very old carvings...pic(s) JS

One thing i love doing out on my hikes is taking pictures. Back in the spring, before the heat, i walked to the end of a high ridge. Quite an awesome view from the overlook! Now the great thing about this place is that it is miles away from any town, or any ones house for that matter. There is no trail to this place other than the one i keep in my head, so not to many people have ever made it out this far one would think. id make this long hike many times before, and never seen the carvings..... today that all changed. On the rocks at the overlook, or lookout there where good old carvings, glad i had my camera. This very well could be a big swift clue, in the picture below you will see what look like turkey tracks, JS, and a few other strange carvings. These carvings are located on the ridge over from where i found a mine entrace, at a certain point on this ridge you can look over and see the mine opening....please share what you think, id love to figure out what the carvings are on the top left side of the rock in the top pic...........enjoy the pic(s)     -Ki-

Very nice pictures.. do I see bits of flint in the rock?

That is a great pic Ki!  One can actually tell that some type of a drill was used to carve the JS!

Ralph and I have researched many aspects of Swift and have come to the conclusion that the reason the Scottish Co. was able to manipulate extra pay from Swift and Co. was that the Scots were bringing them mining equipment from Europe.  Swift and Co. did not want anyone to know - especially the taxing authorities who would want to tax the equipment and their ore/mines, so they gave in and paid the extra "ransom" to the Scots.  So, the drill that carved the initials on your rock was probably one of the mining tools that Swift and Co. obtained from the Scots.  I know some might not find this interesting, but I personally love the "history aspect" of these treasure legends.  Ralph and I have spent several hours on the phone "brainstorming" about different aspects of Swift and Co.'s operation.  This usually works out great b/c, while I am in the field, Ralph is back in VA on the East Coast researching things in the many venues he has available and getting things I find dated through his connections in Williamsburg, VA.

Ki, i can't remember if i told you about the rock bridge on swift creek. on the top corner of the bridge next to the trail, there is the exact same carving of JS, its under moss, looks to be the same size. Have you seen a picture of the buffalo rock, it has 7 of the names on it and also has one with stoner. Swifts is on it, JS same has on your rock with a faint map.  dates on it are 1761, 65, 69.  ( could it be that stoner worked with swift or did he find this rock later and added his name. there is more on it, but it wa
s to faint for my inferred camera to pull out )   

Ki, I took you photo, using my software, and found a possible clue. if you turn the photo till "JS" is facing you, there looks as there may be two "turkey tracks". one is part of the indention to the right of the "JS", and one runs above it, very faint. could it be these are directions? Who knows. map your location, and cross the directions, and see where it leads you. the other carvings look like other searchers, cause they were careful to get away from the directions on the other part of the rock. just an opinion, hope it helps.

-swiftfan-

swiftsearcher, boomer, swiftfan.....
  Thanks for the feedback on these carvings, your absolutely right swiftsearcher looks like a drill did carve the JS in the rock. I was wondering what type of tool could have been used to carve the JS. I'm like you swiftsearcher, i love the history along with the treasure legends.

Boomer, i haven't seen the JS on rock bridge, but you have told me about it. I made a quick trip to rock bridge today, but there was alot of people there. I looked for it but couldn't find it right off, did you say it is covered? I'll look for it the next time i have free time and can look around. Is it on top the bridge or on the side? You say it looks dead on the JS in my picture, id love to photograph it for my photo records.

Swiftfan, your right about there being a faint outline of a map. I've been trying to figure it out ever since i took the picture. But your right people did not carve in that area of the rock for a certain reason, I'm not sure if its a map of the ridge or a map to the next clue, carving, or key area. I'm slowly decoding the carvings though, but finding the JS makes the mines and legend even more real for me.
Thanks for everyones feedback,           -Ki-

ki, when you are facing the bridge looking east, on the top at the left corner. i was looking around and noticed the moss on that corner, i eased it up and there was the JS, it was cut about 1/2" deep. i layed the moss back down over it.  i hope it has not been chipped away. there use to be a road sign up above that told of silver mining by swift and it was taken down. know the cabin and trailer area for sight seers, i asked the ranger there about the sign and he said that to many people were snooping around. and several things have been done away with. kind of spooky about what he meant.     

boomer,
          i think i know what part of the bridge you are talking about, i never got on top of it because of all the people. It was a really nice day yesterday, plus it being a weekend, i could see why so many where there. Its the most people ive seen there in a long time. I got a question for ya boomer, On lower devil's creek ive heard of the same JS carving being found there as well, have you heard anything like this?. Ive seen the same carving of the JS id found just like the JS carving in Mike Steely's book, i think it was on either upper or lower devils creek in wolfe co. does anyone know of the where abouts of any others?       -Ki-

on lower devil there is an SJM with compass trowel and square. The man that owns the farm up on the flat told me that when he was a boy, that was not on that rock. he said that three men were there making a video on the swift mine and putting out a book on this. he never saw them put the carving there, but he feels they did it. now there is a JS and an arrow pointing northwest at the vary end of upper devil on the flat and i think its vary old because it is vary faded. it would be an easy ride to this area from the big sandy. 

boomer,
           thanks for helping jog my memory, i do remember it being a SJM now. One has to wonder with all the carvings out there now, that in the time since Swift and crew there have been many carvings made, mainly to fool people into looking in the wrong place or to make unbelievers believe. If you know what to look for the older carvings will be harder to find, with them being exposed to weather, and covered with moss, the newer carvings stand out better. I have seen some like this, very old carvings right beside newer carvings. I also believe that some older carvings have been erased on certain key landmarks by the pubic love to leave their name, and by this, old carvings, or rocks get defaced.

One thing with the Swift legend id love to figure out is Swifts two trails into, and out of the KY wilderness. He did leave some carvings on rocks, but most being on trees that are long since gone by the logging days.....   Safe & Happy Hunting     -Ki-

Ki, i have this site, that tells about the early trails into Ky and of silver being found by the WPA, For some unknown reason, it won't pull in the link. so we have to do it the old way
 
                       Appalachian Stories, Poetry, Recipes and Inspirational Humor
                  
  Once in, look at top and click on family stories, than go down to, History of the mountain - hoyt mullins interview.
  The guy in the photo has walked every trail and some where around here i have his story of following 4 trails of swifts. (take a look at the section on mountain cooking).    

try again                                  www.dancingonmountaintops.com

i posted a pic of this carving again to mainly show the size, in the lower left hand corner you can see the tip of my boot in the picture. There looks as if their is a faint outline of a map carved on the rock, not sure if its a map of the ridge these carvings are on, and pointing out key places..not sure???  -ki-

Hey guys thought id post a couple more pics, maybe hoping that someone could toss a suggestion if something jumps out of the picture.
I do see maybe some indian carvings as well......  

Thought id reply again to post a pic of the rock bridge, a very important swift clue.....  next time im here ill look real good for the JSM carving you spoke of Boomer...  -Ki-

Rock Bridge: ahh yes jog the old brain. someone told me that there was a carving on the underside of the bridge are near the arch of the bridge near the water line. just keep an eye out. can't be sure on this, it was a long time ago that i was told this. 

There are a few story going around about how they found a cashe when putting the Mountain Parkway in, in the early 60's. Someone and also my uncle has made to light about the parkway being built over top the great cave. They said they had found a cave clearing for the way of the road, they claim that a dumptruck load of something was brought out of it, and then it was covered up and the road run just in front of it, it was suppost to be found just past the place where the rest area is going towards Wolfe co. on the right hand side. My uncles freind who had searched for Swifts mine for many years give up claiming the Mountain Parkway was built over the spot....
I for one dont belive this, as the cave Swift spoke of was a old Shawnee burrial ground, if anything like this was found it would have stoped the work for a bit, and the find would have been known about, as its a historical place as well. I dont think they would have just destoyed it like that........If there are any other storys going around please take the time to share........   -Ki-

Well Ki, that sometimes isn't the case. Here where I live, there were some indian caves I used to go to when I was a kid. Well, there was a mining company that stripped the land, and supposedly blasted the property where the caves were, against the wishes of the landowners. Because I guess legally they had the right. I haven't been able to get back in there for years, and with the change of the land, I don't know if I could ever find it again. Now that I think about it, kinda sounds familar, don't it?....lol

I totally agree...i cant even imagine how much things have changed around here, before the whole settlement rush.

On the last trip to RockBridge i did find a couple carvings, one being "WS" doubtfully a swift mark but still sparked my intrest about John Swifts name being William Swift, also heard some story's about Swifts brother being named William...

 Thousands of acres of my childhood stomping grounds have been rent asunder by D9 Cats and greedy coal operators .
 It's frustrating to find markers on untouched ground and look back to a spoil bank and the same when you look forward . Like getting the Queen of Spades passed to you with no backers and there you sit......Gonna get your butt kicked .

Thousands of acres of my childhood stomping grounds have been rent asunder by D9 Cats and greedy coal operators .
 It's frustrating to find markers on untouched ground and look back to a spoil bank and the same when you look forward . Like getting the Queen of Spades passed to you with no backers and there you sit......Gonna get your butt kicked .

LoL i see your point there....Id feel more comfortable sitting at the table holding a Ace king of spades....

truckinbutch
                you mention D9 cats and coal operators sounds like their tearing up the land around where you live, they gotta have that coal "money in their eyes" in other words destruction.... This is what i believe happened to many swift markers, in the time since swift, his marks on trees and rocks where destroyed by coal mining, the building of roads and other things we use in our everyday life......

 Such is 'progress'.

check these old carvings out.... notice in the first picture under the top carving you can see older carvings in the rock

also a carving of a face, circles, and C G

After further study of this carving, I asked for the help of Mike Steely. I sent him a picture of this carving to get his opinion of what some of these marks could be. The picture is below. With his software he was able to find a faint "SWIFT" next to the JS...He also found a few others that i could not make out. The location of this rock and carving are exposed to weathering, I'm glad i got this picture before the wind and weather erased the carving for good.......Thanks for your help Mike.
Here is what he found....

If you notice on the top right hand side there is a 1763, i have outlined in this picture. Also could be a 1768
Also found a "Mundy"...

I know this was a ancient symbol before the nazi's adopted it. It looks to be one of the two i have outlined above, anyone have any clues to what this symbol could mean?

   I do see the one symbol... where the "arrow" is pointing;   it is a SUN WHEEL, from INDIA (VERY OLD); however, the "ANCIENTS" had the arms pointing in a CLOCK-WISE
direction, and the NAZI made it a SWASTIKA, by pointing the "arms" in the COUNTER CLOCK-WISE
direction... STILL a POTENT "symbol" of protection.  YOUR "symbol" is "incomplete"... MAY be MORE of a MAP, DUNNO.     OTHER "symbols" look familar... gotta get out my "Symbols/Codes
books" & files.   Will try to get back to you, on such.  

Ki, this is interesting.  At a potential entrance to a cave system I believe might have been Swift's "storehouse", over a year ago, I found a Swastika carved near the entrance (I think only Ralph knew this before I posted it here).  It was a very old carving and very deep - had moss growing inside it.  Anyway, I was CERTAIN this was the way to get inside this cave system.  However, there were some HUGE rocks in the way and I was unable to gain access - I don't know if this was from the large earthquake of 1811/12 or where, according to some journals, Mundy brought down this part of the cave on some members, or what, but they (these rocks) were definitely blocking the way deeper inside!

Ki, when you have time, e-mail me personally at joejackson1919@comcast.net.  I have something private I would like to discuss with you that I don't want to post here.  Thanks!

    WELL!  It looks like we gotta look at the "symbols" within the context of time, and "place";  MY guess of the "symbols" on yer rock, COULD be "MASONIC", "PIRATES", "BRIT.
ALCHEMICAL", or "plain old" T codes from "INDIANS", SPANISH, "KNIGHTS TEMPLAR" (connected with "PIRATES").   SLIGHTLY "off-topic"... in PENNSYLVANIA, look for Germanic RUNES, HEX "signs",
CELTIC (Scot/Irish) signs;   SHENANDOAH VALLEY - CELTIC, HEX "signs"; and EVERYWHERE... HEBREW
"symbols"... MOSTLY "signs" of PROTECTION... "watching over our ABUNDANCE".  In terms of "reading"... MAPS, WAYBILLS, etc.; THAT will take LONGER.  

    FURTHER!  EVERYONE should review "Hawkeyes" own... Treasure
Hunter's University "web-site"... even tho, it is focused on SW USA.   He has Church, Mine, & Treasure
Symbols; Danger Signs/Symbols; Turtle Signs/Symbols; Measurement Signs/Symbols, etc.  KEYNOTE:
"MANY of these signs/symbols have multiple and hidden meaning..."     http://www.treasurehuntersuniversity.com/ 

  Thanks Rebel......

Ki, this is interesting.  At a potential entrance to a cave system I believe might have been Swift's "storehouse", over a year ago, I found a Swastika carved near the entrance (I think only Ralph knew this before I posted it here).  It was a very old carving and very deep - had moss growing inside it.  Anyway, I was CERTAIN this was the way to get inside this cave system.  However, there were some HUGE rocks in the way and I was unable to gain access - I don't know if this was from the large earthquake of 1811/12 or where, according to some journals, Mundy brought down this part of the cave on some members, or what, but they (these rocks) were definitely blocking the way deeper inside!

Ki, when you have time, e-mail me personally at joejackson1919@comcast.net.  I have something private I would like to discuss with you that I don't want to post here.  Thanks!

Ive heard a oldtimer just the other day talk about how Swift, Mundy used a couple kegs of gunpowder to blow a ledge just above the opening of the Cave, and covered the opening this way. sounded interesting.......I sent you an e-mail hope you get it.


Very interesting "mine"treasure"important place"  
"Gammada" what could this word mean?  .... Done a search but no matches
 

"Gammada "is a old "Christian symbol",called{ Crux Gammada}, symolizes the "Trinity", swastika looking image. If it were{ boxed in} possibly ? a Masonic image.

Thanks ghostdog.........

Would the French have used this Symbol??? 

   MAYBE... "google" TREASURE HUNTERS UNIVERSITY as it MAY help...  SIGNS, SIGNS, SIGNS!
 

I think they are referring to the Spanish or English.....   French could be accustom to both maybe??? "with their symbols" 

Ki, this is interesting.  At a potential entrance to a cave system I believe might have been Swift's "storehouse", over a year ago, I found a Swastika carved near the entrance (I think only Ralph knew this before I posted it here).  It was a very old carving and very deep - had moss growing inside it.  Anyway, I was CERTAIN this was the way to get inside this cave system.  However, there were some HUGE rocks in the way and I was unable to gain access - I don't know if this was from the large earthquake of 1811/12 or where, according to some journals, Mundy brought down this part of the cave on some members, or what, but they (these rocks) were definitely blocking the way deeper inside!

Ki, when you have time, e-mail me personally at joejackson1919@comcast.net.  I have something private I would like to discuss with you that I don't want to post here.  Thanks!

Ive heard a oldtimer just the other day talk about how Swift, Mundy used a couple kegs of gunpowder to blow a ledge just above the opening of the Cave, and covered the opening this way. sounded interesting.......I sent you an e-mail hope you get it.


Very interesting "mine"treasure"important place"  
"Gammada" what could this word mean?  .... Done a search but no matches
 

Ralph and I have a couple older versions of the journal that states Mundy "brought down" the storehouse on the crew inside as well.  We both thought about this at the "Swastika Entrance", as it seemed to be a large cavern in the middle of a horseshoe shaped (and hidden) cliff section behind the rock house the crew lived in.  The back of this large entrance was blocked by several huge rocks, as if it had been blown up!

  Ki,SS," Crux-Gammada" ,maybe a Greek or Latin  phrase to start with. As you are aware of many different groups,includeing native American Indians used the swastika for symbolism,The Trinty refers to Father/Son/ Holyghost, as you already know. I think your cave carveing{swaskita} could be any group,,But the {Gammada carveing},in my opinon would be Euorpean related..Gammada might be a referance to buried bodies in that location,like R.IP. Not sure you may have already figured this you in your notes above, I"m late to the party . gd luck

Ghostdog, you, like our Masonic Friend Rebel, are a WEALTH OF KNOWLEDGE and your posts are HIGHLY APPRECIATED BY ME!

For the record, I was not aware yet of the connection with buried bodies.  This makes PERFECT SENSE now, as the area I was entering with the Swastika and other carvings (many covered by moss now) could have been the entrance Mundy blasted shut to their "storehouse".  As the story goes, members of the crew were trapped inside to die - hence, the bodies!  Thanks for your insight on this, as it is reconfirming my belief that I was at the right entrance (the only problem being that there are tons of rock in the way of entrance)!

o.k. that's it, I'm OFFICIALLY hooked...

Thanks, guys....
 

I couldn't agree more with swiftsearcher, and thank you guys so much for your insight!!!

buried bodies, graves, and or a tomb would make perfect sense, which I'm leaning more towards a possable tomb being found at my site. Possably to do with "finding the skull of a Indian Princess". I know the Indians came back to this area looking for such, also the carving "101".
Also the "Gammada symbol" if used by the Indians would fit my location perfect, cause of the known Indian activity around my site. Thanks for your insight ghostdog, also many thanks to Rebel as well...

Swiftsearcher, i received your email, I'll jog through my notes and write you back this evening....

    I'm gonna "clarify" how "buried bodies" MAY be "part" of yer "treasure
legend(s); based on the MARSHALL PLANTATION CSA TREASURY story, outside of Lynchburg, Va.
"bordering" Bedford County... beale KNOWS this one, 'cause I told him about it.   Dried up old well; "slaves" from plantation "clean out" the well... bury CSA "assets" ($$$$$$$$$, jewelry, "weapons",
etc.), down about 20 to @ 15' or so.   "Slaves" are killed and buried "atop" that "treasure" in the well.  
Topped off, with a Mound of earth, and a tree planted on top, as a "marker"... NEVER been found.
Is it true?  DUNNO. "Rumors" has it.... @ FOUR MILLIONS dollars worth.  

In this mine Ive found, there is a hollow spot in the floor....could be something the Indians came back here looking for? Story's are that they was looking for a skull of an Indian princess, if the story holds truth. This mine could of been a Indian tomb instead, i guess i gotta put the time and work in and dig to find out for sure....but with all the signs, the hollow sound in the mine, and the many Indian carvings...I'm really excited to figure this out this winter......this is what i was referring to with the "bodies thingy"   
 thanks Reb... 

Been studing this carving some, look at the "treasure hunter U page", "mine church important place" at the botom you will see circles....Look at the carving of the circles they almost are a match.....

I crudly drew on this picture to give people an idea of the circles, also there is a box under the circles, name or date has faded.
above the circles is a C  G , could be Gist's mark, it is known he stood on this spot back in 1751 as Gist's journal tells.....

The circle carvings could also be a outlined "C G" carving....with the date in the box which has since faded.....
 

Also the R on the JS carving is "french"..... very likely could have been one of the frenchmen who was in Swifts crew

Hi guys , your  U could be a Mule shoe, if it were pointing down might mean{ treasure below} if its horizontial{ enroute to treasure,keep going}. In my opinon this would be a Spanish symbol. Enclosed rectangle,{treasure buried in box or chest }Spanish also.
And the circles could be rocks with treasure being in the {center or below],Spanish.On another thread issue, the Masonic G,is a symbol, not really a G,with the indented notch in place. Lots of different possibiltys  in your caves , gd luck.

ghostdog,
            sorry to confuse you, i was meaning symbols referring to the link Rebel posted above "treasure hunters university" I think this is what you where meaning by the U, but i could be wrong. However there is what seems to be a mule shoe on the rock with the JS carving, or it also resembles a bell as well...I'll include the picture pointing this out

If this is a mule shoe it points down, could be a bell, or letter. Could be Spanish, but more likely french. Alot of Indian and french activity was located around this area up the river some. Alot of oldtimers would carve a rectangle and carve their initials, or date in the center.



Like so.....this carving was also a great find, he was one of my ancestors from back in the 1770's. This carving is in a different location of where i found the JS carving. This is a carving of James Stuart, Daniel Boones brother-in-law.
You are very correct though could be many possibility's, thanks for your help ghostdog in helping me figure out these carvings  

  Glad to be of help, not looking for ANYTHING in return. Would like to see you and  SS  SCORE  bigtime, even if you keep that imfo low-key, just Score. Your possible" muleshoe marker "looks older than the J and S on the outsides,to me. Looks to me like the French,English,and Spanish, all  co-mingled at one time or another at this location. A lot to unravel ,gd luck.

Glad to be of help, not looking for ANYTHING in return. Would like to see you and  SS  SCORE  bigtime, even if you keep that imfo low-key, just Score. Your possible" muleshoe marker "looks older than the J and S on the outsides,to me. Looks to me like the French,English,and Spanish, all  co-mingled at one time or another at this location. A lot to unravel ,gd luck.

Don't worry Ghostdog.  I have kept a lot low-key.  However, when the BIG Score is finally made, with guidance from THE EVER LIVING GOD, there will be some here that will know the truth and what was found and you are one of them!

Glad to be of help, not looking for ANYTHING in return. Would like to see you and  SS  SCORE  bigtime, even if you keep that imfo low-key, just Score. Your possible" muleshoe marker "looks older than the J and S on the outsides,to me. Looks to me like the French,English,and Spanish, all  co-mingled at one time or another at this location. A lot to unravel ,gd luck.

      Even if no treasure remains, just having the pictures would be a good enough score for me 
If this is a muleshoe marker it looks to be on its side, actually pointing towards the mine close by.....I agree on the connection of the place
being marked by "spainsh, french/indian" and then "Swift"  your right theres alot to unravel, and may take some time..... There is so much info id love to tell about this place, but just keep it to myself.... lose lips can sink ships...lol good luck on your endeavors as well ghostdog!

Hi Ki,SS, Forgot to mention, years ago when I explored more caves than I do now,I used a "Ultrviolet lite" to help enhance cave markings. I learned this trick from a 'Karl von Muller book". I haven"t seen any mention of this being used, so I just kicked it in. Thanks for your kind words, as always good luck.

Hi Ki,SS, Forgot to mention, years ago when I explored more caves than I do now,I used a "Ultraviolet lite" to help enhance cave markings. I learned this trick from a 'Karl von Muller book". I haven"t seen any mention of this being used, so I just kicked it in. Thanks for your kind words, as always good luck.

I haven't used the "Ultraviolet lite" yet, once i stumble upon the right cave I'll have to try it......... 

Ki, i can't remember if i told you about the rock bridge on swift creek. on the top corner of the bridge next to the trail, there is the exact same carving of JS, its under moss, looks to be the same size. Have you seen a picture of the buffalo rock, it has 7 of the names on it and also has one with stoner. Swifts is on it, JS same has on your rock with a faint map.  dates on it are 1761, 65, 69.  ( could it be that stoner worked with swift or did he find this rock later and added his name. there is more on it, but it wa
s to faint for my inferred camera to pull out )   

Boomer

I'd love to see the buffalo Rock, you say it has "stoner" on it....  it very well could be that Stoner found this rock later

Hi Ki,

Wasn't the swastika shape an indian design made before germany was even a country? I know its usually found more westward but maybe not just among those tribes? Swift had indians with him. This is good stuff!

Come to find out the swastika was a Indian symbol (Shawnee) if I'm not mistaken. Indians wrote in hieroglyphs, and symbols. The symbols would have went west with them after the land here was taken. thanks Curtis...
In the next couple weeks to come, I'm going to dig in the mine i found. There is a hollow sound in the floor of the mine. I was talking with a old timer just last week telling him about the mine, and the hollow sound. He told me this "he said you know men and Indians from the old days would bury their stuff in the floors of their mines, this would keep their valuables protected from the weather, and makes for a great hiding place". He had learned his Swift story's from other old timers by listing to their story's.......The mine is just a ridge over from the JS carving, and a spot just before you get to the carving you can look across and see the mine in the cliff....I'll have more updates of this in the weeks to come......

Speaking of symbols, the "ORO" in one of the previous pictures, in Michael Paul Henson's book Lost Silver Mines and Buried Treasures of Kentucky, on page 99, it list treasure signs. "ORO" is listed as gold being nearby. You may want to dig you metal detector out and go through there again...

HH,

Swiftfan

Thanks for the tip Swiftfan. I dont have that book just yet, but i do have it ordered. I have henson's other book about Swift.
Very interesting...yes i do need to get back to this area. I will say this carving is located on the north fork of the red river if anyone out there may be wondering, this information i dont care to share.