My sell price on silver just went to "n/a"

This is a long article.  But I BELIEVE many parts of it.  Especailly the part about a meltdown of the dollar.  I think it is coming.  It has already been happening for a few YEARS, as shown by the price versus the euro and gold, but I see a capitulation/blow off happening at some point.  Mostly because of the printing of money (See the "M1 money supply" video on youtube by Glenn Beck if you want some truthful but HARSH numbers) and the debt situation.  So I think I am going to HOLD my silver, at ANY price for now, until the meltdown comes.

This article is GREAT reading for those that think we are in trouble because of the printing press mentality here in the USA.

http://johngaltfla.com/blog3/2009/11/18/the-day-the-dollar-died/

Can you imagine if silver were "up $42" in one day?  WOW!.  UNless you read the article, you won't understand why I ask that.  :-)  If that happened, we'd ALL be in a lot of trouble!

I read that a couple days ago. If silver went up $42 in a day I'd be putting the house on lockdown and passing out arms. With somewhat of a smirk.

[Chuck Missler]

If the $ dies, it's going  to $42 is somewhat meaningless, isn't it(?), I'd rather hold Silver than a dead $.

If you know who Chuck Missler is, he points out an interesting event in Germany where his parents were from, said his parents owned a restaurant, sold it about the time of the inflationary crisis in 20's (think it was), said tweenst sale date and closing the money they sold the restaurant for was not enough to buy a meal for them in the same restaurant.

When, not if, the dollars collapses and the U.S. reaches the "Failed State" status, you will see people buying a loaf of bread with wheel barrel filled to the top with dollars. One interesting event is that China keeps the Yuan/dollar at a fixed rate even though the dollar is declining which doesn't help us in the least.  So ultimately I would hold onto any precious metals until a new "Global" currency takes it's place. I'm definitely not an economist or a bigshot investor but I keep up on the latest financial trends and holding on to PM's is the best bet. I wouldn't sell even if silver does get as high as $40.00oz but you can choose your snake-oil $ amount. The reason being is that it is very possible that at some point very soon, $40.00 won't have enough buying power to get ya 2 cubes of sugar. What is important is that gold and silver will retain value and it's buying power will increase and at it's worst, remain the same.  It's not at all advisable to sell your PM's during these types of financial meltdown unless of course you are selling PM's to get PM's i.e. selling silver to buy gold. Hard assets for hard assets is what it's all about in these times.

Good luck.

Modify: If the US is a 'failed state', it is because it has been impoverished by at least two trends: 1) the transfer of US wealth upward to just one percent of the US population which now owns more than 95 percent of the rest of the nation combined; 2) the decline of the US dollar, a trend begun when Richard Nixon eschewed the Bretton-Woods agreement.

Or selling your Silver as some I know personally to survive the present downturn, besides holding it expecting anything is a recipe for disaster- selling on the way up a small portion is wise[er] approach; nobody ever hits the top but plenty ride it to the bottom!

 

This is exactly why I started "collecting" silver.  I have yet to sell any of mine, but will when I get to a point where I feel that I have sufficient reserves of it. 

Well everybody lets just hold on a second here.

In response to scooba steve, here is an article from wikipedia.

In the United States at the end of 2001, 10% of the population owned 71% of the wealth, and the top 1% controlled 38%. On the other hand, the bottom 40% owned less than 1% of the nation's wealth.[18]

In 2003, the 1% with the highest salaries paid more than 34% of the nation's federal income tax; the 10% with the highest salaries paid nearly 66% of the total income tax; the top 25% paid 84% of the income taxes; and the upper 50% accounted for nearly 97% of US income tax revenue, primarily because, as stated above, the bottom 40% had comparatively no wealth (less than 1%) to be taxed in the first place.[19] The US has a progressive tax structure which taxes less for smaller incomes; correlating income taxation to wealth is misleading.

Also, wealth is not taxed in the United States except with estate taxes upon death, so a small amount of wealth has nothing to do with who bears the most income tax. For instance, Warren Buffett has an estimated net worth of $62 billion (2008), ranked one of the richest men in the world. Yet his taxable income is $46 million (2006), about 0.1% of his net worth. And his tax rate is the below-average 17.7% (2006).


Your numbers aren't exactly right, but even then why would that lead to the demise of the U.S.?

I would just like to point out that there are alot of people out there who are making ALOT of money from this fear mongering.  Glenn Beck has gold line as a sponsor for a reason.  All of the advice to buy gold and pm's isn't a public service, they are doing it because they are making money from the public buying pm's.  ALOT of public opinion about the state of our economy in regards to the value is being driven by these private entities that have an end goal of proffiting from the sale and purchase of gold and silver.

I'm not saying that there isn't a problem but maybe everybody should take a step back and realize that we have been printing money like crazy and a double cheeseburger from mcdonalds is still just $1.

While everybody blames the rich [which is true ] dont forget the poor breeding like dogs and other unfunded entitlement programs.Does anyone here remember how they were giving loans to illegal aliens and other "groups" who couldnt afford loans and yet only the rich bankers get blamed.How about the politicians who made the "community reinvestment act" or the people who took the loans being too stupid to know they couldnt afford them.

Well everybody lets just hold on a second here.

In response to scooba steve, here is an article from wikipedia.

In the United States at the end of 2001, 10% of the population owned 71% of the wealth, and the top 1% controlled 38%. On the other hand, the bottom 40% owned less than 1% of the nation's wealth.[18]

In 2003, the 1% with the highest salaries paid more than 34% of the nation's federal income tax; the 10% with the highest salaries paid nearly 66% of the total income tax; the top 25% paid 84% of the income taxes; and the upper 50% accounted for nearly 97% of US income tax revenue, primarily because, as stated above, the bottom 40% had comparatively no wealth (less than 1%) to be taxed in the first place.[19] The US has a progressive tax structure which taxes less for smaller incomes; correlating income taxation to wealth is misleading.

Also, wealth is not taxed in the United States except with estate taxes upon death, so a small amount of wealth has nothing to do with who bears the most income tax. For instance, Warren Buffett has an estimated net worth of $62 billion (2008), ranked one of the richest men in the world. Yet his taxable income is $46 million (2006), about 0.1% of his net worth. And his tax rate is the below-average 17.7% (2006).


Your numbers aren't exactly right, but even then why would that lead to the demise of the U.S.?

I would just like to point out that there are alot of people out there who are making ALOT of money from this fear mongering.  Glenn Beck has gold line as a sponsor for a reason.  All of the advice to buy gold and pm's isn't a public service, they are doing it because they are making money from the public buying pm's.  ALOT of public opinion about the state of our economy in regards to the value is being driven by these private entities that have an end goal of proffiting from the sale and purchase of gold and silver.

I'm not saying that there isn't a problem but maybe everybody should take a step back and realize that we have been printing money like crazy and a double cheeseburger from mcdonalds is still just $1.

Karl Marx's tax system is progressive and he'd love the estate tax too; many farmers who are classified as rich loose everything when they die or should say the family does as the land the biggest asset they had must be sold to pay the estate tax.

As far as owning gold or PM's goes only way you make is to have bought low and sell before everyone else does.

Well everybody lets just hold on a second here.

In response to scooba steve, here is an article from wikipedia.

In the United States at the end of 2001, 10% of the population owned 71% of the wealth, and the top 1% controlled 38%. On the other hand, the bottom 40% owned less than 1% of the nation's wealth.[18]

In 2003, the 1% with the highest salaries paid more than 34% of the nation's federal income tax; the 10% with the highest salaries paid nearly 66% of the total income tax; the top 25% paid 84% of the income taxes; and the upper 50% accounted for nearly 97% of US income tax revenue, primarily because, as stated above, the bottom 40% had comparatively no wealth (less than 1%) to be taxed in the first place.[19] The US has a progressive tax structure which taxes less for smaller incomes; correlating income taxation to wealth is misleading.

Also, wealth is not taxed in the United States except with estate taxes upon death, so a small amount of wealth has nothing to do with who bears the most income tax. For instance, Warren Buffett has an estimated net worth of $62 billion (2008), ranked one of the richest men in the world. Yet his taxable income is $46 million (2006), about 0.1% of his net worth. And his tax rate is the below-average 17.7% (2006).


Your numbers aren't exactly right, but even then why would that lead to the demise of the U.S.?

Fisrt you must take into serious consideration that "Redistribution of Wealth" & "Transfer of Wealth" are 2 totally different subject and in fact in complete opposition to each other.

I would just like to point out that there are alot of people out there who are making ALOT of money from this fear mongering.  Glenn Beck has gold line as a sponsor for a reason.  All of the advice to buy gold and pm's isn't a public service, they are doing it because they are making money from the public buying pm's.  ALOT of public opinion about the state of our economy in regards to the value is being driven by these private entities that have an end goal of proffiting from the sale and purchase of gold and silver.

I'm not saying that there isn't a problem but maybe everybody should take a step back and realize that we have been printing money like crazy and a double cheeseburger from mcdonalds is still just $1.

Who's numbers are incorrect?

Your numbers are spot on but those numbers only matter some of the time but we'll get back to that in a minute.

It's a fact that most of the larger U.S. corporations claim a loss on their taxes make it possible for them to profit and not have to pay taxes like the small business owners. There is a HUGE transfer of wealth to the rich and there has been for quite some time. The difference now is that it is becoming a lot easier to prove. Let's start with taxes since you brought them up. There is a constant shift in who bears the burden of taxes and who stands to profit during tax season. In the early 1990's taxes were raised there was a boom and on a state level taxes increased a significant amount. It was more or less a "regressive tax". This would be a tax that only effects the poor & middle class. For example, the sales tax.  But when it came time to CUT taxes, they did not lower the sales tax but instead cut taxes that fell more heavily on wealthy families. So on a state level, a family that makes $500,000.00 pays less in taxes than a family who makes $40,000.00. This shift is tax burden also happens on the Federal level with taxes implemented by tje Reagan administration when he increased the " payroll tax " (Also a regressive tax) and at the same time the progressive taxes were being decreased. 

Anyone who says that the rich have not riding the broken backs of the poor are seriously mistaken. Contrary to the claims of some conservatives that 40% of Americans pay no taxes, most pay far more than is realized. A guy flipping burgers may even be paying a higher percentage of income in taxes than Warren Buffet.

So then again, I think that your number are only correct some of the time but either way I still see that the wealthy do not pay more taxes in ration to the poor communities of the U.S. And if there is any welfare for the poor it is because it was put into place by the wealthy bankers who stand to profit. It is a fact that the FED and it's cronies profit 3 - 6x for every dollar spent on the welfare funds.

Here are just some of hundreds of ways the rich get richer unfairly.

1. Corporate Welfare - At least 100 billion dollars is taken from all of us taxpayers and handed over to corporations in this country every year. Much of that is then handed out in bonuses to wealthy managers of these companies.

2. Pension Raiding - Wealthy corporate officers raid the pension funds of employees to enrich themselves further.

3. Spreading the Wealth - Both Obama and McCain decided that it would be a good idea to spend $300Billion buy up bad mortgages which meant that the people that did pay their mortgages would also be paying for the rich to be able to pay for their mortgages. Meaning that because I bought a home that i can afford, I now have to help pay for homes that the rich bought which they could not afford.

4. Bailouts Bonuses & Banksters - Need i say more? Of Course. Goldman & Sachs was paid 10Billion in bailout money and they used 6.8 billion to payout in executive bonuses.

5. Tax loopholes - These loopholes are only significant when you are rich.

6. Welfare 4 Millionaire Farmers - Talk to the minimum wage workers about this one. So sad.

7. The Social Security ponzie scheme - about $100 billion annually goes to retirees who make more than the average household income - a huge transfer of wealth from young to old and sometimes from the poor to the wealthy.

8. Preying on Poor Countries - Imagine a scheme to make rich bankers richer while making some of the poorest people of the world poorer, and all at U.S. taxpayer expense. You don't have to imagine it - it has been around for a while.

9. Property Taxes are far worse for the poor - How? The renters usually pay the property taxes for the owners. Not that this is wrong but it's a good example.

10. My favorite! The FEDERAL RESERVE- How do you take billions from the people without them knowing? Print money to loan to their government at interest. This is one of the biggest rip-offs you'll ever read about.

Someone whose financial advise I respect told me something the  other day. If you have a diversified portfolio with say 5-7% PMS then if the price rises then feel free to sell to keep that 5-7% ratio of your net worth. There is nothing wrong with taking profit. But that's all good and fine if you are in good shape financially. I know it's not that easy for everyone. It goes more beyond just keeping your PMS. You need to be trying to get out of any variable interest rate debt asap.

Someone whose financial advise I respect told me something the  other day. If you have a diversified portfolio with say 5-7% PMS then if the price rises then feel free to sell to keep that 5-7% ratio of your net worth. There is nothing wrong with taking profit. But that's all good and fine if you are in good shape financially. I know it's not that easy for everyone. It goes more beyond just keeping your PMS. You need to be trying to get out of any variable interest rate debt asap.

Ask'em what someone who is %90 into PM's and %10 FRN's     . Of course am laughing now, hope am still laughing tomorrow, next week, month, year, ...... . 

Someone whose financial advise I respect told me something the  other day. If you have a diversified portfolio with say 5-7% PMS then if the price rises then feel free to sell to keep that 5-7% ratio of your net worth. There is nothing wrong with taking profit. But that's all good and fine if you are in good shape financially. I know it's not that easy for everyone. It goes more beyond just keeping your PMS. You need to be trying to get out of any variable interest rate debt asap.

Ask'em what someone who is %90 into PM's and %10 FRN's     . Of course am laughing now, hope am still laughing tomorrow, next week, month, year, ...... . 

Yeah I got the PM bug too. But you sacrifice some of that profit to make sure if it the PM market crashes at least you can still sleep a little at night.

Hi all!
I think you guys are making this too difficult. The dollar is losing value simply because the government is producing and spending more physical money than the entire worth of all property and holdings in the United States. If, for example, the entire value of everything in the U.S. is say, 15 Trillion. Make and spend more money than that and the dollar loses face value. Every dollar spent beyond that continues to devalue it. So our wonderful "keepers" in Washington keep finding ways to spend more. Like the marxist Pelosi says, "we need to have everone making the same salary". They are working toward that goal. Everyone will be dirt poor. Unless you have gold and silver to trade. What do you think the real reason is for stopping the dredging in Cali? They want to limit the amount of "future money" you can aquire.

Gilbert

Someone whose financial advise I respect told me something the  other day. If you have a diversified portfolio with say 5-7% PMS then if the price rises then feel free to sell to keep that 5-7% ratio of your net worth. There is nothing wrong with taking profit. But that's all good and fine if you are in good shape financially. I know it's not that easy for everyone. It goes more beyond just keeping your PMS. You need to be trying to get out of any variable interest rate debt asap.

Ask'em what someone who is %90 into PM's and %10 FRN's     . Of course am laughing now, hope am still laughing tomorrow, next week, month, year, ...... . 

Yeah I got the PM bug too. But you sacrifice some of that profit to make sure if it the PM market crashes at least you can still sleep a little at night.

I sleep good, if had Stock in market could NOT, if had investment property & sold used cars like my neighbor could not sleep, I basically have narrowed my life down got rid of ALL non essentials, and I tell you what I sleep real good. If PM's (especially Silver) goes  down, it'll have to go way way down to hurt me most of mine is acquired at face value ya know, but do not figure it will be going down anytime soon way i see things unfolding or should say rather, unraveling. I'm just sitting back   ,and   ,and not sweating the little stuff. Been unemployed for 18 months now and never in my life as relaxed, at peace as am now.

Hi all!
I think you guys are making this too difficult. The dollar is losing value simply because the government is producing and spending more physical money than the entire worth of all property and holdings in the United States. If, for example, the entire value of everything in the U.S. is say, 15 Trillion. Make and spend more money than that and the dollar loses face value. Every dollar spent beyond that continues to devalue it. So our wonderful "keepers" in Washington keep finding ways to spend more. Like the marxist Pelosi says, "we need to have everone making the same salary". They are working toward that goal. Everyone will be dirt poor. Unless you have gold and silver to trade. What do you think the real reason is for stopping the dredging in Cali? They want to limit the amount of "future money" you can aquire.

Gilbert

If we do get to the actual Marxist Police State your PM's won't do you much good really, or if the shelves are empty PM's are not good for food; all PM's do is massage & deceive your psyche. We are moving into a new orb for US, living standards will be much lower, and more will be forced to move from rural areas to cities- it is gonna get interesting in many ways, especially the type of Gov we will have; our Gov is now contracting with foreign mercenary forces to act as internal emergency response and police forces- google "American Police Force" read their bio & who they work for primarily.

By the way google Obama's mentor Saul Olinsky (Obama worked for his org in Chicago for 3 years) the dedication to his book on "community organizing" called "Rules For Radicals", it is dedicated too "rebellion" and "the first rebel who gained his own kingdom, [l]ucifer". We have a Boniface- documented, satanist in White House! I find this very interesting.

So on a state level, a family that makes $500,000.00 pays less in taxes than a family who makes $40,000.00. This shift is tax burden also happens on the Federal level with taxes implemented by tje Reagan administration when he increased the " payroll tax " (Also a regressive tax) and at the same time the progressive taxes were being decreased.  

Anyone who says that the rich have not riding the broken backs of the poor are seriously mistaken. Contrary to the claims of some conservatives that 40% of Americans pay no taxes, most pay far more than is realized. A guy flipping burgers may even be paying a higher percentage of income in taxes than Warren Buffet.

This is such utter nonsense and BS.  I know people in those higher income tax brackets and they pay PLENTY in income taxes.  Even if a corporaton posts a loss, the CEOs, accountants and other employees that work for the company pay their taxes from their SALARIES paid to them by the company.  A company is an entity but is not a person, so even when the company loses on the year, all the employees being paid by the company pay taxes, including the higher ups in said company.

Anyone who has an understanding of the tax code knows who really pays the most in taxes.  

Granted, many wealthy people are able to incorporate a business which allows them to get deductions that Joe Public does not get in a job.  But to say that the wealthy are not paying taxes and the average guy pays it all is simply not true.

As far as the dollar going down and PMs going up, if you can sell your gold or silver for a high $$$$ amount do it!  Why?   Because if you have any DEBT like a mortgage or credit cards you can pay them off.  Even if the dollar goes to zero you still owe the same amount of debt.  So if you can sell an ounce of gold for 100,000 dollars because the dollar drops, do it and pay off your debt.  

Just my opinion.

Jim

[Amos 5:15 Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate:]

A "progressive" tax is NOT a fair tax, and it is platform of Marx[ism], which essentially steals from the wealthy in order to create their vision of equality. Our goal as Americans should be equity ,justice and judgment. Proverbs 1:3 speaks of it and I like too, Amos 5:15  Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate:  The "gate" is essentially the seat government.

First of Jim4silver....great point on paying off debt!

Obediah..."If the $ dies, it's going  to $42 is somewhat meaningless, isn't it(?), I'd rather hold Silver than a dead $."

I think right in a sense here as well. Silver is good to have in a time like this for sure. There has to be an ideal time to sell. I might just sell mine for euros though. Heck I might even move to Spain. Who knows what the future holds.

Golden Silver

[I'm not even going to dignify the above comment with an argument until you come back into the real world.]

So on a state level, a family that makes $500,000.00 pays less in taxes than a family who makes $40,000.00. This shift is tax burden also happens on the Federal level with taxes implemented by tje Reagan administration when he increased the " payroll tax " (Also a regressive tax) and at the same time the progressive taxes were being decreased.  

Anyone who says that the rich have not riding the broken backs of the poor are seriously mistaken. Contrary to the claims of some conservatives that 40% of Americans pay no taxes, most pay far more than is realized. A guy flipping burgers may even be paying a higher percentage of income in taxes than Warren Buffet.

ROFL...You know and understand the 67,024 page tax code? WoW! That is an amazing feat and you have total bragging rights.



This is such utter nonsense and BS.  I know people in those higher income tax brackets and they pay PLENTY in income taxes.  Even if a corporaton posts a loss, the CEOs, accountants and other employees that work for the company pay their taxes from their SALARIES paid to them by the company.  A company is an entity but is not a person, so even when the company loses on the year, all the employees being paid by the company pay taxes, including the higher ups in said company.

I'm not even going to dignify the above comment with an argument until you come back into the real world.

Anyone who has an understanding of the tax code knows who really pays the most in taxes.  

ROFL...You know and understand the 67,024 page tax code? WoW! That is an amazing feat and you have total bragging rights.

Granted, many wealthy people are able to incorporate a business which allows them to get deductions that Joe Public does not get in a job.  But to say that the wealthy are not paying taxes and the average guy pays it all is simply not true.

I never stated that the wealthy don't pay taxes - I was reinforcing my argument that they DO NOT carry the majority of the tax burden.

As far as the dollar going down and PMs going up, if you can sell your gold or silver for a high $$$$ amount do it!  Why?   Because if you have any DEBT like a mortgage or credit cards you can pay them off.  Even if the dollar goes to zero you still owe the same amount of debt.  So if you can sell an ounce of gold for 100,000 dollars because the dollar drops, do it and pay off your debt.  

Good point - but always keep some PM's on reserve.

Just my opinion.

Jim

This is a very interesting post. I'm no economics expert, big time investor,or some seer with a crystal ball.
We do live in interesting times. What the future holds is anyones's guess. History of course provides a clue, as it does tend to repeat itself.
I don't know who pays what for taxes. I know that I pay to much.
As far as PM's go when you can make a profit take it. Invest the profit wisely. Don't create debt. But don't be to quick to pay it off either. If the SHTF the shylocks will be hiding in Paraguay and never get their money anyway.
One cannot possibly be prepared for everything,or worry yourself to death over tomorrow.
There is alot of fear mongering going around. Most of it is motivated by power and greed and is utter nonsense.But then again some is valid. One has to check it out thoroughly to get to the truth.
As for me my only concern at the moment is dumping my clad tomorrow.

HH

Rich

This is a very interesting post. I'm no economics expert, big time investor,or some seer with a crystal ball.
We do live in interesting times. What the future holds is anyones's guess. History of course provides a clue, as it does tend to repeat itself.
I don't know who pays what for taxes. I know that I pay to much.
As far as PM's go when you can make a profit take it. Invest the profit wisely. Don't create debt. But don't be to quick to pay it off either. If the SHTF the shylocks will be hiding in Paraguay and never get their money anyway.
One cannot possibly be prepared for everything,or worry yourself to death over tomorrow.
There is alot of fear mongering going around. Most of it is motivated by power and greed and is utter nonsense.But then again some is valid. One has to check it out thoroughly to get to the truth.
As for me my only concern at the moment is dumping my clad tomorrow.

HH

Rich
[/quote

This is a very interesting post. I'm no economics expert, big time investor,or some seer with a crystal ball.
We do live in interesting times. What the future holds is anyones's guess. History of course provides a clue, as it does tend to repeat itself.
I don't know who pays what for taxes. I know that I pay to much.
As far as PM's go when you can make a profit take it. Invest the profit wisely. Don't create debt. But don't be to quick to pay it off either. If the SHTF the shylocks will be hiding in Paraguay and never get their money anyway.
One cannot possibly be prepared for everything,or worry yourself to death over tomorrow.
There is alot of fear mongering going around. Most of it is motivated by power and greed and is utter nonsense.But then again some is valid. One has to check it out thoroughly to get to the truth.
As for me my only concern at the moment is dumping my clad tomorrow.

HH

Rich

Rich I am in the same boat with you.  Got 3k to dump somewhere.  I know someone will love me for it!

this thread reminds me of matthew 6:27-28

It's not about worrying so much as about preparing.

Being a good steward of what we have, and trying to protect it.  Not bury it in the ground and do nothing with it.


So I"ll hold on to the silver, but my most precious posessions are not silver NOR gold.  ;-)

this thread reminds me of matthew 6:27-28

Definitely - as well as Matthew 6:19 - 24. This whole economic "disaster" thing is certainly a good reminder of the need to keep priorities straight - what is holding priority in your life? What is the source of your power, supply, and security? Some piece of paper? Some shiny rock? Or something greater? I think that a vast majority of this country has given away their power to the dollar, to the government, to "the rich," to gold and silver. All power is sourced from within, these are just symbols.