(Pics) mine w/ chestnut burr above..(New link to Video)

This picture was taken just inside the mine opening...     posted a picture of the chestnut burr on a later post!!!!!  

who cut the trees in the one pictures

Hey all. Thought i would point out something important in the second pic of the opening. On the left handside on the wall you'll see the name ELI. It is wrote in suit from a chared piece of wood. I found a section in Mike Steelys "Swift silver mines and related appalachian treasures" about a Eli Cleveland. Steely states, "several men who knew Boone in the later days of the Ky settlement also knew of Swifts or his mines, and these included John Filson, Robert Breckenridge, Eli Cleveland, John Morton, James Callaway, and James Harrod". Surprisingly enough there are other name carvings around this area of men from that era.
Also i have been doing research on this mine i found.. I have been reading on and going to saltpeter mines in my supposed area. I have proved this mine i found is NOT a nitre "saltpeter" mine. Another mineral in question is iron ore, this looks to not hold water either. This is great news for me, this mine could or could have held something very valubale. Then of coarse the Swift landmarks all seem to match this area, and plus taking in to acount of how much the land has changed over the last 250 years due to settlement of moden day. All these names fit the bill of my area...........ttyl           -Ki-

wow awesome cave! Have you explored much of it?

This is a nice cave find.  However, Swift's Rich Mine (the one with the chestnut bur rock above the opening) is only a "Bear's den", with an opening the size of a Hog's Head Barrel in red sandstone on the second ledge (which I have pics of - everything is EXACTLY as Swift stated in the journals).  In front of the opening (again, the size of a Hog's Head Barrel), is a rock that looks as if it fell from another rock - directly behind this is the Rich Mine opening.  Also, at the head of the next drain is a haystack rock.

I never posted pics of the outside of this opening, This is in a second ledge, and the opening is the size of a hog's head barrel (keg) in red sand stone. What one must consider with the many many versions of the journal is that the journal these days are wrong! ALL OF THEM!!! They have been added to, or things have been taken out. The KEY these days is HISTORY!!! You may find clues in the journal, but its not going to lead you to these mines, they just won't!!!  Sure there are the same land marks all over these parts, many places have these key landmarks all in the same area. So who's to say who is right or wrong when it comes to these mines... sure anyone can claim to have found them, what i ask is where's the proof, where is the history backing ur claim...sorry to say i still wont believe it by being in a book, ive read to many books about people claiming to have found the mines in books... they were all wrong.... history is the key to unlocking this secret sorry to say!!!    In the picture below i crawled back in this opening about 30ft, to explore for future research and to take some pictures, what i found inside was amazing!

You are correct, many have stated they have found the mines.  However, even though the journals have been copied and added to/deleted sections several times, over 90% of the journals agree with the specifics about the Rich Mine.  It IS a Bear's Den with two seams of Silver ore that go back.  Also, there is an opening where Swift and Co. had hid their molds and tools (which have been found and taken out).  Swift placed a rock and masonry over the opening (as well as the opening of the Bear's Den itself).  Bits of the rock and masonry are still there inside the Bear's Den (in fact, I used a big chunk of the rock to tie a rope to.  Also, the actual mine has been filled in with locust and dirt (which I have several pieces of the old locust and have had them dated to Swift's time). 

All I have to do now (I am waiting on a friend from FL to come in and help me) is to dig out about ten ft. of dirt and I should be at the two seams of Silver ore.  This is the ultimate key - finding the rich Silver veins at the rich mine (of course, there are some older obscure journals that state it is Gold and not Silver - the only way to find out is to uncover the seams).

I have been busy working on a KGC depository and have not been able to finish up some of my Swift research.  Starting next week, I will be looking for the "Great Cave", as I am tired of chiseling stones at the KGC site and the person helping me there cannot come back in until November.  I plan on hunting for 2-3 weeks for the "Great Cave".  Then, if I find it or have no luck, I plan on excavating the Rich Mine (with or without help).  After these things are accomplished, I will finish my book within a month and let everyone know where everything is, so they can see for themselves (BTW - the three major mines in the gap are within three miles of one another just as Swift stated). 

My friend, Ralph, and I have spoken about your find.  I think you mentioned there was a V and an upside down V carved near the entrance.  If this is correct, I know exactly what you have found.  While it is not related to Swift, it is a GREAT FIND!  Congrats on it btw!

One last thing, there is the half moon rockhouse to the West of the Rich Mine, where Swift also melted ore (in fact, there are still holes in a huge rock there where Swift and Co. poured the Silver into to make pigs.  Also, there is a Buffalo Rock over the hill or slope (as Swift stated), with the table top rock on the clift above it.  West of the Rich Mine is also Needle's Eye Rock.  And, last but not least, West of the mine are the sinking creeks and the Indian Bead Spring!  I have found all of these and have pictures of them.  The most intriguing part is they are EXACTLY where Swift stated they were in relation to the Rich Mine!

All im saying (" im not bashing anyones books by the way if your reading this") is people can claim to find swifts mine, but never show i picture, and always go on like they'ed solved the puzzle in books. I know its good to keep somethings secret, in some cases seeing is believing. Swiftseacher it might be best for your book to show some pictures in this forum, get people interested in what you claim to have found!!! ... Im sure some pictures will not give away your location, or the location of any landmarks. Im a photogragher, my friend you can always take a picture of just the subject, without giving away the subjects surroundings. Like carvings, rocks, trees, ex.  Just a thought     happy hunting n wish you the best on your find

I have shown some pics Ki.  The one I am not showing is the chestnut bur rock however, as I want it, the rich mine opening and a few others to be a surprise.  I have stated before, I am really do not think I will make a fortune on selling books and don't care about it.  I am just putting everything in book form to show people where everything is and tell the story about how I found Swift's mines (the four primary mines he mentioned) and that the journals all have a bit of truth to them (although some things have been changed/altered and I will point those out as well).  It has been fun and will continue to be fun until I find the Great Cave (as I will NOT publish my book until I prove to myself that the Great Cave is or is not where I believe it to be).

Unfortunately, I stumbled across a large KGC depository in my adventures and have spent too much time there, although my partners and I are close, we still have a lot of work to do there as well, as the KGC certainly made it time consuming to enter this depository!  I believe I will take a break from the KGC site for a few months and concentrate on the couple of Swift places I have yet to find - the Great Cave and the teakettle rock (I know where both are, the terrain is rather rocky and dangerous and it will take me some time - especially for the Great Cave, as the entrance is going to be hidden and small - like finding a needle in a haystack). 

Ki - sorry I haven't had a chance to answer your PM's yet.  I will do so now (before I meet my daughter for lunch at school).  You seem interested in Swift and these legends and we might schedule a meeting to see if you want to help me on the Great Cave or excavating Swift's Rich Mine, as you seem to be a Mountain Man, like myself (although I am a disabled veteran and don't get around as quickly as I once did in the mountains).  I will go ahead and PM you now.  I look forward to speaking with you.  Who knows, you might get a "sneak peak" of the Rich Mine and some sites before my book comes out!

[it is a mine]

Joe, i have not explored this hand dugg cave much, i only went back around 30ft. It seems to have been filled in with dirt at one time. I plan to go back very soon, it is a mine of some kind, now just figuring out what kind... 

Ki,

I sent you a PM about the cave.  You are correct - it IS a MINE!  Rumor has it that the Indians mined and hid silver ore there!  Also, several Indians have looked for it over the years, but were unable to find it.  Congrats on finding it and good luck recovering anything in/around it!

Scott Elkins
"Swiftsearcher"

Thank you swiftsearcher   I have also heard other storys about this place as well. I knew it was indian, just by its location close to indian graves, and the carvings at the place! I plan to get a md, and hand held md up there asap. only thing, this place has seemed to have been filled and closed off at one time, and then reopened. There is also a rockhouse/cave in the adjasent ridge, im thinking this may have been a store house for their ore.

Again, there are others on here with more knowledge about general treasures than myself (I have mostly concentrated on Swift over the years, though I have been into studying the KGC quite a bit as well since my find), but I would say that any cave the Indians might have hid something in would have been covered.  I know the KGC site I am at was covered by rocks and mortar to make the vault look like the rest of the clifts.  There is no way anyone could tell what was there from any distance (until you are standing on the ledge at the vault).  The ONLY way I found it was that I was lucky enough to stumble across a rock map at a cave entrance.  The map led me away from that cave and I started finding carved rocks and symbols cut long ago on trees (as well as a couple of old grafted trees).  I followed a carved arrowhead rock to a couple of trees with hearts carved at the bottoms and directly behind them I noticed some carvings on the "clift" that were crosses (the same that were carved on the rock map at the cave).  I had walked by that clift section several times hunting for a Swift cache and never noticed it until I was right upon it!!!


Long story short - the "valuable caches" were hidden - either by dirt, rock, mortar and made to look like the rest of the landscape.  So, unless you stumble across a map somewhere, you will probably have to detect everything (or, at least I would).

Awesome you mentioned a map... believe it or not but on the same ridge that id found the rockhouse/cave, i found a map carved in stone. It looks to be alot older than the other carvings that are there. When i found it, the first thing that poped in my head was it was probally a map indians had left to tell other indians to where to find things that were hidden. I wish i could give more info cause there was alot of indian and french activity in this area. I to plan to write a book about this find, from what ive learned so far there is really no historical record of this place, i plan to change that! The awesome thing about this map, is it shows the mine, and the rockhouse/cave excactly were i found them... there seems to be another place the map points to as an X or M, it may take me until the weather gets cold again, and the leaves fall back off the trees for me to figure this last clue out... I will keep everyone posted about this.

[A land grant id found states]

In the second picture in my first post on this topic, you see the name Eli.... I found this land grant just the other day, funny i seemed to over read this in Mike Steelys book!

A land grant id found states :   Made on January 5, 1791  "Eli Cleveland and John Morton enters 1483 acres of land on two treasury warrants No. 15232 and 12128 on a branch of Red River to include an Old camp in the center where there is some troughs at said camp on the branch side. The said camp is a place difficult to access supposed to be John Swift's old camp and others including a Mine said to be occupied formerly by said John Swift and others".

 

 This picture is About 20ft back 

     INTERESTING... I "see" the "marks"; COULD be "Mason Marks" ( "google" it...); looks like a "YAM", in the second
"pic"... COULD be someone's "initials"; JOHN MORTON?   JAM?    GREAT "FIND"!

 In the one picture of pointing out the diffrent rocks i found this carving on the wall, it is a carving, it shows in two diffrent pics i took inside this mine. It kinda looks like a bell, and then again it kinda looks like an arrowhead... I know in some swift journals there is a bell mentioned, it also could be pointing the way...

Thanks Rebel, it very well could be JAM (John Morton) if so this would be the mine they mention in their land grant... I plan to get back up there in the next week and take more photos....  -Ki-

    The "arrow' is known as a "POINTER"... found "pointer-rocks" also;  they are arrow/spearheads
without "shaft-piece" (local slang).   Usually to "point" YOU in the "direction", YOU should go (CAREFULLY).  The "bell" is usually an "ALERT" sign... like a dinner bell... DANG!  NOW, I am hungry... LATER! 

zip zip
 

" shhhhhh

Chestnut burr rock  What would a chestnut burr look like, people have many opinions on what this rock may look like...I have a chestnut tree in my backyard... The burrs that fall from this tree are round and pickily, which could be the kind of decription Swift would have given to this marker, he would name things the way they would apper to him. So the chestnut burr rock should be round and rough textured... In this picture, at where you go into the place where the mine is found, is this rock just above the opening...  It looks like a chestnut burr to me........anyone have any other ideas?  -Ki-

here is a picture of a chestnut burr......

You know, speaking of the chestnut burr rock, are we sure that there wasn't a chestnut tree that was growing over the edge, spilling burrs down onto the rocks? Just a thought. But I think it was a rock which looked like a chestnut. like your picture. Thank you BTW....usually no one will post a landmark picture. keep it up, you have a great find there! 

You know, speaking of the chestnut burr rock, are we sure that there wasn't a chestnut tree that was growing over the edge, spilling burrs down onto the rocks? Just a thought. But I think it was a rock which looked like a chestnut. like your picture. Thank you BTW....usually no one will post a landmark picture. keep it up, you have a great find there! 

Swiftfan you bring up a very good point, there very well could have been a chestnut tree above them, dropping burrs onto the rock and piling up directly above swift and crew....these burrs hurt to touch and can get very aggravating, they also pile up in great numbers, very well could have been why Swift mentions this rock in his journals.......I believe this marker to be a rock as well, funny theirs one above the cavern id found, also this marker is located on the ridge across from where i found the JS carving and turkey tracks....Funny no one has talked about the description of the chestnut burr until now, I felt confertable posting this landmark pic cause i don't give the markers location away in the picture...I wished more people would post a pic from time to time, like i have said before, you can take pictures of the subject with out giving away the subjects surroundings....

Inside the mine shaft going back i came to a place that has a hollow sound to it, its in the floor just before the place that was filled in with dirt...I have crawled over this time and time again, then one day exploering the mine i hit this spot with my knee and noticed the hollow sound, This has me wondering?? I plan to dig this spot once i can make it back to the place, and have some time to say for a couple hours to dig and document things for my research.....i will keep everyone informed   -Ki-

Swiftseacher
                It was in the post above where i read the post where you mentioned those holes in the rockshelter....you wrote
              
"One last thing, there is the half moon rockhouse to the West of the Rich Mine, where Swift also melted ore (in fact, there are still holes in a huge rock there where Swift and Co. poured the Silver into to make pigs.  Also, there is a Buffalo Rock over the hill or slope (as Swift stated), with the table top rock on the Cliff above it.  West of the Rich Mine is also Needle's Eye Rock.  And, last but not least, West of the mine are the sinking creeks and the Indian Bead Spring!  I have found all of these and have pictures of them.  The most intriguing part is they are EXACTLY where Swift stated they were in relation to the Rich Mine!"



I have heard them called "honey holes" but the correct name is "hominy hole" cause it was once thought that Indians grind-ed there corn in these holes, hence the name "hominy". In fact the Indians of that time period had no knowledge of corn, they used the holes to gring their seeds and nuts that they gathered..... The era of Indians that carved those holes were the Adena, and hopewell cultures. This was middle to late woodland period... I just wanted to let other people know that if they were out looking and ran up on the holes to consider the Indians before jumping to conclusions and think they found molds....  Not saying anything about your find, or even what kind of holes you've found...I'm just trying to save some rock shelters and possably some peoples time who would have "dugg" when they find hominy holes like that.......

Ki, I have read in several books, including Steely's, where people destroyed these holes.  It is a shame people destroy this History.  I came close to punching this one person for destroying a huge furnace near the mines years ago!  He claimed he did it b/c he didn't want anyone finding it.  Well, I found the remains and knew exactly what it was and it would have been so nice if all of it would have been intact, as it was HISTORY!  This furnace was not in either of Swift's rockhouses in the area, but near the teakettle rock.  I believe it was probably used by the Spanish and Indians working the Rich Mine before Swift.  Again, too bad this IDIOT destroyed it, as we could tell more about it now and its origins!

I have a few nice pics of the chestnut bur rock and the mine opening in the red sandstone between the second and third ledges of the clift I will post as soon as I am done there and at the vault site.  Don't forget - there is also a "rock that seems to have fallen from another rock" very near, a tree that was in the way of the opening (which is dead now and I have pics of) and the haystack rock at the head of the next drain over, which is larger than the drain the Rich Mine is on.  I will post all of these pics for everyone as soon as I am finished with the "vault"! 

Ki, I have read in several books, including Steely's, where people destroyed these holes.  It is a shame people destroy this History.  I came close to punching this one person for destroying a huge furnace near the mines years ago!  He claimed he did it b/c he didn't want anyone finding it.  Well, I found the remains and knew exactly what it was and it would have been so nice if all of it would have been intact, as it was HISTORY!  This furnace was not in either of Swift's rockhouses in the area, but near the teakettle rock.  I believe it was probably used by the Spanish and Indians working the Rich Mine before Swift.  Again, too bad this IDIOT destroyed it, as we could tell more about it now and its origins!

I have a few nice pics of the chestnut bur rock and the mine opening in the red sandstone between the second and third ledges of the clift I will post as soon as I am done there and at the vault site.  Don't forget - there is also a "rock that seems to have fallen from another rock" very near, a tree that was in the way of the opening (which is dead now and I have pics of) and the haystack rock at the head of the next drain over, which is larger than the drain the Rich Mine is on.  I will post all of these pics for everyone as soon as I am finished with the "vault"!  

SS, I agree its a shame some people just dont have the respect for the historic places and sites in the woods........ To be honest i would have been mad too about the guy tearing the furnace down, id say it had quite a story to tell.
Awesome, i cant wait to see them....i love seeing any pictures that has to do with the Swift legend...  Good luck with the "vault" you'd found, Im hoping it everything you've expected, espeacialy with all the time, hard work, and research you have put into it.... I really do wish you the best....... -ki-

The base of the furnace is still there, and it was HUGE!  I have some pics of it somewhere. 

Good luck on your quests as well Ki!

While it could be a point about the burr rock, Swift mentions other formations such as "the lighthouse". it was a rock described as resembling a lighthouse. That's what makes me think the chestnut burr rock would have looked like a chestnet burr. But I still wouldn't rule it out. Because what if that marker was mentioned that way to throw off "other parties"? Hmmm...just a thought.

Hey Seth,
what ever happened with your find back on the mountain?
Did you ever get to go down into that cave?

While it could be a point about the burr rock, Swift mentions other formations such as "the lighthouse". it was a rock described as resembling a lighthouse. That's what makes me think the chestnut burr rock would have looked like a chestnet burr. But I still wouldn't rule it out. Because what if that marker was mentioned that way to throw off "other parties"? Hmmm...just a thought.

I totally agree, i believe maybe Swift would have mentioned somethings to throw people off, that he would have only knew.........Also the "journals" and "maps" i believe some things were added and taken out in the many times it was copied. The good thing about this that the journals all match on certain points....

Well I had three people interested in going down into it, however none of them ever made anything of it. So it still sits unexplored I do believe.

Seth

I have the same trouble here, id love to have someone join me out from time to time but can never find anyone who will join me out in the woods.....there are a few caves here I'd like to explore but will not go in them alone....Its always good to have someone with just in case something bad may occur....

Thought id post a picture of some of the quartz like i have been finding around the site of this mine/cave....I have herd before from others that when you find quartz its a good sign, and can usually find Silver or Gold, or other metals nearby. I have been finding all sorts of quartz's, like geodes, some agate, and a small crystal clear like quartz....... What is very interesting is that the agate and geodes are washing out of the ground from a fracture in the earth very near this mine/cave, these fracture occur along some fault lines...and as some of us know that faults bring valuable metals to the surface where they can be found.........of coarse you have geologist that speculate and claim that the rock layers aren't supportive of metals in the rock found here in Ky, but how do they really know for sure when they only study certain areas and claim silver cannot be found here. People find iron, and lead all of the time in the ground around here, so who's to say that silver cant be found as well? I believe geologist and other national forest officials only claim that nothing can be found to keep the many treasure hunters, and Swift believers away from digging and destroying the many rock shelters, caves and other natural habitats keeping them safe.

Although their very well could be small veins of pure silver around the mountains of Kentucky, I believe mostly any silver that will be found will be found in Iron ore, and or lead deposits..... Swift describes another metal that was found as well that he thought was useful when smelting his Ore.

      The scientific evidence seems to
  preclude fabulous silver treasure being mined
  in Kentucky. Geologists as well as park
  naturalists, rangers, and other knowledgeable
  officials I interviewed expressed skepticism of
  the Swift bonanza. Mr. Warren H. Anderson
  of the Kentucky Geological Survey responded
  in writing to my query:
        
       Silver occurs in a variety of geologic
  environments, is generally associated with
  certain minerals and is found throughout the
  geologic time scale. From a geologic
  standpoint it is possible for silver to occur in
  sandstones in eastern Kentucky, but this does
  not mean that silver actually exists in economic
  quantities. Some silver has been reported in the
  western Kentucky fluorspar district (Hall and
  Heyl, 1968, Economic Geology, V. 63, No. 6,
  p. 655-70) as well as trace amounts in the
  central Kentucky mineral district (Jolly and
  Heyl, 1964, Kentucky Geological Survey,
  Series X, Reprint 15). As these reports indicate
  silver does occur in small amounts in
  Kentucky.

Found this piece doing some research on the silver mines...............    

Found this mine in the fall of 2006, it was covered by the rocks laying in the front..... 

Ki,

I have found both gold and silver in KY but its so far been in small amounts and isolated pockets. However I recently found some old Indian silver mines that lead me to believe that four of them could have been connected deep enough...maybe that is what Swift found in his best mine?
There are two of them about 300 yards apart and then two more about 1/8 mile apart from those two. Sometimes the vein gets pinched in in its way up in one place and then goes in another direction(at least that's the way it happend out west at times).

   Gotta go back to "mine opening" "pics" at beginning of this "thread";  NO ONE else saw the "face in the mist"... I see a face (eyes, nose, mustache); is it ELI?  

WoW i just now seen it.... the mist you are refering to is nothing more than the smoke from me smoking while resting and looking around. One thing the smoke showed me was there is a little air coming through the mine, not much but a little. Makes me wonder if there is another opening to this mine some place, or a vent.
PLans are being made, the end of the month my brother and I plan to camp and explore, also to digg at the spot of where i found a hollow sound. This may help to figure out just what it is ive stubbled onto...

   Ki, glad you see it now;   smoking (smoke) will bring out "outlines" of spirits/ guardians.   I use WHITE SAGE smudging to get "outlines" and "bless haunted" places; the FIRST picture MAY just the "darkness" beyond yer "flash"... HOWEVER!   I have had a "black blob" rush me
once, no harm done... just a bit startling.  Yer "dark" space looks MORE like a "liquidified humanoid"
shape "coming at you".    I DO think, "ELI" may be "protecting his site", and you should only
"explore" the cave/tunnel, during the day.   When you and yer brother camp out there... be VERY
careful; you will have an "interesting night".  Take LOTS of "pics" and join us in the "paranormal sub-board", where "treasure-haunts" are discussed.

   Me, again... a few MORE thoughts, "occurred" to me.   You & yer brother could explore that site,
during the day, HOWEVER!   I would invite a few more TRUSTED friends to camp out, that night; ALL with digital cameras, to "record" interesting events.   You felt some air "rushing in", like a vent or something... SAGE smoke WILL allow you to follow the swirling smoke to the "source" (opening);  OR...
you have a "cold spot", and batteries will "drain out", of a GHOST trying to "materialize"; I have seen & felt such, in the past.   Have NO fear, and if it is ELI, simply tell 'em, you mean no harm, and WILL
NOT run, or be scared of him.   

Ki,

Thanks for sharing everything you have given us.  Merry Christmas and God Bless!

Your very welcome....  Merry Christmas to you and everyone in this forum as well.......  God Bless

  Me, again... a few MORE thoughts, "occurred" to me.   You & yer brother could explore that site,
during the day, HOWEVER!   I would invite a few more TRUSTED friends to camp out, that night; ALL with digital cameras, to "record" interesting events.   You felt some air "rushing in", like a vent or something... SAGE smoke WILL allow you to follow the swirling smoke to the "source" (opening);  OR...
you have a "cold spot", and batteries will "drain out", of a GHOST trying to "materialize"; I have seen & felt such, in the past.   Have NO fear, and if it is ELI, simply tell 'em, you mean no harm, and WILL
NOT run, or be scared of him.   

Rebel.... were all set to campout next week, it will be interesting to see what strange things that may occur that night. I'll let you know how things go, Merry Christmas!!!

Getting ready to head out, im going to digg the hollow sound i found in this mine. camping out tonight so ill have plenty of time. If my lead proves correct i hope to find some gold and or silver coins the Shawnee hid long ago, I believe this to be what the Indians kept returning looking for through the years..... Its in the same local area where ive found a bunch of Swift clues as well.  Hope to have some answers for this soon, ill let you know what i find....

Way to go, Ki!  I'm very jealous; with I was going with you.
Please let us know how it all goes ASAP when return!

--Chris

 Good luck to you and be safe . A simple  will be sufficient answer if you make a good find .
 Jim

You are tough Ki, its warming up but not that warm...how ever if I had as good a lead as it sounds like you have I would be out there too! Good luck my friend!

    Ki, update?    (Twilight Zone Theme playing...). 

Ki,


You have been gone long enough now,....You need help carrying back all that loot?


Theme now playing is "Jaws"...did they get him?

  Got some samples, appears to be ore of some kind. Someone long ago took alot of time to fill in this mine in extensively. Had to dig some of the fill out to be able to have room to dig where the hollow sound is located. It was a tight fit but I finally opened up the shaft enough to where i could get back in there. I was pulling out some very black rich dirt, you could tell that this dirt was brought here from some other place, normally the silt should have been a sandy texture because of the sand stone cliff, i mean its a tunnel through nothing but sandstone. Dug the hollow sound down to about 2ft down before i had to quit, didn't get to run a detector over the place, but plan to on a return trip. I noticed that from this spot in the mine that the tunnel went back even further and seemed to open to another chamber about 25 ft on back. This might take a couple more trips, but I'm very happy with the progress, and feel I'm getting really close to something great, all the signs are there, its defiantly Indian.
I didn't take to many pics of this trip, trying to keep my camera dirt free, but got a few pics. I'll take some detailed pics of the samples i brought back, and get everyones take on them. I should have them up in a few days, but now the sandman callith, i need some rest........
Thank everyone for their support..........  -Ki-

  Glad you are safe . Sounds like you had a FINE trip . Stay safe and keep on posting .
 Jim

Sounds like a good time!  I love spending the night around a campfire in a rockhouse; it seems to bring me back to my roots.
Keep us informed and, please, share the pictures!

--Chris

Hey Ki
    Sounds interesting, hope it opens up back further, and something is in there for ya! Looks like your having a good time.  God I miss it!  I gotta get down there with ya sometime and camp out and check out some of your spots, let me know when you are going to camp and maybe I'll come down and camp...if I can, (I know what your sayin, yeah, yeah, yeah) well good luck with things ....Swiz

Love sleeping in rockhouses, beats carrying tent and sleeping bag, makes more room for carrying things in, also carrying things out  

Swiz.... good hearing from ya, hope to see you come this way in the spring, also we are all planing on getting together soon, meeting everyone.... maybe camp, sit around a fire and tell storys, hike and for the most part have fun!!

Im working on some pictures today, should have a few posted soon....  -Ki-

Ki,
You might try building a fire on that hollow sounding area and ten scrape the coals off and pour cold water on it..it’s how the Indians fractured the rock to get at veins of silver. The busting up of that hollow sounding place may lead you right to something. Please be careful, use a respirator if you enter it, the Spanish were active all thru KY and left behind stuff like cyanide/strychnine type poisons for those not suppose to find their stashes!

Curtis, pretty good idea..... I'll keep that in mind   
The thing with this mine is all the dirt that has been placed in the site. From the entrance of the mine back to about 20-25ft it has a solid rock floor all the way back, from here on it has been filled with dirt. From this spot in the mine the floor seems to drop or has been cut out down about 1-2ft below the level of the floor on the way in, i found this out by digging. The Indians could have done this to make the shaft more manageable to get through. It does seem to get tight in this area of the mine, i couldn't tell it with all the dirt that was in there. Another thing strange is the dirt itself, it don't match the sediments found in the mine, making me believe the dirt was brought here from another area. From this spot in the mine I'm still removing dirt, but looking back through the shaft there looks to be another chamber that opens... I hope to have this dirt removed in the coming weeks, alot of work still to be done. I'm recording, taking pics, and documenting everything about this site, it will take some time.... Whomever used this place in the past done alot of work to keep something hidden, now its the figuring out of what might just be hidden there......

Ki, Just wondering here. On the rock with the carvings, where it says oro, it is a spanish word for gold. on your photo of the entrance, it is shaped like a cross or the outline of a spanish monk with robe and arms out stretched. Notice number 1. that looks like the face in the mist or was that carved that way, to give the outline a face with the hood around the head. 2. if that is a cross or the arms? notice where i have it marked. that looks like a pointer on the end (>) go right. 3. looking at the entrance, a cross or a monk? this all depends on the entrance being carved in this way. remember the rose boy who found that piece of gold ore on the farm, is that near this location? (does it have to be a certain time of day for the cross/monk to show up like that?)
i don't know why, but to me, it looks like a monk with a long robe and hood with arms out stretched. if this was a spanish site and no one else as been in there before. how dangeres is it near the end. traps maybe and that pointer (>) the lines are just to smooth.

Ki,

This is getting good, hope the end of the digging brings you to a keg of coins or at least a vein of gold/silver.

Boomer is soooooo good, I didn't see that entrance picture as a cross! Nor did i notice the face! That's where experience comes in!

Boomer,
            I thought I had a pic up of the mine opening, i must have taken it off last year when I was deleting pictures off of some topics. I always feel like you can never be to safe with certain information. I'll get the pic back up for you guys, I'd post the pic right now, but i'm writing from my iPhone. Boomer I have noticed the cross at the opening, not sure if it was ment to be a cross or just the way the mine was cut when whomever was cutting the opening. First it appeared to me to be where a certain ore was found on the outer part of he cliff, and they just cut the rock that way. Looking at a bigger more detail picture you can see these things. One I knew the opening was not natural, it was man made. You can see like old chisel marks starting at the opening and they continue all the way back through the mine. To be honest it appears like whomever found this site long ago followed the vein of ore back through the cliff. 2nd there is a shape of a cross at the opening, this very well could have been a Spanish site, and then French. Givin the location the Indians claimed it first.
Another very interesting thing about this site is the fact that the cliff seems to have a natural fracture in the cliff. The fracture begins at the top of the cliff and comes down and stops at where the opening of the mine is cut in the cliff. What is interesting about this is metals long ago could have filled this void in the fracture. It seems to be why the shaft follows this fracture. I'll post the picture for you guys a little later.     -Ki-

Curtis,
         Ive got alot of dirt to move, but I'm having good luck getting this done. Finding some gold/silver coins would be very historic for the area I'm in, to be honest I'd be happy finding anything of historic value. I'm going very slow, sifting every bag of dirt I bring out of the mine, never now what could be missed if i rush digging, this might take the better part of the summer to complete. I'll keep updates coming... Curtis something interesting about this location, is on the next ridge over from this mine are those carvings of JS and other marks. The other marks appear to be that of Cherokee origin, it is said that the Cherokee help the Spanish with their mining activitys. Swift could have found this area some years after. It's close to one of the main Indian trails. But something has to be hidden here, all the signs point to something hidden. I'll let ya know what I find...  -Ki-

Ki, is this a friend of yours. keeper of the secret. notice how light and shadow can play tricks on the mind.
or is it something else, hmmmm.

Their seems to be letters and numbers and what looks to be symbols and that (J)

Hi Ki,
Remember the Spanish were bad about putting poison in the mines so wear a respirator when digging in the dirt/dust…some of it like strychnine was slow acting! I think you are right about the fractures rock conducting the minerals from below. That’s it show a lot of stuff gets into a vein form. I hope that when you get the dirt all out the vein doesn’t peter down (pinch) too small…if it does remember it will sometimes go back to a larger one again a little later on by following the crack/fissure. Actually I hope that when you get back there you find the rock that when removed lets you go down into the area Swift mentions that has the ingots and coins in it! The hollow sound under the floor could indicate that it’s the roof of the mine/storage area! I noticed in your picture of the inside that the lower part of the mine seems to have some dark material just above floor level…have you had that assayed?  Keep the pictures coming!
Oh here are the Cherokee words for silver and gold will send the site info later (got to find it again).

   ELI is "watching you"...     What is ELI's last name?  U... something? (EU on side of "wall").
     (TWILIGHT ZONE theme song playing...).    Coffee?

Reb...  Eli's last name was Cleveland.  Been rereading some of Mike Steelys book, it talks about Eli in a few areas. One place Steelys writes; Several man who knew D.Boone in the later days of the Ky settlements also knew of Swift or his Mines, and these included John Filson, Robert Breckenridge, Eli Cleveland, John Morton, James Calloway, and James Harrod. Also Steely forgot to mention Micheal Stoner, Boones right hand man.  

Boomer.......
          I do see the J now, the numbers appear to be 6? 62 and one more that cant be placed....
That face does look strange, but nothing out of the ordinary has happend here lately.....could be a Indian Spirit..

Curtis.....
       Thanks for the heads up on wearing a mask, would be good to practice in a tight place such as this, its all crawl or standing on your knees in this place. Funny thing is the size of this mine matches the size Swift describes of one of his mines in his journal. I'm excited how this might turn out, got some great weather coming up, also with me mushroom hunting I'll be in this area for a few weeks strait. I hope to get alot of this dirt moved during this time.  

Thanks again for the Cherokee words....     -Ki-

Here's the picture of the opening of the mine, you can kinda tell where its been cut out at the opening, it does look like a cross....

Found this in the Steely book; The Swift journals speak of both Spanish and French silver mines within the Old Cherokee holdings, one near one of Swift's workings. James Dougherty's "The legend of Swifts silver mine" notes that the mines were located "in the country claimed by the Cherokee but which were not occupied by them". The area, he wrote, had been the home of the Shawnee, also noted that the mines, or some of them, worked by Swift had been previously worked by the French and Indians, and the French lived in what is now Tennessee......

Thought id post a pic of "Silver ore" may be helpful to someone that was wondering what Silver would look like in raw form. Notice their seems to be some quartz in with this sliver ore.

Ki, glad you put the photo in. notice the two pointers. they have to be man made, all the cliff face is weathered rock. there has to be something in the direction there pointing. this could have been french/spanish. both used the cross. below is a photo of a cross found on the north fork of the red, near swift creek.

Hi Ki,

Great pictures...is the ore pic some of what you found? And have youhad or tried to have the Cherokee carved on the rock interpreted?

the old newspaper story of finding the mine. in one old paper it tells of the finding of the mine. but the paper is so faded,  i,m doing the copy the old way. maybe by sunday? in another it told of a mining company being formed. another tells of an assay report done. see below.

would everyone take a look at the photo of the (Rocks That Don't Match). those rocks look like they were broke apart and one side seems to be smooth. could the rocks be a masonry cap that was covering the small opening and someone used a sledge hammer to bust it open? notice the rocks are on this side of the small opening and nothing inside the crawl space. could be they moved them back so they could crawl in to this area. that's all i could think of.

the photo that has a carving of a bell or arrow. the small entry way there, is shaped like a bell.

Curtis,
        The ore sample in the pic is not Ky silver ore, just giving this as reference. But i have found something similar, in ways?
I have been thinking about getting some kind of info from a Cherokee Indian, to at least see what the carving is referring too, could be a place, name, or anything. A actual Cherokee might just find something my eyes are missing...

Boomer,
          Thats some great research, very interesting newspaper clips... I wonder if this mine is the one mentioned in one of the storys above. It is in the genral area, as well as the JS and Cherokee carvings...


The rocks that dont match, i once wondered if those rocks were masonary formed, it is possable that this area in the mine had been walled up. Could explain the arrow or bell carving on the wall in this spot. I'll look into this!

this manuscript i have is so bad and the newspaper went ahead and put it in miss spelled words and all. i have to guess at some of the wording. so far its been slow. part of it says: found the mouth of the cave, about 3 feet wide and 7 feet high ( sound familar) after ? 150 feet widened breath of fen feet fath?? on into a large chambeer which ? chamber ?    150 feet long ?? 70      wide           silver ore. i'll get the rest, office max is helping me on this. there new coping machines are a big help. also another story tells of mrs. timmons, she was working a mine not searching for one. paint creek. there were 9 locations of coins and bars being found. all the way from the mouth to west liberty and it gives the land owners names and locations. this last part, i'll need to go into the old land records of morgan and johnson counties.   

Have you done any detecting in there?

Thanks Boomer for working on this, it really does sound like the discription of this mine. Im amazed at you finding these clipings, they are awesome. Which Paint creek? Is it a tributary to the Red River? There is a Paint Creek located near by....

Have you done any detecting in there?

Still removing dirt out of the shaft, haven't really MD the mine yet, once progress is made i plan to do this.

ki, big paint creek, between west liberty and paintsville, rt. 460. on rockhouse branch of paint creek, there is a round rock near the large rockhouse on that branch that had several carvings. one was a triangle with a turkey track in side it, pointing west. and next to it is a JS but reversed. like the one below. also another anchor. why is the JS backwards. also at the mouth of paint creek a slanted rock was found with strange carvings on it and a map. there is a newspaper story on this and a photo. i hope i can find it. west liberty library had one. they can't find it.      

heyhey,

So....whats the word on ppl getting together, in Grayson Lake Park.

Has anyone ever ran across any info on southern Lawrence Co. KY(Louisa) and the Laurel creek area in Johnson County around Flatgap, KY while researching.
I had an interesting conversation with a pleasant old guy from that area that told me an interesting story about his great-great Grandfather and him finding a perfectly formed 4 to 5" by 3" bar of silver.
in that creek back in 1800's.  He also told me of a cave that his great-Grandfather and Grand father used to visit to get lead from it to make thier own bullets for the guns of that time.  It was a very interesting story.
Although he did not now the exact location of the cave he did tell me the area that it was in from stories his Grandfather told him.  He also mentioned this cave had a rock in front of the entrance if that has any value.
I am new to this Swift legend and was wondering about this info.....let me know..thnx KW

Boomer-
           Ok, i know the Paint Creek spoke of now, its located in a good area. Appears to be very close to a branch of the Warriors path (Buffalo trace). The more i read of the description above, the more it sounds like the mine I've found. Where it talks about silver ore, could it be a vein or deposit 150ft by 70??? humm.... or maybe just measurement of shaft...interesting!

The JS reversed could be the particular marks Swift mentioned cutting on his way to and from the area of the Mines. Only Swift and the crew members with him would of knew what the marks where, a Indian or another long hunter would have Trouble figuring out what the marks ment or who cut them. Just a thought...

UpTheCreek,
                There is mention of Swift's richest mine being behind a fallen boulder or rock. Ive also heard a story or to that the Shawnee Cave has a rock in front of its small entrance. "google" search John Swift, read everything you can find, the clues will present themselves in the journals and research. Your in a good area  

Ki,    your mine entrance does appear to be cross-shaped. But from another perspective it resembles St. Mark, the winged man.  If so,then this is probally a Spanish site.  There should be hidden numbers carved there representative of certain Bible verses.  There should be other hidden messages there-step back and take a broader more careful look at different times of the day.  Notice what is there and if there are any other funny shaped rocks nearby-are there any turtle or other animal shaped rocks nearby?  Could there be a pozo or plug hiding another entrance into this place?  Be wary.

http://www.treasurehuntersuniversity.com/treasure_symbols.html

The link above has a few carvings Ive seen around this area, esp, the Swastika carving....    also it has the symbol of the cross carving boomer posted a few days back....  Could be Spanish, the Cherokee were known to work these same mines.

Also in the link above look for Indians, in the box on the top lefthand side... good story about the way Indians would of hid things.

Ki, i hope to have this story completed this week and put it in on a new post. one part is odd and interesting. the manuscript they were using said> they went from somewhere on the little sandy river to its headwaters and crossed over a flat land into wolf county to a certain stream and came up on a peculiar large rock described in the document. some of the papers story i'm just going to have to guess at. i do have partial words. that helps. odd about being on the little sandy. why?? i hope the copies i pick up tomorrow will help.

ki, big paint creek, between west liberty and paintsville, rt. 460. on rockhouse branch of paint creek, there is a round rock near the large rockhouse on that branch that had several carvings. one was a triangle with a turkey track in side it, pointing west. and next to it is a JS but reversed. like the one below. also another anchor. why is the JS backwards. also at the mouth of paint creek a slanted rock was found with strange carvings on it and a map. there is a newspaper story on this and a photo. i hope i can find it. west liberty library had one. they can't find it.       

It could be because the JS is reversed, so are the directions. So west is East. Used to throw off other parties..

I have a question... where is it mentioned by Swift that the French "castle" is north of him and the "york" river is south? I have an idea...

Swiftfan,
           on his way to the mines, i believe

I find it strange that Stoner, Cleavland, and any of the others did not make mention a lot about the mines in correspondence with some one else...bet someday we find it in something like the Draper Manuscripts (only still in private hands)...maybe someone is just keeping it because it has an autograph on it they like, but the letter contains something about the mines. If any one findsit bet it will be Boomer...research, research, research! The key to finding treasure.

Curtis/Ki:  Curtis, the draper manuscripts from what i have seen are second, third hand information, most seem to be a collection of notes. some taken out of early history books.

Ki, below is another article on wolf county. in some stories Mrs. Timmon's died and never found anything. but than something pops up like the story below. one lady told me, oh, she had money. my granddad looked for timmon's cache. he said it has to be near the mine or her old house. so far all references to the different mine stories puts it north of the north fork of the red river.  
part of this story was in an old paper clipping a guy had, but it was cut to close on the sides and bottom. but you can make out most of it.

Good stuff! Wonder what "Herold" its talking about...it seems like somebody recently posted that they knew the exact location of the lady's farm and the arch named after her...gave the coordinates too.

Are you looking for the coordinates to Timmons Arch?
 
              TIMMON'S ARCH 37°47.408'N -83°34.1'W 

A great thread to watch, don't stop looking, but do be safe, and have fun.

Found a small write up. it has to do with some new york people finding a large lead vain near Mrs. timmons Arch where she was searching for the swift silver mines.

Curtis, last year i done alittle research on Michael Stoner, i was shocked to learn that he was Dutch... By him being Dutch, things he would have told people would not have been recorded, the colonials looked down on people like the Dutch, so their story's and history ment nothing, and were never recorded. This could probally explain alot of the gaps we seem to have in our history today.

Boomer, thats a great read......thanks for posting it

I believe both Henson and Steely give directions to Timmons mine, however this is not the area i am in with my mine. But i do have a post in the GPS help topic, with a map of its location.