My first cache hunt...need advice

   Hello, I need some advice! I started detecting last spring and have found a pile of great stuff, but really want to find a cache. Now I have a good chance to actually find one. I did some minor work for a friendly couple recently (construction is my business), and they are willing to let me hunt their family farm in trade. They also have a couple of other spots that I can have access to. The work I did is only worth a few hundred bucks, so I'm just glad to find a new place with potential to hunt.

   The owner told me that his grandfather remembers HIS grandfather burying cans or jars of coins in the garden on their farm. This would have been 1900-1930 I figure. They have always been interested in finding the cache, even bought a cheap detector years ago, but had no luck. (I don't think they really tried that hard, and the detector sounds like junk). Anyway, they are excited by the possibility of finally finding this mysterious treasure, and are far more interested in the sentimental value rather than the monetary value of the cache.

   I don't know how to work out an agreement. I don't want to find a bunch of good stuff only to hand it ALL over to the family. However, I am willing to give them the cache (should I be lucky enough to find it) because of the family history. I said I would want to photograph it, that's for sure. That being said, I was thinking of adding a condition: I'll hand over the cache if I find it, but I get to keep any other random things I find that aren't directly related to the cache (hopefully other old coins and such).

   Do you think that's fair?

I'd ask for a single coin of your choice just as a souvenir and for your memory.

Coins are money or value not sentimental family things. Ask for a 50/50 split on the money. Don't do your work for free a second time.   Frank

In this case, I would try to get a bit more specific as to the division of significant finds.  The reason is that they have stated that they remember their grandfather burying "cans' or "jars" of coins, note the plurals.  If you find more than one cache, which is certainly possible, I would certainly think that "sentimental value" would have to be linked to something other than just the fact that there is an unmarked can or jar of coins sitting there.  It would have to have something that would connect it to their grandfather...his writing on the mason jar or can, a note inside the can or jar or something like that. So, I would negotiate a point that if a cache is found, they get the first one in its entirety, however, should a second cache be discovered you would get it completely UNLESS it had definitive evidence of sentimental value.  In that event, they could decide to swap the second cache for the first cache.  This could be repeated for multiple caches so that they could keep the ONE cache that had the most sentimental value but you would get the others.  

Also, you might consider putting a clause in there for an "Extraordinary Cache".  This would be any cache with a value of over $500 or $1000 in actual value.  All of these caches would be divided 50/50.  In this event, they could not make it a "Sentimental Selection" because of the significant value of the cache.  The value of this cache would have to be assessed and then if they wanted it for sentimental reasons, they would need to buy out your half of the cache.  So, if there was a cache of gold coins with face value of $100 (5, $20 gold pieces) and it was determined that one of the coins was worth $10,000 just by itself and the whole cache was worth $15,000, they would have to pay you $7,500 to keep the whole cache as a "Sentimental Selection".  Or, you might negotiate for one or two of the lesser value gold coins.

A word of caution...depending on how well you think you know and can trust the landowner, you may want to consider a neutral third party signing off on the agreement as a witness.  If you do not know them well at all you might want to even have that third party present for the "opening" of any cache container.  You will have to decide how important this may be but just be aware that the sight of gold has been known to instantly transform people from rational and sane to irrational and greedy and more than one detectorist who thought they had an agreement was escorted off a property at gunpoint once the gold comes to view.  It is only then that you find out that the agreement is not ironclad but merely a gentleman's agreement written on paper that would require many thousands of dollars to enforce and that with no guarantee of success.

Play the game...or game the play...but don't be stupid...cause there "ain't no cure for stupid".  

I don't know the rules for treasure trove in Canada.

In the US, start with 50/50 split of anything found. Keep in mind that any coins found from the 1900-1930 range could have BIG value due to potential quality of the coins. You have the detector and the expertise to find the cache; they have the property the cache may (or may not) be on. I think I'd want to know more about the original cacher, too. Did he have enough money to hide "cans or jars" of coins? How? While it may be possible money was hidden on the property, it may also be just a family story.

BTW, gardens are popular cache sites. Old-timers would look for an area where it would be common to see ground disurbance and not worry about the neighbors thinking you had just hidden the family silver. Literally.

I too would go for a % of anything found. 1/2, 1/4, it's your choice, but you did do the work for them, so you earned the right to a % of the finds.

Having said that, You have already done the work of a cache hunter, because you located a potential cache spot. Good work, whether you actually find anything or not.

as was said, you already paid once to hunt on their land; so i would insist on a 50/50 split of any caches found plus keep all miscellaneous finds.  If they have looked before and have not found anything they should know that it will be no easy task and be willing to a split. Be sure to get all agreements in writing and have them notarized before commencing. I know in Tennessee any cache is the property of the landowner and a cache huner is simply getting a finders fee, but be sure to research treasure trove laws before you begin.

Be prepared to dig a lot of iron. Good luck!

Unless that garden area has been in continuous garden since 1930, shouldn't be that much iron there. But a can or jar of coins should give you a pretty big hit. Be sure to check near where any chicken houses were too. Notable coin cache found in Southern Oregon was inside the chicken coop, under a considerable amount of chicken poop.

   Wow, thanks for the great responses everybody! I do like the idea of letting them keep a cache, and myself keeping a cache (if there are more than one). If only one cache is found, I would like to pick a coin to keep for myself. And I will insist that I get to keep any miscellaneous coins that I find on the property while I hunt the yard (Finding a cache will be a longshot, but finding random goodies should be easy). I will hunt the obvious suspected cache locations, but will also scan the entire property.

   As for signing an agreement and having it notarized...it makes me a little uncomfortable. I realize that it is necessary to clearly define the agreement so everything is understood, but I will probably find it awkward to bring it up. I guess I do have some time to think it over before I can hunt the yard as there is still 3 feet of DAMN SNOW everywhere.

   How do you seasoned cache hunters bring up this agreement stuff with the landowners? Are people generally agreeable?

Generally...and I use the term in its clearest sense...landowners respond to written agreements better if they know you better.  Of course, this all depends on whether your previous dealings with them have been spotless and with integrity.  I have found them to be much more cooperative if they have a personal belief that there is a cache or other significant treasure on the property.  The more you bring to the table...detectors, experience, professionalism...the more cooperative they are with any written agreement.  The more they sense that you are a serious person and spending your time working there is not something you do lightly or for free...the more they understand the need for a written agreement in the event that a significant cache is discovered.

As with most ventures in life, its all about how well you are able to "sell" yourself.  Confidence and knowledge go a long way.  You have the added advantage of the work credit so this is well beyond a "cold call".  I would think a well written, one page document outlining the agreement, would be sufficient.  My experience trying to get a notarized document has never gone well...even if you have a good relationship with the landowner.  There is just something about notarizing that takes it to a whole 'nother level in people's minds. 

Seems like I might have seen some samples of some detecting agreements on Tnet before...you might do some searching and see if you can turn some examples up.

Best of luck! 

The way I work a 50/50 split is very simple . I really don't want to get anyone else involved. I want to split then and there and ride off into the sunset. No second thoughts, no mine changing!
Here's how I work it. I divide the find into two containers, Trash bags etc.  Then the land owner picks a closed bag and I take the other. This blind pick eliminates the cherry picking and levels the field in his eyes, plus no one else gets involved.     I follow the old logic, keep it simple stupid.     Frank

HERE'S THE WAY i WORK IT! Have an agreement before hand that if there is a jar of coin found , you will both divide it right then and there. You do not ever just hand it over to the property owner!!! there's to good a chance you'll never see it again. What you do is at the time of the find one makes 2 equal piles of the the coins. and the other gets 1'st choice of the piles. then and there. one may have a little more value then the other, but that is the luck of the draw. That way you both have what is your and you can go for the next find. If you have this agreement and you let someone take it away from you, then that's your fault. you must at that time stick to your agreement or guns.

Good advice from Monk & Frank.  Jars of coins tend to settle in soil with each passing year.  I use a two-box cache finder.  A Fisher Gemini lll will detect to 20 feet.  It is the least expensive one I've found.  I wouldn't want to hand dig more than 4 feet however before renting a small backhoe.  Something to think about.

If you check deep enough in the law, you might find that all that is needed is a witness to a verbal agreement. It's been over 20 years since I've read them, but I seem to remember that this is pretty
well covered in the 1872 mining laws.

During the "gold rush" and later, the "Great land rush" in Florida, claims and properties changed hands so quickly that there was no time to draw up the required papers. Hense, the courts found that:

"A verbal agreement is as binding as a written contract." Of course, these days, I would recommend having a witness that the court would determine was reliable. 

Eagle

Eagle, I think you are right about having a witness, but I remember an old law prof. saying,"A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on."  I usually hunt with a partner and we are both prepaired to inforce our verbal agreement if necessary.   Frank

Eagle, I think you are right about having a witness, but I remember an old law prof. saying,"A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on."  I usually hunt with a partner and we are both prepaired to inforce our verbal agreement if necessary.   Frank

And, I'm sure he was quite correct Frank, albeit in a humorous way. 

I also heard an old retired Federal Judge (and prof.) say: "There has never been a written contract that through interpretation cannot be nullified".

We still have ongoing legal arguements to this day about correct interpretations of parts of the Constitution.

I guess it all boils down to who can afford the best attornies.   

Eagledown, Looks like we have listened to some smart people.

                              Permission to detect

To whom it may concern:
This is to certify that the people whose signature appears below, so agree to share equally in any items found, such as gold, silver,coins and bullion, caches, and relics.
They further agree to share equally in any monetary gain that may occur through the sale of any part of the aforementioned items.
As landowner, I hereby give permission to search on my land for said items.

_________________________________________________ ___________
Landowner                                                          Date

_________________________________________________ ___________
Searcher                                                             Date


This should cover all of the bases and keep it simple enough to understand.
Jest copy it and you are good to go.       Frank

Short, consise and the intent is easily understood. 

Better than a lot of agreements I've seen. Thanks Frank!!

Eagle

I agree with #2. 50-50%,,, have a sign contract.  You deserve at lease 50%.  Keep in touch. Best of luck.

Thanks Frankn, that is a very straightforward and easy to understand document. I will hopefully be able to hunt for this cache next month...I'll let you guys know how it goes!

Even though you don't want to push your luck with the landowner keep in mind the landowner only stands to gain by letting you search. Sure he could go out and spend $1000. for a good detector, spend a year learning how to use it and look himself but he won't. If you don't search all he has is a story, a much better story if you find something.

How did it go?  Find anything yet?

   Danny...it's the middle of April, but it looks like Christmas outside. I'm still dealing with chilly temperatures and SNOW. Believe me--I can't wait to go hunt for this stuff, but it might be another month or so before I actually get out to this location to look for the cache. I will definitely let you guys know how it goes! 

No snow on the ground in Bridgeport Connecticut. Best of luck to all of you.