Breaking News: Mass shooting at Ft Hood Texas?

So I am getting called a coward now? I simply said that people are really quick to make a lot of assumptions. Some of the stories I have read have pointed out the possibility that the MPs shot some of the wounded by mistake. There has been a lot of misinformation already, and as I also pointed out earlier, the military has a lousy track record of putting out correct information when it may give them a black eye.

I am still in the Army. I have friends down at Fort Hood. I am not excusing this crime. What I absolutely refuse to do is make assumptions. Unless some of you were right there, how are you so sure? Because Muslims are evil subhumans who should be exterminated? Then fire up the ovens.

Some people are so brave and loud on the internet. I have been to Iraq. I have lost many people dear to me since the beginning of these two wars, and some of them were by their own hand, not by an IED or anything else.

I have worked alongside American Muslims, and those that left Iraq and Afghanistan to work with us to help make their countries better.

The racism, hatred and quick judgements abounding disgust me. As I said, I believe in law, and justice. What I have been seeing so far has nothing to do with justice. And Piggy....I guess you should nominate yourself as Judge, Jury and Executioner, to go down there and kill someone on a ventilator. NOW WHO IS A COWARD?

respectfully...please re read the responses....I may just be having a no sleep moment but I think all were calling the shooter a coward....I could be wrong but I don't believe anyone was calling you one.

Folks need to remember that life and death is held in one's tongue and that we can choose to plant good seeds or weeds.  There is good and bad in all walks of life....When someone does an evil act....those weeds need to be cleaned out of the garden...not have excuses made for their actions.  This is just my humble opinion.

I have a problem with the way this country uses the media to decide guilt. We have a judicial system for a reason. As someone who was convicted in a court of popular opinion, I know how that feels personally.

Too many stories were flying around right after the shooting. As I said, I have friends down there. I am going to take a "wait and see" attitude.

Look at it this way: Suppose Fort Hood pins it on this Major, comatose and paralyzed...and another shooting occurs because they did not get the right person? Then what?

What if this incident is used to stir up anti muslim sentiment, and someone decides to go out and kill a dozen or so American Muslims, because they believe that it is "Us" or "them"?

All this poisonous spewing of hate makes me sick to my stomach. And much of it seems to be coming from people who are in no danger of going in the military, and do not actually know any muslims personally.

As I am sure I have said before, I am agnostic. I hold all religions equally relevant, while following none of them. I will refrain from going into further detail, except to say that no one can say whether or not there is a god, gods, etc with any accuracy, so I personally leave that question open.

Right now I am taking the claims of the shooter screaming "Allahu Akhbar" about as accurately as the account of Pat Tillman storming a hill to take out insurgents (for those who do not know, Pat Tillman, NFL star turned soldier, was killed in a friendly fire incident that the Army tried to use for propaganda purposes).

I have a problem with the way this country uses the media to decide guilt. We have a judicial system for a reason. As someone who was convicted in a court of popular opinion, I know how that feels personally.

Too many stories were flying around right after the shooting. As I said, I have friends down there. I am going to take a "wait and see" attitude.

Look at it this way: Suppose Fort Hood pins it on this Major, comatose and paralyzed...and another shooting occurs because they did not get the right person? Then what?

What if this incident is used to stir up anti muslim sentiment, and someone decides to go out and kill a dozen or so American Muslims, because they believe that it is "Us" or "them"?

All this poisonous spewing of hate makes me sick to my stomach. And much of it seems to be coming from people who are in no danger of going in the military, and do not actually know any muslims personally.

As I am sure I have said before, I am agnostic. I hold all religions equally relevant, while following none of them. I will refrain from going into further detail, except to say that no one can say whether or not there is a god, gods, etc with any accuracy, so I personally leave that question open.

Right now I am taking the claims of the shooter screaming "Allahu Akhbar" about as accurately as the account of Pat Tillman storming a hill to take out insurgents (for those who do not know, Pat Tillman, NFL star turned soldier, was killed in a friendly fire incident that the Army tried to use for propaganda purposes).

all valid points....was there any video cameras in the room where it took place?

I doubt it. I have been in both of those buildings within the last year, but do not specifically remember seeing surveillance cameras.

I wonder if some of you realize how many middle easterners and muslims are actively involved in helping train us to be prepared. We worked with several before I went to Iraq. The rhetoric about deporting all muslims is stupid, period.

I guess since the russians went soft and democratic we needed a new nasty enemy to demonize. I am waiting to see more details. As I also said before, there seems to be evidence that the MPs are responsible for some of the wounded, not the shooter.

The friendly fire would not have occurred without the perpetrators actions, please put the guilt where it is due.
It sounds like you are taking up for him.

GG~

Yes, "the perpetrators actions" are what we are trying to focus on, not any group of people. Whoever that perpetrator might be.

As for guilt the USA does not run on the assumption of guilt however you seem to be. You are confusing "innocent until proven guilty" with something like "oh i'm sure he is innocent". He has the right to a fair trial as a US citizen, and he has the right to be viewed as innocent until proven guilty.

This thread is a perfect example of finding someone guilty in "the court of public opinion" not a court of law.

I hope they wrap him in pig skin before he is buried.

What purpose of justice would that serve, exactly? NONE. May as well tell Jihadists to start crucifying Christian soldiers after they behead them......

What purpose of justice would that serve, exactly? NONE. May as well tell Jihadists to start crucifying Christian soldiers after they behead them......

What purpose? Well it would make me and many more people happy but it could also put a curb on the Muslims by making them think twice before pulling a stunt like this knowing that even if they die they will not be seeing Allah.  Crusifying Christians does not deny them the afterlife but from what i've heard burying a Muslim in pig skin does.  I still get a big smile on my face when I read accounts of the Christian Knights entering Jerusalem after its fall in 1099.   .

The West has been --deleted--footing with the enemy for too long.
What Jimmy (PA) suggests is playing with their minds for as it stands now
they are not afraid. It is the West that is afraid; suicide rates are high, soldiers
are afraid to confront the Muslim enemy.

I'm Confused!

In WWI we had infiltrators!

In WWII we had them!

In The Korean War We Had them!

In Vietnam We Had them!

People We Are At War!

Just Get OVER IT and get the Job Done!

The People we are at War with are not Muslims.  These are a Weird Extream Faction Corrupted by Ambitions!



These are Uneducated to the most parts and Indoctrinated into a world of Hate of people they do not even know.

I've live with them in Turkey and Greece and all I can say is they Just Do Not Think Like You or I Do!!!

People like the Col that just did the thing in Texas, are just plain Brain Washed!!!!

Just like you can take all the Guns away from Everyone, Your never going to stop people from killing each other.

These people have Never Liked us.

They Will Never Like Us!

We took them From the Stone Ages, and if we wish to live a Peaceful life will have to put them back there.

They have been fighting amongst themself for 2000 years.

What makes you think your going to stop it now?

If this Post is Deleted, Your Hiding from the Truth!

The US Army is no place for conscientious objectors yet there are many in place.

And I went to Iraq and saved several lives, which is a fact that has cause some around here to question the validity of my service.

I believe in justice, the law, and fairness. Not BS ideas of a new Crusade. I could care less about your Holy lands, and I do not give a flying pound of monkey feces for it. I could solve the whole middle east problem by dropping a nuke on the Dome of the Rock.

If some of you feel so strongly about this, go out and kill a Muslim. Put your money where your big, braying, stupid mouths are.

If this Post is Deleted, Your Hiding from the Truth!

Jeff's interest in deleting this thread or some posts seems to have waned since Marc made the same comments that would have gotten others deleted.
 


 Jay

Sidebar: The syrup of Saturna, aka lead acetate, was partly responsible for the downfall of the roman empire.

What a good response. 
We can not judge other people.
I like meat. But do not like killing a fly. 
I kill ticks, and try to research them.
(I use to many I)
I agree with you.

Thank you for your post. 

me

And I went to Iraq and saved several lives, which is a fact that has cause some around here to question the validity of my service.

I believe in justice, the law, and fairness. Not BS ideas of a new Crusade. I could care less about your Holy lands, and I do not give a flying pound of monkey feces for it. I could solve the whole middle east problem by dropping a nuke on the Dome of the Rock.

If some of you feel so strongly about this, go out and kill a Muslim. Put your money where your big, braying, stupid mouths are.

Would you please pat youself on the back a little more. Wanna hear about my expolots in West Germany and the Bader Meinhof gang??? How about exploding Discos, and fellow soldiers dieing on field problems? I am not questioning a thing about your service or your devotion to duty. Now your practical common sense, THAT I question. Yes this Muslim coward murder  is innocent until proven guilty. Of course we all know he is guilty. A camera? Why don't you just ask the survivors if he was the one, or I guess their word is not enough. Again, this scumbag Muslim is innocent in name only. Extremist Muslims world wide rejoice when they find a American with your lack of common sense and willingness to ignore reality. No you go on little boy and bray all you want. Hey, you are defending all Americans rights, including your own, to abuse the liberty's secured by the Constitution. Geeeezzzz

It is good to see the level of respect for a fellow servicemember. I know, I am just a crazy liberal that believes in rule of law over mob justice, and the articles of the UCMJ, which this Major will fall under, if he survives.

As far as the eyewitnesses....they have generally been put under a gag order by the command at Fort Hood. As I said before, I know a few people there.

But sure, lets go kill all muslims, and wrap them in bacon, because that is what a just, good America would do.

Seems like you have forgotten a lot since you were in the service. Mainly the Personal Courage and the Honor portions of the seven Army values.

And I went to Iraq and saved several lives, which is a fact that has cause some around here to question the validity of my service.

I believe in justice, the law, and fairness. Not BS ideas of a new Crusade. I could care less about your Holy lands, and I do not give a flying pound of monkey feces for it. I could solve the whole middle east problem by dropping a nuke on the Dome of the Rock.

If some of you feel so strongly about this, go out and kill a Muslim. Put your money where your big, braying, stupid mouths are.

sorry, but this one was uncalled for and wrong.

If some of you feel so strongly about this, go out and kill a Muslim. Put your money where your big, braying, stupid mouths are.

So what are you saying??

The same as this BBC headline.??

"Shooting Raises Fears For Muslims In US Army"

Lets cut the PC crap....Right now the body count stands at:

Non-Muslims 13
Muslims 0

It is good to see the level of respect for a fellow servicemember. I know, I am just a crazy liberal that believes in rule of law over mob justice, and the articles of the UCMJ, which this Major will fall under, if he survives.

As far as the eyewitnesses....they have generally been put under a gag order by the command at Fort Hood. As I said before, I know a few people there.

But sure, lets go kill all muslims, and wrap them in bacon, because that is what a just, good America would do.

Seems like you have forgotten a lot since you were in the service. Mainly the Personal Courage and the Honor portions of the seven Army values.

As an American I follow the laws but if it was ever open season.....   Oh and lets face it, that is what most America would do, before the days when the few P.C. controlled the majority.  My Grandfather served as a tanker in Korea during the war, his brothers all served in WW2, most of his friends are WW2 and Korea Vets, everyone of them i've spoke to feels the way we do, not you.  Maybe the new military feels the way you do but most older combat vets do not and I have met many of them.  Do they lack courage and values?  I realize this war is far more dangerous than the battlefields of Europe, the pacific, Korea, and Vietnam but...  

Haven't read through many replies, will try to later.

My own thoughts - These things are bound to keep happening, and worse, if we do not take measures to pro actively and preemptively defend ourselves.
There is very little outrage, if any, being expressed officially.
The word it "just be calm", and our so-called leaders seem to be in some hypnotic trance, wondering "why did this terrible tragedy have to happen" ?
Instead of shooting the --deleted-- within 24 hours, after an on the spot court marshal, this is going to drag on for years. The muslim that did that grenade attack in Iraq was sentenced to death in 2005 - Guess what, still in appeals.
What a friggin joke, no ones got a pair anymore, everyones afraid to say anything that will upset any of the precious minorities.
The guy was born in the USA from Palestinian parents.
Born in the USA, yet he is still quoted as saying that he is muslim first, American 2nd and I can guaren damn tee you that they all think that way, and its time that these --deleted--s  start adapting to our culture, our customs, our country, instead of everyone bending over backwards to adapt to them - And they can get the hell out on the first boat if they don't like it.

This meek official reaction "lets have calm, lets not rush any judgment" is all you hear, so now the radical islamics know that all that they can expect when they launch attacks on US soil is hand wringing and moaning.
This is only going to encourage the mall/bus style homicide attacks that until now have been confined to the mid east - Until the people themselves, meaning you and I, start reacting, the government is not going to do 1 single thing about this.
I was flipping through some news channels and on MSNBC their line was "It could have been anyone, an Irishman, a Catholic" ,,, As if the fact that this guy is muslim and shouted ABDUL AKBAR or whatever the hell it is that they say, has nothing to do with this.
My god, no wonder so many throughout the world predict that we are on our last legs.
An outrage like this, a religiously motivated homicide attack on our own troops in our own nation, and everyones just looking for excuses, absolutely pathetic.

edit: Read through some of the replies, its not my style to change anything that I have written.
I will say that when I refer to muslims I mean "extremist muslims" - And before I get jumped by GI Joe for being an armchair warrior, 8 year USMC vet here, including Desert Storm.
I have likewise worked professionally with muslims that I'd classify as decent folks - Doesn't mean I'd want to take them home with me, and that doesn't mean that they wouldn't stick a fork in my back if Allah told them to do it.

Just like extremist christians are not above blowing up an abortion clinic.

Just like extremist christians are not above blowing up an abortion clinic.

 And they too will have to stand before God one day for thier actions.

[their]

I think he was just plain mentally unstable, just like the abortion bombers and murderers. They seem to murder because they are nuts and think that they are doing the right thing in the name of their particular religion, whatever that might be.

Bottom line: They are just plain and simply "mentally somewhere over the rainbow."

Scott

Just like extremist christians are not above blowing up an abortion clinic.

Then these folks are far from being christian....I am glad you used a small c....

It is up to God to judge the women who choose abortion and He will.

Far too many self proclaimed christians are running around judging everyone. As far as this case, yes, I think it was a mental instability issue, not an issue of religious fervor.

One of my friends who was a mental health specialist in Iraq had a nervous breakdown, because all day long, six days a week, she heard an endless stream of horror stories from the marines. And when you are mental health, you do not really have anyone to go to.....

As I have said more than once, we have a legal system in this country for a reason, but most people seemed to have forgotten that, opting instead for the instant gratification of "Trial by Media."

Far too many self proclaimed christians are running around judging everyone. As far as this case, yes, I think it was a mental instability issue, not an issue of religious fervor.

One of my friends who was a mental health specialist in Iraq had a nervous breakdown, because all day long, six days a week, she heard an endless stream of horror stories from the marines. And when you are mental health, you do not really have anyone to go to.....

As I have said more than once, we have a legal system in this country for a reason, but most people seemed to have forgotten that, opting instead for the instant gratification of "Trial by Media."

If trial by media really worked and public opinion really counted then O.J. would be in prison so dont give it too much credit in fixing trials.  As far as all these nervous breakdowns from what i've heard from a lot of vets its just a way to get out of combat, get drugs, get an easy desk job.  I remember one older guy at the VFW saying if they gave every soldier a break who had a bad day in WW2 they would still be on the beaches of North Africa.  Todays military is all volunteer and anyone who joins not thinking you will see some bad stuff and war needs to read some history. Granted im sure it does happen in severe cases but I think its played up way too much especially by liberals, almost like kids and attention disorders.  I thank God everyday for the men who sucked it up and marched on.

So why is it that so many WWII, Korean war, and Vietnam era vets are jamming VA centers trying to get PTSD claims in? Are they just looking for attention and more money?

I have issues that result from things I have seen. So do many other soldiers I have worked and deployed with. Mental illness and combat stress are very real, and this is why we have such a sickeningly high suicide, divorce, alcoholism and drug abuse rate in the military.

Just like extremist christians are not above blowing up an abortion clinic.

You care to compare the carnage caused by extremist Christians vs extremist muslims, I'm ready when you are.
There is no comparison, as both you & I know - Its just one of the talking points that you people are fond of, along with "Yeah, so what about Timothy McVeigh??"

Who exactly are "you people"?

I could care less why someone decides to slaughter people, nor do I care what uniform they wear, what religious creed they subscribe to, or any of a million other stupid reasons people kill each other en masse.

What I like even less than that are those who call for the murder of other people, especially if those people happen to be Americans, based on their particular religion, orientation, political affiliation, etc.

Who exactly are "you people"?

I could care less why someone decides to slaughter people, nor do I care what uniform they wear, what religious creed they subscribe to, or any of a million other stupid reasons people kill each other en masse.

What I like even less than that are those who call for the murder of other people, especially if those people happen to be Americans, based on their particular religion, orientation, political affiliation, etc.

You know exactly who you people are - And I find "I could care less why someone decides to slaughter people" a pretty stunning statement, even though I think you meant that you couldn't care less, not could.
We should now ignore root causes and motivations of murderers ?
Perhaps you'd care to expand on this, would you like this to apply across the board ?
For instance, homicide detectives sure care about the reasons why someone decides to slaughter people, are they now to find a new profession, under your doctrine ?

Not sure who is calling for the murder of Americans, another tendency of you people is crass exaggeration and outright lies to suit your agenda.
Be specific please, theatrical hype just won't do.

Do some back reading. I believe the specific statements were deport all muslims in America...which includes American citizens, as the alleged shooter was.

Other statements included murdering muslims and then wrapping them in a pig hide.

Quit being a sissy, and come right out and say which one of "you people" I am. I meant to put in there that I do not care what the REASONS someone claims for killing large numbers of people. To put it more simply, who gives a flying monkey butt if someone kills lots of people for Allah, or because God told them to, or because the were recieveing encoded messages from their TV?

There is no more inherent drive to murder based on someone being a muslim than there is with someone being a christian. And since it has not been invoked yet....Hitler was a christian. He did a bang up job of murdering millions, unless you are a Holocaust denier too.

Oh, so you turned "deport muslims" into "kill innocent Americans" and didn't think anyone would notice ?
Just another example of the lengths you people will go through to sensationalize.
No one said to "murder muslims and then wrapping them in a pig hide", you are so childish, I swear.
The poster was referring to 1 specific individual, the one who slaughtered our troops in their own land in a religiously motivated rage, not all muslims.
Stop your damn cheap theatrics, you sound ridiculous, a child could poke holes in your ludicrous assertions.

I personally think that they should drag him, ventilator & all, to Ft Hood, commence a field court marshal, conscious or not, and put him before a firing squad within 24 hours.
Further, his immediate family should be given 72 hours to wrap up their affairs, and be deported to country of origin - Which shouldn't be too harsh, after all, they express such a fervorous affinity for their homeland, so they can have it.

You sound like a cream puff - Nothing personal if you are ,,, But are you a girl ?
I know, your Captain America who served in Iraq yadda yadda, maybe you should have stayed there.

.Hitler was a christian. He did a bang up job of murdering millions, unless you are a Holocaust denier too.

just saying you are a christian does not make one so....He actually was brought up Chatolic and then went on to make his own religion...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_religious_beliefs

With a degree in law, I assure you if he is paralyzed.... he will be hauled into the courtroom and receive the Justice deserved.  By the way the last one that rolled a grenade into the tent while serving in Iraq, convicted of killing fellow soldiers is at Leavenworth.Military prison......solitary confinement....not allowed in the general population....wonder why.