Another Dutch Hunter Crosses Over

I started this topic on another forum, but it has fallen on hard times.  Seems like there should be a topic where we can pay tribute to our fallen comrades.  I will, regretfully, write the first post.

On Wednesday morning, moments after I arrived, my dad took his last breath. He nodded his head and smiled when I came in. Although he couldn't speak, the nod and smile spoke volumes to me. It seemed that he was just waiting for me to be there.

Dad was as Italian as they come. He sang, played the guitar and mandolin and had a way with the ladies. His friends never had to worry about him turning away from them. His enemies could count on his Italian temper when they crossed him.

My first trip into the Superstitions was because he wanted me to be with them on their first expedition. Chuck agreed, and I can assure you I was a very proud thirteen-year old. We made many trips together over the years.

It was a blessing that he passed, but in truth, I have missed him for over five years now. I have had a long time to get used to the idea of his death, but it was not enough.

Tony Ribaudo was a Dutch Hunter. Everyone who goes into the Superstition Mountains will be walking in his footsteps.

He is with me still.

Joe Ribaudo

I'm really sorry for your loss, I'm half Italian and know what you mean when you describe your papa. My granpa on my dads side waited on his death bed for me to travel from Colorado to Mass years ago and within a couple of hours of my arrival he passed.
My condolences
John

HI CJ: I am not particularly a Religious person, this is partly because of years of research and experimenting  in the so called Paranormal.  What happens when someone or thing dies is not clear, but I can say with personal conviction that "something" continues to exist.  For want of the proper word,  I will borrow the phrase a  "Soul".  It is a conscious entity.  In general we are unable to contact or communicate with each other, however that does not  negate the existence of it.

We cannot communicate with the distant Galaxies either, but they exist.  One day the theory of 'Souls" will be proven, but in the meantime we must have faith.  There have been too many cases of spontaneous contact in an emergency to have any reasonable doubt.

Rest assured that he now knows the secret of the LDM and the Superstitions but it has no effective  meaning for  him since ha is under a different sort of values, however, in one way or another, he may just help you to solve the problem.

Tayopa has been a classic case for me.   I feel that I am simply a tool.  It is a weird  feeling, but whenever I have been stopped, somehow, at that moment,  the soloution appears whether it is financial  or information. but only in reference to the immediate need, never an excess. nor to the future.   You explain it me if you can. 

Tropical Tramp

to live and not dream past this reality is to never truely live at all ...what makes a man a man . its a simple answer . it comes from within his own being ...the will to under stand what his sense collect and his will to hunt for the answer to  anything that  he dose not under stand ..

we all set the levels of our work and play and chose what path to take ... if you are walking in the Mts and look down and see a foot print in the sand you may think of him because thats what he has shared with you , as a feather i beleave i have lived a million moons yet the one i leave now is for now , how is just a question and it has just a answer yet the will of the being to find the answers and question is hiden within us all ...


soon i will be takeing photos and it will be hard work and the day will be hot and i will not  to rest and set my camera down on the rock beside me and reacxh down and pick up a handfull of sand and than i will remember what you said here and what i type now and i will hold sand tight as i can and call out his name 3 times in to wind and let the sands fall free in the wind .....
.

it is a never ending path the sand apone the wind ....

remember and let what you learn from him live on in you !

My thanks to each of you for your kind words.  It means a lot to know that there are thoughts and prayers being offered for my dad, my family and myself.

Take care,

Joe

we only get one dad , and few ever know him as his son's do .. we look beyond what other see and know of him . we who he is within .....my dad is like your sleeping the long sleep , a dutch hunt also . never getting the chance to get to the mts . he had paning black sands from calf. and had been rock hounding for well over 25 years  ,my grand father worked st joe's mine  3 miles down most of his life ....

you dont give up ,its your time . dont waste it .. think about what your doing and why and know he watches over your sholder....

My condolences Joe.

Every one that passes over is a great loss, but maybe he will reach down and tap you on the shoulder one day, and whisper in your ear, "PSSSSSSST! It's just over the hill, thataway."

Best,

Mike

Cj do you beleave ?

dont question what i tell you, do it and see for your self . take a white cloth  put in the cloth something that was your fathers ,and tie the cloth with a peice of string that you have found that someone else has thrown away ...you must find the string , a peice of string lost or thrown away by someone unknown to you !  a rock a peice of hair . anything small that he has touched in the past . get a small pocket size picture of him  . put these things in the white cloth . now here is the hard part , get a little sand from the Mts of the area you want to look over , put a small amont in the cloth as well .. dont worry about any falling out . than put something of your own that you carried  with you for many years and know as your own .

as you find and collect these items put them in the cloth safe in your pocket each time you add them  ...  when you get to the spot you want his help  lay the cloth apone the ground and open it and let it smell the winds , his spirit well come ...

if you do it right and belave , you well have made a shamen spell hide or bag  , and he well make his presence know to you ...

if you reach down very slowly and standing at the point you frist note he is near , reach down and pick a small pinch of sand from under your foot and at it to the cloth , than you can take the spell bag anywhere you want and call his spirit when you open it ...

note if you do not beleave you will be wasteing your time . if you beleave and your sense know you are being truthfull to the winds , he will come , when is up to his spirit and you may try many times before he or you beleave togather , but when that happens you and his spirit well share the space around the spell bag as it is open and when you close it the space will vanish back into the beyond ...

what i am telling you is past down from father to son many many life times . if you beleave you well under stand what i am shareing with you here in this ink ...who knows if you laern the art of this . you can throw the cloth away and cast a breath into your hand and wipe the sand smoth and cast the bones of time past & yet to be seen ... no path  is with out its steps ...or its stepping stone . use these things with in the cloth as your stones to make the path you beleave can be there and it will be there ... i do not know if you can cast the bones only he who holds the bones before he cast them .will know ... . do you remember the old crazy shaman / witch doctors of the history .. were not all history .....we just dont talk about it often anymore ...know this gift dose not come without a price , ask your self before you do this or beleave if you are willing to pay the price or toll ... under stand your being is between deminsions or shares the two realities when this happens, you will age acordingly  , yes that is what i mean , you can age years in mintues , so pick your space wisely and time the event knowing you have a way to stop it if need be ....

you will be stepping over to a path that is not yours . be respectfull or you will pay far more than you are willing to pay ......under stand you and he well share a space between you both a link a conection . some can watch with their eyes open most start with the closeing of the eyes . if you taste and master the casting of the bones  far ahead of you is a place where seers and shadow walkers go , where ageing is a normal part of the game of sorrows ....

i see childern playing , i give a toy to one . will he play or will he use the toy to learn more about what is around him and what is within ......

some times i stand , some times i walk , some times i run and play , some times i dance . some times  i dont remember . some times i do .....crazy me crazy u

to find one who can beleave is hard to do , yet to find many ( a ring ) is more than a few . the chiffs of old would share the cost ...makeing them stronger and the ageing becomes the oppesite .

CJ you have a new toy, what you do with it is up to you ...will you show others and get them to play or will you keep it and  use it for your self .....how much will it cost you  ?

My Dad was buried last Monday.  It rained, the wind was blowing and it was cold.  The Priest forgot he was supposed to be there, so my Cousin Sam did the honors.  All in all, it couldn't have been better.

Once again, my thanks for the condolances.

Joe Ribaudo

hi  Far better from one of the family and from the heart, than from a canned speech.  He probably received a kick out of it.

I'll probably be lucky if anyone other than  my wife or blind bowman and my mule, says goodbye  sniffff.

Tropical Tramp

All,

Gene Reynolds called from his hospital bed this morning.  He is in serious trouble with his heart and needs our thoughts and prayers.  Gene is an old time Dutch Hunter and one of the good guys.

Thank you,

Joe Ribaudo

Joe,
He will be in my thoughts.

B,

I thank you for Gene.  Stopping to think about someone we don't know, shows the kind of heart that beats within.

I fear I would become a coyote or javelina hunter if they got one of our pups.  I know it hits you very hard. 

Best wishes,

Joe

Joe,

Prayers and thoughts going out for Gene.

Please keep us posted.

Thom

Missed this post for some reason until today - I don't know you CJ, but I'm sorry to hear of your family's loss.  It sounds like he had a good life.

Cubfan,

Wow, thought that was all over, but your post showed me it still lies just beneath the surface.

My thanks,

Joe

I just posted this message on the LDM Forum:

One of the reasons I started this topic, was so that some of the less well known Dutch Hunters could be remembered and their passing noted.

Greg Davis recently sent out an email advising a few people that Charles (Chuck) Crawford had passed away last month. No details were included in the message, other than the date he passed away.

I never met Chuck, but it seems to me that we are all brothers in the fraternity of the Superstitions. I have gleaned a little information about the man and will post it in the hopes that others, who may have known him, will add a little personal history.

From an old time Dutch Hunter:
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"Charles M. Crawford was an interesting person. I met him for the first time in 1975, in Bark's Canyon. Deleated.....and I were riding horseback in the area looking at the numerous mine tunnels and dumps in the area. Chuck had just staked out his claims in the area. Just before meeting me Chuck talked Channel 12 into doing a news doc on a stone he found. He claim the date was left there by the Coronado Expedition in 1541. Yes, Crawford and my trail crossed several time during the past thirty years. Chuck raised a lot of money off of his imagination over the years. He was really into fire assayer. Some of the small smelters he built kind of scared me, but they never blew up. He managed to melt his samples and pour off the slag. I believe Chuck was from Buffalo, New York. Chuck certainly had his problems with the local constabulary over the years. As you probably know he ran for Sheriff of Pinal County a couple of times. One time he got over 13,000 votes which shocked everyone. These are just a couple of stories. A lot of people spent more time with Chuck then I did and know more about his mining operation."

Sounds like Chuck was, pretty much, one of us. 

Chuck believed he had found the LDM and staked a claim close to Bark's Canyon. That was in 1976. He was quoted in an article published in the Phoenix Gazette, in 1980 that the LDM was no longer lost.

My condolences to Chuck's family and friends.

Godspeed,

Joe Ribaudo

some times being a shaman is not as fun as most believe it to be as i read the reaply before me i could hear the soft hit of the pick on the rocks and he dug in the early morning hours . he talk softly to him self ....and only stoped when the call of his family came to mind or the pain in his back needed to strighten up ....the splash of cool water on the head . and the hit of the pick would start again . like music to a miners .. souls .. you keep swing that pick chuck . i will come and seat with you now and then , i guess i dont hear the pain threw the music ....a few months ago my brother had a close call with lung cancer ,thank god it truned out not to be cancer . yesterday night he goes in for heart problems . today he signs him self out and refuse any more test ....


i shake my head and wonder why and just a few mintues ago i herd chucks pick music and knew just why .....

he wants so bad to go back and he knows it maybe his last chance ....i tell my self i cant take him out there if he is sick . yet i cant tell him no ...

all i can say is when you are out there and you hear think you herd a pick far off and away . you remember chuck and the other before him and maybe a few of us yet to give up the search ...


i say dont rest in peace swing that pick as long as you want or you can ...the music is truely beautful to those of us that can hear it .. brovo brovo chuck ! oncore oncore

My sympathies for your loss. The best part is what you two shared
& the times you had together. I feel you & him will never be far apart.

Joe,
These Duch chasers, like yourself and a few others, are a special type, I have met few I didn't like,and most I liked a lot.
I would very much have liked to have known Chuck. I feel I will mourn his passage as though I did.

There is one who did pass this month in 1989. He lived in Mesa AZ and was my mentor, my good friend and my partner.
I didn't meet him right off the way some folks meet friends like this.
I just happened to go to school with his kid.
when school was over we kids went into the service.
When service was over for me I came home to find out that my friend was staying in. And he did for almost 40 years.
His Dad, Glen Sweigart and I became friends and I went with him on many of his hunts, we cased the signs that took me from a hunting camp I had been in when I was 16 where a date of 1695 was chiseled into a stone face.

I learned that Glenn had spent the last two years of WWII as a prisoner of war in the Nuremberg corridor, many comment to me I think like he did, I take that as the highest of compliments, He was a very savvy individual.

He loved the out doors and he loved the Spanish trails. He loved a good mystery and he had one of the biggest hearts in a small guy I have ever encountered.
There are times in the year that bring back sweet memories for everyone, this month does it for me.

I will always miss my friend Glenn.
I think he still walks with me.
I know he walks in my heart.

Thom
Old Dog

Tubecity,

My thanks for the kind words, but I began the post about Chuck Crawford with this:

"I never met Chuck, but it seems to me that we are all brothers in the fraternity of the Superstitions. I have gleaned a little information about the man and will post it in the hopes that others, who may have known him, will add a little personal history."

Despite that, your thoughts are well received.

Thank you,

Joe Ribaudo

Thom,

I know the feeling well.  It's been many, many years since my Uncle Chuck passed away, and yet after a trip into the mountains around 2003, I got to thinking about our trips and the good times I had with him.....and had to pull off the road.

Those kind of memories will never die, until you take your last breath.  Not sure that will take them away either.

Glen's name rings a bell with me.  Considering the number of bells that are ringing on a regular basis, that's saying something.   It would not surprise me if he and my uncle knew each other.

Remembering is what this topic is all about.

My thanks,

Joe

Thanks Joe,

I'm sure it's just that time of year.
I seem to get stuff in my eye a lot, little things.

But you know,
I wouldn't have missed a second of it... not for the world.
I'm not any richer for the experience, but...
I have been enriched by it ... beyond measure.

I can remember a walk that started in Flagstaff, and I am still following that trail.
I want to finish it as Glen and I started it together.
Every time I go out I feel his presence, coaching, coaxing, and telling me "You missed something."

I guess all we can do as veterans of the hobby is to use what they keep giving us, and give the younger generation as much of a chance as we had.
OH yes, we had to work for it. without a doubt.
And the experience is more valuable than money can buy. But when the new comer needs a hand up, I think we honor the ones who taught us so well. By coaching, coaxing, and telling them.... Hey you missed something.  And sharing all those old memories with the ones who will in time take our place....

Thanks for the thread and the time.
and as always for your kind words.

Thom

Thom,

Seems like( should have put....many of) the new kids on the block already know everything.  Kind of spooky, ya know?

Joe

Thom,

Seems like the new kids on the block already know everything.  Kind of spooky, ya know?

Joe

Not all of us "new guys on the block" make those claims

Cubfan,

I really misspoke/miswrote there.   I need a little cold water thrown in my face now and again, and I thank you for the service.

You sir are one of a disappearing breed.  Many of the newbies come on claiming to know nothing one day, and giving lessons and guided tours the next.

Good luck and good hunting,

Joe

Cubfan,

I really misspoke/miswrote there.   I need a little cold water thrown in my face now and again, and I thank you for the service.

You sir are one of a disappearing breed.  Many of the newbies come on claiming to know nothing one day, and giving lessons and guided tours the next.

Good luck and good hunting,

Joe

LOL - just ribbing you CJ

I was raised to have the utmost respect for my elders - be that elders "in age" or "in experience."

It's unfortunate however that up until my mid 30's or so, I may have respected my elders but I didn't pay nearly as much attention as I should have.  I dearly regret not spending more time really talking to my great great aunt and uncle before they passed away - they came over directly from Germany many years ago and lived in what I found out later was one of the first homes built in the area (not sure of the data, but it was built of stone and the walls had to be at least 1.5-2 feet thick).

I'm sure there was alot of wisdom and history that I missed out on by not spending more quality time with them than I did.

Sorry for the little "aside story" - as I'm getting older I find myself getting more and more thoughtful and introspective. 

If there's one thing I could convince young kids of, it's that there is a vast wealth of experience and practical knowledge that disappears as each generation passes on - we owe it to ourselves and our kids to save as much of that as we can!

Joe,

I'm sure you have seen the instant experts,
the ones who know just enough to really get hurt.
Those are the ones I think you spoke of.

Then there are guys like Djui5 and AZstomper and Cubfan
This type hunter will find the grail and end up saving lives.
These are the best legacy old guys like us can leave.
I'm not sorry i met these guys.

Thom

But  then again .....
I'm not so old as to be counted out yet.
LOL
I ain't quittin yet.

LOL
Thom
OD

Thom,

"Then there are guys like Djui5 and AZstomper and Cubfan
This type hunter will find the grail and end up saving lives.
These are the best legacy old guys like us can leave.
I'm not sorry i met these guys."

Don't believe anyone could have said it better.  As far as I know, I have only met Randy, and he seems to fit your profile.....very well.  Tried to coax him into our Bully Bueno trip but, as usual, life/job got in the way of our hobbies.

As for being "counted out", I no longer have control over the horses, so I am staying in the messenger's seat.  Just along for the ride, but keeping an eye on the strongbox.

Take care,

Joe

Joe,
I have met these three here on TN,
AZstomper is a great guy , I have met and I do hunt with regularly.
He is the only one I can say I have met face to face.

Over the years I have learned to read a person in the writing they do.
You can hide things for a while but not for long.
all of these are as straight out with you and I as we are with each other,
No reason to hide anything, I admire that in anyone,

I like also that they come here with no hidden agenda no probing or prying.

These guys will find good things.

as far as the horses go I find myself on the ground walking a lot more than I used to.
I still walk the canyons and poke into the caves and make like a goat in the rocks.
Not as quickly as when I was younger but I still do it. If for no other reason than to sit and look out at what God put there for me to see.

Thom

Joe,

I'm sure you have seen the instant experts,
the ones who know just enough to really get hurt.
Those are the ones I think you spoke of.

Then there are guys like Djui5 and AZstomper and Cubfan
This type hunter will find the grail and end up saving lives.
These are the best legacy old guys like us can leave.
I'm not sorry i met these guys.

Thom

I appreciate the compliment, but I'm nowhere near the class of Djui5 or AZstomper.  I'm way too early in the stages of the LDM saga to be compared with anyone who's really hunting it.  I'm getting engrossed in the history of it with the hopes that someday perhaps I'll actually take the time to do some true hunting.

Cubfan,

You are doing just fine.  It's the desire to learn, and the heart to keep things honest that really counts.

Take care,

Joe

Cubfan,

Joe has it right,
Take your time and sort the facts,
you will learn to read a person presented and the person underneath by how facts and words are used, and expressed.
The truth is as hard to find in a legend of this size, And by it's own nature will try to deceive you. It has grown over the years and as Joe will attest there are new signs clues and even spokes of this wheel that have come up in the last 10 years that belong only to the legend and not the truth.

Learn to know when to do the footwork and when to stay behind. there are always more important things to chase than a blind clue with no substance.

I no longer chase the Dutch. But I am still one to follow the legend and i try to help keep the truth forefront. as dose our good friend Joe. Take the advice of those who do know the legend. Joe and Tayopa are among the best friends in your chosen venture that it may be possible to find.

As always,
Thom
OD

All,

I recently received news of the passing of another member of our community:

"The reason for this email is to let you know about the passing of an old Dutch hunter. The lady that passed away was Nellie Shell. She died on Monday, November 5, 2007. You might be familiar with the book she wrote about Superstition Mountain titled Treasure Mountain. Basically the book was a children book about the Superstition Mountains and old prospector she met. Nellie began her exploration of the mountain in the early 1960's. She knew an old prospector named Clary who had a camp in Needle Canyon below Al Morrow in late forties and early fifties. I think old Clary was in Needle Canyon before Morrow."

"Memorial Services will be held for Nellie Monday, November 12, 2007, 7:00 PM at the Word of Grace Church, 655 E. University, Mesa, Arizona."

It may be that some of you knew her, and would like to attend the services tomorrow.

Godspeed Nellie.

Joe Ribaudo

Joe,

Is there a link for an online guest book that those of us too far away could sign?

If not My condolences to her family and friends.

only met her once, she was nice to visit with, and personable to all who didn't condescend.

Thom

All,

I never met Helen Corbin, but would have loved to have known her.  I assume that many of you have read her books. 

Here are a few of the things that have been written, just tonight:

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Gentlemen: I have the sad task of announcing the passing of Helen Corbin this Saturday. It appears she had a heartattack. The funeral will be held in Phoenix later this week. The papers will carry an obituary providing additional information. I will pass on the funeral information when I hear from Bob.

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This is sad news. Helen was a significant figure in recording and preserving much of the history and lore of not only the Mountains, but also Alaska. She was also a well-known public speaker in these and other areas. We should all recognize her accomplishments.

Just this last June I had the privilege of sitting in a parlor in Oberschwandorf, Germany talking with a man who fondly remembers the visit years before of Helen and Bob Corbin. He shared not only his recollections, but also a photograph of Helen and Bob and himself. Now I must send him this sad news.

The Dutchman community owes her a lot. I hope that many have the grace to either attend the funeral or if not possible to send cards and flowers. And remember Bob in your prayers. He has lost his life partner.

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It is with a great sadness that I heard of Helen's passing yesterday. She truly was a significant force as an author and a woman. I have many fond memories of Helen, she was a gracious person, strong willed with an iron spirit. My thoughts and prayers go out to Bob and the rest of the Corbin family.

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Helen had many friends here, and Carolyn and I send our heartfelt condolences to you all. Our thoughts and prayers are with Helen and her family.

Joe and Carolyn Ribaudo

im sorry to hear the story