Ham radio talk: Bending rocks

So I was doing some work today that had a crystal oscillator.  The frequency was WAY off (26.025Mhz for a 26MHz crystal) .  My first thought was, "No way in heck can a crystal be pulled that far off" (that's about a thousand ppm off for a 10 ppm crystal).

But, low and behold, the crystal didn't have stabilization caps, and was in fact way off.  I put some 30 pico's down, and it was then about 3kHz lower than the spec'ed frequency. 

I am now a believer of rock bending.  I just didn't know you can pull them so far off frequency.  Wow.

Now, if we could just find a use for that, instead of using something like a PLL or DDS.   But I guess with Rock bending, the component requirements are a lot less. 

I could only wish to be so smart.....

Welcome to piezoelectrics....   

If the frequency changes from 25kHz above to 3kHz below rated frequency by only adding 30pf, you have a bad crystal.  It should vary that much no matter what you do.

If the frequency changes from 25kHz above to 3kHz below rated frequency by only adding 30pf, you have a bad crystal.  It should vary that much no matter what you do.

Yes, and I though so too.  I thought that a 10ppm crystal shouldn't bend 'that much'.  But to my surprise, we were debugging a 25KHz shift in an oscillator (actually a cell in a Texas Instruments asic).  But sure as shoot it bent to about 25KHZ above with no loading caps...  

We later tried various crystals and learned that loading caps will in fact, play a major impact on the freq.   To low in puffs will give you a high freq, but too high in puffs will give you a lower freq.

Freaky aint it?  i never would have expected that crystals were so flimsy.    You?  (I mean, were talking about crystals here, not an RC oscillator).

Edit: We tried 3 different x-tals (different manufacturers).  All of them exhibited the same freq shift.

this gas keeps rising so we have to raise the mud weight to keep it down.my lag strokes are 3500 and down strokes are 1245 so i know when and where the gas is comming from.i have 700'foot of bha 1200'of open hole we are at 13150'.we just POOH ELOG LD/DP ect.in other words i have no idea what your talking about,lol.you might understand alittle what i said. 

Hi Mike, Johnny: have you ever tried slightly regrinding the crystal or loading it with a tiny bit of solder, then working it up? also which axis of the crystal is being used?

Don Jose de La Mancha

this gas keeps rising so we have to raise the mud weight to keep it down.my lag strokes are 3500 and down strokes are 1245 so i know when and where the gas is comming from.i have 700'foot of bha 1200'of open hole we are at 13150'.we just POOH ELOG LD/DP ect.in other words i have no idea what your talking about,lol.you might understand alittle what i said. 

this gas keeps rising so we have to raise the mud weight to keep it down.my lag strokes are 3500 and down strokes are 1245 so i know when and where the gas is comming from.i have 700'foot of bha 1200'of open hole we are at 13150'.we just POOH ELOG LD/DP ect.in other words i have no idea what your talking about,lol.you might understand alittle what i said. 

This thread isn't the only place with unintelligible posts:
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,278386.msg2000972.html#msg2000972

this gas keeps rising so we have to raise the mud weight to keep it down.my lag strokes are 3500 and down strokes are 1245 so i know when and where the gas is comming from.i have 700'foot of bha 1200'of open hole we are at 13150'.we just POOH ELOG LD/DP ect.in other words i have no idea what your talking about,lol.you might understand alittle what i said. 

This thread isn't the only place with unintelligible posts:
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,278386.msg2000972.html#msg2000972

even you dont understand what i'm talking about.

this gas keeps rising so we have to raise the mud weight to keep it down.my lag strokes are 3500 and down strokes are 1245 so i know when and where the gas is comming from.i have 700'foot of bha 1200'of open hole we are at 13150'.we just POOH ELOG LD/DP ect.in other words i have no idea what your talking about,lol.you might understand alittle what i said. 

This thread isn't the only place with unintelligible posts:
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,278386.msg2000972.html#msg2000972

even you dont understand what i'm talking about.

There's a problem in the Timor sea that could benefit from your knowledge.

HI kiddies, what Mike, Johny, & Zepher are intelligently talking about is a common factor in radio and especially important in metal detectors.  Simply frequency control via crystals...

Before the metal detectors adopted it,  they would stray off freq.  in a minute or less,  even going from sunlight to shade would change it.  You had to constantly retune.  

Garrett was the first to produce crystal controlled metal  detectors with his BFO's.

What did you come up with Mike?

Don Jose de La Mancha

this gas keeps rising so we have to raise the mud weight to keep it down.my lag strokes are 3500 and down strokes are 1245 so i know when and where the gas is comming from.i have 700'foot of bha 1200'of open hole we are at 13150'.we just POOH ELOG LD/DP ect.in other words i have no idea what your talking about,lol.you might understand alittle what i said. 

This thread isn't the only place with unintelligible posts:
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,278386.msg2000972.html#msg2000972

even you dont understand what i'm talking about.

There's a problem in the Timor sea that could benefit from your knowledge.

10 blondes in a freezer called frosted flakes

Old Chinese proverb "he who doesn't uderstand a post should be careful of putting foot in mouth"!

Don Jose de La Mancha

Old Chinese proverb "he who doesn't uderstand a post should be careful of putting foot in mouth"!

Don Jose de La Mancha

old white man saying,if your aunt had balls she'd be your uncle,lol

Please, this is interesting and I am willing to learn....I do understand about light frequencies and bending...I don't have a clue as to the numbers so teach me!!

this gas keeps rising so we have to raise the mud weight to keep it down.my lag strokes are 3500 and down strokes are 1245 so i know when and where the gas is comming from.i have 700'foot of bha 1200'of open hole we are at 13150'.we just POOH ELOG LD/DP ect.in other words i have no idea what your talking about,lol.you might understand alittle what i said. 

The bad part is I know the business that you are in and the work that you do...How's business?  Need any untrained flowback techs?

Frequencies, You are so on the right road.  Vibrations.

HI Old Goat: Are you in the oil drilling business also?  What do you think of the theory of inorganic oil being constantly produced deep in the Earth's mantle?

Don Jose de La Mancha

Inorganic oil is a muslim invention to make the West think that peak oil is a fantasy.
It has not worked and so the West seeks alternative energy sources for its transport
needs.
This is proof that Obama is not a Muslim.

HI kiddies, what Mike, Johny, & Zepher are intelligently talking about is a common factor in radio and especially important in metal detectors.  Simply frequency control via crystals...

Before the metal detectors adopted it,  they would stray off freq.  in a minute or less,  even going from sunlight to shade would change it.  You had to constantly retune.  

Garrett was the first to produce crystal controlled metal  detectors with his BFO's.

What did you come up with Mike?

Don Jose de La Mancha

We'll the original crystal in the BOM spec'ed 7pF.  But we ended up around 17pF (must have been low parasitics in the ASIC).     NOW, if I can just think of a use for this.  I'm still in awe.

this gas keeps rising so we have to raise the mud weight to keep it down.my lag strokes are 3500 and down strokes are 1245 so i know when and where the gas is comming from.i have 700'foot of bha 1200'of open hole we are at 13150'.we just POOH ELOG LD/DP ect.in other words i have no idea what your talking about,lol.you might understand alittle what i said. 

The bad part is I know the business that you are in and the work that you do...How's business?  Need any untrained flowback techs?

to dang slow i had to take a pay cut to go back to work

Hi steve:  I thought that they were starting to drill again, or is it all off shore ?  Good crews supposedly were at a premium?  Luck my friend.

Maybe they will wake up and start drilling in the US again.

Don Jose de La Mancha

Given the level of people that don't know what I'm talking about... I really shouldn't go into moon bounce, and Doppler tuning for that matter. 

Given the level of people that don't know what I'm talking about... I really shouldn't go into moon bounce, and Doppler tuning for that matter. 

I noticed you havn't contributed to the moon landing discussion ; perhaps you could bring your expertise to bare in helping to break the impasse that seems to have gripped the thread.

ah holding a intelligent chat on a topic --that few folks understand or even know of is of course difficult --and what folks no not know of they tend to mock --for fear of being called "unintelligent"
we all have subjects that we are "uninformed" about -- that doesn't make us dumb or stupid --far from it --often a "expert" is a person who knows more and more about less and less subject matter . -- he knows his "selected" subject deeply at a cost of overall general knowledge in some cases.

[Moon bounce]

ah holding a intelligent chat on a topic --that few folks understand or even know of is of course difficult --and what folks no not know of they tend tomock --for fear of being called "unintelligent"
we all have subjects that we are "uninformed" about -- that doesn't make us dumb or stupid --far from it --often a "expert" is a person who knows more and more about less and less subject matter . -- he knows his "selected" subject deeply at a cost of overall general knowledge in some cases.

I couldn't have said it better (really).  When I first started this topic, I labeled it "ham radio talk", hoping that it would be a sort of 'filter'. I was hoping that 'treasurehunting' also catered to the 'more mature' people.. and as you may know, you find a lot of HAM radio operators in a 'mature' group of people  (the older we get, the more into that sort of thing we find ourselves).   Perhaps i was hoping for that.   I don't know.  But, I still wasn't disappointing.  People are always much better on this forum than on any other forum I know of... (insinuating mature people).    ;).

On another forum, they would have already called me a pedophile, gay, satin lover.   This is why I come to TNET.  Mature people.   

Moon bounce -  An antenna that is transmitting from a transmitter, that is aimed toward the moon.  Those 'electronic waves', are then picked up by 'receivers' from people that are also aiming their [receiving] antenna toward the moon, to pick up the transmitted signal.  This is handy in case the 'line of sight' can not be seen from the horizon of the earth.  Example.  If you wanted to talk to a friend in Australia [from USA], you would bounce an RF signal off the moon, and they would receive it from picking up your signal from the moon.   BUT, the problem exists where the moon is traveling very fast, and a 'Doppler shift' occurs, and generally the receiver is tasked with 'tuning in' this shift.

Of course there's also the recourse of bouncing AM off the stratosphere if the moon isn't available... but that's another topic... (I'm digging a huge hole here aren't I).

my grandfathers ham radio "handle" in the old days was "tree tops" - he was a chief engineer on  merchant marine vessels -- it was via his ham radio "patches" that the crew got to talk with their wives back at home in the usa   ( he often called my grandmother from south america--- the was a master of the "skip") --he had a old tube set at home so you know how long ago that was. --- in his will when  hepassed it was noted that the ham radio went to the first one thaty got a license to use it --sadly I was only a child and it got "lost"in the shuffle over time.

your not a perv -- a techno geek maybe , but not a perv of any sort. --- I'm kinda a info / history geek -- folks are often amazed at the info stored in my head ( yes I was the straight "A" honors dork in history class in high school &  capt of the chess club --but I still played as right tackle / guard on the football team as well --a "thinking jock" go figger)

45 years ago when I was a C.A.P. (Civil Air Patrol) cadet, we all had ham radios and Gonset's at home and Gonset's in our auto's.  Boy those were the days. Had mine in a 1949 ford.

GG~

civil air patrol --watch out for those ruskies. -- "cap" was also a fighter pilot term -- flying "protective cover" for bombers or over a airfeild ( or any other asset) to prevent enemy bombers from hitting them.

had to have your ham radio's ready to report any russian planes you might "spot"

We ended up doing mostly search and rescue.
The Ruskies never showed.

My handle was "red fire 2-5"
GG~

I know just having fun -- but you were trained how to ID russian planes -- a lot of SAR work good training for youngsters --we need stuff like that tro keep kids minds "busy" these days -- lack of mental exersize --is making them dumb as a rock.

[Any and All]

I know just having fun -- but you were trained how to ID russian planes -- a lot of SAR work good training for youngsters --we need stuff like that tro keep kids minds "busy" these days -- lack of mental exersize --is making the dumb as a rock.

We were trained to ID Any and All aircraft (weren't so many then)
Yeah, the youth today have really missed out on a lot of things, however the Civil Air Patrol cadet program is still available to teens 12 to 18.  http://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/html/index.htm


GG~