Is there a Long Range Locator capable of this?

Sadly, this is hypothetical...

I know 3 chests of gold are buried - somewhere within 300 acres...  at 8 feet deep.  There is no (or very little) iron buried with the cache.

How do I locate them?

This is the official re-opening of the TreasureNet Long Range Locator Forum.


PLEASE NOTE: As the administrator, creator and owner of this site, I HAVE SEEN PEOPLE GET RIPPED OFF (defrauded) by people selling so-called "long range locators" (devices, that supposedly, can find precious metals at a distance).  I HIGHLY recommend consulting a geophysicist ($100 in consulting fees could save you thousands, and you'll learn something!), before spending ONE DIME ON ANY "long range locator" .  With that, I open this forum to the discussion of said devices.  

Well according to cassbiz, it looks like the bionic 01 is capable of it, since he uses one. Of course he is a factory rep so.......
Here's the "device" - http://www.okmmetaldetectors.com/products/longrange/bionic01.php

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,280422.0.html

     I don't know if this works on land but it might be worth talking to these guys. Good luck,

Charlie

LRL? No, of course not.

Chests made of what? How big? Roughly how much gold each? Buried how long ago? Acreage is field, woods, level, rocky...?

I'm sure there is something.  I mean, if it's a chest of highly conductive metal, surrounded by dirt, heck yeah.  If there isn't there should be... and it wouldn't be hard to design.

I believe Kreskin is doing side jobs now.

I'm glad to see this discussion. I don't know if there are any LRL'S that work (I've never tried one), but I still think they could be made.

I have one and it works great.....I don't sell 'em just use one that is beyond belief! The guy that invented it is a genius, he use to help rockets get where they need to go, and is a great guy too.

If you have something you would like to find and have done all the research I am willing to travel....for a percentage of course. If you just have a legend and want me to check it out its the same deal only I'll need my expenses taken care of. We put it all in writting first, and yes I will sign a nondisclosure statement. I live near the Cincinnati area. 

You all have read about the guy (from Hollywood) who thinks he has a shipwreck found but everything is tied up in court? Well if he had known about my device and got hold of me he could have found out for sure before bothering people and getting run off the property!

Oh yea, for those negative guys out there...before you even start let me say I'll put up.......but it will cost you! ha ha

LRL? No, of course not.

Chests made of what? How big? Roughly how much gold each? Buried how long ago? Acreage is field, woods, level, rocky...?

The owner / administrator asked how he would locate these treasure chests with an LRL, i.e. is it capable (subject to the caveats that he outlined in red).

Why would you jump on your own bandwagon and ask irrelevant questions to the OP? Everyone knows your position. But the question, posted by an obviously extremely intelligent sceptic, didn't ask "Can anyone help me find some treasure?" Its an open question to LRL users, not raging demonisers. Why not just let the thread flow and see what happens? Or are you going to censor Mark too?

The owner / administrator asked how he would locate these treasure chests with an LRL, i.e. is it capable (subject to the caveats that he outlined in red).

Why would you jump on your own bandwagon and ask irrelevant questions to the OP? Everyone knows your position. But the question, posted by an obviously extremely intelligent sceptic, didn't ask "Can anyone help me find some treasure?" Its an open question to LRL users, not raging demonisers. Why not just let the thread flow and see what happens? Or are you going to censor Mark too?

The title Marc chose for the thread was, "Is there a Long Range Locator capable of this?"

My response to this questions was, "LRL? No, of course not." My response is based on my experience that LRLs simply don't work.

His post then asked, "How do I locate them?" Which sounds a whole lot like, "Can anyone help me find some treasure?"

Since the right approach depends very heavily on the exact situation, I asked some questions to help guide my (and others') recommendations. If you believe this to be a wrong approach, then by all means, let's hear your suggestions!

- Carl

Notice that I am not asking those questions because it doesn't matter when you have the right device.

Those are questions regular Metal detectors and GPR have to have answered....not needed for a real LRL. If the moderator actually has this treasure narrowed down (and the treasure is not a philosophical one) he needs to PM me.  It can be in plastic, glass, etc. doesn’t matter. The only negative is I cannot find paper money (at this time). But it’s a killer on gold and silver!

The title Marc chose for the thread was, "Is there a Long Range Locator capable of this?"

His post then asked, "How do I locate them?" Which sounds a whole lot like, "Can anyone help me find some treasure?"

But in the context of using an LRL. Perhaps it was an invite, perhaps an enquiring sceptical challenge. All good. But its in an LRL thread. That's not rocket science to figure that he intended (here anyway) "Can anyone WITH AN LRL help me find some treasure?" For a poster noted for painstaking detail, why miss the wood for the trees? Never let emotion get in the way of an enquiring mind.

Since the right approach depends very heavily on the exact situation, I asked some questions to help guide my (and others') recommendations. If you believe this to be a wrong approach, then by all means, let's hear your suggestions!

Your questions are good for expanding the subject, but this is all about using an LRL to find these.

Looks like there is interest from Curtis already. Let's just see how it goes? Just for once?

I'm delighted to see this thread and renewed section to the forum. I'm an adult, triple degreed and don't need anyone holding my hand online. Way to go Tnet.

Lets see..We have gold buried 8 feet deep somewhere on  300 acres.  That is a little smaller than a full section of land. I would ask the map dowsers on t/net to dowse it for me. That should cut the search area down to less than 50 acres. Most LRL’s with an operator who has took the time to learn his machine should be able to find the treasure in a couple of hours. Yes…Some LRL’s can find the Treasure…Art

Lets see..We have gold buried 8 feet deep somewhere on  300 acres.  That is a little smaller than a full section of land. I would ask the map dowsers on t/net to dowse it for me. That should cut the search area down to less than 50 acres. Most LRL’s with an operator who has took the time to learn his machine should be able to find the treasure in a couple of hours. Yes…Some LRL’s can find the Treasure…Art

Hi Art, and I would add this interesting test by David Villanueva to Marc's research http://www.truetreasure.info/freelrlreport.pdf Yes Marc, I think there are people on here that could help you locate that treasure.

does anyone have instructions on a f400 system that Ralph Schull put out a few years ago? using two modified metel detectors to trace a signal line to a target i have this set up but instructions are not very good.  Thanks Bildon

well. all i know is. if you cant spell artifacts, the thingamajig you made to find them probably doesnt work

Hey PAPPYGOL….i can locate. Copper, Brass, Bronze, most kinds of gemstones, Dinosaur Bones, porcelain, pottery and most anything else you can think of….If you know what its made of it can be located…Every thing on this earth both living and dead has  it’s on Frequency. If you know the frequency  you can locate it…Art

if i saw it with my own eyes. i would believe it. to believe someone can accuratley locate something buried 6 or 8 feet down in the ground from hundreds of yards away. is science fiction to me. also, if there was a machine able to do this, , and this i know this is true, whites, or garrett or fisher  would have one on the market today. as we all know. charles garrett is an einstein in his own time.

I am happy to see that Marc decided to open discussion again on this forum about Long Range locator's. What is a treasurenet forum with out LRL discussion. There are LRL equipment on the market that works when you take the time to learn how to use them. It takes more then one piece of LRL equipment to locate and retrieve a gold or silver cache. Thank You.
Bullet:Mich.

Marc, common sense will tell you that LRL's do not find Gold, precious metals, or anything else. They are merely a tool that serve as an aid in our search. LRL's and MFD have no intelligence of their own to find Treasure for any one, so why would you, or anyone, logically expect such a performance from a dumb, stupid, piece of equipment which has no intelligence of it's own 

They all require the intelligence, knowledge, and experience of a human operator. Any LRL, regardless of manufacture, or advertising hype,  will only be as good as the knowledge and experience of the person using them.

Very good Dell…..Hours of practice….Learning if the signal is real or is going to a ring or a ray…It is not a buy and get rich instrument…..Art

yep there it is the f400 system in the picture sure wished i knew the owner would like some instructions   bildon

Thanks Dell you are one of the few fine people out there and i enjoy your articles very much please keep on writing about these articles and i will watch for the email Thanks Bildon

Hey Dell, I have to say that you make a very good point that really refers to any and all pieces of equipment regardless of their nature or functionality.

An equipment operator only becomes more proficient with practice and experience.  Though a person knows how to drive a car, doesn't mean they can drive a race car at full speed through a corner without the necessary practice and experience.

There are so many out there with ultra biased opinions that without the operational knowledge of any equipment, how can any statements be regarded as true or false, they are just mere opinions.  I have seen some LRL's work and others not.  Without the proper testing, learning and practicing, how can anyone make truly factual statements.

Frank

SWR,

Honestly I haven't been around enough of them to say Yeah or Nay.  I just received one from the factory to test and I can say that personally at this point I am impressed.  As soon as I find something of value then at that point I will be really impressed. 

In a post from another user, finding treasure is not looking for a needle in a haystack, it is looking for a particular needle in a needle stack. 

I have found that no one piece of equipment is perfect for every application.  I use several, for the more instruments that give me a positive reading, the more likely I am to go and chase it.

Frank

I have found that no one piece of equipment is perfect for every application.  I use several, for the more instruments that give me a positive reading, the more likely I am to go and chase it.

Right on Frank….When I go out I always have a backup with me….It may be a walkie-talkie, cell phone, a calculator and a set of baited Dowsing rods…They all can be used in case you need them…Art

I was reading about the cell phone and the number 512   What is that about?

I was reading about the cell phone and the number  512    What is that about?

Hey cassbiz……Numbers 511to 514 came from Ranger Tell a lot of years ago. That’s just what they are..numbers.
One morning I was charging my wife’s cell phone and also doing some testing on calculators..When the phone was charged I put the numbers into it and the rods closed between it and the gold….A few days later I was at a Thanksgiving dinner and checked 5 more cell phones..

I then went out to the hills and set the cell phone on the ground, Took a !/4 oz nugget and walked up the road. I would set the nugget down and check the signal line….When the signal became weak I marked the spot and went back to the car…It was close to a ¼ mile to the place I had marked….

I have also tested it buried at 1 foot and 3 feet…Works darn good….Some one can see if they can use a LRL with this thing…The 512 number is not very good as it picks up the rings…Art

Ranger Tell :  Shouldn't be dating yourself.   

Like I said, don't know too much the LRL's but am open to all technologies. 

I have even listened to map dowsers, some can, some can't.  With that being said, anyplace is a good place to start.

Just an old man trying to pass my knowledge on to someone else…I have made my living since the early 80’s finding gold so I know  a little about finding it…Art

This is a great topic and I have enjoyed the posts!
I want to mention the post with the picture of the detector set up is very interesting for regular (conventional ) signal transmission. The device I have works differently and is new technology (patented) so you won't be seeing it in the name brand adds. I agree that the LRL market is a niche one. If you had invented this new thing would you let anyone else have it ...not me until I had already found enough that would give me everything I want. Call it greed; I am just saying I'm being practical. That is the reason I don't reveal the name of the device I use.
Not wanting to be disagreeable but the device I own will pinpoint the ELEMENT you have it set for, I do mean pinpoint as in right on. The distance (thru the air) I checked was ½ mile. I did find a match head sized gold nugget near Redding CA from 1/8 mile away. The depth is suppose to be good for at least 200 feet, I have confirmed it will work 10 feet thru solid concrete, plan to test it above a cave by putting a silver dollar in the cave and then standing above the thing which would be close to 100 feet. Will do it sometime soon.

How about size-mic echo charting?  (spelling) I bet you could get the same people that look for oil in the ground to do a sizemic survey, where they come out with 10 gauge shells and pulse the ground and listen with there big tire... looking for ground echos... they go pretty deep.

There.  Its' been done.

Seismic would work as long as you are right on top of the object or in its real close vicinity.  They primarily use for it is real deep imaging 30+ meters to find larger anomalies.  Smaller targets get lost in the chatter.

I want to again thank Marc for allowing this forum…I know his other try’s  at allowing this subject to be discussed (if you can describe it as a discussion ) have always ended in disaster.  This one seems to be headed the same way…There is a myth that all these manufactures have become rich selling these devices. I personal know 3 of these manufactures.  None of them are what I consider as being rich.
I seriously think that less than 5,000 of these units have been sold while the skeptics report thousands of the buyers  feel they have been scammed.  I can not confirm or deny this allegation…

The only thing that I can say for sure is they work for me..I have suffered many personal attacks on a daily basis…This is just the way things are done when you can Dowse or use a LRL. Until some known Scientist wants to spend millions of dollars to run a big test of this subject will always be the same..Art 

Art. Reliable references and sources have been posted in regards to scientific testing of these contraptions. The conclusions and results are always the same. Does not work better than random guessing.

Furthermore, reliable references and sources have been posted in regards to tens of thousands of dollars that have been scammed from the US Government, as well as foreign Governments still being scammed by these contraptions.

Gee SWR….A bomb detector that happens to look like a L….Two body detectors…Can these products by even remotely connected to using a LRL to find treasure?  Art

Well kind Sir...had you actually read the scientific documentation you requested, and was provided...you would have read the portion about how these gimmicks were used by treasure hunters BEFORE they crossed over to other applications, such as dowsing for explosives

Well…Your view of Scientific documentation is a lot different than my views…The explosives device is what failed the so called Scientific test. No test has ever been undertaken to prove if LRL’s as used for treasure hunting  work or not….Just pure fact with ….Art

However, laboratory held scientific tests have concluded that these gimmicks do not locate ANY metals. Period.
Your failure to accept scientific tests/results are understandable. Nobody likes to be on the losing team.

I would not expect a device that is designed to find bombs and human beings to find Metal…If you have a web site I can go to find where  a Scientific Test of a LRL designed to find Metal   has been studied please post it…If you can not post it I will assume you have no proof…Art

 

Marc, We have a reputable Geophysicist consultant, that will tell you flat out that MFD can't possibly work.

I can point you to countless scientists that will tell you that Ouija Boards don't work, yet, I have seen them work.  

I have one I'll sell you for $15000!  

I can point you to countless scientists that will tell you that Ouija Boards don't work, yet, I have seen them work.  

My comments on Ouija...

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index....c,298094.msg2153579.html#msg2153579
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index....c,298094.msg2154691.html#msg2154691

[FIRMLY!]

I don't care what anyone says about the board.  Really.  It doesn't work - IT DOESN'T!!!!!  it's a game....  IT IS!!!!!  OK!    I recommend people NOT use it.

If I hadn't seen what I HAVE seen, I would be FIRMLY in the non-believers (skeptics) camp!!!!!!   FIRMLY!  

Of course, here is my story.....

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,28494.0.html

... and I have spent 30+ years TRYING to rationalize it away.  

Soon, I will complete the discovery - um, I mean recovery process.  

12 feet to the floor....  12 feet...  of course, we had NO way of knowing that.  

Maybe the ideomotor effect can tap into the subconscious and possibly psychic - and possibly genetic memory of the brain.  How can orphaned elephants find their way to the same water their ancestors survived on?  

Hey Marc….All these experts have not experienced the things that we have..I don’t need to know exactly how something works..If it  finds treasure I am going to use it…As long as I don’t hurt some one with my tools I am the only one I have to prove any thing to…Art

[FIRMLY!]

I don't care what anyone says about the board.  Really.  It doesn't work - IT DOESN'T!!!!!  it's a game....  IT IS!!!!!  OK!    I recommend people NOT use it.

If I hadn't seen what I HAVE seen, I would be FIRMLY in the non-believers (skeptics) camp!!!!!!   FIRMLY!  

Of course, here is my story.....

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,28494.0.html

... and I have spent 30+ years TRYING to rationalize it away.
Soon, I will complete the discovery - um, I mean recovery process.  

12 feet to the floor....  12 feet...  of course, we had NO way of knowing that.  

Maybe the ideomotor effect can tap into the subconscious and possibly psychic - and possibly genetic memory of the brain.  How can orphaned elephants find their way to the same water their ancestors survived on?  

Marc, first of all  I want you to know that what you have experienced it's absolutely true.
This subject is highly complex,  long and I deal with it for decades.

Am I an authority to speak about it? Honestly, I am. I know what I am talking about.
I will not go deep into it, simply because this is not the right place to discuss it. This is a treasure hunting forum.
If you wish I can give you all information you need about this phenomena trough PM.

As a start, I will only tell you that an ouija board is one of the many ways used for entity comunications. Ouija board, moving glasses, pendulums, and others. It's not a game. Luck on you that the right entity gave you the right information. There are many false info from entities who only wants to have fun at people's expenses.
I am not kidding. This is serious.

As an initial research material for you to look on from the tons available, I cite the documented case of the Fox sisters in Hydesville in 1800's. You will probably only find disclaimer sources that it did not happen as they tell, that they cheated, etc. Discard that as these were written by the matherialistic involved who did not want the case to prosper. Focus on the similarity with your case.
Then try to get a scientific book called The Spirits' Book by Allan Kardek. This book is originally french written in 1857. Don't know how easy it will be to find it in US, but I know there's a version in english. I already saw it.

I will not make any coment about it here.
As you experienced this yourself, you will probably not be understood by the ones who did not experience it.
If you wish PM me. I will gladly discuss this with you.

Best regards.
PS. Found it easy in the net. Here:
http://www.espirito.org.br/portal/download/pdf/en/the-spirits-book.pdf

Howdy Folks!
I have been reading all the posts in this thread and am a bit startled at some of
the debate. We certainly can examine a topic without bombasity and discord, I
hope anyhow.

Since I haven't got a dog in this fight, but am interested in any technology that
might benefit me in my quest to improve my personal fortunes, I stumbled into
this thread wondering what the story on LRLs might actually be. I've heard those
who are enthusiastic about these devices, and I've heard from folks on the other
side of the issue. What I haven't seen is any documentation from either side.
Granted, I just got interested in this particular line of discussion, and while such
documentation may have appeared on this forum or another before, I haven't
seen any of it.

My particular perspective is that of a person curious and without a specific point
of view. I am open to hearing legitimate opinions from both the skeptics and the
believers. While I am not precisely "in the market" for one of these devices, I am
open to the concept that there may be validity to claims they are efficacious. I am
equally open to the concept that such devices are not effective. I don't have any
bais one way or another.

I'd be curious to experiment with such devices and see what my own experience
might be. However, I run on a pretty slim budget and don't have any cash to
dispose of without something more inspiring than contention between different
factions in a discussion such as this.

As for Ouija boards, I've read Marc's account. It isn't surprising to me in the least.
They do open portals to entities from realms beyond our own physical plane. That
being said, I tend to regard them as perilous devices in much the same way as I
regard leaving my front door unlocked at night as unwise. Anything (or anybody)
can come through that portal and behave badly.

But since the whole point of this thread seems to be whether LRL devices actually
perform in a satisfactory manner to assist in treasure hunting, well, I'm open to
documentation from both sides, without prejudice to either. I have no bias one
way or the other. When I was young, the discriminating detector did not yet exist.
It would have seemed logical for folks to suggest that it ain't possible to discriminate
between various metals as we now take for granted. Pulse detectors are even more
recent, and achieve greater depth that only about 20 years ago would have been
unbelievable. I can imagine discussion of those technologies running along similar
lines as we see for the LRL machines. As noted by Hamlet; "There are more things
on heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy Horatio!"

So, rather than making this post much longer than it already is, I'd love to see what
documentation either side has to share. Whether it be websites, print articles or any
other medium, I'm open to seeing what evidence exists on either end of the debate.
Please feel free, on either side of the issue, to contact me via email or PM through
this forum.

Until I know more, I simply remain curious. And I hope this thread continues without
venom on either side so we can evaluate information based on merit rather than
sentiment or opinion.

Thank you for reading all this,
Blessings,
M-Taliesin

So, rather than making this post much longer than it already is, I'd love to see what
documentation either side has to share. Whether it be websites, print articles or any
other medium, I'm open to seeing what evidence exists on either end of the debate.
Please feel free, on either side of the issue, to contact me via email or PM through
this forum.

Huh?? Documentation by opponents have been shared in practically every thread in this sub-forum. Several threads have even been about documentation how these gimmicks are manufactured.    

Howdy!
I didn't read practially every thread in this forum. I read this one in particular.
Documentation about how gimmicks, as you call them, are made isn't relevant.
I am interested in documentation on how they perform. Can anybody document
a find made with such device. Or, by contrast, why they aren't able to find anything.

I am not so interested as to read every thread on the forum dealing with this particular
modality. Just a curious onlooker who is open to considering both points of view.
If that point of view can't be made in a consice, yet compelling way right here, then
it really isn't an investment in time to go looking for source material on my own.

Noted that your reply didn't offer a single reference to another thread where such
questions are addressed. That leaves me wondering why not? It is routine to provide
links to specific threads or documentation when replying to a simple question and
would require much less typing simply to provide them in response to a question.

Again, I ain't got no dog in this fight either way and don't have any emotional
involvement in this discussion. Just a curiosity that isn't so consuming that I'm going
to read every thread on the forum in order to satisfy.

If these things work, show me.
If they don't, show me.
Until that happens, I guess I'll just chalk down what I've seen in this thread as
opinion and hearsay without evidence. Until then, I ain't launching an investigation,
and I ain't buying the argument from either side. All I'm asking is for folks to show
their hand.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,289835.0.html

If that point of view can't be made in a consice, yet compelling way right here, then
it really isn't an investment in time to go looking for source material on my own.

Please see my PM.   

If these things work, show me.
If they don't, show me.
Until that happens, I guess I'll just chalk down what I've seen in this thread as
opinion and hearsay without evidence. Until then, I ain't launching an investigation,
and I ain't buying the argument from either side. All I'm asking is for folks to show
their hand.

Hi M-T,

There's heaping gobs of show-me on my personal web site, http://www.geotech1.com. Try these links:

LRL Main page
LRL General Info (esp. read the Dowsing/LRL Q&A)
LRL Technical Reports - Look inside lots of LRLs

- Carl

If these things work, show me.
If they don't, show me.
Until that happens, I guess I'll just chalk down what I've seen in this thread as
opinion and hearsay without evidence. Until then, I ain't launching an investigation,
and I ain't buying the argument from either side. All I'm asking is for folks to show
their hand.

Hi M-T,

There's heaping gobs of show-me on my personal web site, http://www.geotech1.com. Try these links:

LRL Main page
LRL General Info (esp. read the Dowsing/LRL Q&A)
LRL Technical Reports - Look inside lots of LRLs

- Carl

Howdy Carl!
Thank you very much. I surely appreciate your providing specific information for me
to consider and view. I'll check it out when I have a bit of time. Morning struck early
today around here, but with a three day weekend coming along (with snow in the
forecast) guess I'll have ample opportunity to catch up on reading.

Much obliged, Carl, and thanks for the information.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

If that point of view can't be made in a consice, yet compelling way right here, then
it really isn't an investment in time to go looking for source material on my own.

Please see my PM.   

Howdy Ted!
Much appreciate your information. I didn't get a chance to view it last night, but
have three days coming along with snow in the forecast, so should have a chance
to check it out and consider the information with an open mind.

Nice of you to take the time to PM me with that, and I really do appreciate it.
Thanks again!

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

All I'm asking is for folks to show their hand.

Okey dokey...you've already got your mind up, I reckon. If you don't want to read the posts in this forum, then I'll just move along. Nothing to see here. 

Howdy SWR!
Wow, but you folded quick enough. Works for me. Ya gotta know when to hold 'em,
know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, etc, etc.

I haven't "already got your mind up", whatever on earth that's supposed to mean,
(and assume it was intended to be a slight) but am merely curious. I don't feel any
compulsion to reinvent the entire wheel, but just get to the crux of the thing without
putting in a bunch of time I ain't got.

But that's an okey dokey with me, if you ain't holding anything. Others have stepped
up and offered more than mere opinion, so I don't much mind you came up dry.
It's okay with me.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

If these things work, show me.
If they don't, show me.

Taliesin,
Nobody needs to show you anything.
As Carl gave you the link to his site, do what I did.
I built some of the devices featured in his site, he claims not working. The ones I chose to build worked. Some better than others. But they worked. So my conclusion is that there's a high possibility that all of them work.
You'll see that there's nothing scientific in the reports, only biased opinions to support own beliefs.

So experiment yourself and do not 'import' claims from others, something that occurs very often among skeptics here.

Taliesin,
Nobody needs to show you anything.
As Carl gave you the link to his site, do what I did.
I built some of the devices featured in his site, he claims not working. The ones I chose to build worked. Some better than others. But they worked. So my conclusion is that there's a high possibility that all of them work.
You'll see that there's nothing scientific in the reports, only biased opinions to support own beliefs.

So experiment yourself and do not 'import' claims from others, something that occurs very often among skeptics here.

Well, M-Taliesin, isn't that almost exactly what I told you to do.

Of course it goes without saying there are some LRL salesmen (look ^^^^ up to see one) here too. They have other interests and agendas, other than just sharing info with you, so it is in your best interests to evaluate what they are pushing rather closely, especially before you part with any of your ready cash.

If all you are looking for is a fair evaluation of dowsing and LRL/MFD, done from your own personal angle, than I already gave you everything you'll need to conduct your investigation.

Good luck...
Ted  

Hey M-Taliesin….I own three of the devices that he has on his web site…I have also used 4 others that he has tested. That is seven good devise’s that  the experts say that will do nothing… I have told these guys over and over if you try to Dowse with a LRL you WILL fail…Art

Try with TREASURE NAVIGATOR (LONG RANGE LOCATOR)

Try with TREASURE NAVIGATOR (LONG RANGE LOCATOR)

Is this what you use?

If you are curious, then find a dealer or builder that has a money back guarantee for a certain time period, that way you can eperiment without it costing you an arm and a leg. This is what I did many years ago. What I found out is that not everyone can use one effectively. I had a 30  day money back guarantee, so I tested it everywhere I could, under all kinds of circumstances, until I felt confortably sure I could use it to find what I was searching for. If it had not worked, all I would have had to pay was a 10% restocking fee. A small price to pay for using one for 30 days, and gaining the satisfaction of knowing for sure whether it would work or not. You can ask 100 people and get 100 different answers from everything from metal detectors to digging tools. Everyone has an opinion, as do I, but that doesn't mean what I use will satisfy what you want. Sometimes you just have to take the plunge to find out for yourself. The one i bought was built by a science professor in his spare time, as a hobby. He never intended to get rich off these units, just to help fill a niche in demand for these units. He didn't even build most of the units, but had them made for him and he just assembled them and added his own handmade parts to them to enhance their sensitivity to certain metals. They only pickup gold and silver. Good Luck with you endeavor to find the truth.  rockhound

If you are curious, then find a dealer or builder that has a money back guarantee for a certain time period, that way you can eperiment without it costing you an arm and a leg. This is what I did many years ago. What I found out is that not everyone can use one effectively. I had a 30  day money back guarantee, so I tested it everywhere I could, under all kinds of circumstances, until I felt confortably sure I could use it to find what I was searching for. If it had not worked, all I would have had to pay was a 10% restocking fee. A small price to pay for using one for 30 days, and gaining the satisfaction of knowing for sure whether it would work or not. You can ask 100 people and get 100 different answers from everything from metal detectors to digging tools. Everyone has an opinion, as do I, but that doesn't mean what I use will satisfy what you want. Sometimes you just have to take the plunge to find out for yourself. The one i bought was built by a science professor in his spare time, as a hobby. He never intended to get rich off these units, just to help fill a niche in demand for these units. He didn't even build most of the units, but had them made for him and he just assembled them and added his own handmade parts to them to enhance their sensitivity to certain metals. They only pickup gold and silver. Good Luck with you endeavor to find the truth.  rockhound

Some LRL makers may offer this, but I've seen many with a 5 to 7 day refund period, or no refund period at all.

Even at the 10% "restocking fee" you would be getting gouged for an empty plastic box   

Absolutely you are.  The "restocking fee" is ALWAYS geared so the LRL dealer breaks even on what he has in the gimmick.  Then, he can turn around and sell it to the next "gullible" and clear 100% profit.

The "restocking fee" AND the "shipping and handling fee" is as much a gimmick as the do-nothing device itself.

Even at the 10% "restocking fee" you would be getting gouged for an empty plastic box   

Absolutely you are.  The "restocking fee" is ALWAYS geared so the LRL dealer breaks even on what he has in the gimmick.  Then, he can turn around and sell it to the next "gullible" and clear 100% profit.

The "restocking fee" AND the "shipping and handling fee" is as much a gimmick as the do-nothing device itself.

Could you imagine the shock of ordering an amazing target discriminator, only to find out it is a short piece of PVC pipe with a few fittings on it? Once you settle down from kicking yourself in the seat of the britches, you return it for a refund...minus shipping. After paying shipping both ways...you just spent $14 for 3 inches of PVC pipe that you no longer own   

Yes, that would be a REAL wake-up call.    And, let's hope your wife doesn't find out how you spent that 14 bucks. 

Even at the 10% "restocking fee" you would be getting gouged for an empty plastic box   

Absolutely you are.  The "restocking fee" is ALWAYS geared so the LRL dealer breaks even on what he has in the gimmick.  Then, he can turn around and sell it to the next "gullible" and clear 100% profit.

The "restocking fee" AND the "shipping and handling fee" is as much a gimmick as the do-nothing device itself.

Is your experience in charging this fee, or paying it?

Yes, that would be a REAL wake-up call.    And, let's hope your wife doesn't find out how you spent that 14 bucks. 

When you get better at leading your own household, come back and talk to the menfolk.

Almost all detector dealers charge a 10% restocking fee if merchandise is returned. It doesn't matter whether it is a metal detector,accessories or other equipment. This is standard practice among detector dealers. If you exchange for another model, they may wave the 10% restocking fee. Anyway, it is not a bad deal, if you are a newby trying to find a machine that you are comfortable with, before shelling out a grand or more on a machine that you either don't understand or can't use. It is to me, the lesser of the two investments. In most cases, the dealer realizes this, and will wave the restocking fee in order to sell a more expensive machine. In 5 or 7 days, anyone should have a reasonable idea whether a machine, no matter what type, is satisfactory. Most will give you 30 days to evaluate a detector or LRL. Ask your appliance, computer, automobile or other manufacturer to do this, ha ha. You will not even get a 5 or 7 day period to evauate your purchase. You may get a predetermined amount of time to return it, but I doubt you will get off scott free. I don't know how many LRl's or metal detectors you have bought, and I don't care too, but I wouold bet you have made many bad decisions along the way, which would have saved you a bunch of money, if you had just paid the restocking fee. I myself, have not had to pay the restocking fee, but I would have eagerly, had I made a bad choice in buying a detector or LRL. Good Luck. rockhound

Most LRL dealers only have a seven day trial period. Is that ample time to see if the gimmick can actually find a large buried treasure? No, of course not. The average Joe works during the week, so now the free trial is just two days. Two days to find what some have spent a lifetime doing. Holy crap. The restocking fee varies, but my closest LRL manufacturer/dealer charges 20%. So....if you do manage to return your $1,800 gimmick within the seven day trial period, you are going to shell out  $360 for that two day experience.

Just more excuse from people with a flawed Belief System….Art

I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't know why I even get involved in these arguments to begin with. I don't sell or endorse(get a royalty) fom any manufacturers, so I should care less how you spend your money or on what. All I was trying to do was to relay my experiences with LRL's. Having said that, I will bow out of these arguments,as I have more important things to do than argue about whether a specifc metal detector or LRL,dowsing instrument or whatever works. I don't have anything to prove so I will say to each his own. Good Luck and happy hunting, with whatever works for you.  rockhound

I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't know why I even get involved in these arguments to begin with. I don't sell or endorse(get a royalty) fom any manufacturers, so I should care less how you spend your money or on what. All I was trying to do was to relay my experiences with LRL's. Having said that, I will bow out of these arguments,as I have more important things to do than argue about whether a specifc metal detector or LRL,dowsing instrument or whatever works. I don't have anything to prove so I will say to each his own. Good Luck and happy hunting, with whatever works for you.  Rockhound

I happen to agree with you….I will use any and all tools to find treasure. It’s my money and I am the one that makes the decisions. Good luck and happy hunting to you…Art

[your]

I am the only Frequency Discrimination LRL manufacturer on this forum and I don't know squat about electronics. I hire an EE for electronic advice, and to build the circuits for me. A member of SWR's own profession.

What about the junk LRL dealers?  Aren't they members of your own profession?

I am the only Frequency Discrimination LRL manufacturer on this forum and I don't know squat about electronics. I hire an EE for electronic advice, and to build the circuits for me. A member of SWR's own profession.

 Dell

You know Dell, you are always trying to draw a line in the sand between what you are doing as an LRL seller and the rest of the LRL dealer/sellers. I suppose you do that so you can somehow feel like you are disconnected from any responsibility for what your EE puts in your do-nothing box, as opposed to what the EE that works for Bob Fitz' puts in his contraptions.

Then, in this posting you say you don't know squat about electronics (which of course is a very true statement), so you hire an EE to build the stuff you are selling.  I fail to see how that is any different from any of the other LRL dealer/mfgr/sellers.

If you don't know anything about electronics, how do you know what the little 3" length of PVC is doing when you place something in it and tell the customer that they can locate similar materials or objects.  Maybe there's no electronics involved, and it's just voodoo or magic.  Which is it? a) voodoo, b) magic, c) electronics or d) it's a gimmick that has nothing to do with anything.

Incidentally, did you employ an EE or your neighborhood plumber when you developed the length of PVC pipe?

 

BTW, if you'd really like to delineate yourself from the rest of the LRL mfgr/dealer/sellers, why don't you brag on the fact that, among all of them, you are the only one that comes on a public forum to plug your wares.  That's fine if Tnet doesn't care if you do that, but then you should expect to answer fair questions put to you; and not get all bent out of shape and resort to your childish name-calling routine.    

Dell has spewed; "bitter, vengeful, vindictive, or prejudice", "the Skeptics from mocking, ranting, and calling foul", "nonsensical mockery, bashing, and argument".... etc. etc.  I could go on, but there is a limit to how long a single posting can be.

Pure Panic…Their days of name calling is over

[your]

Af, what to heck are you ranting about now. I have no idea what you are talking about.

For 35 years my profession has been Marine salvage, and Treasure hunting. Before that my profession was  animal trainer, and producer of Aquatic shows.

Where do you think you are going with stupid questioning?    Dell

Stupid questioning, eh??

Your words - I am the only Frequency Discrimination LRL manufacturer on this forum and I don't know squat about electronics. I hire an EE for electronic advice, and to build the circuits for me. A member of SWR's own profession.  Here, you are drawing a link between SWR and the people that built your machines.  Why did you feel the need to point this out?   Knowing your history here, you wanted to create this similarity as a way of saying that SWR should know exactly what's going on with your devices.

My comment - "What about the junk LRL dealers?  Aren't they members of your own profession?"  By writing this, I was commenting on the fact that, if you believe SWR is the type of EE that would build one of your devices and accept payment for this, then surely you must believe you belong in the same group of salespeople that you've talked badly about in the past.

It's named "Calling a Spade a Spade" or, if you prefer, "The Pot Calling the Kettle Black."  If you want to define SWR by his profession, then it's only fair that we do the same with you....

Fine. My profession has been stated and restated hundreds of times. I have been a Professional Treasure hunter/ Salvor, for the past 35 years.

Now, get a life of your own that doesn't involve me.    Dell

So you don't claim your business as an LRL/MFD salesman??

Even at the 10% "restocking fee" you would be getting gouged for an empty plastic box   

Absolutely you are.  The "restocking fee" is ALWAYS geared so the LRL dealer breaks even on what he has in the gimmick.  Then, he can turn around and sell it to the next "gullible" and clear 100% profit.

The "restocking fee" AND the "shipping and handling fee" is as much a gimmick as the do-nothing device itself.

Is your experience in charging this fee, or paying it?

Yes, that would be a REAL wake-up call.    And, let's hope your wife doesn't find out how you spent that 14 bucks. 

When you get better at leading your own household, come back and talk to the menfolk.

Are we afraid to answer?

Even at the 10% "restocking fee" you would be getting gouged for an empty plastic box   

Absolutely you are.  The "restocking fee" is ALWAYS geared so the LRL dealer breaks even on what he has in the gimmick.  Then, he can turn around and sell it to the next "gullible" and clear 100% profit.

The "restocking fee" AND the "shipping and handling fee" is as much a gimmick as the do-nothing device itself.

Is your experience in charging this fee, or paying it?

Yes, that would be a REAL wake-up call.    And, let's hope your wife doesn't find out how you spent that 14 bucks. 

When you get better at leading your own household, come back and talk to the menfolk.

Are we afraid to answer?

 

Fine. My profession has been stated and restated hundreds of times. I have been a Professional Treasure hunter/ Salvor, for the past 35 years.

Now, get a life of your own that doesn't involve me.    Dell

So you don't claim your business as an LRL/MFD salesman??

Are we afraid to answer??

Fine. My profession has been stated and restated hundreds of times. I have been a Professional Treasure hunter/ Salvor, for the past 35 years.

Now, get a life of your own that doesn't involve me.    Dell

So you don't claim your business as an LRL/MFD salesman??

Are we afraid to answer??

af, it seems to do no good asking that question of those who are afraid.

Hey Dell…At this stage of developments on this board they have nothing to talk about except for their Scam Rumors. Every one of their other theories  or their so called Logical comments have been proven to be False. They do not have a leg to stand on. Yet they seem to keep on spewing their vile thoughts to every one who dares to post any thing here. I am having fun watching how their whole plan has fell apart. I even think that they are having an eternal fight about just who should be their leader. .Art

Hey Dell…At this stage of developments on this board they have nothing to talk about except for their Scam Rumors. Every one of their other theories  or their so called Logical comments have been proven to be False. They do not have a leg to stand on. Yet they seem to keep on spewing their vile thoughts to every one who dares to post any thing here. I am having fun watching how their whole plan has fell apart. I even think that they are having an eternal fight about just who should be their leader. .Art

Every one of their other theories  or their so called Logical comments have been proven to be False.  You've still never shown me even a single instance of this, Art.  Where are they??

Hey Dell…At this stage of developments on this board they have nothing to talk about except for their Scam Rumors. Every one of their other theories  or their so called Logical comments have been proven to be False. They do not have a leg to stand on. Yet they seem to keep on spewing their vile thoughts to every one who dares to post any thing here. I am having fun watching how their whole plan has fell apart. I even think that they are having an eternal fight about just who should be their leader. .Art

After being here and also in the 'other' forum talking about LRLs for years and even providing scientific evidence on why many of them work and under what basis, I can see that only two options are left to explain why skeptics still hang around trying to fight the LRLers back.

Either they are paid by conventional MD orgs in an attempt to stop spreading the word that LRLs do work, risking ruining their business (which is silly as technology, truth and knowledge sharing can't be stoped) or... they are just masochists who even after witnessing personal experiences of many people having sucess with them, just rather look the other way like autists who despite being told about the scientific evidences behind it, choose to use taps in their eyes.

Humm.. maybe another possibility?

Hey Dell…At this stage of developments on this board they have nothing to talk about except for their Scam Rumors. Every one of their other theories  or their so called Logical comments have been proven to be False. They do not have a leg to stand on. Yet they seem to keep on spewing their vile thoughts to every one who dares to post any thing here. I am having fun watching how their whole plan has fell apart. I even think that they are having an eternal fight about just who should be their leader. .Art

After being here and also in the 'other' forum talking about LRLs for years and even providing scientific evidence on why many of them work and under what basis, I can see that only two options are left to explain why skeptics still hang around trying to fight the LRLers back.

Either they are paid by conventional MD orgs in an attempt to stop spreading the word that LRLs do work, risking ruining their business (which is silly as technology, truth and knowledge sharing can't be stoped) or... they are just masochists who even after witnessing personal experiences of many people having sucess with them, just rather look the other way like autists who despite being told about the scientific evidences behind it, choose to use taps in their eyes.

Humm.. maybe another possibility?

Again, I'll ask you, where is the proof that the skeptics here are paid by metal detector companies?  I've ask this of you before, but you seemingly ignored it.....

Hey Dell…At this stage of developments on this board they have nothing to talk about except for their Scam Rumors. Every one of their other theories  or their so called Logical comments have been proven to be False. They do not have a leg to stand on. Yet they seem to keep on spewing their vile thoughts to every one who dares to post any thing here. I am having fun watching how their whole plan has fell apart. I even think that they are having an eternal fight about just who should be their leader. .Art

After being here and also in the 'other' forum talking about LRLs for years and even providing scientific evidence on why many of them work and under what basis, I can see that only two options are left to explain why skeptics still hang around trying to fight the LRLers back.

Either they are paid by conventional MD orgs in an attempt to stop spreading the word that LRLs do work, risking ruining their business (which is silly as technology, truth and knowledge sharing can't be stoped) or... they are just masochists who even after witnessing personal experiences of many people having sucess with them, just rather look the other way like autists who despite being told about the scientific evidences behind it, choose to use taps in their eyes.

Humm.. maybe another possibility?

Again, I'll ask you, where is the proof that the skeptics here are paid by metal detector companies?  I've ask this of you before, but you seemingly ignored it.....

I have no proof. It's just an assumption as I said. But as Dell said above, Carl finally got his dream job working at some MD corp after years of attacks against LRLs. Concidence?

Either way, any attempt to supress or twist LRL subjects will not work. It's like trying to hold a Scania Truck move with your own hands. Progress and technology just can't be stoped. I predict that maybe in ten years MD corps will be building these toys only for kids in the beach. With the present concept they will not pass the 10 inches depth for a coin. Or... they will build a 10 feet diameter coil so the whole family join TH together...
Regards.

Again, I'll ask you, where is the proof that the skeptics here are paid by metal detector companies?  I've ask this of you before, but you seemingly ignored it.....

OK AF…..I would like to know why you people have been bothering us for the past 10 years that I have been on T-Net?  It is not logical the humans would bother to make up so many illogical facts to post on a web site. All 4 of you (may be only 3 as I am still not sure of one of them) spew the same  party line. You all point us to one web site as proof of what you say.
We in turn have posted real facts and the web sites where they can be found and proved that every one of you post are just plain old false hoods.
I started a threads that would help people who are thinking about buying a LRL or MFD. http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,285498.0.html    Any one can read that thread and see exactly what you are trying to do.
I also started a thread called For Those That Have Been Scammed….http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,289950.300.html   and you guys have tried to make it your personal play grounds.
All this time you are trying to tell every one that all you want to do protect them from the bad people who YOU CLAIM are out to scam them…
The posts on those two web pages prove that you intent is not to protect T-Net members. You are only here to stop the flow of information to T-Net members. There can be no other explanation…Art

Progress and technology just can't be stoped(sic).

What a laugh. 

To see progress in a technology, first there would have to be a technology to progress.

Currently, Hung, your wish science and pseudoscientific baloney shows no sign of being related to a real technology, hence there can be no progress.

Give it up, Hung. You have lost the battle, and have yourself been debunkered. <-- Your bogus term not mine...

I doubt if you will find any proof, but I can see where it may look suspicious to some when Carl, is on the payroll of a major metal detector company, and bragging on the internet about his showing an LRL he received to other employees in his office and laughing about it.  Dell

Great!  So, as the believer's mindset goes, if you can't provide proof, then it must not exist, right?

Same goes for you, hung.

I swear, you guys and your conspiracy theories.  There are, what 2? 3? 4? admitted LRL manufacturers on this board, yet you see no irony at all in ignoring this, and imagine that the skeptics are getting paid by metal detector companies to post here?

Rest assured, gentlemen, the metal detector companies aren't worried a bit about being overtaken in the market by your little toys....

I know of one monster that will get to them pretty quicly an put them on the surface

I would like to ask all these so called expert treasure hunters a question.
Why does a person buy a Metal Detector? Is it not because he wants to locate unknown objects.
Why does him or her not use their Knowledge, intuition and guessing  to find treasure

nothing to do with the real rational sciences and everything to do with one's imagination, the unconscious mind, and the natural desire and want for a plausible explanation that satisfies the ego of the operator
obtained from Chance Guessing.
that research and intuition have a lot to do with your finds,
an illusion, brought on by the compelling nature of the ideomotor effect.

I wonder why these facts do not apply to using a metal Detector. After all many people have told use that they use a Metal Detector the same as Dowsing rods…Art

Why does him or her not use their Knowledge, intrusion and guessing  to find treasure

Yeah.... c'mon treasure hunters.  Start using intrusion. I'll bet you could find a whole bunch more stuff.

Aaaaaa yuppers.... sixx munths ago I culd not even spel tresyour huntter. Now I r one. (butt I steel kan't spel it)

 

Why does him or her not use their Knowledge, intrusion and guessing  to find treasure

Yeah.... c'mon treasure hunters.  Start using intrusion. I'll bet you could find a whole bunch more stuff.

Aaaaaa yuppers.... sixx munths ago I culd not even spel tresyour huntter. Now I r one. (butt I steel kan't spel it)

 

LOL!!   

A part time business,Yes! a profession, No!  Dell

Errrrrr.... aaaa... if selling 3" lengths of PVC pipe for $75 (plus shipping) is strictly a part-time business, what is the other full-time profession that you are involved in?

(Besides hanging around here on a daily basis injecting your brand of postings.)

Why does him or her not use their Knowledge, intrusion and guessing  to find treasure

Yeah.... c'mon treasure hunters.  Start using intrusion. I'll bet you could find a whole bunch more stuff.

Aaaaaa yuppers.... sixx munths ago I culd not even spel tresyour huntter. Now I r one. (butt I steel kan't spel it)

 

Owww, now my stomach muscles hurt.    <insert cartoon of guy doubling over laughing>

I would like to ask all these so called expert treasure hunters a question.
Why does a person buy a Metal Detector? Is it not because he wants to locate unknown objects.
Why does him or her not use their Knowledge, intrusion and guessing  to find treasure

nothing to do with the real rational sciences and everything to do with one's imagination, the unconscious mind, and the natural desire and want for a plausible explanation that satisfies the ego of the operator
obtained from Chance Guessing.
that research and intuition have a lot to do with your finds,
an illusion, brought on by the compelling nature of the ideomotor effect.

I wonder why these facts do not apply to using a metal Detector. After all many people have told use that they use a Metal Detector the same as Dowsing rods…Art

FACT 1
1984. USA
At Garret Metal Detectors backyard, Alonso is demonstrating to Charles Garret the prototype of what would become later,  Mineoro's DCH85 Pistol Detector. Suddenly Alonso got a signal from several and several feet away. He pinpointed the location and marked the spot with an X. Garret imediately told someone to pick his best toy at the time to check it. The MD remained silent. They started to dIg anyway. About a couple of feet deep later, Garret's toy started to emit a very  weak beep. Finally Alonso dug a gold pocket watch and handled him the 'gem'. Garret went nuts... Acting like a true child, he started to run in circles yelling and showing everybody he would pass by what was found.
FACT 2
2006. Paraguay
Inside an abandoned mine, Alonso has the FG80 in hands and about to be used.
To prove how much deeper the Mineoro could go in comparison (trully unfair) with a conventional MD, they also brought the best detector they could find. Don't know the brand, but trully, it simply does not matter. The device specifically built for gold nuggets  with the coil the size of a giant frying pan is waiting his turn to be used. Alonso turns the FG80 on and starts to scan the place from a distance. Then he gets a beep, and after tracking down the source he determines the exact spot. With the aid of the center and deep accessory, he determines the depth of being about 5 feet.
He turns the FG off. Then comes the MD operator and turns the beast on. Not a single beep. Then they start to dig. When the hole reaches about 3 feet, the MD still is silent. One foot more and finally the beast starts to emit a very weak beep. When 5 feet is reached a real small gold nugget is found.

************
Today I and my team utilize electronic devices we have built to reach amazing distances.
Today many people around the world also already utilize LRLs they also have built.
Today, almost a century later, conventional MDs still utilize the same old fashioned concept to detect metals and still have trouble to pass the 10 inch limit. Yet, they make several thousand of dollars selling these toys to people, making them believe they are now treasure hunters...

What a scam...

Dell Winders -

Some people say the "proof is in the pudding," and not in the electronics nor in blind tests.  If so, about how many LRLs would you estimate you have sold to satisfied customers?  And by "satisfied," I mean customers who have not complained nor asked for a refund.  Thanks.

- Tommy

Probably 50-60 in the past 10 years. Some are repeat customers.  Most are "word of mouth"      Dell

That sounds good, but I suppose I should have asked "what percentage" for the numbers to be in a meaningful context.

...and bragging on the internet about his showing an LRL he received to other employees in his office and laughing about it.

Clarification: I was not the one laughing. A Good Question to ponder is, why would a bunch of EE's simply look inside an Electroscope, and bust out laughing?

Sadly, no, I don't get paid to investigate or debunk LRLs. All on my time, and my money. Just paid another $1000 for a super-rare LRL that I've been looking for for over 10 years.

And folks will notice that I don't post here very often; when I do, it's to address very specific points, and then I'm off again. Don't have time for the never-ending bashfest. I provide evidence, I provide help to folks who really want to learn, I provide a challenge to LRL manufacturers (again soon); folks can take 'em or leave 'em.

I guess if you want to get an answer from you make belief experts you have to keep after you as they are real good at Ducking and Dodging…
    Re: Is there a Long Range Locator capable of this?
Reply To This Topic #114 Posted Yesterday at 02:26:58 PM     Quote  Modify  Remove

I would like to ask all these so called expert treasure hunters a question.
Why does a person buy a Metal Detector? Is it not because he wants to locate unknown objects.
Why does he or her not use their Knowledge, intuition and guessing  to find treasure

Quote
nothing to do with the real rational sciences and everything to do with one's imagination, the unconscious mind, and the natural desire and want for a plausible explanation that satisfies the ego of the operator
obtained from Chance Guessing.
that research and intuition have a lot to do with your finds,
an illusion, brought on by the compelling nature of the ideomotor effect.

I wonder why these facts do not apply to using a metal Detector. After all many people have told use that they use a Metal Detector the same as Dowsing rods…Art

During that time, I have not received any complaint whatsoever from my customers.  That is a fact.  So where is the scam the Skeptics keep accusing me of, and why?    Dell

"A lot of people who've been scammed or swindled feel too embarrassed to report that they've been ripped off.

Often, they feel that if they had just been smarter, they would have avoided being scammed, and they keep silent for fear of being judged.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Smart people get scammed too (take a look at the recent Enron and WorldCom scandals). "

Read this and more at: http://www.scambusters.org/Scambusters58.html

Fine. My profession has been stated and restated hundreds of times. I have been a Professional Treasure hunter/ Salvor, for the past 35 years.

Now, get a life of your own that doesn't involve me.    Dell

So you don't claim your business as an LRL/MFD salesman??

Are we afraid to answer??

af, it seems to do no good asking that question of those who are afraid.

Sure seems that way....  But then the question becomes, why is Dell afraid to answer this question....?

...and bragging on the internet about his showing an LRL he received to other employees in his office and laughing about it.

Clarification: I was not the one laughing. A Good Question to ponder is, why would a bunch of EE's simply look inside an Electroscope, and bust out laughing?

Sadly, no, I don't get paid to investigate or debunk LRLs. All on my time, and my money. Just paid another $1000 for a super-rare LRL that I've been looking for for over 10 years.

And folks will notice that I don't post here very often; when I do, it's to address very specific points, and then I'm off again. Don't have time for the never-ending bashfest. I provide evidence, I provide help to folks who really want to learn, I provide a challenge to LRL manufacturers (again soon); folks can take 'em or leave 'em.

Hey Carl, two questions come to mind.

1 - What the 'bunch of engineers' were laughing at when they looked inside the device? Details please.

2 - If you, your company or any other sketpic are positive the electroscopes don't work as advertised, why you or anybody still have not filed  a lawsuit against Afilani and his Electroscopes?

I would really appreciate if you could answer both questions.

Panic time

Panic time

So...ya gonna pad the thread with another staged photograph or something photoshopped?

Art's still concerned the skeptics are panicking??  That old man needs to check his priorities.  He can't spell, but wants to make sure we stay calm.....go figure..... 

Fine. My profession has been stated and restated hundreds of times. I have been a Professional Treasure hunter/ Salvor, for the past 35 years.

Now, get a life of your own that doesn't involve me.    Dell

So you don't claim your business as an LRL/MFD salesman??

Are we afraid to answer??

af, it seems to do no good asking that question of those who are afraid.

Sure seems that way....  But then the question becomes, why is Dell afraid to answer this question....?

It's no more a question for Dell than it is for Ted.

"A lot of people who've been scammed or swindled feel too embarrassed to report that they've been ripped off.

Often, they feel that if they had just been smarter, they would have avoided being scammed, and they keep silent for fear of being judged.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Smart people get scammed too (take a look at the recent Enron and WorldCom scandals). "

More Excuses Ted

Art's still concerned the skeptics are panicking??  That old man needs to check his priorities.  He can't spell, but wants to make sure we stay calm.....go figure.....

It's no more a question for Dell than it is for Ted.

So is a fact that the Skeptics Cult does  not allow you to provide poof about their theories? Is it also a fact that the Skeptics Cult does not allow you to have separate thoughts?...I thought I would ask because your post all look the same. They remind me of a record that is stuck…Art

1 - What the 'bunch of engineers' were laughing at when they looked inside the device? Details please.

The inside of the device, actually.

2 - If you, your company or any other sketpic are positive the electroscopes don't work as advertised, why you or anybody still have not filed  a lawsuit against Afilani and his Electroscopes?

A lawsuit is filed by someone who has suffered damages, which I haven't. You could argue a metal detector company has suffered damages, but the reality is that the LRL market is so small the damages aren't measurable. So a court may not allow a lawsuit to proceed if damages cannot be demonstrated.

I've had quite a few people contact me, often after they bought an LRL, couldn't get it to work, finally did their homework, and ran across my web site. The common question they ask is, "Why doesn't someone do something about these people?" To which my response to them is, "Why don't YOU do something about it?" Everyone's wanting someone else to do the work.