Suwannee/Cross City Florida Casche

Anyone investigating the story of the 2 Bahama Traders hung by Andrew Jackson in 1818?
Does anyone have proof that they really had kegs of gold coins buried?
Trying to find out if this is true or lore!

Any help would be appreciated

Okay I admit to being an old cynic.  I think if they really had two kegs of gold coins, they could have bought their freedom.

Chip V.

Well there's always that.

Theres always what? Supposedly they pleaded right before being executed and offered these kegs up, that is how the information or supposed info is known. Who knows if they had these for real, or said where they actually were buried or what the reason was that they could not buy their way out of their predicament.

Good luck in your search.  I hope you find the treasure and come gloat on TN when you do. 

This was going to be just a TAG post, but just want to reply to this,

Chip V wrote

I think if they really had two kegs of gold coins, they could have bought their freedom.

We are talking about Andrew "By-God" Jackson here amigo, don't you have doubts that he could be bribed, regardless of how much?  I sure cannot see Andy Jackson agreeing to let condemned men go free for some money.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

[Two Indian traders Arbuthnot Scotchman and Ambrister an Englishman were taken prisoners being found among the Indians and Spaniards tried by a court martial and executed by order of general Jackson]

I found a bit of info that confirms the incident,

"
friendly Creeks pursued Florida destroying towns killing and capturing many Indians and run a way negroes He also took possession of the Spanish fortresses of St Marks Pensacola and the Barancas during a period of peace between Spain and the United States Two Indian traders Arbuthnot Scotchman and Ambrister an Englishman were taken prisoners being found among the Indians and Spaniards tried by a court martial and executed by order of general Jackson Two Indian chiefs who were captured were also put to death by iv s order and sundry other cruel and high handed acts committed to which the attention of congress was called at the session of 181S 19 "
 <http://books.google.com/books?id=_W...0,820,165&source=bookclip">
The Life and Speeches of the Hon. Henry Clay  By Henry Clay,  Daniel Mallory>

Good luck and good hunting amigos, will see what else I can find on this. 
Oroblanco

Andrew Jackson did not walk on water and had many flaws, as we all do. He did good and he did very evil. He was crooked and egotistical to the max... What he did to my Cherokee Ancestors will never be forgotten.

so whats your point, what does it have to do with this post?

[Memoirs of General Andrew Jackson]

HOLA amigos,

I think you will find this short book VERY interesting
http://books.google.com/books?id=eE...s_brr=1&as_pt=ALLTYPES#PPA33,M1
<Memoirs of General Andrew Jackson Together with the Letter of Mr. Secretary Adams, in Vindication of the Execution of Arbuthnot & Ambrister, and the Other Public Acts of Gen. Jackson, in Florida By John Quincy Adams>

I started trying to copy the relevant material but it is some 40 pages, so it is easier to just give you the linkee. 

Good luck and good hunting amigos I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

[the actual records of the Court Martial of Alexander Arbuthnot and Richard Armbrister]

I found some more interesting info on this - the actual records of the Court Martial of Alexander Arbuthnot and Richard Armbrister.  Included in the trial records are some letters of both Arbuthnot and Armbrister, which you may find helpful.

"2 When he heard of Jackson's advance he had written to his son who was his agent at Boleck's village to carry the goods across the river Through the letter the Indians got warning in time to cross the river and effect their escape His letter was not open to censure Can traders be executed if their information not transmitted through the lines frustrate military purposes Sumner 59 8 This testimony probably perjured 3 Schouler 71"
 <http://books.google.com/books?id=6O...47,1046,680,153&source=bookclip>American State Trials A Collection of the Important and Interesting Criminal Trials which Have Taken Place in the United States from the Beginning of Our Government to the Present Day By John Davison Lawson,  Robert Lorenzo Howard>

"Charge II Acting as a spy and aiding abetting and comforting the enemy supplying them with the means of war Specification 1st In writing a letter from the fort of St Mark dated second of April 1818 to his son John at Suwany marked A detailing the advance of the army under General Jackson stating their force probable movements and intentions to be communicated to Bowlegs the Chief of the Suwany towns for his government Specification 2nd In writing the letters marked B without date and C with enclosures twenty seventh January 1818 and D called A Note of Indian Talks and E without date applying to the British Government through Governor Cameron for munitions of war and assistance for our enemies making false representations and also applying to Mr Bagot British ambassador for his interference with a statement on the back of one of the letters of munitions of war for the enemy Exciting Indians and  "
<http://books.google.com/books?id=6O...202,221,684,327&source=bookclip>American State Trials A Collection of the Important and Interesting Criminal Trials which Have Taken Place in the United States from the Beginning of Our Government to the Present Day By John Davison Lawson,  Robert Lorenzo Howard>

"From A Arbuthnot to his Son John Arbuthnot dated Fort St Mark second April 1818 9 o clock in the morning Dear Son As I am ill able to write a long letter it is necessary to be brief Before my arrival here the commandant had received an express from the Governor of Pensacola informing him of a large embarkation of troops etc under the immediate command of General Jackson and the boat that brought the dispatch reckoned eighteen sail of vessels off Appalacgicola By a deserter that was brought here by the Indians the commandant "
<http://books.google.com/books?id=6O...33,1129,704,214&source=bookclip>American State Trials A Collection of the Important and Interesting Criminal Trials which Have Taken Place in the United States from the Beginning of Our Government to the Present Day By John Davison Lawson,  Robert Lorenzo Howard>

"..was informed that three thousand men under the orders of General Jackson one thousand foot and one thousand six hundred horse under General Gaines five hundred under another General were at Prospect Bluff where they are rebuilding the hurnt fort that one thousand Indians of different nations were at Spanish Bluff building another fort under the direction of American officers that so soon as these forts were built they intended to march They have commenced Yesterday morning advice was received that they had appeared near and taken two of the sons of M Queen and an Indian Late in the afternoon three schooners came to anchor at the mouth of the river and this morning the American flag is seen flying on the largest I am blockaded here no Indian will come with me and I am now suffering from the fatigue of coming here alone The main drift of the Americans is to destroy the black population of Suwany Tell my friend Bowlegs that it is throwing away his people to attempt to resist such a powerful force as will be down on Sahwahnee and as the troops advance by land so will the vessels by sea Endeavor to get all the goods over the river in a place of security as also the skins of all sorts the corn must be left to its fate So soon as the Sahwahnee is destroyed I expect the Americans will be satisfied and retire this is only my opinion but I think it is conformable to the demand made by General Gaines to King Hachy some months since in fact do all you can to save all you can save the books particularly It is probable the commandant will receive some communication from the vessels today when he will know more what are their motives in coming off the fort I think it is only to shut up the passage to the Indians Twenty canoes went down yesterday and were forced to return The road between this and Miekasucky is said to be stopped Hillisajo and Himathlo Mico were here last night to hear what vessels they will remove all their cattle and effects across St Mark's river this morning and perhaps wait near thereto for the event I have brief I of "
<http://books.google.com/books?id=6O...214,228,682,712&source=bookclip>American State Trials A Collection of the Important and Interesting Criminal Trials which Have Taken Place in the United States from the Beginning of Our Government to the Present Day By John Davison Lawson,  Robert Lorenzo Howard>

"I have been as brief as I can to give you the substance of what appear facts that cannot be doubted to enter into details in the present moment is useless If the schooner is returned get all the goods on board of her and let her start off for Mounater Creek the bottom of Cedar key Bay You will there only have the skins hide away But no delay must take place as the vessels will no follow the land army and perhaps even now some have gone I pray your strictest attention for the more that is saved be eventually more to your interest Let the bearer have as calico as will make him two shirts for his trouble he has to deliver this in three but I give him four days I am yours affectionately A Arbuthnot B "
<http://books.google.com/books?id=6O...218,943,692,306&source=bookclip>American State Trials A Collection of the Important and Interesting Criminal Trials which Have Taken Place in the United States from the Beginning of Our Government to the Present Day By John Davison Lawson,  Robert Lorenzo Howard>

We know from the trial records that the goods of Arbuthnot did not get put on his schooner, but were hauled across the river from the Seminole village where his store was located and hidden there - the village on Suwany river (Swannee?) being on the EAST side of the river, and "about 100 miles" from St. Marks.  Besides the money (gold in kegs) they also hid nine or ten kegs of gunpowder, and ten bars of lead - may be guns, knives etc also.  I am convinced this "story" is TRUE and you have a fair chance of finding it - we know that Arbuthnot and Armbrister certainly never were able to recover the money or weaponry.  The two trials are very interesting reading, and are online (free) at:

http://books.google.com/books?id=6O...=20&as_brr=1&as_pt=ALLTYPES<Court martial trial records of Alexander Arbuthnot and Richard Armbrister, British "traders" hanged and shot by Gen. Andrew Jackson>


Good luck and good hunting amigos  I hope you find the treasures that you seek - got to hit the hay so signing off,
Oroblanco

Great research Oro. Now if I could just find out where the Seminole Indian village was it would greatly narrow down the search. I think it was near Old Town, FL.

Hey Scuba, I've had all this info for a long time, just ask if your interested. I have been there many times and am going back soon. Old town is not where it used to be, Suwanee/old town are now different. I have 2 places that I am searching, they are both supppose to be their plantation. I just don't know which is the correct one! If you want to join me for an adventure in the swamps your welcome, be prepared. We could find this sooner than later.

Is this talking about the old spanish fort in St.marks,Florida?

Yes St. Marks they went to the fort and Arbuthnot was captured there.

Hmmmm.I go "around" there EVERY chance I get.....While nothing to do with your story, Im on a mission myself.But so far its not been very good at all.. ..... ..........

I think I know where the outpost was located. Here is a picture of it.

Que?

I do see 2 post and one sign, since they are outside I guess you could consider this an out post.

The way the river runs West to East then turns up North we need to figure out which side the Trading post was on first. It sounds like east side which would be Southeast.

Thanks Relicdude! I am not sure as what to get out of that though, I saw the mention of the trading post in Palatka. I am definately going to keep at it until I find it or find it does not exist. Do you or anyone here know if the author of the treasure atlas series is alive. Tom Terry or something like that, his volume 3 which covered florida started this, that is where the mentioning of the buried kegs of coins came from. I would like to know if the author was known for exaggerations or if the information he wrote about came from a true source. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. Without knowing what Arbuthnot and /or what Arbister said will not help us, they could have said Tampa area, next to a tree not a stream etc. I just would like to narrow the search area by as much as I can.

Jamie

Definately not Palatka, that is more or less SW Jacksonville, other coast.

the Treasure atlas by Thomas P Terry   volume 3

who knows of this guy? is he a reliable source?

very interesting, I would like to see more of this documentation. Most of what is known is from Tampa to Suwannee and their executions at ST. Marks.
Good info Relicdude.

Do you think anything is at Palatka or was it more of a stopping point before going to the west coast of FL?

I still believe My 2 guys were just passing through this area on to bigger and better trading post along the Gulf.

Definitely not Palatka. Wrong river. Arbuthnot and Armbrister had their trading post on the Suwannee river. Rollieville is now called East Palatka.

There are  many spots on the Suwanee just east of Old Town going up towards White Springs that is so shallow and narrow that the only boats that go through there today are canoes and kayaks. Alot  of the old barges and sternwheellers are in the muck near Old Town. Just east of the Rt. 19 bridge at the Suwanee river you could see the remnants of one of these boats. Also memory tellls me that I have seen many divers in tantem going with the current collecting artifacts of the bottom in this area. Food for thought.

This was going to be just a TAG post, but just want to reply to this,

Chip V wrote

I think if they really had two kegs of gold coins, they could have bought their freedom.

We are talking about Andrew "By-God" Jackson here amigo, don't you have doubts that he could be bribed, regardless of how much?  I sure cannot see Andy Jackson agreeing to let condemned men go free for some money.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

Yep, good ole Andy Jackson. The same Andy that won the battle of New Orleans only because Jean Lafitte gave him the necessary help then he sold the pirates out (it;s known that when Lafitte took off, he had to leave a great deal behind. Jackson had everything captured impounded and the trail goes cold from there. What happened to it?). The same Andy that handed out death sentences like they were water. The same Andy that used dogs to hunt down the Seminoles then fed them to those dog's if they were refused to tell him where their villages were (it's worthy to note here that there is not one instance where one of the captives gave up their people). Last but not least, it was the same Andy Jackson that was looked into for many shady land deals that made him very wealthy. It was his political clout that kept him from prison or worse and of course the fact that he knew where a lot of skeletons were buried in Washington.

Jackson was just one of many that have been given hero status when they were little more then thugs with their own personal agendas. Our history is full of them. It gets a bit disgusting really when you start digging into it.

I think I'd better stop now as I really don't want to get off the topic but yes, I think Jackson could have been bought and was on many occasions.

Deepsix

Jackson was a politician before his time, if he were around nowadays he would be amazed and probably feel left out. These thugs today are even more coniving. AS far as Oldtown goes and artifact divers, could you get into any more detail on those areas?

Strange, when I gave my negative opinion of Andy Jackson, Sabre, you kinda question why. Now you respond in a positive way.

Was it or is it because of my strong Conservative viewpoint that you question the reason for my post? Not upset or in disagreement with you, just curious.

know this andrew jackson carried a scar on his face and hand  inflicted by a british officer during the american war of independance -- as a 13 year old young man working with the american troops jackson was caught  a  british officer told jackson to shine his boots --when jackson refused the officer stuck him with his sword scarring him badly on the face and arm for life -- for this  jackson hated the british with a real and very deep hatred also anyone who were their allies as well he hated with a very  real hatred that mere money could not buy your way out of. --   what jackson later on did to his loyal indian troops  however--was one of the foulest deeds ever done by an america president ---the supreme court actually had  issued a order to allow the cherokee to stay put -- but jackson ignored the law and did as he pleased.

jackson would rather hang 2 british agent trouble makers than have a boat load of gold.--count on it.

Graycloud, I reponded the way I did not caring about politics either way, I am a conservative as well. You came out of nowhere with your post, if you look, it was your first post on this subject and you offered no information on my 2 subjects or the area in question. I actually was answering to the previous 2 post in one answer, commenting on Jackson and asking the other guy more about Oldtown and the divers in the river.
You did make me aware however to how evil Jackson was and more and more that I re-read some of my history books I now look at the Jackson era with a more clear view. This story I am investigating has taught me more about the real Andrew Jackson than we were ever taught in school. Any additional information you may have on Jackson in Florida in the early 1800's would always be appreciated though!

Kind Regards,

Sabre15

Sabre, When going north on Rt19 you go into Fanning Springs and cross the river. If you look to your right, up the river about 3 or 4 hundred yards on the left hand side of the river, being the north side there is an old wooden boat fairly close to the bank. When the river is low you can see the spars or beams. That was 5 yrs. ago. If you go into Old Town and go north on Rt 349 for 2 or 3 miles there was or is a campgound that is right next to a propane company. I knew both of these families personally. The campground, if still there, sits on the river. Divers would camp there and put in their boats and float down the river.  1 guy would operate the boat and the diver would follow it with a lifeline. Also about 15 years ago while staying at the campground there were several guys that contracted to look for treasure at this campground. I saw this for myself. Not sure what equipment they used, probably 2 box system. I know they dug at least 2 large holes down close to the river with a backhoe. I just thought of this as I was writing this message. I am sure this is the treasure that you are looking for. If you go to Stephen Foster state park at White Springs the water is way to shallow to put any size boat past there. I have been up that way by boat but can,t recall the depth. I have talked to several people and they have relayed the same info as far as the paddlewheelersband the barges. The guy that owns the propane co. is Frank Anderson. his family has lived their for years. PM for more info.

Arbuthnot JR. was sent off to Pensacola and never heard from again as far as history writes. If someone could trace his routes back to England possibly we may find out what he retired to. I would like to think this treasure is still out there unless someone else found it and never came forward. The treasure that gametalman writes about is interesting, possibly a pirate cache so close to the river. I would like to know more.

The trading post was on the Suwannee, Mcanopy is far too inland unless there was another back then. That paragraph does not give any clue to where it is unless we know exactly where Bowlegs town was.

You are clearly mistaken or are trying to lead this discussion group in the wrong direction. Every bit of history shows that Arbuthnot and Ambrister worked out of the Suwannee area after leaving Tampa, they may have spent time in the past in the Palatka area but this cache and other merchandise are near the Suwanee/California Swamp area. Look at the geography of Mcanopy and tell me why a trader whom owns his own shooner would work that far inland. He maybe have traded with Indians from the Mcanopy area, but his store was on the Suwannee close to his schooner. Suwannee area is common knowledge of being Bowlegs camp area.

Interesting, especially living here in Ocala, Mcanopy is just north of me. But the same goes for the 2 traders, they did have their trading post on the Suwannee. So Boleck and Bowlegs are different, when reading some of the history books they used different spelling. For example, Tampa was Tamper, Suwannee was San Juan earlier.

now where is bolecks property?

It should be the Bowlegs town of 1818, something does not make sense hear, they supposedly moved stuff across from their trading post to the other side of the river because Jacksons troops were coming. I t was to be the west side of the river(California Swamp). This map shows Jacksons army coming from the west side, so is this map correct or is California Swamp misinterpreterd and trading post was on west bank of river and treasure/goods were moved to the SE side of the river into other swamp areas?

from the river, that would be one huge cattle grazing area. You cant walk that in a day!

Hey Sabre, no problem here. Good luck to all in our mad world of treasure hunting.

I have seen that map before and also another one like that, the whole area is swamp right there. I believe their measurements back then were off, any ideas?

Your map of Jackson coming from the north would make it seem that if they said move across the river it would mean to move over to the east side, what are your thoughts, would they have been on the east side and move to the side that jackson was coming from? I agree with you that it may not be marsh back then, I google earth odulond and goodson island, trees and high ground there. What do you think, or over on hog island?

I will be there this weekend and I will let you know, If I find something be prepared to come up for drinks!

Definately some coins too, I will check that spot, a little high ground there. Go to little bradford island and goodson island and oduland island, does there appear to be structures there to you?

what year was that map?

Hey RelicD, look at your post under Florida, buried kegs of cross city and compare maps and notes, one says it was closer up by clays landing. Take a look and let me know what you think.

If you measure it on google it fits the size of house roofs maybe smaller, looks like a dock near the water, covered dock? You replied on my other thread of buried kegs in cross city on the florida thread and said it looked to be somewher near clays landing, still feel that way?

I agree it may be the spot, I am going there and am going to hit every island around there with a 2 box. If no kegs at least maybe pirate treasure buried in the area.

I agree with you, that is why I am going to check out that entire area. What do you think about the buildings, the one on goodson island i believe looks to have a dock. There are no roads around here, it would be cool if these are all really old shacks.

no worries, come up here and help out!

Sabe, Clay's Landing is where I was telling you about the campground and that is the side of the river the campround is on. The more you guys talk the more I remember.

Did you check on the structures?

OK here goes, we went this morning and took a boat and did some island hopping. Pictures will follow.

 any trinkets?

No trinkets, no gold/silver no arrowheads etc. Very cool area though. I have come to the conclusion that Thomas Terry and all of these other so called treasure writers are idiots, they write their books without any information where the data comes from, its all vague. Who knows if stuff is here, its such a vast area and the same with the confederate stories of dumping kegs in the river. Its a huge river, why dump kegs of gold coins when you can bury them and fabricate a story to appease your superiors. They probably came up with the union gunboat story so they could steal the money for themselves. As far as this Andrew Jackson story goes I have never seen any documentation stating that this cache existed or was offered for a last attempt at a pardon. Between the author Terry and the guy who promotes treasurelore.com, they should have never started their works without providing some reference or source of reference point. I am not sure but treasure atlas should be catalogged under fiction or historical fiction!

any pottery sherds or age to the structures in the one area?Arthinbutheadnot place is around there somewhere you do know that his place is not going to be much left  above ground after 200 years of hurricanes...You may have to dig for his store spot....   

If the trading post was anywhere around the area we were at then either people years ago found it or it was built over by the existing homes and structures found there today. Our guide said he has found tons of arrowheads and indian artifacts. Infact, he found remains of an indian and called in the university but they never came and got it. Locals say the archaeologist have ruined the mounds so bad they are unrecognizable. The mounds once stood at 18 feet high in areas now barely reach seven feet tall. The archaeologist destroyed the area and above that I have been told that at the university where the public can see artifacts only a small portion are shown while a huge number are kept in the basement out of public view. Archaeologist and the government including state and federal have ruined the entire treasure/relic industry for their benefit and greed.

Here are a few pictures of the trip,enjoy!

PS: Odlund Island is named after the family who settled their and received squatters rights. It is unmaintained and looks like a ufo took people in the 1950's/60's out of their and left it.

the last odlund home built





This photo depicts an actual pirate sleeping in transit to find booty!

Our guide said the archaeologists from the University of Florida destroyed the mound on Hog Island. All the artifacts are kept hidden from the public. So much for our cultural heritage. It now belongs to the archies! Pic 1 is what we had to walk through on Hog Is. Pic 2 is whats left of Arbuthnots store!

looks like the place i see the old rusty roofs, to bad about the store but i wouldnt give up just yet after one day ..Hit some surrounding areas close to it,should be a trail of goodies somewhere...I like the ufo part How in the hell did they get all that stuff out there,any roads?

Check this out.....http://www.floridaview.com/communities/Dixie/Suwannee/plain.html

No roads, just water!

Relic, there is tons of trash in the surrounding area, nails, beer cans, chicken wire, etc. The ground is extremely difficult to dig. Too many roots. I saw several shell mounds that were flattened out.

Their great for a wetlands environment like where we were!

 I would like to come oneday,could you guys take me back out there? I think the old store maybe just a bit off the odlund land.. Scuba that second pic of abuthnots store is not old enough to be the store...The cinder blocks that the walls were built  on are not very old... The rough saw cut heart pine  timbers do look kinda old 1910 maybe..

No their are no remnants of the store. It is long gone, but there are many areas that still need to be checked out. Lets make another day of it sometime.

In the story i posted it says  that  odlund built the first school house for the area,and also his wife opened a seafood  place.Do you think  odlund could have  made that kind of money fishing?Plus they had 9 kids to take care of,i wonder if any grand kids are around that may have some old stories..He may have found something in the old days...And he also stoped fishing in 1926

I considered that too, I believe there is a grandchild living in Suwannee. I will look into that next trip.

Fascinating story.  I live approximately 35 miles (as the crow flies) from Cross City FL. I am retired and am always looking for something interesting to do. Let me know if I can be of any help.

~Mike

Is there 2 different threads on this, its getting me confused....

I take it that everyone has stopped talking about this now,  how come?

Dunno.. I was hoping for at least one 'road trip' to develop.. Guess everyone got involved in other projects..

~Mike

sun,

 sounds good !! we gonna have alot of places to go, got another co worker about to buy a metal detector....talk to you tommorrow before work...gregg

Been looking for this for a couple of years, not a whole lot of info out there and nothing to prove it ever existed.

Does anyone live close to Cross city here?  Im about 5 hours away.

Yes I am an hour and half away

In regards to Terry and his US Treasure Atlas:
I am not sure where he gets all those stories, but each one I have checked on has some bases in truth. I have checked out at least 50 of them in Oh and KY and IN.  I have found that either they were legends and there was no truth to the caches or someone came back and retrieved them, or they were already found. Remember he authored those back in the 70s and 80s....and with each generation of better Metal Detectors more has been found. I have three that lead me to great possibilities but land owners are not cooperating in letting someone dig. I do not think Terry is ripping anyone off; he put a lot of research into those sites! He gave it his best shot and probably didn't have time to check out the rest of the story on each one. An example: he has one in Indiana (437B) about a place called Hindostan (yes really) cholera epidemic, kills maybe 1,000 people in the area. Before dying the treasurer of the county buries the county money and records. I went there found everything to be true, then after talking to some people found out 2-3 years ago (2006-7) a lady that worked at subway and her husband found the stuff right where I was looking! They didn’t divulge the amount of the coins but donated the records to the county! Terry was spot on in this regards. I could go on and on but suffice to say in my experience 40 per cent are true and still unrecovered. Again the percent is no reflection on Terry he reported them as he found them….we have to sort them out! I have spent many enjoyable hours researching his leads further.  I always found some info on every one of them. Treasure found? Several places. Treasure recovered? Zero. But,” today is the day!”

I'm not far from cross city myself.....

Yep! They Wuz buried awright, I'm sitting on one o'them kegs right now and resting my feet on the tother...HAR HAR HAR!!!  Just kidding, sounds like real dang good story and he probably did have some kegs or caslks buried...Good luck and keep on treasure hunting!