Breaking News: Mass shooting at Ft Hood Texas?

3 shooters, 2 on the loose, im guessing Muslims?

Now saying 12 killed and 31 wounded. One perp killed and two in custody. All perps were soldiers, one is a Major, reportedly with an "Arabic sounding name" according to sources....?!?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33678801/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

It sure would make me wonder about the true allegiance of the soldiers around me with Islamic names despite their citizenship, vows, etc.

An Army spokesman, Gary Tallman, said that the dead gunman was an Army major. A law enforcement official identified the him as Malik Nadal Hassan.

just turn on the T.V. it's everywhere.

Yeah I have been listening to it I am only 38 miles away from Ft hood and I almost went over to Killeen today.  So far no one that I know was hurt in it.  Please Pray for the victims and their families.

This relates to the murder of 5 British soldiers this week in Afghanistan who were mentoring their
slayer.
There is clearly a world wide web of Muslim assassins embedded in the military
and businesses of the Free World.
Will these two incidents be the "trigger" for a multitude of similar incidents?

How much longer till the folks at the Dairy Queens, gas stations, and motels start attacking us ?

That's exactly what I was thinking in general terms but you have put it better.
I was thinking of something like mass Muslim psychosis (like mass hysteria) that
could create an avalanche of like events.
In all sincerity , I will be avoiding my Muslim "friends" for a few weeks to see what eventuates
around the world.

3 shooters, 2 on the loose, im guessing Muslims?

I don't mean to make light of the situation or be facetious, but I'm guessing Southern Baptists or the ever unpredictable Penticostal Holiness Holy Rollers.  (Forgive me Brother Don and Brother Ted, I'm makin a point)  

SORRY

at This Point the Group of People
have One thing in Common.

U.S. Army.

& The Next person to accuse

Any Group of People
Without a News Report to back it up.

Will Have their post deleted.

do you think any of this relates to Mark's prediction of poisonous gas attack in Texas?

 Huh ? What was this all about ? I missed that one !

Read Marc's Story...

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,28494.0.html

This from Marc :
""Nerve clouds penetrate all waters all bases blown up who will be left will fight and kill for food have plenty food water and diarrhea medicine"

This is very poignant and should be remembered.

[The Virginia-born soldier]

FORT HOOD, Texas - A military mental health doctor facing deployment overseas opened fire at the Fort Hood Army base on Thursday, setting off on a rampage that killed 11 other people and left 31 wounded. Authorities killed the gunman, and the violence was believed to be the worst mass shooting in history at a U.S. military base.

The Virginia-born soldier was single with no children. He graduated from Virginia Tech University, where he was a member of the ROTC and earned a bachelor's degree in biochemistry in 1997. He received his medical degree from the military's Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., in 2001. At Walter Reed, he did his internship, residency and a fellowship.

Two other soldiers taken into custody following the deadly rampage were later released, the office of a Texas congressman said. A spokesman for Rep. John Carter says Fort Hood officials informed Carter's office of the release. Carter's congressional district includes the Army base.

[The Virginia-born soldier]

FORT HOOD, Texas - A military mental health doctor facing deployment overseas opened fire at the Fort Hood Army base on Thursday, setting off on a rampage that killed 11 other people and left 31 wounded. Authorities killed the gunman, and the violence was believed to be the worst mass shooting in history at a U.S. military base.

The Virginia-born soldier was single with no children. He graduated from Virginia Tech University, where he was a member of the ROTC and earned a bachelor's degree in biochemistry in 1997. He received his medical degree from the military's Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., in 2001. At Walter Reed, he did his internship, residency and a fellowship.

Two other soldiers taken into custody following the deadly rampage were later released, the office of a Texas congressman said. A spokesman for Rep. John Carter says Fort Hood officials informed Carter's office of the release. Carter's congressional district includes the Army base.

A perfect Muslim Mole (Malik Nadal Hassan)

so if he were a Christian


Would everyone be putting down Christians ?

NO !

Don't Blame a Group of People

For the actions of a Few, (In this case 1)

Or include the Blame on the U.S. Army

& Psycologists also & what about Virginians
( )

OR HOKIES since I seem to remember this is the
2nd. Hockie to open fire

I doubt if any of y'all truly have any 'Islamic' friends.  I actually do.  They're from west Africa, they work for me, and they're very upset about this.  I don't believe in Islam, but to each his own.  Although they say no one will believe them, their hearts are with the families.  I think they're sincere.  There's bad people in every religion.  I'm p'od that these boys lost their lives right here in our country.  And how was he able to take out that many before they got him?  We all think he was a crazy man, and would have been crazy even if he was a Methodist.

I need to say that, no not all muslims are like this. There are good folks that come from that area. What I am refering to are the extremists.

then please use the word extremists

Very good points Mac ; in the unlikely event it was not a Muslim extremist Jihadist,
then the other possibility is a  military mind altering drug experiment gone horribly
wrong.
 

The Military are of course into chemical warfare and the murderer was a psychology major.
Having a weapon such as this is the dream of all Governments.

[any]

I need to say that, no not all muslims are like this. There are good folks that come from that area. What I am refering to are the extremists.

then please use the word extremists

 Sorry, but this is a big thing to me. I wasn't thinkin' as I was typing. This goes back nearly 30 years for me. Something happened when I was younger, and I believe it is playing out now, and it literally scares me to no end, seein what is happening.

My Problem is there is a Good Chance
We Have some Muslem Friends here at treasureNet.
And Feel there is No reason they should
Be lumped in with anyperson
or Group who wishes Anyone Harm.
For Any Reason

My Problem is there is a Good Chance
We Have some Muslem Friends here at treasureNet.
And Feel there is No reason they should
Be lumped in with anyperson
or Group who wishes Anyone Harm.
For Any Reason


 So we can still use the term extremists to get our point across ?

Absolutely.
You add the word extremist(s)
& Don't turn this into a political debate.
The Posts & Threads Are fine by me

Your post is ok, Mcgearhead.  You got a lot of Muslim friends on here, too, by extension.  Out of all my employees, I guess about 50 or so are honest to God, pray to Allah five times a day, muslim.  They feel bad about this thing at Ft. Hood.  Since I am their boss, (they say I'm a good boss), if I tell them that you are a good man and you are my friend, well you're pretty much down with them dude.  (And when it gets down to it, all of us here at work, Catholics, Christians, Muslims, and others, are pretty much backsliders.  But, we got work to do.  We hit it pretty close..)

I have no insight into this man's mind or religious beliefs at this point, but I do remember reading somewhere that psychiatrists have one of the highest rates of suicide in the U.S., followed closely by police.  Which, in my mind, means they go bonkers at a higher rate than the ordinary bricklayer.  Someone knew he didn't want to go to Iraq.  When someone gets him/herself "worked up" over something, they might do anything.  People kill people everyday because they get mentally unbalanced.  His being a Muslim, at this point to me, has nothing to do with what he did.  He flipped out over his impending assignment.  Maybe time will tell me differently, but he didn't do the ordinary things a "jihadist" does, like enlist others to assist him, man himself with bombs to take out civilians around him, or leave a committee to say he did it for Islam.  He armed himself and shot people, probably knowing the MPs or someone would take him out.  When it was reported there were two other suspects being held, I considered it a plot, but those suspects were released, leaving him alone as the gunman.  It was a suicide mission for him, sure, but to me he was just another mentally ill person who made a good front to others, but couldn't handle life.  My condolences to the victims, their families and to his family as well.  Such a tragedy.

the news is saying he lived and is not in danger of dying.  That he is of Jordanian descent.  The soldiers were unarmed.

 You are right again, as usual Tee !!

 http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?...1087&sid=alrif4kkc02Q&pos=8

WOW!  How's that for NEWS?  For how many hours now have we heard he was among the dead, and now he's among the living?  Answers, maybe??  Wow!

I suppose his religious affiliation will come out in court, and they'll use that as a smoke screen.  If I was in court, we're gonna bring up my religious upbringin and how they kicked me out because  my hair touched my ears.  There's bad folks everywhere, folks; religion is just an excuse to fall back on.

I am a Solider of the United States Of America. Trained in Ft Sill on the Pershing II Missile system, deployed to Germany for over 2 years, back to Ft Sill for 2 more years, Tennessee National Guard as soon as I ETSed for 6 years as a M1 Tanker. I am not active now, and have not been since 1997, but the Friends I made, the love of country I have is as strong today as it was when I signed up and became a Solider. Even though not active I will forever be a Solider. I feel the pain of my comrads in arms, and it hurts to the core. I know there is a lot of info out there right now, some true, some not. Since we are at war with a Islamic controlled country I can understand the suspicion that this could be a Muslim extremist plot, but that is not supported by facts and remains a "could be". Although my "antenna" is up, I hope no one jumps to conclusions. The Jury cannot be out regarding this because it is so fresh the Jury has not been formed. I reserve my conclusions regarding this matter for a time when I have more information. Please, for the sake of all involved, show discretion and patience, please.

Well said, many of you! As a service-connected, disabled-retired Army vet, I understand and empathize with the dead, wounded
and their families!!! Prayers to all!!!
Being from the Lebanon era of service, I also have experience with Islamic radicalism. While I don't know what the deal was with Major Hassan, no matter what his motivation I have nothing but contempt for his cowardly and despicable acts!!! There must be a special place in Hell for such evil %$&#@s!!

I DO know not all Muslims are militant, and there needs to always be a distinction made. For those of you not familiar with the religion, allow me to point out how studying the Quran will demonstrate dramatically the difference between 'extremist' Muslims and 'tolerant' Muslims.

Muhammad wrote the first part of the Quran while in Mecca. He spent some thirteen years there, his writings characterized by tolerance, spirituality and exhortations to lead good lives. He lived a life of prayer, fasting and worship; never mentioning "jihad", he espoused peaceful coexistence with Jews and Christians. He basically had to leave Mecca when he encountered opposition to his negative views on the idolatry of the Kaaba.
He said Allah told him to relocate and he took his 150 or so followers to Medina. In Medina, Muhammad began to build an army, and as his power increased, his message began to change. His writings became increasingly militant and he began to express intolerance for opposing beliefs and conversion at sword point. He began to follow a revelation of jihad and even led some twenty-seven military attacks on 'infidels'. 
So for the first part of his adult life, Muhammad was a preacher (610-622). In the second half, he became a violent extremist (622-632).
Now the Quran is not arranged chronologically, rather, the longest verses (suras) are placed first. Out of the 114 suras composing the Quran, 90 were written while in Mecca, and the other 24 in Medina. Militant extremists say that "later" revelations 'replace' earlier ones, so basically Allah "changed his mind' and annulled the earlier 'tolerant' suras, supplanting them with ones that say to "slay the idolaters....." and "fight against those....who believe not in Allah....". Muhammad confirmed this in the Hadith, where he said he was "ordered" by Allah "to fight the people until they say: 'None has the right to be worshiped but Allah' ." This abrogation of older suras I believe is referred to as "Nasikh".
Non-extremists put emphasis on the Mecca writings of Muhammad, and radicals concentrate on the Medina 'revelations'.
So basically, when he was weak and not very popular, he was okay with other beliefs. But when he obtained power and support, he became violently intolerant. There are only two "Abodes" to radical Muslims; Dar al Islam and Dar al Harb (war).
If you aren't under Muslim control, you are at war. So it's either convert or die. There is no other option. Allah's will is to be forced upon humanity if not freely accepted. And the conflict is the infidel's fault because of the immoral and disordered nature of non-Islamic controlled society.
Interestingly enough, "belief" is not the primary consideration to Extremist Muslims, "behavior" is. If you do what you are supposed to as a Muslim, that is what's important.
And anything Extremists do is "Allah's will", and is automatically "ethical". Anything that disagrees with or disobeys "Allah's will" is unethical. Extremists want to wipe all nonextremist-Muslims off the face of the earth, and they don't care about giving non-Muslims a chance to convert and avoid "Hell".

Non-extremist Muslims put emphasis on the Mecca revelations and respect the sacredness of life, security, and peace. They believe Islamic 'rules of war' prohibit targeting civilians/non-combatants and suicide is prohibited because no-one but God has the right to take the life he has given. They believe you fight only in self-defense. 
I have a good friend who is a Muslim, and terrorism is as abhorrent to him as it is to me! We don't agree on the 'change' in Muhammad from Mecca to Medina, but we absolutely agree that he didn't advocate terrorism and "haraba"...............

Cyber, how do we know who is what?  Thanks for the lesson and insight into Islamic beliefs.

I get one message from this ; Muhammad changed from non-violent to a violent Jihadist,
therefore any other Muslim can also.
Looking at the background of terrorists before they "flipped" we see they were also peace loving young men.

[any]

My Problem is there is a Good Chance
We Have some Muslem Friends here at treasureNet.
And Feel there is No reason they should
Be lumped in with anyperson
or Group who wishes Anyone Harm.
For Any Reason

It would certainly be nice to hear from them, and to hear them publicly denounce the actions of this individual.


Jay

Hate Speach has one Meaning.

I Don't care where they are From,
Or what they Believe in or Don't Believe in
 for that Matter.

.

Maybe it's Because I Have No Religon at all,
that I Don't Hate him Either & Just Feel sorry for him.
and everyone involved,
but As far as I'm concerned Preaching Hate
towards anyone
on TreasureNet is Wrong

(Maybe I should be Amish   )

It's been reported that he was about to deploy to Afghanistan for the first time and was only in the Army to get the medical education at tax payer expense. He was at Walter Reed, got a "poor performance" evaluation, was sent to Ft. Hood, and was going to be going to theater.
Was trying to hire a lawyer to get out of the Army, maybe pay the Army back for the educational degree. It was a no-go. So, being the weasel pansy he was, he went on a murder spree.
However, I heard on the news this morning that officials have begun looking into his background and are uncovering evidence of him posting radical statements about suicide bombers and such.
Still too early to be definitive about anything except prayers for the families.

Scott

Yikes.  I wish my story wasn't online for all to read!  

Seriously though - just yesterday, I was telling my girlfriend...  

"Why were we so able to call communism, an ideology, evil, yet, we are unable to label another ideology, Islam, one that urges it's followers to wage Jehad against non-believers, as equally evil?"

Personally, I think we should DEPORT THEM ALL.  PERIOD.  If you are a devout Muslim, GO HOME. (Mecca, or Medina, or SOME OTHER PLACE OTHER THAN THE U.S. - OR the U.K.!)

My French girlfriend was deported a few years ago, while I was at the airport, waiting for her to de-plane, I sat there and watched while Pakistanis, and other Islamic people were able to stroll right off the plane without issues.

Anyway, that's enough of my ranting for now.

God bless all those effected by this tragedy.

Marc

p.s., it's a little strange.... just this morning - before I heard the tragic news, I was lying in bed thinking about "the writings"  One phrase reads "time good now for Marc to get what he wants while on job at arms will be called aerotec laugh now but will be given the opportunity and do not blow it".  (I have the originals) I was NOT at that particular session, in fact, I only read that phrase several years after the session...  but around that time, I had tried to join the Navy, so I looked at my tests, (I scored in the top 4%) I was STUNNED.  That session was one week BEFORE I took my tests, where I was offered the position of "AX". I would have been flying on awacs (or other hi tech planes) searching for submarines. If THAT'S not aerotec, I do NOT know what is!  Then I started thinking about what that was - a TRUE prophecy...  so one needs to ask himself, what is the difference between a true prophet and a false prophet? A true prophet's prophecies come TRUE!  Yes, I have seen some things.  AYE YAI YAI.

I just heard that HASAN hollered out "Ala Acbar! before he started shooting our servicemen!

He was shot and subdued by a WOMAN without being killed.

I know that there are women who can go toe to toe with any man. I married the daughter of one of them, so don't think I am being insulting with the above statement.

I made it because in the Jihadists' eyes, it is considered an insult and sign of weakness.

"Nothing stood out about Hasan as a radical or extremist, Khan said."

Wolf in sheep's clothing?

Just an observation----------------------------The armed forces trains their soldiers that they send overseas to fight in wars to kill the enemy. That is opposite of what they have been taught, by parents, teachers, and religion, for 18+ years, until they get the training------------- to kill their own kind--humans.

 Under severe stress and unknown state of mind and due to to circumstances most of us can't even imagine( like being in war under constant fire and the effects of chemical warfare)......isn't it amazing that more soldiers haven't "gone off their rockers" than they have?

Allowing Muslims in the U.S. military has already come back to bite us several times, anyone recall the Muslim soldiers who early on in the Iraq War threw a grenade into a command tent killing a few soldiers.  I realize this country has become P.C. and the Muslim's use it against us but I know if I was a soldier in combat I would not want someone loyal to the enemy next to me.  Fool me once shame on you.....  How can a true Muslim have loyalty to both the US military?

"Why were we so able to call communism, an ideology, evil, yet, we are unable to label another ideology, Islam, one that urges it's followers to wage Jehad against non-believers, as equally evil?"

Personally, I think we should DEPORT THEM ALL.  PERIOD.  If you are a devout Muslim, GO HOME. (Mecca, or Medina, or SOME OTHER PLACE OTHER THAN THE U.S. - OR the U.K.!)

Careful Marc, that kind of talk will get you deleted.

maybe so, but agree with marc

I do too. The comment reflects Marc being the owner of the site and hence can't be deleted. 

maybe so, but agree with marc

I agree with Marc also. 

maybe so, but agree with marc

I do too. The comment reflects Marc being the owner of the site and hence can't be deleted.  

I don't think Saturna was talking about THAT kind of deletion!   

We should rename this thread correctly, "Hatred 101".

The Fort Hood shooting makes me stomach turn with disgust. The responses here add to that disgust.

Your attitudes do not make me proud to be a US citizen.

Most of you are pointing fingers at people not like you, trying to lay blame for the actions of one person on an entire group of people.

We don't know why this tragedy occurred, and it's foolish to assume you know why. It is even more foolish to fingers at people not like you, trying to lay blame for the actions of one person on an entire group of people.

We should rename this thread correctly, "Hatred 101".

The Fort Hood shooting makes me stomach turn with disgust. The responses here add to that disgust.

Your attitudes do not make me proud to be a US citizen.

Most of you are pointing fingers at people not like you, trying to lay blame for the actions of one person on an entire group of people.

We don't know why this tragedy occurred, and it's foolish to assume you know why. It is even more foolish to fingers at people not like you, trying to lay blame for the actions of one person on an entire group of people.

If we didnt live in a P.C. world things like this might not occur.

The Fort Hood shooting makes me stomach turn with disgust. The responses here add to that disgust.

Your attitudes do not make me proud to be a US citizen.

Why would the views of some here make YOU ashamed of being a US citizen?

I'll bet no Muslim is ashamed of being a Muslim because of these shootings.


Jay

We should rename this thread correctly, "Hatred 101".

The Fort Hood shooting makes me stomach turn with disgust. The responses here add to that disgust.

Your attitudes do not make me proud to be a US citizen.

Most of you are pointing fingers at people not like you, trying to lay blame for the actions of one person on an entire group of people.

We don't know why this tragedy occurred, and it's foolish to assume you know why. It is even more foolish to fingers at people not like you, trying to lay blame for the actions of one person on an entire group of people.

No, let's call this what it is, Domestic Terrorism 101!  And whatever steps need to be taken to make sure this dosen't happen again should be taken! I guarantee you that if a middle aged white christian male did this, the media would crucify him! but in this case they are making all kind of excuses for this "poor" guy, while he gets the finest medical attention there is, and those of his kind rejoice in his accomplishment.

I am amazed at the kindness and sympathy shown towards this murderer.
As a person with psychiatric training he will be well versed in playing the "crazy card"
during his defence.

I am amazed at the kindness and sympathy shown towards this murderer.
As a person with psychiatric training he will be well versed in playing the "crazy card"
during his defence.

Please do not a) Confuse logical thinking with blind kindness, and b) Ignore the fact that he is "Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law".

I'm sorry, but in the USA we do not allow vigilante vengeance, we have laws for handling these things instead. You seem to be forgetting that.

Why would the views of some here make YOU ashamed of being a US citizen?

I'll bet no Muslim is ashamed of being a Muslim because of these shootings.

I don't know what Muslims are thinking right now, and i'm not going to assume that I do.

What I do know is that a lack of logical thought and a lack desire to uphold our own laws and constitutional rights makes the US look very stupid.

How can we dare preach to the world how great we are if we can't act the part?

I think folks are sick and tired of its Government and Society in general, being the "nice guy". with an "overkill" of political correctness.

I think folks are sick and tired of its Government being the "nice guy". with an "overkill" of
political correctness.

This isn't PC, this is the constitution.

This is the highest law of the land, you can't just ignore it and say we're being too political correct so we should throw it out.

After what the President has just said there's gonna be some changes :
"These are men and women who have made the selfless and courageous decision to risk and at times give their lives to protect the rest of us on a daily basis. "

"It's difficult enough when we lose these brave Americans in battles overseas. It is horrifying that they should come under fire at an army base on American soil."

Most of you are pointing fingers at people not like you, trying to lay blame for the actions of one person on an entire group of people.

We don't know why this tragedy occurred, and it's foolish to assume you know why. It is even more foolish to fingers at people not like you, trying to lay blame for the actions of one person on an entire group of people.

and then he turns around and says:

I don't know what Muslims are thinking right now, and i'm not going to assume that I do.

It sounds like "you can't lump them all in together" but "if it fits my need, I can lump them all in together." I am sure that is not what Lasivian meant. I'm sure it was a slip.

While I don't always agree politically - ok, seldom agree - with Lasivian, he is very consistent in his views. And in this matter I do agree. All Muslims can't be lumped into one group. They don't all believe the same, and they don't all hate this country. I know of a former Iranian army officer, a Muslim, who cared for an older crippled American Vietnam Veteran for almost 4 years. Before he died, my buddy told me they treated him better than his real family.

On the other hand, this man made his religion an issue by his actions and statements prior to the shootings. HE made it a religious matter. HE decided to bring religion into the situation. HE pulled the triggers. HE decided, based on his beliefs, that this was what he should do. Personally, I'm glad the woman didn't kill him. Now he gets to stand trial and face the people who lived. We get to show the world that we are a nation of laws. I hope the courts don't drop the ball.

From the news, and a friend at Fort Hood (works at the hospital) some of the wounded were shot accidentally by the MPs. Secondly, we will not know this Maj. motivations until he is conscious and can be questioned. It may be religiously related, or he may have just not wanted to deploy.

NOT ONE OF YOU KNOW WHY.

I had a guy in my unit in Iraq, a Muslim, and he has deployed FIVE TIMES. I guess he should be deported? People of all faiths (or no faith, like myself) are defending your freedoms, and you want to throw someone, some group of people under the bus, because it is no fun to play cowboys and indians if no one wants to be the indians.....

Most of you are pointing fingers at people not like you, trying to lay blame for the actions of one person on an entire group of people.

We don't know why this tragedy occurred, and it's foolish to assume you know why. It is even more foolish to fingers at people not like you, trying to lay blame for the actions of one person on an entire group of people.

and then he turns around and says:

I don't know what Muslims are thinking right now, and i'm not going to assume that I do.

It sounds like "you can't lump them all in together" but "if it fits my need, I can lump them all in together." I am sure that is not what Lasivian meant. I'm sure it was a slip.

While I don't always agree politically - ok, seldom agree - with Lasivian, he is very consistent in his views. And in this matter I do agree. All Muslims can't be lumped into one group. They don't all believe the same, and they don't all hate this country. I know of a former Iranian army officer, a Muslim, who cared for an older crippled American Vietnam Veteran for almost 4 years. Before he died, my buddy told me they treated him better than his real family.

On the other hand, this man made his religion an issue by his actions and statements prior to the shootings. HE made it a religious matter. HE decided to bring religion into the situation. HE pulled the triggers. HE decided, based on his beliefs, that this was what he should do. Personally, I'm glad the woman didn't kill him. Now he gets to stand trial and face the people who lived. We get to show the world that we are a nation of laws. I hope the courts don't drop the ball.

I am lumping users together based on the viewpoints they are posting here for ease of debate, I can make a list of names and address each user individually but I think that would be more argumentative than I intend. I am doing so based on their actions, not my assumption of what their actions might be. I am also not saying anything akin to "all conservatives act like this", such an assumption would be completely unfair and unfounded.

You are correct, I'm not perfect, but I try my best to be consistent. Thank you.

Also, we don't know if "he" actually did this, have we seen the evidence yet? Do we know what the police and MPs know? Nope, in fact yesterday the military said both the shooter and the woman that shot the shooter were dead, then they reversed both of those pieces of information. That seems like some awfully large pieces of info to report wrongly if you ask me. It shows how little we know and how wrong information can be. Would I be shocked to find out the shooter is someone else? Not at all.

The MPs may have just shot the first muslim they saw and asked questions later. Isnt speculation fun?

[any]

I don't trust any religion!  
But I do put my trust into Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior.


GG~

The MPs may have just shot the first muslim they saw and asked questions later. Isnt speculation fun?

Heard about it from someone who was involved in the shooting of the suspect.

He did make it a religious matter when he screamed "Allah Akbah!" (No, I can't spell it, but you know what I'm talking about).

I wonder if some of you realize how many middle easterners and muslims are actively involved in helping train us to be prepared. We worked with several before I went to Iraq. The rhetoric about deporting all muslims is stupid, period.

I guess since the russians went soft and democratic we needed a new nasty enemy to demonize. I am waiting to see more details. As I also said before, there seems to be evidence that the MPs are responsible for some of the wounded, not the shooter.

I wonder if some of you realize how many middle easterners and muslims are actively involved in helping train us to be prepared. We worked with several before I went to Iraq. The rhetoric about deporting all muslims is stupid, period.

I guess since the russians went soft and democratic we needed a new nasty enemy to demonize. I am waiting to see more details. As I also said before, there seems to be evidence that the MPs are responsible for some of the wounded, not the shooter.

Hell, we have been at war with the Muslims since our ancestors battled them in the crusades.  Its not new.

And we are still going to the middle east for equally questionable reasons. Hatred directed at one particular faith group is unAmerican. Of course, there are those who have called for my deportation since I am agnostic, and personages no less lofty thant President George HW Bush said atheists and agnostics are not real Americans.....

I wonder if some of you realize how many middle easterners and muslims are actively involved in helping train us to be prepared. We worked with several before I went to Iraq. The rhetoric about deporting all muslims is stupid, period.

I guess since the russians went soft and democratic we needed a new nasty enemy to demonize. I am waiting to see more details. As I also said before, there seems to be evidence that the MPs are responsible for some of the wounded, not the shooter.

The friendly fire would not have occurred without the perpetrators actions, please put the guilt where it is due.
It sounds like you are taking up for him.

GG~

Actuallly, I am going by this crazy, liberal AMERICAN concept of jurisprudence, called innocent until proven guilty, not proven guilty by the media, thanks.

I only hold one document as sacred, and that is the Constitution. This man is an American citizen, and a fellow member of the military. Pardon me for waiting until all the facts are in before I scream for him to be burned at the stake. I believe in justice, something that has been sorely lacking lately.

I wonder if some of you realize how many middle easterners and muslims are actively involved in helping train us to be prepared. We worked with several before I went to Iraq. The rhetoric about deporting all muslims is stupid, period.

I guess since the russians went soft and democratic we needed a new nasty enemy to demonize. I am waiting to see more details. As I also said before, there seems to be evidence that the MPs are responsible for some of the wounded, not the shooter.

Sure and this guy was one of them as was the one who threw a grenade into a command tent in 03'.   Next time they bust a Catholic cardinal or bishop for promoting terrorism or running a terrorist cell out of a church maybe i'll shange my views but I dont see that happening anytime soon.  People choose to follow the Koran just like people chose to follow Nazism, its not a race or ethnicity its a belief system.  People put down Christians, Republicans, Democrats, and other belief systems all the time why is it such a horrible thing to put down Muslims?  

Actuallly, I am going by this crazy, liberal AMERICAN concept of jurisprudence, called innocent until proven guilty, not proven guilty by the media, thanks.

I only hold one document as sacred, and that is the Constitution. This man is an American citizen, and a fellow member of the military. Pardon me for waiting until all the facts are in before I scream for him to be burned at the stake. I believe in justice, something that has been sorely lacking lately.

Im guessing this man would have been tried for treason and hung in the 19th century but who knows what will happen today he might even be released after a few years since this act was "brought on my teasing and racism".  But seriously did you just call him a "fellow member of the military"?  He sounds more like an enemy soldier who infiltrated our lines to me.

I wonder if some of you realize how many middle easterners and muslims are actively involved in helping train us to be prepared. We worked with several before I went to Iraq. The rhetoric about deporting all muslims is stupid, period.

Actuallly, I am going by this crazy, liberal AMERICAN concept of jurisprudence, called innocent until proven guilty, not proven guilty by the media, thanks.

I only hold one document as sacred, and that is the Constitution. This man is an American citizen, and a fellow member of the military. Pardon me for waiting until all the facts are in before I scream for him to be burned at the stake. I believe in justice, something that has been sorely lacking lately.

Well maybe he was just training your fellow members of the military on how a terrorist shoots unarmed fellow soldiers.


Just for the record I agree with your statement about justice being sorely lacking lately.
GG~

Let me repeat for the slow learners:

Actuallly, I am going by this crazy, liberal AMERICAN concept of jurisprudence, called innocent until proven guilty, not proven guilty by the media, thanks.

Let me repeat for the slow learners:

Actuallly, I am going by this crazy, liberal AMERICAN concept of jurisprudence, called innocent until proven guilty, not proven guilty by the media, thanks.

Tell that to the murdered soldiers families.

GG~

I do not generally trust when the military puts a story out. See: Jessica Lynch, and Pat Tillman.

I do not generally trust when the military puts a story out. See: Jessica Lynch, and Pat Tillman.

I have to agree with that.

GG~

So sad.  My step son was down there.
Most People are good. There are Bad ones, mostly Good people. (statics would say 2%)
 Who are we to judge. People are people, all people fear. Some give. I have been blessed to share a meal from Arabs where Christ was Christened. The Jordon River.  It was  an experience.  The guards were so young. Should write my story sometime.  But it is not a treasure.

So sad.  My step son was down there.
Most People are good. There are Bad ones, mostly Good people. (statics would say 2%)
 Who are we to judge. People are people, all people fear. Some give. I have been blessed to share a meal from Arabs where Christ was Christened. The Jordon River.  It was  an experience.  The guards were so young. Should write my story sometime.  But it is not a treasure.

Sounds like a treasure of the heart to me.
Would love to hear it sometime. You are welcome to post it on my personal page if you would care to.
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/board,720.0.html

GG~

His words are there. Humble thyself and give. (I should delete this)

(big hug)

Actuallly, I am going by this crazy, liberal AMERICAN concept of jurisprudence, called innocent until proven guilty, not proven guilty by the media, thanks.

I only hold one document as sacred, and that is the Constitution. This man is an American citizen, and a fellow member of the military. Pardon me for waiting until all the facts are in before I scream for him to be burned at the stake. I believe in justice, something that has been sorely lacking lately.

Preamble: "establish justice, ENSURE DOMESTIC TRANQUILITY". Is this part that is held sacred or is it conveniently ignored while the parts that support what you like are ok? Sounds like the people who love to rant about freedom to burn the American Flag while acting like the 2ND amendment does not exist. Although people are "innocent until proven guilty" by law, that does not mean Americans should suspend common sense. This scum is guilty as sin and does not deserve defending here. Although this scum is a member of our military, he is also the murder of his fellow soldiers, or I guess you might say "oh no, that is not proven yet". To this I say you have no common sense to make such a statement. This scumbag is "innocent" in name only, or do you doubt that he will be found guilty? Any sensable person knows this and defending this scum is sort of offensive. Well, it is a free Nation for now, and feel free to abuse your rights as much as you want.

I agree with 21stcav that the defence of such cowards whilst invoking the Constitution
is reprehensible and unforgivable.
I now remind you that the cowardly shooter is now in a coma being kept alive with a ventilator.
I leave it to your imagination as to what has to be done.

So I am getting called a coward now? I simply said that people are really quick to make a lot of assumptions. Some of the stories I have read have pointed out the possibility that the MPs shot some of the wounded by mistake. There has been a lot of misinformation already, and as I also pointed out earlier, the military has a lousy track record of putting out correct information when it may give them a black eye.

I am still in the Army. I have friends down at Fort Hood. I am not excusing this crime. What I absolutely refuse to do is make assumptions. Unless some of you were right there, how are you so sure? Because Muslims are evil subhumans who should be exterminated? Then fire up the ovens.

Some people are so brave and loud on the internet. I have been to Iraq. I have lost many people dear to me since the beginning of these two wars, and some of them were by their own hand, not by an IED or anything else.

I have worked alongside American Muslims, and those that left Iraq and Afghanistan to work with us to help make their countries better.

The racism, hatred and quick judgements abounding disgust me. As I said, I believe in law, and justice. What I have been seeing so far has nothing to do with justice. And Piggy....I guess you should nominate yourself as Judge, Jury and Executioner, to go down there and kill someone on a ventilator. NOW WHO IS A COWARD?

I have a problem with the way this country uses the media to decide guilt. We have a judicial system for a reason. As someone who was convicted in a court of popular opinion, I know how that feels personally.

Too many stories were flying around right after the shooting. As I said, I have friends down there. I am going to take a "wait and see" attitude.

Look at it this way: Suppose Fort Hood pins it on this Major, comatose and paralyzed...and another shooting occurs because they did not get the right person? Then what?

What if this incident is used to stir up anti muslim sentiment, and someone decides to go out and kill a dozen or so American Muslims, because they believe that it is "Us" or "them"?

All this poisonous spewing of hate makes me sick to my stomach. And much of it seems to be coming from people who are in no danger of going in the military, and do not actually know any muslims personally.

As I am sure I have said before, I am agnostic. I hold all religions equally relevant, while following none of them. I will refrain from going into further detail, except to say that no one can say whether or not there is a god, gods, etc with any accuracy, so I personally leave that question open.

Right now I am taking the claims of the shooter screaming "Allahu Akhbar" about as accurately as the account of Pat Tillman storming a hill to take out insurgents (for those who do not know, Pat Tillman, NFL star turned soldier, was killed in a friendly fire incident that the Army tried to use for propaganda purposes).

I doubt it. I have been in both of those buildings within the last year, but do not specifically remember seeing surveillance cameras.

I wonder if some of you realize how many middle easterners and muslims are actively involved in helping train us to be prepared. We worked with several before I went to Iraq. The rhetoric about deporting all muslims is stupid, period.

I guess since the russians went soft and democratic we needed a new nasty enemy to demonize. I am waiting to see more details. As I also said before, there seems to be evidence that the MPs are responsible for some of the wounded, not the shooter.

The friendly fire would not have occurred without the perpetrators actions, please put the guilt where it is due.
It sounds like you are taking up for him.

GG~

Yes, "the perpetrators actions" are what we are trying to focus on, not any group of people. Whoever that perpetrator might be.

As for guilt the USA does not run on the assumption of guilt however you seem to be. You are confusing "innocent until proven guilty" with something like "oh i'm sure he is innocent". He has the right to a fair trial as a US citizen, and he has the right to be viewed as innocent until proven guilty.

This thread is a perfect example of finding someone guilty in "the court of public opinion" not a court of law.

I hope they wrap him in pig skin before he is buried.

What purpose of justice would that serve, exactly? NONE. May as well tell Jihadists to start crucifying Christian soldiers after they behead them......

What purpose of justice would that serve, exactly? NONE. May as well tell Jihadists to start crucifying Christian soldiers after they behead them......

What purpose? Well it would make me and many more people happy but it could also put a curb on the Muslims by making them think twice before pulling a stunt like this knowing that even if they die they will not be seeing Allah.  Crusifying Christians does not deny them the afterlife but from what i've heard burying a Muslim in pig skin does.  I still get a big smile on my face when I read accounts of the Christian Knights entering Jerusalem after its fall in 1099.   .

The West has been --deleted--footing with the enemy for too long.
What Jimmy (PA) suggests is playing with their minds for as it stands now
they are not afraid. It is the West that is afraid; suicide rates are high, soldiers
are afraid to confront the Muslim enemy.

I'm Confused!

In WWI we had infiltrators!

In WWII we had them!

In The Korean War We Had them!

In Vietnam We Had them!

People We Are At War!

Just Get OVER IT and get the Job Done!

The People we are at War with are not Muslims.  These are a Weird Extream Faction Corrupted by Ambitions!



These are Uneducated to the most parts and Indoctrinated into a world of Hate of people they do not even know.

I've live with them in Turkey and Greece and all I can say is they Just Do Not Think Like You or I Do!!!

People like the Col that just did the thing in Texas, are just plain Brain Washed!!!!

Just like you can take all the Guns away from Everyone, Your never going to stop people from killing each other.

These people have Never Liked us.

They Will Never Like Us!

We took them From the Stone Ages, and if we wish to live a Peaceful life will have to put them back there.

They have been fighting amongst themself for 2000 years.

What makes you think your going to stop it now?

If this Post is Deleted, Your Hiding from the Truth!

The US Army is no place for conscientious objectors yet there are many in place.

And I went to Iraq and saved several lives, which is a fact that has cause some around here to question the validity of my service.

I believe in justice, the law, and fairness. Not BS ideas of a new Crusade. I could care less about your Holy lands, and I do not give a flying pound of monkey feces for it. I could solve the whole middle east problem by dropping a nuke on the Dome of the Rock.

If some of you feel so strongly about this, go out and kill a Muslim. Put your money where your big, braying, stupid mouths are.

If this Post is Deleted, Your Hiding from the Truth!

Jeff's interest in deleting this thread or some posts seems to have waned since Marc made the same comments that would have gotten others deleted.
 


 Jay

Sidebar: The syrup of Saturna, aka lead acetate, was partly responsible for the downfall of the roman empire.

What a good response. 
We can not judge other people.
I like meat. But do not like killing a fly. 
I kill ticks, and try to research them.
(I use to many I)
I agree with you.

Thank you for your post. 

me

And I went to Iraq and saved several lives, which is a fact that has cause some around here to question the validity of my service.

I believe in justice, the law, and fairness. Not BS ideas of a new Crusade. I could care less about your Holy lands, and I do not give a flying pound of monkey feces for it. I could solve the whole middle east problem by dropping a nuke on the Dome of the Rock.

If some of you feel so strongly about this, go out and kill a Muslim. Put your money where your big, braying, stupid mouths are.

Would you please pat youself on the back a little more. Wanna hear about my expolots in West Germany and the Bader Meinhof gang??? How about exploding Discos, and fellow soldiers dieing on field problems? I am not questioning a thing about your service or your devotion to duty. Now your practical common sense, THAT I question. Yes this Muslim coward murder  is innocent until proven guilty. Of course we all know he is guilty. A camera? Why don't you just ask the survivors if he was the one, or I guess their word is not enough. Again, this scumbag Muslim is innocent in name only. Extremist Muslims world wide rejoice when they find a American with your lack of common sense and willingness to ignore reality. No you go on little boy and bray all you want. Hey, you are defending all Americans rights, including your own, to abuse the liberty's secured by the Constitution. Geeeezzzz

It is good to see the level of respect for a fellow servicemember. I know, I am just a crazy liberal that believes in rule of law over mob justice, and the articles of the UCMJ, which this Major will fall under, if he survives.

As far as the eyewitnesses....they have generally been put under a gag order by the command at Fort Hood. As I said before, I know a few people there.

But sure, lets go kill all muslims, and wrap them in bacon, because that is what a just, good America would do.

Seems like you have forgotten a lot since you were in the service. Mainly the Personal Courage and the Honor portions of the seven Army values.

If some of you feel so strongly about this, go out and kill a Muslim. Put your money where your big, braying, stupid mouths are.

So what are you saying??

The same as this BBC headline.??

"Shooting Raises Fears For Muslims In US Army"

Lets cut the PC crap....Right now the body count stands at:

Non-Muslims 13
Muslims 0

It is good to see the level of respect for a fellow servicemember. I know, I am just a crazy liberal that believes in rule of law over mob justice, and the articles of the UCMJ, which this Major will fall under, if he survives.

As far as the eyewitnesses....they have generally been put under a gag order by the command at Fort Hood. As I said before, I know a few people there.

But sure, lets go kill all muslims, and wrap them in bacon, because that is what a just, good America would do.

Seems like you have forgotten a lot since you were in the service. Mainly the Personal Courage and the Honor portions of the seven Army values.

As an American I follow the laws but if it was ever open season.....   Oh and lets face it, that is what most America would do, before the days when the few P.C. controlled the majority.  My Grandfather served as a tanker in Korea during the war, his brothers all served in WW2, most of his friends are WW2 and Korea Vets, everyone of them i've spoke to feels the way we do, not you.  Maybe the new military feels the way you do but most older combat vets do not and I have met many of them.  Do they lack courage and values?  I realize this war is far more dangerous than the battlefields of Europe, the pacific, Korea, and Vietnam but...  

Haven't read through many replies, will try to later.

My own thoughts - These things are bound to keep happening, and worse, if we do not take measures to pro actively and preemptively defend ourselves.
There is very little outrage, if any, being expressed officially.
The word it "just be calm", and our so-called leaders seem to be in some hypnotic trance, wondering "why did this terrible tragedy have to happen" ?
Instead of shooting the --deleted-- within 24 hours, after an on the spot court marshal, this is going to drag on for years. The muslim that did that grenade attack in Iraq was sentenced to death in 2005 - Guess what, still in appeals.
What a friggin joke, no ones got a pair anymore, everyones afraid to say anything that will upset any of the precious minorities.
The guy was born in the USA from Palestinian parents.
Born in the USA, yet he is still quoted as saying that he is muslim first, American 2nd and I can guaren damn tee you that they all think that way, and its time that these --deleted--s  start adapting to our culture, our customs, our country, instead of everyone bending over backwards to adapt to them - And they can get the hell out on the first boat if they don't like it.

This meek official reaction "lets have calm, lets not rush any judgment" is all you hear, so now the radical islamics know that all that they can expect when they launch attacks on US soil is hand wringing and moaning.
This is only going to encourage the mall/bus style homicide attacks that until now have been confined to the mid east - Until the people themselves, meaning you and I, start reacting, the government is not going to do 1 single thing about this.
I was flipping through some news channels and on MSNBC their line was "It could have been anyone, an Irishman, a Catholic" ,,, As if the fact that this guy is muslim and shouted ABDUL AKBAR or whatever the hell it is that they say, has nothing to do with this.
My god, no wonder so many throughout the world predict that we are on our last legs.
An outrage like this, a religiously motivated homicide attack on our own troops in our own nation, and everyones just looking for excuses, absolutely pathetic.

edit: Read through some of the replies, its not my style to change anything that I have written.
I will say that when I refer to muslims I mean "extremist muslims" - And before I get jumped by GI Joe for being an armchair warrior, 8 year USMC vet here, including Desert Storm.
I have likewise worked professionally with muslims that I'd classify as decent folks - Doesn't mean I'd want to take them home with me, and that doesn't mean that they wouldn't stick a fork in my back if Allah told them to do it.

Just like extremist christians are not above blowing up an abortion clinic.

[their]

I think he was just plain mentally unstable, just like the abortion bombers and murderers. They seem to murder because they are nuts and think that they are doing the right thing in the name of their particular religion, whatever that might be.

Bottom line: They are just plain and simply "mentally somewhere over the rainbow."

Scott

Far too many self proclaimed christians are running around judging everyone. As far as this case, yes, I think it was a mental instability issue, not an issue of religious fervor.

One of my friends who was a mental health specialist in Iraq had a nervous breakdown, because all day long, six days a week, she heard an endless stream of horror stories from the marines. And when you are mental health, you do not really have anyone to go to.....

As I have said more than once, we have a legal system in this country for a reason, but most people seemed to have forgotten that, opting instead for the instant gratification of "Trial by Media."

Far too many self proclaimed christians are running around judging everyone. As far as this case, yes, I think it was a mental instability issue, not an issue of religious fervor.

One of my friends who was a mental health specialist in Iraq had a nervous breakdown, because all day long, six days a week, she heard an endless stream of horror stories from the marines. And when you are mental health, you do not really have anyone to go to.....

As I have said more than once, we have a legal system in this country for a reason, but most people seemed to have forgotten that, opting instead for the instant gratification of "Trial by Media."

If trial by media really worked and public opinion really counted then O.J. would be in prison so dont give it too much credit in fixing trials.  As far as all these nervous breakdowns from what i've heard from a lot of vets its just a way to get out of combat, get drugs, get an easy desk job.  I remember one older guy at the VFW saying if they gave every soldier a break who had a bad day in WW2 they would still be on the beaches of North Africa.  Todays military is all volunteer and anyone who joins not thinking you will see some bad stuff and war needs to read some history. Granted im sure it does happen in severe cases but I think its played up way too much especially by liberals, almost like kids and attention disorders.  I thank God everyday for the men who sucked it up and marched on.

So why is it that so many WWII, Korean war, and Vietnam era vets are jamming VA centers trying to get PTSD claims in? Are they just looking for attention and more money?

I have issues that result from things I have seen. So do many other soldiers I have worked and deployed with. Mental illness and combat stress are very real, and this is why we have such a sickeningly high suicide, divorce, alcoholism and drug abuse rate in the military.

Just like extremist christians are not above blowing up an abortion clinic.

You care to compare the carnage caused by extremist Christians vs extremist muslims, I'm ready when you are.
There is no comparison, as both you & I know - Its just one of the talking points that you people are fond of, along with "Yeah, so what about Timothy McVeigh??"