indian stone tools and a caveman's club?????

I don't know. It just looks like all the ones I've ever seen pictured. The place for a tie is etched out at the appropriate place on the stone that has the flat area placed the direction for "pounding". The tool itself seems to have been intentionally "cut" where there were two kinds of stione ammassed together, the harder of the two intended to be the flat area for doing the pounding. And I don't know what kind of stone this part is , but it's black and HARD!! Alnost like metal. Oh and there does appear to be wear on this flat black side as if it has done some kind of hitting or hammering.  I could be nuts but I really think that's what this is!!! The rest I'm fairly sure are indian tools or weapons. I live in S.F, and plan on taking them all to the UC Berkeley archeological department soon. They have a very good program and museum there. Anyway, hope my excitement isn't way ahead of itself. Just wanted to share "the possibilities" Any knowledge about any of them I very grateful for....

Sorry man, they all look natural to me.

Sorry man, they all look natural to me.

oh nooooooooooo!

I am certainly glad that Dorkfish said it first...I was gonna say that I thought you would be sadly disappointed, they look like geofacts to me...sorry

Sorry, but just a broken rocks......Mother nature forms billions and billions of pointed, and or odd shaped rocks...... Sincerely hope you have better luck next time.



My comment below is meant in general, and not directed at you or anyone in particular....

Every pointed piece of flint, or odd shaped rock that fits in a hand is not an artifact.

Do not be bummed out. Everything you picked up looked like it should have  been something. You are doing a good job in recognising the possible shapes. Thats a great start. I have been collecting many years and can not tell you how many rocks I have brought home to only learn later they were nothing.
 Here is a good guy and thread. Contact him on his post I think he is still sending out some artifact study sets  for free or maybe the cost opf shipping. Holler at  him its a fun journey and  do not get discouraged and keep posting whatever ya find.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,271258.0.html
Happy Huntin
TnMountains

TnM is correct, training the eye to see potential artifacts is the key,  I have hunted with some people I was trying to teach and watched them walk right over a nice point, if it had been a snake it would have bit them..................I found a really nice knife in the boot print of someone who beat me to a muddy field along a creek after it rained when I was hunting in Missouri.

TnM is correct, training the eye to see potential artifacts is the key,  I have hunted with some people I was trying to teach and watched them walk right over a nice point, if it had been a snake it would have bit them..................I found a really nice knife in the boot print of someone who beat me to a muddy field along a creek after it rained when I was hunting in Missouri.

Lol I took a dude this summer and was watching in front of him a piece of flint as he approcahed I saw it was a very nice knife. I thought he would see it. I kept watching him and before I could say anything he stood right on it. I was embarassed to tell him to raise his foot for his very first artifact !!! He ended up focusing on all the old pottery jugs in the creek after that. I suggested a METAL DETECTOR TO HIM !!!!
Keep huntin ! Contact the guy above in the that link.

Like TN said, lets not get bummed out, an Indian might have picked that up to smash a skull of a bison or some type of game to get to what they needed.  The plain fact is, we don't know, ?  It is hard to seperate the facts at first, but none of us are Pros; well, some may have degrees in Geology, or Anthropology, etc..   We only have opinions.  Keep it real, and if you find anything else please post.  We all are learning here.

Oh, the one pic on the bottome draws my suspicion.  That's all I'll say

[quote  author=abarnard link=topic=281313.msg2011052#msg2011052 date=1257488678]
Oh, the one pic on the bottome draws my suspicion.  That's all I'll say
[/quote]Thank you all for making the bitter pill less difficult to swallow. I will trudge on with my head held high....... I mean .......uhhhhh ...... level and upright......I mean...... so I can still see the ground....... I just KNOW there's one out there for treasurehuntr2, Even though I'm not one to give up, your kind comments have helped to keep my confidence intact. Happy huntin'!

Like TN said, lets not get bummed out, an Indian might have picked that up to smash a skull of a bison or some type of game to get to what they needed.  The plain fact is, we don't know, ?  It is hard to seperate the facts at first, but none of us are Pros; well, some may have degrees in Geology, or Anthropology, etc..   We only have opinions.  Keep it real, and if you find anything else please post.  We all are learning here.

Sorry, no offense, but picking up a rock to smash open a single skull, or thrown at a wild turkey doesn't make the rock used or thrown an artifact. An artifact is something made or worked by man to be used for a paticular purpose. A big rock broken into little rocks and thrown at a quail is still a bunch of little rocks.

Webster....
"  man-made object taken as a whole. '

Merriam-Webster.....
" something created by humans usually for a practical purpose; especially : an object remaining from a particular period <caves containing prehistoric artifacts> b : something characteristic of or resulting from a particular human institution, period, trend, or individual."

Good luck on your next hunt.........

Yeah treasure Hunter, I got the idea.  I am just trying to cheer everyone up here. 

No offense meant,  and not trying to burst anyone's bubble or discourage anyone at all.

I have seen some who had a collection full of natural shaped pointed rocks, and was only trying to get people to look for the real thing and not waste a lot of time or get caught up in picking up every pointed or odd shaped rock and trying to reason it into an artifact, when that time could be better spent looking for artifacts.

Good luck to all..

we are all beginners at some point, and believe me, i have a rock garden full of stuff i just cant throw away. good luck

TnM is correct, training the eye to see potential artifacts is the key,  I have hunted with some people I was trying to teach and watched them walk right over a nice point, if it had been a snake it would have bit them..................I found a really nice knife in the boot print of someone who beat me to a muddy field along a creek after it rained when I was hunting in Missouri.

im sure you have walked right by a genuine artifact at one time or another.no offense meant.

we are all beginners at some point, and believe me, i have a rock garden full of stuff i just cant throw away. good luck

ohioaxeman is correct, we are all beginners at one point.keep at it and you will be haulin them in before you know it.good luck hunting

TnM is correct, training the eye to see potential artifacts is the key,  I have hunted with some people I was trying to teach and watched them walk right over a nice point, if it had been a snake it would have bit them..................I found a really nice knife in the boot print of someone who beat me to a muddy field along a creek after it rained when I was hunting in Missouri.

im sure you have walked right by a genuine artifact at one time or another.no offense meant.

None taken, and I am sure you are correct.

I learned the hard way before computers about the places I collect. Most is now on Google. Now with google, say if I was to move to your area I would start research and guarantee in not time you will hit upon a site. Its easy to do.... type in your area or county and state and the word ancient artifacts or indian artifacts. You will be surprised at what will pop up.

I often wonder who coined the word "Indian" and  what that means?
 Need any help throw out a county or area everyone here "Digs Research".)
Vios con Dios Amigo.
TnMtns

Not to be unduly un-collegial, but any rock broken from a larger rock and used for any purpose IS an artifact.  Period.

Look at pictures of Australopithicene tools some time.

Like these :

http://www.lithiccastinglab.com/cast-page/oldowanflaketoolcast.htm

http://www.lithiccastinglab.com/gallery-pages/oldowanstonetools.htm

Sorry, I'm not here to argue, there could be debate over early stone objects, which may be crude artifacts or which may be a naturally occurring phenomena that only appear to have been used by humans. It is impossible to tell if a rock was broken off another rock to be used as a tool with out there being some kind of knapping or rework done on it.

A fracture flake broken off a core piece to be used as a blade, or chopper tool by early human is an artifact, but a rock broken off another rock to be thrown one time at an object is generally not considered much more then a rock, there is no way to know or prove if it was ever used as a tool. A rock throw one time is just a rock, a rock fashioned for throwing is an artifact.

I found utterly thousands upon thousands of flakings from the knapping of points on the campsites I hunted. While a archaeologist may consider the flakings as signs of activity while excavating a site, they rarely collect all of them and most point collectors do not either.

I sold probably 60% of my finds to help finance the finer pieces in my collection.

http://www.ele.net/flake/flake.htm

Food for thought  

Trophy Hunting / Collecting is a different mentality from Archaeology. In the first, people are centering on their own ideas (size, workmanship, material, completeness &c.). In the second, the artifacts themselves are center stage.

I agree with you uniface.not to get off the subject too much,i have always tried to kind of have an archy approach when i am out hunting.if i am hunting a site,a cornfield for example,especially at a new site that i havent hunted much or at all.I pay attention to what types of flakes are on the ground and the materials being used,not just lookin for the artifact that goes in the frame.i always keep a mental note of concentration levels and where in correlation with the rest of the surrounding area,topography,water sources etc,i even go as far as keeping all this info in a log for each site i hunt,sometimes its pretty informative and fun when i go back and read my site logs.another example,i also try and pay attention to or find fire pit stones which are easy to recognize if you know what to look for,this is always a good indicator of what was going on at the site.i dont know how many hunters pay attention to this kind of stuff,it does help pass the time when i am not finding much,and it helps paint a picture of the past and what the site was being used for.apologize for the rambling.

     I pick up and bring home anything interesting. If it looks unusual or out of place and I don't know what it is I have a couple of friends that can tell me right off. I almost left this laying on the sandbar but it looked different and sure enough...it turned out to be a wooly mammoth tooth. I had never heard of or seen one before in my life. My point is pick it up and bring it home, you never know what you might leave behind.

     I pick up and bring home anything interesting. If it looks unusual or out of place and I don't know what it is I have a couple of friends that can tell me right off. I almost left this laying on the sandbar but it looked different and sure enough...it turned out to be a wooly mammoth tooth. I had never heard of or seen one before in my life. My point is pick it up and bring it home, you never know what you might leave behind.

very cool find!never know what you will find.thx for sharing the pic.

What everyone said is right

What everyone said is right

I would just like to thank everyone for their input on this thread. If possible I am going to post here a couple more pics that I hope might be of interest. Two more views of the possible"flake" and acouple of others that peak my curiosity. Thanks again to all.

 I am not sure what the material is. Any ideas? The second picture is fractured sorta like a knock off but it could have been caused by many things. Its hard to see the work of man upon that stone but it could be possible. I rarely ever find any artifacts without finding the flint flakes and such. The flakes seem to come first for me when searching.
 Next time at that site see if you see any of the smaller flakes. Are you hunting fields or water?
 Thanks for a good post though. It has brought some good discussion.
Happy Huntin
TnMtns

I am not sure what the material is. Any ideas? The second picture is fractured sorta like a knock off but it could have been caused by many things. Its hard to see the work of man upon that stone but it could be possible. I rarely ever find any artifacts without finding the flint flakes and such. The flakes seem to come first for me when searching.
 Next time at that site see if you see any of the smaller flakes. Are you hunting fields or water?
 Thanks for a good post though. It has brought some good discussion.
Happy Huntin
TnMtns

Hi and thanks again TnMtns... I'm sorry but my knowledge of rocks and minerals is thus far about as limited as my knowledge of Indian artifacts...But I'm tryin!! The area that all of these have been found is alongside water.  Some on the bank of a creek called "El Cerrito Creek" in Albany/El Cerrito CA. It runs down and thru "Albany hill", land that has a great deal of history with Indians in the last century. The other part of what  I've collected has come from various places but always close to the bay or inlets from the bay, here in SF. Once, when I was digging by the creek, I began to notice that oddly there was an unusual amount of ALL THE SAME SIZE (about 1"X 3") greenish blue rocks. This started about a foot down. After digging another foot or so down I hit a mass of them (so many there was hardly any dirt within them) I wish I had a more exciting finish to this, but I just felt very much that I should not disturb whatever it was and I quickly covered the area (rocks first) back up and moved on.

Thats wild ! I wonder what those rock were?

With the exception of the chert flake (third from last), you've got what looks like some sort of sandstone. Obviously not first choice material, but when that's what's available, that's what you use.

For what this may be worth (assuming anything), the item in pictures 1-5 shows a lot of use wear (polish) on the working end. It's been broken, clearly, but it's been heavily used.

Picture number 9 shows clear evidence of having been modified by someone. Whether it was intended to be a tool, or was debitage removed and discarded in the course of shaping something is moot. It's not a "geofact" -- the removals are too purposeful and too numerous.

Same story with the item(s) in pictures 1-3 in the second set.

Casually made tools like these, often large, are a constant in shorter-term camp sites, from Paleo on down through time. The problem, as I see it, is that since they don't fit any of the usual mental templates of what a "tool" looks like, they get written off.