found tip possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (update)

Then Ivan should simply give up and forget about it. We should all cease investigating events that may or may not have happened because if it would have happened surely there would be reams of documents supporting it. Especially considering how well documented and how detailed every second of every event of the Civil War was. I mean it's only been 144 years. It is impossible to think anything took place unnoticed and off the record since we all know 19th century war was incredibly orderly. Those 500 MIA soldiers couldn't possibly have anything to do with this because they couldn't have been missing in such a manner. We should never look for MIA soldiers based on unsupported tips and leads. I mean it's just 30-50 possible MIAs.

Right?

yeah, what GL said......NGE

It's Ivan's gig... he'll either find more information, some proof, another witness's story, or something.

Either way - it remains a story and always will I guess, now that this post exists - the perpetual electronic story.

Someday Ivan - or someone - will have to find the place where this deed was reported to have happened, or figure out that it didn't happen by accounting for those missing dudes.




I heard they hiked south and joined the Confederacy, and that's why the Union never found them.

If someone has a lead or tip, weak or otherwise, to the location of possible MIA soldiers then I feel it should be followed through and supported. There were over 500 MIAs reported in the area, this could possibly account for up to 50 of them. I think it is obviously worth checking into at the very least.
That's what I offer to this thread, support for the search for MIAs.

If someone has a lead or tip, weak or otherwise, to the location of possible MIA soldiers then I feel it should be followed through and supported. There were over 500 MIAs reported in the area, this could possibly account for up to 50 of them. I think it is obviously worth checking into at the very least.
That's what I offer to this thread, support for the search for MIAs.

First of all, I think it's a great adventure that Ivan is experiencing in his quest to find the allusive site of the alleged massacre.  Mysteries are always fun and I hope he continues to pursue it.  That said, I would like to mention something about the casualty category entitled "missing".  The numbers quoted in this category are most always vastly overstated when calculated immediately after a battle.  Once a fight is concluded, the troops muster and roll is called.  Any members of the unit not accounted for are recorded as being "missing".  This number was always overstated because of the numbers of soldiers that deserted, got lost or separated from their units, retreated with a unit different than their own, or became stragglers, common after a battle.  Many of the missing troops eventually reunited with their units, but the battle casualty reports were almost never amended to reflect that fact.  Some missing soldiers were actually killed but not accounted for, and of course, captured. 

the battle of olustee * fla --has a about a 10% MIA rate for union troops ( 506 were counted as mia -- out of about 5,000 / 5500)--many of them black infantry troopers * --( it was noted in the records ( diary remarks) of those that were there fighting that day ) that at least one confederate calvary commander told his troops as they went into battle in olustee that he would not be taking black prisoners.

comparing the POW numbers and reported dead number of union soldiers by the confederates (who controlled the battle feild afterward ) --with the unions reports of known dead and MIA ---still leaves a "gap" of about 188 men unaccounted for. -- these 30 to 50 men might be part of that 188 .

the event is said to have occured at the  OLD  civil war era farm owned by the higginbotham / higgenbotham family in the rough general area of where modern GARDEN and JONES roads intersect AT * --- I have phyiscally went there -- upon turning off garden onto jones (a "T" shaped junction with the long leg being jones ) there is a huge undeveloped treeless open feild farm type area --were cattle are being raised at today -- it would very easy to see it as a "horse pasture"  grazing area of long ago -- due to it massive size -- and posted signs all over it -- finding the owner and getting the ok to look about might be hard *these days ---- most land records of who owned what land during civil war times in this area got wiped out in the great jacksonville fire of 1901 -- not helping me in my search to locate exactly where  the old farm / homestead was at thus making matters much harder-- the roads name I find very interesting however --roads are often named for or by those who live on it, --  JONES road -- note the higginbotham / higgenbotham  family --after the war married with the JONES--and the BRADDOCKS a lot -- folks tended to marry next door neighbors and other "close by" freinds of the family  ( note most all the"post war" marrying  of the higginbotham / higgenbotham family  was with other families from company B --1st florida calvary) --you tended to marry who you knew -- and you knew the "neighbors"

"-- I hope to attempt to find their remains ( if I can get land owner ok) and have them properly honored if I can




Unselfish and honorable.  Kudos.      HHHH

just bits of info bouncing about --  however jones road does connect down a the road a bit with the current "rails to trails" bike / hiking path -- that bike / hiking path was laid down on the old civil war era railroad bed that ran from baldwin to jacksonville * --a well known and documented * retreat route that union forces took while returnibg from olustee *** it is possibvle that union forces retreating down the track as stragglers were caught up with by confederate calvary --and fled up jones road trying to get away from them. --- I have phyiscally went to the intersection of jones road and where the old rail bed was -they do connect .-- I'm thinking that it MIGHT be the route they took while fleeing. 

As far as documentation goes....My main interest is in the Seminole Wars, and in my research, I have found a couple of period maps that show a reboubt, that was later indicated as a battle, just about three miles from my house.  I have been able to find ZERO documentation on any of it!  And I have about thirty books (period and modern) and twenty cd's full of research.

I don't know how the Official Records were recorded....Just the Union's version, or later, through interviews with Confederates?

at the battle of olustee  web sight --the story as told by a actual person who took part in the battle * lawrance jackson * -- part of the confederate calvary forces -- states that he came upon to the town of baldwin which was set afire by retreating black union troops that had left in wagons about 1/2 hour earlier anmd thatthey chased to catch them and did so --in his account the union soldier surrendered and the confedrates had a fine meal using the goods in the wagon at "harts" farm ( althought the dates are a bit fuzzty in the old mans mind --since the story was recorded a few weeks before he died in 1929 (65 years after the events took place) --it is the story its self that is of the main interest --it shows that some of the leading confederate calvary troops did in fact catch up with the rear units of the union forces as they withdraw form baldwin topwards jacksonville on the rail road line -- thus help to support my postion in this matter --who better to know than those who were there as to what really occurred?

letter dated of march 3rd .1864 by a.j. clement  Co. D independant battalion mass calvary -- on march 1st a man was killed (shot in the head ) during skirmishing at 10 mile station on the highway between jaclsonville and baldwin -

there was constant "small unit" type  fighting , before , during and after the run up to olustee --- around the baldwin to jacklsonville area --as this was a hotly contested area always -- the rebels sought to keep the yankees bottled up in jacksonville  and the yankees sought to do search and take or destroy raids upon the rebels forces and places where supplies were stored.

 Ivan ,
  The largest action during CW in my area was by "Grumble" Jones and gets few sentences in any journal . Little is said about how he stole
a thousand horses and fifteen hundred cattle from our impoverished region and drove them back through the mountains eastward for the benefit of R.E. Lee ......
 Much less is documented of the pillaging his troops perpetrated in the region while stealing the livestock and the people they killed .
 I hope you continue your quest and will help if I can .
 Jim

you very miss the very point I'm trying to make *--which is very simple -- the union forces fleeing from the rebel troops at olustee (which was a very bad defeat) did so by marching thru out the night and the retreat was somewhat disorganized --- when the union troops got into baldwin they looted all the supplies they could from the town (which was well known to be southern freindly at the time )--and they set fiye to the rail road buildings and known southern supporters homes and bussiness as they left town (standard operating policy in these parts)

most of the confederate calvary did not chase after the union troops  right after the battle since night was falling -- and telegraph wires had been strung up in the woods as booty traps -- in the darkness it was hard to tell freind from foes ( thus a "freindly" fire type event could happen)-- and they feared ambushes from rear guard units of the union forces protecting the rear

only a couple of companys of calvary were dispatched * "to strike a favorible blow whenever possible"-- the vast majority of the confederate calvary  thus missed a chance to strike a telling blow to the retreating union forces --(  A MAJOR BLUNDER FOR WHICH THERE WAS A LOT OF LOOKING INTO DONE)

the retreating union forces retired down the rail line running from baldwin toward  jacksonville --its known today as "the rails to trails" bike way / hiking trail --the old rail bed was pulled up and paved over .  but the route is well known and thus easy to "follow"--

 the following morning after the battle of olustee was over --- the confederate calvary leaders were read the "riot" act by finegan and told to get after the union forces, from the personal account of  lawrance jackson --it appears some of the confederate calvary forces did indeed catch up with the rear guard units or stragglers as they were fleeing towards jacksonville * ( in his "personal" account (he was there after all)--the union soldiers surrendered and the rebels had a fine breakfast from supplies in the union wagon at harts farm -- a few miles outside of jacksonville )--it is not unreasonible in my veiw to think that fast moving calvary units -- could catch up with tired foot soldiers that had been marched all night after a rough battle 

as far as records go please think carefully -- if a small union unit of black soldiers became "detached" from the main body of the union army army upon them leaving the battlefeild of olustee ( they they were "stragglers" and they were later caught up with by confederate forces and wiped totally out  ---who in the main army would "know" of it -- since they had lost all contact and no one lived to "report" what occured.

like a ship going down with all hands --there is no one left to tell the tale of what happened;

except the rebel calvarymen who wiped the black soldiers out and burnt the bodies afterwards that is -- not a "pround" moment in southern history -- so its unlikely to be recorded .by the doers
mai li was most likely not "well recorded" at the time until some one told of what occured --then it was very well recorded .indeed.   

[not a "pround" moment in southern history -- so its unlikely to be recorded .by the doersmai li was most likely not "well recorded" at the time until some one told of what occured -]

you very miss the very point I'm trying to make *--which is very simple -- the union forces fleeing from the rebel troops at olustee (which was a very bad defeat) did so by marching thru out the night and the retreat was somewhat disorganized --- when the union troops got into baldwin they looted all the supplies they could from the town (which was well known to be southern freindly at the time )--and they set fiye to the rail road buildings and known southern supporters homes and bussiness as they left town (standard operating policy in these parts)

most of the confederate calvary did not chase after the union troops  right after the battle since night was falling -- and telegraph wires had been strung up in the woods as booty traps -- in the darkness it was hard to tell freind from foes ( thus a "freindly" fire type event could happen)-- and they feared ambushes from rear guard units of the union forces protecting the rear

only a couple of companys of calvary were dispatched * "to strike a favorible blow whenever possible"-- the vast majority of the confederate calvary  thus missed a chance to strike a telling blow to the retreating union forces --(  A MAJOR BLUNDER FOR WHICH THERE WAS A LOT OF LOOKING INTO DONE)

the retreating union forces retired down the rail line running from baldwin toward  jacksonville --its known today as "the rails to trails" bike way / hiking trail --the old rail bed was pulled up and paved over .  but the route is well known and thus easy to "follow"--

 the following morning after the battle of olustee was over --- the confederate calvary leaders were read the "riot" act by finegan and told to get after the union forces, from the personal account of  lawrance jackson --it appears some of the confederate calvary forces did indeed catch up with the rear guard units or stragglers as they were fleeing towards jacksonville * ( in his "personal" account (he was there after all)--the union soldiers surrendered and the rebels had a fine breakfast from supplies in the union wagon at harts farm -- a few miles outside of jacksonville )--it is not unreasonible in my veiw to think that fast moving calvary units -- could catch up with tired foot soldiers that had been marched all night after a rough battle 

as far as records go please think carefully -- if a small union unit of black soldiers became "detached" from the main body of the union army army upon them leaving the battlefeild of olustee ( they they were "stragglers" and they were later caught up with by confederate forces and wiped totally out  ---who in the main army would "know" of it -- since they had lost all contact and no one lived to "report" what occured.

like a ship going down with all hands --there is no one left to tell the tale of what happened;

except the rebel calvarymen who wiped the black soldiers out and burnt the bodies afterwards that is -- not a "pround" moment in southern history -- so its unlikely to be recorded .by the doers
mai li was most likely not "well recorded" at the time until some one told of what occured --then it was very well recorded .indeed.   

"except the rebel calvarymen who wiped the black soldiers out and burnt the bodies afterwards that is -- not a "pround" moment in southern history -- so its unlikely to be recorded .by the doers
mai li was most likely not "well recorded" at the time until some one told of what occured --then it was very well recorded indeed."   

This is a pretty condemning statement to make when based only on conjecture and 150-years after the fact hearsay, not known facts.

no just saying that the burning of the bodies would be a very good reason not to record the event in the "normal" battle report type mode -- bad things done out of spite or hate are seldom recorded by those doing the deed -- to the southern calvary mens credit --according to the tale they DID offer to allow the black union soldiers a chance to surrender safely upon the rebel troopers word of honor --not given likely in those days --the black infantry troopers reply  deeply insulted the calvary men --saying your word of honor is worthless to us , we shall not SURRENDER------SO BE IT --SAID THE CALVARY MEN --  wiping them out -- for the insult to their honor they burnt the bodies rather than bury them as would be normally done. ---- at the time most southerners viewed union black soldiers  merely as revolting southern slaves dressed in union uniforms and treated them accordingly .

the area around the spot  this action is reported to have occured at is on the "Higginborham / Higgenbotham" farm along "jones" road *-- look on the confederate roster of company B of the florida 1st calvary in the civil war -- the "Jones" and the "Higgenbothams" are both listed as being in the unit ( parts of the Braddock family as well)-- thus if there these " union troops" were in the area they were in very "unfreindly territory" indeed--- this was not in main downtown jacksonville area were the pro union folks lived --this was the pro southern surrounding country side.

camp milton was a confederate camp at the time

swt -- stop and think for a minute --you say 1 officer and  30 to 50 men could not possibly  be "missing " and thus unaccounted for --- but according to the all important "records" of the union 506 of their were "missing" in action
 ---now granted a good bit of the "missing in action"  were in fact "prisoners"  taken by the rebels --- but until the union commanders were told by the rebel commanders that they were indeed "captured" and taken  X amount of people prisoner --the union  commanders had no clue of what really became of their troops now did they ? --they had no way of knowing if they were dead , prisoner or what until they were told by the confederate side--- now just for the sake of arguement ---**** what if a horrible deed had occured say they  just marched off and shot say 30 to 50  black soldiers and buried the bodies after the barrle of olustee *** do you think the southerners would have been foolish enough to have recorded it being done ? -- and so the southern folks fearing counter measures would cover it up by just not reporting upon them at all (they would have just "dissappeared" into the gray fog of battle)-- how would the union commanders know about to record it? and of course the rebels surely would not have recorded it happening-- since it would be a war crime after all -- some things due to their highly ugly nature just were not "offically" recorded nicely like normal events were in my view.

if the two sides offical records "account for everyone so tightly" --where are the "missing men" ---since  the numbers reported as taken prisoner and dead &  buried by the confederates  vs the number of known dead and mia by union forces leaves a very large gap of true MIA men

I 'm just trying to find some of the honestly MIA men from the battle of olustee or possibly around that rough general time frame  , a old "deep dark family tale  was told to me that has enough elements of historically valid people who lived in the area at the time of the civil war to be possible in my veiw--that could account for some of those missing men from olustee -- agreed its  a odd and ugly story told by a older male family member who is by blood related to several former confederate calvarymen (so he is highly unlikely to want to smear the rebel cause troops honor without good reason --since the family is proud of the family's past military service with the south ) plus its said that the "event" occured upon their old family homestread during the civil war -- it might not have been a whole unit as such but a mixed lot of say 30 to 50 various stragglers in the tail of the column -- while I got a rough ideal of the area where things were supposed to have occured --and have been there in person--(most of the area is still farm land thankfully it seems -- the area is vast and without loand deeds to show which spot belonged to who -- its a near impossible task -- I'm hoping that the eldest member of the family can be of some help in knowing just which bit of land was the families "horse" farm  at the time .

I speak ill of no one -- I do not judge the past actions of the southern troops--   according to the story as told to me ----safe terms of surrender were offered by the southern force to the union troops and were rejected by the union troops in a highly insulting method -- so if the southerners got a enemy force "pinned in" that refuses to surrender they are forced to wipe em out --no choice in the matter really -- and the act of insullting the rebel troopers "word of honor" and most likely harming or killing some of the rebels - in what they would view as  the "needless"  fighting that occured after terms were already offered --thus causing needless bloodshed in the veiw of the rebels which would most likely have enraged them -- leading to the burning of the already dead bodies -- in spite .

I can see some rather odd and somewhat twisted logic in your reply * knowing the times --losing a batch of badly needed horses to black union troopers would be rather "embarassing" to the southern soldiers (agreed ) so a revenge tale as as a sort of cover story for the shame was "brewed" up to "cover the loss"--- if some one brought up the "lost horses" the talk was shifted to the tale of the  "dead union soldiers" is your veiw point -- ok I can deal with you thinking that.

Ivan...any news or information from the county historians (for example)?  Often this stuff is buried in a "box in the back" and a few others have heard the rumors, or read about it someplace. 

Have you been back to chat with the guy who told you in the first place to learn more of clearify?

well theres a ray of possible hope * --seems that elijah higginbotham born 1790 --died in  June 4th 1868 in nassau county ,florida leaving his land holdings to his wife who he married in gorgia in 1810  (the former anna hodges) who when she died on July 11th,1874  --in her will stated  the land was to be spilt equally amoung the hiers .--- source --the will of Anna Hodges Higginbotham *

jean mizell --- daughter of helen hodges *  (thus kin to anna hodges down the line by blood) now to hunt down the will and see if it spells out the land areas!!

some of the jones and the higginbotham were married together ( the  family history notes that fact) ---seems both families were quite close * --- the civil war unit rosters of 1st florida calvary  company "B" list Bourbon S , James H and Madison HIGGENBOTHAM (  note it should be HIGGINBOTHOM *) as these men were the brothers of Elijah Higginbotham . ---Madison was wounded at chickamauga * according to the records and family history as well.

there were also 7 jones listed as well * in company "B"

 you are correct that the original Elijah Higginbotham spanish grant was along the st marys river * however there could have been some of his horse on the jones land or he might have bought or leased a bit of land from them at a later date  ( with the area being named "jones road " --most likely the "jones" were the original land grant or major land owner in the area)

Ivan - 

How am I suppossed to read " * ". 

Is that a pause?

 * as a pause or when I pointing out something of importance --- kinda of a quirk I got to high light the important items

* as a pause or when I pointing out something of importance --- kinda of a quirk I got to high light the important items

Thanks... gotcha.   

Hi Ivan
Have enjoyed reading yours and everyone Else's research. I have a couple questions for you and some ideas you may want to investigate.
From the many scattered engagements we research in my area it is plausible that the remains were buried in a mass grave.It is not uncommon for the general population to bury the dead after such massacres. We have many graves marked like:  unknown 21 confederate soldiers and everyone buried in a mass grave. If the bodies were burned then I am sure that's were they are. Your intentions seem good so I would recommend using a grave probe. Also see what google earth shows. It may have only been marked by a pile of stones. Even that could be gone now though. Find the fire and the grave will be close by.
I am sure you are looking for burnt charcoal and metal detecting for signs of engagement.
 Its true thousands of men just disappeared into the darkness to find their way home and many were also buried along creeks and rail roads. Some locals were putting in a garden not long ago and hit a shallow burial of a soldier on Missionary ridge.
 A grave of 21 soldiers unburned still has a hump on it today. Burned probably  not but a probe will show the hollow disturbed soil.
 Good luck sound like a lot of lead to be found in the area.
TnMountains

I'm working on it - however its a very tough nut to crack this one , but it will be well worth the effort if found . -- nothing of importance comes easy it seems.

Good Luck Ivan,

I wish you every success in this important quest.

GG~

just taking a breath ---  now the "*0" is to note something of importance -- it a sort of short hand I use --didn't stop to think other folks don't get it 

stalled right now --got to find and talk to some very old folks that might have some old family records --wills and land deeds --that could norrow the exact site down -- this type of research is a lot of work --but if true well worth the effort .