser(s) has/have to pay the expense of having tests done by a credible University that can date the hammer and come to a conclusion on the handle.  I know from experience in different collectibles that nobody can ascertain a small detail such as you two state by looking at a scan (regarding the handle being replaced).  I also know that even non-experts can tell more than an expert about small details of an item such as this when looking at it in person.  

You say I am bashing other people.  However, I am only defending my statements against the bashing from you, Beale and NGE.  Am I not allowed to do this - especially when I have an object in hand and can tell more about it than you can from looking at a picture?

I have never claimed to be smarter than anyone on here.  All I have claimed is what I have found.  And, I have more evidence than just this hammer btw.  I would again wager that I have more evidence I have found Swift's mines than anybody else - period.  I have been contacted by many experts on Swift and spoken with them on the phone.  It is funny that all of the Swift "experts" I have spoken with believe me when I tell them about my findings, yet you and a couple of others are worried whether a hammer is a ball peen or a chasing hammer (when they are both used for practically the same purpose in metal working).  I believe why NGE has made the outrageous comment that the handle is not original is that it would prove the hammer's age, since these hammers had metal handles before the 1800's.  This comment is simply outrageous.  Not only are there no shaming nor damage to the head (that would have resulted if the handle was beaten in tightly), the handle is solidly attached and does not even wiggle (it is hard to find new hammers that are not made from one piece of metal that don't wiggle when pulled on).  Also, use a little common sense on this one - IF the hammer had an original wooden handle as NGE has suggested, why would anyone replace it with a skinny metal handle, as it would be much easier to replace a wooden handle with a wooden handle (plus, easier to hold in your hand, as this skinny metal handle is really awkward to grip) I will probably have the hammer dated by a respected University or Society before publishing my book - unless you and/or NGE would like to take me up on my wager now??

Beale - BTW, the wager doesn't have to be for $100k - that is simply the most I could wager.  Heck, I will bet you as low as $1000 if you want - PLMK (anything lower wouldn't be worth it - especially since I am saving the good evidence and pics for my book and don't want to ruin the surprise).  BTW - you mention showing proof of treasure - I wasn't born yesterday.  

DD - One last thing, as I just noticed your last post while I was typing.  You state I am attacking, yet you aren't - I just don't get that one.  TBH, we are both trying to prove our points I thought.  However, if I am attacking, you must be as well.

    There are folks here on T'net that are just plain brilliant - more so than you and I can aspire to be.

 How would you know that? Isn't that the same thing you're accusing SW S of doing - assuming to know...?
[/quote

Big difference in my statement CC than what SS has been doing. I'm not trying to attack him so you don't need to jump me about it.

Okay, but you didn't answer the question. How would you know? I'm not jumping anybody, just wondering.

I can make my statement almost just based on the help that most of us receive in the "what is it?" forum alone. There are folks here from all walks of life and from all different professions, each with their own little area of expertise. Maybe I'm wrong? Maybe there's just a few folks that are really great at using google. My point is this, constantly shooting down other people's ideas and suggestions is no way to learn anything. Insisting that you are right no matter what (with inconclusive proof) is not the greatest way to make a point and/or be taken seriously. As I have stated earlier, I applaud Swifty for his determination and the effort he has put forth thus far. It's great to see someone really attack their "quest"/goal in such a way - BUT - you at least have to be open (when on a public forum such as T'net) to what your fellow members want to share as well. You don't have to agree with it - but you don't have to openly shoot someone down either. I don't see it happening, but it would be great to see SS and Beale combine their extensive knowledge of the Swift mines and work together to find it all...  

Concerning the hammer, I would agree it`s a modern ball-peen that had the original handle replaced, the close up scan actually shows the original bore for the wood handle.

Been swinging those hammers off and on for 20+ years and consider myself  an expert, seen the handles break and in a pinch, metal bars get hammered into place.

Not trying to rile you in any way,shape or form but your hammer is modern.

Hey Swifty - Just to clear the air - I nor NGE stated that we can tell for sure that that is not the original handle. It just doesn't work. Why would anyone intentionally make a hammer with such a slender handle to begin with? As you stated, it is somewhat difficult to hold. As far as your wager goes, that's just childish, plain and simple. I apologize if it seems like I have been "counter-attacking". Just stating my feelings as you are yours. I do wish you the best of luck in the completion of your quest and I look forward to your book. Try not to lose any bets between now and then though...

OK, I will have the hammer inspected by an expert of the colonial period at Colonial Williamsburg (that means I would get to meet Ralph in his neck of the woods anyway).  It will be good to have an expert opinion anyway - good or bad.  That way, I can include proof beyond a doubt in my book or simply omit it.  I certainly disagree with people who state it is modern, as it still has as much rust on it as some of the Atocha obects when they were brought up (and I have performed a few hours of electolysis on it already as well).

DD - you have called me childish now in at least two posts.  Yet, you refer to me as "Swifty".  The name calling is actually childish one would think.

You do mention the slender handle.  This is one reason I believe it to be a hammer than was used by Silversmiths.  It is simply not "right" for heavy work, such as beating a still or driving nails - it is too thin (again, something like a Silversmith would use, while working with small amounts of silver - ie: pigs, coins).

Beale - I only brought you up b/c you came back into this discussion.  If you didn't want your name brought up, I have no idea why you posted again?   Also, one could prove beyond a doubt they found the rich mines as well.  Again, it would take showing the landmarks Swift mentions at the rich mine in the locations he mentions them (which I can do) and showing some really high grade silver ore that came from the mine (which I plan on doing).

Here`s a pic of a few that I have, the small one (with broken handle) is 12 years old, rusted simply from laying on a shelf unused, note that whats left of the handle is still "tight" in its bore, as it should be, no gaps as shown in your close-up pic.

I trust your expert will agree it is not what you believe. 

BS - Thanks for posting the scans.  Mine was found under a covered ledge between the waterfall and furnace rockhouse, so it was out of the elements as well.  Looking at your pics, none of the heads of the hammers are as small as the one I found and definitely none look as old (of course you stated yours have been on a shelf in a building I assume).  Again, since there is some question, I will have the hammer dated by a respectible orgnanization - no problem as it will be sometime before my book is at the publishers (afterall I still am searching for the great cave and middle mine, as well as planning on excavating the rich mine until we reach the ore).

I almost forgot.  Someone asked what detector I am using.  I am using an MP3 PRO Digital from Kellyco in FL.  I LOVE it!  The only time I ever received a false signal was recently at a KGC site.  A couple of KGC experts told me the same thing has happened to them numerous times, so I don't feel bad with only one false signal in an area with dozens of KGC carvings and markers.  The other bad feature is that it distincts metals and shows aluminum cans as silver hits.  I almost had a heart attack at a Swift cache site when my detector went crazy showing silver!  Turns out, it was two old beer cans from a former good friend of mine (who found a few Swift caches).  He must have taken the crowns out and thrown his celebratory beer cans back in the spot!?

BTW - on another topic.  I have found several great KGC markings, carvings and sites in my adventures - some real close to Swift's Principal Mines!  Talking this over with a KGC expert and a person who has Swift hunted for dozens of years, he stated that the KGC not only buried treasure, but were in the treasure hunting business as well and more than likely hunted Swift's mines and caches and this is the reason I have found so many KGC signs as well. 

Also, for those KGC buffs, I found a rock a little bigger than both my hands.  The rock is in the shape of a perfect heart and is grey on the bottom and red on the top (all natural rock it appears).  I had read Brewer's book and decided to keep the rock (the rock was found when I took my daughter and fiance' to a creek so they could find some rocks - they love picking out "pretty" rocks from creek beds).  Anyway, I went under the large waterfall in this area and it had a rockhouse in behind it.  The heart rock was there.  I never looked at it and/or noticed anything.  Last week, I had a meeting with two Swift/KGC buffs/experts.  I mentioned finding the rock on the phone to one of them when they started talking about the KGC.  Turns out, I have an important KGC heart marker!  There were worn signs carved on the rock I had never noticed and they did, inlcuding a seven, heart, star, etc.!

Will you be posting a photograph of this "perfect, heart shaped rock"? That would be fantastic!

I might on the KGC side.  I already posted a pic of what I believe to be a KGC "vault" there.  As of now, I will be posting pics of trees, markers, etc. near this "vault" however.  Again, in the KGC section, as it doesn't fit this category.

    It's ALL "connected"; http://www.knightsofthegoldencircle-kgc.com/signs.htm   

Rebel - that's what I have been told by some reliable sources!

swiftsearcher: im just curios what is this cave and its backround ive never heard of it but if your writing a book on it  :icon_study:i guess you would know alot about it.
-bob

Hi Bob,

Just now seeing your question - sorry.

I assume you are talking about the "Great Cave" or "Indian Cave" related to Swift.  This was the cave that Swift and Co. used as a storehouse for their surplus silver and gold (bars, pigs, crowns).  It is also the cave that Swift supposedly killed his crew and two elderly Shawnee before going blind.  There has been a "bar" taken from this cave and proved to be Silver!

Getting back to the hammer.  The "experts" state that this is more than likely an early ball pein hammer (DEFINITELY Pre-Civil War) and, due to the extensive use on the head, was more than likely used to beat the Silver (or other metal) out of the moulds.  Also, these type hammers ARE basically interchangeable with a "chasing hammer" in metal working and a chasing hammer is simply a "type" of ball peen hammer anyway.  So, while I might have been "technically" wrong to refer to it as a "chasing hammer" it is a ball peen hammer and is/was used for basically the same metal work as a chasing hammer is used for.

I believe this hammer might have been used at the main furnace rockhouse by Montgomery in his metal working.  The reason I say this is that under the rust, there appear to be a large "M" and maybe some more writing/etching as well.  I have tried electrolysis on this hammer to remove the rust, but this is a SLOW process and the electorlysis machine I bought only works for around 60 seconds each time (then you have to keep turning it back on after the sixty seconds are up).  What other forms of electorlysis are easier?  Anyone know?  Is there a way I can put the hammer in something and use wires and a battery or outlet safely?  I look forward to any answers - especially if you have tried this before and used a form of electrolysis successfully.

BTW - I am going to post a pic of one of the KGC heart rocks here (and in the KGC section as well).  They are really neat, as one side is reddish and one side is grayish/black.  I cannot wait to get some responses on the pic I post of the "Heart Rock"!

Pic of Heart Rock I found a few years ago.

Alot been going on in here since I last visited....where the gold or silver everyones talking about???

GREAT NEWS!  A member of this site (Seth Robbins) is going to help me excavate the Rich Mine on Monday/Tuesday!  This will be very interesting and answer a lot of questions to say the least.  Was Swift a Pirate?  Was the Rich Mine a Silver Mine OR a GOLD Mine?  etc. etc.

Anyone care to make predictions?

My prediction is that it will be exactly as Swift stated - a mine.  However, we know that Swift made Gold and Silver Crowns and mentioned heaped up GOLD located with the Silver in the Great Cave (or Indian Cave).  Gold is sometimes found with Silver in deposits.  However, during my research, I have quite a bit of info. that points to the Rich Mine containing GOLD and not Silver.  With Gold hovering around a grand an ounce, I know what I want the "pocket" or "seam" in the mine to be.  However, I am leaning 70% Silver and 30% Gold. 

It will also be great to see the actual "pocket" or "seam" that the crew mined (be it Silver or GOLD) and to see how pure it really is.  I am sure many have heard the tales that the Rich Mine is so pure that one can mine the ore with a pocket knife.

Also, not far from the Rich Mine (in fact, on the highest point in the area), is where I found an old dead tree that had GIST carved in it.  We know from Gist's journal that he might have found a Gold Mine and I know from my research that Gist had a definite link to Swift (which I will devote an entire chapter to in my book).  Could the Rich Mine and Gist's "find" be one in the same and be a Gold Mine?

The closer we get to Monday and Tuesday, the more excited I become on finally being able to answer these questions.  Don't worry, I will let everyone know what the mine contains and will even show a pic of the ore (or other find(s)).  This I won't make everyone wait on until my book comes out next year! 

In the meantime (between now and when we remove the 10 ft. of dirt Swift and Co. filled the Rich Mine in with either Monday or Tuesday), I would love to hear everyone's opinions!  What do you guys/gals think we will find?  Will it be a Gold Mine, Silver Mine, Pirate loot they brought in to be melted down, NOTHING, etc.?

BTW - If it turns out to be ORE of some kind (like I believe), we will be having it assayed and I will let everyone here know the content!

If you are in one of Swift's mines, then I would have to go with silver (coins, ore, or bars), since that is what he mined (not a prediction, just a guess). I hope you guys do well and I'm looking forward to seeing whatever you drag out of there.

Sounds great! best of luck, wish I could be there!
-Swiftfan-

 Hoping for the best . Next week is going to be very rewarding or devastating for all of us that have been following/supporting you .

Thanks for the kind words (both on here and sent privately).  Personally, I am more excited than a kid waiting to open Christmas presents.  I want to publicly thank Seth Robbins for volunteering to help me (of course, should we find something, he will be cut in % wise along with my other partners).  The great thing about this excavation also is that it is perfectly legal on National Forest to mine ore thanks to the Prospecting Law of 1872 (I believe that is the right date without checking)!  It was actually very hard finding someone to help, even though I had done all the work and found the mine and have always offered to let anyone helping share in any "find" where they help.

I will take my digital camera and document things for everyone.

Out of the three Swift Principal Mines I have found so far, the Rich Mine is going to be the easiest to excavate, as there should only be around 10 ft. of dirt to get out of the way and reach the mine entrance/seam (just as Swift mentioned in his journals).  Also, it should be the most rewarding ore wise.

I will more than likely post pics and news of the events from excavations on Monday and Tuesday on here Wed. evening/night (as I have a doctor's appt. Wed. day).  Of course, if we find something real exciting, I might post news that evening/night (if I am not too tired from the excavating) with pics to follow around Wed.

Aside from the rich ore (and maybe any crowns that were sealed up), it would be super to find mining equipment inside the mine IMHO.  I know the moulds and other tools Swift and Co. sealed up are now gone (and know the persons who found them).  However, there might be other mining equipment inside the actual mine itself.  To a Swift researcher, like myself, finding an old mining pick or other tool with one of the crew's name engraved on it would actually be better than finding a bag of Crowns or Pigs! 

Seth and I worked hard for two days trying to gain entrance.  However, the tunnel needs to be widened some more.  Evidently, men weren't as big in Swift's time as they are today, or, maybe the stories of the "little people" mining for Swift were true.  Anyway, we are going to try again Sunday.  I went out and bought a drill, circular saw, masonry blades and drill bits and two 18v batteries today. 

The tunnel goes back for ten ft. and then opens into a large room.  Seth put his digital camera on the end of his metal detector and we could see the large room and some items covered in dirt, but could not make out too many details however.  Hopefully, Sunday will be the day we reach the ore (fingers crossed)!

swiftseacher,
                 Goodluck to you guys, and be careful. Hope you find the mother load, let us know what you find!        -Ki-

Ki, thanks for the kind words. 

I will definitely keep everyone posted about any finds good or bad.  I should have the tools now to widen out the mine entrance inside the bear den.  With a "big man" being around 140-50 lbs. in Swift's time, they didn't need the entrance size one would need now.

Be sure to keep us posted about your site as well.  There has to be something there (or that was there), as Indians have visited the region looking for a "princess skull" in relation to the 101 carving.  This is what they told people.  However, it is more than likely something much bigger!

Seth and I were rained out Sunday.  I went yesterday with my daughter.  We only got to work about 20 minutes until a HUGE downpour came and we had to leave before the road became flooded.  As soon as the weather breaks for a few days, I will try in again and keep you guys/gals informed.

My daughter, better half and I spent several hours inside the mine excavating yesterday.  I am still unable to get through the opening pictured above.  This opening goes back around ten ft. into another bear den type chamber.  It appears that this back chamber is where Swift mentions filling in 10 feet of dirt and locust poles covering the mine entrance.  My daugther and better half got through the opening into the back chamber yesterday and dug a couple ft. of dirt out.  My daughter also found about a six inch long piece of VERY OLD Locust in the dirt (probably from one of the rotted posts Swift and Co. placed in there).  I brought this out, but, unfortunately, on the way out it broke and I only have a four inch piece now. 

One who is familiar with the journals and descriptions of the Rich Mine knows that Swift stated one goes down 10 feet and the mine makes off level in a NE/SW direction and there are two seams of Silver - one thick and one thin.  We will be a few more days reaching this due to the excavation of 10 ft. of dirt and rotted locust poles, plus I want to open up the rock tunnel entrance (pictured above) enough for me to get inside as well (and this red sandstone is some stubborn rock to drill/saw/chisel in this small opening!). 

I will post again when we make it inside the actual mine entrance and take some pics of things at that time for you as well.  It may be a few weeks, as I have several doctors appts. coming up, as well as my daugther and father, so I won't get but a day or two each week to work (and if my daughter/better half can't go with me, I will simply be widening the tunnel and not digging any of the 10 ft. of dirt out of the mine entrance until the tunnel is a little wider). 

Come on...you mean to tell me that swiftsearcher is so sure he is within feet of all these riches and he can only get his better half and daughter to help him dig?
Well, when my book comes out with proof that swiftsearcher never found anything that is all the proof you will need. I'll even have pictures of the finds he didn't make and maps with lat. and lon. of the caves that never held a treasure. I might even have a traveling musuem with a circa 1900 hammer for you to feel and touch. 

This has been a very funny post to read. Thank you and I look forward to the next chapter in this book.

Come on...you mean to tell me that swiftsearcher is so sure he is within feet of all these riches and he can only get his better half and daughter to help him dig?
Well, when my book comes out with proof that swiftsearcher never found anything that is all the proof you will need. I'll even have pictures of the finds he didn't make and maps with lat. and lon. of the caves that never held a treasure. I might even have a traveling musuem with a circa 1900 hammer for you to feel and touch. 

This has been a very funny post to read. Thank you and I look forward to the next chapter in this book.

We have a very graphic local statement where I live : "You got to bring a$$ to get a$$" ....
 That has had distarous results for some when confronted .
 Gonna be interesting to see how this plays out . 

Truckinbutch - great speaking with you earlier and I look forward to working with you soon at the vault!  You and T-Wolf are a couple of great guys (just like everyone on here I have spoken with on the phone and met so far!).  

Makton - your post really shows your ignorance about the Swift mines/journals.  The only real thing of value hidden in the Rich Mine is a bag of minted Silver Crowns and a couple of Silver seams.  I am really no miner, but Ralph and I might stake a mining claim to obtain the rights after we get a few samples from the two veins of the mine.  I seriously doubt that either Ralph or I will ever mine any Silver at the Rich Mine amount to anything (other than getting some samples out for assay and to keep), but it will be nice to have the mining rights anyway!

Swiftsearcher, I am sure you will want to bet me something but my guess is in 30 days from now you will still have not found anything. I know, I know, I'll have to buy your book for the proof or you'll have some pics of Bear poopies proving that this Swifts mine.
I think you mentioned that in this mine is the purest silver ore in the region so my guess is either you will have another lame excuse why there was nothing behind 10ft of dirt or we will have to read your book for the only proof that you have ever had.

Don't get me wrong, I believe that in your mind you have found it and I hope that you do actually find some proof but I guess just reading all these threads and the way you talk to people bugs me as it has with many others I am sure. I know nothing of Swift and his mines but just like to read the adventures of others but your arrogance, all knowing and I am right and you are wrong persona makes me want you to fail.

Best of luck to you in your quest

Makton, this is one of the most CHILDISH posts I have read on here!

I have been nice enough to provide some pics here and on the KGC side.  IF you want to attack someone ARROGANT, who has not posted a pic one and can't even get the facts about the Swift Journals correct, I suggest you attack the poster below (unless you are one of his "buddies" who keep attacking me for proving him wrong SEVERAL times, which has led to him deleting several of his posts where he was out in LEFT FIELD on facts regarding Swift!).

Swift Upper Mines Found
Posted Jun 10, 2009, 02:09:17 PM   
Hey Ki, and All
    Swift's "upper mines" found using the carving/survey or compass rock on LDC and a few other carvings.  I found the spot that many of the carvings pertain to.  GCS nearby the mines, other carvings in the area pertain to it as well.  If and when anybody does find it, you better keep it a secret or the landowners or law enforcement/feds will get it all.  The secret is safe with me, "like it has been for close to 240yrs." The thrill of the hunt.  When I have some solid evidence, I will show it to ya'll.

Sincerely,
L37something -aka- Swifty...

Swiftsearcher/KGC Vault man,
Don't know the other poster other than his and your posts I've looked at. All I know is what I read and that is about a guy that has hiked those woods for 30 years yet doesn't have any friends he can trust to help him dig 10 feet. I also read you are not in this for the money but you just want to prove the history and let other people enjoy it with maps, pics, etc but after all this research and field work you come this close and cannot dig another 10 feet. Come on let's keep it real. There are people out there that want to believe you. They want you to succeed but are getting tired of the BS.

The BOOK, The BOOK - that's all I hear about but you got 120 inches standing in your way of The BOOK and I think you realize that everything you have put into this and imagined is not what it seems and there never will be a book. Even if there was, it is about the money and not just letting others know that you were the one, the only one that could find it after all these years....am I right?

Makton

To avoid confusion, switch threads.

Or buy the books

I think while searching for Swift, he came upon this site. And not fitting with the Swift stories, he started putting two and two together. I wish I could find two sites! Heck, the one I'm working now, looks like someone beat me to it years ago...
/swiftfan\

I hope one of his two sites payoff for him and I wish him success but I think he could be more open to others and their searches. I am normally a quiet, don't get involved type of person but after reading these threads, Swiftfan really got under my skin.
He was debating with others on the hammer when they suggested it looked modern and "how could they tell from a picture but in another thread he got a positive id on colonial mortar from a picture he sent to an expert.

He also talks about how he is not in this for the money and just wants recognition for finding everything and documenting it in his book for others to come and enjoy but in his KGB thread he talks about bullet proof vests, guns and bloodshed with the government if they try to take his "vault" of KGB stash.

In another thread he talks about finding the hammer and because it was on govt land he re-buried it but then has a picture of it and supposedly has sent it to an expert for verification.

I love reading others treasure tales and wish everyone success and with most, it's the journey not the destination. With Swiftfan, it seems as if he is trying to ruin everyone elses journey.

Enough said,

Makton

Makton, I am NOT trying to ruin anyone else's journey.  In fact, there are people on here who have went with me on some of my adventures.  The ONLY thing I did regarding L37 was point out SEVERAL posts he made where he had information from the Swift journals COMPLETELY WRONG.  Evidently he realized this, as he QUICKLY deleted his posts with these errrors.  I DID THIS FOR THE SAME REASON I WANTED TO WRITE A BOOK ABOUT THE LOCATIONS OF THE MINES - TO GET THE TRUTH OUT.

Swiftfan is correct (and has helped me out at the Rich Mine a few days and is welcome to go back with my anytime) - there are two different locations.  One I stumbled across while doing my Swift searching (the KGC vault).  The other, in this thread, is the Rich Mine.

I do have an update on the Rich Mine excavation.  Ralph is in and he and I went there to do some work yesterday.  As Swiftfan can attest, the tunnel in the bear's den leading back to the actual seams of ore is rather small (neither of us could get through b/c our shoulders are too broad).  Ralph and I worked several hours yesterday - going through four 18volt batteries.  This is some hard rock (which one wouldn't think sandstone would be this bad, but it IS).  Ralph and I figure, in order to get the tunnel widened and get the ten feet of dirt out of the mine entrance, it will take about 10 more days of work.  For those of you who are ARMCHAIR treasure hunters setting on the couch, this could be several weeks.  If I am lucky, I get to go out two days a week.  If it rains, I usually have to wait several days to go back out and I have tons of other daily things to do in the meantime.  THERE IS MUCH MORE TO THIS EXCAVATION THAN SIMPLY GETTING A SHOVEL AND DIGGING TEN FT. OF DIRT OUT OF A CAVE!  Again, anyone who has actually been in the field would realize this!

 When I was traveling with my grandpa on a horsedrawn wagon he advised me to pay no mind to the various dogs that came to the road .
 "Them dogs bark for a while . This wagon keeps on going."
 He also had a way of putting them back in their place with his whip .

Just a quick note to let everyone know that excavations were completed yesterday!  Only one additional trip is planned to go back for now to get pics of the inside and check to make sure nothing is left inside.  Thanks to all of those who have supported and believed in me.

I hope everything is as we hoped!!! Sorry I wasn't there... Let me know what you find.. call me...

swiftsearcher,  
                 hope all is well with your site and you find something. My site has been filled in as well and its gonna take some diggin to get back into the mine. So trust me i for one know the trouble you have went through at your site...   UpDate on my site, i found something that has me really excited.....their is a hollow sound in the floor of my mine. Ive crawled over it a few times in trying to get back further in the mine, one day i hit it with my knee and noticed the hollow sound. I went back beat the spot with my fist, and sure enough its hollow. This has me really wondering I have a dig planed soon, the weather has cooled down a bit, i'll start making my long hikes again very soon... 3mile hike with about 40-50 pd. of equipment on your back is tuffer than some think.. I always go to my site prepared for anything that could happen, good or bad... Always think safety.
I have all faith in swiftsearcher and belives hes found something great and "historic".
                                                                                                                          -KI-

Seth, I will be in touch - wish you could have been there.

Ki - thanks for the kind words and good luck at your site.  You are certainly right - I had some wonder why I didn't go ahead and simply dig the mine out.  Until you have been in the field and experienced these situations, you have no idea what you are in store for.  There is much more to things than simply "digging it out or up"!  Be certain to keep us updated on your findings!

One very interesting thing was a huge "G" carved into the wall, next to the entrance.  I am assuming this is/was a Masonic "G", since Swift was more than likely a Mason.  Also, there might be more to it!

I thought this was the richest silver vein in KY Since you dug it out according to your KGC posts,
I am sure you already have a piece of ore to show us or do we have to buy the book to see a pic?

Friends have and can see some things.  However, smartas@es, like yourself, will have to buy the book!

 Dat answer your question makton ?

GREAT NEWS!  A member of this site (Seth Robbins) is going to help me excavate the Rich Mine on Monday/Tuesday!  This will be very interesting and answer a lot of questions to say the least.  Was Swift a Pirate?  Was the Rich Mine a Silver Mine OR a GOLD Mine?  etc. etc.

Anyone care to make predictions?

My prediction is that it will be exactly as Swift stated - a mine.  However, we know that Swift made Gold and Silver Crowns and mentioned heaped up GOLD located with the Silver in the Great Cave (or Indian Cave).  Gold is sometimes found with Silver in deposits.  However, during my research, I have quite a bit of info. that points to the Rich Mine containing GOLD and not Silver.  With Gold hovering around a grand an ounce, I know what I want the "pocket" or "seam" in the mine to be.  However, I am leaning 70% Silver and 30% Gold.  

It will also be great to see the actual "pocket" or "seam" that the crew mined (be it Silver or GOLD) and to see how pure it really is.  I am sure many have heard the tales that the Rich Mine is so pure that one can mine the ore with a pocket knife.

Also, not far from the Rich Mine (in fact, on the highest point in the area), is where I found an old dead tree that had GIST carved in it.  We know from Gist's journal that he might have found a Gold Mine and I know from my research that Gist had a definite link to Swift (which I will devote an entire chapter to in my book).  Could the Rich Mine and Gist's "find" be one in the same and be a Gold Mine?

The closer we get to Monday and Tuesday, the more excited I become on finally being able to answer these questions.  Don't worry, I will let everyone know what the mine contains and will even show a pic of the ore (or other find(s)).  This I won't make everyone wait on until my book comes out next year!  

In the meantime (between now and when we remove the 10 ft. of dirt Swift and Co. filled the Rich Mine in with either Monday or Tuesday), I would love to hear everyone's opinions!  What do you guys/gals think we will find?  Will it be a Gold Mine, Silver Mine, Pirate loot they brought in to be melted down, NOTHING, etc.?

BTW - If it turns out to be ORE of some kind (like I believe), we will be having it assayed and I will let everyone here know the content!

Swiftsearcher,
                     You mention Gist in the above post, Gist was a big part of the swift lore. He made his first trip in to Ky in 1751 and wrote his finds in a journal. I think every swift hunter has heard Gist's finds on his first trip in one form or another,  He found stones that shined like high brass. Although i dont think it was silver or gold, it was a good find. He even took a sample back to the ohio company to show them. Now Gist was friends with the same indians as swift, and swift and gist probaly knew each other very well, swift found his knowledge of the Ky wilderness usefull, and id say swift followed Gist's trail's he'd blased some 10 years earlier into Ky.  In the below post is a part of Gist journal that tells of his find....    -Ki-

here is a part of Gist journal.......  -Ki-

From where hes talking about is around the northern part of Estill Co area of Ky. There was iron pyrite found in abundance around this area, they even built huge iron furnaces for the smelting of this iron ore. There was a huge deposit of iron ore found on the red river (the curent location of Clay City) There the first iron furnace was built in 1784, it was called collin's forge, it continued until the estill furnace was built in the 1830's and then later cottage furnace both still standing today. That why im curious with swift claims around my area, cause all the iron ore mines and caves, and also saltpeter mines. The furnace in Clay City is long gone, but you can still tell where it was. You can still find the slag that was dumped.

The cuttaway river today called The Kentucky.........

Friends have and can see some things.  However, smartas@es, like yourself, will have to buy the book!

So your post about posting pics once you got into the mine, what happened with that or will you delete that post as well. Maybe you don't want anyone to recongnize the inside or.....maybe you don't have any pics worth showing.

Makton, don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining!

Why would you ask for pics anyway, when you, SWR and a couple others believe there is nothing here nor at the vault?  I deleted all the pics at the KGC "vault" thread b/c many said I had already posted too much info.  If I posted a pic of a Swift Crown, some of you would want the entire video of excavation.  I was not born yesterday and will NOT post a pic again here of even a laurel leaf!

The way I see it, a handful has ruined it for the rest on here, other than the ones whom I have asked to help and trust.  From here on out, the people I can trust, whom I have selected from this forum to help, will be the only ones to know of any further progress at all.  The good news for these honest people will be that they won't have to worry about seeing any pics - they will see everything in person for themselves!

As I have stated before - L37 posted he found Swift's Mines on a topo map of all things.  It seems the ones praising him simply went to tormenting me and I had actually provided pics to L37's NOTHING!  Oh well, you guys can simply go on a wild goose chase with L37.  Oh, wait!  You are probably all armchair treasure hunters, just as L37 and will simply be looking at topos, knowing in your minds you have found everything ON A MAP!

Friends have and can see some things.  However, smartas@es, like yourself, will have to buy the book!

So your post about posting pics once you got into the mine, what happened with that or will you delete that post as well. Maybe you don't want anyone to recongnize the inside or.....maybe you don't have any pics worth showing.

Or maybe he doesn't have to show you JACK . Don't that tick you off when you lose control and there isn't doodlysquat you can do about it . (icon : thumbing ears while sticking out tongue > un
available )