Dave Ramsey trashes owning gold

[Waterworld]

Last night on his radio show he said under no circumstances should anyone own gold. His logic was than "gold itself has no intrinsic value" and that its value exists simply because people want it. He used the movie Waterworld, where they used dirt as a commodity, as an example that anything can have value as long as everybody wants it.

He dismissed its value in an economic collapse, citing the Hurricane Katrina aftermath. "People didn't buy stuff with gold then."

He believes that "the only people who think you should own gold are people who sell gold."

All I know is, if I had bought five ounces three years ago and cashed in today I would more than double my money. I wish someone had called him on that.

sounds like he's blowing smoke

A currncys value is only as good as the peoples faith in that currency. To me, people will always have faith in gold and it will always have a value.

 This guy has a show about helpin' folks get out of debt. And in my oppinion he knows his stuff on that subject. He is no expert on gold. His expertise is in helping folks get out of debt.

 I believe what he was probably giving was his oppinion about owning gold. Think about it, if you are up to your eyeballs in debt, why would you waste your money on gold instead of trying to get out of debt first.

 Anyway, the man knows his stuff when it comes to gettin' out of debt.

You better make sure you "own" gold.  That is you have the real stuff IN your posession.  Not some piece of paper saying you "own" gold.

That's all I'm saying on this topic.

I said that was all I was going to say but actually what I have seen happen to a few people I know is exactly what Seamuss said.  These people thought they owned gold when all they really owned was worthless paper.

If it comes right down to brass tacks and the excrement hits the oscillating rotational cooling device you can bet that if you have said paper, it's not going to do you much good unless you need to start a fire.

If you want to "own" gold then the only real way is to possess the gold you own.

That is what I am trying to say on this issue.

Stock in mining companies can be risky if the company falls on hard times or is mismanaged.

Tell me about it. I inherited a lot of shares in one of the biggest gold mines in the north west. These were purchased B4 the great depression. They are now worthless, but they do look nice.

remember --gold in hand is gold --gold written down as "owned" on paper is a promise -- and promises get broken all the time.

The same argument can be said about the greenback. Greenbacks only hold their value if it's backed by something and it hasn't been backed by anything for decades.

The feds are printing money so fast now that it has no value to most people and banks are using some of their bailout money to buy physical gold.That along should make him wonder about his statement.

If there were something better to buy at this point in time , they would do so.
Ramsey is right, if the world economy collapses, gold and all the other artificially inflated
commodities would collapse along with the "futures" market/exchange.

Ted Turner has it worked out. He's invested in Bison.

the #1 real thing long term wize will be water purifaction --folks got to have clean water peroid -- right after that comes food --seeds and land to grow crops on -- livestock to eat --- shelter and clothing --- guns for defending your self and goods as well as for hunting game animals -- fishing gear to to catch fish with, cooking and building tools and supplies .--ie hard core basic staple items medical supplies , salt ,  gun powder& reloading goods

because when a hungry armed man meets a supplied unarmed man --he will not be a hungry man for long

[Waterworld]

Last night on his radio show he said under no circumstances should anyone own gold. His logic was than "gold itself has no intrinsic value" and that its value exists simply because people want it. He used the movie Waterworld, where they used dirt as a commodity, as an example that anything can have value as long as everybody wants it.

He dismissed its value in an economic collapse, citing the Hurricane Katrina aftermath. "People didn't buy stuff with gold then."

He believes that "the only people who think you should own gold are people who sell gold."

All I know is, if I had bought five ounces three years ago and cashed in today I would more than double my money. I wish someone had called him on that.

What about the fact that gold is used in industry? How can anyone say the gold in and of itself has no intrinsic value?

This guy has a show about helpin' folks get out of debt. And in my oppinion he knows his stuff on that subject. He is no expert on gold. His expertise is in helping folks get out of debt.

 I believe what he was probably giving was his oppinion about owning gold. Think about it, if you are up to your eyeballs in debt, why would you waste your money on gold instead of trying to get out of debt first.

 Anyway, the man knows his stuff when it comes to gettin' out of debt.

I agree. Dave knows his stuff about getting people out of debt.

I agree with MC.
Dave gives very good advice on debt related subjects and also on some investment products, mostly
mutual funds that are "usually" pretty safe and stable over time, so I would agree with him on those things.
And he also says that you should do your home work on any investment and don't risk more than you can afford
to lose, I think anyone can agree with that regardless of what you invest in.

His advice on gold is a little shortsighted in my opinion.
The hurricane Katrina statement doesn't work because it was not a total economic break down, it was a localized disaster.
Paper money was still valued and was still accepted around that area as in the rest of the country.
The Waterworld statement has some truth to it. Rocks, shells, chicken bones, dogs teeth, seeds, gold, silver etc. have all
been used for money thoughout the history of man, so could dirt if we were a world devoid of land.
But p.m.'s was the best because they are rare and could not be made of common materials. And that's why they still hold some
value today. People chose the form of money they wanted not some king or government, the people did, and they chose p.m.'s
And if an economic break down happened, a currency WILL come about, maybe not overnight but it would not take long
for something to used, whether it is gold, silver, ammo, beer, clean water, seeds or shoelaces.
Bean
 

if our "paper" money becomes only useful as toilet paper -- say due to hyper inflation --dropping dollar value -- what will be the "new" money? ---simple the things you "really" need in your day to day life thats what-- traded via a barter based exchange system -- can you eat a fist full of worthless paper cash --or silver or gold? --- however everyone must have clean water and food as well --- medical supplies wil a prime item , gas or power / fuel supplies will be in demand -- guns to protect both yourself and goods and to hunt with.

tobacco and alcohol of course goes without question

when the s hits the fan --- who cares how many useless dollars you get for a oz of unusible gold -- I mean in a barter type use what good is it frankly? -- its only real usefulness is in high tech electric stuff and jewelry and dental fillings -- in other words its fairly useless in a basic type economy

I'd bet ole Dave has some gold. Some jewelry at least.
I think that gold will always have value. Even from neolithic times, gold has never been worth nothing...
I'd rather right now have $1000 worth of gold than $1000 in US Currency.
OK, I'd just like to have $1000. If I did, I'd buy gold!

Scott

the #1 real thing long term wize will be water purifaction --folks got to have clean water peroid -- right after that comes food --seeds and land to grow crops on -- livestock to eat --- shelter and clothing --- guns for defending your self and goods as well as for hunting game animals -- fishing gear to to catch fish with, cooking and building tools and supplies .--ie hard core basic staple items medical supplies , salt ,  gun powder& reloading goods

because when a hungry armed man meets a supplied unarmed man --he will not be a hungry man for long

What will people trade for those items? gold? labor? sex?  
I guess there will be trading posts where useful things will be traded for other useful things.

GG~

I dont know about others but I am starting to sell my gold holdings. Today I sell 20 ounces, tomorow another 20 ounces! anyone buying?.  http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,283461.0.html

The economic system we (the world in general) have now came about from a "basic economy" or barter type system.
P.m.'s were used then and for 1000's of years. You couldn't eat them or make useful tools out of them, but they were still
used as currency. What ever you could not produce yourself or if you couldn't do it good enough, (maybe you built a crappy
house or your crops keep dying). Then you would need to get those things from other people that could build it or grow
it right. Remember the barter system only works when people want or need the things you have to trade and vice versa.
Example: If you make really good knives it will be only a matter of time before everybody in your little town has one of your
knives, once that happens your knives have lost there value compared to other things, everybody has one so who needs it.
P.m's made things alot more simple, they don't lose there value when cut into small pieces for smaller purchases,
(a knife cut in small pieces is worthless). They also don't spoil or go stale like most food will, they virtually last forever.
This is why people still like p.m.'s to this day. If you have a stock pile of goods, a little gold and silver sure wouldn't hurt
anything, and if s*** doesn't hit the fan, maybe you could sell your p.m.'s to get back a little bit of that money you spent
on all the cans of pork and beans you now have collecting dust in your basement.
It is important to understand how money works, not so much in what object will be used as money.

Bean

Just saw a gold commercial on tv yesterday. The lady said: "If you had to hold it for 5 years would you rather someone give you $5000 in gold or $5000 in U.S. currency." I'm tending to think that the gold is going to be worth alot more than the paper in 5 years.
Getting out of debt is more important than owning gold. So is having some food and water stored up and maybe some firewood.
JMHO

[Waterworld]

Last night on his radio show he said under no circumstances should anyone own gold. His logic was than "gold itself has no intrinsic value" and that its value exists simply because people want it. He used the movie Waterworld, where they used dirt as a commodity, as an example that anything can have value as long as everybody wants it.

He dismissed its value in an economic collapse, citing the Hurricane Katrina aftermath. "People didn't buy stuff with gold then."

He believes that "the only people who think you should own gold are people who sell gold."

All I know is, if I had bought five ounces three years ago and cashed in today I would more than double my money. I wish someone had called him on that.

I suppose he should try to contact the Indian Central Bank about that 200 Billion in gold they purchased and tell them how stupid they were.

It seems to me that those in power in the US government especially will stop at nothing to discredit and confuse the masses so they can be lied to.

They scream don't buy gold, they talk about bubbles, they PAY other people like this radio DJ to badmouth it. Meanwhile they are buying up all they can find.

They are scum.

If you shouldn't be buying gold (or silver) then why would the government of China be telling their people to buy it? Why would you see governments around the globe buying up as much as they can ?

 The economy could go totally belly up. The dollar, the euro, and all the others could completely lose their value. People will still need some type of a universal form of buying power. Be it localized in different areas, and each area using what they seem neccessary, there will be some type of object that all people will use to buy things with.

 Stock up on things to barter with, let's see how far that gets when everybody else has the same things that you stocked up with to start with ! Let's see, I need some meat, bread, and some milk. Are you going to be willing to trade some of your ammo, or a gun for any of this ? How about some cans of pork and beans ? You think somebody else wants your pork and beans when they have meat, milk, and bread already ?

 If you are stocking up on things that's all good and fine. But don't expect someone to barter with you for this stuff when they themselves probably have already stocked up on the same things ! No, there will come about some type of universal buying power that everyone agrees upon.

  If gold is so frickin worthless, then why was our currency based (at one time) on this metal.  Sounds to me like Ramsey is worthless.

To take Ramsey's use of waterworld in context, The reason dirt was worth so much, is because there was NO LAND. The whole basis of the movie was that there was a enormous flood which covered everything. 100% water. No Land. THe only cities were underwater. The people traded dirt because they could use it. Grow plants, feed people, etc.

Just my 2 cents.

Alex.

Oh, and I'd prefer to invest in silver, gold is too compact. The way I see it, if the s*** really does hit the fan, would you want to pay for a half dozen eggs and a loaf of bread with a $50 gold coin? How could you make change? What if someone saw it, and figured theres more where that came from? Im investing in junk silver. Its worth more to me.

If you have physical gold and want to trash it then I have room for it. I'm not proud. I'll take your trash and call it treasure.

Oh, and I'd prefer to invest in silver, gold is too compact. The way I see it, if the s*** really does hit the fan, would you want to pay for a half dozen eggs and a loaf of bread with a $50 gold coin? How could you make change? What if someone saw it, and figured theres more where that came from? Im investing in junk silver. Its worth more to me.

yeah, I'm investing in silver too, 10 ounces of silver, in my opinion, is worth more than an ounce of gold because people won't be able to make change when the dollar goes to zero because it'll be very hard for people to quantify value in terms of real money because we're all used to quantifying value in terms of monopoly money.  When you ask what the value of gold is, instead of saying 20 ounces of silver or 50 ounces of silver, we quote the value of gold in terms of dollars, same with silver, we don't base the value of silver as being equal to a set amount of another commodity, we base the value in dollars, so when the dollar becomes worthless nobody will be able to make change because nobody will know how to make change in terms of commodities because we've all been conditioned to make change in dollars, that is why I like silver better than gold.

Also, to get back on the topic of dave ramsey, I think the guy can be a total jerk because he's so cocky with his opinions and he can't tell the difference between facts and opinions when it comes to his own views.  That's just my opinion anyway.  Btw, for those of you who invest in mutual funds, what fees has your mutual fund company taken out of your money?  Did you know that you can be liable for the mutual fund's capital gains tax even if you yourself don't realize any capital gains from the investment?  I know this is alittle off topic, but since the topic was brought up because of the topic of dave ramsey was brought up, I thought I'd put my 2 cents out their too.  Personally, I think he's bought and paid for by the mutual fund companies he recommends, which is why I don't listen to him.

I'm assuming that this concept is what people mean when they talk about a "ratio." This is a very good topic, I think there is another thread that discusses some aspects of the "ratio" idea.
Back in the late 1800's, it was something like 16:1.
I have no idea what it is today...maybe 65:1?
If gold tumbles, does silver go along for the downward ride also?


Scott