OKM??

After researching the OKM EXP 4000 and some of the other products they carry, I still cant come to a conclusion on if I want to purchase th exp or something may be more "reliable" such as the minelab 4500. Im searching in areas with lots of minerals and not that much trash. Im lookin in depths of 10-30 ft deep, and looking for larger sized treasures. Im not really doubting the capability of each of the machines I just want to make sure the okm is reliable. or should I just spend less money for something thats not as advanced but works better?

Hey there,

In regards to OKM and mineralized soil, please let it be known that the OKM capabilities are greatly compromised in highly mineralized soil. 

check this out

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,259993.0.html

I just received another E-Mail from a new user of the OKM equipment.  When you are locating an object there are some primary rules that you need to follow.

1.  Do not turn or rotate the equipment.  Please keep it facing the same direction as when it starts.
2.  Practice with the equipment on known targets so that you familiarize yourself with it and know the ins and outs.  This goes for all equipment regardless of what it is.
---  The OKM equipment will find cavities, faults and other fracture zones in the ground.
3.  With their software don't be deceived by a red spot on the software unless there is a hole (blue area) right next to it.  Non-ferrous metals act as an amplifier so an old tin can may become your target.
4.  Make sure your battery(ies) are charged.  The number one reason for equipment failure are uncharged or weak batteries.

After researching the OKM EXP 4000 and some of the other products they carry, I still cant come to a conclusion on if I want to purchase th exp or something may be more "reliable" such as the minelab 4500. Im searching in areas with lots of minerals and not that much trash. Im lookin in depths of 10-30 ft deep, and looking for larger sized treasures. Im not really doubting the capability of each of the machines I just want to make sure the okm is reliable. or should I just spend less money for something thats not as advanced but works better?

The OKM Rover C that I have is from 2003 and has operated without a flaw.  The best way to determine if it is right for you is to either visit a dealer, or find someone local who understands the equipment to show you.  There have been a lot of finds with the OKM equipment.  I personally have had a couple and there are a lot of people with a lot of testimonials.  But in regards to reliability, I have been problem free. 

One question, are you looking for natural treasure or buried treasure???

A friend of mine bought the OKM EXP 4000 and when we use a 1 meter vertical antenna on a known target (aluminum wheel from a car) buried at 1.5 meters, the results are inconsistent.During the test run and after downloading the image to the visualizer program it shows a red spot at the 11-th impulse mark altough we know it should be at the 9-th. Is it possible that we are not even detecting the wheel and there is something else at the 11-th impulse mark?
 Also if somebody has experience with this unit I'm curious to know what kind of metal targets they have been able to detect and at what depth. And also if it can locate tunnels.
 He asked me to find out as much as possible about this unit and I'd hate to be the one telling him that he spent 30,000 Euro for this piece of crap....

Have your friend contact me directly  fcasser@okm-gmbh.de so that I can assisst him.  There can possibly be something at the 11th pulse.  If there is a ferrous object nearby a non-ferrous object the ferrous object will take precedence.  The non-ferrous object may still be showing, just not as strong because it is being masked. 

Last weekend we had a possible find and right now we are waiting for the weather to clear to make a positive id on what it is. 

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/aN3S5SNLQqM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/aN3S5SNLQqM</a>

Also have your friend send me the scans  *.v3d so that I can assist him even more.

Hi cassbiz ,thanx for the reply. My friend lives in a village with no internet connection. I will visit him in a few days to do more tests then copy  and e-mail you the images.

Please do.  Our new web site http://www.okm-usa.com will also be open by Monday where you can get even more information and help.

I look forward to resolving your friends issues.

I had tried the OKM Exp4000 and came up with
the following observations: (these were my personal observations and i have no intention to destroy the refutation of OKM/ )
1. It cant give an accurate depth measurement. We detected a target at 7 meters and yet when we reached 7m, the target is not there.
2. The signal tends to spread out as it gets through the soil layers. The located target is not directly under the area detected.
3. The target buried in layers of chromite cannot be detected/discriminated.

Hello Kaloy,

The depth is calculated off of the input soil.  Unfortunately, with different soil conditions it is very difficult to give an accurate depth.  Personally I don't use that data.

Questions for you. 

Were you able to repeat the scan and hit the target every time?
Did you cross the target from varying compass headings, ie from the North, East, West, South?

Can you please send me the files and I will gladly analyze them for you.

fcasser@okm-gmbh.de

kaloy , SEVEN METERS? You must be really pissed. I've seen people dig 9 meters in granite because a "electroscope"LRL" pointed there...

That is why I make sure there are a lot of scans before digging.

 I sent cassbiz  5  OKM scans from 5 totally different locations. This is the professional response that I got:

Hello HiiiQ,
 
I was able to take a look at the scans and they look most impressive from the surface.
 
As I analyzed the scans, it appears that there is a fair amount of ground water in the area.  Also the most prominent target is on the ground but not deep.  As a matter of fact it almost appears to be on the surface or right below it.
 
When the signal strength is very strong there are a couple of indications that need to be taken into consideration.
 
1.  Is there a ground fault that was traversed?  If so, then is it at one point or does it continue on in a linear path?
 
2.  Is there a well or air shaft?  A well and an airshaft from a mine will almost appear exactly the same from the initial first scan. Whereas an airshaft usually can be differentiated by locating a mine shaft or tunnel in the vicinity.  Best guess when such a strong signal is realized is to take a metal detector over the target area and see if there is a hit there.  In the event that excavation seems to be the way to go, as soon as the first 20~30cm of topsoil is removed, perform another scan.  Is your target still there?
 
3.  Is it surface trash?  This is by far the most frustrating.  The signal is so strong that you think you are on top of something big.  A standard metal detector will help you to determine if it is surface trash.  The eXp 4000 has a metal detector accessory or just a standard separate one will also work.  For the most part you are only looking from 0~20 cm deep.
 
All in all, like I mentioned earlier, real targets don't move.  This appears to be a real target unfortunately it may be surface trash and I would scan the area with a metal detector to verify that it is or isn't before putting a lot of effort into it.
 
Hope this helps,
 
Frank Casser
OKM-USA

 Is that total nonsense or am I crazy?    I tried to explain to my friend that he bought a worthless piece of crap and he doesn't believe me because it is so  "expensive".
 I taught GOLDEN KING PLUS is crap but it is at least based on real technology and can equal or exceed the performance of a $200 Bounty Hunter.
 OKM is a low grade magnetometer with software that creates some fancy worthless pictures. Don't forget that it comes from the same company that makes the BIONIC long-range locator. A couple of friends have it but I don't even want to discuss it.....
   Correct me if I'm wrong.
   

Hello Kaloy,

The depth is calculated off of the input soil.  Unfortunately, with different soil conditions it is very difficult to give an accurate depth.  Personally I don't use that data.

Questions for you. 

Were you able to repeat the scan and hit the target every time?
Did you cross the target from varying compass headings, ie from the North, East, West, South?

Can you please send me the files and I will gladly analyze them for you.

fcasser@okm-gmbh.de

I will. Yes we repeat the scan and get the same results.

kaloy , SEVEN METERS? You must be really pissed. I've seen people dig 9 meters in granite because a "electroscope"LRL" pointed there...

definitely. we paid Php50,000 for the scan.

Hi to all
I  thought that it would be of interest to share my experiences using the okm equipment, like others out there i also wanted to believe the claims made by this company, but would I fork out so much money for something that just did not do what it said?
for me I was not interested in finding metallic items at depth, my sole concern was the capabilities for finding voids, i was searching for ancient tombs cut into the rock, these can be anything from 1.5meters wide and 2meters in length they are normally found at depths from 1.5meters to 8meters, I purchased the gems unit with the super sensor which was over £2500 just for the sensor, I must admit if you are to buy this equipment it helps to have someone to show you how to use it and to explain what the actual visualizer 3d graphics are showing you in the scanned area, unfortunately for me I had to learn the whole thing with no instruction, and talking about instructions, the manual is pretty useless and does not explain things clear enough, now on to using the gems unit, at first I thought the best thing to do would be to scan an area of 5m x 5m on top of a known tomb (void) and see what the scan would show, well my first attempt was very unclear as voids or cavities are suppose to show up blue unfortunately for me this was not the case as the scan was showing lines of blue here and there and nothing like the clear scan pics you see on the okm website, at first I thought id been scammed, but it was my inexperience of not knowing how to use the graphics program that was causing me to give up with the machine, unless you are prepared to fully understand and use all the features that help you get the correct scan ie interpolation feature which is a must on this unit if you want clear scans.
what is not so clear, maybe someone on this site can help on this is that all the scans that I have done show maximun depths of up to 5m now this is concerning as the unit is suppose to scan up to depths of 25m  I have looked at all of the example scans by okm and not one of them is over 5m why is this? makes you wonder, my experience of using the okm stuff is that it will find voids but you must be able to interpret the readings otherwise its not easy I will enclose a scan of what I was asked to do by a local villager the story goes that before the war the local village people placed all there gold in an iron bucket and buried it in the cellar of this Lady's old house then they all fled , hoping to come back some day to retrieve it unfortunately for the village people 35 years had passed and now with the war over the lady of the house came looking for the place where here house had been ,unfortunately the house had been demolished and now a road was built over it now me being a bit sceptical regarding this story thought ok point me to where you remember the house to be and ill scan that area , well to my surprise I got a shock! as the scan showed the exact spot of the bucket and the depth it shows clearly the hole with the bucket located inside in red check out the scan u

Hi gooch. Have you ever noticed that 100% of the scans with the OKM have at least one red  and one blue spot in them? The software is simply amplifying the points with highest and lowest magnetic response. By nature this magnetometer can not ever detect non-ferrous targets. Also by cassbiz's oun admission the depth readings are arbitrary and have no meaning. For the money you payed you get a 2-D picture of surface mineralization. If it's a bucket you want to locate I'd recommend White's TM-600 or TM-808 or Discovery TF-900  Good luck!

hi
you are correct, most scans do show a red spot, this is what I was trying to explain when I was saying that you really need to understand how to interpret, what the scan is showing you, what the company does not tell potential buyers, is that when you scan an area, they make it look like you don't have to do anything else, it should all be clear, unfortunately this is not the case as you must use interpolation at least 3 times otherwise you cant make out what the graphic is showing, what I must say is that I someone is to buy the okm units in hope of finding non ferrous items then id stay away as its capabilities are ferrous, for what i purchased the gems unit to find voids, holes in the rock, I am pleased with the outcome of doing just that but must admit, you must scan the area three times before digging as the scans are not always consistant.
I guess its far more easier to see voids (blue area) than for actual treasure, which  happen to be small in comparison.
I still have not received an answer to why all the scans from okm are showing no more than 5m, I may ask cassbiz.
by the way what experience have you had using there machines and if so what machine do you have?
thanks for replying
gooch

 GEMS Gradiometer
Cat# 1158-3080
$6,598.00
Demonstration by Appointment Only!
Please e-mail one of our GPR specialists to set up an appointment:

Wikipedia: A gradiometer measures the gradient (numerical rate of change) of a physical quantity, such as a magnetic field or gravity.[1]
   1. Axial gradiometer. Such a device consists of two magnetometers placed in series (i.e. one above the other). The result coming from the device is the difference in magnetic flux at that point in space (a.k.a. first spatial derivative).
   2. Planar gradiometer. Such a device consists of two magnetometers placed next to each other. The result coming from the device is the difference in flux between the two loops.

              OKM claims:
The Super Sensor is a specialized antenna which offers professional metal detection features. Small metallic targets such as gold nuggets, coins, rings, jewelry and other valuable metallic objects hidden under the ground can be located easily with this antenna. Also it is very suitable to detect larger objects like boxes, bunkers, pipes, chests, gold or silver bars and other metallic masses which are buried deep under the surface or which are difficult to locate with standard GPR antennas.
     
        Those claims are an insult to my intellect.

After this inputs about okm, I have to say bye my ilusion to buy a rober c from okm.Will be good wait for another realy good device.

I saw one time a 3D representation of a scanned metal box, the shape is distinct (sides are not hazy)and the color(red, like the flesh of a water melon) is also distinct.
I also saw the scan result of a void area, the color is black and the sides of the void are distinct and very clear.
The one posted above is an example of a scan result with indistinct shape and color, therefore, should be interpreted 'doubtful'...

I just found out that another friend of mine is selling his OKM rover for 10,000 euro. He will take a significant loss but I figure it's a tax he will have to pay for neglecting his physics in high school....

Hi H iiiQ. I have questioned about the technic used for rober c from okm and anybody say nothing about this. I supossed is pulse induction with software and magnetometer too, but realy what it is ? because they say has a range of 18 meteres underground. How is possible with a battery of 9 V in rober c 2003 ?.

OKM makes only magnetometers and dowsing rods. Both equally worthless in treasure hunting/archeology. The big boys prefer something with big coils and lots of power...
http://www.geo-western.com/em/em.htm

OKM makes only magnetometers and dowsing rods. Both equally worthless in treasure hunting/archeology. The big boys prefer something with big coils and lots of power...
http://www.geo-western.com/em/em.htm

??

You can't know very much about dowsing so? There have been many archaeological (and treasure) finds attributed to dowsing in the UK. I know very little about magnetometers but can say that your brush-off of dowsing is unwarranted. The facts are there in the UK if you care to research.

A week ago I found out that somebody I know went to Germany to buy a georadar. He has less than average inteligence ,so I sent him a very simple text message- "Never ever buy anything by OKM. Even if it's free do not take it". Guess what? He bought an OKM for 10,000 euro and he's coming back in a couple of days. What do you say to such extreme stupidity? I give up. Just like the lottery is a tax for people who don't know math, OKM is punishment for people who are extremely dumb and deserve to lose there money and who will ,for the rest of there miserable lives look at pictures of rust spots in the ground.

I have to admit I was enthralled and hypnotized by the OKM equipment line-up. While some of it no-doubt functions, I don't think that it works as ideally as they put it... and beyond that, the people over at geotech1.com already debunked the various lines of crap that OKM spews regarding Long Range Locators. Seriously, I would go down to the bank and get a loan and then just tour the US with an LRL if that wasn't some jerk's idea of making a steady stream of small fortunes off of stupid people. Seeing bluetooth links between some of the equipment I was initially entranced by it and misplaced my trust for a moment on some of the GPR like devices and almost considering getting said loan. But... after reading enough, studying the physics of how it would work and hearing feedback from "not so proud OKM equipment owners", I've got to say that you and anyone else should avoid this company like the plague. It's really funny that when you search for OKM on google, all the top ranked sites have favorable reviews or are just filler and it takes hard looking at geophysics forums and searches that include keywords besides "okm good or bad" to find information that has substance about these people. Take my advice, don't buy anything from them. If KellyCo can give someone a positive rep because they sell they're electronics equipment, please also see that KellyCo also sells frickin' pendulums which you'd have to be mentally challenged, drugged or slightly psychotic to believe will find you "treasure".
Plus, would you want a company building your underground detection equipment who basically state they've made equipment that is handheld that can locate and discriminate a gold or silver ring at several hundred feet? The physics of it are all that matters - it takes much more energy than you can put into a handheld detector to believe that a rechargable battery pack or packs will allow you to do anything that is claimed by these people. Burnt once by a lie shame on them, believe a liar's claim about one thing when you can scientifically prove they're a liar - shame on you for even thinking about buying their equipment. Let them prove it to you or hire someone who owns the equipment for a modest fee - at least then you'll see that they state their results are unreliable, not because the equipment doesn't work but because of environmental conditions, equipment malfunction or maybe that the magic pendulum inside the box (see h3 tec's Mormon-driven detector, kind of like the tablets that the crazy guy who invented (made up) Mormonism, the "profit", err "profit" seeing the gold tablets that didn't exist inside a hat...) was just wonky because of people like myself had sewed too many negative vibes into your aura and chakras.

...that is all.

TCS
TCS

 I wish I would have seen this thread sooner, because I have actually spent time in the offices of OKM in Germany. First of all, when you show up at their headquarters and are ushered inside the prefab ( read one step up from a double wide trailer ) offices, the display of treasure symbols and trinkets gives you the feeling that their marketing style is right out of the book used by the guys who traded some blankets and glass beads for the island of Manhatten. Don't misunderstand me, they've got a couple of engineers on board that are well educated and experienced in geophysics. They also are doing thier best to strap alot of bells and whistles on some pretty standard equipment and present the best case senario when describing its performance. When you start asking specific questions, they quite readily admit to the limitations of thier equipment. If on the other hand, you don't know the right questions to ask, they have no qualms about selling you a piece of equipment that should realistically be priced at about 15-25% of what they are charging for it.
 We didn't have any conversations about their LRL products simply because after our question and answer session, it was obvious from the looks on thier faces that they didn't have much that was going to hold up well in the light of our very pointed questions, and would be a whole lot more comfortable if we would just go away. They were not rude in any way, but it was not difficult to see the disappointment on their faces when they realized we were well prepared for the meeting.
Berk

Hello HiiiQ,
Tell to your friend  that he can sell his okm 4000 because  it is a bad equipment....
One week ago  a friend  go to visit me  with is okm 4000 , he buy it  3 month ago  and
we go to our test field..... 
The result is  very poor  this equipment 4000 do not detect a 200 liters tank  at 3 meters  but  pi  connected with a mini logger
detect  very well (see in my post the photo  of the logging)....
and i tell him try this target  a 10 liters tank  at 1,20 meters depth  ....... and nothing  it try two times ...making
a good grid  and the routine check up ....and you see  nothing in the display  after the download.....
My friend will return  at Kellyco Miami vendors the unit  to exchange with  a minelab detector  or  whatever equipment  working good
 with loosing  a good money!!!! sorry
It is my sincere testimony  but for the people  who did not believe me , buy it , test it and you will see
Alexis.

There are some inputs about okm, good an bads. If this it is not like the vendor say and then this is a fraud and like that must be looked by law.I do not know if there is a law departament about this kind of vendors.

Can we think same about runabout from accurate locators ? or this devices are so good like the vendor say ?.

at least accurate locators tell you that the runabout is a magnetometer

Yes  HiiQ, but they say you can detect from iron to gold in veins, you can see a video in wich the pinpointer is detecing an ore vein, and if this  it is a magnetometer too then the vendor is not telling the true, because magnetometers do not detect gold. I belive there are some people using this kind of devices about accurate locators, I do not why they say nothing about this devices and about okm are many negative inputs  or is about comercial strategies.?.