Mysterious Tin Coin - part of Templar legacy?

Please go to my website to view this amazing coin.  If you can offer any assistance in identifying its origins, I would be most grateful.

www.mysterycoin.com

I don't think it was a coin, but I do think it was glued to something.  The roughed up back might have been to help hold an adhesive.

Memory of the 1900 Mission = Andenken an die heilige Mission 1900 (German)

To The Holy -or- The Saint = an die heilige

IHS = Jesus (Latin)

Well, I just read your other site... I guess the translations were already done. 

Also contains the Jesuit Seal...




I think it's a token or seal or ? ... not a coin.

I agree; not a coin, but a token or medallion

It might also be made of pewter, not 100% tin; pewter being a common metal for medallions, tokens and replica coins

This coin has been analyzed at a metallurgy lab at the University of Toronto. It is 98% tin.  Pewter was not mentioned by the metallurgist.

It is also not glued to anything.  It stands alone.  Not sure whether it's a coin or a medallion.

Still quite a mystery.

I don't think it was a coin, but I do think it was glued to something.  The roughed up back might have been to help hold an adhesive.

Exactly

Well... I hope this piece holds the drama in it's history that you hope it does.

Well... I hope this piece holds the drama in it's history that you hope it does.

I found a clue!  But it costs 9.9 Euros on ebay...  Too rich for me... 



DCMatt

Vastik, if I understood the statement of your expert correctly, he believes this object dates from the 14 or 1500's? I'm by no means any kind of expert on fonts or very early engraving techniques, but to substantiate his opinion, is any one aware of another "coin" (die produced object) dating from the 15th century that would use these perfect fonts, or the larger interior stylazied fonts?   

Pewter is a malleable metal alloy, traditionally between 85 and 99 percent tin, with the remainder consisting of copper, antimony, bismuth and lead.
The 'o' after MISSION may be the mint mark or the initial of the engraver.

  Why does this expert think this coin is 14th or 15th cent.?    It sure has a lot of fine detail, but I am no coin expert.

Nice Coin/Token this looks as though it was made through a milled process, which would explain the clear detail, milled coins first appeared in the UK during the reign of Elizabeth1(1561-70)

The reverse looks as if it might have been deliberetly defaced in some way, which sometimes accurs on early English coins. Nice find and interesting thread

SS

Clearly not a coin & is likely a token/medallion for use by the Mason's or celebrating an event.

Info only:

Also Britain produced Tin coins in the reins of Charles II (1684-85), James II (1684-87), William & Mary (1689-92).  But none during 14-1500s.

Nice Coin/Token this looks as though it was made through a milled process, which would explain the clear detail, milled coins first appeared in the UK during the reign of Elizabeth1(1561-70)

The reverse looks as if it might have been deliberetly defaced in some way, which sometimes accurs on early English coins. Nice find and interesting thread

SS

I agree, looks like it's milled. You can see the "S" on the other side, even if just slightly.

Agreed  Crusader, and I would add that the back was not defaced. The back shows clearly the reversed image of the front, so there's no reason to deface it. . The explaination for the criss-crossed lines was given by Mountain Jim; this relic was cemented within or onto another object (guess would be a decorative border for a sash mount)

The explaination for the criss-crossed lines was given by Mountain Jim; this relic was cemented within or onto another object (guess would be a decorative border for a sash mount)

Agreed, most likely to hold it to ?

  vastic....are there any signs of a form of adhesive on the Coin/Token

SS

Vastic, you wrote:
"In 2006 a Canadian collectibles dealer bought a substantial number of coins and tokens from a collector as one 'lot'."

Question: Was the Canadian collectible dealer also a coin dealer?

You wrote:
"He showed it to an architect friend who had been privileged to visit the Vatican's archives. The architect suggested that the coin might be historically valuable..."

Question: Is the architect also a coin collector or dealer?

You wrote:
"The dealer then showed the coin to various experts in order to decypher the symbols on its face..."

Question: Were any of these experts asked to ID this object as a coin or token--in addition to being asked to decipher the symbols?

Personally (and I'm not a coin dealer), I believe it is a relatively modern religious  pewter token. That said, I hope it turns out to be a valuable coin.

Don..

"vastic....are there any signs of a form of adhesive on the Coin/Token"

S.S., if you look very closely I think you can see it yourself. It is a grey material adhering to parts of the back. There is also discoloration existing on the back, but not the front which may be remains of this cement or adhesive. (We don't even know if the dealer who was describing this relic as a "token" might have cleaned the back to remove "unsightly" cement, and missed a few spots)

"vastic....are there any signs of a form of adhesive on the Coin/Token"

S.S., if you look very closely I think you can see it yourself. It is a grey material adhering to parts of the back. There is also discoloration existing on the back, but not the front which may be remains of this cement or adhesive. (We don't even know if the dealer who was describing this relic as a "token" might have cleaned the back to remove "unsightly" cement, and missed a few spots)

Sorry no...I never judge anything from a picture I would rather the poster give me the imformation, which I would trust, be to his best knowledge

SS

definetily not a coin, more than likely a medallion
and from the condition of it, not very old.

definetily not a coin, more than likely a medallion
and from the condition of it, not very old.

   seems to be a growing theme here

definetily not a coin, more than likely a medallion
and from the condition of it, not very old.

   seems to be a growing theme here

                                 Everybody knows something.
                                     Nobody knows much.
                                   We're all in this together..................PBK 2009

SS

S.S.  "a picture speaks a thousand words"   Emperor Xia dynesty 2000 b.c. 

S.S.  "a picture speaks a thousand words"   Emperor Xia dynesty 2000 b.c. 

I don't use dots between the SS.

SS...not S.S.

S.S.  "a picture speaks a thousand words"   Emperor Xia dynesty 2000 b.c. 

I don't use dots between the SS.

SS...not S.S.

morse code also speaks a thousand words

S.S.  "a picture speaks a thousand words"   Emperor Xia dynesty 2000 b.c. 

I don't use dots between the SS.

SS...not S.S.

morse code also speaks a thousand words

Not to me

When you look at the back of this thing you can see evidence that it was pried out of its base rather than fell out. If you look at the top of the back you see the small pry mark. Directly under the pry mark are a few small shiny lines of the tool someone used when lifting it out. There is no cement residue in these lines, but there's residue in the base of all the other older scribed lines, with some "hunks" of it still adhering to the three bottom left lines, a little in the top two lines, and possibly more along the left edge which someone couldn't remove. There is no rim on the back either, only a thin lip. There's no way this can be a coin, token, or medal.

When you look at the back of this thing you can see evidence that it was pried out of its base rather than fell out. If you look at the top of the back you see the small pry mark. Directly under the pry mark are a few small shiny lines of the tool someone used when lifting it out. There is no cement residue in these lines, but there's residue in the base of all the other older scribed lines, with some "hunks" of it still adhering to the three bottom buttom left lines, a little in the top two lines, and possibly more along the left edge which someone couldn't remove. There is no rim on the back either, only a thin lip. There's no way this can be a coin, token, or medal.

ss., not quite the "picture that speaks a thousand words" I was thinking of, but good research anyway! 

Did anyone else watch the associated video posted at the original posted site about the coin?


Anyway... I'm not thinking this is anything as spectacular as the video suggests. 

well if nothing else tin's up....

I've been looking this piece over and there is definitely no glue residue on it. The dark, seemingly 3D marks you are seeing are part of the patina.  I recently came across another tin coin from Europe, and it had the same dark patina.  Also, as I was studying the lines in the back just last evening, I noticed that they were not made at random.  If I look at the coin sideways, the lines look like the neck of a guitar.  There is a specific pattern to it.  Could the lines on the back hold a clue to the symbols on the front? 
I am still baffled by the origins of this coin/medal.  If it was a replica of something, would there not be other similar ones out there?  I don't know what to make of it really.  There is no evidence of the coin/medal ever having been attached to anything.
I still want to keep searching and trying to find an answer.  So please, if you find anything related to this anywhere else, let me know, or post it on this thread.

Thanks everyone for your opinions and interest in this topic.

 

vastic

do you have a weight for this coin/token and I'm not supprised to find out there was no adhesive on the back I never thought there was

SS

Hi SS,

It is approximately 8 grams.
I have just got hold of the metallurgy reports and I am going to try and post them on the Facebook group "Mystery Coin."
Perhaps I will have time to do this by tomorrow.
If you are a Facebook member, you can join the group to get the info.

Thanks for your interest in this strange item.

Hi SS,

It is approximately 8 grams.
I have just got hold of the metallurgy reports and I am going to try and post them on the Facebook group "Mystery Coin."
Perhaps I will have time to do this by tomorrow.
If you are a Facebook member, you can join the group to get the info.

Thanks for your interest in this strange item.

why not post them here, this is starting to sound a bit odd,  unless your token went on a good night out

Hi Crusader,

I didn't know that I could post them here.  These are Microsoft Word documents.  I thought all I could post was photos on here.
Do you  know how I go about posting these documents on here? 

Hi SS,

It is approximately 8 grams.
I have just got hold of the metallurgy reports and I am going to try and post them on the Facebook group "Mystery Coin."
Perhaps I will have time to do this by tomorrow.
If you are a Facebook member, you can join the group to get the info.

Thanks for your interest in this strange item.

8 grams sound heavy for tin

SS

Hi Crusader,

I didn't know that I could post them here.  These are Microsoft Word documents.  I thought all I could post was photos on here.
Do you  know how I go about posting these documents on here?  

I'm sure someone more computer literate than me will tell you how to convert them.  All I can think of is either scanning them & saving as jpg or take a picture of them

PS.  I thought you were starting some cult following on facebook

Hi Crusader,

I didn't know that I could post them here.  These are Microsoft Word documents.  I thought all I could post was photos on here.
Do you  know how I go about posting these documents on here? 

some computers you can go to start, all programs, accessories, then to snipping tool. if that doesn't work try right clicking the text, copying, and then paste it on your post

Thanks Traderoftreasures.  The word documents also include embedded photos and graphs, but I will try what you said and see if it works.  I know there has to be a way.

Crusader....LOL!!! I think it would be hilarious to have this turn into a cult following 
I didn't think about it like that before, but it could be fun.

Anyway, I'm just curious as to what it is and are there any more out there like it.
It still has me stummped 

"and I'm not supprised to find out there was no adhesive on the back  I never thought there was"


Silver searcher, if you believe the gray mounds clinging to the inside of the botton two scored lines are "patina" then I've got a really nice bridge to sell you"

"and I'm not supprised to find out there was no adhesive on the back  I never thought there was"


Silver searcher, if you believe the gray mounds clinging to the inside of the botton two scored lines are "patina" then I've got a really nice bridge to sell you"

Johnnyi... are you doubting the poster

I have a new aviater for you

SS

"and I'm not supprised to find out there was no adhesive on the back  I never thought there was"


Silver searcher, if you believe the gray mounds clinging to the inside of the botton two scored lines are "patina" then I've got a really nice bridge to sell you"

Johnnyi... are you doubting the poster

I have a new aviater for you

SS

johnnyi,

How are you so sure?  You have not seen the coin except in a picture. I have seen it in person, and I am telling you, there is no glue residue anywhere!
Don't be so quick to judge something you don't know anything about.  If you can offer some real information about it, that would be great.  Otherwise, keep your insulting comments to yourself!  

Okay vaslik, if it isn't cement residue (I never said "glue") then how about blowing up that part in a scan. 'Patina" does not fill scored lines, and "patina" does not mound up.

By the way, I read your other write up; the one about 'mayube Nazis", "maybe Oak Island", etc. etc., and I enjoyed it very much. It took a great deal of time obviously to produce. Now the amount of energy it would take to blow up the areas I emetnuioned would be miniscule compared to that, and would perhaps even help to identify this curious object (which is neither a coin or a token) Thank you. 

I do not have a domain SWR.  I tried to upload them here, but it tells me there is an error and that I cannot load that type of file.
I will upload them to facebook tomorrow and I'll post the link here then.

Johnnyi,

There is nothing in the score lines.  The metallurgy reports have magnified shots.  I will try to upload and post the link tomorrow.
Another thing, you can download the photo on your hard drive and blow it up to have a closer look.  I just want people to be open minded about this and not jump to conclusions and be presumptuous.   We are all curious about this piece.  If you think I'm pulling some kind of stunt, then go away and don't bother with this post. 
I am here because I am curious.  I am not interested in playing games, nor do I have the time in my life for doing such things.  As for "my" other posts and descriptions, if you are talking about the website, that is not put up by me, it was put up by the actual owner of the coin.

Can you post a pic of a side view please, showing the thickness or lack of.  Put something in the pic for size reference please.

Sorry SWR, I guess that was a bad choice of words on my part.  I do not actually control the content on that website.  I do however, control the content of the facebook group "Mystery Coin" so I will post the reports on there.  I will also suggest it to the site owner to try and upload the reports to mysterycoin.com

Also, I have suggested to the owner to take a side view of the coin. He said he will try his best and then I can post them here.

By the way, does anyone think that it may be related to the Illuminati?  I know that the all-seeing eye was used by them, but it was also used by the Rosicrucians.  Confusing....

Johnnyi,

There is nothing in the score lines.  The metallurgy reports have magnified shots.  I will try to upload and post the link tomorrow.
Another thing, you can download the photo on your hard drive and blow it up to have a closer look.  I just want people to be open minded about this and not jump to conclusions and be presumptuous.   We are all curious about this piece.  If you think I'm pulling some kind of stunt, then go away and don't bother with this post.  
I am here because I am curious.  I am not interested in playing games, nor do I have the time in my life for doing such things.  As for "my" other posts and descriptions, if you are talking about the website, that is not put up by me, it was put up by the actual owner of the coin.

I think I mentioned something like this in the acient coin thread...about not to judge things from pictures it just gets you into trouble vastik is the item defenetly Tin

SS

SilverSearcher,

Yes, to the best of my knowledge.  I have asked the owner if it may perhaps be pewter, and he said no.  He said the metallurgist at the University of Toronto told him it was definitely tin.  Neither one of us is an expert on metals, so I guess we can only rely on the reports.  I do not know how to read the symbols on the reports and so when I post them on Facebook I really hope someone can read them and explain them to the group.
Thank you for your open-minded, educated questions and opinions.

SilverSearcher,

Yes, to the best of my knowledge.  I have asked the owner if it may perhaps be pewter, and he said no.  He said the metallurgist at the University of Toronto told him it was definitely tin.  Neither one of us is an expert on metals, so I guess we can only rely on the reports.  I do not know how to read the symbols on the reports and so when I post them on Facebook I really hope someone can read them and explain them to the group.
Thank you for your open-minded, educated questions and opinions.

It might take time to ID...but we will get there in the end

There are a lot of helpfull people on here(Johnnyi included) that will strive to find out what your coin/token will be please keep us posted with updates

SS

Thank you SS, and everyone else....yes, even Johnnyi skeptic ...LOL!!!
This is quite the mystery to solve since we have not yet located anything else like it anywhere.  Keep looking folks....there is bound to be an answer out there somewhere!  The owner is sending out press releases about it this week to some coin-related magazines.  A friend of his who is a television news writer thinks the coin/token/medal may have some interesting significance.

Mysteries rock 

Perhaps that's a good idea SWR.  I will suggest it to him. Thanks for coming up with that idea!

SilverSearcher,

Yes, to the best of my knowledge.  I have asked the owner if it may perhaps be pewter, and he said no.  He said the metallurgist at the University of Toronto told him it was definitely tin.  Neither one of us is an expert on metals, so I guess we can only rely on the reports.  I do not know how to read the symbols on the reports and so when I post them on Facebook I really hope someone can read them and explain them to the group.
Thank you for your open-minded, educated questions and opinions.

Like Mack said, Pewter can be 99% Tin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pewter
It looks machine stamped but I need to see the side view.

SilverSearcher,

Yes, to the best of my knowledge.  I have asked the owner if it may perhaps be pewter, and he said no.  He said the metallurgist at the University of Toronto told him it was definitely tin.  Neither one of us is an expert on metals, so I guess we can only rely on the reports.  I do not know how to read the symbols on the reports and so when I post them on Facebook I really hope someone can read them and explain them to the group.
Thank you for your open-minded, educated questions and opinions.

Like Mack said, Pewter can be 99% Tin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pewter
It looks machine stamped but I need to see the side view.

Yes, I will try to obtain some side-view photos. I have seen the side of it and it's thin, no inscriptions. 

Yes, I will try to obtain some side-view photos. I have seen the side of it and it's thin, no inscriptions.  

I thought it appeared thin but didnt want to say yet but since you mentioned it. Like someone said, the image is showing on the back side.

Is this of any help?    http://cgi.ebay.de/Andenken-Heilige...20090920?IMSfp=TL090920166002r27394

In English http://translate.google.com/transla...archBox%26rlz%3D1I7GGLR_en%26sa%3DG

Memory of the 1900 Mission = Andenken an die heilige Mission 1900 (German)

To The Holy -or- The Saint = an die heilige

IHS = Jesus (Latin)

Well, I just read your other site... I guess the translations were already done. 

Also contains the Jesuit Seal...




I think it's a token or seal or ? ... not a coin.

Jim where does it say 1900?

Johnnyi,
There is nothing in the score lines.  The metallurgy reports have magnified shots.  I will try to upload and post the link tomorrow.
Another thing, you can download the photo on your hard drive and blow it up to have a closer look.  I just want people to be open minded about this and not jump to conclusions and be presumptuous.   We are all curious about this piece.  If you think I'm pulling some kind of stunt, then go away and don't bother with this post. 
I am here because I am curious.  I am not interested in playing games, nor do I have the time in my life for doing such things.  As for "my" other posts and descriptions, if you are talking about the website, that is not put up by me, it was put up by the actual owner of the coin.

First of all, never in any of my posts did I say or imply you were "pulling a stunt". It is curious that you would think otherwise. My comment about 'buying a bridge" was a friendly repartee SS and I occasionally indulge in with each other when he "rolls his eyes" to comments which make perfect sense.

You ask me to be "open minded". Vastik, yet "open minded" means considering observations on exactly what is there before  us, and seeing where that information may lead. "Open minded" is not promoting a dramatic conclusion and then picking and choosing what facts fit that hypothesis. Incidentally, "open minded is not telling a poster to "go away" either when their observations do not match yours. To the contrary, it open mindedness is embracing those observations and proving them to be false if at all possible.

You have already been provided  some observations by several posters experiences with coins and tokens, including myself, which you may not want to hear, but which I'm afraid, tend to bash the notion this object made it's way here 'via Oak Island', via "the Nazis", via the "Jesuits" , etc., and which instead strongly suggest this is a fairly modern item of the 19th or 20th century.

First of all, by even the loosest definition, this is not a "coin" or "token". It is one-sided with only one rim, and with a reverse scored clearly to adhere it within another object. Such scoring is a common practice to allow cement to adhere. Another observation you've been provided concerns your "metallurgists report suggesting it is "tin".  A poster already pointed out that  pewter is primarily tin based.

There have been other observations provided to you also which you might want to pursue, one of those being to study the fonts, particularly the interior fonts, and attempt to date these. The fact they are consistent with 19th century style would be yet another factor weighing heavily against  the possibility of your object being older than the common fraternal order devices so very common in the 19th century.

Johnnyi,
There is nothing in the score lines.  The metallurgy reports have magnified shots.  I will try to upload and post the link tomorrow.
Another thing, you can download the photo on your hard drive and blow it up to have a closer look.  I just want people to be open minded about this and not jump to conclusions and be presumptuous.   We are all curious about this piece.  If you think I'm pulling some kind of stunt, then go away and don't bother with this post. 
I am here because I am curious.  I am not interested in playing games, nor do I have the time in my life for doing such things.  As for "my" other posts and descriptions, if you are talking about the website, that is not put up by me, it was put up by the actual owner of the coin.

First of all, never in any of my posts did I say or imply you were "pulling a stunt". It is curious that you would think otherwise. My comment about 'buying a bridge" was a friendly repartee SS and I occasionally indulge in with each other when he "rolls his eyes" to comments which make perfect sense.

You ask me to be "open minded". Vastik, yet "open minded" means considering observations on exactly what is there before  us, and seeing where that information may lead. "Open minded" is not promoting a dramatic conclusion and then picking and choosing what facts fit that hypothesis. Incidentally, "open minded is not telling a poster to "go away" either when their observations do not match yours. To the contrary, it open mindedness is embracing those observations and proving them to be false if at all possible.

You have already been provided  some observations by several posters experiences with coins and tokens, including myself, which you may not want to hear, but which I'm afraid, tend to bash the notion this object made it's way here 'via Oak Island', via "the Nazis", via the "Jesuits" , etc., and which instead strongly suggest this is a fairly modern item of the 19th or 20th century.

First of all, by even the loosest definition, this is not a "coin" or "token". It is one-sided with only one rim, and with a reverse scored clearly to adhere it within another object. Such scoring is a common practice to allow cement to adhere. Another observation you've been provided concerns your "metallurgists report suggesting it is "tin".  A poster already pointed out that  pewter is primarily tin based.

There have been other observations provided to you also which you might want to pursue, one of those being to study the fonts, particularly the interior fonts, and attempt to date these. The fact they are consistent with 19th century style would be yet another factor weighing heavily against  the possibility of your object being older than the common fraternal order devices so very common in the 19th century.

Johhnyi,

Like I said, I am not familiar with metals.  I will post the metallurgy reports and people can check them out and tell me what they say.
So far, I am the only one on this thread who has seen and touched this item.  If I post something about it, it's because I have been witness to it, not because I have looked at a picture and come to a conslusion about what is on it.  Having examined it, I can say it was never adhered to anything in any way.  It stands alone.
I appreciate and value your opinions Johhnyi, as well as the opinions of others on this thread.  I really hope that we can pull together to find out what this is.  Personally I don't think it was made to exchange as a monitary value coin...so no, it is not a real "coin" per say.  
I tend to think it may be more of a token to commemorate something or to be used as identifying a member of an organization.
Where it came from?    
There must be some more of these out there somewhere.

The ebay link was interesting.

Thanks everyone!

At this point it is unsolved. The only clues we have come from the pics.  Here is a pic of scoring that is commonly done for better adhering.

Memory of the 1900 Mission = Andenken an die heilige Mission 1900 (German)

To The Holy -or- The Saint = an die heilige

IHS = Jesus (Latin)

Well, I just read your other site... I guess the translations were already done. 

Also contains the Jesuit Seal...




I think it's a token or seal or ? ... not a coin.

Jim where does it say 1900?

Um... I can't remember where I got the translations... Maybe you can disregards my post.  I'm only reading this now because it's beyond ridiculous.  Reminds me of the Hmmm posts.

I think I just googled the key words off the medallion and translated them... I've no recollection of the 1900 piece of the pie - sorry.

Hi Everyone,

I tried to upload the MS Word files to Facebook, but that didn't work either.

I will suggest to Errol that he can post them on the website as it is easy to convert Word documents to web documents.

Just cut and paste the text from Word to whereever you want to put it.

No disrespect but I think this object falls along the lines of piggman1's "found in a football field" thread. Yes, it's unique only because we can't find another example of what it is. Does that make it invaluable or an extreme rarity? Who knows until we actually know what it came off of, but I doubt it. This thing screams "attachment" to me, those are obvious score lines on the back regardless if they are clean of any type of adhesive or not. JMHO

SWR,
I am dissapointed in you.
The person you posted about, Errol Bruce Knapp, is not the owner of the coin.  I thought you would know better than to think that.

Also, what would there be to hose you about?  And if the owner is going to hose anybody, why would they pick you?  What would they have to gain from "hosing" the group of people on this forum?

The owner, as much as anybody else, has no idea what this is or where it's from. 

You guys know your coins, I don't doubt that, but I'm really looking for someone who knows about the symbology of it.  I was hoping someone on this forum would know something about the symbology.  Evidently, I am wrong.

That said, I will keep searching for the answer.

Thanks go to those on this forum who are actually curious enough to actually hunt for answers.

SWR,
I am dissapointed in you.
The person you posted about, Errol Bruce Knapp, is not the owner of the coin.  I thought you would know better than to think that.

Also, what would there be to hose you about?  And if the owner is going to hose anybody, why would they pick you?  What would they have to gain from "hosing" the group of people on this forum?

The owner, as much as anybody else, has no idea what this is or where it's from. 

You guys know your coins, I don't doubt that, but I'm really looking for someone who knows about the symbology of it.  I was hoping someone on this forum would know something about the symbology.  Evidently, I am wrong.

That said, I will keep searching for the answer.

Thanks go to those on this forum who are actually curious enough to actually hunt for answers.

You don't know me....so, I don't know where "I am dissapointed in you" and "I thought you would know better than to think that" comes from.

I am a researcher, and as such I look at all angles. Errol Bruce Knapp owns the "Mystery Coin" website, so it is only logical who owns the "coin" or who has control over it. The website, in itself, is a huge joke....as others here have noted.

Where it came from, you asked previously. Well...being its written in German...Germany would be a good guess.

SWR,

A researcher you are; a good detecive you are not.  You should know how to think outside the box.
Since you seemed to know so much about Errol, you should know that he is not the owner.
And by the way.....how do you know that I don't know you?  Again, you are not thinking outside the box. 

SWR,
I am dissapointed in you.
The person you posted about, Errol Bruce Knapp, is not the owner of the coin.  I thought you would know better than to think that.

Also, what would there be to hose you about?  And if the owner is going to hose anybody, why would they pick you?  What would they have to gain from "hosing" the group of people on this forum?

The owner, as much as anybody else, has no idea what this is or where it's from. 

You guys know your coins, I don't doubt that, but I'm really looking for someone who knows about the symbology of it.  I was hoping someone on this forum would know something about the symbology.  Evidently, I am wrong.

That said, I will keep searching for the answer.

Thanks go to those on this forum who are actually curious enough to actually hunt for answers.

You don't know me....so, I don't know where "I am dissapointed in you" and "I thought you would know better than to think that" comes from.

I am a researcher, and as such I look at all angles. Errol Bruce Knapp owns the "Mystery Coin" website, so it is only logical who owns the "coin" or who has control over it. The website, in itself, is a huge joke....as others here have noted.

Where it came from, you asked previously. Well...being its written in German...Germany would be a good guess.

SWR,

A researcher you are; a good detecive you are not.  You should know how to think outside the box.
Since you seemed to know so much about Errol, you should know that he is not the owner.
And by the way.....how do you know that I don't know you?  Again, you are not thinking outside the box. 

Scary

 :laughing7:LOL!!! Why would that be scary Shaun7? 

:laughing7:LOL!!! Why would that be scary Shaun7? 

I know your name

:laughing7:LOL!!! Why would that be scary Shaun7? 

I know your name

Uh boy.....

:laughing7:LOL!!! Why would that be scary Shaun7? 

Oh.....various reasons

:laughing7:LOL!!! Why would that be scary Shaun7? 

Oh.....various reasons

uh....okay father paranoia   

vastik, in the interest of unbiased research and "thinking outside the box", why do you insist that your "friend's" object was never attached to anything? What factual basis do you have for making that claim?

Ladies:
Can we please get back on topic?
Thank you.

vastik, in the interest of unbiased research and "thinking outside the box", why do you insist that your "friend's" object was never attached to anything? What factual basis do you have for making that claim?

Johnnyi,

I examined the coin.  There are no traces of an adhesive.  If it was ever adhered to anything, it must have been cleaned really well.  It may have been intended to be adhered, but the lack of residue makes me think it has never been.  Also, if there were traces of adhesive, the report from the metallurgy lab would state it, but it doesn't.  I am thinking it is more of an "identification" piece....something that would be given to someone to identify them as part of a certain order.  The symbology is that of the early Rosicrucian order......we think, but can't be sure.  I was hoping this forum would help me to clarify that.

Ladies:
Can we please get back on topic?
Thank you.

Thank you!!!!

"I examined the coin.  There are no traces of an adhesive.  If it was ever adhered to anything, it must have been cleaned really well.  It may have been intended to be adhered, but the lack of residue makes me think it has never been.  Also, if there were traces of adhesive, the report from the metallurgy lab would state it, but it doesn't."

Vastik, thank  you for clarifying that it was your observation which concluded it was never attached to something. Thanks also for explaining  that because your acquaintance at the University who was given the task of identifying the metal did not mention what traces of cement might be adhering to the metal, and that means catagorically  that there were no traces of gray cement adhering to the back.

As I mentioned before, I for one can see the cement in two of the bottom lines. I can also see obvious discoloration on the verso not consistant with the front metal; I also see the same traces of gray discoloration on the inside of the verso's rim. All of this strongly suggests, in fact considering other factors, definately says it was intentionally cleaned and what remained was in spots difficult to reach. I can also see the pry mark on the top verso, along with new bright lines beneath  the prying mark which evidently came from the instrument used to remove it from it's backing. Beyond that, I see the score lines on a blank back which would serve no other purpose than to adhere it to something, as there is no point in "defacing " a blank back. That is my observation which you can take or leave as you see fit.

Observation taken Johnnyi, but I'm more curious about the symbology at this point.  I need to find more people to take a look at this and perhaps examine it in person. 
If anyone on this forum knows someone who is educated on Rosicrucian, Jesuit, Freemason, or Illuminati symbology, please have them take a look.

Thanks for your input folks! 

Observation taken Johnnyi, but I'm more curious about the symbology at this point.  I need to find more people to take a look at this and perhaps examine it in person.  
If anyone on this forum knows someone who is educated on Rosicrucian, Jesuit, Freemason, or Illuminati symbology, please have them take a look.

Thanks for your input folks!  

I have observed many identifications here at TN. Generally what is done first, is identify the era that this object was made. Since we cannot see it in person, a side view is necessary. It appears to everyone that this is a machine stamped piece. Its so thin that you can see the outline on the backside. If you didnt tell me different, I might have thought its aluminum. I think its off a wine bottle, book or gift box. It would be senseless to try to place this in late medieval Germany. Im sorry but there is no nice way of saying it. Now as far as what it represents, maybe someone will find more than we already know.. Buckleboy is fluent is German, maybe he can help.

Did you tell us the size or did I miss it?

Heres where MJ found the 1900 mission.  Also posted by DCMatt.   http://translate.google.com/transla...archBox%26rlz%3D1I7GGLR_en%26sa%3DG

In memory of the sacred mission is the translation. What is "the sacred mission"?

http://www.free-press-release.com/n...ols-puzzles-experts-1255387651.html

An analysis of the coin/token is performed at the University of Toronto's Metallurgy Labs. It is in excellent condition and made of tin - which tends to deteriorate with handling and probably from the 14 or 1500s. ...
...The scratch lines in the patina on the reverse were made later.

[http://forum.treasurenet.com/index....c,100891.msg1957744.html#msg1957744]

At this point it is unsolved. The only clues we have come from the pics.  Here is a pic of scoring that is commonly done for better adhering.

Lamar had some good input on this item in another thread:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index....c,100891.msg1957744.html#msg1957744

This was a great read... RECOMMENDED if any of you take this find seriously.

I think you need to turn this over to a  professional....

agreed. this subject is turning lame.

Even though it doesnt live up to the extraordinary claims, it still needs an ID. I hate to see everyone give up on it because of the bold fabrications.

1970s souvenier belt buckle medalian. 

I think it has something to do with the "Lost Confederate Gold" and the KGC !!!!        And maybe it has something to do with a guy named "beale" ??

Wow....I'm thinking that if you guys have already found the press release that was posted less than 24 hours ago....you guys have absolutely no life other than going on these silly forums and trying to discredit honest folks. 

SWR,
You say that this is to "our expense" -- what expense would that be? You don't pay to be on here.  If you didn't think much of this item, you wouldn't waste your time on this post.  Obviously there is more to it than you would like to admit.

The notion that this was once on a wine bottle is absolutely ridiculous.  Why would anybody put such symbology on a wine bottle or case? 

You all seem to have failed to realize the significance of the symbology because you are too wrapped up in what it's made of, or what it was stuck to.

Shees!!!! 

"WTF"....i paid to be on here.

Although I'm sure the Britts will laugh at me, I suggest e-mailing the pictures of this "object" to DAVID ICKE. I'm sure he will tell what the symbology means. Pay no attention to the reptilians that might interfere with your progress.
Good luck!
Dave.

Although I'm sure the Britts will laugh at me, I suggest e-mailing the pictures of this "object" to DAVID ICKE. I'm sure he will tell what the symbology means. Pay no attention to the reptilians that might interfere with your progress.
Good luck!
Dave.

Would that be David Icke "sports commentator" turned "Son of God"?

This has now gotten way beyond silly.
I thought I could find some help on this forum.  Evidently, I was wrong.
Since you guys are more interested in making fun of this more than helping, I am taking my questions to others who are more serious.

 

Appear to be a one sided object. It could have been watch fob or maybe a cross 

This has now gotten way beyond silly.
I thought I could find some help on this forum.  Evidently, I was wrong.
Since you guys are more interested in making fun of this more than helping, I am taking my questions to others who are more serious.

 

I think your making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Appear to be a one sided object.   

I agree.

"Wow....I'm thinking that if you guys have already found the press release that was posted less than 24 hours ago....you guys have absolutely no life other than going on these silly forums and trying to discredit honest folks."

vastik, I doubt if such a statement is going to help your cause, particularly as it flies in the face of what you asked the posters here to do; which was use their valuable time to attempt to research your "friend's" object. The majority have been doing that, and that includes stumbling upon "press releases". Nevertheless, "discrediting", or more accurately here, kicking the tires, is all part of coming to conclusions which at least can get people looking in the right direction. By now your obvious association with someone who's tires get kicked quite often should, one would think, prepare you for the skeptics who in fact can never be a threat to you unless they are proven right.

Hang in there vastik. Gird up your loins brother! Columbus endured far more than you are enduring here and look, now we've got Columbus day!

 

This has now gotten way beyond silly.
I thought I could find some help on this forum.  Evidently, I was wrong.
Since you guys are more interested in making fun of this more than helping, I am taking my questions to others who are more serious.

 

Maybe, a laugh is all this has become, you seem to have missed the expertise given.  You came for answers & you got the wrong one.  Sorry thats life.

I feel another $1000 bet coming on....

PS.  Yes the symbolism would be interesting to understand but still won't make it an old find (pre-1800), a token or a coin. (well at best a unifaced medallion/medal which has been defaced on the reverse, but its a long shot).  I changed my mind and agreed with the stuck to something theory, why do you find it so hard to believe?  Scan those reports & lets get closer to the answer.