Rare 10th Regimental Continental Button Find!

Yea went back today to try my luck again but no good! Just not in the spot the other piece is for sure unless it's deeper.Anyway purdy much a bust.With day light so short and this being a long ride.3hrs on the road this I'm leaving to my dad as he said he'll keep checking for me. Here they are for what it's worth the pewter button with the # 10 on it is a first.

Whats the large item 3rd from the bottom pic?

Whats the large item 3rd from the bottom pic?

Some type of button!

You call that a bust! It's a great day! I haven't found an example of it yet, but there's a very good chance you've found an extremely rare Continental Army button!!!

You have found one of the Continental Army buttons from the revolutionary War. Rarer than the U.S.A. button.

You call that a bust! It's a great day! I haven't found an example of it yet, but there's a very good chance you've found an extremely rare Continental Army button!!!

NOT AGAIN I GIVE UP!

I could not find a 10 like that in Troiani's book, but not to say it is not a Rev War button, maybe someone will find an example of what your button is.

I see you found both parts of the brass whatisit of BB's famous post!  I have almost the identical two parts also.

Nice group of more old finds!  A successful hunt despite not finding the other half of the spoon.....

Ah, another unusual not found too often find in your group, A Stock buckle!  

Don

I could not find a 10 like that in Troiani's book, but not to say it is not a Rev War button, maybe someone will find an example of what your button is.

I see you found both parts of the brass whatisit of BB's famous post!  I have almost the identical two parts also.

Nice group of more old finds!  A successful hunt despite not finding the other half of the spoon.....

Don

Thanks Don,very thankful buddy!

Don, Troiani's book is not that complete. It is in Albert (R10) . This button is a rare one..

Don, Troiani's book is not that complete. It is in Albert (R10) . This button is a major rarity.

I GIVE UPPPPPPPPPPPP!!

Don, Troiani's book is not that complete. It is in Albert (R10) . This button is a major rarity.

Agreed it is the one in Albert's book, however, not sure it is a major rarity or not.

Hopefully the scan will come though this time...

Some of these regimental buttons are so rare that many museums do not own them. Valley Frorge Museum for instance, only has examples of three other regimental examples but not yours, despite the 10th disbanding at Valley Forge. . Once again, congratulations on a stellar find!

   Great find!  Does it have the Clarke backmark like Albert's says some do?  I think Any American button besides the USA ones are rare, just a matter of how rare.  Would want to seal that one right away.

   Great find!  Does it have the Clarke backmark like Albert's says some do?  I think Any American button besides the USA ones are rare, just a matter of how rare.  Would want to seal that one right away.

I'll go look and take a pic. for you.I'm guessing with what I've read on your post before urethan.

Hopefully the scan will come though this time...

These regimental buttons are so rare that many museums do not own them.

 That's not uncommon.  Some of the Loyalist stuff we were finding about 10 years ago were the same idea, very few museums, and next to nothing in private collections. There are still very rare buttons to be found digging early sites!

   Great find!  Does it have the Clarke backmark like Albert's says some do?  I think Any American button besides the USA ones are rare, just a matter of how rare.  Would want to seal that one right away.

I'll go look and take a pic. for you.I'm guessing with what I've read on your post before urethan.

   
  That's what I'd use. Just make sure it's clear and wipe it so the coat is very thin.  Do a few trial runs on other buttons because there is no second chance.

   Great find!  Does it have the Clarke backmark like Albert's says some do?  I think Any American button besides the USA ones are rare, just a matter of how rare.  Would want to seal that one right away.

I'll go look and take a pic. for you.I'm guessing with what I've read on your post before urethan.

I believe I have used Matte finish for less chance of getting it to appear shiny, just light coats, sure IP has more experience doing them, I have only done a few...

Don

   Great find!  Does it have the Clarke backmark like Albert's says some do?  I think Any American button besides the USA ones are rare, just a matter of how rare.  Would want to seal that one right away.

I'll go look and take a pic. for you.I'm guessing with what I've read on your post before urethan.

I believe I have used Matte finish for less chance of getting it to appear shiny, just light coats, sure IP has more experience doing them, I have only done a few...

Don

  I've probably done at least 30.  The key is simply to wipe it after you paint it on.  It takes pretty much all of it off the face, but still gets into the cracks where you want it to be.  I do the same on sides. The back you can leave it a little thicker if you want, no big deal about the back. Your button is actually pretty slick looking so you should have a good result.

I went down in garage and found the can I use, it is CLEAR ACRYLIC SEALER Matte Finish.   Picked up my spray can of it at a nationally known Craft Store.

Don

It looks like you've got something else there fairly unusual; a great coat sized button with what seems to be a "gilt" backstamp. I've dug many large "dandys" but I don't recall finding a thin large one backmarked. Have you Don or patch?

I went down in garage and found the can I use, it is CLEAR ACRYLIC SEALER Matte Finish.   Picked up my spray can of it at a nationally known Craft Store.

Don

  Here's what I use and is from the button man himself. (Troiani)

 

Here Guy's It looks like mary 

It looks like you've got something else there fairly unusual; a great coat sized button with what seems to be a "gilt" backstamp. I've dug many large "dandys" but I don't recall finding a thin large one backmarked. Have you Don or patch?

  Nope. I don't recall ever getting a backmarked button that large.  I do have a pretty large Brit. navy but can't recall if it's marked.

I went down in garage and found the can I use, it is CLEAR ACRYLIC SEALER Matte Finish.   Picked up my spray can of it at a nationally known Craft Store.

Don

  Here's what I use and is from the button man himself. (Troiani)

Mine is the suggestion  from another button man himself, not George either and hopefully he will read this post shortly.  

 

  Well regardless what is used I think everyone will agree it has to be done. Too good a find to take a chance on more edge loss or cracking.

  Well regardless what is used I think everyone will agree it has to be done. Too good a find to take a chance on more edge loss or cracking.

Is that what it is suppose to be patch Mary? 

Here Guy's It looks like mary  

Timekiller, Patch was asking because of few of the regimentals are backmarked "Clarke", but nothing in Albert specifies which ones besides one example.

Odds seem pretty good considring where you found it, that your button was from the short lived N. Carolina regiment which disbanded at Valley Forge. When Albert published his last book no 10th had been found there.

Here Guy's It looks like mary 

Timekiller, Patch was asking because of few of the regimentals are backmarked "Clarke", but nothing in Albert specifies which ones.

Odds seem pretty good considring where you found it, that your button was from the short lived N. Carolina regiment which disbanded at Valley Forge. When Albert published his last book no 10th had been found there.

Thanks buddy,but it looks like mary on the back.I'm tring to understand is that good or bad!

   

Nice finds like the 10 button.

   

Yea I know here we go Again??

"Thanks buddy,but it looks like mary on the back.I'm tring to understand is that good or bad!  "

Timekiller, if Troliani doesn't have it listed, and if Albert lists it but doesn't have a decent exmple to show a backmark, then it is very very good!

"Thanks buddy,but it looks like mary on the back.I'm tring to understand is that good or bad!  "

Timekiller, if Troliani doesn't have it listed, and if Albert lists it but doesn't have a decent exmple to show a backmark, then it is very very good!

SUPER I"LL PUT HER WITH MY OTHER.................................. BANNER FINDS! 

Holy smokes.....

Keep going back to that site and you will own that banner.  
Can't wait to see the other half of that spoon mold

What an awsome find

Congratulation.  

Holy smokes.....

Keep going back to that site and you will own that banner.  
Can't wait to see the other half of that spoon mold

What an awsome find

Congratulation.  

Thanks Buddy.

"Thanks buddy,but it looks like mary on the back.I'm tring to understand is that good or bad!  "

Timekiller, if Troliani doesn't have it listed, and if Albert lists it but doesn't have a decent exmple to show a backmark, then it is very very good!

  I don't think the mark or lack of really makes much difference.  No doubt there would be some interest in that one given how few are probably around.

"Thanks buddy,but it looks like mary on the back.I'm tring to understand is that good or bad!  "

Timekiller, if Troliani doesn't have it listed, and if Albert lists it but doesn't have a decent exmple to show a backmark, then it is very very good!

SUPER I"LL PUT HER WITH MY OTHER.................................. BANNER FINDS! 

  You mean your Fanner finds.  The ones you swung and missed. 

"Thanks buddy,but it looks like mary on the back.I'm tring to understand is that good or bad!  "

Timekiller, if Troliani doesn't have it listed, and if Albert lists it but doesn't have a decent exmple to show a backmark, then it is very very good!

SUPER I"LL PUT HER WITH MY OTHER.................................. BANNER FINDS! 

  You mean your Fanner finds.  The ones you swung and missed. 

Roger!!  N.C. Home RUNS!!!

YOOOOOOOOOOooooOOOOOOOoooooOOOOO, Pete the Colonial Man,

You have taken over the reigns as King of Colonial!!   Your past three months of finds would have given me, as well as many others, massive heart attacks.   Unbelievable, Pete, unbelievable!!

I hope you make the banner on your spoon mold and now this killer Rev War button! 

You are truly hunting a  type site...a one of a kind, Pete!

Kyle

  Sweet button find!!  

Steve

If it is from the 10th that button has quite a story to tell.  Looks like that bunch were plucked right out of the movie "Stripes"  



~ "The Continental Army" by Robert K. Wright, Jr., published by the Center of Military History, United States Army, Washington DC, 1983. (The book is part of the Army Lineage Series).
SHEPPARD'S ADDITIONAL CONTINENTAL REGIIMENT (10th North Carolina Regiment) p. 303: Authorized 17 April 1777 in the North Carolina State Troops as Sheppard's Regiment.
Organized 19 April- I July 1777 at KINSTON to consist of eight companies from the northeastern part of the state. Adopted 17 June 1777 into the Continental Army as Sheppard's Additional Continental Regiment and assigned to the Main Army. Disbanded I June 1778 at Valley Forge, Pennsylvania.
Engagements: Philadelphia-Monmouth.
This is the story. Abraham Sheppard commanded a battalion in South Carolina. There was just one problem: he hated South Carolina. He hated the climate, he hated the mosquitos, he hated the people. There was not one good thing he could say about the state. So he started pleading with the North Carolina Legislature to please, please, please get him out of that state. He wanted to create another North Carolina regiment. At first, the Legislature said no. North Carolina already had 9 regiments; the state didn't need any more. Sheppard continued pleading, and then his pleading turned to promising. If North Carolina would let him create a tenth Regiment, he would recruit 300 men, march them North and help Washington pound the British. If the legislature would let him do that, the war would be over much sooner. That sounded like an excellent proposition to the North Carolina Legislature. Could he really recruit 300 men? Yes, he could, he told them; just please get him out of SC and give him a chance! So they did. The 10th North Carolina Regiment was authorized 17 April 1777 and organized 19 April-1 July 1777. Sheppard put out handbills all over the northeastern part of the state, promising a great bonus to any man who would enlist.The majority of respondents were sick, tattered, backcountry men. Sheppard should have known that to march these men anywhere would be asking them to commit suicide. However, he was free of South Carolina. He was back in civilization. So he reported that he had his men. Good, said Washington. Go to Richmond, Virginia and await further orders. In June 1777, Sheppard marched his men into Virginia, but stopped only a few miles from Halifax, where he parked his men. Then he returned to his home in Dobbs County, North Carolina--and the IOth did not advance. Washington became quite irritated when he did not see those 300 men of the 10th anywhere in sight. When Sheppard was discovered enjoying homelife in Dobbs County, he was ordered to immediately rejoin his men and march them on to Maryland--no ifs, ands, or buts. This was a war--not a Sunday picnic. Reluctantly, Sheppard joined his men, and they began the long march forward. Several problems immediately arose, however:
1. His men didn't have any shoes.
2. HIS men didn't have any breeches.
3. His men didn't have any food.
4. And the bonuses promised the men for joining the Army were put on hold. They weren't going to get the money until after they had fulfilled their mission of combat. All of these problems, plus the rotten weather, made the men of the IOth rather grumpy. The lack of clothing and food made them rather ill. Many of them came down with various ailments and many of them died while enroute. One reason for the slowness of the march was because the IOth had to stop every few miles to bury someone. Desertions were out of sight. By the time they reached Maryland, the desertion rate was one man for every mile. Washington really became angry when he discovered that those promised 300 men had not yet reached Valley Forge. Where were they, any way? Winter was setting in; he was planning a huge campaign in a few months. He needed those men! They were so slow in arriving at Valley Forge that he finally sent out an officer to hurry them on in. Sheppard's Additional Continental Regiment (the 10th North Carolina) did not arrive at Valley Forge until February! When they finally scraggled in, only a few of them remained. They were so late in arriving, they missed the smallpox innoculation. And so few of them remained, that Washington disbanded the 10th altogether. The survivors were disbursed among the other existing units, primarily the Ist North Carolina and the 2d North Carolina.

Rankin said the main problem with the 10th North Carolina Regiment was its inept leader, Abraham Sheppard. "While he was enthusiastic, he was a BIG PROCRASTINATOR. His records were so dishelved that no one could really tell who was assigned to his unit. His brother, Benjamin Sheppard, handled the money for the unit, and a lot of graph was going on at the top--something many of the enlistees paid for dearly with their lives. It wasn't that the IOth did not receive shoes or breeches or food. The 10th received more than the other 9. The graft at the top quickly consumed what the unit was actually given.

YOOOOOOOOOOooooOOOOOOOoooooOOOOO, Pete the Colonial Man,

You have taken over the reigns as King of Colonial!!   Your past three months of finds would have given me, as well as many others, massive heart attacks.   Unbelievable, Pete, unbelievable!!

I hope you make the banner on your spoon mold and now this killer Rev War button! 

You are truly hunting a  type site...a one of a kind, Pete!

Kyle

I thought you might have gone to bed buddy,but here you are and THANKS MUCH!!!! I might have to put my dad on hold on this baby as even when I thought I had a bad day.NOT SO BAD Makes it even more enjoyable!  

If it is from the 10th that button has quite a story to tell.  Looks like that bunch were plucked right out of the movie "Stripes"  



~ "The Continental Army" by Robert K. Wright, Jr., published by the Center of Military History, United States Army, Washington DC, 1983. (The book is part of the Army Lineage Series).
SHEPPARD'S ADDITIONAL CONTINENTAL REGIIMENT (10th North Carolina Regiment) p. 303: Authorized 17 April 1777 in the North Carolina State Troops as Sheppard's Regiment.
Organized 19 April- I July 1777 at KINSTON to consist of eight companies from the northeastern part of the state. Adopted 17 June 1777 into the Continental Army as Sheppard's Additional Continental Regiment and assigned to the Main Army. Disbanded I June 1778 at Valley Forge, Pennsylvania.
Engagements: Philadelphia-Monmouth.
This is the story. Abraham Sheppard commanded a battalion in South Carolina. There was just one problem: he hated South Carolina. He hated the climate, he hated the mosquitos, he hated the people. There was not one good thing he could say about the state. So he started pleading with the North Carolina Legislature to please, please, please get him out of that state. He wanted to create another North Carolina regiment. At first, the Legislature said no. North Carolina already had 9 regiments; the state didn't need any more. Sheppard continued pleading, and then his pleading turned to promising. If North Carolina would let him create a tenth Regiment, he would recruit 300 men, march them North and help Washington pound the British. If the legislature would let him do that, the war would be over much sooner. That sounded like an excellent proposition to the North Carolina Legislature. Could he really recruit 300 men? Yes, he could, he told them; just please get him out of SC and give him a chance! So they did. The 10th North Carolina Regiment was authorized 17 April 1777 and organized 19 April-1 July 1777. Sheppard put out handbills all over the northeastern part of the state, promising a great bonus to any man who would enlist.The majority of respondents were sick, tattered, backcountry men. Sheppard should have known that to march these men anywhere would be asking them to commit suicide. However, he was free of South Carolina. He was back in civilization. So he reported that he had his men. Good, said Washington. Go to Richmond, Virginia and await further orders. In June 1777, Sheppard marched his men into Virginia, but stopped only a few miles from Halifax, where he parked his men. Then he returned to his home in Dobbs County, North Carolina--and the IOth did not advance. Washington became quite irritated when he did not see those 300 men of the 10th anywhere in sight. When Sheppard was discovered enjoying homelife in Dobbs County, he was ordered to immediately rejoin his men and march them on to Maryland--no ifs, ands, or buts. This was a war--not a Sunday picnic. Reluctantly, Sheppard joined his men, and they began the long march forward. Several problems immediately arose, however:
1. His men didn't have any shoes.
2. HIS men didn't have any breeches.
3. His men didn't have any food.
4. And the bonuses promised the men for joining the Army were put on hold. They weren't going to get the money until after they had fulfilled their mission of combat. All of these problems, plus the rotten weather, made the men of the IOth rather grumpy. The lack of clothing and food made them rather ill. Many of them came down with various ailments and many of them died while enroute. One reason for the slowness of the march was because the IOth had to stop every few miles to bury someone. Desertions were out of sight. By the time they reached Maryland, the desertion rate was one man for every mile. Washington really became angry when he discovered that those promised 300 men had not yet reached Valley Forge. Where were they, any way? Winter was setting in; he was planning a huge campaign in a few months. He needed those men! They were so slow in arriving at Valley Forge that he finally sent out an officer to hurry them on in. Sheppard's Additional Continental Regiment (the 10th North Carolina) did not arrive at Valley Forge until February! When they finally scraggled in, only a few of them remained. They were so late in arriving, they missed the smallpox innoculation. And so few of them remained, that Washington disbanded the 10th altogether. The survivors were disbursed among the other existing units, primarily the Ist North Carolina and the 2d North Carolina.

Rankin said the main problem with the 10th North Carolina Regiment was its inept leader, Abraham Sheppard. "While he was enthusiastic, he was a BIG PROCRASTINATOR. His records were so dishelved that no one could really tell who was assigned to his unit. His brother, Benjamin Sheppard, handled the money for the unit, and a lot of graph was going on at the top--something many of the enlistees paid for dearly with their lives. It wasn't that the IOth did not receive shoes or breeches or food. The 10th received more than the other 9. The graft at the top quickly consumed what the unit was actually given.

Man I love That history lesson!

Timekiller, the history Bob wrote here demonstrates again just how remarkable this find is. Despite this regiment being disbanded at valley Forge, at the time of Albert's research, the Valley Forge Museum did not have (and may still not have)  an example of a tenth regiment button.

This site is starting to make since in one way then with the spurs and buckles and now buttons. But a long ways from those places metioned. That's Cool!

    Great button. Did anyone say banner yet?   

 

You have the most amazing spot to hunt ever!!!! I couldn't be more jealous.  Congrats again on a BANNER worthy find.  Not sure if it will help, but I am voting BANNER all the way on this one. 

Looks like you will be on top again bud   Nice button

Pete, I think you need to change the title of your post.  You will get more views as a result.

Pete, I think you need to change the title of your post.  You will get more views as a result.

To maybe (dummy don't know!) I will Buddy Thanks!

thats not a "strike" thats a home run.

Patch, great research there!  I love the fact that "so many of these are in such poor condition with the backs corroded to know if they were similarly marked"!!!  Well now we know the answer, there is a different backmark on the 10, and we can make a pretty sure bet that the 10 that was dug at Valley Forge after Albert published his book is NOT a Pa. or  Mass,, but is from the short lived N.Carolina!  Very exciting evening here on Tnet! 

Patch, great research there!  I love the fact that "so many of these are in such poor condition with the backs corroded to know if they were similarly marked"!!!  Well now we know the answer, there is a different backmark on the 10, and we can make a pretty sure bet that the 10 that was dug at Valley Forge after Albert published his book is NOT a Pa. or  Mass,, but is from the short lived N.Carolina!  Very exciting evening here on Tnet!  

How many has been found? Roughly!

Patch, great research there!  I love the fact that "so many of these are in such poor condition with the backs corroded to know if they were similarly marked"!!!  Well now we know the answer, there is a different backmark on the 10, and we can make a pretty sure bet that the 10 that was dug at Valley Forge after Albert published his book is NOT a Pa. or  Mass,, but is from the short lived N.Carolina!  Very exciting evening here on Tnet! 

  Yep, backmark or not it being found where it was has to point at it being 10th NC.

  Pete, you should write Don Troiani, I'm sure he'd like to know of it, and can probably answer any questions you have.  chainshot@aol.com

Patch, great research there!  I love the fact that "so many of these are in such poor condition with the backs corroded to know if they were similarly marked"!!!  Well now we know the answer, there is a different backmark on the 10, and we can make a pretty sure bet that the 10 that was dug at Valley Forge after Albert published his book is NOT a Pa. or  Mass,, but is from the short lived N.Carolina!  Very exciting evening here on Tnet! 

  Yep, backmark or not it being found where it was has to point at it being 10th NC.

  Pete, you should write Don Troiani, I'm sure he'd like to know of it, and can probably answer any questions you have.  chainshot@aol.com

Thanks Patch, Big help buddy!

I see what looks to me at least ARY If not mary But I could be wrong needs a little more cleaning! It apears to have a letter in front of the A but not sure it can be seen even after a little more cleaning!

I see what looks to me at least ARY If not mary But I could be wrong needs a little more cleaning! It apears to have a letter in front of the A but not sure it can be seen even after a little more cleaning!

 

    It's probably the AR in Clarke you see.  I wouldn't try to clean it, not much you can do with it anyway.   The mark is just gone.

BANNER ALL THE WAY!!!!!!

I see what looks to me at least ARY If not mary But I could be wrong needs a little more cleaning! It apears to have a letter in front of the A but not sure it can be seen even after a little more cleaning!

 

    It's probably the AR in Clarke you see.  I wouldn't try to clean it, not much you can do with it anyway.   The mark is just gone.

Maybe so Patch it would make since as i was't able to see all the letters in the token either tell I saw another token to match it with.

Wow, great find brother, keep up the great hunting.  I vote banner also.  Bryan in Goldsboro

 

Pete...... there isn't much I could say about your Latest BANNER find that the outhers haven't already said not that I would know what to say so I will just say you are the American Colonial King

SS

Nice 

NC 10th Banner Button 

I would keep hunting that spot until I found a spork mold 

Just wanted to add these pics. from this morning as I notice my shots at night here in the house with these plant lights makes them look yellowish or something! ALSO THANKS FOR THE KIND WORDS GUY'S!
                                                   TK,

  The color is much more accurate but detail not near as good. Make sure you send both pics if you contact anyone.

I have looked Tice's book over for something to match and haven't found anything yet.

Your new photo makes me wonder if the last two letters may be, "NY" as in New York.  An abbreviation for the location of the button maker.  The "A" being the last letter of the name of the maker.

If you are tired of hunting that place send me a message, I'd be happy to search your leavings.

Those are some nice early finds

HH Jer

I have looked Tice's book over for something to match and haven't found anything yet.

Your new photo makes me wonder if the last two letters may be, "NY" as in New York.  An abbreviation for the location of the button maker.  The "A" being the last letter of the name of the maker.

If you are tired of hunting that place send me a message, I'd be happy to search your leavings.

I Gotcha, not tired yet!  

SWEEEEEET!!!!!!!!

Timekiller, I was thinking last night why so few of the N. Carolina's have been known found in N. Carolina, and why the majority have been found in Pa., leading some experts to assume they may have been the Pennsylvania or Mass. 10th Regiments.

Besides the fact that finally we now know the "10" wasn't made by Clarke, we also know the 10th N. Carolina had it's engagements in Pa. before the surrender so it would be naturual for the button to show up in Pa..

The thing is, the 10th surrendered as a regiment at Valley Forge, and my guess, with all this button has told us already, is that one of the first thing to be demanded of this huge group of captives was the buttons. They had some value, but beyond that it would prevent the rag tag Continental Army from recasting its limited amount of pewter into buttons for the existing Army. Your button is definately going to cause some second guesses. Once again, stellar find!

Timekiller, I was thinking last night why so few of the N. Carolina's have been known found in N. Carolina, and why the majority have been found in Pa., leading some experts to assume they may have been the Pennsylvania or Mass. 10th Regiments.

Besides the fact that finally we now know the "10" wasn't made by Clarke, we also know the 10th N. Carolina had it's engagements in Pa. before the surrender so it would be naturual for the button to show up in Pa..

The thing is, the 10th surrendered as a regiment at Valley Forge, and my guess, with all this button has told us already, is that one of the first thing to be demanded of this huge group of captives was the buttons. They had some value, but beyond that it would prevent the rag tag Continental Army from recasting its limited amount of pewter into buttons for the existing Army. Your button is definately going to cause some second guesses. Once again, stellar find!

I'm confused again,I thought that is what it say's on the back   

very nice find.

Timekiller, I was thinking last night why so few of the N. Carolina's have been known found in N. Carolina, and why the majority have been found in Pa., leading some experts to assume they may have been the Pennsylvania or Mass. 10th Regiments.

Besides the fact that finally we now know the "10" wasn't made by Clarke, we also know the 10th N. Carolina had it's engagements in Pa. before the surrender so it would be naturual for the button to show up in Pa..

The thing is, the 10th surrendered as a regiment at Valley Forge, and my guess, with all this button has told us already, is that one of the first thing to be demanded of this huge group of captives was the buttons. They had some value, but beyond that it would prevent the rag tag Continental Army from recasting its limited amount of pewter into buttons for the existing Army. Your button is definately going to cause some second guesses. Once again, stellar find!

I'm confused again,I thought that is what it say's on the back    

No, from what you've told us and shown, it doesn't say Clarke on the back.

Apparently from what we've read in other resources so far, some of the recessed numeral regimentals were made by Clarke, but apparently the "10" had not had an identified maker (until yours showed up).   It was only a guess by some experts that the "10" was a Pa. or a Mass., and that was based on style and where most were found.

Again, it would be natural for most "10s" to be found in Pa. because that is where the N. Carolina served. It was the exraordinary circumstances of their surrender though, coupled with the fact that few were found in N. Carolina, that suggest the following scenerio:

When the entire regiment surrendered their buttons would likely be confiscated by the British; both for their limited monetary value, to reduce moral, and as well,  so they could not fall back into the hands of the Continental Army to be recast.

Remember, this was an entire regiment that surrendered at once, and that may have presented a more obvious opportunity for the British then in other circumstances.

Timekiller, I was thinking last night why so few of the N. Carolina's have been known found in N. Carolina, and why the majority have been found in Pa., leading some experts to assume they may have been the Pennsylvania or Mass. 10th Regiments.

Besides the fact that finally we now know the "10" wasn't made by Clarke, we also know the 10th N. Carolina had it's engagements in Pa. before the surrender so it would be naturual for the button to show up in Pa..

The thing is, the 10th surrendered as a regiment at Valley Forge, and my guess, with all this button has told us already, is that one of the first thing to be demanded of this huge group of captives was the buttons. They had some value, but beyond that it would prevent the rag tag Continental Army from recasting its limited amount of pewter into buttons for the existing Army. Your button is definately going to cause some second guesses. Once again, stellar find!

I'm confused again,I thought that is what it say's on the back   

No, from what you've told us and shown, it doesn't say Clarke on the back.

Apparently from what we've read in other resources so far, some of the recessed numeral regimentals were made by Clarke, but apparently the "10" had not had an identified maker (until yours showed up).   It was only a guess by some experts that the "10" was a Pa. or a Mass., and that was based on style and where most were found.

Again, it would be natural for most "10s" to be found in Pa. because that is where the N. Carolina served. It was the exraordinary circumstances of their surrender though, coupled with the fact that few were found in N. Carolina, that suggest the following scenerio: When the entire regiment surrendered their buttons would likely be confiscated by the British; both for their limited monetary value, to reduce moral, and as well,  so they could not fall back into the hands of the Continental Army to be recast.

Remember, this was an entire regiment that surrendered at once, and trhat may have presented a more obvious opportunity then in other circumstances.

Thanks Buddy,Yea I just don't know enough about these things.I know old sites, I go, and find things and post with the hope that people like you can help with them as I think the older stuff is great.But I'm learning and very thankful for you ALL on that! Finding Old Sites now That I know! Just becomes easy after years of doing it!

WOW  nice piece of history right there. BANNER all the way for sure.   Congrats bigtime.       jgas

Banner vote in...

Ip, I got up with Don,And this was his 1 reply followed by his 2nd!
 1st REPLY,
Pete,
 
If you mean North Carolina. The 10th had lost a complete shipment of uniforms and accoutrements arrive just after they left N America in 1778 which was taken by the Rebels . Apparently the Delaware Regiment and possibly other American troops were issued the red coats of the 10th which is why you find them down that way. I don't have my references handy, I think also extra 10th equipment wound up with some Loyalist units which they sold before they left. 10th buttons and a beltplate have been dug around Camden. Don T.
 
Feel free to post this reply as it may save me having to answer this question in the future.
 
Cheers
Don     
2nd REPLY,
Hold on.................now that I see the CLEAR picture. That is an American 10th, a rare type issued early in the war generally associated with Pennsylvania troops but may have been worn by others, This is why it's important to send clear pictures!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
 
BTW the little piece with two studs might be the washer to a British beltplate. Don
 
 
Thanks Much!!

  Sounds like you sent him the bad pic! 

  ...but if he calls it rare it's definitely RARE.

   What a fine bunch of digs~!   A banner in my book~~

 :hello:Congrats ,I wanna come out & hunt with you! BANNER4 sure!

congrats  on an awesome find !!!

DOES ANYONE ELSE WANT TO VOTE BANNER?  IT CERTAINLY SHOULD BE..   Helooo? BANNER,BANNER,BANNER,BANNER!!!!!!!!!

Navy button, generally intended for officers, eagle facing left over upright anchor, 13 stars, inner and outer rope borders, one piece button dating to the 1820's to 1830's.
Backmark: "ROBINSON & CO / (dot) * (dot) EXTRA RICH  (dot) * (dot) " rm between two solid raised rings, outer rounded border, ca 1820's by Richard Robinson. (RobinsonR08)
One piece flat or coin style button, coat size.  This might help ID that button Great find !! 

This is the front of the button it might be not the same as yours

Nice find!  Loved the history lesson about the 10th. 

Congrats on the RARE find... like  IP and Don say...get that sealed right away...
there may be more 10th's pewters in that area and an even better example may pop out...not that I would throw away that sweet button --------------->NO QUESTION BANNNNNNNNER!  VOTE is IN

I'm out of room!The good and the bad! Since JanO9 finds and I have no where left to put them.(Bad) Lots of finds (GooD)!! Time for another display cabinet!!

And not a single banner find in the lot. 

And not a single banner find in the lot. 

No I left that out the token!
 Gotta go shopping now be back later!

Pete, Since Don pointed out that an example was discovered at Monmouth, the odds grew less then that this was N.C. despite it being found there, and coupled with the similarity in design to the Pennsylvania's, lesser still. Then again, the N.C. served with the 10th Pa. at Valley Forge and in tough times buttons could have been scavanged, but play it safe. Better for you though if it turns out to be a Pennsylvania, as you button is no less rare, and it's got the added glory of not surrendering at Valley Forge!

Pete,

You are the BEST! That site is one heck of a piece of pie. I bet there is a GW there. Go Long Live the dream, Pete!

Kirk

Here is a piece that I've been zapping on and off the last couple of days that was with this stuff!See it in first pic. it was cruddy.Anyway I'm not sure looks like a little pocket knife in some ways then again maybe it's just a handle but a small one if it is and one I've not seen.

Very old pocket knife.  You see how the rivet holding the handles on is off set to allow the blade to go into the slot.

As small as it is I would suspect it is a pen knife.  That is a knife used to trim goose quill pens to shape as they wear down.

Very old pocket knife.  You see how the rivet holding the handles on is off set to allow the blade to go into the slot.

As small as it is I would suspect it is a pen knife.  That is a knife used to trim goose quill pens to shape as they wear down.

Thanks again Buddy I'm going to have to hire you you are smart as a whip 

Hey I'll work that site for free, no need to hire.

Hey I'll work that site for free, no need to hire.

You do realize this stuff is not no good for the ....................r

The big mystery on this button is still out there. Also the story above say's the the two brothers in charge was using the money for there own good. But also say's that the 10th did recieve more than the other nine.So you would think even if the 10th was a rag tag group but recieved more then the rest that they should of had button's if the rest did.  Don't make much since but that's war I guess.Just looks like some bottom line answers would be out there on our own country's history. I mean they kept up with other things less meaningful but not if the N.C. Reg.was issued button's.   I did find out that the one piece is a
 
  
 Cast Neck Stock Hasps, Ca. 1750-1790

These heavy cast brass adjustable hasps fastened the cravats or neck stocks of linen (or, more rarely, leather) that encircled Spanish soldiers' necks during the mid-to-late eighteenth century.  Secured to the ends of their neck stocks by the raised studs shown, these examples almost certainly (and uncomfortably) adorned the necks of enlisted men.  Officers' examples had articulated chapes (hinged hasp and tines/tongues) or were more delicately constructed.
 

Silver Neck Stock Hasp, Ca. 1760-1780

Recovered in Athens, Texas, this female portion of an officer's or gentleman's neck stock hasp was fashioned from sheet silver and engraved with decorative designs that have a distinctly Spanish Colonial/Mexican character. The cast silver fastening studs were peened into prepared holes in the upper, scalloped edge of the hasp section; two of these studs' reverse faces are engraved with the initials "C S".
  
Although I don't think it is spanish it is the same thing.If it is spanish then now it means that at this site there was a British navy button,a continental Reg.Button,and spanish too all in the same area?But it could be I guess as this button is called a fring pan type dating 1650-1700' not even talking about the danish 2 skilling found near by and the spoon mold 16th century.
I must say I'm about ready to hit this baby again!
Also the handle above dates to 1600's as well and was a surgical knife.
Recessed Buttons

Flat, "frying pan" shaped buttons with skirted edges both with and without protruding outer rims as shown at left, right, and bottom comprise other frequently encountered military button subtypes of the ca. 1650-1700 period.


http://www.artifacts.org/Mission.htm
http://www.artifacts.org/Bucklepage.htm

Call me crazy, but third photo from the bottom on the first set of photos you posted...the large button, is that a slight "GW" I see? !!!

Call me crazy, but third photo from the bottom on the first set of photos you posted...the large button, is that a slight "GW" I see? !!!

I'm still learning what I have. Have not checked it any further.But the back say's gilt on it.I need to get more into researching my finds better.Stay busy finding but not researching as much as I should.But I guess there will be time for that one day.