Florida Beach Find

Can anyone tell me how to tell if this is a fake or any information about this.  It is about the size of a US half dollar, and I found it this morning while beach hunting on Captiva Island, Florida [barrier island off of Ft. Meyers].  It was only about 3 1/2 down, but Hurricane Charley destroyed the area and they have done a lot of work reconstructing the beaches and a lot of dredging in the area.  DVI number of my Whites DFX was 81.

It appears to be an 8 Reale, I've found similar on the internet but with different initials.

What do you think?

WOW, that is beautiful. Its just so flawless, no signs of corrosion or ware. I'm very interested to see what the pros think.

Hi ehudson80 and welcome, sorry It's a fantasy copy of some sort, Sorry mate.
Ossy

I agree with Ossy's call. Somebody must be seeding the beaches for fun.

Sure looks clean. As a note, I would recommend never trying to clean a beach found cob (other than rinsing) before you show it to someone for an appraisal. In some cases you can significantly lessen the value of the coin.

I'm still working on finding my first beach cob. Good luck!

Stan

Great pictures.

Great pictures.

Hey, that's looking on the bright side!

Stan

Well, thanks for the information and opinions.  I suspected from the beginning, but was hoping I was wrong.  No, I didn't clean it - that's how she was when I took it out of the sand.  That is part of why I suspected it was a fake.  My mom also just came down here and she has an 8 Reale in a necklace and she said that mine is a lot lighter than hers. 

I'm back at it tomorrow 

Good luck! Hey, I would rather find a fake cob than most of the change I find up my way.

I'm back at it tomorrow

As Mel would say: "Todays the day!"

Stan

[“Life's pretty good, and why wouldn't it be? I'm a pirate, after all.”]

Thats a beautiful looking, clean coin.  Unfortunately it's probably too good to be true 

The parting lines you can see on some areas of the edge are a dead giveaway it is cast. Of course there are other telltale clues....

Stan

 

2 castles are different....

After my find today, I know the feeling. We were searching the Outer Banks in NC and found a "Fake" cob on the beach up near the dunes. This one actually had the word "COPY" stamped on it, very hard to see but with mag glass you could see it. I would agree that someone has alot of time on thier hands throwing fake coins on the beachs........still a fun find anyway, got my blood going.......Keep hunting the real ones are out there

The beaches at Sanibel & Captiva are broken shell, so while they would scour the patina off, so over time (a couple of hundred years) would they erode the features.

The beaches at Sanibel & Captiva are broken shell, so while they would scour the patina off, so over time (a couple of hundred years) would they erode the features.

If you are asking a question, the answer is yes. Sand and shell can erode a genuine cob paper thin. These finds are called razor cobs. The surf and current causes the eroding.

Our beaches in SE Florida were once completely made up of yellow, white and orange broken shell. Now, thanks to renourishment, we have ugly brown sand. If you dig deep enough, the original shell can still be found.

The beaches at Sanibel & Captiva are broken shell, so while they would scour the patina off, so over time (a couple of hundred years) would they erode the features.

If you are asking a question, the answer is yes. Sand and shell can erode a genuine cob paper thin. These finds are called razor cobs. The surf and current causes the eroding.

Our beaches in SE Florida were once completely made up of yellow, white and orange broken shell. Now, thanks to renourishment, we have ugly brown sand. If you dig deep enough, the original shell can still be found.

Well, on the gulf side you don't full force of the Atlantic constantly pounding away. In actuality the density of coins, particularly gold, causes them to quickly sink below the sand, so it is not necessarily a constant tumbling action. I think that a good bit of detail is lost to corrosion, especially in coins that were known to be lower in silver content (stealing from the king).

Stan

Ah. Same thing here on East Coast. The density causes gold and silver to sink deep in the sand, and they will stay there until exposed by a storm. But those that are caught in the current would erode and I would imagine quicker if caught in the pounding east coast waves. Good point.

I may not have understood his question. If the question is can broken shell erode a coin, the answer is yes IMO. But its the surf and current causing the erosion. Shell and sand alone will not erode unless movement is involved, such as the to and fro of an inlet. Yes, I agree that saltwater can corrode silver, but I think its the movement that scours and erodes features, whether it be sand or broken shell.

How are ya Big C?

I wasn't trying to relate sinking in the sand to either coast. I should have separated the thoughts a little more. I agree with the thoughts of surf and current, but there have been a few 1715 fleet gold coins found on the beaches that look as pristine as the day they were lost. Could be just good fortune that detail remains on a coin of such soft metal, but could also have something to do with gold's corrosion resistance. A lot of the Atocha silver coins were found in almost the same relative position as they probably were in when in their chest, but corrosion had taken its toll on what may have been originally good detail. Of course, that could have been all scoured off with the Fisher's poor conservation practices (tumble polish).   

On another topic, have you thought any further about putting your fake cob database on a web site?

Stan

Hello Stan. I havent organized anything yet, so I shouldnt have called it a database, but I am still collecting and saving any known replica pictures. If its on eBay, I try to save the entire page. I have purchased some replicas. I dont know the first thing about websites, but maybe a good idea. I think I need to learn to save to disc or I could lose it all.

Yes I agree silver can corrode without any water movement and gold will not. I also agree more likely to have movement on the East Coast. I meant to say the sand and shell will scour a coin with movement. The saltwater will corrode silver with or without movement.

I dont know if I understood his question if it was a question. I think he asked if a shell beach would erode the features from a coin.  

The beaches at Sanibel & Captiva are broken shell, so while they would scour the patina off, so over time (a couple of hundred years) would they erode the features.

What is making the coins go away is electro galvanic corrosion.
Especially in the silver coins that have an alloy.   Two dissimilar
metals in a salt water solution amount to a battery of sorts.

Nature kind of in its own way is re claiming the original elements
the coin is constructed out of.   Ever heard the term noble metals?

The green in "greenies" is the copper (the alloy) leaving the coins first.

At the Jupiter site - except for some "mysterious" beach finds...
The best preserved coins have been found around canons or canon balls that
have acted as anodes and in a manner absorbed some of the corrosive effects
of the saline (salt water) solution.
I hopes this help some of you following this post to understand
these "timeless time capsules are - in point of fact decorating as the clock is ticking.

 
 

One of the best references on silver corrosion and conservation can be had for free at the following link.

http://nautarch.tamu.edu/crl/conservationmanual/File13.htm

I've had this bookmarked for some time. 

Stan

I agree with Ossy's call. Somebody must be seeding the beaches for fun.

Sure looks clean. As a note, I would recommend never trying to clean a beach found cob (other than rinsing) before you show it to someone for an appraisal. In some cases you can significantly lessen the value of the coin.

I'm still working on finding my first beach cob. Good luck!

Stan

If anyone sees anyone seeding beaches with these fakes.......report them to the authorities for littering....that is after you beat them senseless with your scoop.

What kind of freak gets their jollies of spending time and money by putting these out on the beaches.  Sick people for sure.

I agree with Ossy's call. Somebody must be seeding the beaches for fun.

Sure looks clean. As a note, I would recommend never trying to clean a beach found cob (other than rinsing) before you show it to someone for an appraisal. In some cases you can significantly lessen the value of the coin.

I'm still working on finding my first beach cob. Good luck!

Stan

If anyone sees anyone seeding beaches with these fakes.......report them to the authorities for littering....that is after you beat them senseless with your scoop.

What kind of freak gets their jollies of spending time and money by putting these out on the beaches.  Sick people for sure.

I agree, but at least a fake cob is better then digging up pennies and pulltabs, once you get over the disappointment of it being fake........

..a fake cob is better then digging up pennies and pulltabs, once you get over the disappointment of it being fake........

I agree. I hate zincolns.

Hudson,

They look like this.

I can barely make out the "171" of the date on the coin at the top left with these higher mag pics. Also the assayer J on both coins at the top, which is by far the most common in 1715 fleet coins.

Stan

Stan,

Any word on my secret map? Hahaha!! Hang in there dude.

Dave

Stan,

Any word on my secret map? Hahaha!! Hang in there dude.

Dave

I just wrote a follow-up inquiry to the archives. I would have done it sooner, but I didn't want them to feel pestered. Look forward to seeing you in National Geographic!

Stan

Stan,

Your the man!!!!

Dave

hey the lion looks like a crab

Sure dosent look stamped
Looks like its a cast
Brady

Sure dosent look stamped
Looks like its a cast
Brady

It is. Its a common cast pot metal souvenir. Its plated with a shiny metal, probably nickle.