HOW ABOUT GUN SECTION

It's been quite some time that I was current, but extensive testing showed the Glock exceeded the reliability of the 1911 Colt, the Beretta 92f, and the Browning Hi-power.  By a long sea mile!

Not sure today today.
Hard to get straight answers from gun mags and such.

We've got those 'other guys' here I just can't agree with...
A wheel gun has a complicated mechanism and timing could be affected long before a glock would fail.

Yes, failure to feed is the downfall of an autoloader...

rmptr

Well count me in as well for the firearms section.  I have a concealed carry permit and I rarely leave home without my Sig Sauer P232. 

The forum motto could be "God, Guns 'n Relics!"

HERE is a webpage dedicated to torturing a Glock 21 until it failed. 10 years of testing including shooting it with a 22, freezing it, packing it with flour, sand, mud, ice, salt, dropping it from a plane, running over it with a truck, tying it to a car bumper and dragging it down the road...still shoots.

GL, I read the whole story.

Wow!

I agree with his philosophy and am glad he used HIS $500 pistol to test !

I'll see if I can find destruction/abuse tests for some of the other popular pistols out there...

Thanks for posting the link, It really is amazing.

Maybe some of the wheelgun crowd will read that link and compare results to their favorite. 

 
rmptr

I have a Glock .40 SW and an old Colt Combat Commander .45 ACP. I love the CCC, but the Glock is lighter to carry around.  The .40 is a good self defense round , fast and fairly heavy, but dang I love the feel of the old Colt as it double shucks a round up the spout. I don't think a gun section is necessary however unless it's limited to just the self defense type. Why?  Because anyone is free to ask a gun question in everything else and  there are dozens of firearms forums if you just want to talk guns.  Monty

That S&W is practically porn. Shame on you.

I too prefer steel but I can acknowledge the polymers place. They are tough and light.

I stand corrected it is indeed a Ruger and a very nice one at that.
THIS is a big boy Ruger:

LOL I'm kidding. I like yours. That grip is intense. I would like to have a .41 someday.
Do you have any single actions? I have a .357 Blackhawk. It's a 200th Anniversary of American Liberty issue.

I vote yes ...

It's a very nice revolver J-G.

Yes, those grips look very unusual...  I like 'em!

Still, did you read the link about Glock abuse that GL posted?

<I> just can't imagine a wheel gun would hold up.

Ha! Ha!  And I think it would be difficult talking you into trying with your revolver! 

I once had a Virginian Dragoon SA 44 mag hog leg with 10" barrel in stainless.
It was a kick to shoot, and I shot a pig with it once, on an island, for dinner.

All that kinda stuff passed along the way feeding kids and such...
Got big, strong, healthy kids, so I'm sure I did the right thing.

Today, everything is so expensive here in Kalifornia it's beyond belief!
And the new flock of laws... 

For some reason politicians just don't want us to be able to defend.

rmptr,
 Those vids convinced me to get a Glock.
Friend fired one underwater several times with no problem.
My new one is a block, OK, but I hit inside a paper plate at 35 yds instinct aim no prob.

Even so I love my "peacemaker" .45 Colt but it's just too big to CC.
Also ammo is impossible to find locally.
Have the carbine to match and that is sweet.
Guess I'll have to "roll my own" for ammo.

Grey

Morning, Grey.

Gosh, if yer not handloading you really should.  Have you done it before?
It's a lot of fun, relaxing, and you get far better ammo than you can buy at the store for your gun.
45 Colt is perfect for reloading!

I mostly loaded on the low side of medium power for target shooting, but always loaded up some boomers for fun!

It will set you back some to get started, but with the present cost of ammo, it's the only way to go.
You get your investment return pretty quickly, anymore.
The tools and components last forever, and pack away nicely if not being used.

If you're looking for CC pistols, Glock sure does have a lot to offer!
The G17 is pretty good sized, but the Compacts 19, 23, and 29 are 4" barrels, and the sub-compact 26, 27, and 36 are even smaller.

I just wasn't comfortable when I handled a sub-compact with only two fingers on the grip!
Then the fellow showing the gun brought out a magazine extension that got me one more finger on there for a much better feel and control.  Extension is only $10, and doesn't increase mag capacity.

G'day
rmptr

I carried a wheel gun for years in the line of duty. While it is probably the most reliable handgun, it is obsolete if you have to go up against a crazed lunatic with a 16 shot semiauto.  Assuming you miss six times, he or she is going to do you in while you are trying to reload.  Speedloaders you say?  Great at the range but not much good if you are under fire.  Especially if you have a hand injury.  The police learned that the time the FBI cornered two suspects with M1 carbines and all they had was six shot .38 Specials.  I think nearly all PDs carry semiautos now.  A few still remain faithful to the old wheelguns, but not many. For the average guy as a concealed handgun, the auto is easier to carry, but six shots is usually plenty in a one on one situation.  So, what I am saying I guess is take your choice, which ever you feel most secure with. Monty

I think it was 1986 in Miami or Orlando when FBI ran into a problem with the stopping power of the 9mm and asked that a more powerful autoloader be built.  That brought the 10mm.
I think 10 agents were involved in a stop of two robbery suspects.  One of them had Ranger training and they were well armed. All but one agent was shot, both suspects and two agents died.
It was a very bad situation and FBI did not want it to happen again.
Now the 357 Sig is popular because the 10mm has too much recoil.

I had just stumbled across the wikipedia page on that event...  What a nightmare!
It was actually worse than the one just a couple years ago here in CA where a couple guys robbed a bank wearing home made armor and the local PD couldn't hardly do anything with them.
Well, it took about an hour to stop them, but it was all filmed live on TV from ElMundo news helicopter.
Little bullets are not best!

I think it was 1986 in Miami or Orlando when FBI ran into a problem with the stopping power of the 9mm and asked that a more powerful autoloader be built.  That brought the 10mm.
I think 10 agents were involved in a stop of two robbery suspects.  One of them had Ranger training and they were well armed. All but one agent was shot, both suspects and two agents died.
It was a very bad situation and FBI did not want it to happen again.
Now the 357 Sig is popular because the 10mm has too much recoil.

I had just stumbled across the wikipedia page on that event...  What a nightmare!
It was actually worse than the one just a couple years ago here in CA where a couple guys robbed a bank wearing home made armor and the local PD couldn't hardly do anything with them.
Well, it took about an hour to stop them, but it was all filmed live on TV from ElMundo news helicopter.
Little bullets are not best!

Yep it was Miami, here's a breakdown of the weapons involved.

Info courtesy of   http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs7.htm

Matix: S&W M3000 12 gauge shotgun (1 round #6 shot fired).
Platt: Ruger Mini-14 .223 Remington carbine (at least 42 rounds fired),
S&W M586 .357 Magnum revolver (3 rounds fired),

Dan Wesson .357 Magnum revolver (3 rounds fired).
 

FBI:

McNeill: S&W M19-3 .357 Magnum revolver, 2-inch barrel (6 rounds .38 Special +P fired).
Mireles: Remington M870 12 gauge shotgun (5 rounds 2 3/4 inch 00 buckshot fired),
.357 Magnum revolver (make & model unknown), (6 rounds .38 Special +P fired).
 
Grogan: S&W M459 9mm automatic pistol (9 rounds fired).
Dove: S&W M459 9mm automatic pistol (20 rounds fired).
Risner: S&W M459 9mm automatic pistol (13-14 rounds fired?),
S&W (model unknown) .38 Special revolver (1 round .38 Special +P fired).
 
Orrantia: S&W (model unknown) .357 Magnum revolver, 4 inch barrel (12 rounds .38 Special +P fired).
Hanlon: S&W (model unknown) .38 Special revolver, 2-inch barrel (5 rounds .38 Special +P fired).
Manauzzi: Apparently lost possession of his handgun during the vehicle collision and was unable to locate and recover it during the gunfight (0 rounds fired).







I remember watching the TV movie about it. Michael Gross(best known as the father on Family Ties) and David Soul (Starsky and Hutch) played the bad guys. The shootout was hard to watch. I can't imagine having to go through something like that. 

A follow up to my last post.

Info courtesy of:  http://www.guitarsalon.biz/10mm/#history

The spring of 1986 saw the gunfight in Miami, where several FBI agents were killed, and after the analysis was complete, the fact that one of the robbers sustained a potentially lethal hit early in the shootout came to light. The ammunition was considered a failure, and a major fault in the events as they took place.

In 1990 after exhaustive testing, The FBI adopted the S&W 1076. A large frame, stainless steel semi-automatic, that was designed similar to a SIG, with a frame mounted decocker. The ammo, (Federal XM1001 180gr@924 fps) was considered to have ALL of the best defensive characteristics, which met very vigorous requirements to defeat auto steel, glass, wood, drywall, AND still have enough energy to penetrate 12" of ballistic gelatin.

Also the down powered ammo served as a starting point where it easily equalled the .45 in penetration on obstacles, if the need arose, the thought was you could STILL juice up the ammo comfortably.

I followed the 10mm from the get go, as I was interested in a hunting/IPSC/carry gun. My first 10mm is LONG gone. ALL the BEST attributes of the 10 are still there, and the drawbacks are minimal, to my way of thinking. The main one being the limited number of suitable production guns available.

Soon after the field agents started using the 10mm, complaints from agents about recoil and alleged breakage began to surface, and the stage was set for the end of the cartridge. I owned a 10mm and was surprised at how many people and gunwriters were jumping up and down about what a mistake the caliber is to buy and sell.

S&W however had begun experimenting with a 40 caliber "short" version of the 10mm, and they found that they could easily duplicate the 10mm "FED LITE" ballistics, AND deliver it in a 11+1 round gun, with the SAME circumference grip as a 9 round 10mm. This was a leap toward the end of the 10 millimeter cartridge.

Willie D -
 I have to wonder, if you are carrying a .357 Dan Wesson (and I have one), why in the world would you undermine it with .38 ammo?
Especially when your life depends on it.
I do often shoot the .38 as they are cheaper and a bit less kick. But at work, I would want the real thing.

Have seen a lot of LEOs carrying the 10 but that is .394" and I was a bit leery of them.
I went for the Glock G-30SF in .45 cal as I think that has the best stopping power I can shoot comfortably.
rmptr - with a G-21 mag. it adds 3 more rounds and about an inch to the grip.
I know wheel guns are dependable. They can sit in a side drawer for many years and work first time (and if not, another trigger pull brings another try). I don't think I can speed load them like I can with a magazine. And as stated, more ammo in the mag.
I don't know why 5 rds of 00 buck didn't stop most anything, perhaps misses.

Some years ago I started into Cowboy Action shooting and got 1 Colt .45 and a lever action .45 long gun.
RCBS multi stage loader, dies, powder, primers, etc.
Just never set it up. Never did much with the Cowboy stuff as I didn't have the period shotgun.
Went to a bunch of S.A.S.S. events and all the clothes and stuff I couldn't afford kinda lost interest.

Now price and availability of ammo makes me want to at least start reloading.
Have to make some bullet molds too as lead weights are still cheap.
Hope powder and primers don't go on the endangered list...

Grey

You should all check out this thread

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,218604.0/topicseen.html

Here's what I carry detecting, useless little thing unless they get on top of you. I normally keep an eye on my surroundings but you never know
J-G

Here's my Bauer.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/rQVXDtU3P4I" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/rQVXDtU3P4I</a>

Lots of folks would like it.

How about it?

Think it would work

all have a good un.....................
SHERMANVILLE

I am in. I look forward to my right to bear arms hopefully until I can't hold one. Not to mention the amazing stockpile of information that these fine gentlemen have to offer!  I certainly hope that this section of the forums is established, if nothing else than for the exchange of knowledge for knowledge sake!

I agree.

Perhaps all we need here is a Charter Member to moderate his own Personal Page focused on the particular area of interest.

Marc has never shown himself to be adverse to improvement upon Tnet.

 

Oh c'mon...

JG, Send a PM to Jeff of PA and ask what he can do.  Marc is probably just stuck in a phone booth or something.
Or ask the Timberwolf what procedure is for starting up a personal page.

 

Maybe we need more individual posts about firearms???  Hmmmm. 

YaY!

I'll see if I can work up some nice presentations.

 
rmptr

Maybe we need more individual posts about firearms???  Hmmmm. 

Well,I can tell you why I went to the 45-70,instead of another 30-06......

You have my vote

Maybe we need more individual posts about firearms???  Hmmmm. 

Well,I can tell you why I went to the 45-70,instead of another 30-06......

WoW!

I'd sure like to hear about that!

I'd really like to hear why you have chosen a 45-70 over a 30.06.

Will you come over to J-G personal Page and tell us your story?

Thanks
rmptr

Maybe we need more individual posts about firearms???  Hmmmm. 

Well,I can tell you why I went to the 45-70,instead of another 30-06......

WoW!

I'd sure like to hear about that!

I'd really like to hear why you have chosen a 45-70 over a 30.06.

Will you come over to J-G personal Page and tell us your story?

Thanks
rmptr

I sure did. 
Thanks.

  Guns?? like those things that H.R. 45 talks about that they want us to register??
   If they catch us with one that is not registered we go away for five years as a guest of the state

Here is my vote

x2
So can we have that new section ??
 

Vodka,

Just-Geese is moderating over in the personal pages.

  Guns?? like those things that H.R. 45 talks about that they want us to register??
   If they catch us with one that is not registered we go away for five years as a guest of the state

I don't live in that state.
I "Had guns but all were lost in a boating accident".
Anyway, Orygun does not require registration.
Some firearms are from dead relatives or friends. Old things like .22 or .45 Colt.
No paper trail.
I have been inspected by many agencies , local, state, county, and FBI.
I am a certified  "Good Guy" .
You live in a bad state.
Randy

 the H.R 45 i made reference to was on the federal level pard it has not passed YET!!@

That's even worse...

Thanks rmptr for reminding me about J-G area. I had forgotten.
And that doesn't come up on my "replies" list as it is private.

Grey

Here's another vote, Sherm

that would be an excellent section to have .

I HAVE BEEN Waiting PATIENTLY,  what's up?

K,  my favorite pistol is a S&W .357, Highway patrol model with 4" barrel and Keith long range front sight.  I bought the first one in eastern Texas , Kingsville, in 52 while I was in the Border Patrol.

It had served me very well until my son lost it.  It had traveled throughout the Pacific basin on exploration trips, but it's most extensive use, after the B P days, was in north Western Mexico while looking for lost Jesuit mines.     That  Barranca  country is similar to the grand caynon and is effectively lawless even today.

After almost 300,000 full power rnds, it still met factory specs.  A tribute to S&W  workmanship and quality. I used it to beat the Mexican national pistol champion in 55 at Colima.

Don Jose de La Mancha

Do we need a rifle and pistol section on the boards?  Lot of post on rifles, pistols, and personal defense
weapons.
all have a good un...........
SHERMANVILLE

Good idea. I agree.........

Trish votes YES!!!

I bet Marc will make it happen if you ask him Sherman....

All right !  Girls with guns...  Almost my personal favorite !

 


 
rmptr

Trish votes YES!!!

I bet Marc will make it happen if you ask him Sherman....

Sherman is long gone, Trish.   

rmptr - That looks like the militant arm of Prohibition! Scary.

Grey

 I think we have all dug enough targets to ask for this section. I think the true question is ,,How does it fit in with T-Net. It might be risky for them with people posting weapons they should not have (no FFL and rat-tat-tat). If they kept it to treasure then it would have to fall under the antique gun laws.

 That would still be pretty cool and probably one of the best go to places for information on antique firearms on the net.
 I beleive most people carry concealed (in Tennessee anyways) and often see members showing off a firearm.

Is this topic aleady done? I see last post in Feb??

Trish votes YES!!!

I bet Marc will make it happen if you ask him Sherman....

Sherman is long gone, Trish.   

I don't understand, Sherman is a very knowledgeable guy. If something doesn't work one way.
Then, you try another way. Just don't stop trying.

I support having a gun forum.

Bob

I feel more comfortable out prospecting with this by my side.

S&W Model 66, 357 magnum


GG~

S&W  eh?   Part of the way,   I go for a hi way patrol Model 28 , 4" barrel, keith long range front sights, and handloads of 14.5 grains of 2400 pushing 156-8 Keith semi-wadcutters.   Carried one for years in different parts of the world exploring and looking for lost Jesuit mines.  Never failed once, fortunately.

Don Jose de La Mancha

Nice GoodGuy.

Have a Dan Wesson like that in the blue.

2 and 4" tubes.

They go to 12" I think. Wish I had the set.

Grey

 I vote yes I prefer the Sig 229 40 cal myself. I can put 13 rnds in a six inch circle as fast as I can pull the trigger. I find this gun to be very controlable and easy to keep on target. Bighead

["ESSENTIAL"]

One thing that I consider as "ESSENTIAL"   
AND!
I always carry along when I am in the field, is, as you can see, is a side arm
The one shown is a stub nose, Charter Arms, .44 Mag
It's lite weight, 19 oz
But!
It packs a BIG! Punch
I load it with a 240 gr JHP @ 1200 fps     

Here's 11 more reasons to have a gun forum:

Salvor mi buddy: Is that a suppressed 1911 on the right?

Don Jose de La Mancha

Salvor mi buddy: Is that a suppressed 1911 on the right?

Don Jose de La Mancha

Springfield armory S.A.S.S.?

I have a .45 SA Colt revolver that I love.
Can hit a golf ball at 25 yds. with 7" bbl.
Hard to find ammo anymore.
Grey

Salvor mi buddy: Is that a suppressed 1911 on the right?

Don Jose de La Mancha

Springfield armory S.A.S.S.?

Yes that is a Springfield SASS.

Salvor mi buddy: Is that a suppressed 1911 on the right?

Don Jose de La Mancha

Springfield armory S.A.S.S.?

Yes that is a Springfield SASS.

Click down here.
http://home.earthlink.net/~murph864/rev/sass.html

I sure am out of times being down here in Mexico, sigh

However, still a dedicated wheel gunner.

Don Jose de La Mancha 

What's this I hear about "Coin Shooting" ?

Is that like the old Billy the Kid story about loading dimes in a shotgun?

Grey

I have a .45 SA Colt revolver that I love.
Can hit a golf ball at 25 yds. with 7" bbl.
Hard to find ammo anymore.
Grey

If you can hit a golf ball at 25 yds. with 7" bbl.
What do you need ammo for?   

GG~

Personally, I couldn't give a rat's behind with what guns you guys own and collect. I think joining a gun forum would take care of that.
BUT, I would love to have a section all about guns and gun parts THAT WERE FOUND BY METAL DETECTING or some other means. I don't care to see people's antiques or coin collection they bought or inherited BUT I would love to see what they dug up.
The guns posted here on this thread bore me to death, EXCEPT the ones that were dug up.
It would be great to see Lock plates, side decorations, escutcheon pieces, finials, springs, etc. and of course a complete gun that were dug up. I have a lot of what I just listed and think that a gun section could benefit others who have dug up these items and need more info or an I.D.
If you have a non-dug collection of guns, then post it in the collections section.
I 100% agree that we should have a gun section pertaining to WHAT WE DUG UP. I do not want to see another political forum about open carry, gun owners rights, and what guns you like to fire off, etc. Over the years, those issues already clogged up a lot of this forum's space and has NOTHING to do with treasure hunting.
If the new gun section pertains to what we dug up, then you guys have my vote.
Dave.

Over the years, those issues already clogged up a lot of this forum's space and has NOTHING to do with treasure hunting.
If the new gun section pertains to what we dug up, then you guys have my vote.
Dave.

So it's only treasure when it is found underground?  Otherwise it's just stuff?

My gun collection is treasure to me, and when I find a deal on a firearm, I get the same feeling I get when I find a coin or an artifact.  Doesn't matter if it is under dirt , in the floor joists of an abandoned house I help tear down(Winchester lever action 30-30), or on a table at a gun show, it's treasure if I want it to be.

If the new gun section pertains to what we dug up, then you guys have my vote.
Dave.

Kinda like the PETS section, right?

 

   Good One 

 if only for info and NO politics

so true but since we are all grown and most of us are americans i thought we could bite the bullet so to speak.since most of us here have a reasonable love of history and most of us stand up for the 2nd amendment ,that we could put political veiws aside since we do have A SECTION FOR THATand all of us have been smacked in the head enough since it like PREACHING TO THE CHOIR over and over and just discuss the best new ammo ,new targets, the best sale on items in our areas,new style of hunting long johns, get my drift. if some yo-yo comes on here blathering i think we can buzz him/her off.lets face it some of us on here are not young and besides having a side arm for defense i would like to hear ideas for personal and home defense since some of you guys are retired military and or police. thanks for letting me get long winded. goldie

I will defend this country with every once of energy and blood i have in my body !  and i am not an arrogant or dismissive individual. i have never duck hunted. how is a person to get well aquainted with different types of firearms except on the range  or hunting. i sure the local police dept wouldn't take kindly if i acted like an idiot and use neighbor hood pets as targets .you will never hear or read anything about me discussing these topics on here again. the majority of the people i read or hear spouting off i believe are trying to convince themselves or someone else they are patriotic . a true patriot knows when to shut up and listen and when to take action.

I sure am out of times being down here in Mexico, sigh

However, still a dedicated wheel gunner.

Don Jose de La Mancha 

Don Jose, What caliber wheel gun you got there. You got a picture of that puppy?

Merry Christmas  Quest:  .357,   S&W (Naturally)   Highway Patrol model, with a 4" barrel and a Keith long range front sight.  In Mexico, a quasi, semi legal..25 Titan.  sigh.  Of course with Keith semi wadcutters at about 1450 fps from 2400 powder.

Don Jose de La Mancha

Here is one of my favorites, every shot one?

I have trained 1000's of service members on that and other foreign weps prior to their overseas deployments,  very accurate and highly reliable.

FWIW some were imported for the US market w/ .380 barrels,  I suggest sticking w/ the 9x18 due to it's solid track record w/ regards to reliability.

Non import marked real Russian military MAKs bring big $$.

Is there a firearms section yet?  I love the Makarov, super accurate and reliable. 

I didn't know that a CZ97 was so much bigger than a 1911...

7.62x25 =9mm+p 

Nice to see this topic come back.

Local Bi-Mart store got tired of having only empty shelves where ammo used to be and put reloading gear there.
Anyone else see ammo back on the shelves?

Grey

Lookit! Imma geddit! Soooo nice! Sig Sauer P238  .380acp

I should add that, If a forum like that was made for firearms, it would attract more people to the site that could be a real asset to the rest of us that need things identified that we find, wheather we find relics, bullets & more! Just my opinion

I visit a lot of firearms sites so if we had some boards here many would also come to raise the count for the sponsors.

Bring it on.  Id stop by from time to time.  I come to this forum to learn and find out  more about metal detecting but guns are a big part of my life. 

I am an unabashed, unrepentent,  gun lover, sides they have saved my life a few times, both directly and indirectly..

Viva wheel pistols,. especially S&W,  not that I am biased or anything  snicker.

Don Jose de La Mancha

Firearms section? DO IT!
My sister is a Clinton loving/Gun hateing liberal. When my son (Marine Recon) came through home between assignments (3 of which were in Iraq), my sister ask him "How's your little Marine trigger finger?" He says "Aunti, if it wasn't for Marine trigger fingers, you would be speaking Jap." Siemper Fi

["Aunti, if it wasn't for Marine trigger fingers, you would be speaking Jap."]

Firearms section? DO IT!
My sister is a Clinton loving/Gun hateing liberal. When my son came through home between assignments (3 of which were in Iraq), my sister ask him "How's your little Marine trigger finger?" He says "Aunti, if it wasn't for Marine trigger fingers, you would be speaking Jap." Siemper Fi

 

Tell your son that we (from my home) thank him for his service.

I now own a Taurus PT1911.
If anyone has an reservations about them because they are Taurus forget it. Mine is an excellent firearm and feels and shoots better than my Springfield. It came loaded with enough goodies to push a Colt into the $1300+ range and a Kimber well over a grand. Seriously nice pistol and it comes with 8rd mags. Hopefully they will make them in Commander size so I can get one of them as well.

Don Jose de la Mancha - how do you feel about the Dan Wesson revolvers ?

Grey