How sure is it that the Lost Dutchman mine is in the Superstitions?

Oh, wait, Roy (Oro),

Isn't there already somebody doing that???

B

Dear Lamar,

I will be receiving the documents I mentioned sometime next week.  I will post them and send you hard copies if requested.

"They consist of the following:
 
La Paz claims: These come from the Blair collection at the Arizona Historical Foundation at ASU in Tempe.
 
* The papers are a claim on the Aldama Lode – eight claimants, two are Peraltas.
 
* A claim on Aquila Lode – 11 claimants, two are Peraltas.
 
* A deed from Miguel Peralta to Forester for 100 feet of the Aldama Lode.
 
Yavapai County Claims:
 
* The sale by Pablo Peralta et al. to Flower of the Valenciana.
 
* Pablo Peraltas re-claim of the Valenciana Mine
 
The original claim by Pablo Peralta et al. on the Valenciana would have been in the Bradshaw Mining Book, which has long disappeared as the claim predated 1865 when the Territorial laws, including filing mining clams with the County, went into effect.
 
Re: the La Paz claims – when they were stored at the Yuma County Recorder’s office they were easily accessible. Since then they were moved to the State Archives to save them, but they are today difficult of access as the last time I asked for them they had yet to be listed in the finding aids. Most of the staff had no idea they even had them. I know they had them as many years ago I was there when they arrived. I remember seeing Peralta claims – how many I don't remember. I am glad to have found at least some of them in Blair’s files."

That will be the best I can do, so don't expect a follow up.  If that's not enough for you, you will need to do your own research in the files that are mentioned.

Hope all is well with you.

Take care,

Joe

Dang Joe, talk about hard evidence! I really wish you would consider writing your OWN book, with the research and experience you have, I would sure buy it in a moment! I know you are doing it per the request of our mutual friend Lamar, but I will appreciate it too! 
Roy ~ Oroblanco

Roy,

Thank you for your kind words, but the research was done by a good friend of mine.  You may notice that I put the information in quotes.

While I have done my own research, as you well know, and many trips into the Superstitions, I have garnered more information from my friends than I ever could on my own.

In Dutch Hunting it is often more important who you know, rather than, what you think you know.  Even those who hate me, will tell you that I have unbelievable sources.  Well.......those who are not the little people will tell you that.

Take care,

Joe

Dear Lamar,

I have all of the documents I promised you.  Here are the first three:





The rest will follow over the next day or so.  If you prefer, I will make hard copies and mail them to you.

Take care,

Joe

Sheesh, why can't I write like that??

Don Jose de La Mancha

First you need a quill pen, Jose 

B

Dear cactusjumper;
Would it be possible to make the photos a just a tad smaller, my friend? I am almost able to make out several words of text at their current size. Thank you in advance for all consideration and trouble.
Your friend;
LAMAR

Dear Lamar,

If you right click on the picture and save it to your desktop, you can open it and zoom it enough to read it.  If you email me, I will email you the entire group of documents.

havasho@frontiernet.net

Take care,

Joe

Dear Lamar,

Were you able to read the documents I posted here, or the ones I emailed to you?

If you can read them, I would appreciate an opinion.

Take care,

Joe

Dear cactusjumper;
I just e-mailed you, my friend.
Your friend;
LAMAR

Dear Lamar,

I re-sent the documents in the body of an email.  They are included as an attachment as well.  If you are able to read them, they will give you a little more insight into Peralta mining in Arizona.  If you like, I will be happy to send you hard copies.

In addition to these documents from Dr. Glover, I received transcripts from the James Addison Reavis trial, where Julio and Miguel Peralta testified.  They were sent by my friend, Garry Cundiff (novice).  The Peralta's were asked about and confirmed  their mining in Arizona.  This from the Cross-Examination of Miguel Lauro Peralta y Vasquez:

Q.  54 In what year did your father first go to Arizona?
A.       About 1862.
Q.  55 And was he engaged in mining during all the time he lived in Arizona?
A.       Yes, sir.
Q.  56  In what particular part of the territory were his mines?
A.        In the Camp of La Paz, and in the district of Montezuma, in Yavapai County, Arizona.
Q.  57  Did he own the mines himself?
A.        Yes, sir; not one alone, but many.  I have got the deeds to show it.
Q.  58  Did your father purchase the mines?
A.        No, sir; he discovered them.

There are other mention of the mines in the Bradshaws during the testimony.

Are you changing your mind yet?

Take care,

Joe

FEMF,

First of all, I made a mistake in that post.  It was not the trial of Reavis.  It was Reavis suing the U.S. Government.  The date of the testimony was Oct. 27, 1890.

The answer to your question is......no.  I don't believe the Peralta Land Grant is mentioned at all.  I will go back and reread the transcript later.

Take care,

Joe

FEMF,

First of all, I made a mistake in that post.  It was not the trial of Reavis.  It was Reavis suing the U.S. Government.  The date of the testimony was Oct. 27, 1890.

The answer to your question is......no.  I don't believe the Peralta Land Grant is mentioned at all.  I will go back and reread the transcript later.

Take care,

Joe

Hello Joe
Thank's!
FEMF

Hope this works - it is interesting.


http://www.adrive.com/home/download...979255075c550f0ffa05a855d136e29195e


B

Hope this works - it is interesting.


http://www.adrive.com/home/download...979255075c550f0ffa05a855d136e29195e


B

Hello Mrs. Oro
Thank you for the link.
FEMF

Dear Lamar,

With each passing day I look in here expecting to see a post from you saying, Oops......looks like I was mistaken about the Peralta's mining in Arizona.  It also looks like I was wrong about the Peralta's not owning the Valenciana Mine in the Bradshaws.  You have posted neither of these obvious facts.

It is my guess that your confusion on the Valenciana in Sonora, comes from "Spirits Of The Border...." by Ken and Sharon Hudnall.  On page 44 they state:  "Pablo Peralta owned a silver mine in Ures, Sonora, for many years, but by the middle of the 19th. century the silver was about exhausted and corruption in the local government force him to abandon the mine...........It was probably about 1863 when Pablo and Miguel left California and went to Arizona.  They held a registered mining claim on the Agua Fria River a few miles from present day Black Canyon City, and they called their the Valenciana, the same name as the abandoned silver mine in Mexico".

I may be wrong, but I believe the Valenciana Mine is in Guanajuato.  If that's true, the Peralta mine they mention in Ures, is not the Valenciana.

I have offered to send you hard copies of the documents, which you have ignored.  This is really information you could have found in a great number of places.  Any of the historical works on the James Addison Reavis, Peralta Land Grant swindle, will mention the Peralta mining endeavors in Arizona.

If you are unable to find them, I would be happy to recommend some sources.  On the other hand, I am still willing to send you hard copies of the documents.  I am in the habit of sending this kind of information at no charge, just as many of my LDM friends have done for me over the years.

I look forward to some kind of reply.

Take care,

Joe

One thing Jose said, must be repeated - the Spanish use names over and over and over.  It is not impossible for there to be 200 Valenciana mines.

B

Cactusjumper wrote

Dear Lamar,

With each passing day I look in here expecting to see a post from you saying, Oops......looks like I was mistaken

I expected very much the same thing, when we were discussing geology and whether lode deposits always have placers - thinking that our amigo would notice the error and say "oops" for whom among us has never made an error?  However I suspect it is not Lamar's way, to admit of error. I won't hold it against him, but won't try to sway his opinion.

Cactusjumper also wrote

the Valenciana Mine is in Guanajuato. If that's true, the Peralta mine they mention in Ures, is not the Valenciana.

There is a detail I certainly missed - as mentioned earlier, I did not research this in detail and took the statements about the Peraltas and Valenciana at face value since I thought they were peripheral to our case.

Mrs Oroblanco wrote

the Spanish use names over and over and over. It is not impossible for there to be 200 Valenciana mines.

This makes research all the more difficult. Very much as the "other" Lost Dutchman mine in Arizona (somewhere near Wickenburg) also leads to cross-confabulation of the facts.
Oroblanco

Joe, you posted

Dear Lamar,

With each passing day I look in here expecting to see a post from you saying, Oops......looks like I was mistaken about the Peralta's mining in Arizona.  It also looks like I was wrong about the Peralta's not owning the Valenciana Mine in the Bradshaws.  You have posted neither of these obvious facts.

While I certainly respect Lamar's knowledge, a year or so ago there was a discussion on the forum here about native copper in upper Michigan in which he expressed that there was NO native copper in that area.  Despite my having lived there and seen it as well as providing much evidence to the contrary, I never saw any "I guess I was mistaken" posts, so I don't suspect one will be forthcoming for you either

Hi Paul,

You can find Lamar's answer here:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,41448.msg2025153.html#new

Take care,

Joe

I saw Lamar's replies, and noticed that he still didn't say he was mistaken.  At least he acknowledged your efforts. 
Oroblanco
 

Roy,

I have five copies of the twelve documents I received.  If Lamar needs more proof, I will be happy to mail him a set.  I am satisfied with his post, as well as the evidence I have received.

Have to admit, I am unsure why he feels the need to do research in Mexico to validate Peralta's in Arizona, but each of us must follow our own path to the facts.  I look forward to seeing what he digs up down there.

Take care,

Joe 

Dear Lamar,

I received another document today, from a friend in Missouri.  He is one of the best researchers (LDM) that I know.   This newspaper article came out of Greg Davis' collection:



You should be able to right click on the image and save it to your computer.  Once there, it should be no problem to get it into a program to zoom and read it.

It looks like, with a little effort, you will be able  to read it here.

Take care,

Joe

Thanks Joe,
I had no trouble reading it here.