the amazing randi

  I have just now accepted the million dollar challenge from Randy,,, though I have done this twice in the past,, and got no response at all from him,,,, I thought that maybe if I posted here,,, he would see it and  get my money ready for me,,,  I want a big crowd with media, too,, so they cant leave by the back door when its time to pay up,,, Im from the big city but live in the woods,,so their wont be any shenanigans without me paying notice to it,,,,, this looks like its too good to be true . so it probably is..... but what the heck,,, Ill give it my best effort anyway just in case,,,, besides,, if this million dollar thing is a hoax, I can get a lot of mileage out of exposing a crackpot ,,, so here it is,,, Youre on Randi!    Get your self and your folks down here and prepare to be amazed,,, and dont forget that prize money!

Ha!

Good luck, I hope he accepts and you have the chance to give it a go...

Did you submit the challenge at his website?

 I went to his website on two occasions, and left pertinent info on both occasions,,, all for nought. Thats when I first suspected that the Randi people might be full of soup.BUT. I still need a million to get the kids through school,, so we'll see if they want give me a try,,,,, ! Heres hopin!

Hopefully we see your name posted here eventually... http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

1)date of April 1   is very telling
2)application has changed
3)those who may apply ? wth?
4)test protocol??
  5)this guy has written this thing with a lawyers help to confuse everyone.
6)and he doesnt want anyone to be embarrassed?
 7)BALDERDASH!
8)Too much monkey business.
 An application my eye. 
Prove you have the money and I will prove the ability I possess,,
Just another case of the classic..
"The Large Print Giveth, But The Small Print Taketh Away"
    Meet my terms and Ill do it half a million. Yes I went to the same website before to see if the Amazin Randie was on the up and up,,,, I am waiting for a personal message from "Captain Trips" to see if they can get their challenge to stand up to my response."Half Price"!!  Come an get it Cappy!!! Baby needs a new pair of shoes!!!   7 come 11! Snooze and lose pilgrim!

Good luck. I hope you give 'em hell and come back home a whole lot richer! 

Prove you have the money and I will prove the ability I possess,,
 

The proof is on the website for all to see, as of March 31, 2009 over
1.148 million dollars on account with Goldman Sachs
They won't be leaving out the back door, they would love to see proof
as much as anyone,  they just won't be hornswaggled.
I don't think JREF has to prove they have the money to you or anyone!
You are the one claiming to have these abilities,  balls in your court.
No one has ever passed their preliminary test, surely you can do that.
They come to you to perform it.  You might want to polish up your list of
excuses though, those above are run of the mill.

This topic ran quickly... no substance I guess.   

This topic ran quickly... no substance I guess.   

amazing 

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof."  Randi's claim of having a million dollars in escrow is not extraordinary, and as such he has given extraordinary proof of it anyway.  Dowsing IS an extraordinary claim, and therefore does require extraordinary proof.

Randi does require a challenge to follow strict scientific controls.  He also allows the claimant to start the process of defining the testing conditions, but he makes suggestions to make sure it does follow the scientific method.  Double blind setups, etc.

The application process did change a couple of years ago, as so many people were filing ludicrous claims and refused to work with him in setting up control protocols.  Now the challenge is restricted to those that have had some level of publicity for their claims.  If you can get a local newspaper to publish your claims, though, then you qualify.

Give it a try, the money is real -- but before you do, make sure your preferred testing method can be set up as a double-blind experiment.  (Example -- someone unknown to you places 5 coins spread out in 10 paper bags, then leaves the room.  Then you come in with an objective observer, neither you nor him having seen where the coins were placed.  If you can find which bags have the coins by dowsing, then you have succeeded a scientific, double-blind experiment.  Next, go to 5 out of 100, etc.)  (Double-blind meaning that you are blind to the setup, and the person doing the setup is blind to your attempt.)

If you can pass the experiment I suggested above, then definitely go after the million!

You have rehashed this topic before. This is merely a repeat. Why?

The Amazing Randi, is the amazing liar. You can tell him that is what Dell, says about him, and I speak from personal experience with the man.   Dell

Theres a reason nobody has taken his loot! it aint soundin right by me. good luck.

I have been to Randi's website several time's and found out the people in there try to play down dowsing as crackpot's or  wackjob's!! I thought very sad they are very closed minded on that website and for the milliondollar contest smell's like dead fish sitting  out in the sun!!I had somone on this website ask me to locate a gold coin there kid has hidden what's the point  they know where's the gold is?

The Amazing Randi should be called Dandy Randi with all the attention he is getting.

Whether Randi is straight up or a scoundrel doesn't really matter. He's got his books, personal appearances etc. So either way he makes a good living. Haven't been to his site in a couple years, but my take was they could always bend things to invalidate any claims made for anything. It's sad to see so many closed minded people. The first time I went to the JREF site I asked the same question I've been asking skeptics for years "Why doesn't it (fill in the blank) work? Can you prove beyond a doubt it (fill in the blank) doesn't work beyond a shadow of a doubt? Needless to say I never got a reply to my question. Not even a sit down & shut up reply back.

A Self-Confessed Liar
To be fair, he has never claimed to be anything other than a showman, best expressed by his own remark,
'I am a charlatan, a liar, a thief and a fake altogether.'
http://www.skepticalinvestigations.org/controversies/Auerbach_Randi.htm
http://www.skepticalinvestigations.org/exam/Dace_amazing3.htm
http://www.cfpf.org.uk/articles/background/nicholls.html
http://www.valentino-salvato.net/astrology/pdf/CSICOP.pdf

http://www.tricksterbook.com/ArticlesOnline/DeceptionBySubjects.html
http://www.tricksterbook.com/ArticlesOnline/Dowsing.htm

http://www.cas.lancs.ac.uk/glossary_v1.1/dexanova.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_significance

http://skepdic.com/control.html
http://www.vrg.org/journal/vj99jul/99julcritical.htm
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20040228/fob2.asp

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20040228/mathtrek.asp

http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRA/v33/i1/p576_1

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20030927/mathtrek.asp

Up until a few days ago, I didn't even know who this guy "Randi" was. I had seen mention of him in other threads but didn't know anything about him. I have spent the last few days reading all I could find about him (his reputation, the challenge, etc.).

This guy has gotta be one of the FLAKIEST people out there. What a scam artist.

"Amazing" indeed.  

What's amazing is that anybody in their right mind pays attention to anything this guy says or does.

Up until a few days ago, I didn't even know who this guy "Randi" was. I had seen mention of him in other threads but didn't know anything about him. I have spent the last few days reading all I could find about him (his reputation, the challenge, etc.).

This guy has gotta be one of the FLAKIEST people out there. What a scam artist.

"Amazing" indeed.  

What's amazing is that anybody in their right mind pays attention to anything this guy says or does.

What is the scam portion, Eddie?

Up until a few days ago, I didn't even know who this guy "Randi" was. I had seen mention of him in other threads but didn't know anything about him. I have spent the last few days reading all I could find about him (his reputation, the challenge, etc.).

This guy has gotta be one of the FLAKIEST people out there. What a scam artist.

"Amazing" indeed.  

What's amazing is that anybody in their right mind pays attention to anything this guy says or does.

What is the scam portion, Eddie?

Pretty much all of it, SWR. He rants on like a sullen child.....and charges people money to hear his asinine babble....I would like to go see him though. I think it would be interesting to see someone with vocal cords in their posterior....

Hey Eddie…I think that Randi may be the greatest Magician of all times…He has hypnotized thousands of people into making him rich and following his occult like believes like a bunch of zombies…Art   

Years ago on a trip to Miami, I made a side visit to JREF. Randi & I chatted for about 2 hrs, mostly about dowsing. He's an exceptionally nice guy who didn't hesitate to give me his time. I later saw one of his public anti-pseudoscience presentations at UVA. He demonstrated, right in front of a packed auditorium, that he could bend spoons, stop watches, and read minds with the best of them. Even did a bit of psychic surgery. Quite a show.

As an accomplished magician, Randi knows all the insider secrets that many frauds try to use, and he's really good at exposing them. As such, he's made a lot of enemies who do what they can to personally attack him. Just read these forums for examples. Same thing happens with me; I expose the dirty secrets of LRLs and I get personal attacks in return.

Yes, if you get a chance, try to see Randi in person. You may change your mind about him. At the very least, your opinion of him won't be based on what someone else tells you to believe about him.

Years ago on a trip to Miami, I made a side visit to JREF. Randi & I chatted for about 2 hrs, mostly about dowsing. He's an exceptionally nice guy who didn't hesitate to give me his time. I later saw one of his public anti-pseudoscience presentations at UVA. He demonstrated, right in front of a packed auditorium, that he could bend spoons, stop watches, and read minds with the best of them. Even did a bit of psychic surgery. Quite a show.

As an accomplished magician, Randi knows all the insider secrets that many frauds try to use, and he's really good at exposing them. As such, he's made a lot of enemies who do what they can to personally attack him. Just read these forums for examples. Same thing happens with me; I expose the dirty secrets of LRLs and I get personal attacks in return.

Yup, kind of goes with the job. Anyone who outwardly exposes the frauds will eventually wind up being attacked by the fraudulent. (After all, we are cutting into their bottom line... if we weren't they wouldn't waste so much time and energy trying to silence us.)   

It may be that in over 20 years not one person has taken Randi’s challenge test…But…There have been many info-commercial showing these tests being preformed….just to get donations to his group which means HIM…Art

He demonstrated, right in front of a packed auditorium, that he could bend spoons, stop watches, and read minds with the best of them.

Actually what he did was cheap tricks of Uri Geller's renditions of a true power. I personally know people who do this and much, much more and they are no tricks at all.
Also if Uri Geller is a scammer too, you better go right now tell this to the oil companies who had in a plane for oil location from the air trough his powers. Certainly the oil location and the money they made later drilling, were all scams too.

Even did a bit of psychic surgery. Quite a show.

Did you personally witness him actually curing someone? Did you?

Errr... I could not enphasize enough how stupid, naive, gullible I would be if I was the one who was watching all this from him and 'thinkin' about it as a show.

As an accomplished magician, Randi knows all the insider secrets that many frauds try to use, and he's really good at exposing them. As such, he's made a lot of enemies who do what they can to personally attack him. Just read these forums for examples.

No, it's just the opposite. As a scam artist and cheap tricks performer he made a lot of money having people think the true gifts from some people were tricks he could replicate.

Same thing happens with me; I expose the dirty secrets of LRLs and I get personal attacks in return.

Ha,ha,ha... I knew you were a secret fan of him. This gives Dell all the reason to expose where your agenda comes from.

Yes, if you get a chance, try to see Randi in person. You may change your mind about him.

Well, I certainly would change my mind about myself.
I would wonder where my comon sense was if I decided to do it.
But I certainly would love to meet Chris Angel.
Who outpowers him by the power of ten.

He demonstrated, right in front of a packed auditorium, that he could bend spoons, stop watches, and read minds with the best of them.

Actually what he did was cheap tricks of Uri Geller's renditions of a true power. I personally know people who do this and much, much more and they are no tricks at all.
Also if Uri Geller is a scammer too, you better go right now tell this to the oil companies who had in a plane for oil location from the air trough his powers. Certainly the oil location and the money they made later drilling, were all scams too.

Even did a bit of psychic surgery. Quite a show.

Did you personally witness him actually curing someone? Did you?

Errr... I could not enphasize enough how stupid, naive, gullible I would be if I was the one who was watching all this from him and 'thinkin' about it as a show.

As an accomplished magician, Randi knows all the insider secrets that many frauds try to use, and he's really good at exposing them. As such, he's made a lot of enemies who do what they can to personally attack him. Just read these forums for examples.

No, it's just the opposite. As a scam artist and cheap tricks performer he made a lot of money having people think the true gifts from some people were tricks he could replicate.

Same thing happens with me; I expose the dirty secrets of LRLs and I get personal attacks in return.

Ha,ha,ha... I knew you were a secret fan of him. This gives Dell all the reason to expose where your agenda comes from.

Yes, if you get a chance, try to see Randi in person. You may change your mind about him.

Well, I certainly would change my mind about myself.
I would wonder where my comon sense was if I decided to do it.
But I certainly would love to meet Chris Angel.
Who outpowers him by the power of ten.

Well, Hung, can you bend spoons too, with just your mind power?  Or, do you call upon little Spoon Ions rising up out of the ground?   

 

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randi................your the fake......million dollars to prove your full of it ,i can prove you are

Randi is a good Magician…He has managed to hypnotize millions of people  into thinking he is a genius.  He has programmed them to follow his ever thoughts…They have paid all his bills and has made him a rich man….He dangles that million dollar challenge in front of these people who will cream in their jeans. He makes info-commercial showing him beating up on a dowser…When he puts these things on TV the donations pours into to his own private charity. In over twenty years not one person has taken Randi’s test…..Art

Good morning  AA:  When I was investigating the paranormal, I naturally included dowsing.  In one of my personal tests I had my wife hide my wedding ring in a room while I was outside.  When she called out ¨ok¨, I returned and attempted to locate the ring.  I was successful 9 times out of 10, so in my mind I was  ´successfully dowsing´.  If Telepathy between my Wife and I was at work,  that also qualifies for  Randi´s $ 1,000,000.

However, I would never consider taking the test, since so many extremely powerful, negative psychological factors would weigh so heavily for failure that it is a forgone conclusion.  They are well aware of this and also make the preliminary tests  so vague on precise interpretation that they can disqualify anyone that shows a `possibility´ of being successful.

Don Jose de La Mancha

...and also make the preliminary tests  so vague on precise interpretation that they can disqualify anyone that shows a `possibility´ of being successful.

Actually, the tests are designed so that the results don't have to be interpreted. It's a hard line; you either did it, or you didn't. This is all written into a contract and agreed to by both sides beforehand.

I try to design my own tests the same way. I use discrete trials with discrete locations. You either hit the target or you don't, there is no "close". You either do it (ferinstance) 5-out-of-10 times (or more) or you don't. No vaguity, no interpretation.

Yes, Randi has tested dowsers, many times.

Evening Carl  :  I have seen successful dowsing, and have several successful examples of map dowsing on Tayopa done by a dowser in Alaska, in which he is approximately 80% correct.   I also have successfully done it myself in a few tests, so despite what Randi may come up with, dowsing does exist.   

 Unfortunately, while we all have the  basic ability to be star baseball players only a few actually accomplish this, the same applies to dowsing.   The prob. is that many untrained  dowsers, after achieving a success a few times, consider themselves accomplished dowsers and try Randi´s tests, which they will invariably fail from lack of full self confidence.  Being tested amid a group of so called scientists, who are openly scornful  of the dowser, creates a bit of an inferiority complex which creates strong doubt in the applicant´s mind,  and he ´will´ fail.   

¿May I suggest the egg dowsers in Japan ?  If they aren´t consistently successful they are soon out of work.

Don Jose de La Mancha

Unfortunately, while we all have the  basic ability to be star baseball players only a few actually accomplish this, the same applies to dowsing.   The prob. is that many untrained  dowsers, after achieving a success a few times, consider themselves accomplished dowsers and try Randi´s tests, which they will invariably fail from lack of full self confidence.

Maybe. But in your prior post you blamed their failure on Randi for creating vague and impossible tests. This is not the case. Don't blame Randi because people who think they can dowse can't do it when a skeptic is watching.

I've personally tested a number of dowsers who swore they could do it, and do it easily. I always approach the tests in a very non-confrontational way, bending over backward to ensure the dowser is relaxed and comfortable. No hurry, take your time. We usually start with full-view trials where they succeed, before moving on to blind trials. Where they always fail.

Regardless of who runs the tests, dowsers consistently fail when the tests follow scientific double-blind protocol.

Unfortunately, while we all have the  basic ability to be star baseball players only a few actually accomplish this, the same applies to dowsing.   The prob. is that many untrained  dowsers, after achieving a success a few times, consider themselves accomplished dowsers and try Randi´s tests, which they will invariably fail from lack of full self confidence.

Maybe. But in your prior post you blamed their failure on Randi for creating vague and impossible tests. This is not the case. Don't blame Randi because people who think they can dowse can't do it when a skeptic is watching.

I've personally tested a number of dowsers who swore they could do it, and do it easily. I always approach the tests in a very non-confrontational way, bending over backward to ensure the dowser is relaxed and comfortable. No hurry, take your time. We usually start with full-view trials where they succeed, before moving on to blind trials. Where they always fail.

Regardless of who runs the tests, dowsers consistently fail when the tests follow scientific double-blind protocol.

Carl, did you personally witness Randi curing anybody in his psychic surgery?

Unfortunately, while we all have the  basic ability to be star baseball players only a few actually accomplish this, the same applies to dowsing.   The prob. is that many untrained  dowsers, after achieving a success a few times, consider themselves accomplished dowsers and try Randi´s tests, which they will invariably fail from lack of full self confidence.

Maybe. But in your prior post you blamed their failure on Randi for creating vague and impossible tests. This is not the case. Don't blame Randi because people who think they can dowse can't do it when a skeptic is watching.

I've personally tested a number of dowsers who swore they could do it, and do it easily. I always approach the tests in a very non-confrontational way, bending over backward to ensure the dowser is relaxed and comfortable. No hurry, take your time. We usually start with full-view trials where they succeed, before moving on to blind trials. Where they always fail.

Regardless of who runs the tests, dowsers consistently fail when the tests follow scientific double-blind protocol.

Carl, why do you post this BS on a Treasure Forum.  Your stupid tests have no relevancy to Treasure Hunting, whatsoever, and is nothing more than a deceptive promotion gimmick to call attention to your self.

It's not even rational, or logical thinking when it comes to  applying your gimmick challenge to Treasure Hunting.  Get Real, and stop trying to hoodwink Treasure Hunters into believing something that is not true.  Dell

You have many valid points Carl.  However no-one successfully dowses  consistently or even most of the time, on the contrary.

Unfortunately most dowsers have an incorrect idea as to why & how it works, or to their personal abilities, some go to extremes to attempt explain it, when it really is so simple.  It is aparently a talent that has been with man since recorded history.  It may have been a  necessary survival feature then, but today it is not active unless brought out by training or exposure to it being utilized.

No-one can explain away my finding the wedding ring 9 times out of 10 to me , not even you, whose opinion I value.  It happened !

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. ¿ I wonder how many try out for positions in the baseball, leagues, for those few that are selected for further intensive training?   In my USAF Aviation Cadet class in the 50's, there were approximately  2500 applicants, yet only 25 of us were chosen.  Does that mean that the others were without equal Pilot / Officer Qualities, or was a bit of luck involved and gradually decreasing qualifications?  So it goes with dowsers.  Very few have fairly consistent  abilities, none  100% of the time.

Don Jose de La Mancha

You have many valid points Carl.  However no-one successfully dowses  consistently or even most of the time, on the contrary.

Oddly, many dowsers (esp water dowsers) claim they are successful 100% of the time.

p.s. ¿ I wonder how many try out for positions in the baseball, leagues, for those few that are selected for further intensive training?   In my USAF Aviation Cadet class in the 50's, there were approximately  2500 applicants, yet only 25 of us were chosen.  Does that mean that the others were without equal Pilot / Officer Qualities, or was a bit of luck involved and gradually decreasing qualifications?  So it goes with dowsers.  Very few have fairly consistent  abilities, none  100% of the time.

Although skill plays the biggest role in these cases, I'm sure a few "luck" out.

An interesting dowsing experiment was Betz's "Sheunen" tests. He started with ~500 experienced dowsers and ran them through a pretty good double-blind test. 43 did better than chance, so he re-tested those. In round 2, a very few did better than chance, so he re-tested those. And they failed to exceed chance. Did these dowsers proceed through the tests due to skill or chance? If you look at the design of the test, statistics predicts a Gaussian distribution that results in a percentage that perform better than some threshold, if chance is at work. And that was exactly the outcome. This is why we do repeated tests, to separate skill from luck.

Self-testing is notoriously difficult to do and fraught with unintentional pitfalls. However, I'm working on an MFD design that may change the mind of even the most staunch LRL proponent. Actually, I doubt it, but it is a good way to do self-tests.

Carl, did you personally witness Randi curing anybody in his psychic surgery?

I see you have silenced at my question, so I will assume your silence as a 'No' answer.

In this case, whatever Randi was 'performing' as 'psychic surgery' was just 'theatrics' and from the worst type. So it was a hoax. A fraud.
Since this was a fraud, everything you say he can replicate as being a trick from people who can demonstrate phenomena of gifts inherent to themselves are just cheap tricks executed by Randi trying to twist true ones.

So this pretty much summarizes what Randi has been doing all those years.
Thanks for your silence. Many times silence tells a lot.

Carl my  friend, I can find no basic flaw in your reasoning except you seem to expect that the dowsers themselves consider themselves as judges as how ready and competent performers they may be.  With my 90%  hits, I certainly would not want to take a serious test.  Preconditioning from childhood would almost guarantee a boo boo.    I personally put them at about 40 - 50 % under optimum conditions.  A test is NOT one of them.  I imagine that all applicants for the little league teams consider themselves as top star materiel, until.....

To another point   ¨not luck, but SUCCESS with your project¨ You have the ability and training.  I rather believe that many do not consider your project as viable. claiming that if it were, it would have been done long ago by one of the many other competent engr´s working on the same problem.

Don Jose de La Mancha

Carl, did you personally witness Randi curing anybody in his psychic surgery?

I see you have silenced at my question, so I will assume your silence as a 'No' answer.

My silence was because I considered such a ludicrous question unworthy of any of my time. "Psychic surgery" is a scam of the most heinous kind. It is a scam in which people often die. It is a scam in which the perpetrator is among the lowest of all human beings. Intentional malpractice and negligent homicide only begin to describe what these people do.

If you truly believe in psychic surgery, then you are way, way farther out in the ozone than I ever imagined.

Carl, did you personally witness Randi curing anybody in his psychic surgery?

I see you have silenced at my question, so I will assume your silence as a 'No' answer.

My silence was because I considered such a ludicrous question unworthy of any of my time. "Psychic surgery" is a scam of the most heinous kind. It is a scam in which people often die. It is a scam in which the perpetrator is among the lowest of all human beings. Intentional malpractice and negligent homicide only begin to describe what these people do.

If you truly believe in psychic surgery, then you are way, way farther out in the ozone than I ever imagined.

In the 'question for LRL users' thread, Af asked a particular question. I cared to answer him but first I needed to know his scientific view background in order to know who I was dealing with to apply the answer.
My answer to him in that thread could never been so true to you in this particular thread here. Please refer to it so you will know what I am talking about.

In an honest way, it's very hard for me to even start answering your post, facing your total ignorance on the subject and the twisted concept you have about it.

I was one of many who was healed by it. I know many people, this includes some americans and europeans who were healed by it.
Can you imagine how some people felt, being healed after some medical professional opinion discarding cure in their particular case? Can you?

From your words above... 'in which people often die', I can witness that you don't have the SLIGHTEST idea of what you are talking about.

To start with, it's not a matter of 'believing'. It's a matter of knowing about it. You believe in something when you don't have a fact to base on, only possible evidences and this is subjective.
Knowing about it is a completely different matter. It's based on real facts.

Honestly, how can I even start to discuss the science behind it when you simply don't have the basis to support the information? It would be like a 'cooking pan' with no bottom, in which everything throwed into it, would fall off.
In terms of LRL, altough you can't understand and accept it, you have a starting scientific basis, altough lacking of deeper data.
But in the case of 'psychic surgery', you don't have any. No starting point.
Actually the term 'psychic surgery' is wrong. True procedures are not made by who perform them, relatively speaking. They are just the 'interfaces'.

Obviously your answer to my question would be a 'no'. I knew it from the start. You have indirectly answered when you stated in your post that Randi did a psychic surgery 'replication'. This would be impossible as it would be a trick trying to mimic a true phenomena.
That's why I asked if you had seen anybody who had been healed by him.
You will never see him healing  anybody ever with a 'trick'. He only will fool the ones who ignore how the true phenomena applies.

you are way, way farther out in the ozone than I ever imagined.

You probably still have not perceived, but your quote above fits you perfectly, with one exception... Indeed I always imagined that you would ignore this subject and some others due to your profile along the years in your own forum.
You see, with Mike Healely for instance, it would be a lot easier to start a discussion about those matters because he has some background already for this... A starting point.
In your case, none, to even start dealing with. How could I explain to you the yellow color when you only spot green?

Finally and again... There's not even a single element which IS NOT scientific in this subject. You may think this would be related to religion, esoterism, voodoo, etc. This is wrong and it's the reason I told you it's not a matter of belief, but of awareness.
I'm sure Mike Healey found out the things he knows by studying and researching by himself.
You eventually will get to this point.
Sooner or later, as evolution can't be stoped.

Sorry, I haven't been following this thread very carefully as I have all the skeptics on IGNORE and I rarely read the quoted material just for that reason. It appears there is some reference to faith healing or something like laying on of hands, and although there might not be much scientific data available, that doesn't prove it can't or doesn't work. Certainly there is thought energy and many people are able to use it to help others, help get their body in the proper electrical charge sort of like giving a big voltage to a dead battery. If the skeptics don't want to even consider this, I really don't care. It just shows me that they are suffering inside. Of course, most people already know they are crying for help but won't accept any. Like they say, almost all atheists convert on their death bed. 

Of course, most people already know they are crying for help but won't accept any. Like they say, almost all atheists convert on their death bed. 

Wise words.

Many people put science as their god. Science is like a made-made idol. Science and math is not reality as many would want you to believe. Man-made laws sooner or later are all proven to have exceptions. The idea that the ancients were stupid is totally wrong. They knew more about reality than modern day scientists who only believe what they can measure.

Don't get me wrong, I am not anti-science or math. I'm just saying that people who "prostitute the intellect to defend the ego" are sick people. I don't claim to be Snow White--I have been guilty of this in the past a time or two, but not for years and years like a few people around here. 

Many people put science as their god. Science is like a made-made idol. Science and math is not reality as many would want you to believe. Man-made laws sooner or later are all proven to have exceptions. The idea that the ancients were stupid is totally wrong. They knew more about reality than modern day scientists who only believe what they can measure.

What an incredible amount of wisdom. And this coming from someone who didn't even finish high school. 

Got any more tidbits you'd like to share?

Many people put science as their god. Science is like a made-made idol. Science and math is not reality as many would want you to believe. Man-made laws sooner or later are all proven to have exceptions. The idea that the ancients were stupid is totally wrong. They knew more about reality than modern day scientists who only believe what they can measure.

What an incredible amount of wisdom. And this coming from someone who didn't even finish high school. 

Got any more tidbits you'd like to share?

Yes it is a lot of wisdom. Anybody can see it's true (if they don't have their head up their butt  ). And what does high school have to do with anything? 

[It is a scam in which people often die. It is a scam in which the perpetrator is among the lowest of all human beings. Intentional malpractice and negligent homicide only begin to describe what these people do.]

Carl, did you personally witness Randi curing anybody in his psychic surgery?

I see you have silenced at my question, so I will assume your silence as a 'No' answer.

My silence was because I considered such a ludicrous question unworthy of any of my time. "Psychic surgery" is a scam of the most heinous kind. It is a scam in which people often die. It is a scam in which the perpetrator is among the lowest of all human beings. Intentional malpractice and negligent homicide only begin to describe what these people do.

If you truly believe in psychic surgery, then you are way, way farther out in the ozone than I ever imagined.

The above sounds a lot like our current medical establishment. There is more money in treatment than cures.

[An interesting dowsing experiment was Betz's "Sheunen" tests. He started with ~500 experienced dowsers and ran them through a pretty good double-blind test. 43 did better than chance, so he re-tested those. In round 2, a very few did better than chance, so he re-tested those. And they failed to exceed chance. Did these dowsers proceed through the tests due to skill or chance? If you look at the design of the test, statistics predicts a Gaussian distribution that results in a percentage that perform better than some threshold, if chance is at work. And that was exactly the outcome. This is why we do repeated tests, to separate skill from luck.]

You have many valid points Carl.  However no-one successfully dowses  consistently or even most of the time, on the contrary.

Oddly, many dowsers (esp water dowsers) claim they are successful 100% of the time.

p.s. ¿ I wonder how many try out for positions in the baseball, leagues, for those few that are selected for further intensive training?   In my USAF Aviation Cadet class in the 50's, there were approximately  2500 applicants, yet only 25 of us were chosen.  Does that mean that the others were without equal Pilot / Officer Qualities, or was a bit of luck involved and gradually decreasing qualifications?  So it goes with dowsers.  Very few have fairly consistent  abilities, none  100% of the time.

Although skill plays the biggest role in these cases, I'm sure a few "luck" out.

An interesting dowsing experiment was Betz's "Sheunen" tests. He started with ~500 experienced dowsers and ran them through a pretty good double-blind test. 43 did better than chance, so he re-tested those. In round 2, a very few did better than chance, so he re-tested those. And they failed to exceed chance. Did these dowsers proceed through the tests due to skill or chance? If you look at the design of the test, statistics predicts a Gaussian distribution that results in a percentage that perform better than some threshold, if chance is at work. And that was exactly the outcome. This is why we do repeated tests, to separate skill from luck.

Self-testing is notoriously difficult to do and fraught with unintentional pitfalls. However, I'm working on an MFD design that may change the mind of even the most staunch LRL proponent. Actually, I doubt it, but it is a good way to do self-tests.

Actually, that sounds like all that happened was the dowsers were tested over and over until they performed poorly, then were just considered "lucky".

Going by that line of reasoning....Babe Ruth hit a lot of home runs....but he also struck out A LOT. So when he hit a baseball out of the park, over and over, in the direction he indicated, that was just luck, right?   

Actually, that sounds like all that happened was the dowsers were tested over and over until they performed poorly, then were just considered "lucky".

Going by that line of reasoning....Babe Ruth hit a lot of home runs....but he also struck out A LOT. So when he hit a baseball out of the park, over and over, in the direction he indicated, that was just luck, right?

Actually…Randi has never tested any one…That’s right no one has been able to test for the million dollars….Now you ask me why you have saw him on TV testing people….He has made a few Info-commercials to raise money for his foundation..Just fake commercials by fake man and these guys love what he does….Art