Can someone please comment on their knowledge of the conncetion with..

the knights templar the da vinci code and the story of mary magdoline? Im watching as story on the history channel and it is telling some things about devinci  being involved in the knights templar aswell as hiding clues in his paintings about the holy grail and a ton of other stuff. sounds like a KGC thing to do...... just wondering if anyone knew more or have sugestions of books i should read......   Thanks!!!

Well, the murder mystery and the characters are fiction.

And yes there is much conjecture over theories about Mary Magdalene, etc. Some of it is definitely "rubbish".

However, one thing is factual: The Roman Catholic Church has a vested interest in preventing people from knowing the factual history about the origins of the Christian Religion.

I have been studying this field for 25 years, and I take what the Catholic Church says with a grain of salt, as I am solely interested in historical fact concerning the history of early Christianity, and am not blinded by "religious fervor" or "blind zealotry" (As the Church wishes everyone was).
There is much about the early Christian Church that is commonly believed by the public at large that is absolutely false, and it is only in recent years some of the truth has begun to emerge. The book and it's controversy have done a great service to the public in that it has shed light on much that the Church would rather have kept quiet. Dialogue on this subject is a good thing.

However, in the interest in preserving the peace, I will not go into details.

The book The DaVinci Code is not as fictional as it's detractors wish.

Malteze

I am a Knights Templar Grand Master descendent

I can tell you this much for certain

ORME DEI,,, NOT ,,, OPUS DEI
Is the Secret Service of the Vatican

Yes, the Vatican has been very active in the attempted recovery
of any religio historical artifacts extant, for all of its
history

They took a beautiful religion
and turned it into a BLOOD ATONEMENT CULT!!!!!!!!!

This being what Romans did at the time

Newbie

another truth and this one for you

The KGC was a manufactured hoax

that is the truth

Formulated disinformation, created to cover
the truth of the actual depositors of such treasures.

A hint for all of you

CHURCH AND STATE,,, EQUAL GREED AND HATE

Once you understand and accept that as the fact that it is

you become aware of the possibillities
of being free of the lie.

Need evidence,,, ?

it is all around you

does it make sence that with all the resources both have

that there are homeless starving people everywhere ?

get it ?


Rog'

Perhaps, but there is much going on in this world that the "public" has no knowledge of.

Dear KGCNewbieSeeker,

Try Holy Blood, Holy Grail, I think by Balducci. This is where Dan Brown got his research. The most important statement to take from the Davinci Code is "We are in a world where other people believe its true." Some believe that the Priory of Zion/Preury de Sion is grooming the End Time Ruler. Quien Sabe.

Hey "Newbieseeker"...

I am an old KGC vet with 35 years experience chasing their treasures and running with many of the top researchers in that field.  No doubt, I will get attacked for what I am about to tell you but I would encourage you to ignore the "naysayers" and follow up on this info:

While those who served in the KGC were in fact duped as to who was really running the org. and what its REAL purposes in hiding over 3000 caches of treasure was, nonetheless, the KGC did... and still does... exist today.

They have their people on these forums to immediately make fun of people's posts like myself and to try to put DIS-information and dis-chord among the KGC searchers to hinder any success they might have in actually finding and recovering these caches.

One of the first big chores you have in pursuing the TRUTH about the KGC is to learn to separate the scoffers/agents from the those who have really paid their dues regarding KGC research and cache hunting.  It will not be easy for you to do that but... it is possible... don't give up.   

Try to get your hands on a scarce book entitled "JESSE JAMES WAS ONE OF HIS NAMES" by Del Schrader (deceased) and Jesse Lee James III (also deceased).  It is not all 100% truth by any means nor is it the "end-all, be-all" of KGC research materials but... it is an excellent "primer" for a KGC newbie! There is a LOT of TRUE info about the KGC in that book and you need to read it if you would follow the "Owl Hoot" trail of the Golden Circle.

I will probably not be able to share very much info with you on the open forum because I expect to get hit very hard by those who don't WANT me revealing what I know. But remember... IT IS THE SCOFFER AND THE OPPOSITION that attack the truth in an arrogant, insulting way.  Watch the naysayers and see if their posts reflect the attitude of REAL truth-seekers as opposed to those seeking to keep the truth from being known.

Suggest that you contact me via PM's if you wish to know any more of what I know about the KGC so we can discuss the subject without the interferance of the "bad guys" that will read this.

As for you "bad guys" who do read this... and you know who you are... keep on thinking that you are smarter than all the rest of us... it makes you a lot more vulnerable to being deceived by the likes of us. While you are fussing and fuming about posts like this, we old-timer KGC hunters will be laughing all the way to the bank... with your gold... the gold which the original KGC people mostly stole from others...  in our pockets.     

Whatever your choice, newbie... this "OLd KGC Pro" wishes you well. One final thing: BEWARE THE RED HAND TREASURES OF THE KGC!

DC

The KGC is alive & well.  I'm glad to see DC ( AnOldPro ) jump in here !  ROG ( TreasureMinder ) is aware that the KGC was a "screen" for the real purpose of the Cache owners.  There can be Absolutely NO DOUBT that the KGC existed---the only real question is "What WAS their purpose?"  You need to read everything you can get your hands on ( & there is a TON of info on the Internet ) about the KGC. The NEW YORK TIMES of that Civil War era printed MANY articles about their activities.   I have a website where I have gathered a few hundred links together that should "entertain" you for awhile:
http://www.KnightsOfTheGoldenCircle-KGC.com/

If you don't want to spend $300.00+ for a copy of the book recommended by DC--JESSE JAMES WAS ONE OF HIS NAMES---you can read it for FREE at:

http://bwcpublishing.com/names/names.html

ROG is a bit shy, but he ALSO has an entertaining website:

http://rogersnow.atspace.com/

Please be VERY careful if you decide you want to hunt for KGC caches---Booby-traps & "Sentinels" await you !

FLOYD MANN
FRMPINK@AOL.COM

" Rog. is a bit shy " lol....Hey Floyd thanks for the info. you gave me. I haven't heard from Rog. in a while, I know he moved. I enjoyed a lot of interesting post with him.

KGCnewbieseeker  You will learn a lot from Floyd and Roger's website's

                                             Clayton Ramey

Yo!  Rebel - KGC here:     I just wanted to add (in case you didn't already know...)
RED HAND... "PAINTED"  Red Hand sign... drawing, impression, etc. means DANGRER!!! POSSIBLY BOOBY-TRAPPED... we are watching you...  ;)

just finished reading "Shadow of the Sentinal" good KGC reading!

    Contrary to what Maltese claims the Catholic Church is far from the secretive conspiracy mongering institution that is portrayed in the Da Vinci Code.
    The oldest writings of the Church are the letters of Paul who died about 69C.E. The respective canonical gospels where complete by the end of the first century.  This is not Vatican doctrine, Protestant and secular scholars generally agree.
    To study the beginning of Christianity you need to study the first century sources first, This rules out The Da Vinci Code since most of the sources that it cites are no earlier than the late second century.  These other "gospels" contain practically no narrative, merely concerned putting words in the mouth of Christ that support certain esoteric movements that existed at that time.
    These "gnostic" movements were not even monotheistic, believing that the world was created by a crude "demiurge" and one needed special knowledge ,"gnosis" in order to be saved.  Mary of Magdaline was concider ed a disciple because she "became a man", according to one such "gospel".
    Vatican conspiracies are little more than " Arguments of Diversion" meant to attempt to shift the burden of proof from  weak or non existant evidence to the opposing arguer
    As for the Catholic Church's desire for "blind zealotry" or "religious fervor", I concider this an insult. I am a 51 year old College graduate (B.A. Sociology, S.H.S.U.) and retired from law enforcement.  I am also an EX Infantry officer and an adult convert to Catholicism.
Maltese claims to have studied this subject for 25 years, what do you concider research?
Books like "Holy Blood, Holy Grail," by Baigent,Leigh and Lincoln fall short.
    As for "the Da Vinci Code" I'll assume he spelled his name right, that's about as true as he gets.

This is Treasure Minder ( Roger Snow)
First, all religions are false
Religion does not equate to truth
never has
it is a brainwash
and a mind-control apparatus only
plus a great money maker.
Now, on the treasure of KGC
Solomons men came here to this continent to rewmove goldbars from Ophir as they refered to this hemisphere.
The bars were already smelted and stored here in caverrns.
Such as Victorio Peak and other sites
The superstitions inclusive.
Thats right, these treasure PRE-DATE EVEN KING SOLOMON.
My evidence has met and passed all test.
BTW, as you should know
the removal of some of the gold in 1962 at victorio Peak
was the Motive for the MURDER of JFK
I promise you that is the truth.
Rog'

     The KGC did not go away after the Civil War. I know for a fact they were still around as late as 1937. I have access to some records with these dates. No they will never be posted so don't even ask. You know the rules. Both of my great great Grand Fathers were members in East Texas and their family members (men) in West Texas. None ever surrendered after the Civil War and those still alive in 1900 received their Civil War pensions. They weren't supposed to get pensions when they didn't sign the loyalty oath.  I do agree that one would want to be very careful because of sentinels. At some cashes they are still alive and well as this honor was passed down.
     
   
     

Bump

Sorry But I have a hard time believing that there aren't some of these old secret groups just laying low as the Templars did for a couple hundred years.

I haven't experienced "sentinels" but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if there were.

Nobody believed that Jesse James had a headquarters here in Colorado until documentation proved he was in and around Leadville for over a year, hiding out in Half Moon Gulch.
Since then all kinds of experts have popped up to give their opinion on the subject.

Before that there were a few old diehards that were chasing a lot of the supposed caches he had left behind there.

I am not by any means an expert on the KGC. But if someone really wants to delve into the subject ....
There certainly seems to be enough information out there to occupy ones mind for a lifetime.

And more power to you. Have fun , and stay safe.

OD

     We can believe what we want to believe about the KGC as we live in a free country, but they didn't go away after the civil war. You see I don't need to prove anything nor will I argue the point. I know what I know. The record I have from 1937 is all the prove that I need. By the way, I don't take bait either. There was a reason the carpetbaggers stayed out of our part of East Texas. They didn't live too long. There is a river bottom not far away. Need I say more. My hope would be that no one looking for a KGC cache ever runs across a sentinel. There probably aren't many left if any, but I would hate to find out the hard way. I know that there are still some really old families that never left that part of East Texas.

Knights of the Golden Circle======Da Vinici Code=====JFK assasination=====What's next? U.F.O.s and Bigfoot?
    It seem that any disiplined study of a subject is concidered "brainwashing" while the wildest conspiracy theory is taken at face value.
    The term"BURDEN OF PROOF" should loom large in the mind of anyone involved in this discussion.  If you make a positive claim (i.e. KGC treasure exists) then you bare the burden of proof.  IT is impossible to provide negative proof of anything.( what could be proof of something not existing?) Ergo, skeptics bear no such burden.
   Claiming that this is a free country and you can believe anything you want  is a "cop out", the rules of rational debate stand. What is the purpose of a forum anyway?

Ron,

The purpose of a forum is to discuss the theories. Period.
Not to discourage a determined mind from seeking further information on a subject.
If a determined person finds what history says can't exist,

Hooray.

Give them the chance to stir things up!
And
"More power to them"

OD

 OD'
    Of, course, so long as the determined mind is also a disciplined mind.  There may be small caches hidden but the "burden of proof" rests singularly on those who claim that there are.  I don't see much evidence that Large amounts of gold or silver are hidden awaiting a rebirth of the Confederacy (anecdotal accounts not withstanding). I am not sure that the financial state of the south would have produced such treasures.

Ron,

If by chance you were to find a cache of KGC related goods, other than weapons.
would you tell the world?
There is no need to respond as I know what your answer is.
at least what I would hope it would be.

I picture you as a thinking person.
one that would learn from the mistakes of others.

No, even small caches are kept quiet for obvious reasons.
Just because you don't hear about them, don't doubt the existence.
the influence of many very affluent southern gentlemen as well as many from other countries may in time change your mind.

The US Government has some very strange ideas about handling things, and seem to go to extreme measures to take the fruits of labors not theirs. Even YEARS after the fact.

Bear this in mind not only when you don't hear about KGC finds, but Spanish as well. You will find there is more behind these stories than just a story.

Thom
OD

     Gee did I ever stoke the fire. That really wasn't my intention. Let's say I posted some of these records, which I will not do. What would happen? There are those who know that the KGC existed into the 1900's. There are those who will never believe, even if I did post the records. Some would say the records were fake. So what would it prove? All I would be doing is exposing a lot of old families and gee.....we would have more people than you could shake a stick wandering around and digging holes all over our property and others peoples property without their permission. People would be knocking on these old families doors asking a lot of questions and these old families wouldn't be too happy with me. Then we would have more of the old head stones stolen out of the old cemeteries. Some sorry *** * ***** stole my great grand fathers head stone about 5 years ago as well as a few others from that era.
     One of the things that I have learned over the years is to be open minded. I started this learning process at NTSU in Denton. I have carried on this process through out my life and I am 60. If I were to find some buried treasure or KGC cache no one would ever know. There is so much goal, silver, and jewels buried around Texas and off the coast of Texas that it would boggle the mind. There is a reason no one goes after the ship wrecks off the Texas coast. The state of Texas will take all of what you find and you get nothing.....not even a finders fee. I believe it is like this for all Texas water ways.
     So I'll close with this. May your metal detectors sing some very pleasant tones of gold. When you dig a hole fill it back in when you are finished and always get permission from the land owner.

   "Burden of proof" and "Caveat emptor" are wise advice if you are buying something. When no one is selling anything you have the right to believe or disbelieve what is said. Many people posting on public forums don't give a rat's a$$ what people think about what they say.
Unfortunately some of the newer members do care.
   I for one have the desire to hear what is being said and I will make up my own mind about the validity of it. I don't need anyone to try to influence my thinking and I resent the hell out of people that start blowing off and then we frequently never hear the end of the story.
   It seems like some people are in a race to shut down any topic they don't agree with. That's a real shame and I pity those folks. siegfried schlagrule

Thanks SS

Good Hunting

OD

Folks,
   I'm sorry if I got on my soapbox abit.  It was not my intention to shut anybody up. I'm not certain if people realize how offensive books LIke the DaVinci Code and Holy Blood ,Holy Grail are to Roman Catholics,especially those who have taken the time to study the history of the origins and of the Church. You would be surprised about the BRAVO SIERRA being published about It (PLease dont get me started!)
As far as these books are concerned they are trying to sell something . 
   As Far as the KGC treasure I remain skeptical of Large caches, Knock yourself out looking for them and I like my crow fried if you find one. Ron

BigRon, People have a right to their religious beliefs. I won't debate them or fight them over it unless their religion permits child abuse or human sacrifice. It seems you are passionate about this topic. The people that I was refering to appear on every forum but they sing the same refrain. They do their best to stiffle discussion not promote discussion. Unlike you, they would not be caught dead worrying about whether or not they offended anyone. exanimo, siegfried schlagrule

Hiding online is so easy today, that if one is careful, they could expose whatever cache they had found . . . without worry of being caught. One with knowledge of chained anonymous proxies, or even just the Vidalia bundle (free automated proxy chaining software) could remain anonymous --- even post pics.

Just create a second or third personna, post, and never come back. Really simple. This is common knowledge, nothing new. It DOES work.

No one has found a cache of the size the KGC are purported to have left behind. Why? You have to have the gold, silver, and jewels before you can hide em. They didn't have it, because the south was broke. I know about the outlaws, but the amounts stolen in roberies is not sufficient to build up billion or even million dollar caches.

Then the problem of figuring out a mapping system, and teaching all those (sometimes illiterate) outlaws to lay out clues based on a template. Relying on them to live in poverty while hiding all this illgotten booty for some future return of the south.

Doesn't add up.

Just my opinion, like everyone else, I got one about the KGC too.

I keep telling you that the KGC never existed but you just won't listen.  The book writer has gotten everyone stirred up!
Boattow

Oh -- I must not have expressed myself clearly. I appologize, because I really do believe that they existed. I do believe that they WANTED to do the things they are alleged to have done. They just didn't have the resources to accomplish that goal.

The KGC were organized enough to get the U.S. Secret Service upset in the 1860's and later due to their military organization. Both "The Great Conspiracy" by John A. Logan (1886) and "Treason History of the Order of Sons of Liberty, formerly Circle of Honor, Succeeded by Knights of the Golden Circle, afterward Order of American Knights" by Felix Stidger(1903), a former Secret Service agent and spy, document a lot of goings on and much organizational information based on investigations.

In Mr. Logans's book there is lots of discussion about the distribution of weapons to existing members, but the KGC ran into problems obtaining enough weapons to arm their existing membership. In fact, many did not get armed by the KGC because the KGC could not procure the weapons due to a lack of production capability by existing arms dealers. That rules out the huge weapons caches.

Mr. Stidger was a Secret Service agent who infiltrated the group and in 1864 had become the "Grand Secretary of State Order of Sons of Liberty, State of Kentucky". He, therefore, had a working knowledge of their goings on. Just getting started on this book, so I can't comment on it very much.

What I don't believe is that there was so much gold and silver available to them as to build up the amount of treasure some here assert existed. They couldn't even accumulate the weapons for the caches they are alleged to have hidden. The south was BROKE. I know what that is like, because I can't hide million or billion dollar caches either due to that one fact.

Small caches? Yes. I do believe that there were some SMALL caches, but nothing on the scale folks here speak of. The stories of HUGE caches just makes money for book sellers, scam artists (who sell templates, maps, and more), and the like.

Smee,
    I agree.  I can see small group or individual members trying to hang on after the structured organization collapses. Also there may have been a good deal of bluffing to begin with, the secrecy and ritual could serve to intimidate or impress outsiders, suggesting a larger and more potent force than actually existed.
   I also found more info in a book titled "The Army of the Pacific, 1860-1866" by Aurora Hunt, reprinted in the "frontier Classics Series" by Stackpole Books.  This author describes the KGC and another offshoot group, their oath, some recognition signals and the effort to infiltrate them by the Federal Army during the war.
   The KGC was able to field combat units during the war but the campaigns turned out to be disasters, they failed at all of their other goals why should they be expected to have succeeded at hiding millions of dollars of gold.           
                             Ron

Actually, the Secret Service estimated their forces at about 320,000. They were just so undisciplined that it didn't matter. And when they promised support, they didn't come through . . . leaving the confederate general without the support needed to complete the mission.

To read about them, they were heavy on organization, and making obligations, but without the "guts" to follow through.

BTW, both of the books cited earlier are downloadable from Google books.

O.K.
I'll get ya'll started on some names of the original organizers of the KGC
First is Senator Preston Smith Brooks
Google the name and read his story
P.S. Brooks is an ancestor of mine.

Next, go to the Desoto County Florida genweb site
check for the Confedrate veterans Org they had there
look for the photos of some of their meetings
what you will see are some of the actual KGC players.

General Quitman was another KGC headman.

Check Brooks county genweb for some more KGC names.
P.S. Brooks Nephew was a Con Vet.
You'll find a writeup on him at the Genweb site for brooks county.

Next, was William Snow of Pensyvania
He was an undercover spy for the KGC
My GG Grandfather

These are the actors of the legacy.
here are some last names to look for

Calhoun
Cleburne as well as Clayburn

Williams
Snow
Price
Perry.

Rog'

I wasn't saying that the organization did not exist, nor is anyone else saying that . . . as far as I know.

What I am saying is simple: Broke people and countries cannot hide wealth they do not posses.

Did the KGC exist? Definitely.

Did they hide Billions or even Millions of dollars in treasure? They could not. They didn't have it to begin with.

Who was in the KGC? Many, Many southerners, and some northerners.

Did the U.S. government acknowledge their existance? Yes.

However, the fact remains that they did not have the gold and weapons to bury. They were only able to arm about half of their troops. If you don't arm your soldiers, they can't fight to protect your wealth . . . so you arm them as quickly as possible. If the money runs out, you got problems. The money ran out.

You'll probably find a few caches with KGC signs and symbols. All relatively small, probably from bank robberies or the like. Nothing like a billion dollar cache. It isn't possible.

Morning my Friend SWR: You said-->

" it is a testament to man’s ability to believe anything for a chance of such a vast fortune."
~~~~~~~~

Yes, upon this  the entire lottery  system is based.  Pssst --Wanna  buy a sure winning ticket?

Don Jose de La Mancha

" Yo!  Rebel - KGC here:     I just wanted to add (in case you didn't already know...)
RED HAND... "PAINTED"  Red Hand sign... drawing, impression, etc. means DANGRER!!! POSSIBLY BOOBY-TRAPPED... we are watching you... "


What does a  "Shadow of a  Sentinal"  look like,  and what does it mean.

   Victorio, if you are asking... what a Sentinel/Shadow looks like...  what does it mean...? Like a CamoDude at Area 51 in Nevada, I recken... "THEY" can see/watch you, BUT!  Being VERY stealthy, and HIGHLY TRAINED, you will not see "THEM".  Are "THEY" modern day private/public military?   Are "THEY" SPOOKS/SPIRITS of the "DEAD"... I have heard BOTH!   Haunted?  MAYBE... who knows...  ;)

If this red hand saying held any truth at all then I would be in trouble. I know where a red hand is that you can see from a quarter mile away, and as many times as I have been in this area I have never once had anyone watching me. I have hunted on many of the same places that others claim after being on they got nasty phone calls in the middle of the night warning them to stay away. Not once have I had such a call myself and my number is in the book. Then again I always get permission before hunting a place.

Yo!       Victorio, you MAY find THIS web-site helpful... http://www.treasurehuntersuniversity.com       The "Red Hand" is simply a "hand-print" painted red... it MAY be just a SCARE AWAY TACTIC... on the "other hand" (pun intended  ...), good "warning sign" to know...   ;)

I have always given my name etc to any land owner whose property I am allowed to hunt.
I have many photos of red hands. Sometimes two at once at the same location.
I guess I am lucky as well.

Let me dig through my stuff and I will post a photo of them. may take a little while so bear with me.

OD

 Hi Guys: Diary of a Confederate Clerk is a interesting read, Jeff Davis Personal Clerk that opened his mail,, This Clerk was a interesting fellow, he spoke of the CSA Sending Millions of Dollars oversea's,England,France,I think theres mention of Brazil also,, one part in there concerning a $15,000,000.00 transaction, he spoke of arms being sent in from over seas,, talked about inflation alot,but, It did not appear that the CSA was Even near to being  Broke, maybe these Larger Caches were hidden Early On in the War,even in other Countries,, I read where alot of the Diehard Confederates moved to Brazil after the war & lived thier lifes out there. Im not a Pro at this stuff but have read some on it ,,but, Not in any of the Books mentioned here,, The Stuff Ive read came from the Library of Congress, Civi War History at Ancestry.com,, By the Way John A. Logan was from my area, 19 miles North of here,, Ive read  about him,, From what ive read alot of his Soldiers were killed in the Battles he fought, But he is considered a hero in this area. As Ive said imnot a Pro at this ,,just telling some info Ive seen here & there, So be easy on me,im not trying to disagree with anyone here. One person that knows alot of history on this told me that the South knew at the beginning that they would lose the War,so they stashed alot of thier Wealth in other Countries & in the Ground,,Something to think about anyways.

Would be interested in reading that book. Where may I find a copy?

Hello...To start read "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" ....There's a list in the book that gets you started.   ,Lou Kilgore

 Hi again Guy's: I would love to read everyones comments after reading ,,A Rebel War Clerk's Diary at the Confederate States Capital,,,
 Thank's SWR for Posting the Link!! ,I Couldn't get the link from ancestry.com<G>,have to pay & login there,,,,I hadn't got to read all of the diary ,,but, sure found it a interesting account of what was going on in the Civil war on the Confederate side, it looks like alot of money went down the drain,people suffered terribly,but,,out of the Eleven States in the south,, Were all eleven States really flat Broke? That involves alot of people/ Property,,millions & millions of Dollars!! It would seem that some of that Money went to other places other than the War effort,, I believe there probably are some buried/hidden Caches here & there. it is a interesting discussion either way!!

It is a single photo of a pair of white hands outlined in red.
I am pretty sure I know where the disk sits getting to it is the problem.
I will post them today if I have to go out in the snow and get a new one.

The last time I saw the sign the red was almost all washed off but the white outlines are still there.

Thom

Update here is the picture
Sorry it took so long

I just finished Reading "The Rebel and the Rose" by Wesley Millett and Gerald White .
 They relate the events regarding the Confederate treasury's evacuation from Richmond and The man in charge of its safekeeping ,James A. Semple, paymaster of the Confederate Navy.  Goes into accounting of the funds , Estimated at about $527,023.00 , various disbursments and several scenarios about what happened to the remainder.  (Yes, some of it may have been buried.)
     The KGC didn't rate mention.  I'm sure it existed at one time and may even have buried some money but I think alot of it is wishful thinking. (Why send money to other countries when while the war is far from lost?  Why risk running the blockade with more money than you keep on hand?)
                                                         
                                                                                 Ron

   This is ALSO an "interest area" for me... it is MY understanding, that the Rebs were trying to return "loaned" BRIT funds BACK to the BRITS, and "loaned" OTHER funds BACK to "hide", for ANOTHER day... LOTS of stuff, went NORTH to Canada ("YANK"/BRIT), where LOTS of Reb "operatives" fled AFTER the CW.   LOTS of 'em PROBABLY became OUTLAWS of the Old West, heading towards Mexico, where a REBEL CONCAVE was.   The "funds" were PROBABLY BRIT coins, Mexican/Spanish coins, etc.  DUNNO.   

Another thing came to mind.
The south had control of the New Orleans Mint but other than a few samples minted no coinage.  The respective states, Confederate government and other banks and institutions issued paper money even as fractional currency(ie. 25 cent or 50 cent bills). This leads me to believe that gold and silver was scarce throuout the war. 
     Much of the business the south did during the war was done by means of Cotton, paper money, bonds and by loans.  The sale of cotton that made it to Europe was handled by agents in Europe and no gold needed to cross the ocean in these transactions.  The value of cotton was a main basis of the southern economy.
     " The Rebel and The Rose" relates that much of the Confederate treasury was silver Mexican 8 reale pieces.  After the flight from Richmond , President Davis used funds to pay many of the troops as they disbanded and to redeem Confederate paper money at at least one of his stops as he fled. the authors speculate that some of the coinage may have been Hidden at Danville.  Still, The amount of Gold and silver in the treasury was less than $600,000.

                                                              Ron
     

Okay.... I'm going to have to jump back into this discussion.

To all of you who think you have "debunked" the existence of the Golden Circle treasures by stating that the South was relatively poor and did not have those amounts of treasure to be procured and hid....  you are truly showing your ignorance of HOW.... and WHEN.... and WHERE.... the KGC got its gold and silver from.   This is a classic case of you being "In the right church and WRONG pew".

The treasures of the KGC were NOT taken out of the southern economy.  They came from several different sources and well over 90% of them were procured and hidden AFTER the Civil War through the early 1900's and yes.... even up to the present time. 

Here are a few of their sources:

1. The KGC procured Spanish treasure maps from the Vatican archives and a special depository of same beneath a large Catholic church in Mexico city and recovered quite a few of the major bullion deposits hidden by the Spanish in the southwestern states when the Indian uprising in the late 1600's forced them out of the territory. 

2. The KGC also through these maps found MANY of the still workable gold and silver mines of the Spaniards and put them back into production producing their own bullion that NEVER saw entrance into the public economy.

3. The KGC after the war attacked trains and stagecoaches carrying shipments of gold, both coin and bullion that were A. owned by the Northern bankers or B. Insured by the Northern bankers. Many of these thefts were hushed up as Jay Gould and the other bankers did not want the public to know how big their losses were.

4. The KGC took a fair portion of these pilfered riches and INVESTED them in railroads, freight companies, ships & etc. thus using those fortunes to make MORE fortunes.... fortunes that were later carefully and slowly converted into coin and bullion and then hidden in their depositories.

5. WHY is it that it is so hard for so many to grasp the fact that the KGC was in the TREASURE HUNTING business as well as the mining and treasure STEALING business and that they were in a war against the NORTHERN BANKERS???

There are more sources than these for the riches they procured and hid but this is enough to stir up old "Shallow Water Recovery" to try to convince you that I don't know what I am talking about. If you will notice SWR's comments on just about any topic there is a very definite pattern to them... he wants all of you to believe that that are no big supercaches of treasure whether the originators be the KGC, "Yamasheeta", the Templars or whoever.   Hmmm... looks like you have a hidden agenda, SWR.
WHO are you really working for.... the gummint... the Templars... the Masons???  Surely you are not just simply --deleted-- of the TRUTH... not an intelligent, "reasoning" person like yourself!

Old Dog knows that what I wrote above is true, don't you, OD?   I have been to quite a few KGC treasure sites, including one where a TH'er was killed by an exploding black powder booby trap as he dug (Yes... his body is still in there along with the 10 million in gold he was after).  In fact, I have gone way beyond the KGC and been to the sites of some of the incredible treasures of the masters of the KGC, the Knights Templars.  It is like a friend of mine who was very high up in the intelligence community of the United States told me before he was murdered to keep him quiet.... "THE TRUTH IS NOT ONLY STRANGER THAN YOU IMAGINE.... IT IS STRANGER THAN YOU CAN IMAGINE!".

Oh... and one more thing... this is for you "agents of influence" associated with the hiders of these treasures.... you lost a VERY big cache late last year and you are going to lose another one in the next few months".  And don't waste your time harassing me because you will lose this second cache whether or not I happen to be alive to see it happen.  I'm just a privileged observer to these projects... not the sponsor of them.  The best irony of all is that the resources obtained will provide the extensive funds necessary to begin opening other much larger and better secured caches. 

The problem with the really big caches is that so much work was done to conceal them that it literally takes millions of dollars to covertly open one and remove and utilize its contents in such a way as to avoid unwanted "official" or "bad guy" attention. These caches are so big that an extensive totally secret "depository" must be prepared in advance to receive all that bullion until it can be turned into cash or other negotiable assetts.  Anybody out there actually think that you just drive up to your local bank with a few rent-a-trucks full of gold bars and deposit it all into their vault and your bank account?
If you do then its time to stop taking that Prozac... or whatever it is that's clouding your thinking.

You see... folks, what the "bad guys" with their great swelling egos never imagined when they built the secret societies dedicated to evil purposes is that there could also be a great secret society of "good guys" to oppose them and... after letting them lay up and secure all these ill-gotten treasures
over the centuries would simply move in, at the proper time, on a scale that they never even imagined and take them away BEFORE they could be used for their intended purposes. A purpose, I might add that would be ultimately devastating to men and women who love freedom.  The KGC is now a "broken circle".

Okay... thats enough said to stir up the pot and get me once again branded as a crazy. 

Standing by for your astute and timely comments.

DC

Beale ,
Where can I find this official record?

A Lot of material to sort through on Official records.  If the 2.3 Million was sent to the CSA treasury it was likely used where paper currency was not accepted (They spent it abroad.)  I'm not saying that there is no part of the CSA treasure but I doubt that It is as large as hoped for and suspect that the KGC's role is exaggerated.   The 2008 "Official Red Book of Coin Values" suggests that only about 1000 coins were struck, a test run, but never circulated.

Fair enough.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,140331.0/topicseen.html

Thanks Floyd,

Sounds like a good read.

Thom

SWR,

I have read most of what is going on with the Danville thing,
From what I understand these guys have been doing this your way and following the rules.

Can't dig it up applies here.
Simply because they are following The rules as you would have them do.
What gives?

OldPro, you stated;
"I have been to quite a few KGC treasure sites, including one where a TH'er was killed by an exploding black powder booby trap as he dug (Yes... his body is still in there along with the 10 million in gold he was after)." 

Were you actually there when this man died? If so, that makes you a very bad partner in my book. If you weren't, then how do you actually know that an explosion took place and a man was killed and left in the hole? Did you dig to find out?  If you didn't then you are just spreading more rumors which is how the stories of the alleged KGC mega-bucks depositories started thanks to Orvus Howk.

You make several statements but don't offer any actual proof of what you say, just like all of the other KGC experts. "The KGC procured Spanish treasure maps from the Vatican archives and a special depository of same beneath a large Catholic church in Mexico city and recovered quite a few of the major bullion deposits hidden by the Spanish in the southwestern states when the Indian uprising in the late 1600's forced them out of the territory." Got any proof? Any at all? What's your source for the existence of the Spanish maps and that the KGC "procured" them?

More rumors made up to perpetuate a story that has no actual facts to back it up.

SWR
  Amen.

OldPro, you stated;
"I have been to quite a few KGC treasure sites, including one where a TH'er was killed by an exploding black powder booby trap as he dug (Yes... his body is still in there along with the 10 million in gold he was after)." 

Were you actually there when this man died? If so, that makes you a very bad partner in my book. If you weren't, then how do you actually know that an explosion took place and a man was killed and left in the hole? Did you dig to find out?  If you didn't then you are just spreading more rumors which is how the stories of the alleged KGC mega-bucks depositories started thanks to Orvus Howk.

You make several statements but don't offer any actual proof of what you say, just like all of the other KGC experts. "The KGC procured Spanish treasure maps from the Vatican archives and a special depository of same beneath a large Catholic church in Mexico city and recovered quite a few of the major bullion deposits hidden by the Spanish in the southwestern states when the Indian uprising in the late 1600's forced them out of the territory." Got any proof? Any at all? What's your source for the existence of the Spanish maps and that the KGC "procured" them?

More rumors made up to perpetuate a story that has no actual facts to back it up.

Good call. I have concluded that the only thing tooting that one’s horn is their own hot air. Incredible amounts of BS…too much for me to handle.

And he bashed people who takes Prozac in his response. I think he needs to pop a couple pills. Why do you Anoldpro come on here every few months just to insult people and the best I can tell is to also make fun of my fellow members and never have a speck of anything to back up a word you say? Is your homelife that bad you must come on here to get rid of your frustrations by verbally bashing folks who are just trying to have a nice friendly discussion? Then you run off for a month or so (and we are all praying you will not come back) then return to stick your nose in once again just far enough to make a fool out of yourself. Your far from Anoldpro its more like Anold_______ fill in the blank my fellow members!

OldPro, you stated;
"I have been to quite a few KGC treasure sites, including one where a TH'er was killed by an exploding black powder booby trap as he dug (Yes... his body is still in there along with the 10 million in gold he was after)." 

Were you actually there when this man died? If so, that makes you a very bad partner in my book. If you weren't, then how do you actually know that an explosion took place and a man was killed and left in the hole? Did you dig to find out?  If you didn't then you are just spreading more rumors which is how the stories of the alleged KGC mega-bucks depositories started thanks to Orvus Howk.

You make several statements but don't offer any actual proof of what you say, just like all of the other KGC experts. "The KGC procured Spanish treasure maps from the Vatican archives and a special depository of same beneath a large Catholic church in Mexico city and recovered quite a few of the major bullion deposits hidden by the Spanish in the southwestern states when the Indian uprising in the late 1600's forced them out of the territory." Got any proof? Any at all? What's your source for the existence of the Spanish maps and that the KGC "procured" them?

More rumors made up to perpetuate a story that has no actual facts to back it up.

Good call. I have concluded that the only thing tooting that one’s horn is their own hot air. Incredible amounts of BS…too much for me to handle.

He did find a luggage tag last year with his detector.....what a pro.

[Biographies and Memoirs]

I have a nice, signed, first edition of A.J. Hanna's "Flight Into Oblivion".  It recounts "the flight of the Confederate Cabinet from Richmond (April 2, 1865) to the capture of Jefferson Davis in Southern Georgia one month after General Lee's surrender", and continues with the story of some of the Confederate Cabinet members efforts to escape into foreign lands after his capture.

A detailed account of their efforts to remove and disburse the Confederate Treasury, such as it was, is included in the book. 

Anyone wishing to research the subject, should acquire this book and read it, beginning to end.  The end is important because that is where you will find Hanna's references for each chapter.  You will also find a complete listing of all "Manuscripts", "Articles in Periodicals", "Biographies and Memoirs", "General Works" and "Government Publications" used as SOURCES in Hanna's fine book.

Without sources, what we have here is a fine, unpublished, work of fiction.

Joe Ribaudo

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I realized after I posted that reply that it was a little unclear.  Went back and did some underlining......just made it worse.

The book has sources........the posts have none.  Just stories without support.

The book is as good as it gets, this many years after the events.

Take care,

Joe

Thank you for this post. I ordered the book today.

jcrockster,

No problem.  Enjoy the book.

"A Rebel War Clerk's Diary at the Confederate States Capital" was mentioned earlier, and it can be purchased at Alibris.com or Abebooks.com.  There are many copies available and it comes in two volumes.  Best value for the money, are probably the Time Life editions.

Best,

Joe Ribaudo

president garfield was assassinated also .his name and his murderer both showed up in a set of files i have been searching through concerning a possible kgc stash here in mass. dr guiteau spelling could be wrong was the assassins reletive. i think he was assassinated near buffalo ny. doesnt mean much but i think it should be looked at. since national treasure 2 has surfaced

READ FOR FREE???

"---you can read it for FREE at:

http://bwcpublishing.com/names/names.html "
NOT quite!  Ask for Name and Password....hmmmm maybe NAME: JesseJames Password: KGCforever ?

NE way:  "Authorization Required
This server could not verify that you are authorized to access the document requested. Either you supplied the wrong credentials (e.g., bad password), or your browser doesn't understand how to supply the credentials required.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request. "

Joe,

"Flight Into Oblivion" came in the mail on Monday. It's great!!! I can hardly put it down. I found "A Rebel War Clerk's Diary at the Confederate States Capital" volume 2 at the local library. It starts August 1863 so it's great for now. Again, thanks for the recommendations.

John

John,

Your are more than welcome.  Glad you are enjoying the book.  What makes it fascinating is the fact that the accounts were taken, for the most part, from the people who were there.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

I just read through this fascinating thread and think it needs to be brought back into our discussion on this forum.  There is a lot of good information in these messages as well as a few posts by the naysayers.  I haven't seen several of these posters on here recently and maybe this will inspire them to re-enter our discussions and share their immense knowledge about the Knights of the Golden Circle.
~Texas Jay
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

Thanks for bringing this thread to our attention Jay.  I was just reading today about the Rothschilds and how they "took over" the money end for the Catholic Church in 1823 (just as they did for almost every rich country).  It is estimated that the Rothschilds have between $500 Trillion and $600 Trillion of Net Worth.  One other interesting point I read was that they keep there HUGE Gold reserves in...........................a VAULT!

I can't find the website now, but here is an interesting read on the Rothschilds that seems to conform with everything else I have read about them on other sites.

I would venture a guess that no matter what group or groups are behind these vaults or depositories, the Rothschilds are behind them in some manner (probably financially).

As a recently started KGC researcher, I am getting mixed opinions about them.  It seems that Pike was in the know and associated with the NWO, Rothschilds, and killing Presidents and other Politicos trying to get in the way of the Rothschilds and their takeover of the US Monetary Policy (Federal Reserve).  However, in JJ Was One of His Names, JJ states his distrust of these bankers and Bolshevists and states this was one reason for the depositories - to save from relying on outside funding for the second Civil War (which never happened of course, so JJ could have been lying and knew the truth all along)  Pike could have had them all (KGC Inner Circle) fooled into the second Civil War reason for these stashes (even JJ) - who knows?

http://www.rense.com/general77/POWERS.HTM

Let me explain who I am referring to when I say "naysayers".  I'm talking directly about those kinds of "mainstream" critics who were dogging Mel Fisher before he made the discovery and recovery of the world's greatest "lost treasure" when he found the Atocha.  They were calling him "crazy", "a dreamer", and a "fraud".  After he recovered a large amount of the Atocha's treasure, some is still being recovered to this day, he successfully fought the State of Florida over possession of it.  Well, Fisher won and the treasure went to him and those who had faith and the good common sense to realize that the documents in Seville were not fantasies or conspiracies.  For those who try to hurry us up, let me remind you that it took Mel Fisher nearly 20 years to touch a single gold coin, gold bar, emerald, or huge gold chain from that treasure galleon.  He just refused to give up on something he KNEW was there.  It cost him the lives of some of his family but still he persevered.  Oh yes, SWR, when you get around to reading "Rebel Gold", look for the photograph of where Mel Fisher's company dug for KGC treasure in Arkansas after the Atocha discovery.  SWR, you'd have done well had you signed on to Fisher's crew instead of criticizing his efforts as you do ours.
~Texas Jay     

How long did you hide under a rock once Fisher recovered the treasure of the Atocha?   
~Texas Jay

I hope you get more entertainment from this, SWR, than Carl Breihan did.  Breihan was also a confused naysayer but he should have paid more attention when choosing comparison photographs between "J. Frank Dalton" and a young Jesse W. James.  If you know anything about comparing photographs, enlarge this photo and take a close look at the features: the nose, the way the hair is combed, the eyes and the blemishes around them, the ears, the same scar at the left side of the mouths of each man, and the long "ridge" running from the left sideburn area along the jaw line.  I suppose you will claim that Dalton had a lot of plastic surgery to get these identical facial similarities with the young Jesse Woodson James.   
~Texas Jay
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

Dear group;
First, anyone who thinks that Leonardo Da Vinci's painting "The Last Supper" gives clues to some sort of crytic meaning is very sadly mistaken. Here's a fact that the author of The Da Vinci Code forgot to mention:

The Last Supper was completed by Leonardo Da Vinci in 1498 AD and yet, less than 60 years later the paint was deemed as totally ruined, due to Da Vinci having painting it on a dry w2all instead of on wet plaster. Big OOPS! In fact, it's well documented that the painting had become so deteriorated that the figures were completely unrecognizable.

First, a doorway was cut into the painting in 1652 AD and then later it was bricked over, and if one looks closely at the restored painting, one may still see the outline an the irregular shaped arch in the bottom center of the painting.

Next, a curtain was hung over the painting to protect it and what this actually did was to trap mositure thus allowing the painting to deteriorate all the faster. Also, every time the curtain was pulled back it removed the already loosened and flaking paint.

The painting was first restored in 1721 AD and the results were a complete fiasco. It was completed by Michealanglo Bellotti and he used oil paints to fill in the missing sections and then he varnished the entire work.

Another restoration was attempted in 1770 AD by Giuseppi Mazza and his original intention was to completely and totally restore the work. He had COMPLETELY REPAINTED 9 of the 13 faces in the painting when he was halted due to public outrage.

Afterwards the painting was further vandalized in 1796 AD by French soldiers and then again in WWII when vibrations from nearby bombs cracked the surface of the painting.

By 1977 AD the painting was so badly deteriorated that it was almost unrecognizable when efforts were undertook to have it restored yet again. This time the restoration used all of the most modern techniques and materials and this is what we see today.

And now, my question is, how could Leonardo Da Vinci have incorporated crytic meanings into The Last Supper, such as the face of Mary Magdalene, when that's not how he painted the painting IN THE FIRST PLACE! That was one of the faces which was completely redone by Michealanglo Bellotti in 1752 AD!!!

In fact, less than 10% of Da Vinci's original work remains, if that much. Therefore, the entire book is nothing but an elaborate hoax, meant to play on the gullibility and the innocence of mankind. If one wishes to see what the ACTUAL painting looked like when Da Vinci originally painted it, then one needs to travel to the Abbey of Tongerlo in Belgium. There exists an almost lifesized oil on canvas painting of what Da Vinci's Last Supper looked like before it was touched by restorers. And no, it does not look anything like the description given in Dan Brown's book.
Your friend;
LAMAR

Starr's DNA test taken from a tooth that wasn't even in the grave proved nothing except that it was one big scam. 
~Texas Jay

Fascinating thread for sure and I have a few more to go but I was struck by this specific comment and had to chime in.

Old dog, I believe it was, made the statement about having been to one site where someone was killed and left in the hole - and was called out for making it up.

My question is more practical. If you have factual knowledge someone was killed and still there, why were the authorities not called? Whoever the guy was, I'm sure he had family...and treasure tales or not, law enforcement should've been notified and whoever else related to the site. I can't imagine knowing someone is killed by some sort of treasure trap and was just left there. The idea that "they" decided to leave him there goes against the reality of law enforcement procedure, no matter the country, and that it was omitted entirely (dogs don't bark, etc) would make me highly suspicious of this dubious tale.

It's more than just "bad partner" - it's criminal. And it should be reported regardless of treasure.

Okay, finishing the topic...had to get that off my chest.