The Cave Near Muskogee OK

I am a newbie here so please don't crucify me if you don't believe this story.

The only reason I am writing this and posting it is that I hope that someone will take this seriously and search for it. There will be those that will immediately discount this tale and cry hoax but I assure you that the source of information is of the highest form. The information does not come from a friend of a friend of someones cousin but from someone who visited the site.

I cannot give you the name of the source as we last parted on bad terms but her integrity and honesty are of the highest form for she was the Great Honored Woman of the Cherokee and Creek Nations.

The story begins with her great grandfather Jim Bullet a survivor of the Trail of Tears. When he reached the new Indian Territory he claimed some land near what is now Muskogee Oklahoma. He took the daughter of White Tobacco Sam (her name was Big Lucy) the medicine man as his wife and they built a cabin and soon a baby girl was born to them.

White Tobacco Sam had trained Jim Bullet as a medicine man and when Jim chose his land he chose the plot across the road from the ancient burial ground as he thought it his duty to look after the grounds. Jim Bullet is now buried in this same cemetery and I have seen his gravestone myself.

The cabin of Jim and Big Lucy was directly across the dirt road from the burial grounds and one day while Jim was in town running errands Lucy was washing clothes on a table on the side of the cabin. She had left the baby on a pallet of wood beside the front door of the cabin as was her usual habit for it was in the shade and cooler for the child. As she came around the corner of the cabin toward the front door she saw a large creature covered in brownish red hair leaning over her daughter. She immediately grabbed a piece of wood and attacked the creature trying to scare it off but the creature grabbed the baby and ran across the road.

Jim Bullet just happened to be riding down the road towards the cabin and saw the creature running away from the cabin and hearing his wife's cries gave chase through the burial grounds towards Saddleback Mountain. He lost sight of the creature but followed by tracking as best he could till they came to the base of the mountain where he lost the trail. He immediately galloped back into town and sounded the alarm and a posse was raised. They searched the whole area of the mountain and around it for three days and found nothing and finally gave up the search.

Jim Bullet though could not give up the search and every spare minute he had for years after he examined every square inch of the mountain and it is here that the story really begins for during his search he came across a cave and deep in the cave he found a man made wooden door and behind it all sorts of wonders.

The Great Honored Woman heard these stories passed down from her elders about a cave with the man made door and one day when she was in her late teens she decided to find this cave. She spent many days and weeks combing the mountain and finally came across the cave high on a cliff that was very difficult to attain.

In her words to me the cave had several rooms filled with rifles, swords, ammunition, food and uniforms. She never said what kind of uniforms just that they were military uniforms. There was one thing that amazed her and that was a cannon or artillery field piece. She could not figure out how it had gotten there for it must have been a very strenuous job for anyone to have gotten this thing halfway up a sheer cliff.

She took a single sword as proof that she had found the cache and returned home with it. Her father was extremely upset that she had removed the sword and ordered her to take it back which she did and never returned to the cave after that.

The cave is said to be on the eastern side of Saddleback Mountain and not noticeable until you are right on top of it. The cave can only be reached with the use of ropes and climbing skills and the area is supposed to be crawling with rattlesnakes.

Neither I nor the Great Honored Woman are of an age or physical condition to go find this place again but from what she has told me the cave is worth finding.

I don't care who believes this story or not I just wish to relay it for those who wish to seek it.

Dear Merlyn555;
What's not to believe, my friend?
Your friend;
LAMAR

I'm about 40 miles from Muskogee and my best friend lives there and has for nearly 50 years.  I'll check with him and see if he has ever heard of anything like that. He is of Cherokee Indian stock and would have heard something I think.  Monty 

Thank you very much for sharing this story...I found it very interesting, especially combined with the information that is slowly being brought to the surface....Steve

Thanks for the support guys, I know it is a rather fanciful story and bears a resemblance to other hidden treasure stories but I assure you that everything I have stated is as told to me by the Great Honored Woman.

I have been able to assertain through research of gov't documents that White Tobacco Sam, Jim Bullet and Big Lucy were actual people and did reside in the area of Muskogee OK in the latter part of the 19th century.

As I stated in the original post I have been to the site of Jim Bullets cabin and his grave and can verify that from that location you can clearly see Saddleback Mountain. I do not know if this is the real name of the place but it is the name that it was referred to by everyone I asked about it.

As for the story of a hairy creature stealing the baby I can only say that I have read one account of it but for the life of me can not remember where it was located. It does though bear a striking resemblance to the native stories of the Deer People rumored to have lived in the area.

My research continues in this area and I will post more if I come across anything new.


Merlyn

Those names mentioned sound like they are all Indians or related to Indians.  The Indians have many legends they are not apt to share with "white eyes" as the oaters call them.  I have been told of medicine men and shamans who could change into wolves, big cats, eagles or other animals under certain circumstances.  That could account for the stories of the kidnapping of the child.  There are many legends passed on among the Indian tribes that have endured for hundreds of years.  Many of them have died with the tribe elders as the young ones have adapted to the "normal" life styles and the legends and stories have been lost over time.  Who is to say or judge at the truthfulness of such tales?  No one can say for sure, but I'm sure there had to be some stimulus to bring those stories to life.  Surely there was much truth and behind many of them.  The tale under scrutiny at present seems to be more contemporary, but maybe it is the retelling of an older legend?  I'm sure the truth is in there somewhere if it can only be deciphered and understood by the present.  So, don't be quick to discount Indian lore and legend because you just might be surprised!  Monty

Great story Merlyn. I did a google search around Muskogee and I can't find any mountains. Its all flat land. Can you give me a more specific location? How about the cemetary? If I want to go visit the cemetary, exactly where would I find it?

Hello Salvor6, I am sorry to say that I can not remember the name of the road on which the cemetry is located but it is just south east of the city on a dirt road but not far off a main highway.

The grave site is off the road and well hidden by trees and undergrowth on the westernside of the road. It is a private family graveyard that is attached to ancient Indian burial grounds. You might be able to locate it by visiting one of the local band offices.

I assure you that the area around Muskogee is not that flat. There are gentle rolling hills and several large protrusions that the locals call mountains. I will try and mapquest the area and get a better description for you.

This is a fascinating read, and sure sounds authentic enough.
One thing I'm curious about...when the woman went searching for the cave did she take all the climbing gear, ropes, etc to ascend a sheer cliff to get into the cave. Was this able to be accomplished by a single person, with no help from others?
I sincerely hope the legend is true.

BW

That's a very good question Bravowhiskey and one I must say I never thought of asking.

Knowing this lady as i do though she is the curious kind who would have attempted the climb without aid and when she was unsuccessful she would have come back with the right equipment to do the job right. She is a very determined woman and very intelligent as well.

I have reviewed several maps of the area and can now tell you that the graveyard is somewhere near the small hamlets of Summit or Oktaha. I did not know that we were going to the cemetry when we started out so did not pay much attention to directions. I can only tell you that it was on a lonely dirt road well away from other houses the closest being about 3/4 of a mile away and it was somewhere not far from highway 64 or 69 not sure which one it was.

The area around Muskogee is not flat land.  There may be some, but much of it is rolling hills and steep embankements and deep gullies.  My hunting lease is only 23 miles from Muskogee and it sits at the bottom of a 930 ft. "mountain".  Actually they are too steep and high to be hills but not  tall enough to be mountains.  Monty

Oddly enough, just googled Oktaha, Ok and the northernmost street is named Cemetary rd.

I just checked out the google of Oktaha and by George you are right Whiskeybravo you might have something there. I followed the road east and there are several features on the road that seem to be familiar but this is only the gravesite we are discussing here. I remember standing in Summit and looking west and clearly seeing a "mountain" that was definitely in the shape of a saddle.

I have done some more research and there is a Saddle Mountain in the Whitchita Mountains south and west of OK City but that is too far from the area to be the same one. This mountain is not far from the site of a Civil War battle the name of which I have totally forgotten.

Now that I think about it this cache may have something to do with that battle as the contents of the cave are said to weapons ammuntion food and uniforms and the entrance to the cave is said to face the battlefield. Now wouldn't that be something to find!

       This link should be of interest. http://www.okhistory.org/outreach/military/hsbattle.html

There are a lot of references to "White Tobacco Sam" on the internet. This Google book mentions him quite a bit:

http://books.google.com/books?id=3h...q=White%20Tobacco%20Sam&f=false

It also mentions Cherokee powers of changing into animal forms. I can't help but think that's not a coincidence. He is also mentioned in various locations as one of the Natchez "Sun's": http://www.dictionpedia.com/en/Natchez_people

Great post, It combines my 2 quest treasure and probably bigfoot.

thanks for the great links some of it was new info for me.....

One particular piece of information I found very intriguing was the fact that approx 1/4 of the Confederate forces at the Battle of Honey Springs had no weapons!!!!!

With the Union forces taking their break on the Texas Road (which incidently runs right through Summit) this would put them between the Confederates and Saddleback Mountain where the store of weapons and ammunition is located. It makes no sense for an army to go into battle with so many men without weapons. It is my suggestion that the Confederates may have been trying to get to the stash when the Union Army from Fort Gibson which is to the north swept around to the west in an attempt to flank the Confederates therefore cutting off their access to armament that included field guns.

So thanks for the info guys it is all slowly coming together now and appears to have some bases in fact and history.

There is also the possibility that these weapons were stashed after the war...for future purposes...Steve

I love this story Merlyn55, thanks for sharing it. I wonder if all the stuff was lowered from the top of the hill, rather than lifted up to the cave?

naturegirl

I have no idea Naturegirl but anything is possible. Having never been to the cave or even closer than a couple of miles from the mountain I can't tell you anything about what would or would not be possible.

As for the mention of the hairy beast I only repeated what I was told by the Great Honored Woman. She spoke several times of Deer Woman and the antler people but I thought she was just relating fokelore. I found the people down there very superstitious though and know of a gravesite where the headstone of a young girl has "Murdered by human wolves" written on it. I would not have believed this if I had not seen it with my own eyes.

I found this story very interesting. I did a little research on the subject:

Jim Bullet was a leader of the Creek Nation. He built his home South of Oktaha, and it may have been near Butler Creek. The Creek had a meeting house there. The New Hope Church and cemetery was nearby, and the old tribal cemetery across the road.

The story would lead a person to believe that the chase after the baby was on a trail that was near his home. The trail apparently leads to a nearby hill that was called Saddleback. There are no hills in the area that are identified with this name, but if this place exists, it is probably located South of Oktaha.

Chimney Mountain is West, but it is quite a ways away. Chimney is steep and would be difficult to climb. The first skirmish of the Battle of Honey Spring was near Chimney Mountain. The Confederate Camp was located much further South on North side of Turkey Creek. It was strategically located close to the Texas Trail.

The cache may not have been made by either army. It could have been a collection of clothing and weapons made by the locals after the Battle.  The Confederate Camp was too far from either Chimney Mountain or Oktaha, for them to use a local cave for storage at these locations. Maybe the "mountain" or hill was located near the Camp on Turkey Creek.

Certainly, there are old timers in Oktaha that could pinpoint the location of the Bullet cabin.

You are one hundred percent correct with your research lgadbois....

From what I remember when you stood at the sight of the cabin and looked across the road toward the graveyard just to the right of it you could clearly see Saddleback Mountain. The fact that the field is cleared and obstruction free now helps quite a bit. It is a distance away but no more that ten miles tops as the terrain down there at that point does not allow you to see too far.

Jim Bullet chased the creature threw the cemetery all the way to the base of the mountain before he lost the trail. It was then he went and raised a posse from Muskogee and they searched for three days and found nothing. I am positive that a search of local newspapers of the time would reveal the details but I have so far not found any in my own research, this does not mean the story is not true only that I have not been able to verify it.

After a study of some old and new maps, I have some additional information.

Butler Creek runs to the East of Oktaha.  It then turns in a SE direction at the base of a ridge that is the northern end of Rattlesnake Mountain. The New Hope Cemetery is just East of Butler Creek, and the New Hope Church is down the road.  There are some other cemeteries nearby, though the Creek burial ground may be next to or near the New Hope Cemetery.

The Honey Springs battleground is along the Texas Road just West of Rattlesnake. Rattlesnake Mountain must be the new name for Saddleback Mountain. The slopes to the West of Jim Bullet's cabin near Butler Creek head right onto the mountain. A topo map shows the ridge is quite steep near the summit in many places.

If I lived in the area, I think I would be inclined to hike and explore the slopes of Rattlesnake. The cache, if it exists, would be a great find!

Here is some more facts about the graveyard. It is totally overgrown with mature trees and scrub brush that encompasses the entire cemetery. I doubt if Satalite photography would be able to penetrate the dense over cover, we had a hard time walking through it to find Jim's grave but his marker is a huge stone that was designed to lie flat on the ground. Only the graves closest to the road are marked, there are many more Native American graves and one white family that has an iron railing around their plot.

the bushes and trees come right out to the edge of the dirt road, the gate to the graveyard is almost totally hidden and sits back about 15 to 20 feet from the road, it is a newer metal gate but is all rusted and blends in well with the foliage.

the site across the road, Jim Bullets cabin site, is now a pasture and all signs of the cabin have either disappeared or been removed over the years. You can not see even the remains of the well.

As I said before I would only be guessing but I think you are pretty close.

Here is a topo of the area:

How odd, you do a little e-searching and find something you that fits with your personal experiences. I grew up in this general area, South of Muskogee actually.

My parents owned a liquor store and an older gentlemen they called Catfish Jim (or something like that) who was known as an avid  treasure hunter would come in every year in the spring to continue his search for a lost Spanish horde and several robbery caches in the area. It really got me going so I decided to hit the woods and look around. I found something very neat. What I found was an old small settlement. I identified the foundations of 3 old cabins...one of which still had the rock cooking pit intact outside the foundation. East of the cabins was an old small cemetery that was defiantly a transitional site. All the headstones were sandstone but one. Several had crude crosses etched in them and very few had dates and names. Several were of a traditional indian styles. One reminded me of the creek with the soul houses (cant remember that lesson) and some looked like something we see here form the Osage of a round rock mound. One day I want to go back there and check this place out again with adult eyes this time arround.... I was 12 when I ran into this place. Never seen anything like it before or since. It is on the Kiamichi (slaughtered the spelling I know) Mountain chain not far from Muskogee.

Any one interested in a search for this cave please contact me. I know the exact spot Jim and Lucy were buried.
docles68@aol.com

     Wonderful story, very intriguing. Research and comparison reveals that when young most Yeti, Sasquatch, (call them what you will,) have red or reddish-brown hair, and the hair color darkens with age. They have their own language and dialects, and some can speak broken English. Why one would take a human child I do not know. I also wonder could it be a cache from the end of the civil war, by the elusive Knights of the Golden Circle? Sounds like an excellent idea to commit any searches during the dry part of the winter months and early springtime.

Well tomorrow is the day. I am about 45 min away from this spot, and am going to take a look in the A.M.
I have done a lot of research on this treasure lead, and now it all comes together. Will take a bunch of pic,s
and post them and my finds on the site, along with some very interesting information as soon as I can.

 

Well tomorrow is the day. I am about 45 min away from this spot, and am going to take a look in the A.M.
I have done a lot of research on this treasure lead, and now it all comes together. Will take a bunch of pic,s
and post them and my finds on the site, along with some very interesting information as soon as I can.

Looking forward to the pics. Good luck and stay safe.

Well tomorrow is the day. I am about 45 min away from this spot, and am going to take a look in the A.M.
I have done a lot of research on this treasure lead, and now it all comes together. Will take a bunch of pic,s
and post them and my finds on the site, along with some very interesting information as soon as I can.

Looking forward to the pics. Good luck and stay safe.

Came back here kinda looking for those pics. Hope DocLes is okay and the snowsnakes didn't get him.

[Roland]

Just happened to cross this thread.    As a note, I believe the mountains that are referred to are the "Ouachita Mountains", not, "Whachita", although pronounced about the same. 

EDIT:   I originally posted "Wa--sh--i--ta".....without the dashes and some of the letters got deleted,  .

EDIT:<My sincere apologies for the misspelling of the OP's reference, however, it was not intentional.>   I guess it was the computer that automatically "deleted" the improper sound in the middle of the mountain name by virtue of the letter combination,  .   That makes me wonder if one were to use a legitimate term with that combination of letters, would it get deleted?   Let us see......This is from the Free Dictionary:  http://www.thefreedictionary.com/mi--deleted--s

mi--deleted-- / Sport
n [ˈmɪsˌhɪt]
(General Sporting Terms) a faulty shot or stroke
vb [ˌmɪsˈhɪt] -hits, -hitting, -hit
(General Sporting Terms) to hit (a ball) with a faulty stroke


Another EDIT:  Yep, by golly, it does......that'll learn me.   For those of you with dirty minds, you have surely figured it out......the rest of you just be careful of how you spell things,  


 

Wah-shi-tah, the short "I" sound.  :icon_scratch:I thought he said Kiamichi, Still hoping he made it there and back again safely. Looking forward to those pics.
I wonder if that applies as well to the Japanese name Yama--deleted--a.

[Roland]

Wah-shi-tah, the short "I" sound.  :icon_scratch:I thought he said Kiamichi, Still hoping he made it there and back again safely. Looking forward to those pics.

Yeah, me too.   I'm looking forward to the pics and what he found.   Just hope the "boogers" didn't get him!!  (is it okay to say 'boogers?')

Wah-shi-tah, the short "I" sound.  :icon_scratch:I thought he said Kiamichi, Still hoping he made it there and back again safely. Looking forward to those pics.

Yeah, me too.   I'm looking forward to the pics and what he found.   Just hope the "boogers" didn't get him!!  (is it okay to say 'boogers?')

Yes, unless you are talking about the nasal variety. I don't think we can say "spooks" and "haints" unless we refrain from using them as nouns. You know, I've never had any problems on this forum, nothing here spooks me and never a booger has hainted me.Lead by example. When I was in the BoyScouts we went to a summer camp on Grand Lake, Camp Wa--deleted--a. I wonder if it is tribally connected by name to Ouichita. Anyone know the meaning of the word?

[Roland]

Wah-shi-tah, the short "I" sound.  :icon_scratch:I thought he said Kiamichi, Still hoping he made it there and back again safely. Looking forward to those pics.

Yeah, me too.   I'm looking forward to the pics and what he found.   Just hope the "boogers" didn't get him!!  (is it okay to say 'boogers?')

Yes, unless you are talking about the nasal variety. I don't think we can say "spooks" and "haints" unless we refrain from using them as nouns. You know, I've never had any problems on this forum, nothing here spooks me and never a booger has hainted me.Lead by example. When I was in the BoyScouts we went to a summer camp on Grand Lake, Camp Wa--deleted--a. I wonder if it is tribally connected by name to Ouichita. Anyone know the meaning of the word?

Its Choctaw meaning is "Big Hunt­ing Ground," but it also means, "sil­ver water."   The latter meaning being in reference to the Neosho River.

I just made it back home to Phoenix. Had a great time! Picks will be posted soon. Plus it exposed a lot of answers, but it also created a lot more questions.

[Roland]

I just made it back home to Phoenix. Had a great time! Picks will be posted soon. Plus it exposed a lot of answers, but it also created a lot more questions.

Glad you made it back safely.   Apparently, you didn't have to rent a U-Haul to bring back the hoard of goodies,   ?

I just made it back home to Phoenix. Had a great time! Picks will be posted soon. Plus it exposed a lot of answers, but it also created a lot more questions.

Still waiting on an update 

Waiting...... 

[Roland]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......... ..

any news or updates?
i agree that the proximity to the battle here is intriguing, have done some research on this and have been able to verify some names and dates, that all seem to line up
i know this is re-research from what has been stated, but thats the way to do it, right?!

seems that there are a couple of sites in the area that could be Saddleback, although i have not been able to verify the names during that time

it would be interesting to hear back from those who have visited the site.