Prints in rock.

One day while walking along a river, I found a part of a rock about 11' inches long by about 5' inches wide with either a human foot print, dog  track and  small reptile tracks ( The reptile tracks were separate tracks!). The water was rising, so I took the rock to the authoritive owners, because I felt they would never find the rock again if the river filled with water all the way. Note: I asked if I would get in trouble...the authoritive owner said no, because I brought the rock to the authoritive owners. I will say this was found in Wisconsin..But the loaction will not be given as of respect for that of the onwers and of the permission for that location.
I showed the authoritive owner the tracks and they said: wow! very cool and interesting, later I did some research and I believe the separate tracks are tracks of the first reptiles ever found in this state...They would not be dinosaur but the animals that came right after the dinosaurs disappeared, even before the indians came on the land ....as far as the other prints they say they might put the rock under glass with my name as the finder. I have pictures of the rock and I did take photos of the find as proof of the find. I will put them on soon.
I don't know what they did to the rock and that was just last month, so I will contact them sometime to see if they at least had it looked at by a archeologist or specialist in the field..I am very proud to have found this boulder and happey it will never be lost to the rising waters. I believe the particular rock I found was part of a huge area of flat layerd rock that had broken a-part from rushing high waters.




Here is the same photo:lower right side of rock.Notice the digits of the fingers of the print on the rock.The prints are the size of a nickle.



Third picture is a photo I found on the net of a foot print that looks almost just like the one in the rock I found.










 

I think that the foot prints might belong to this reptile, but not sure of that fact:
Straight above the track there are two more of the same, but they are harder to see unless you look right at the rock itself!I believe it was walking on the rock ..so there is three separate foot prints all together plus that of the others in question. I am thinking the prints are some what layered, as what ever was there moved over the others being behind or in front of each other at one time.
The third picture is the tracks of the animal mentioned in this article.
What do you think? Maybe?
I am also wondering if the could have been brought down or followed the glaciers movement?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hylonomus
http://www.reptilechannel.com/repti...erp/ancient-reptile-footprints.aspx
The dog looking track is in the middle of the rock and the human looking track which might just look that way from the combination of them all together  is angled from the...... lower right following up to the left top corner. A foot can almost fit into that form.   
...
Anyone have any idea what else the prints could be?Because this is just speculation!

I can't see closeups of the areas in the rock...

Sorry, I don't see anything there that resembles a track.

With a description of the general area, and better pics, a more precise ID can be made.

I will go out on a limb... Ordovician trepostomate bryozoans...not trackway.

Sorry, I don't see anything there that resembles a track.

With a description of the general area, and better pics, a more precise ID can be made.

I will go out on a limb... Ordovician trepostomate bryozoans...not trackway.

This guy needs glasses. It's a perfect match to the museum photo. It's definitely a trackway!

Here's another 'verified' dino footprint. When the dino put his foot in the mud and then later it dries etc. it also 'deforms' or 'morphs' as gravity and the elements effect the original uniformity. This particular print is in excellent condition. There appears to be little flattening or spreading of the matrix. I think ghost surf is right on the money.

Sorry, I don't see anything there that resembles a track.

With a description of the general area, and better pics, a more precise ID can be made.

I will go out on a limb... Ordovician trepostomate bryozoans...not trackway.

This guy needs glasses. It's a perfect match to the museum photo. It's definitely a trackway!

I have glasses!

It is a superficial resemblance, at best, and not a good one at that. Compare the photo of the theropod print that you provided with the others. Now, who needs the perspective?

Since you are so sure of your ID, if I may ask, what are your credentials? Granted, mine are in invertebrate paleontology; I was educated as a geologist, but I have seen a few trackways... that does not have the characteristics of a track, e,g; it is not "mounded", and the distal regions are more shallow that the "heel" area.

Once again, not a track.

[HERE]

HERE is a release from the Kentucky Paleontological Society giving notice of some fraudulent tracks that were seen in the area. It provides a basic overview of why those "tracks" were deemed fraudulent.

The descriptions therein are very helpful in determining whether, or not, one has a track.

That was interesting reading. Wow, there are fakes of everything, even dinosaur tracks. Has conning each other always been a human trait? I suppose if the neanderthals conned each other, they must have had a sense of humor too.

ng

I have glasses!
Since you are so sure of your ID, if I may ask, what are your credentials? Granted, mine are in invertebrate paleontology; I was educated as a geologist...(Solius Suspiciousus)

ahh!! One of those 'credential' rank and file deliberaters! I believe the argument should be limited to the fossil...I read the brilliant book 'Lucy' about the discovery of Australopithecus Afarenes..many 'doubters' in the rank and file of academia..I mean the author Richard Leakey had such ...minimal educational credentials..not even a college degree? And yet in other theaters many a distinguished highly 'degreed' individuals turned out be total fakes. The young Bell Laboratory genius who so successfully fooled the elite until finally getting caught by the earnest digging of an unknown researcher, comes to mind.

So my good friend Solius Suspiciousus, in all fairness to you with your limited eye site, let the process continue with others more qualified before making such a 'rush to judgement'.
 

So, my good friend, Solius, please bear in mind these observations that I've made about our good friend, Cappy Z.    He hails from "Atlantis"......as an Artful Master of Deflection, a title not easily achieved because most there never rise above journeyman of Defensive Sarcasm.  He has no rivals in his unmatched ability to beg all questions in camoflauging humor.  All we can do is bow before the statue of the Great Red Fish which honors his wisdom.  I intend no disrespect; I'm just trying to stay on the narrow "tracks" in discussion before us and defer to the senior member of this forum. 

 

(oh yeah; ghost surf, it's not raining on your parade if someone explains the accurate identification of your rock.  With that "new" knowledge you are better armed on future trips in the field.  It's been my experience that knowing accurate information is far more useful than entertaining wishful fantasies contrived from the combination of "exclusive" facts.  In other words, hey man, based on the info you've provided, I think you found a rock with some interesting fractures, but not a fossil track.  Yet, I'll bet there's a good chance you could find some real fossils in your area on future trips. ....just my uncredentialed opinion)

Tylocidaris.....Merry Christmas Happy Hanukkah and Fabulous Festivus!

Do you have an eye for Moose Tracks? They can be found in the frozen food section of better grocery stores. 

[THIS]

I have glasses!
Since you are so sure of your ID, if I may ask, what are your credentials? Granted, mine are in invertebrate paleontology; I was educated as a geologist...(Solius Suspiciousus)

ahh!! One of those 'credential' rank and file deliberaters! I believe the argument should be limited to the fossil...

Right! So you start of with an ad hominem.

I read the brilliant book 'Lucy' about the discovery of Australopithecus Afarenes..many 'doubters' in the rank and file of academia..I mean the author Richard Leakey had such ...minimal educational credentials..not even a college degree?

... and you didn't even get that right. "Lucy" was written by Donald Johanson and Tim White. Though, your are right that Richard Leakey lacks formal education, but he was taught under the tutelage of two of the greatest anthropologists to put pen to paper; his parents.

Ooh, a little clue for you. I knew Dr. Johanson when he was at Cleveland.

And yet in other theaters many a distinguished highly 'degreed' individuals turned out be total fakes. The young Bell Laboratory genius who so successfully fooled the elite until finally getting caught by the earnest digging of an unknown researcher, comes to mind.

Your claim of "many" is unsupported. It is one of the tactics employed by anti-intellectuals in an attempt to validate a bogus claim... but I'll play along. BTW, THIS is a good book that illustrates why tactics such as this have become so prevalent in this society.

In Logic, that is what is know as a non sequitur if you will. It has no bearing on the validity, or not, of whether the original poster has a track. It appears to be a combination of, at least, a couple of different fallacies. I'll leave it to you determine which fallacies you presented.

So my good friend Solius Suspiciousus, in all fairness to you with your limited eye site, let the process continue with others more qualified before making such a 'rush to judgement'.
 

Rather than address the issues that I provided in my first post, you chose to reply with a bunch of illogical non-sense. Trying to cloud the issue, huh?

This guy needs glasses. It's a perfect match to the museum photo. It's definitely a trackway!

I stand by my comment.

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' "
    --- Isaac Asimov, column in Newsweek (21 January 1980)

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' "
    --- Isaac Asimov, column in Newsweek (21 January 1980)

   What Isaac and Harry said.

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' "
    --- Isaac Asimov, column in Newsweek (21 January 1980)

   What Isaac and Harry said.

Not that I don't enjoy a good read, but Isaac wrote 'fiction' primarily..science fiction. I suspect he could have been talking about the Republican party by his comment...Was it not Colon Powell who sat before the United Nations claiming irrefutable proof for WMD's? So much expertise....

[as an Artful Master of Deflection, a title not easily achieved because most there never rise above journeyman of Defensive Sarcasm. He has no rivals in his unmatched ability to beg all questions in camoflauging humor. All we can do is bow before the statue of the Great Red Fish which honors his wisdom.]

So, my good friend, Solius, please bear in mind these observations that I've made about our good friend, Cappy Z.    He hails from "Atlantis"......as an Artful Master of Deflection, a title not easily achieved because most there never rise above journeyman of Defensive Sarcasm.  He has no rivals in his unmatched ability to beg all questions in camoflauging humor.  All we can do is bow before the statue of the Great Red Fish which honors his wisdom.  I intend no disrespect; I'm just trying to stay on the narrow "tracks" in discussion before us and defer to the senior member of this forum. 

 

.....

I stand by my comment too.... ....and, I detect more sign that a blind hunter could follow.

Not that I don't enjoy a good read, but Isaac wrote 'fiction' primarily..science fiction. I suspect he could have been talking about the Republican party by his comment...Was it not Colon Powell who sat before the United Nations claiming irrefutable proof for WMD's? So much expertise....

"Asimov, who died in New York [April 6, 1992] at 72, ultimately became this century's most recognized one-man encyclopedist -- with 477 published titles by his own count.

Long before the advent of the Information Age, Asimov was a singular information processor. "Isaac Asimov is the greatest explainer of the age," said Carl Sagan, the Cornell University astronomer.

Such a feat was accomplished by an extraordinary combination of imagination and intellect: an imagination that allowed him to soar into the future matched with an intellect that allowed him to roam in the past and present, searching for explanations of anything and everything."

Harry, we can always use more well understood "explainers" in our world.  Those that "cloud" an issue are just in the way of learning.  


Ghost Surf, having gone back and read many of your posts, I think Asimov is welcome on your thread.  However, just to clear up any previous confusion, are you referring to the area I've circled in blue?  If so, I still think you are dealing with the random, eroded fracturing of the bedrock along the stream.  To give you further understanding, try to get an ID of the bedrock geologic formation.  Knowing the rock can tell you what is probable to find.  (For instance, you won't find many marine fossils in volcanic rock.   )

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' "
    --- Isaac Asimov, column in Newsweek (21 January 1980)

 May I use  this Harry?

I agree Tn.  That's the best quote I've heard all year.  Greater "numbers" in ignorance does not mean that ignorance gets elevated to knowledge.

Use it when it seems appropriate, TnM.  I, myself, don't use the Asimov quote much in conversation 'cause it seems to have the effect of a baseball bat to the intellectual knees.   

Asimov was a huge intellect, with a prodigious IQ and an ego to match -- he did not suffer fools gladly.  The rest of us usually have to be more long-suffering with foolishness.    

I know nothing about fossils or rocks but I have read Asimov much to my enjoyment.  Just my two cents but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express !!!

Let's just stop tooting our own horns and creds and help the guy out with a simple ID or guess.  We all know something about something.

"ghost surf"

Check your Private Messages

I must need (new) glasses too because it just looks like normal random erosion/breakage of rock to me.

The rock in the photo was found about a 20+ feet into a river bed that went almost all empty of water.
Near the shore area...the river is now back full of water again. More of the same rock (about a 10 by 5 foot slab) with smaller parts broken off around it...was found right on the shore and since has been surrounded by water. I was not able to check that rock..I do not want to get in trouble either!If I found something, the rock formations would be notified to the officers in care of the area as requested!
It is a very old area that is a well known camping area in our state. The rock was given to the office where you ask for a camping spot, so I don't know what they did with the rock. The officer and another  person who worked up at the office said they could see a print also. To bad now, I have no idea what they did with the rock.
I have another interesting photo I took of another spot where looking off a bridge with binocs on to the broken wall of the river, I swear I can see zig zagging and straight lined foot prints leading along the wall for about 400 feet, It is now being grown over by brush. The wall has broken off under the questioned Prints.  
You would have to hang there off the side to see them also and because the rock wall is falling in from the river. May be an old ancient trail and it's in the rock! If this was... it would be a huge finding for our state.... This area is in a completely different county! As far as this rock goes I was not sure if these where foot prints that is why I asked here!It is good to know we have a place to get an answer!

I am not an Geologist or an Archeologist, I wish I was though!!
People just don't look deep into rocks, I however go over them with a fine tooth comb!

Here is the photo of the ledge. It's just a possiblity.I marked a black line where I see the odd forms in the rock. I also see it on other parts of the rocks in twined on the surfaces, so it could just very well be made by mother nature / from the wind or rain ect.
Do you notice that face like shape rock form protuding from the ledge above with the foot print looking forms on both sides? MAYBE it's a hidden entrance for lost or found gold and stuff from the indians?
I would be careful though for rattle snake could be in there too!
Look at that The head shape is there with the foot print forms on both sides.There is brush growing in the hollowed out part!! GOSH I have been watching to much Indiana Jones movies!It's Mine!! ALL MINE!I found it! If you don't go after it, you won't find it! By the way the same carved head forms are found on one of our states bluffs..maybe this came from the same tribe?The problem these days is everyone is taught to think the same and when someone thinks outside that box your a sin!Well I guess thats me! Oh well!

.......Concerning the ?ed rock!
That rock was under water for a long time...The officer siad it was many( Quote:MANY) years since that river was emptied..I ask that question just for that porpose...So how may I ask, something of that nature would be on there? It is a marking of some sort and it don't look fake to me!

AAhhh yes, the old "fake dinosaur track in the river scheme".  One thing about Cappy , he is always entertaining.  I got some yuks out of this one.  Honestly I don't see any tracks on that rock either.  It's a lot like those spanish conquistador's treasure signs someone is always posting.  They mostly just look like rocks to me. My degree is in psychology, so parhaps one of us is nuts.  Probably me.  M  nty 

OH WOW! You can tell me how the world actually started and where we people actually came from and maybe that there is no other life out there?....HMM!That's one of my favorite back at yous!
Ok back to reality now folks!
Maybe your one of the dudes who have been tailing me latley ey?



................................................. .........
As of the red and blue circled Possible (?ed) photo of a few posts ago.. Thanks for the information!
I was talking of the circled print in blue on the photo above...That is what I was prefferring to as a possible print on the rock.

ghost surf and Cappy Z:
    Wasn't it a credentialed, educated, paleontologist expert in  invertebrates that developed the Nebraska Man from one molar tooth............................................ ....that was later proved to be the tooth from a wild PIG??  
     Yep, educated individuals are the hardest folks to "teach".  The fakers have usually been the "educated" folks who couldn't find the missing link they swear exists, so they attempted to manufacture their own.  That Nebraska Man was one;  the Peking Man was another.  The PM's skull was pieced and glued together from human and ape skull pieces.  Kinda makes one wonder just HOW those educated folks actually GOT their degrees.  Wonder if THEY are fake, too.     Perhaps their diplomas were cut and spiced together from other sources.  Hmmmmm. 

Science is self-correcting; ignorance is persistent.

You made that up Harry. M nty