Any Ideas what this Brass item is??

Hello All,

I found two of these items--flat brass items with two holes for rivets/nails in them.  They looked at the time like they would have some sort of stamping on them, but both are plain...  The older one has some design and it is cast.  It also has a part of an old nail still in one hole of it...








I found this one online that was stamped "CS" from a CW camp--the finder at the site says that it's a "watch fob" but it obviously isn't...and it's the same dimensions as the plain oval one I found (pictured above).  I'm not suggesting that these are war related, but I'm just wondering what the heck they are...



http://www.midtenrelics.com/buttons.htm  (See #2, second photo...)


Regards,


Buckleboy

I wonder if that could that be some type of decoration/accent piece for tack-related items. . . 

It's neat though!
watercolor

I found two of these also.  Mine were found in an old farm field where many military relics were discovered dating from the Revolutionary War through the Civil War.   I thought they might be some decorative piece off an old rifle or pistol.  Mine are more like your oblong one and were hand etched.

I found two of these also.  Mine were found in an old farm field where many military relics were discovered dating from the Revolutionary War through the Civil War.   I thought they might be some decorative piece off an old rifle or pistol.  Mine are more like your oblong one and were hand etched.

Wow!  I'd love to see a photo of yours if you get a chance--could you post them on this thread?  I was wondering if they were weapon-related.  I wonder if others have found these too... 

If I find one whatzit I can't ID--that's one thing...but when I've found several, and others have found them too, I start to wonder what they were.

Could be some sort of rifle decoration or tack-related item.  I think my oblong one is either hand-etched or cast...

 

Mine is in my attic right now in a box of other items.  I will try to pull them out next time I am up there.  Almost identical to your oblong one that I can remember.  Each was different in its own way though.  I believe that one side of the screw holes were beveled so that the screw head would be flush with the surface.

I've found a couple aswell.Allways thought they might be tack related but dont know for sure.Mine were found at a colonial site were the most modern items were coins from the very early 1800's with most being in the 1700's.  

Da Chief gets my vote on that one. Good eye.

I've found a couple aswell.Allways thought they might be tack related but dont know for sure.Mine were found at a colonial site were the most modern items were coins from the very early 1800's with most being in the 1700's.  

I also got coins from the earlier 1800s where I found mine--two 1820s LC's.  I don't think there was much occupation there after the CW.  If you have yours accessible, I'd love to see them on this thread as well.  Perhaps we can figure this out.  I'm going to start by looking through photos of rifles, pistols, and saddles to see if I can find anything.


Regards,


Buckleboy   

I'll see if i can find em BB,that will be a treasure hunt in it's self !  I just took a quick look and found a button that has some kinda desighn on it now were the heak is my magnifyin glass's ! 

These are kinda fancy, but check out the Southpaw Rifle 109 at the bottom of the page, on the cheekpiece.http://www.scarletscarab.com/allansandy.htm

Hi BB. The larger one with the CS could be an old luggage tag. I have seen some similar on the leather handles of old trunks. (just a suggestion)

Les

Maybe its a personal identification tag for a soldiers Bible or diary ...sometimes kept in small wooden box

  Damn, I have found them too and even think I knew the ID at one point but can't remember! 

Maybe its a personal identification tag for a soldiers Bible or diary ...sometimes kept in small wooden box

I think this is a more general item than one specifically related to a soldier...I've found several of these at old house site--and evidently people have found them in military sites as well--so I think tack-related or weapon-related are good starting points (due to the common themes between civilians and soldiers). 

Evidently these things are more common than I thought...  I'd love to see more photos to compare if folks can dig them out of their collections. 


What types of sites did you all find these things at?

  Just random older house sites, don't believe they are anythinhg special.. although anything marked CS from a CW camp would get some interest.

 

  Just random older house sites, don't believe they are anythinhg special.. although anything marked CS from a CW camp would get some interest.

 

I guess what I'm getting at is this:

When I find one isolated Whatzit at a housesite, and I can't ID it--I don't worry.  It goes in the brass keeper bin with a little note attached.  When I find several items at several different sites I start to really wonder what they are--and I also start thinking that if they had more widespread use, then someone somewhere will likely know what they are or what purpose they had.

So long story short, the more of them I find, the more a lack of an ID bothers me.


-Buckles

OK, now you've piqued my interest. I too have found several of those, they are oval looking, two  holes, some are plain, some have a decorated edge, none have ever said anything, or had a picture on them. They always come from my early dated sights (1700's- early 1800's) I was thinking maybe the end piece on a flintlock pistol. HH M

I'd have to guess something with rivets rather than nails due to the countersinking on the back.  Anything nailed down would stand a good chance of the nailhead punching through.  I thought I had a couple too, but mine had a more mundane use and were easily identified, lol!

OK, now you've piqued my interest. I too have found several of those, they are oval looking, two  holes, some are plain, some have a decorated edge, none have ever said anything, or had a picture on them. They always come from my early dated sights (1700's- early 1800's) I was thinking maybe the end piece on a flintlock pistol. HH M

Thanks for your reply.     Evidently these items were widespread in use.  It gives me hope for figuring out what they are.  I've spent several hours looking for them, but the CS one was the only one I could come up with--and as I mentioned above, it was mis-identified as a watch fob. 

I'd love to see a photo of some of yours, Michellets, if you get a chance.

Do you mean that you think it might be a piece off the bottom end of the grip of a pistol?


Regards,


Buckles

Didnt most flintlock pistols have rounded endcaps?

Didnt most flintlock pistols have rounded endcaps?

Yeah--good point.  I've been looking at them, and it seems that most all of them did...  So this idea might be a dead end.   

Didnt most flintlock pistols have rounded endcaps?

Yeah--good point.  I've been looking at them, and it seems that most all of them did...  So this idea might be a dead end.   

  I'll pretty much guarantee it's a dead end.

I'd beg to differ, if that was an end-cap, it wouldn't be flat. Even being made out of brass and after all this time, if they did wind up flat, they would more than likely end up with splits or distorted. There were decrotive pieces put opposite of the locks on most guns of the time, but these look too small for that purpose. Most of the ones I've seen on this post would fit into the decorations on the forearms on most rifles. Most only had them tieing into the pins that held that barrel, but I've seen where they doubled the decoration and added other badges to the fore-arm. From the way these look, especially the CS, it looks like something that was added just below the tang.

hello BuckleBoy i have found more than a few of these and wondered what they might have gone to as well all of mine were recovered from late colonial to early federal homesites and all have somekind of stamped or engraved design to here's a picture of the latest two i picked up this year .Dan

I still think they are decorative personal id plates.......
http://www.historygateway.co.uk/history-tudor-artifacts.html

I have seen this type of tag used on old trunks and suitcases as well.

Leddel,

Thanks so much for posting yours.  I think it is interesting that you have the same two basic shapes as any of the ones I've found... the oblong shape and the oval shape.  The time frame for these seems to be late colonial era up through early 1800s.

It seems that their use was widespread--civilian, military, in the USA, as well as abroad (as can be seen on the link Gypsy provided in her reply). 

I agree with Fast Dave that because of the countersinking, they probably would've been riveted to something (are we thinking horse tack here?)  The old square nail in mine would seem to speak otherwise, but I agree about the nail not being flush with the top anyhow--so why make the brass that way..  Mine could've been a later use for the object--in which it was nailed after the rivets came loose... 

Does anyone else have one with iron markings from nails in them?  If not, rivets are probably the way to go.

About the furniture pieces...how many pieces of decorative furniture were in single-slung log cabins in the Western Frontier of KY and Indiana in the early 1800s?  I'm pretty sure that there weren't many elaborate pieces.  If these had a keyhole in them, we'd know easily what they were... I also can't imagine a piece or decoration like that which would not survive in some form or another in later furniture decorations--especially in the florid Victorian-Era furnishings.  So I'm inclined to say (still) either horse-tack or weapon-related.

AZ--can you find a photo of one on a rifle or musket?

I still think they are decorative personal id plates.......
http://www.historygateway.co.uk/history-tudor-artifacts.html

Yes, one is listed as a "personal ID tag" there--and it is the oval variety with the two holes and the edge markings. 

I guess my issue with this ID is that of all of these that have been found, none of them which appear posted online, or those found by other Tnet members has a name or initials on it--so it really isn't an ID tag...  And I really wonder if the history gateway site has the ID correct. 




These are just my hunches--online photos are sparse, and there really isn't much on these items.  I don't know really what I'm looking for here, besides a photo of one of these attached to some leather or wood, or perhaps just the idea that fits the best...

And maybe it'll be the type of thing that after 50 replies we'll be back at horse tack... I don't know.  But I do think that with as many of these as have been found and are being found, someone has to know something.

 

I have seen this type of tag used on old trunks and suitcases as well.

Can you find a photo?  I'd love to see one if you can find a photo.


Thanks for your reply,


Buckleboy

Hey BB, here's a pretty good pic of what I was talking about. Keep in mind that with any other type of decoration, they can come in a variety of styles. http://www.krusemuzzleloaders.com/D...convertible%20Bethlehem%20Rifle.htm

Hey BB, here's a pretty good pic of what I was talking about. Keep in mind that with any other type of decoration, they can come in a variety of styles. http://www.krusemuzzleloaders.com/D...convertible%20Bethlehem%20Rifle.htm

AZ,

Thanks for the link. 

I'm not certain that's what we've got here though.  I'm quite familiar with the decoration on the bottom of the stock, as well as the side decoration--which was frequently serpent-shaped.  I've dug examples of both types before.  I do see those little ovals on the side of the rifle though--is that what you're referring to?  I've also dug pieces of the trigger guard and lock mechanism from early guns before.

Too bad they don't have a close-up of those oval pieces.  They look a little too small compared to the examples pictured above in the post, but they are the same shape.   


I have a good friend in Virginia who builds muskets (at least I think he still does).  I may give him a call and send him a photo.



Regards,


Buckleboy

I have also found these at early 1800s sites. I was told several years ago that they are early saddle disk. Now exactly what a saddle disk function is, "I have no idea". If you look closely at the tapered hole you will see it's not perfect as the brass was poured into a mold in which the taper was formed into, then a thin web was punched out for the complete hole. I'm satisfied they are from somewhere in the 1790 to 1830 +-.

I have also found these at early 1800s sites. I was told several years ago that they are early saddle disk. Now exactly what a saddle disk function is, "I have no idea". If you look closely at the tapered hole you will see it's not perfect as the brass was poured into a mold in which the taper was formed into, then a thin web was punched out for the complete hole. I'm satisfied they are from somewhere in the 1790 to 1830 +-.

Rob,

Thanks for your reply.  I'm confident in the date range too...

I was unable to find anything about a "saddle disc" anywhere on line...   

You're right about the holes in the pieces--and their construction.


Regards,


Buckleboy

Buckleboy,I had never seen one of these oval pieces until i saw it on your post last night. I couldn't believe it when one turned up for me tonight within a foot or so of this St Joseph piece. Sorry if I'm only adding to the mystery. This comes from the same cellarhole site that has produced an 1865 Two center,1865 IH and 1868 IH and a no date "Fatty" IH and it came from the "path" to a sandstone lined springhouse just across a ravine from the cellarhole. No identifying marks that I can see without cleaning it up better but after scratching the edge I can definitely tell it's brass...
Jerry
 

could it be a decorative tag from a boot?  I've seen newer versions that the laces on a boot towards the toe,  would weave through the holes to keep it attached to the boot,  or possible an ID tag from the bottom of a boot.  In vietnam,  they attached dog tags to their boots to help in ID'ing bodies

Sniffer

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-uniforms/dog_tags.htm

I knew I had one that looked pretty close. I thought mine was an adornment from a horses bridle or a saddle.

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-uniforms/dog_tags.htm

Gypsy,

Thanks for your reply.   

I really don't think these are ID discs...because there is no information written on them...and even an ID disc from a confederate soldier would've had more than just "C.S." stamped on it...


Regards,


Buckleboy

Not convinced it's saddle tack after looking at hundreds of antique saddles and bridles but here's an oval shaped piece of hardware from an antique saddle that shows a resemblance

Not convinced it's saddle tack after looking at hundreds of antique saddles and bridles but here's an oval shaped piece of hardware from an antique saddle that shows a resemblance

  But are the saddles you're looking at over 150 years old?  Things tend to change slightly over time.

Not convinced it's saddle tack after looking at hundreds of antique saddles and bridles but here's an oval shaped piece of hardware from an antique saddle that shows a resemblance

  But are the saddles you're looking at over 150 years old?  Things tend to change slightly over time.

_{good point Ironpatch.This is a McClelland saddle dated 1904 which is still probably 50 years too new}

Nice work, Jerry--but I think Iron Patch is right.  The hole in the center isn't there on any of these...I've seen these saddle pieces before--and at first that's what I thought the oval style ones were...  I think we need to find some 200 year old saddles.


Thanks for posting yours, John.  Even the decoration on it looks similar to the elongated one I posted up top.


-Buckles

I was looking back through some relics, and found this sample that resembles what we have been trying to ID. It came from a 1700-1800 site. I have found several others, but can't locate them. Some are brass/copper, but this one is a nickel silver, or even silver. It measures about an 1 1/2" X 5/8". I think that we arestarting to see some tags here that are really not the same as what originally started this thread BB. Lets limit the ID to "sharp" eliptical shaped metal with two holes. I have found several especially like the eliptical one on the left side of the first picture that was posted on the thread. M

I was looking back through some relics, and found this sample that resembles what we have been trying to ID. It came from a 1700-1800 site. I have found several others, but can't locate them. Some are brass/copper, but this one is a nickel silver, or even silver. It measures about an 1 1/2" X 5/8". I think that we arestarting to see some tags here that are really not the same as what originally started this thread BB. Lets limit the ID to "sharp" eliptical shaped metal with two holes. I have found several especially like the eliptical one on the left side of the first picture that was posted on the thread. M

Sounds good.  The thread is hereby limited to the "sharp" elliptical ones like the one you posted--and Thank You SO much for posting this one!

It's interesting that your specimen is silver or nickel silver.  Evidently these decorations saw widespread use by individuals at many income levels. 

I assume there are no markings on the one you found?


Best Wishes,


Buckleboy

There is no mark on the underside. The holes are beveled/flared on the reverse side like the other ones posted. Like I said, I have several of these, that all date to 1700-early 1800 sights. Some are copper/brass. There is a slight curve to the plane so that it is not perfectly flat.

Here's one...

See photo 163 (this is SCDigger's gallery):


http://imageevent.com/scdigger/reli...=4&x=1&m=51&w=0&p=0


-Buckles

Buckle, Item 163 is slightly different, but similar as well.... M

#163 looks to be the same size as your egg shaped piece..what the heck are these things for? 

#163 looks to be the same size as your egg shaped piece..what the heck are these things for? 

Yeah I know I should've restricted this thread to the oblong ones, but I couldn't help posting this one--since I haven't found too many of them online.


-Buckles

bump.... I've got one too

bump.... I've got one too

Thank you for posting, scratcher.   


More fuel for the fire on figuring out what the heck these things are.



Best Wishes,



Buckles

Sure looks something like the heel plate off of the handle of a hammer or hatchet to me.
maybe off some other tool with a wooden handle.

I did forward my friend a few photos of these items, and he said that they were nothing that he had ever seen in his work building vintage weapons.


Looks like some of the oblong ones have places where a nail could be set flush (i.e., attached to wood perhaps instead of leather...in which case they'd have just riveted the piece on).  Many of them have traces of rust from the iron nails.  The piece that leddel posted shows a break at one of the nail holes from stress or use, and wear at the other.

I think the keys to figuring these out is that most or all of the holes are "countersunk" on the opposite side of the decoration, and we can't find something they are still attached to.  I know they are nothing "important", but I have the same feelings as Buckle Boy when this many are found without positive ID.  I'll be suprised if someone doesn't come up with the definitive answer eventually......

I am about to go blind looking at Civil War gear on various web sites.  Whatever they are they were in common use or there wouldn't be so many of them found.  It's something simple I'll bet.  M  nty

I am about to go blind looking at Civil War gear on various web sites.  Whatever they are they were in common use or there wouldn't be so many of them found.  It's something simple I'll bet.  M  nty

I would imagine that the oblong shaped ones predate the CW by a good many years--but as the "C.S." example shows, the oval ones were still in use in some fashion.  I also agree that it is something simple that we're overlooking.  That "C.S." is the only example I have ever seen that had CW ties...but I've seen many other examples that were plain, or had some ornamentation...  So I almost decided not to put the "C.S." on this post--but I thought it might give us a clue. 

I figure it'll be similar to the parasol clip ID...somebody will say "this is what it was" and the rest of us will go "Doh!--why didn't I think of that?"


-Buckles

on the item that looks like the bottom of an old iron...check out a fellow by the name of robfinds...his avatar looks so much like this item...thank you

his medieval seal matrix is only the same shape & thats about as close as it gets.

I found many of these, in fact one on Sunday but don't keep them.  I always thought furniture related but no evidence.

on the item that looks like the bottom of an old iron...check out a fellow by the name of robfinds...his avatar looks so much like this item...thank you

his medieval seal matrix is only the same shape & thats about as close as it gets.

I found many of these, in fact one on Sunday but don't keep them.  I always thought furniture related but no evidence.

Throwing them in the hedge, eh?    If you wouldn't mind, I'd love to see a photo sometime of what types of these items you're finding over there. 

on the item that looks like the bottom of an old iron...check out a fellow by the name of robfinds...his avatar looks so much like this item...thank you

his medieval seal matrix is only the same shape & thats about as close as it gets.

I found many of these, in fact one on Sunday but don't keep them.  I always thought furniture related but no evidence.

Throwing them in the hedge, eh?    If you wouldn't mind, I'd love to see a photo sometime of what types of these items you're finding over there. 

Just for you I dug around in my furniture deco bag & pulled these out.  I only keep the ones with decor & not the plain ones which I have had many of.  As the holes are standard width apart I thought its furniture related, might be tack I suppose   Are yours about 22mm from centre of hole to centre of hole?

on the item that looks like the bottom of an old iron...check out a fellow by the name of robfinds...his avatar looks so much like this item...thank you

his medieval seal matrix is only the same shape & thats about as close as it gets.

I found many of these, in fact one on Sunday but don't keep them.  I always thought furniture related but no evidence.

Throwing them in the hedge, eh?    If you wouldn't mind, I'd love to see a photo sometime of what types of these items you're finding over there. 

Just for you I dug around in my furniture deco bag & pulled these out.  I only keep the ones with decor & not the plain ones which I have had many of.  As the holes are standard width apart I thought its furniture related, might be tack I suppose   Are yours about 22mm from centre of hole to centre of hole?

The oval ones are 22mm from center of hole to center of hole.  The elongated ones are 27mm. 

on the item that looks like the bottom of an old iron...check out a fellow by the name of robfinds...his avatar looks so much like this item...thank you

his medieval seal matrix is only the same shape & thats about as close as it gets.

I found many of these, in fact one on Sunday but don't keep them.  I always thought furniture related but no evidence.

Throwing them in the hedge, eh?    If you wouldn't mind, I'd love to see a photo sometime of what types of these items you're finding over there. 

Just for you I dug around in my furniture deco bag & pulled these out.  I only keep the ones with decor & not the plain ones which I have had many of.  As the holes are standard width apart I thought its furniture related, might be tack I suppose   Are yours about 22mm from centre of hole to centre of hole?

The oval ones are 22mm from center of hole to center of hole.  The elongated ones are 27mm. 

so a universial standard for what?

so a universial standard for what?

Danged good question!   

Bump 
Here's mine, kinda looks the same.
HH
Jeff K

I'm wondering if these might be plain furniture or bed bolt hole covers.  When trying to confirm, I could only find the more decorative single screw covers, as pictured below.  But I did find this quotation an a restoration site.

Install bed bolt covers to hide the hole the bolt sits in. Since beds will need tightening periodically, it is most practical to select a cover that is held on by a single screw. Then, the cover can be swung up and the bolt exposed for tightening. Bed bolt covers come in a variety of styles and finishes, from quite decorative to very simple. Larger covers, held on by 2 screws, are most often used on antique beds, where the hole is large and there are marks to cover.

woodspiritcarver--first off, Thank You for posting another one of these.      Would you measure yours from the center of one hole to the center of the other, in millimeters?

(Here's a website that's basically a ruler on the page.  The site measures your screen size and the correct sized ruler appears.  )

http://iruler.net/


GpSnoopy--you may be onto something.  I still can't explain the "C.S." one I posted--but it may be red herring, since I have been unable to locate any similarly marked pieces in either relic guides, forums, or online dealers.  These unmarked decorative items however, seem to be everywhere. 

Usually a bolt hole is larger, if I'm not mistaken--so the brass piece has to have more of a bulge in its center.  The oblong pieces in the post above I believe are too narrow to cover up a bolt so that it could not be seen.  The oval pieces could.  We may be dealing with two different functions for two different pieces here, and I'm foolishly lumping them together as "brass thingys with two holes."  

#165 in SC Digger's photo album:

http://imageevent.com/scdigger/reli...=4&x=1&m=51&w=0&p=0

This one has been turned into a "whizzer."  So again, these items are Late Colonial and Federal Period.

I really just believe these are just normal metal labels, used for identification of something.  It could be the contents of a drawer, a manufactures mark for furniture, a brand name; actually anything you want.  You just could also buy them blank and with a letter/number die pound into them whatevery you want.  I have seen many of them also here in Europe in old hardware stores, put on the wooden drawers to describe the contents.  They could be screwed or nailed onto wood, or riveted onto metal.  Nothing much special about them really, I have found many in all the years.  CV could mean anything, you just take a blank label, and pound what ever letter you want in it.  If people wanted the screw to be flat and even with the label they would countersink them.  And they could be just as fancy or elaborate as you want, just cost more that's all.  Could also be used on horse leather also...

Bump 
Here's mine, kinda looks the same.
HH
Jeff K

Yours looks like a driveshaft u-joint bracket that has been flattened out.     ...unless its brass then forget what I just said.

I really just believe these are just normal metal labels, used for identification of something.  It could be the contents of a drawer, a manufactures mark for furniture, a brand name; actually anything you want.  You just could also buy them blank and with a letter/number die pound into them whatevery you want.  I have seen many of them also here in Europe in old hardware stores, put on the wooden drawers to describe the contents.  They could be screwed or nailed onto wood, or riveted onto metal.  Nothing much special about them really, I have found many in all the years.  CV could mean anything, you just take a blank label, and pound what ever letter you want in it.  If people wanted the screw to be flat and even with the label they would countersink them.  And they could be just as fancy or elaborate as you want, just cost more that's all.  Could also be used on horse leather also...

There's a lot of truth to this, woody.  I'm certain that these pieces aren't much that's special.  But I would love to know what they were.


My argument against them being an ID card or identification label--is that other than the one example I found that is American Civil War related, None of the others have anything stamped into them besides decorative patterns.


If these pieces were used for identification, then shouldn't someone should be finding one that's stamped with Letters?   




Best Wishes,



Buckleboy


P.S.--what is that in your new Avatar photo?  

I think these were not attached to wood or metal.  If they were, I believe someone would have found one attached or at least a picture of one. As common as they seem to be,  it sure seems like someone should have made an ID by finding one still attached.  It also doesn't make sense that the countersink is on the OPPOSITE SIDE of the decoration.  It seems to me they were probably attached to cloth or leather with some kind of rivet or something else that didn't hold up well.  I too believe that the one I found is federal period or quite a bit older based on the location and the other things at this site.  Nothing else but really old stuff here. Out in the middle of nowhere, no homesite. The only thing that makes me wonder is what looks like a nail in BB's sample early in the thread .... Weren't most things attached to leather this long ago designed with foldover prongs?  Were there round nails then? Were there rivets?  Just food for thought. I wish someone would take their sample, pound it into something, take a picture  and call it solved so I could quit thinking about it

I really just believe these are just normal metal labels, used for identification of something.  It could be the contents of a drawer, a manufactures mark for furniture, a brand name; actually anything you want.  You just could also buy them blank and with a letter/number die pound into them whatevery you want.  I have seen many of them also here in Europe in old hardware stores, put on the wooden drawers to describe the contents.  They could be screwed or nailed onto wood, or riveted onto metal.  Nothing much special about them really, I have found many in all the years.  CV could mean anything, you just take a blank label, and pound what ever letter you want in it.  If people wanted the screw to be flat and even with the label they would countersink them.  And they could be just as fancy or elaborate as you want, just cost more that's all.  Could also be used on horse leather also...

There's a lot of truth to this, woody.  I'm certain that these pieces aren't much that's special.  But I would love to know what they were.
My argument against them being an ID card or identification label--is that other than the one example I found that is American Civil War related, None of the others have anything stamped into them besides decorative patterns.
If these pieces were used for identification, then shouldn't someone should be finding one that's stamped with Letters?   
Best Wishes,
Buckleboy
P.S.--what is that in your new Avatar photo?  

Hi Buckleboy, of course there are a lot also just for decoration, I have found also the majority blank.   Will see if I can find something more about the.

About the Avatar.... I am hoping that someone can guess what it is...  If not I will put it in "What is it" and let everyone guess?
I do know what it is, have even seen it in action.  Also I have found quite a few.....

I really just believe these are just normal metal labels, used for identification of something.  It could be the contents of a drawer, a manufactures mark for furniture, a brand name; actually anything you want.  You just could also buy them blank and with a letter/number die pound into them whatevery you want.  I have seen many of them also here in Europe in old hardware stores, put on the wooden drawers to describe the contents.  They could be screwed or nailed onto wood, or riveted onto metal.  Nothing much special about them really, I have found many in all the years.  CV could mean anything, you just take a blank label, and pound what ever letter you want in it.  If people wanted the screw to be flat and even with the label they would countersink them.  And they could be just as fancy or elaborate as you want, just cost more that's all.  Could also be used on horse leather also...

There's a lot of truth to this, woody.  I'm certain that these pieces aren't much that's special.  But I would love to know what they were.
My argument against them being an ID card or identification label--is that other than the one example I found that is American Civil War related, None of the others have anything stamped into them besides decorative patterns.
If these pieces were used for identification, then shouldn't someone should be finding one that's stamped with Letters?   
Best Wishes,
Buckleboy
P.S.--what is that in your new Avatar photo?  

Hi Buckleboy, of course there are a lot also just for decoration, I have found also the majority blank.   Will see if I can find something more about the.

About the Avatar.... I am hoping that someone can guess what it is...  If not I will put it in "What is it" and let everyone guess?
I do know what it is, have even seen it in action.  Also I have found quite a few.....

Look like oxen shoes to me

I think these were not attached to wood or metal.  If they were, I believe someone would have found one attached or at least a picture of one. As common as they seem to be,  it sure seems like someone should have made an ID by finding one still attached.  It also doesn't make sense that the countersink is on the OPPOSITE SIDE of the decoration.  It seems to me they were probably attached to cloth or leather with some kind of rivet or something else that didn't hold up well.  I too believe that the one I found is federal period or quite a bit older based on the location and the other things at this site.  Nothing else but really old stuff here. Out in the middle of nowhere, no homesite. The only thing that makes me wonder is what looks like a nail in BB's sample early in the thread .... Weren't most things attached to leather this long ago designed with foldover prongs?  Were there round nails then? Were there rivets?  Just food for thought. I wish someone would take their sample, pound it into something, take a picture  and call it solved so I could quit thinking about it

I agree with you.  Eventually one with metal or wood attached should turn up, if that's what they were attached to.  And I also agree that it's strange to countersink the holes on the other side from the decorative side.  I wonder if these were attached to a leather harness or something similar.  Then the countersinking of the holes on the non-decorated side would make sense--to avoid chafing/rubbing/cutting an animal during the use of the harness. 

The only example I've found anywhere with a nail or even traces of rust was the first one I posted at the top of the thread.  So that may be misleading too--since the example may have been nailed to a doorframe for later use, or used for some other function than the original function of the piece. 

The fact that some of these have misshapen holes due to wear, and even outright breakage at the hole may suggest that these pieces had more rugged purposes than furniture decorations, drawer pulls, or bolt hole covers.


Woody, thank you for your help on this one.  Anything you can dig up on these pieces I'd love to hear it.  It seems that they are more common overseas than they are here--due to your older occupation no doubt.  Someone, somewhere knows what these things are.

Meanwhile, I will do my best to figure out what is on your avatar.    What size are they?



Best Wishes,



Buckleboy

P.S.--what is that in your new Avatar photo?   

About the Avatar.... I am hoping that someone can guess what it is...  If not I will put it in "What is it" and
let everyone guess?  I do know what it is, have even seen it in action.  Also I have found quite a few.....

Since I read the instructions in What Is It ("Please Read Before Posting Items in What Is It?", Do not deliberately
withhold any information just to "have fun" seeing if members can guess correctly.)  So I see I can't put it or
answer your questions there, it's not allowed.

Cru's guess is "Look like oxen shoes to me".
BuckleBoy : Meanwhile, I will do my best to figure out what is on your avatar.    What size are they?

The three I have on display are 3 1/2" x 1 1/2", 4 1/2" x 2", and 4 3/4" x 2".
Many people have asked "What are they" when they see them in my Roman/Byzantine Cabinet.  They have never guessed
right.  And then we have Crusader....  I really don't know what is wrong with the guy, the answer seems to pop right
out of his head, and so easy.

Yea Cru, you hit the head of the nail, exactly.  These we dug up in Serbia, many of them.  About as much as you find a
ball of tinfoil or a tin can top in normal hunting.  I sort of like them, and especially after I saw cows being shoed once. 

Because Serbia (in any case the part of it where I search) is very mountainous and rocky, cows have shoes.  There are few
horses there, or at least I have never seen a horse, but plenty of cows.  If they didn't have shoes on their feet would get all
cut up.

Here are 2 photos which shows the 4 sided nails they use to mount them, I have also never seen oxen there (but I am sure
they must be somewhere), so I call them "Cow Shoes".....




Here are a couple of photo of "Cow Shoeing"

The equipment, the cow shoes are in the center of the photo


The patient


Oops, topsy-turvy! 
Funny is that the animals don't struggle at all, just lay down.  I guess they
know what's going to happen.


Hammering it down


Hope you enjoyed these photos!

That's great, Woody!  Seems like Serbia would be a wonderful place to hunt.  Lots of interesting history there--including Cow Shoes LOL. 

I would ask about your new avatar...But, I want to steer this thread back on track now. 



Best Wishes,




Buckles

It's nice getting something solved on this thread!   Now will those of you wise in the ways of shoeing please direct your attention to my new "strange shoe" What is it? thread...

It's nice getting something solved on this thread!   Now will those of you wise in the ways of shoeing please direct your attention to my new "strange shoe" What is it? thread...

You are of course right Scratcher.... Didn't want to answer that here but where then, I didn't know.

Hey Woody, I'm just glad to get another positive idea on some of my stuff! Thanks. 

I think I got this one. Look at the link and scroll down to the engraved rifle medallion. Also one in rifle parts photo a. 
Probably not their only use but this is one example.
Randy

http://www.korns.org/lepley_gunsmithing/Lepley_gunsmithing_index.html

Hello Everyone,

I have an idea on the items in question.  The piece I have inserted in the 2-holed mystery piece was found at the same site as my sample and seems to fit it very well.  I had this idea earlier but none of the pronged pieces that I had previously recovered matched it.  I had posted them earlier here and I don't believe anyone came up with a photo of them in use either.  If these pieces do go together it would be likely that they were used to corral the end of a belt or leather strap after passing through a buckle.  This 'washer' would keep the leather from bunching up after the prongs were folded over and enable easier insertion.   Has anyone else found any of the pronged pieces that would match?  If not then this may just be a coincidence of course.  But this type of use makes more sense to me than their being screwed or nailed into something. 
 
Let me know what you think.

Scratcher

Hello Everyone,

I have an idea on the items in question.  The piece I have inserted in the 2-holed mystery piece was found at the same site as my sample and seems to fit it very well.  I had this idea earlier but none of the pronged pieces that I had previously recovered matched it.  I had posted them earlier here and I don't believe anyone came up with a photo of them in use either.  If these pieces do go together it would be likely that they were used to corral the end of a belt or leather strap after passing through a buckle.  This 'washer' would keep the leather from bunching up after the prongs were folded over and enable easier insertion.   Has anyone else found any of the pronged pieces that would match?  If not then this may just be a coincidence of course.  But this type of use makes more sense to me than their being screwed or nailed into something. 
 
Let me know what you think.

Scratcher

You maybe on to something.  I too have found & chucked many of those pronged pieces.  Although they were broken lower down & didn't have as longer nail pieces.  Next time I find one & will keep it & see if they fit.

So they could easily be horse tack related.

I forgot to mention that my piece is a little bit longer than the other posted sizes.  It does seem that they should be of different sizes and shapes if this is what they were used for.   They could also be used on belts?  Did they use waist belts from the time period in question?

I forgot to mention that my piece is a little bit longer than the other posted sizes.  It does seem that they should be of different sizes and shapes if this is what they were used for.   They could also be used on belts?  Did they use waist belts from the time period in question?

They had similar 'belt sniffener' which were of a much earlier period (several hundred).  I'm not sure (don't think) that they had these in the Georgian/Victorian times.

I think I got this one. Look at the link and scroll down to the engraved rifle medallion. Also one in rifle parts photo a. 
Probably not their only use but this is one example.
Randy

http://www.korns.org/lepley_gunsmithing/Lepley_gunsmithing_index.html

Found in a bucket of gun parts.  http://korns.org/lepley_gunsmithing/lepley-engraved-medallion.html

I think I got this one. Look at the link and scroll down to the engraved rifle medallion. Also one in rifle parts photo a. 
Probably not their only use but this is one example.
Randy

http://www.korns.org/lepley_gunsmithing/Lepley_gunsmithing_index.html

Found in a bucket of gun parts.  http://korns.org/lepley_gunsmithing/lepley-engraved-medallion.html

Only problem is, that we in the UK find so many as to discount this theory for all of them.

I think I got this one. Look at the link and scroll down to the engraved rifle medallion. Also one in rifle parts photo a. 
Probably not their only use but this is one example.
Randy

http://www.korns.org/lepley_gunsmithing/Lepley_gunsmithing_index.html

Found in a bucket of gun parts.  http://korns.org/lepley_gunsmithing/lepley-engraved-medallion.html

Only problem is, that we in the UK find so many as to discount this theory for all of them.

I agree. Upon further research I have found very few sites that mention these being used on guns. So this
cannot account for the numbers of them being found. I think scratcher is on to something. Leather related?
I think so.
Randy

my buddy found one with the other part still connected , its in his display but i put a red square around it

my buddy found one with the other part still connected , its in his display but i put a red square around it

I have found many of those things with the nails (although nails mostly missing).  They were identicial to the ones in the photo.  Always wonder what it attached to & now I know.  So its more likely Horse related as previously discussed.

my buddy found one with the other part still connected , its in his display but i put a red square around it

I wonder what side has the design?

my buddy found one with the other part still connected , its in his display but i put a red square around it

I wonder what side has the design?

most are plain, only some decorated

Leddel,

Thanks for taking the time to post that picture.  I hoped someone had more evidence buried somewhere in their finds.  So I think we have significatly narrowed down their purpose.  It's too bad more old horse tack or leather hasn't survived to show us exactly how they were used. With more teamwork maybe someone can come up with a picture in use.  I'd say it's pretty close to solved.....

Well...I have been looking at this until I am crosseyed. What we need is someone with a book on civil war
saddles. These things are a type of saddle shield. Instead of being slotted for the leather strap to pass through,
the strap passes through the staple which is driven into the saddle tree. The oval piece is for decoration and
strength. If you google "civil war saddle shield" you will find more pictures of them. I have yet to find a good
picture of a saddle with one showing on it, but if someone has a book I think we can solve this thread. The
pictures below shows some found in Tennessee. Ohio Jerry almost had this one solved back on Aug 27. Instead
of McClellan, this is much older like the Grimsley Dragoon or older.
Randy

Well...I have been looking at this until I am crosseyed. What we need is someone with a book on civil war
saddles. These things are a type of saddle shield. Instead of being slotted for the leather strap to pass through,
the strap passes through the staple which is driven into the saddle tree. The oval piece is for decoration and
strength. If you google "civil war saddle shield" you will find more pictures of them. I have yet to find a good
picture of a saddle with one showing on it, but if someone has a book I think we can solve this thread. The
pictures below shows some found in Tennessee.
Randy

No CW at that time over here

Well...I have been looking at this until I am crosseyed. What we need is someone with a book on civil war
saddles. These things are a type of saddle shield. Instead of being slotted for the leather strap to pass through,
the strap passes through the staple which is driven into the saddle tree. The oval piece is for decoration and
strength. If you google "civil war saddle shield" you will find more pictures of them. I have yet to find a good
picture of a saddle with one showing on it, but if someone has a book I think we can solve this thread. The
pictures below shows some found in Tennessee.
Randy

No CW at that time over here

Sorry Cru...I have modified my post above. Civil War or older.

If they are driven into a saddle tree wouldn't the prongs all be broken off or straight instead of bent?  I suppose they could have been bent after they came out, but it seems awfully unlikely that the samples would have both the prongs bent inward if they were driven into wood and then pulled out.  Just my two cents worth of course,  could be way off...

I'm not 100% convinced myself. Lots of people have found them and call them saddle shields. The only picture I can find that shows them is dark and you can't really see them very well. That's why we need a book on saddles. I have posted that pic below. You can see the staple pieces in front but can't see the oval piece. There is however an oval tag right in front. I think these things had many uses and the ones posted with the staple looking pieces are just one such use. Back to the research.
Randy

Thank you all for keeping the trail hot on figuring this item out during my absence.   


I found yet another one this past week at an early 1800s site. 



I agree that we need a book on saddles.  Any suggestions?

Thank you all for keeping the trail hot on figuring this item out during my absence.   


I found yet another one this past week at an early 1800s site. 



I agree that we need a book on saddles.  Any suggestions?

Are you back then?

Thank you all for keeping the trail hot on figuring this item out during my absence.   


I found yet another one this past week at an early 1800s site. 



I agree that we need a book on saddles.  Any suggestions?

Are you back then?

I won't tell if you won't.   

Hey Buckleboy,we've got yet another decorative oval brass piece to add to the mystery;

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index....c,222253.msg1610069.html#msg1610069

Here's another one for reference Buckles

Someone hit the mother load on a calvary camp...NICE