Brass Thingey?

Lovely small solid brass (heavy) padlock?  It has six barrels which revolve, each has seven letters of the alphabet on, all quite random.  It measures 3.5cm x 3.5cm.  If it is a brass padlock, what would it have been used on and why letters not numbers?  I'm intrigued and would value any information someone could give.  There must be so many possible combinations to opening this it would take years!

Welcome to treasurenet!

I'm intruiqued too... why NOT letters instead of numbers?  Would it matter?

Does it resemble this one?

Hi, yes it does without the bits at the bottom.  I'm having problems inserting the image, but will try again.

Hi, yes it does without the bits at the bottom.  I'm having problems inserting the image, but will try again.

cool... would love to see it... and, is there any markings on it at all?

Eeek!  Didn't mean for the photo to be that big.  You can tell I'm a newbie.  There are no marks on it apart from the indented letters on the barrels.  Do you think it might have been put on a small safe door?  No, that's a daft idea, I suppose you could saw through the top bit quite easily.

Have you played around with it to see if you can make words out of the rows of letters?

Wow...cool piece.  I don't have a clue, but am very intrigued.  I can't really picture how it would open.  The top bar appears to be solidly connected to the arms that come up from the "letter wheels".  If it comes apart down at the "wheels", what keeps it from falling apart?    I was thinking maybe a sophisticated decoder, but it don't seem to have the full alphabet?  Maybe it is a lock and I'm just not seeing its opening point.

this is way cool. can't wait to see what it is!

mike

began looking on the net found this. first time sent picture hope it works i will add link.

http://www.crookedbrains.net/2009/05/locks.html

scroll all the way down to see a similar lock as yours.

mike

here goes trying the picture.

i've gone crazy. i must be wrong:
here's a link to a new style of barrell word combination locks. holly cow never seen such a thing.

diantire.ca/browse/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT<>prd_id=845524443295278&bmUID=1246337306014

Yes, I've tried forming the letters into a word, wondered if it might be a brand name or similar.  If you knew the correct combination, the whole right side would come off.  It has some play in it and you can feel it would come away.  Thanks for your comments and help.

[a-p-p-l-e]

Hey,
 Try a-p-p-l-e just like Tom Hanks !!!! How funny would it be if it worked. LOL

PLL

hey you know it doesn't have to spell a word. wow, you got to take it to your local lock smith, you know they've got years of experience opening locks. some of the older locks may be easier to open.

why not list the letters in column for us to see? i notice all the others are 5 across but yours six? there is a formula to figure how many possibilities you know 10's of thousands don't sound bad. it's better than the lottery.


mike

Thanks Mike, definitely some similarities between picture and mine. 

Thanks for the suggestion PLL - can't try apple as a letter as there is no letter A in the first tumbler (there are also six tumblers!). 

Still, I do believe we're getting somewhere.  So, definitely a padlock, definitely old.  Shame it has no maker's name on it. 

six has got to be an upgrade from the five like all the others seen so far!!!     

Here we go - here are the letters, your time starts now....


Z   E   Z   D   Z   E
L   U   L   A   L   I
H   C   H   B   H   Y
G   V   G   N   Y   V
T   K   J   O   S   K
X   R   T   U   X   R
F   P   F   C   F   P

gulchy
this should be fun

Sorry, not gulchy

I have seen several locks like that one or at least similar.  I had one on my hunting lease for years, but when all my pals got older and blinder we had to change it.  None of us old farts could read the letters!  I also had a barrel type combination on a big steel lock box.  You know like the one Al Gore put Social Security in....  Anyway I worked on it on and off for several years, just every time I would think of it.  One day it popped open and.....I wasn't paying attention to what combination I had put in it!  DUH!!  Now it sits in the top of my closet with many of my "treasure" finds in it and some coins, but it is locked open now!  Good luck on getting this one open, but don't forget to write down the combo you use!  Monty

Here is a similar one on ebay-

http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-English...1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Sorry, not gulchy

OK, try these..
''GELOSY''
''TETCHY''
''TUFOLI''
''ZUFOLI''
and my favorite, ''LETUSE''   like in let use.
These are real words believe it or not!
Scott

I may be off but 7^6 = 117649  so there's 117649 possible combinations! It been a while since I did Permutations/Combinations, so my brain may be broken.

Betcha the second letter is "E" or "U". 

That is one cool lock, good luck with it. Any idea as to its age?

I take it the original post has the photo of the lock in question?

 This type of lock can be opened by feel. Were is slides and or pulls apart will have a bit of slack in it. On plays with the tumblers untill that slack increase. Not the tumbler you moved while doing so.  One keeps doing such until the slack  keep increasing opens the lock.

 LOL it is a game of time, and I doubt most folks would do it.  One of them things to leave around were you can play with it.

As a locksmith, I would be interested in purchasing it. If you are interested in selling, send me a PM.
Scott

figuring the letters wasn't any fun.

lostcauses method makes good sense.

LUGOSI. It's a lock given to members of the Bela Lugosi fan club.

Kidding. Best word I could come up with.

If you do figure out how to open it with the trial and error tumbler feel method...let us know what was spelled out.

Good luck.

bela lugosi -- you had me going there for a minute.   

Here we go - here are the letters, your time starts now....


Z   E   Z   D   Z   E
L   U   L   A   L   I
H   C   H   B   H   Y
G   V   G   N   Y   V
T   K   J   O   S   K
X   R   T   U   X   R
F   P   F   C   F   P

akl439
hi im an armchair treasure hunter, as well as an MDer, and this looks like some kind of cipher,
break the code, and it will give you keyword, to open lock
though ive never seen a coded lock b4, which is the coolest thing ive ever seen, by the way
anyway im going to take the coded letters, and a pic of lock, over to tweleve.org, an armchair
treasure forum, and see if the code, to open  the lock, can be broken, there are some smart folks
there, they know how to break codes

I'm thinking that if these were mass produced there was a preset combination... no "code" to speak of.

I also think it may have been somewhat a novelty to have letters instead of numbers on the drum - used as a selling technique. 

I'm thinking that if these were mass produced there was a preset combination... no "code" to speak of.

I also think it may have been somewhat a novelty to have letters instead of numbers on the drum - used as a selling technique. 

Right, couldn't figure out a word that was a product or company either. Lugosi was it except for various gibberish words.

there is a co. that has a word lock, its different it can be reset,
and akl439, does not look like it can be reset
http://www.wordlock.com/
http://wordlock.com/padlocks/

i think this is a novelty item, that uses code,
like a brain teaser type of thing, even though mass produced,
with a 6 letter combo, and in this case 15 letters,
not repeated, and from the 26 letter alpha,  and 42 place holders
thats a lot of combos,that could be used
im sure the co. provided the word, to open the lock,
in case you couldnt figure out the code, i think its just a fun
novelty item, that akl439, wants to open

Z   E   Z   D   Z   E
3 Zs, 2 Es, 1D, this line could have been 4Zs, and 2 non repeateing letters
or 2Zs and 3Ds, and 1E
sorry i re sized akl439 pic and forgot to attach

  

what if it read right to left --- backwards?              

What if it wasn't even in English ? LOL

PLL

after more research, ive found this lock, is prob not a novelty item
so i think maybe?  IM WRONG
the lock that akl439, has is prob a very old lock

i have not found away to open it yet, still working on that

proof of my mistake
http://www.aschkenes.com/Letter%20Combination%20Locks%201.htm

the only thing i found out about it is/ .....and underlined in RED/ trick boxes? see jpg
trick boxes makes me wonder if their is a code though, to find the keyword
see jpg, if u cant read info on pg
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked...pment-of-modern-types#ref=ref222513

Found a pic of a similar one that is open  


I, like lostcauses, have found the feel method very useful when opening old combination locks of this type.  Should be possible to do if the mechanism is like the one pictured.

http://www.aschkenes.com/Letter%20Combination%20Locks%201.htm
 on this page looks like 2nd row and 2nd lock from the left is the lock....

PLL








[/quote]

Found a pic of a similar one that is open 


I, like lostcauses, have found the feel method very useful when opening old combination locks of this type.  Should be possible to do if the mechanism is like the one pictured.

What was the opening combination

PLL

I have the newer version lots of plastic on tumblers but, it is with letters not #'s and to set it there are plunger you push at same time on the ends then set the letter combo yo want , then anytime you want to open it dial those letters. I do like your brass one better!

Like AU24K, I too am a locksmith. I have one of those which is a four letter version, and it uses the name "baby" to open it. It most likely is a word, but doesn't have to be. for a locksmith, they are pretty simple to open. You may want to take it to a local one to open for you, it shouldn't cost too much. it is pretty old, I'm trying to look it up in my reference books, and will post a followup if I can find it. Good Luck!
Jim.
P.S. I'd also be interested in purchasing it, if you decide to try to sell it. 

Interesting puzzle I have been racking my brain on...


One question--there are six wheels (places) in the word.  Are there seven letters or six letters on each dial?



Regards,


Buckleboy

Interesting puzzle I have been racking my brain on...


One question--there are six wheels (places) in the word.  Are there seven letters or six letters on each dial?



Regards,


Buckleboy

post 15 dude...

Interesting puzzle I have been racking my brain on...


One question--there are six wheels (places) in the word.  Are there seven letters or six letters on each dial?



Regards,


Buckleboy

post 15 dude...

I saw that, but it appears that only 3 letters are visible on each dial, even if the top or bottom one is turned almost out of view, so I wondered if there was six letters on each dial rather than seven.   

I've been staring at this thing for a while now, and all I've got is "HE LOSE" and "GET ALE" 

What if it wasn't even in English ? LOL

PLL

french   

lefoxy lefuse letusk

french/spanish combo

lejose

I would like to buy a vowel,lol.

       Cool Lock,
                       Nova Treasure

how about earliest letter of alphabet each letter

FCFAFE

or the last letter each

ZVZUZY

it's just got to be

GETBYE

getuse getaxe xchose

G   U    LOSE

Any luck getting the lock open? Would love to see pictures if you get it open.

I think we can say this one is solved.  http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,259097.0.html

Would still like to know if you ever get it open though. 

Here is one similar on eBay and they cant open it either.   http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/1-Antique-Co...W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ260312511866

this post is reminding me of this post
 
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index....c,258222.msg1845775.html#msg1845775

needs closure!

Great find - love it 

I'd still be interested in buying it.
Scott

I noticed two index marks on this one versus the others, so I was thinking it might be a two-line solution.  The best I could come up with was:

T    H     Y
   C     U     P

Three word couplets are:

HE   HA   HE
       HO   HI
       GO
       TO

Let us know when the solution is found...
 

try  HUTCHY

very nice,follow the link to see more
http://www.1st-net-lock-museum.com/cl1.htm

...........and why letters not numbers?  !

Think about it.. If the place is a letter, it has 26 different variations, (a-z) whereas a number place has only ten. Makes it harder to "crack"

Would this not be irrelevant of the lock drums all have only seven fixed alpha/numeric choices anyways?  Mathematically - the chances of figuring it out would be the same.

...........and why letters not numbers?  !

Think about it.. If the place is a letter, it has 26 different variations, (a-z) whereas a number place has only ten. Makes it harder to "crack"

Would this not be irrelevant of the lock drums all have only seven fixed alpha/numeric choices anyways?  Mathematically - the chances of figuring it out would be the same.

you do got a point there!

...........and why letters not numbers?  !

Think about it.. If the place is a letter, it has 26 different variations, (a-z) whereas a number place has only ten. Makes it harder to "crack"

Would this not be irrelevant of the lock drums all have only seven fixed alpha/numeric choices anyways?  Mathematically - the chances of figuring it out would be the same.

you do got a point there!

Yep --- 7^6 = 117649  so there's 117649 possible combinations.

luluhi

...........and why letters not numbers?  !

Think about it.. If the place is a letter, it has 26 different variations, (a-z) whereas a number place has only ten. Makes it harder to "crack"

Would this not be irrelevant of the lock drums all have only seven fixed alpha/numeric choices anyways?  Mathematically - the chances of figuring it out would be the same.

you do got a point there!

Yep --- 7^6 = 117649  so there's 117649 possible combinations.

Huh... that IS strange, kinda defeats the purpose of using letters in the first place...

Some people remember letter better then numbers.