need help identifying a 1 piece eagle button

Hello,

Found this button today and would like to enlist some help in identifying the age and type.  I tried to outline what detail I could see on the front of the button. 

Backmark reads STRONG GILT
24mm in diameter
4.1 grams in weight

Thank you for your help,
Still Waters

Tis could possibly be an official  (diplomatic button) but it's hard to tell. This one would be a good cndidate for peroxide for an houtr or two and a q-tip afterwards. 

Tis could possibly be an official  (diplomatic button) but it's hard to tell. This one would be a good cndidate for peroxide for an houtr or two and a q-tip afterwards. 

Peroxide has given me mixed results before.  i am tempted to try olive oil, but I have never done that method before.  I am open to further suggestions on cleaning, as the photo is taken with minimal cleaning. 
Still Waters

Tis could possibly be an official  (diplomatic button) but it's hard to tell. This one would be a good cndidate for peroxide for an houtr or two and a q-tip afterwards. 

I think I might have found a possibility in the Albert book in the Official and Deplomatic Service section:

OD5 US Official 1-piece

A. The device, an eagle facing right, the motto E PLURIBUS UNUM and 17 stars with ravs above, a small anchor on shield. "Strong/Gilt" rm; 25 mm.  RV 75

B. Similar device without anchor on shield. "Strong/Gilt" rm; 25 mm.  RV 75.

Tis could possibly be an official  (diplomatic button) but it's hard to tell. This one would be a good cndidate for peroxide for an houtr or two and a q-tip afterwards. 

I think I might have found a possibility in the Albert book in the Official and Deplomatic Service section:

OD5 US Official 1-piece

A. The device, an eagle facing right, the motto E PLURIBUS UNUM and 17 stars with ravs above, a small anchor on shield. "Strong/Gilt" rm; 25 mm.  RV 75

B. Similar device without anchor on shield. "Strong/Gilt" rm; 25 mm.  RV 75.

Wow, too cool.  I have never even thought I would dig one of these, but its pretty cool to know I have one now.  The only other question I have is approxamitly what dates were they producing this particular button?

Thank you,
Still Waters

looks like a us regulations staff button

 I haven't looked but I'm thinking diplomatic button too.  It's an early button for sure.   Have you tried a 50/50 mix of lemon juice and water?  That might help but you will have to watch it and not leave it in to long.   Also Aluminum jelly might work on that to. I'm not sure as I haven't used aluminum jelly that much Buckleboy could probably tell you though.

Aluminum jelly will only work wonders on a button if there is gilding left.  It doesn't look like there is any gilding left on this one--so I would suggest the "toothpick method" in my post below.  I use wooden shish kebab skewers, since they are pointed, and I can use them to remove the crud carefully.  I generally clean the high points in the design, so there is contrast between the high points and the background.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,165857.0.html

Best Wishes,



Buckleboy

I hate to be nit picky, but the description says eagle facing right, but it appears that the eagle in question is facing left. A different variety perhaps?

Tis could possibly be an official  (diplomatic button) but it's hard to tell. This one would be a good cndidate for peroxide for an houtr or two and a q-tip afterwards.  

Peroxide has given me mixed results before.  i am tempted to try olive oil, but I have never done that method before.  I am open to further suggestions on cleaning, as the photo is taken with minimal cleaning.  
Still Waters

Firstly lets work out what it is & how rare it is.  When you're happy its not a $1000 button then you can experiment (IMO).
This button looks like it could easily lose detail via cleaning as there is not much left there already.
I think the 50/50 Lemon Juice option (short period), is a good starting point.  Its not too harsh & you can if need be try other options after cleaning & rinsing the juice off.  If you go with olive oil (never been a fan of this), it limits your options after soaking.

Does this help??

Daryl

I hate to be nit picky, but the description says eagle facing right, but it appears that the eagle in question is facing left. A different variety perhaps?

Good point!  I just double checked and the description does say that but I think I was concentrating on the picture associated and I missed it.  Here  are the pics of OD5 A & B:

I hate to be nit picky, but the description says eagle facing right, but it appears that the eagle in question is facing left. A different variety perhaps?

Good point!  I just double checked and the description does say that but I think I was concentrating on the picture associated and I missed it.  Here  are the pics of OD5 A & B:

I may have mixed up my lefts and my rights in the description.  The pictures here look very close to what I am seeing on the button.

bio - Thanks for including that photo.  I do not think it is quite mine, but it is definatly close.  The ones Bramble posted a photo are closer as the eagle takes up nearly the entire button.

Crusader - Thanks for the lemon juice suggestion.  I have never heard of or tried this but its worth a go.  Might try it on a similar button and see how it works.

Thank you,
Still Waters

If you want to try something a little less harsh than lemon juice, I have had real good success lately with simmering stuff in diet coke.  It's a dilute phosphoric acid and I haven't hurt anything yet.  Can't say the same with lemon juice.  If you want to take it real slow, just use a Q-tip and diet coke.

Daryl

here is a picture of the one i was talking about

Looking closer at the button, and the picture, I can now see that the eagle's leg is the same as those photos listed by Bramble.
Still Waters

Looking closer at the button, and the picture, I can now see that the eagle's leg is the same as those photos listed by Bramble.
Still Waters

Ah yes so can I

here is a picture of the one i was talking about

Are those one piece buttons??

the book does not say. i can only guess. and although they appear to be in the photo's, i would think that they are 2 piece. but any education on this matter is welcome for i am a idiot for now....

the book does not say. i can only guess. and although they appear to be in the photo's, i would think that they are 2 piece. but any education on this matter is welcome for i am a idiot for now....

No,more of an "idiot",than me!

The buttons in the pics that traderoftreasure posted are 2 and 3 piece The A's and Engineer buttons are 2 piece While the Staff is 3 pieces. Back, face and rim.  Those buttons date mid 1800's the one piece button you dug is a lot earlier than any of those.  From what I can see in the pics I would say your's is no later than the 1830's or so

The buttons in the pics that traderoftreasure posted are 2 and 3 piece The A's and Engineer buttons are 2 piece While the Staff is 3 pieces. Back, face and rim.  Those buttons date mid 1800's the one piece button you dug is a lot earlier than any of those.  From what I can see in the pics I would say your's is no later than the 1830's or so

Thank you for the knowledge.  The only thing left to figure out with this buttin is the age. 
Still Waters

The buttons in the pics that traderoftreasure posted are 2 and 3 piece The A's and Engineer buttons are 2 piece While the Staff is 3 pieces. Back, face and rim.  Those buttons date mid 1800's the one piece button you dug is a lot earlier than any of those.  From what I can see in the pics I would say your's is no later than the 1830's or so

berdan's sharpshooters wore rubber buttons to avoid glare, and they were marked with goodyear's pattern of 1851..... just for more info

 You're welcome. I've looked again through the books I have an cannot find a button like your's. Can you tell if there are any letters or designs above or below the eagle?  It might be a regimental or organizational button.  The only thing I can tell you for sure is that it is a precivil war period button.  Hopefully someone will find some info on it

here is a picture of the one i was talking about

That is a 3 piece staff button that you posted.  The one that we need to ID is a 1 piece button. 

here is a picture of the one i was talking about

That is a 3 piece staff button that you posted.  The one that we need to ID is a 1 piece button. 

i know that now. i read in my book that the ones i listed was convex?, and i had listed those to show what button it wasn't.

I'm not sure why you guys are ruling out Official diplomatic. The size and the back mark are right for the OD5, and the design seems to fit, (upturned wings, shield position,  one piece, and splayed legs.) I'll stick to my original i.d., official diplomatic unless cleaning shows otherwise.

I'm surely not ruling out a diplomatic button. It could be that as easily as it could be anything else I am leaning toward a diplomatic button myself but allowing for other options as well.

I'm surely not ruling out a diplomatic button. It could be that as easily as it could be anything else I am leaning toward a diplomatic button myself but allowing for other options as well.

Thanks. I don't see any other possible options myself that include all the necessary elements, but maybe one will appear. 

Right now, like you, the only button I see that has the characteristics of the one posted is a dipolmatic button.  It's possible that it is something else that hasn't been ID'd or listed yet ( regimental or organizational, etc)    Like the tinback eagle A button someone posted. It has characteristics of an eagle A but as far as anyone one knows isn't any type of artilley button. It is constructed like a mid 1800's patriotic button. But no one really knows what it is. Hopefully some info will come to light and we can positively ID them both. I just like to keep an open mind.  I feel  like if you look at something without and open mind you miss details that might help you see the truth. This button for example if I were to look at it as a diplomatic button and not think it could be anything else I might miss some detail that would prove other wise.  I hope you can understand what I mean.
I just would green check it yet.

In case I forgot to mention it, this button is not convex at all.  It is a typical 1 piece flat button in design with the eagle features on the front. 
Still Waters

In case I forgot to mention it, this button is not convex at all.  It is a typical 1 piece flat button in design with the eagle features on the front. 
Still Waters

Thanks stillwaters. yes, the diplomatic is flat also. my mistake.

I'm pretty sure I found the same button today. I would like to know if any more info was discovered.

I just saw the pic of the od5a and that is the button I found. First of all thanks to the tn users who allowed this to exist online. Second What is the date and value of this button.

  An "approximate" date can be deduced, based on the button's various charactreistics:
1- the button is a 1-piece "flat button"
2- the button's backmark is "raised" letters
3- the emblem portrays an eagle with "skinny" raised wings, and the motto "E Pluribus Unum"

  That particular version of US Diplomatic Corps button and emblem seems to date from the very-early 1800s ...approximately 1805 to perhaps as late as 1820.  Those buttons were manufactured in England for purchase by the US government because the infant American button-making industry was not yet capable of mass-producing that very-detailed emblem on a brass button.

  Value always depends on three factors:  rarity, condition, and "demand" (meaning, level of collector interest).  The OD-5 buttons are rare, but in excavated condition do not have as much value as non-excavated specimens.  In America, the most-highly-valued buttons are Civil War era Military buttons, because the "demand" for them is high.  Far fewer people collect early-1800s Military buttons ...and even fewer people are interested in buying Diplomat uniform buttons.  That is why Diplomat buttons are not listed in the North/South Trader's Price Guide.  Your best option is to do a websearch to find examples of your OD-5 button that are for sale, or have been sold by an Auction house.