lets just make up our own rules

this is another case of the catholic church trying to exert control over the masses.
if this is the way they want to execute their will on politics,  then they should have their tax exempt
status revoked

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/11/22/kennedy.abortion/index.html

I respect everybody's religion and they can worship however or whoever they want I guess.  I wonder if the Catholic Church knows how many members they have lost and why.  It used to be a given that pretty much anyone of Hispanic heritage would be Catholic.  My wife is Mexican.  She and her family and many others from Mexico consider themselves more Indian than Spanish.  They also have figured out what the Spanish and the Church did to their ancestors in the past.  I actually do not know many latinos who are Catholics now.  Nothing against their church, and every religion has its dark side.  Course I'm named after two rebels, Robert E. Lee and Martin Luther.

I respect everybody's religion and they can worship however or whoever they want I guess.  I wonder if the Catholic Church knows how many members they have lost and why.  It used to be a given that pretty much anyone of Hispanic heritage would be Catholic.  My wife is Mexican.  She and her family and many others from Mexico consider themselves more Indian than Spanish.  They also have figured out what the Spanish and the Church did to their ancestors in the past.  I actually do not know many latinos who are Catholics now.  Nothing against their church, and every religion has its dark side.  Course I'm named after two rebels, Robert E. Lee and Martin Luther.

well said

here,  here

link says it is forbidden...error.

link says it is forbidden...error.

Same here 

let's try this one

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/11/22/kennedy.abortion/index.html

Not a catholic, and I am not going to try to convert . . . but:

"Then the Pharisees went their way and took counsel together in order to trap him in his speech. So they dispatched to him their disciples, together with party followers of Herod, saying: “Teacher, we know you are truthful and teach the way of God in truth, and you do not care for anybody, for you do not look upon men’s outward appearance. Tell us, therefore, What do you think? Is it lawful to pay head tax to Caesar or not?” 18 But Jesus, knowing their wickedness, said: “Why do YOU put me to the test, hypocrites? Show me the head tax coin.” They brought him a de·nar′i·us.  And he said to them: “Whose image and inscription is this?” They said: “Caesar’s.” Then he said to them: “Pay back, therefore, Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God.” Well, when they heard [that], they marveled, and leaving him they went off. --- Matthew 22:15-22

The key phrase, render to the government what belongs to them, and to GOD what belongs to him. This includes TAXES. They should be taxed if they want to engage in government.

"So they brought them and stood them in the San′he·drin hall. And the high priest questioned them and said: “We positively ordered YOU not to keep teaching upon the basis of this name, and yet, look! YOU have filled Jerusalem with YOUR teaching, and YOU are determined to bring the blood of this man upon us.” In answer Peter and the [other] apostles said: “We must obey God as ruler rather than men." --- Act 5:27-29

The meaning: When man's law conflicts with GOD's law, follow the latter. However, CONSISTENCY is important.

Principles. Either you have them, or you don't. Too often, the Catholic church HASN'T had them. GOD's law doesn't change with any whim of man. The church can't just "pick and choose" what to enforce. This isn't the Obama or Bush government.

Jesus said:
 26While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body."

He did not say...Jew, Catholic, Christian, Buddha, Muslim .....sinner, saint....at the time he knew who would betray him...and still he said "Take and eat; this is my body."

When I told a Catholic Priest this when he refused to give me communion at a Wedding, it shamed him so that he gave me communion. 

[I say let them speak out!]

If we can allow criminals to run the government then we can allow the Church to speak up against the health care crap being shoved down our throats...  They represent a great portion of the citizenry and since nobody listens to the public... I say let them speak out!  The church itself might not pay taxes... but all the catholic PEOPLE do - and they ARE the church!

SOMEONE has to be heard by the government - not just lobbyists, unions, marxists and illegals!

GO CATHOLICS!   

Statement from the article....

 In a statement issued Sunday, Providence Bishop Thomas Tobin said he told Kennedy in February 2007 that it would be "inappropriate" for him to continue receiving the fundamental Catholic sacrament, "and I now ask respectfully that you refrain from doing so."

I am against abortion, but this is silly. Let's not stop there, what about all the folks that drink, smoke, go to strip clubs, look at another woman other than thier wife. I could go on and on, but you get the idea.
 Just cause someone is living in some type of sin, whatever it is, God still accepts you, so why don't the church? Is the church now holier than God? The church is for all of us. I just don't get it anymore. Do they only want a church that is full of saints that do no wrong? Sorry, it ain't gonna happen ! We have all sinned and come short of the glory of God. That includes christians. It did not discriminate in that scripture, it said " we have all sinned.."
 I'm sorry but this gripes me to no end. This is one of the reasons people see christians as hypocrites. I know it's probably not the best example but if they will let a gay man be a priest than what is wrong with letting a man that has a different view upon abortion take communion?
 Hey we let all folks participate in our church services. Red, yellow, black, or white. Strung out on drugs, prostitutes, homeless, gay, lesbian, whatever, it don't matter. We have all types of religion represented here. We have folks from catholics, baptists, methodists, penticostal, whatever thier background, it don't matter.
 God don't care where a person comes from, where they've been, or what they are into at the moment. He still loves each and everyone of us as His own, so why can't the church do the same ?

yep Jim,  the Catholic church has spoken,  loud and clear.
who cares if they have pedophile priests,  deny anything has happened and then try to hide the truth.
I guess they are above the law,  right?

I spect all religions would be great if they weren't run by human beings.  That's the only system we got right now, though.  God talks to me all the time but I pretty much turn my head and go my own way, like most everybody else.  I reckon some day I'll be face to face and given the opportunity to explain my actions, and they will probably fall way short of the glory of God.

I spect all religions would be great if they weren't run by human beings.  That's the only system we got right now, though.  God talks to me all the time but I pretty much turn my head and go my own way, like most everybody else.  I reckon some day I'll be face to face and given the opportunity to explain my actions, and they will probably fall way short of the glory of God.

sittin here drinkin a Corona and also being Catholic i must remind everyone that Satan luvs to see us fight over God and who is right. Just a thought i aint got all the answers.

yep Jim,  the Catholic church has spoken,  loud and clear.
who cares if they have pedophile priests,  deny anything has happened and then try to hide the truth.
I guess they are above the law,  right?

Sniffer... this was not what you first talked about.  Do you want to bash catholics, bash religion, or just disagree with them speaking out?

I'll stick to the first topic - I agree with them speaking out. I wish ALL the religions would speak out against this bill.

Your analogy about the pedophiles is misplaced for this discussion (IMO) and I agree with you that it's egregious.   

Pay for your own abortions - pregnancy is a condition of choice, not a mysterious disease or an accident. 

Is this a supportive political topic, a religious bashing topic or a social commentary?

the catholic church isn't speaking out about the health care bill.  they are preventing a man the right of holy communion
because of his stance on abortion rights.  where in the bible does it say that the church has the right to take that away,
where does the bible say that the church has the right to enforce a penance on anybody for anything?
there are a lot of people in the catholic church that use birth control in some form or another,  that's against the teachings in the catholic church too,  but are they being prevented from partaking in communion rights ?
the only reason they are doing this to him is because of his being in the public eye as a politician

[I agree with you]

the catholic church isn't speaking out about the health care bill.  they are preventing a man the right of holy communion
because of his stance on abortion rights.  where in the bible does it say that the church has the right to take that away,
where does the bible say that the church has the right to enforce a penance on anybody for anything?
there are a lot of people in the catholic church that use birth control in some form or another,  that's against the teachings in the catholic church too,  but are they being prevented from partaking in communion rights ?
the only reason they are doing this to him is because of his being in the public eye as a politician

K... I was reading further down the article and got off track.

I agree with you they have NO business deciding to NOT give Kennedy communion!

In fact... I think every Kennedy needs as much communion as he/she can possibly get!  Maybe he can get some extra to help Ted out... LOL. 

Sorry for the diatribe... looks like "I" was off course.

no problem,  and for the record,  I think a lot of people could do with some more communion and remember what it is for

I belive its any private organazations right  to have that right to accept or reject a member . For any reason that organazation sees fit. They are private organazations.

the catholic church isn't a private organization,  it's a non profit.  unless they want to become a for profit organization.
then they can pay all taxes.
what they are doing is not right,  Jesus did not say, "conform to my teachings or I will punish you"

Supper: "The Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, 'This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.' In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, 'This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me'." [6]

where does it say the catholic church has the right to withhold communion from anybody???

The Catholic Church, just like any Protestant one, is priviate. They may decline to give communion to anyone they like, just like my Methodist Church can. I may not agree on denying Communion, but I do agree that the Catholic Church does have the right to do so.

I personally find it refreshing that any Church stands up for it's doctrines today.
The way I understand it in my Church any one is welcome to come to worship with open arms, but someone who supports sin, and refuses to call it so would not be welcome in the pulpit. Of course a Minister could be Gay or stepping out on his Wife without the conjuration knowing. Both sins according to the New Testament.

The Catholic Church, just like any Protestant one, is priviate. They may decline to give communion to anyone they like, just like my Methodist Church can. I may not agree on denying Communion, but I do agree that the Catholic Church does have the right to do so.

I personally find it refreshing that any Church stands up for it's doctrines today.
The way I understand it in my Church any one is welcome to come to worship with open arms, but someone who supports sin, and refuses to call it so would not be welcome in the pulpit. Of course a Minister could be Gay or stepping out on his Wife without the conjuration knowing. Both sins according to the New Testament.

Can you support witholding of communion with scripture?  that would be like a priest refusing to marry a couple because they were living together...or telling someone they could not come to their church because they had a mental handy cap or were divorced...I have witnessed all of these in a Catholic Church.....when did the church stop trying to help people become better people by teaching God's word and helping them sin less by receiving God's word?  We all fall short and if our lives were placed under a microscope the churches would be empty...How Jesus must be shaking His head.

to take communion one is supposed to be repentant of their bad deeds ( thus sorry for their bad actions -- and honestly willing to try and change ones ways)--the church believes life given by god to man is sacred both of the innocent yet "unborn" child as well as ax murders -- the church is against the "death pen"-- ( life is sacred --peroid)-- simply put the catholic church as a matter of basic religious policy believes that people killing other people is not correct in the sight of god. -- thus any one who openly and publicly supports abortion can not be in the proper state of repentance and is thus not "properly" prepared to recieve communion,

yes the church is flawed , all things made and run by man are flawed -- yes they have done bad things -- but in this case it is their dogma (teachings) that life is sacred and that unless you honestly repent your sins that you are not ready for communion.

communion is not a "right" you earn by just sitting thru a church service -- its supposed to actually "mean" something more than just munching on a wafer and drinking a sip of wine.

to take communion one is supposed to be repentant of their bad deeds ( thus sorry for their bad actions -- and honestly willing to try and change ones ways)--the church believes life given by god to man is sacred both of the innocent yet "unborn" child as well as ax murders -- the church is against the "death pen"-- ( life is sacred --peroid)-- simply put the catholic church as a matter of basic religious policy believes that people killing other people is not correct in the sight of god. -- thus any one who openly and publicly supports abortion can not be in the proper state of repentance and is thus not "properly" prepared to recieve communion,

yes the church is flawed , all things made and run by man are flawed -- yes they have done bad things -- but in this case it is their dogma (teachings) that life is sacred and that unless you honestly repent your sins that you are not ready for communion.

If they truely believed this, they would not simply move the problem from one church to another...they would take that person and let the law deal with them...I believe everyone knows what I am talking about...they would lead by example and show how valued all life is from conception to death.  I needed to come back and say that I am a sinner and fall short each day...I try and be sorry for those commited because I do not try and go out and commit a sin...sometimes they just happen in the course of life.  I try and be a good person...but I do fall short...the reason I was refused communion at a wedding was because I stopped going to a Chatholic Church and started going to a Four Square Church...I called the Father out on it...Where does it say that you can be refused the Body of Christ?

Here is what Scripture would say about it.
 32And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death.

 33And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.

 34Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

 35And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.

 36And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar,

 37And saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself.

 38And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

 39And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

 40But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

 41And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

 42And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

 43And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

true,  you are to be a penitent person.  how penitent are the pedophile priests,  or the Bishops who try to hide the facts?
they receive communion,  and their crimes are against children.

What is communion? It is something we do in remembrance of what Jesus did for us. Where did it come from ? It is an example of the Lord's supper. When He and the disciples broke bread.

 1 Corinthians 1: 27-29

 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthy, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not dscerning the Lord's body.

 People are to examine themselves. It is not up to someone else to judge. "Not discerning the Lord's body" What does that mean, it means the church, the church is the Lord's body. This person has taken it upon himself to not discern the church, to not care about the church. It is each individual's responsibility to examine his or herself before taking the communion. The church is Jesus' bride. He wants a perfect and blameless bride.

 As far as someone only being able to take it that is without sin, well honestly and truthfully, nobody would be taking it. Read about the disciple's lives before this day of communion. They had sin in thier lives. Yet Jesus loved them anyway. Are you letting the sin control you is the question. Do you commit the same thing day in and day out without remorse, knowing that it goes against what God wants for your life? This is when you should not take the communion. But no person should examine your life for you, this is something that is between that individual and God.
 Anyhow, I believe that it is wrong for someone high up in the church to judge and bring condemnation to anyone. Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe that the church as a whole should stand up for it's beliefs. Not just the catholic church however. This is simply religion standing up for thier beliefs. I mean the entire body of Christ. The hand can't function without the arm, can it ? Why aren't other parts of the body doing anything ?

I didnt read the link and really dont care to.  My opinion is that the govt makes no bones about ripping into religion.  Most of the elected DC crowd will use religion against you if it fits their purpose.  I figure if the govt can attack religion, then the religion can return the favor.  That is of course if its not the mulsim religion.  I figure that is the official religion of the U.S.  Good luck finding anyone that mocks christianity willing to mock a muslim.  That would be the religion of peace as said by the current and former presidents to include multitudes of those in congress.  

BTW.....has anyone found the separation of church and state in the constitution yet??  I know the activist supreme court years back says it did.  Its to bad they havnt shown anyone where it is.  

If you don't go to the link,  how do you know what this is even about ??

Under the United States Constitution, the treatment of religion by the government is broken into two clauses: the establishment clause and the free exercise clause. While both are discussed in the context of the separation of church and state, it is more often discussed in regard to whether certain state actions would amount to an impermissible government establishment of religion.

The phrase was also mentioned in an eloquent letter written by President John Tyler on July 10, 1843.[39]

The United States Supreme Court has referenced the separation of church and state metaphor more than 25 times, first in 1878. In Reynolds, the Court denied the free exercise claims of Mormons in the Utah territory who claimed polygamy was an aspect of their religious freedom. The Court used the phrase again by Justice Hugo Black in 1947 in Everson. The term has been used and defended heavily by the Court, but is not unanimously held. In a minority opinion in Wallace v. Jaffree, Justice Rehnquist presented the view that the establishment clause was intended to protect local establishments of religion from federal interference. Justice Scalia has criticized the metaphor as a bulldozer removing religion from American public life.[40]

Obviously its about religion.......translation = dont care what its about.  


So what part or section in the constitution does it reference the separation of church and state?  I happen to have a pocket constitution in my desk at work.  Let me know so I can read it.

BTW, can you explain all the religious symbols to include the ten commandments that are carved all over the outside and inside of the supreme court?  Yes, that includes biblical figures like Moses. 

Moses is depicted on the outside of the Supreme court, along with other historical law givers.

As far as the "seperation of church and state", it is in the First Amendment. However, it is generally ignored that Congress shall make no law when it comes to religion. Many laws have been made as far as religion goes, to include the restriction on stem cell research, and of course tax exempt status for SOME religious organizations.

Why should a christian church get tax exempt status, and not the local palm reader? To me, they are the same thing.

If you don't care what it's about,  than why are you even reading this thread ?


the first amendment does not specifically talk about the separation between church and state.
it refers to the right to exercise your freedom of religion

these are a few inscriptions from buildings and monuments that were built by our founding fathers....should they be distroyed....I think not!  how can we separate something that was set forth to run a country on?
The Washington Monument
From the tallest structure in Washington a message of "Praise be to God" goes forth. Engraved upon the aluminum capstone on the top of this 555-foot monument is Laus Deo. Inside the structure are carved tribute blocks with many Godly messages: "Holiness to the Lord," "Search the Scriptures," "The memory of the just is blessed," and others.
 
The Library of Congress
Within the Great Hall of the Jefferson Building are two cases, one containing a Gutenberg Bible and the other a hand-copied Giant Bible of Mainz. The display of these two Bibles is appropriate because, in the words of President Andrew Jackson, "The Bible is the rock upon which our republic rests." Many biblical inscriptions can be found on the ceiling and walls.
 
In the Main Reading Room are statues and quotes representing fields of knowledge. Moses and Paul represent religion, with the inscription, "What doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy and to walk humbly with thy God?"
 
U.S. Supreme Court smallThe Supreme Court
The biblical foundation of American law is evidenced throughout this building. On the outside East Pediment is a marble relief of Moses holding tablets containing the Ten Commandments. Engraved on the oak doors at the entrance of the Court Chamber are the Roman numerals I through X, and above the heads of the justices is a carved marble relief with a large stone tablet containing I through X (each set of numerals represents ancient law -- that is, the Ten Commandments).
 
The Capitol Building
All of the eight large paintings in the Rotunda present aspects of our Christian history, including The Baptism of Pocahontas and Departure of the Pilgrims from Holland which depicts the Pilgrims observing a day of prayer and fasting.
 
"In God We Trust," our national motto, is inscribed in letters of gold behind the speaker's rostrum in the House Chamber. Also in this chamber, above the central Gallery door, is a marble relief of Moses, the greatest of 23 noted law-givers.
 
The White House
An inscription by the first president to inhabit the White House, John Adams, is cut into the marble facing of the State Dining Room fireplace. It reads: "I pray Heaven to Bestow the Best of Blessings on THIS HOUSE and on All that shall hereafter Inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under this Roof."
 
Many other monuments and buildings in Washington proclaim America's faith in God. On the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier in Arlington National Cemetery is the inscription: "Here rests in honored glory an American soldier known but to God."
 
On the front facade of Union Station three scripture verses are engraved including, "Thou has put all things under his feet" and "The truth shall make you free." Lincoln's words on his memorial exclaim "that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom."
 
This brief tour of our nation's capital reveals that Christianity is the source of America's liberty and prosperity. In the words of the U.S. House of Representatives in 1854: "The great vital element in our system is the belief of our people in the pure doctrines and divine truths of the gospel of Jesus Christ."
 
The inscription on the Liberty Bell reads as follows:

    Proclaim LIBERTY throughout all the Land unto all the Inhabitants thereof Lev. XXV X
    By Order of the ASSEMBLY of the Province of PENSYLVANIA for the State House in Philada
    Pass and Stow
    Philada
    MDCCLIII[4]]]

The source of the inscription is Leviticus 25:10, which reads "And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family."

I am sure there are more.

The Catholic Church, just like any Protestant one, is priviate. They may decline to give communion to anyone they like, just like my Methodist Church can. I may not agree on denying Communion, but I do agree that the Catholic Church does have the right to do so.

I personally find it refreshing that any Church stands up for it's doctrines today.
The way I understand it in my Church any one is welcome to come to worship with open arms, but someone who supports sin, and refuses to call it so would not be welcome in the pulpit. Of course a Minister could be Gay or stepping out on his Wife without the conjuration knowing. Both sins according to the New Testament.

Can you support witholding of communion with scripture?  that would be like a priest refusing to marry a couple because they were living together...or telling someone they could not come to their church because they had a mental handy cap or were divorced...I have witnessed all of these in a Catholic Church.....when did the church stop trying to help people become better people by teaching God's word and helping them sin less by receiving God's word?  We all fall short and if our lives were placed under a microscope the churches would be empty...How Jesus must be shaking His head.

No I cannot. I could stretch Scripture to imply what Jesus's intention was but I cannot stoop to that level. I don't know which thing Jesus would be shaking his head about?? A priest who denys communion to any one, or a self professed Christian who legitimizes sin?? I see it from both sides.

I'd like to share a few words about the so-called Catholic Church. I'll not comment on the precise subject of this thread. But I will say I'm against abortion and I believe it's murder.

The Catholic Church is probably the most hypocritical religious order in the world. Next to them, Islam almost seems clean.

The one thing people should get straight though is this, the so-called Catholic Church is NOT true Christianity. True Christianity is the worship of Jesus Christ as the only way to heaven.

The Catholic Church is a confused mixture of words about Jesus Christ, ancient Babylonian rituals, and the placing of someone called "Mary" (they try to make people believe it's Mary the earthly mother of Jesus) higher than Jesus Christ. 

The Catholic Church since its earliest days (ca. 200 A.D.) has been about money and power over people. From the 2nd to 15th centuries the Catholic Church murdered thousands (millions) of people who dared to disagree with them. They through the Spanish and others killed thousands of Native Americans. The only reason the Catholic Church is more mellow here in America today is because they have no choice.

Now, this is not against all persons who call themselves Catholics. There are many who are nice loving people. I'm referring to the order itself. Many who call themselves Catholics really don't know much about the history of their religious group. They are taught to follow and obey orders, not to think and seriously read the Bible. If they did this many would leave the Catholic Church fast.

There are millions of believers in Jesus Christ in America today and they are not in any way associated with the Catholic Church. Nor have they ever had any connections with any of the non-Catholic radical nut groups out there.

A great lie told today is that all Christian groups are either Catholic or Protestant. The Catholic Church came of corrupt religious people ca. 200 A.D. The Protestant Reformation was simply some coming out of the Catholic Church (partly out). There was and is a 3rd professing group. These are the true believers who never were in the Catholic Church.

These churches are autonomous and each congregation seeks to follow the Bible.  None are violent but as much as possible seek peace. Many in this group are known as "fundamentalists" because they believe in the basic "fundamentals" of the Christian faith. The media ran with this and made all radical nutty religious groups into "fundamentalists."

Today, anytime some religious nut group blows up an abortion clinic or does some act of terrorism, guess who gets blamed? Yep--the "fundamentalists" (Islamic "fundamentalists"). The real "fundamentalist" believers would never even think of doing such a thing. But this is all a part of our governments misinformation campaign.

The Catholic Church, just like any Protestant one, is priviate. They may decline to give communion to anyone they like, just like my Methodist Church can. I may not agree on denying Communion, but I do agree that the Catholic Church does have the right to do so.

I personally find it refreshing that any Church stands up for it's doctrines today.
The way I understand it in my Church any one is welcome to come to worship with open arms, but someone who supports sin, and refuses to call it so would not be welcome in the pulpit. Of course a Minister could be Gay or stepping out on his Wife without the conjuration knowing. Both sins according to the New Testament.

Can you support witholding of communion with scripture?  that would be like a priest refusing to marry a couple because they were living together...or telling someone they could not come to their church because they had a mental handy cap or were divorced...I have witnessed all of these in a Catholic Church.....when did the church stop trying to help people become better people by teaching God's word and helping them sin less by receiving God's word?  We all fall short and if our lives were placed under a microscope the churches would be empty...How Jesus must be shaking His head.

No I cannot. I could stretch Scripture to imply what Jesus's intention was but I cannot stoop to that level. I don't know which thing Jesus would be shaking his head about?? A priest who denys communion to any one, or a self professed Christian who legitimizes sin?? I see it from both sides.

I don't think any Christian would legitimize sin...I would hope that they would understand if it was done unintentionally.  I would hope that the Church that one attends message would be so powerful to help the sinner be repentant and that the power of Communion would help that sinner become a better person who would think about their actions in life and strive to sin less and less.  We can only strive to sin no more....but all of us fall short...there was only one completely inocent man who walked this earth....He spilled His blood to cover our sins...This does not mean that we have a free range just to go around indulging ourselves in every sin we can....

I'd like to share a few words about the so-called Catholic Church. I'll not comment on the precise subject of this thread. But I will say I'm against abortion and I believe it's murder.

The Catholic Church is probably the most hypocritical religious order in the world. Next to them, Islam almost seems clean.

The one thing people should get straight though is this, the so-called Catholic Church is NOT true Christianity. True Christianity is the worship of Jesus Christ as the only way to heaven.

The Catholic Church is a confused mixture of the worship of Jesus Christ, ancient Babylonian rituals, and the placing of Mary on an equal basis with Christ (two Savours). Actually Mary holds a higher place with them.

The Catholic Church since its earliest days (ca. 200 A.D.) has been about money and power over people. From the 2nd to 15th centuries the Catholic Church murdered thousands (millions) of people who dared to disagree with them. They through the Spanish and others killed thousands of Native Americans. The only reason the Catholic Church is more mellow here in America today is because they have no choice.

Now, this is not against all persons who call themselves Catholics. There are many who are nice loving people. I'm referring to the order itself. Many who call themselves Catholics really don't know much about the history of their religious group. They are taught to follow and obey orders, not to think and seriously read the Bible. If they did this many would leave the Catholic Church fast.

There are millions of believers in Jesus Christ in America today and they are not in any way associated with the Catholic Church. Nor have they ever had any connections with any of the non-Catholic radical nut groups out there.

A great lie told today is that all Christian groups are either Catholic or Protestant. The Catholic Church came of corrupt religious people ca. 200 A.D. The Protestant Reformation was simply some coming out of the Catholic Church (partly out). There was and is a 3rd professing group. These are the true believers who never were in the Catholic Church.

These churches are autonomous and each congregation seeks to follow the Bible.  None are violent but as much as possible seek peace. Many in this group are known as "fundamentalists" because they believe in the basic "fundamentals" of the Christian faith. The media ran with this and made all radical nutty religious groups into "fundamentalists."

Today, anytime some religious nut group blows up an abortion clinic or does some act of terrorism, guess who gets blamed? Yep--the "fundamentalists" (Islamic "fundamentalists"). The real "fundamentalist" believers would never even think of doing such a thing. But this is all a part of our governments misinformation campaign.

The number is 168 million. That is the number of Martyrs murdered by the so called church of Christ. That's not the Christ I know. And it's precisely this that we were escaping when we fled to this country. There's the separation of church and state, which was first instituted by...guess who. And they stand for life? Give me a break.

[I agree with you]

the catholic church isn't speaking out about the health care bill.  they are preventing a man the right of holy communion
because of his stance on abortion rights.  where in the bible does it say that the church has the right to take that away,
where does the bible say that the church has the right to enforce a penance on anybody for anything?
there are a lot of people in the catholic church that use birth control in some form or another,  that's against the teachings in the catholic church too,  but are they being prevented from partaking in communion rights ?
the only reason they are doing this to him is because of his being in the public eye as a politician

K... I was reading further down the article and got off track.

I agree with you they have NO business deciding to NOT give Kennedy communion!

In fact... I think every Kennedy needs as much communion as he/she can possibly get!  Maybe he can get some extra to help Ted out... LOL. 

Sorry for the diatribe... looks like "I" was off course.

"In my letter I wrote YOU to quit mixing in company with fornicators, not [meaning] entirely with the fornicators of this world or the greedy persons and extortioners or idolaters. Otherwise, YOU would actually have to get out of the world. But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside, while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.” - 1 Corinthians 5:9-13

Boo-hoo...boo-hoo   


The separation with you claim is not in the first amendment. 

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

So where is the separation you claim is in there??  Sounds like somebody doesnt know their history.  But then again, when one yeilds to the crooked govt education system, what can one expect.

  There really is no such thing as seperation of church and state. Not in the constitution anyway. It was first recognized in this letter from Jefferson...

 Mr. President

To messers Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem & approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more & more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from presenting even occasional performances of devotion presented indeed legally where an Executive is the legal head of a national church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

(signed) Thomas Jefferson
Jan.1.1802.

to not be truely repentant and honestly desiring in ones in ones heart and mind to change ones wrong and sinful ways , anyone of who under takes communion under such "false" conditions only "fools" themselves --- christ will forgive those who are sorry and honestly repentant of their sims and asks for forgivness , wanting change thier bad ways and thus save their souls -- but for the "posers" who just "go thru the motions" of eating a wafer and sipping a bit of wine while not really meaning at all to change their wicked ways -- just keep on repeating their sins and say --see I take communion each week so I'm forgiven -- I eat a wafer each week and sip a bit of wine , so I can do as I please all week -- by doing this each week, I clean my slate  --- pity such a foolish and religiously unknowing person.--

to not be truely repentant and honestly desiring in ones in ones heart and mind to change ones wrong and sinful ways , anyone of who under takes communion under such "false" conditions only "fools" themselves --- christ will forgive those who are sorry and honestly repentant of their sims and asks for forgivness , wanting change thier bad ways and thus save their souls -- but for the "posers" who just "go thru the motions" of eating a wafer and sipping a bit of wine while not really meaning at all to change their wicked ways -- just keep on repeating their sins and say --see I take communion each week so I'm forgiven -- I eat a wafer each week and sip a bit of wine , so I can do as I please all week -- by doing this each week, I clean my slate  --- pity such a foolish and religiously --deleted-- person.--

EXCELLENT!!!  You have it right and the repentance is between the Trinity and the sinner. 

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

So kindly show me where christianity is the official state religion of the United States of America. Some of you lot want to have it both ways. And freedom to practice religion is one thing, freedom to legislate one particular faith on all the rest of us is something else entirely.

As far as "yeilding to the crooked government educational system" what do you suggest? Go back to the days before everyone had access to education? Fine. Keep your children at home then.

As far as "yeilding to the crooked government educational system" what do you suggest? Go back to the days before everyone had access to education? Fine. Keep your children at home then.

Yep, teach them at home, and don't allow the government run "Screwool" system to brainwash them. Teach them how to learn, and let them make their own decisions based on knowledge instead of emotion. Things would have to change for the better.

Instead of a bowl of oatmeal between their ears, give them knowledge. If they are slower than the others, they will be taught to at their level, and likewise if they are faster, they will be taught at their level . . . instead of being mentally crippled by a school system that teaches to the dumbest and most behaviorally challenged, and that teaches them style or appearance or emotion always trumps substance and common sense.

to not be truely repentant and honestly desiring in ones in ones heart and mind to change ones wrong and sinful ways , anyone of who under takes communion under such "false" conditions only "fools" themselves --- christ will forgive those who are sorry and honestly repentant of their sims and asks for forgivness , wanting change thier bad ways and thus save their souls -- but for the "posers" who just "go thru the motions" of eating a wafer and sipping a bit of wine while not really meaning at all to change their wicked ways -- just keep on repeating their sins and say --see I take communion each week so I'm forgiven -- I eat a wafer each week and sip a bit of wine , so I can do as I please all week -- by doing this each week, I clean my slate  --- pity such a foolish and religiously unknowing person.--

Like in the Godfather, rape , torture , pillage and murder, all is forgiven my son,
the church poor box has been moved to the left for greater security.

And is any Christian different with a turnover of sins being constantly forgiven.
It reminds me of composting.

to not be truely repentant and honestly desiring in ones in ones heart and mind to change ones wrong and sinful ways , anyone of who under takes communion under such "false" conditions only "fools" themselves --- christ will forgive those who are sorry and honestly repentant of their sims and asks for forgivness , wanting change thier bad ways and thus save their souls -- but for the "posers" who just "go thru the motions" of eating a wafer and sipping a bit of wine while not really meaning at all to change their wicked ways -- just keep on repeating their sins and say --see I take communion each week so I'm forgiven -- I eat a wafer each week and sip a bit of wine , so I can do as I please all week -- by doing this each week, I clean my slate  --- pity such a foolish and religiously unknowing person.--

Like in the Godfather, rape , torture , pillage and murder, all is forgiven my son,
the church poor box has been moved to the left for greater security.

And is any Christian different with a turnover of sins being constantly forgiven.
It reminds me of composting.

Yes and no. Intentional sins, yes. In fact, intentional sin may not be forgivable. There is one sin which the Bible says cannot be forgiven. It is intentional. Basically, if you know better, and deliberately do wrong, it's too late to ask forgiveness.

Sins due to imperfection, mistakes, are nothing like composting. It's a Christian thing, you wouldn't understand.

So kindly show me where Christianity is the official state religion of the United States of America. Some of you lot want to have it both ways. And freedom to practice religion is one thing, freedom to legislate one particular faith on all the rest of us is something else entirely.

As far as "yeilding to the crooked government educational system" what do you suggest? Go back to the days before everyone had access to education? Fine. Keep your children at home then.

Our nation was founded by Men who had a Judeo Christian ethic. This being said, as far as I am concerned we do not have an Official state religion. Where did you hear that we did Who is legislating religion Agree or disagree, is it not a Priest's discretion to give or not to give communion even if that has political ramifications??? Are you saying a Priest should go against what that Priest believes in his heart because people could infer political messages from what he does or does not do  Is this act legislation I do not think I heard of any vote or bill being passed because of this event. Did you Where are these assumptions coming from

Laws passed about stem cell research, abortion, and gay marriage are all firmly rooted in religion.

Laws passed about stem cell research, abortion, and gay marriage are all firmly rooted in religion.

So is the pledge of allegiance . . .

Laws passed about stem cell research, abortion, and gay marriage are all firmly rooted in religion.

where specifically is this stated or written

let's declare a cease fire for the day!  and just say happy Thanksgiving to everyone no matter what they might believe in!

Ok, thanksgiving day is over, I guess its back to business as usual.

Ok, thanksgiving day is over, I guess its back to business as usual.

LOL  I am so proud of everyone....let the food fight begin..

And I would add, it ain't what goes into your mouth, but what comes out of it.