A real head scracher

Hey
 I got a question. I was MDing the other day, it was raining and I was out in a old horse pasture. I would get  a strong signal and dig it but nothing, so I turned the sensitivity down to almost nothing and the signal was still there in the hole. My detector read 6 inches I dug a foot and nothing. This happened 4 times before I quit for the day. If it helps my detector is a bounty hunter land star. Also the was no fence or power line around(Maybe under ground through???). If you guys have a clue to what this might be please let me know. Thanks.
                                           C-Bob

Sound like it might be hot rocks or maybe your metal detector --  I would take it to another area and see if you have the same problem.  It was raining in Laramie???  Graduated from UW

Hot rocks can be pinpointed after detected however cold rocks go away when you go into the dc mode to pinpoint.

ground mineralization maybe? i guess it could have been the buried remnants of a barbed wire fence.

or maybe the target is big and deeper.



HH   Mark

hallo effect maybe disturbing the soil changes the signature making it smaller and harder to find....

Hey Guys
 Thanks for the advise. I haven't been back out so I don't know if it is my detector( I don't think it would be since I just got those few strong signels that weren't that close to each other,Right???) It might be my pinpointing style, I grab the detector right above the coil and get on my hands and knees and sweep the coil around. Also what are hot and cold rocks? And can someone explain ground mineralization, and how it affects my detector. Also it has been raining a lot the last couple of month's gabbit, but we have been in a drought and I like it a lot better than the snow. Thanks again guys.
                                               C-Bob

C-Bob  !
Believe me!  ;)
There are pages and pages     written about those very subjects !
I.E. : Hot/cold rocks, ground mineralization, effects on MDs, compensating for, etc !
Although, your MD manual should talk about them !

All of the above, but 'Vito' hit on something for all to be familier with and to Never forget. True treasure hunting

'A residual Halo is destroyed by the dig'.

What is that, and what does that mean?

Listen to this: I was looking for an old true story of a nice size burial on the side of a little hill one time and hit audio with my pulse machine that measured four feet x four feet square an almost pooped my pants.

In the process of trying to hang on to everything inside me and de-tuning, an de-tuning to way way below threshold and then some, I still had audio. - Being familer with the above possiblilty that Vito mentions We dug it 5 feet x 5 feet down 6" only, and re-audioed; and no more audio (zero), none, anywhere.

I then put the exact same dirt back in the six inch hole and re-audio'd. NOTHING, Zero audio.

Wow wow wee.
That is called residual audio, and is something the old dug soil of a past true burial that has already been transfered sets up that Very few people are familier with. ~ The ground is changed from the past precious metals burial; and in the past after whoever got the target, and the dirt was filled back in, the 'halo' word comes from that the exact spot will also set itself up with a 'halo' ring that will even tell you the depth of the last burial, now transfered.
(But of course Nobody believes in LRL, hehe)

And thats your college class in cache hunting for today, and Thanks for your imput Vito.

OK, thats fine, but I want to remind everyone that from those high minerals of rusted metal if thats what it was that time, that there was no longer Any audio at all, and, not even de-tuned. Zero.

I would like to also remind us that though the years men have broadened and widned the English language, and I personally will do it (personally) here at this time.

An then lastly I will say that there are Very few men or ladies reading this that have any experiance in testing spots of 50 kilos in Mexico before and after the digs.

And Thank you, and everyone have a good day. 

Tnx for the flowers, Joe. ;)

Fact is, everything which is reacting with somewhat (like oxydation) is building some new. If it?s in the ground it?s building a ?halo? even silver and copper.

I know about some iron artefacts plated with silver where the silver was gone in the ground during the long period they were buried. (Like an protecting silver electrode).

This all will take a few hundred years, not a couple of. ;)

You even may detect fire places on clay. During the oxydation the clay becomes a readable spot for the detector causing to the changed mineralisation.



Njoy

Thats a nice simple answer SWR, but it is not that brief or easy.

I would guess that even as knowledgable as you are, that you do not have first hand field experiance with long term large buried prescious metal targets.

#1 I am running a pulse machine that LOVES Iron, and yet when passing audio on the transfered dirt at not de-tuned de-tuned de-tuned threashold as before, but at threshold audio hum, I will have NOTHING, and is different than what Vito and I are talking about in the above. ~ You will never fully believe it untill it happens to you personally. The audio detection of the area is coming from the soil area that used to hold a long term buried catch. (Has Nothing to do with iron or metal. ((It can have, but not in what I am speaking of in the above.)) When the ground is disturbed the area is 'broken' from sitting there for years being undisturbed, and in the breaking (like a bubble) what the ground conditions had set up, the audio is gone. (Believe it or not, What I am speaking of has nothing to do with any metal or iron. And is known as a 'Pure Residual'.)

Secondly, all metals of anykind (yes at different rates), but all metals of any kind through the years will start acting in the ground as radioactive isotopes and set-up rings. Forgive me for using the word 'educated', but certain men are not in any way yet prepared for any of the above, for they haven't had the experiance or need to understand it since they are only searching with hanheld pulse or VLF machines.

(While some are laughing, there are some more 'professional' in certain subjects, working. (One mans misunderstanding is another mans gold mine.)

And Vito, whoever you are, Thanks.

BACK to your Original Question.

 The OBJECT? IS large IRON, and was Off to the Side,

Your Pinpointing was Off, Because The Edge of your Coil Was Actually Getting The Signal, Not the Center of the Coil As is Normal.

IF you Can, Widen the Hole, You Will Find It.

I'v Seen this Happen MANY times to Others, They would Call me over With My Probe & I'd Find the Object 2 to 3 Inches Away from their Hole, & it's Always Rusted Iron.

There is a good write up on Halos' by the technical geek in WET this month. Check it out.

Ed Donovan

I bet Jeff called it right.  Iron off to the side.  You can usually tell by pinpointing in disc and then pinpointing in pinpoint mode.   You'll find what you thought was the target center move.  Sometimes by quite a bit.

HH

Well guys thanks a lot. This is the most replies on a topic I have had seance I have been on this forum.

well said jeff clean and simple ,,, my words too,, just a hit and miss of to the side,,, my brother has the bounty hunter lone star, and he has trouble pinpointing even when criss crossing, he's always diggen to the side,, he finds it in the end with the probe he he!  so C-BOB GO CHECK THEM HOLES you never know what might be waiting,, hope you get a good one HH  paul.

I too have a BH (Lonestar) and experienced the same phenomenon at a beach yesterday...very frustrating.  I tried every setting and often got signals in the notch position and nothing popped up. I just assumed that whatever it was it was too deep, but when I tested my platinum ring at the bottom of the hole I could not get a signal unless at 4-5 inches.

Can someone  please tell me the optimum settings on a BH for gold or just gold/silver in a beack environment (damp/wet sand)?  Can it be programmed using DISC to avoid crap without sacrificing depth?  this?  The BH manual is devoid of practiacl examples.

Bob
San Diego

or maybe the target is big and deeper.



HH? ?Mark

i would say your right on the spot on that. i have had that to happen a lot of times but i dig anyway because you never know whats down there

I'm brand new to MD. I just bought my first unit. It's a  Whites GMT. I'm replying to this post because I live here in Laramie as well, and this subject makes me wonder if it may be possible to get alot of false positive readings in this area simply because of the high content of iron all over the region. I mean to say that there is a reason that the hills all around us here are red. Forgive me if my question seems a bit pedestrian, but being new to this, I need to hear a few things from those who've been doing it for awhile. I do have certain advantages with my own equipment. From what I do understand, it does have a good reputation for being able to discriminate between the iron and non-iron targets, but I just wonder if there may be a significant handicap when hunting in areas where iron content is so high.

HI my friends:  K, if you are in an area with variable iron ore concentrations, such as the familiar black sand, as you sweep you either use manual or auto ground balance. Now if you move from an area with, shall we say, a certain level of iron ore reactance to an area that may be of a lesser concentation, the sound will rise similar to a metalic reaction.

---> ( Iron say 10) -->  (area of lesser iron content say a value of 3) --> (Iron of 10)

 sound level/meter 0               sound level/ meter rises              Sound level/meter drops to original

The above is a crude example.  A simple semi check is to make a large pass one way checking level of meter/sound, then do the same at right angles.  if the level remains the same both ways, dig.  he he. 

If it varies forget it, however, there is a possible similar reaction from a piece of metal that has an elongated shape.  Sooooo   dig also.

Don Jose de La Mancha

   Thanks Real. Is that more or less your own preferred method of ground balancing then? I do realize the importance of balancing, (fortunate for me that the GMT has an auto fast tracking setting that is supposed to  help out with that). I do hope it won't be long before I get the hang of using the manual adjustments, but in the short term, I really don't think I'm quite ready for a solo just yet.
   wouldn't ya know it...just as soon as I take delivery of my new MD I come down with a flu bug, so It's probably going to be at least another day or two before I can get out and try it out. Oh well. I'll just have to use the time getting more familiar with the owner's manual, and maybe hearing from some more of you folks in here with any tips for beginners you may have.
   Thanks again for the pointers any help is much appreciated.

[Goldfinger]

I'm brand new to MD. I just bought my first unit. It's a  Whites GMT. I'm replying to this post because I live here in Laramie as well, and this subject makes me wonder if it may be possible to get alot of false positive readings in this area simply because of the high content of iron all over the region. I mean to say that there is a reason that the hills all around us here are red. Forgive me if my question seems a bit pedestrian, but being new to this, I need to hear a few things from those who've been doing it for awhile. I do have certain advantages with my own equipment. From what I do understand, it does have a good reputation for being able to discriminate between the iron and non-iron targets, but I just wonder if there may be a significant handicap when hunting in areas where iron content is so high.

High iron can be a handicap.  Most detectors will mask iron well (iron reacts differently than other metals when comparing the inductance and resistance/conductivity - which is all detectors actually do).  The problem is that some detectors want to not trouble you with iron to the extent that they null-out when iron is present . . . and any gold or silver, unfortunately, as well.  An "iron mask" with no eyeholes.  A good detector will still give a high signal for more conductive metals in the presence of iron.  A great detector will pick out an item above or below iron.

Hi: Small thingie, but what if that small iron box that is eliminated was loaded with collector's Gold coins, or Diamond jewelry?  Cache hunting requires that all reactions must be dug up.  coin hunting does not.  Your choice.

Don Jose de La Mancha

Hi: Small thingie, but what if that small iron box that is eliminated was loaded with collector's Gold coins, or Diamond jewelry?  Cache hunting requires that all reactions must be dug up.  coin hunting does not.  Your choice.

Don Jose de La Mancha

Exactly correct, and that rusted box would NOT allow the detector's detector to detect those, otherwise, detectable coins.   

Thanks again to all of you for the helpful tips. As far as the actual hunting goes, my main purpose is prospecting, so I would prefer not to dig every target, (though I'm sure I'll dig alot of them until I get to be more familiar with the various tones), but I think that the number of holes I dig may depend upon the amount of research I've done on the area I'm searching. Like any searches I might get to make along the Oregon trail. Artifacts could easily be worth more than gold or silver, but when I'm scanning for black sand deposits along a riverbank or tracking for gold in a dry wash, I was thinking I may well want to screen out obvious iron probability, (77% or higher). Obviously, I'll alter that as I think I need to. And if I don't have much luck hitting targets other than iron. One other thing I wanted to ask is whether or not I can expect an especially distinctive tone if I were to come across a target made of zinc, (like the old mason jar lids were, or maybe some tin; for that matter), would brass be at all distinguishable from any of these other metals (based on tone)? Or am I just having unreasonable expectations? If so, then I may have to reassess and just follow the advice to just dig everything. I don't know...maybe I just answered my own question. I'd really like to find someone to go out into the field with at some point. That might thin out all of these newbie questions a bit. Will there be any upcoming events with local clubs you might direct me to?

Thor:  Generally, unless unusually large, all worthwhile metallic objects will have a short area of rapid rise and fall of the method of indication in your instrument.   Normally conductive ground is indicated by a loong easy sweep with slow drop offs at the edges, if they exist.

Don Jose de La Mancha

I can't believe this kind of rapid response. Thank you very much Don Jose'. I can see now that I made a good choice in joining this website. There's clearly plenty of knowledge base here. I'm growing confident that I'll learn a lot from the treasurenet forums. And I am just getting started, so I look forward to much more info from this source. I know that, in the long term, I'll need to just get out there and learn much of what there is to know from practical experience, but it's a huge advantage to learn what I can from folks like you who've already been out there for awhile. Much thanks.

BACK to your Original Question.

 The OBJECT? IS large IRON, and was Off to the Side,

Your Pinpointing was Off, Because The Edge of your Coil Was Actually Getting The Signal, Not the Center of the Coil As is Normal.

IF you Can, Widen the Hole, You Will Find It.

I'v Seen this Happen MANY times to Others, They would Call me over With My Probe & I'd Find the Object 2 to 3 Inches Away from their Hole, & it's Always Rusted Iron.

Solved. A square nail off too one side will fool any detector. I don't know why but it will. Been there and done it too many times.

The same thing happened to me last night. I was using a minelab xterra 30. Different machine but same results. I got a faint signal and pinpointed it and dug my plug. I went over the hole and pinpointed a stronger signal. Dug out a bunch of sand and then back to the original signal. The deeper I went the fainter the signal got. After widening the hole just a bit I found the square nail. About 6 inches from where it was pinpointing. I've also had these mystery signals as a result of of small staples and BBs. A magnet can be very helpful with tiny annoying items such as fine rusted metal no thicker then a bread wrapper and bits of rust from a relic that was removed long ago. Swiz

good morning my friends:   I just noticed thast it was a horse corral or pasture.   May I remind you that horse's  er, ahh, pee, is loaded with salts. Most of which are reactive, just like being at the sea shore.

In fact corrals are some of the best places to look for a buried treasure. Extremely easy to bury something in one, then merely run the stock over the spot and presto, it is hidden, no evidence of any digging.

Don Jose de La Mancha