Huge Cartridge! Any ideas?

[Hey, Does anyone have a clue about this large cartridge I found? It was in the same area with some CW bullets and tent grommets. Thanks in advance, Breezie]

Hey,  Does anyone have a clue about this large cartridge I found?  It was in the same area with some CW bullets and tent grommets.  Thanks in advance, Breezie

I am betting thats a brass shotgun shell maybe a ten guage?I will post a pic of one later.I find them quite often.....even found two stuck together,with gold nuggets inside!!!

Looking at it again....I dont see a primer so maybe not?

It looks like maybe a .58 Allin or Miller cartridge, Tho it looks closer to 70-75 Caliber but the largest reference I Could find was .58.  Its a neat find tho.

I didn't notice at first but there is a hole at the rim. It's possible it is a pin fire shotgun shell. I know they had some that were all brass but am not sure how long  they were. I wasn't really thinking shotgun until I saw Kuger's post but was thinking like cedarat that it had to be a 70 or 75 caliber. Hopefully someone will know.

I don't think that this is a cartridge or shell casing.

The lip at the base is not pronounced enough.
It tapers too gradually..
Centerfires, rimfires and pinfires ALL have a pronounced lip at the base to stop forward movement into the breech when loading, and for extraction.

Edit: pinfires did NOT have a lip or base..

[I think the largest Pinfire shot shell is 13 mm.]

I think the largest Pinfire shot shell is 13 mm. 

[Mmm, that's interesting. So what do you think it is? Would it help to make another pic of it at a different angle?]

I don't think that this is a cartridge or shell casing.Mmm, that's interesting.  So what do you think it is? Would it help to make another pic of it at a different angle?

The lip at the base is not pronounced enough.
It tapers too gradually..
Centerfires, rimfires and pinfires ALL have a pronounced lip at the base to stop forward movement into the breech when loading, and for extraction.

[Mmm, that's interesting. So what do you think it is? Would it help to make another pic of it at a different angle?]

I don't think that this is a cartridge or shell casing.Mmm, that's interesting.  So what do you think it is? Would it help to make another pic of it at a different angle?

The lip at the base is not pronounced enough.
It tapers too gradually..
Centerfires, rimfires and pinfires ALL have a pronounced lip at the base to stop forward movement into the breech when loading, and for extraction.

You know, now that I THINK on it, pinfires used the protrusion for extraction, so there MAY NOT be the lip, might be something to it..

However, that's too big (I THINK, sorry know VERY little of pinfires)

Can you see anything inside?


If it IS a rimfire shell, it would have to have some sort of rim or pronounced lip, pinfires did NOT need this, but I think it's too big for that, so I think it may be something else..

They did have pin fire shotgun shells but I don't think they used them long. I've dug some myself. a friend of mine dug some years ago that were all brass and fairly tall but I don't remember how tall and he isn't around here anymore. He did tell me he thought they were used by guards watching the road gangs.  It is possible that it isn't a shell.

[Here's a pic of the inside; it's not that great because the flash was bouncing around.]

Here's a pic of the inside; it's not that great because the flash was bouncing around.

here's a couple links I found about pin fire shotguns


      www.ruble-enterprises.com/Bronze_pinfire_guns.htm    
      dailygunpictures.blogspot.com/.../continentaldouble-barrel-pinfire-14.html

I wish I could tell you for sure.    I'm going to get off here I just realized how late it is.    I have to get up at 4:30 and then drive 2 hours to the job.   I'll check this again tomorrow.   Night guys

 70-75 Caliber

12 or 10 guage pin fire shotgun shell casing -wag

Signal flare?

DCMatt

I think Matt got it, a flare.  Monty

I think Matt got it, a flare.  Monty

FOR WHAT ITS WORTH I AGREE!

I think Matt got it, a flare.  Monty

FOR WHAT ITS WORTH I AGREE!

The only flare gun used in that area would have been a model 1861, or 1862, and 1863 respectively.  and I don't think that this resembles the "shell"
They weren't 'explosive' projectile launched, you held it aloft as the flare burned.



http://www.hayesotoupalik.com/images/DSCF1447.jpg

http://armscollectors.com/mgs/flare_pistols.htm

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=140366104

(case of the "shells" on bottom of last link..)

As far as I know, this COULD be the end of one of the tubes..

I think you guys are thinking of post 1900 cartridge style flare launchers, (like the Very launcher) and those all resembled a large shotgun shell, with a base lip, and they were centerfire.
This does not have that.

I think it is a metallic tent pole base cover.

To me the base looks too gradually flared for any kind of cartridge. Could it be some kind of container? A match container maybe?

[I certainly appreciate all the ideas. Even though I take detailed photographs, it's still not like actually looking at the item. There is a lip line located right below the ragged edge; I dont' know if this would help or not, but I thought I'd add the comment. Do all of the flare shells look alike, or were there any made of brass? Even though the ones Rando described were for this area, it's possible it was an import from another area. I'm leaning toward DC Matt's idea of flare. Thanks, Breezie]

I certainly appreciate all the ideas.  Even though I take detailed photographs, it's still not like actually looking at the item.  There is a lip line located right below the ragged edge; I dont' know if this would help or not, but I thought I'd add the comment.  Do all of the flare shells look alike, or were there any made of brass?  Even though the ones Rando described were for this area, it's possible it was an import from another area. I'm leaning toward DC Matt's idea of flare. Thanks, Breezie

I agree with Rando even though Monty is on a roll.

[I went through my CW books, plus looked on the Internet and couldn't find an CW tent pole holders. Rando, do you have any pics?]

I agree with Rando even though Monty is on a roll.

I went through my CW books, plus looked on the Internet and couldn't find an CW tent pole holders.  Rando, do you have any pics? 

[I went through my CW books, plus looked on the Internet and couldn't find an CW tent pole holders. Rando, do you have any pics?]

I agree with Rando even though Monty is on a roll.

I went through my CW books, plus looked on the Internet and couldn't find an CW tent pole holders.  Rando, do you have any pics? 

No Breezie, it was just a wild guess.  I can just picture it being a cover cap for something of wood..
I'm not sure why, and it'll probably come to me, but i can't put my finger on it...

My WAG, Brass Bud Vase?..........NGE

[I went through my CW books, plus looked on the Internet and couldn't find an CW tent pole holders. Rando, do you have any pics?]

I agree with Rando even though Monty is on a roll.

I went through my CW books, plus looked on the Internet and couldn't find an CW tent pole holders.  Rando, do you have any pics?  

Sorry Breeze I meant that I agreed with Rando that its not a cartridge or shell.

I don't think that this is a cartridge or shell casing.

But I may be changing my mind after looking at pinfires. Could it be a distorted 12 ga. all brass pinfire?

I leave it at that cos I gotta get up about 3 am myself and drive an hour to the Everglades to work.

The given measurements look to very closely match a 10-gauge pinfire shell.

The given measurements look to very closely match a 10-gauge pinfire shell.

I am no expert, but I have NEVER seen a rimfire or centerfire cartridge like that, and no period flares were launched like the "very Light" or modern flare launchers.

A PINFIRE, I can see, as it lacks the rim that a rimfire or centerfire would require.

And that "gap" on the base MAY be where the "teat" was torn off...

My first thought of it was a lipstick container.

Whatever it is it appears to have suffered a "splosion",!!#2 its bringing a lot of attention!!!

Dang, now I think Bigcy is on a roll!  It sure matches a pinfire shell more than any of the flares I found on the net. OK, so I'm starting anew.  I am now at 50%!  M nty

A 10-gauge pinfire shell should have a base diameter of approximately .775 inches, which it looks like you have there.

I'm withdrawing my signal flare guess and wondering if we need to change direction on this item.

I looked at the "new" pic that was posted and noticed the rim or ridge at the top.  I don't think this is any type of cartridge.



I still don't know what it is but I think we're heading in the wrong direction trying to prove it is a shotgun shell or other type of cartridge.

DCMatt

Maybe the bottom portion of a driving whip socket/holder?



DCMatt