KGC Treasure Leads in Central Texas ?

I am a new member and have been researching a mysterious Brown County, Texas resident who was known to have ridden with Quantrill's Raiders.  My grandmother used to tell me stories about him as we passed his big old farmhouse in the 1960's.  When I read the Brewer book, "Rebel Gold", these memories resurfaced and I realised there was a very good possibility that some of the KGC caches or even a depository may be in this area of central Texas.  The farther I get in my research the better that possibility seems to be.  While I am a veteran metal detector hobbyist, I am quite new at this KGC thing so I am hoping that some members here have some information regarding possible KGC treasures in the Brownwood, Brown County area of Texas.  Brownwood is located 90 miles southeast of Abilene and 140 miles northwest of Austin.  I would certainly appreciate any information you might share with me on this topic. 

Does anyone know of any online websites that show some of the signs and symbols carved on rocks or trees by the KGC ?  I have searched on Google and Ask Jeeves but have not found anything helpful there.  I have read Bob Brewer's book, "Rebel Gold", and it was the most useful source so far. 

floyd manns site might help....i think its   kgcknightofthegoldencircle.com   .......also ancient lost treasures forum has plenty pics posted on kgc symbols/marks.......g

correct gldhntr, ......http://knightsofthegoldencircle-kgc.com/signs.htm

you got it big g..................knew it was something like that.....

Thank you for your ideas.  I have found Floyd to be extremely helpful to me and have also had success on Ancient Lost Treasures message board.  Please keep the suggestions coming as I have located several signs and symbols here in central Texas, that I believe are treasure-related, but have yet to be able to identify them.

post some good close up photos and we will see if we can help out more.....if its one thing we love here its pictures of trees and rocks..........gldhntr

Hi gldhntr.  I have discovered many symbols carved in rock but I only sketched most of them as I didn't have my digital cam with me then.  I did photograph one of the most interesting ones, which I will try to post here, but it is nearly impossible to see the detailed carvings.  I made another trip to this rock and outlined the carvings in chalk but I have not uploaded the outlined photo on to my computer yet.  The carvings show a cross in the center of the rock (the center of the cross is just above the brown spot of moss near the center of the rock), 2 short vertical lines in the lower right-hand quadrant, a very small and intricate small unenclosed circle in the lower left-hand quadrant, and a larger unenclosed circle in the upper right-hand quadrant.  The carvings are obviously very old and time-worn.  I first discovered this carved rock about 20 years ago and remembered it when my enthusiasm was re-fired by Brewer's book, "Rebel Gold", and so it took me and 2 friends quite a while to find it again. 
Texas Jay

My research into the mystery surrounding the life and death of Bloody Bill Anderson of Quantrill's Guerrillas has led me in many directions so I have created a new group where those interested in Civil War history as it pertains to Bloody Bill's story can share our thoughts, facts, and hopefully can learn the truth which has been lost over the past century and a half.  You can join our group by going here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery 
~Jay~

     Texas Jay,   I hope the rock hasn't been moved and direction lost? I'f I was to find those marks on a rock, I'd take it to mean. =
     Follow the long shaft of the cross for direction.   The small circle to mean a hole.   And the two vertical lines to be distance. What unit of distance?
     But they didn't have M/Ds when it was buried, For there to be a marked stone there like that likely there was, if it hasn't already been removed? So I'd take a M/D and work out from the stone the way the long arm of the cross is pointing for a good distance and see if I couldn't get lucky. Have a good time!

Hi Monk and Doc.  I have made a couple more trips to the site of the carved rock in photo.  Since this particular area, where the rock is, was well-travelled by Spanish, Indians, and many others over the centuries, I really don't believe this carved rock has anything to do with the KGC.  It is apparent that this rock was carved many, many years ago as it has been worn by rain and the elements but, the best I can tell, is that it has not been moved.  Just a short distance, maybe 10 or 12 feet from the top of the rock, I found a larger rock, mostly buried, that had been chisselled out in a curved shape to a depth of about 10 inches.  Someone had dug the dirt from this hole and it was piled, perhaps years ago, beside the rock.  I have photographed it as well but still have not unloaded my digital camera.  It is with the clear picture of the carved rock with the signs outlined in chalk to make it much easier to read.  I have been very busy with other projects lately but will post the new pics here when I have time.
~Jay~

Hi Doc.  Thank you for posting the results of your research on the KGC.  I apologize for not replying sooner but we had a terrible hailstorm here in Brownwood last night.  Some of the hailstones were the size of tennis balls and my little, formerly pretty, Toyota Corolla looks like it was attacked by a madman with a hammer!  Luckily, unlike some of my neighbors, my windshields were spared but my Mom's roof, nearby, was torn up by the storm.  Initially, it was Brewer's book that got my juices flowing regarding possible treasure sites in my area of central Texas.  Visiting some new areas and re-visiting some old ones, that I had discovered several years ago, has not revealed any signs or symbols known (or at least to my knowledge) as KGC signs.  I am not ruling that possibility out, however, but it is the search that is the most fun to me so it really doesn't matter if any treasure I may find is KGC or not.  Like most of us, I could sure use some extra money these days so finding any size treasure is worthwhile to me.  Here in central Texas, it is rattlesnake season so that will prohibit me from doing a lot of exploring until late fall but I am using this time to metal detect in yards and parks and to negotiate permission to hunt and recover some of the "bigger" treasures that I hope to find on private property. 
~Jay~

I finally transferred the photo of the carved rock, pictured in an earlier message, this time with the markings made more visible using white chalk.  There is the cross in the center, 2 verticle lines in the lower right quadrant, a disconnected small circle in the lower left quadrant, and a large disconnected circle? in the upper right.  While I don't believe this rock is KGC-related, it is in an area that is known to have been frequented by Spanish, a huge Indian population, Texas Rangers and others travelling through the area.  Since it is in a heavily-populated rattlesnake area, I will not be going there again until the weather gets cold.

    Hooked up north!try this one.           
          www.knightsofthegoldencircle.net
                                   
                         Good Luck
                                   Jerry

thanks for the link jerry

Yes, thank you Jerry.  I will read this book as soon as I can find time away from my research into Bloody Bill Anderson and my spring and summer detecting projects.  The author is known for his expertise in the field of treasure hunting and I am sure this book will be very educational.
~Jay~

heidi ho Texas Jay,

Was the man's last name Dean or first name Dan?

Hi cdhtexas.  Thanks for replying to my message.  I don't think I ever made it clear who the mysterious man was that my grandmother Longley told me about.  He was Colonel William C. Anderson otherwise known as Bloody Bill Anderson.  It turns out he was the father of my great uncle Storm Anderson.  I invite you to join my research group where we have accumulated more information on this famous guerrilla leader than anyone has done before. 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery 

~Jay~

This is the Summary of Purposes that I posted, in our Yahoo group, as a guideline for our important investigation into the controversial life and death of Bloody Bill Anderson.

***

Bloody Bill Anderson

Summary of Purposes

I began this investigation in the spring of 2006. My goal was to
learn if Bloody Bill Anderson died as a result of a Union ambush in
October, 1864 near Orrick, Missouri or if he escaped, returned to
Texas, and settled at Salt Creek in Brown County in frontier central
Texas as William C. Anderson. To recruit interested people to help
with this ongoing research, I created a Yahoo group called Bloody
Bill Anderson Mystery. I am convinced that Colonel William C.
Anderson of Brown County, Texas was Bloody Bill Anderson of
Quantrill's Guerrillas. Our group's job is to now prove that Colonel
Anderson was Bloody Bill to the historical community. To keep our
investigation headed in an orderly and productive direction toward
the ultimate proof, DNA analysis, I am proposing an outline to guide
our efforts - Summary of Purposes.

1. Bloody Bill Anderson's genealogical background. Since
traditional historians, in over 140 years, have failed to adequately
document Bloody Bill's family, any serious investigation into the
life of this important Southern leader must strive to correct the
sketchy and contradictory family tree of this heroic man. We need to
discover and document several important facts concerning his original
family.
a. We will attempt to reveal the most basic things about Bloody
Bill's parents that historians have failed to substantiate until
now. This includes the full names of the parents, how they died, and
where they died.
b. We will attempt to also determine the full names of Bill's
paternal and maternal grandparents. This step should be as far back,
into Bloody Bill Anderson's family, that we need to go in order to
create an accurate family tree from which we will ultimately locate
verifiable relatives from which we can screen and choose candidates
for DNA testing that will prove our case.
c. Traditional historians have done a pitiful job of even
determining, for certain, who Bloody Bill's siblings were. We will
attempt to determine who these brothers and sisters were, how many
children each had, where, how, and when they died and where they were
buried.
2. Historians Dr. Richard S. Brownlee and Shelby Foote referred to
Bloody Bill Anderson as "William C. Anderson" which exactly matches
the name of Colonel William C. Anderson of Brown County, Texas. We
will attempt to determine what documents these respected
historians/writers used to determine his name. Prior to these men's
books, published in the late 1950's and early 1960's, I have found
none that give a middle initial for this important man.
3. We will carefully examine and document Bloody Bill Anderson's
life up until late October of 1864 when the ambush occurred.
a. Study Bill's early years before his involvement in the Civil
War.
b. Examine important war-time events that influenced Anderson's
life. These will include his joining Quantrill's Guerrillas, the
1863 Kansas City jail collapse that killed his beloved sister
Josephine, the 1863 Lawrence Raid, the Battle of Centralia in
September 1864, and the highly controversial October 27, 1864 Ambush
that traditionalists claim killed Bloody Bill Anderson. We will
question the authenticity and origin of every piece of "evidence"
that traditionalist historians/writers have claimed, these many
decades, were taken from the guerrilla, the Yankees claimed was
Bloody Bill Anderson, who was riding Bill Anderson's horse that day
of the ambush.
4. Chronicle Bill Anderson's arrival in Texas after October 1964.
a. Search for letters, diaries, public documents, or other written
accounts of Bill Anderson after the Civil War.
b. Seek to locate Bloody Bill Anderson's relatives who may have
moved to the same area of frontier Texas where Anderson settled.
5. Identify Bloody Bill Anderson's close confidantes that knew of
his Civil War past before he publicly announced his true identity in
1924 to newspaperman Henry C. Fuller.
6. Study the underground Confederate government, the Knights of the
Golden Circle.
a. Examine the KGC's role and members in early-day Brown County
and Brownwood, Texas.
b. Research Colonel William C. Anderson's involvement with this
highly secretive group.
7. Identify as many of Colonel William C. Anderson's direct
descendants as possible.
a. Conduct and record interviews with every living direct
descendant.
b. Seek to locate public documents, photographs, diaries, letters,
Bibles, and any other written documents that shed light on Bloody
Bill Anderson.
c. Compile a family tree for Colonel Anderson with contact
information for the living and locations of burial and other
pertinent information for the deceased.
8. Participate on all Internet websites where the life and death of
Bloody Bill Anderson is discussed.
a. Ask tough questions about the many contradictory statements
that traditionalist historians/writers have made about Bloody Bill.
b. Require those who believe Bloody Bill Anderson was killed in
1864 to PROVE the origins, authenticity, and validity of every piece
of information, every photograph, and every item from they claimed
were taken from the ambushed guerrilla's body and Anderson's horse
after the October 1864 ambush.
c. Promote our group on all historical and genealogical websites
you participate on. Always keep in mind that we will need interested
and credentialed professionals, from numerous fields, to donate their
time and expertise to our investigation as we move forward. You can
use our group's Invite feature to personally invite people to join us
in this worthy research.
9. Document and record as much as possible information about Colonel
William C. Anderson's life after the Civil War.
a. Determine who Bill Anderson's closest associates were during
the 60 years he lived in Brown County, Texas.
b. Document important events in Brown County and Brownwood history
and learn the parts Colonel Anderson played in these events.
c. Examine Bill Anderson's participation with Jesse James and
other significant people after the Civil War.
10. Conduct and encourage DNA tests to prove, once and for all time,
that Colonel William C. Anderson was Bloody Bill Anderson.
a. Compile a list of as many relatives of the historically-
accepted Bloody Bill Anderson as possible.
b. List as many confirmed living descendants of Brown County's
William C. Anderson as possible.
c. Screen willing descendants and verify that they are legitimate
bloodline relatives. There will be absolutely no room for error in
this crucial phase of our investigation.
d. Locate, contact and persuade the responsible government
agencies and credentialed historical organizations to conduct an
exhumation of the grave, at Richmond, Missouri, and strongly
encourage them to prove or disprove the traditionalists' belief that
the grave contains the body of "Capt. William T. Anderson".

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

Here is a list of some of the books I have completely read during
this investigation. While reading them, I have taken extensive
notes, both handwritten and Xerox, and I have posted much of this
noted information in our Messages Archives for our members' use. To
retrieve and read these excerpts, members are encouraged to type in
either the book's full title or the author's full name in the
Messages Search box located at the top of our group's messages list
on our homepage:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

***

1) "Wildwood Boys" by James Carlos Blake, novel based on historical
facts, hardcover published in 2000 by William Morrow, an imprint of
HarperCollins Publishers Inc., paperback published in 2001 by
Perennial, an imprint of HarperCollins Publishers.

2) "Rebel Gold" by Warren Getler and Bob Brewer, previously
published as "Shadow of the Sentinel", copyright @ 2003, Simon &
Schuster, Inc., paperback published in 2005.

3) "Frontier's Generation" by Tevis Clyde Smith (Sr.), published by
the author, Brownwood, Texas, Greenwood Press, 1931, First
Edition, "Price 50 Cents".

4) "From The Memories of Men" by T.C. Smith, Jr., 1954.

5) "Jesse James Was One of His Names" by Del Schrader and Jesse
James III, online version
http://bwcpublishing.com/names/names.html

6) "Brown's Henry Ford" by Lex Johnston, Great Grandson of Henry
Ford, included in "In The Life And Lives of Brown County People",
published by The Brown County Historical Society.

7) "The Story of Cole Younger by Himself", Introduction by Marley
Brant, originally published 1903, re-published in 2000 by Minnesota
Historical Society.

"Branded as Rebels", compiled by Joanne Chiles Eakin & Donald R.
Hale, 1993.

9) "INSIDE WAR - The Guerrilla Conflict in Missouri During the
American Civil War" by Michael Fellman, Oxford University Press, 1989.

10) "The Blue And The Gray" by Henry Steele Commager, 1982, (Two
Volumes in One).

11) "Jesse James Was His Name" or, "Fact And Fiction Concerning The
Careers of The Notorious James Brothers of Missouri" by William A.
Settle, Jr., 1966, Columbia, Missouri, University of Missouri Press.

12) "Reminiscences of one who suffered in the lost cause" by Charles
Hewitt Hance, published 1915.

13) "Quantrill And The Border Wars" by William Elsey Connelley,
Pageant Book Company, New York, 1956, originally published 1909.

14) "Civil War on the Missouri-Kansas Border" by Donald L. Gilmore,
2006, Pelican Publishing Company.

15) "The Civil War Story of Bloody Bill Anderson" by Larry Wood,
2003, Published by Eakin Press - Austin, Texas.

16) "Quantrill and his civil war guerrillas" by Carl W. Breihan,
1959.

17) "Bloody Bill Anderson - The Short, Savage Life of a Civil War
Guerrilla by Albert Castel & Thomas Goodrich.

18) "Three Years With Quantrill" by John McCorkle.

19) "A Dynasty of Western Outlaws" by Paul I. Wellman, University of
Nebraska Press - Lincoln and London, 1961, Reprinted Bison Book, 1986.

20) "The Killer Legions of Quantrill" by Carl W. Breihan, Hangman
Press As Presented By Superior Publishing Company, Seattle,
Washington, 1971, First Edition.

21) "Noted Guerrillas" or "The Warfare on the Border" by John N.
Edwards, Press of Morningside Bookshop, 1976, originally printed 1877.

22) "In The Life And Lives Of Brown County People" Books Nos Ten,
Eleven, and Nineteen, published by the Brown County Historical
Society.

23) "The Nice and Nasty in Brown County" by Ruth Griffin Spence,
1988.

24) "Something About Brown" by T.R. Havins, 1958, Banner Printing
Company, Brownwood, Texas.

25) "Freemasonry in Brownwood" by Donovan Duncan Tidwell, 1966.

26) "McInnis Funeral Home Records Brownwood, (Brown County) Texas
1910-1942" compiled by Hazel Ellis Wetzel, 1985.

27) "The Promised Land" by James C. White.

***

~Jay~


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

I have recently learned of the KGC and am reading "Rebel Gold".
Have also learned that the KGC had a "castle" in LaGrange TX. in Fayette Co.
Most of my family is from this area and some served in Waul's Legion.
Fayette Co. is adjacent to Washington Co. mentioned in another post.
I plan to keep looking intoKGC activities in this area.

Hi Ron.  Thank you for your interesting reply.  Our investigation has proven that Brown County and the town of Brownwood were a safe haven for former Guerrillas, KGC members, and Confederates who either refused to take the Oath of Allegiance after the War or were hiding from Federals for other reasons.  Most, if not all, of our area political leaders were Knights of the Golden Circle.  I am attaching a photo I took of our old Brown County Jail which was authorized to be built during Bloody Bill Anderson's comrade and confidant in Brown County Henry Ford's term as County Clerk.  You will see that this beautiful old building was built to resemble the KGC castles out west.
~Jay~
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

Good photo Jay,
   Found a book titled "Jesse James, Last Rebel of the Civil War" by T. J. Stiles
Although the KGC are mentioned only once in passing, It puts JJ in the  context of a confederate partisan rather than a bank robber. I'll read this on after I finish "rebel Gold".

Thank you, Ron.  If it weren't for "Rebel Gold", I would still know next to nothing about the KGC.  I have re-read it completely 3 times now and am always looking in it for more information about various topics as our investigation continues.  One other book that I found very educational was "Noted Guerrillas or The Warfare on the Border" by John N. Edwards.  It was originally published in 1877 and then republished in 1976.  While this book is very informative, it mentions other writings of Edwards that I believe will cover the KGC and the Guerrillas in much more detail.  These other books apparently have never been reprinted since they were published originally some years after the Civil War.  They are:

"Shelby and His Men": or, " War in the West"

"Shelby's Expedition to Mexico: An Unwritten Leaf of the War", 1872.

Both these books were written by John N. Edwards.  Both are also said to be, by Albert Castel, "as rare as they are expensive."  If anyone knows of any online versions of either or both of these important books, please reply to this message and let us know.

~Jay~
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery     

Here is an interesting article about some former Guerrillas who visited Brownwood in central Texas that I first posted at my Yahoo group listed below.

***

I urge our members to read this account carefully as it documents
several visits to Brownwood by Frank & Jesse James and Cole Younger.
This story relates to Comanche County, Oklahoma and not to Brown
County, Texas' adjoining Comanche County.
~Jay~



****

http://www.rootsweb.com/~okcomanc/pioneers/deancsalyer.html

***

Comanche County Pioneers
Interview with Dean C. Salyer
Lawton, Comanche County Oklahoma
July 23, 1913 - October 31, 1973
(Dean was married to my father's sister, Ethel Burnett)
Sharon Burnett-Crawford
Jesse James's Two Million Dollar Treasure
Dean C. Salyer, of Lawton, first visited Oklahoma more than 25 yrs
ago with the goal of finding the lost treasure of Jesse James. He has
periodically sought the $180,000 he believes to be hidden in the
rocks not far from Cutthroat Gap, in far northwest corner of Comanche
County.
Salyer, a tree surgeon, a former cowboy, and a treasurer hunter is
another who came into personal contact with an aging member of the
outlaw band, but far away from the Wichita Mountains.
I haven't found anything, but I haven't given up looking, even
thought I've slowed down a mite. One thing I know, Jesse and Frank
James buried one hundred and eighty thousand dollars in those hills.
Make no mistake about that.
You might wonder how I came to know all this. It was all from an old
outlaw in Brownwood, Texas - that's where I'm from originally - who
was a good friend to Jesse and Frank. Even after Frank was acquitted
of his crimes, he used to come down to Brownwood just to talk over
old times with this man, whom I knew as Conley. I imagine they talked
over buried treasure, too, although Conley never admitted as much.
During the depression Salyer worked as a cook, carpenter, farmer,
cowboy, or in any other job he could find. During that time he met
the aged Conley. Conley and his family were hungry. Salyer asked no
questions and slipped Conley a ten dollar bill. Over the months a
great friendship developed. Salyer recalled with fond memories
visiting Conley for hours at a time, listening to him tell of his
strange past.
Conley spoke often of outlaws, but it was a long time before he said
just who the outlaws were. He was more of a lookout man for Jesse as
I gathered it. At first I didn't think to much of his story. But, you
know, he talked like he must have been there. And, too, he had a
cowhide map which he said was one of only three copies.
Salyer and Conley talked often of making a trip to the Wichita
Mountains to reclaim the treasure that Conley knew had been buried -
that is, if Frank hadn't recovered it himself, and Conley had his
reasons for believing that he had not.
Before the old man and I could make the trip, Conley died, but before
he died, he gave me his directions and let me look at the map. The
old outlaw told Salyer that the gold was hidden in a sealed cave. A
natural stone corral known to the outlaws as Horse Thief Corral, a
log cabin in Cutthroat Gap, and a Winchester rifle mounted in the
fork of a tree were the signs leading to the hidden cave.
It was years before Salyer moved from Brownwood to Oklahoma, and it
was several years more before he made his first trip to the Wichitas.
Finally in the 1950's, he enlisted the aid of J.B. "Burt" Holderbaum,
an old prospector left over from the gold rush days and together they
rediscovered the old stone corral in the shadow of Cutthroat Gap, a
valley into the mountains from the north that had earned its title
more than a century before in 1883 when Osages massacred their Kiowa
neighbors and placed their severed heads in brass buckets. Holderbaum
was one of the few living persons who knew the location of the rock
pen.
At first even Holderbaum had trouble locating the outlaw lair, but he
knew that it was on level ground at the bast of Mount Pinchot, the
highest peak in the Wichitas, although it does not appear to be. An
old trail ran past the corral, but the animals inside were hidden
from view, Holderbaum remembered. In one corner of the corral stood
the rotten stumps of two trees that had once served as gateposts.
Holderbaum recalled having served as gateposts. Holderbaum recalled
having been shown the corral in 1901. At that time a rock fortress
said to have been used by outlaws was still visible about two miles
north. Its breastwork was constructed from boulders stacked in a
large circle on top of a lone hill, which in 1901 had but one lone
cedar growing on it. It had been some time before that Holderbaum
found a rust eaten rifle hanging in an oak tree just west of the
makeshift fortress.
The cabin in Cutthroat Gap was a clue that I could never forget. A
bandit queen once lived in the cabin. She apparently purchased the
food and supplies for the outlaw bunch. Old Conley often mentioned
her, always with a smile.
At the summit of Mount Pinchot a long, black streak plunges twenty
feet down a bluff.
The black streak is a sign too. The gold is between the streak and
the hanging rifle, if Conley didn't err in his directions. My
partners and I searched continuously for six weeks during one spell.
We looked every day except Sundays but had no luck in finding
anything more than the corral, fortress, and ruins of the cabin. The
180,000 was part of a payroll robbery at Dodge City as I remember.
Every since early boyhood in Brownwood, Texas, Salyer had heard tales
of a prominent banker there who was believed to be the real Jesse
James but who went under the name Colonel Henry Ford. But there is no
record that Ford ever admitted such or even pretended to be James.
However, even today, old residents of Brownwood will swear that Ford
was indeed Jesse, for he had no other reason to keep a mysterious
trunk in his house under lock and key. Too, many residents believed
the legend because both Frank James and Cole Younger made trips to
Brownwood to see Ford, and Frank's sister, Susan, and brother-in-law,
Allan Parmer, lived nearby, just outside El Dorado.
Ford first appeared at Brownwood in 1870's, later served as its mayor
and then as president of the Coggin Brothers and Ford Bank. It is
possible that Ford was a member of Quantrill's guerrillas or even one
of the original outlaws who rode with Jesse. Whoever he was, Frank
and Cole had a lot to talk over with him after the turn of the
century.
Salyer regrets that he and Conley never made their trip to the
Wichitas before Conley died. But at that time it seemed impossible.
Occasionally Salyer still pokes around in the shadow of Cutthroat
Gap.
Frank James recovered some of the loot. Joe Hunter unearthed some of
the treasure that Frank had failed to find. The clues have been to
many to dismiss as legend, the brass bucket with the outlaw contract,
the silver watch, the graves, the gold bracelets, the copper sheet
with its secret code, and of course the maps, to old and perhaps to
cryptic for anyone to read now. Yet treasure seekers still dig in
lonely canyons, scan out of the way pinnacles and explore musty
smelling caves in quest of Jesse James's two million dollar treasure,
secreted in the Wichita Mountains at a time when those hills harbored
some of the deadliest outlaws of the west.
Frank himself is said to have once revealed that the treasure was
buried alongside the old Chisholm Trail between Fort Sill and the
Keechi Hills. It must still await some lucky finder, one who can
break its secret code and follow th long trail that Frank James rode
hard enough to wear out six horses.
Pioneers Home
Comanche County OKGenWeb
County Coordinator:
Margie Etter
Co-Coordinator
Sharon Burnett Crawford
This Page Last Updated Friday, 21-Nov-2003 13:33:37 MST

****

~Jay~
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery - We have been studying the KGC since before it was the popular thing to do.

Thanks for posting! Great reading!

Cavers5

   YEP!   From my research... Texas was a HOTBED of KGC "activities";   here is an INTERESTING web-site of what pp in OK have found... http://www.outlawtreasure.worldbreak.com/photo3.html   ;) (SUNNY out...).   

Here is an important message I just posted for our Bloody Bill Anderson Mystery members and want to share it with my friends here:

***

Okay, members, I must confess.  I have been holding a BIG secret from you and the American public for nearly two years now.  Before I even started this group, I came into possession of a copy of the original article written by Brownwood Banner-Bulletin newspaperman Henry C. Fuller as it appeared in the August 24, 1924 issue of the San Antonio Express newspaper which was based on his interviews with our William C. Anderson of Salt Creek, Brown County, Texas.  This article had never been tampered with or filled with traditionalist propaganda as many later articles were.  Only the story as told by Bill Anderson without the various "witness accounts" from people who were not even alive during the Civil War.
Several weeks ago, I brought this copy to Gene Deason, the Editor of the Brownwood Bulletin, explained to him what our group has been doing for the past two years, invited him to join us which he did, and, after doing his own extensive research into this complex subject, he agreed to write an article to accompany that of Henry C. Fuller. 
The resulting article is very accurate and historically important and it appears in today's special "Horizons 2008" issue of the Brownwood Bulletin - Sunday, February 24, 2008 - nearly 84 years from the time that Bloody Bill Anderson revealed the truth about himself to another fine Bulletin reporter.
In a show of appreciation for their magnificent coverage of our group's work, I will not transcibe that original article on this message board or on any other Internet website nor will it appear in the Bulletin's online version so everyone who wants to read it and save it for its collectors value will have to order their own copy from:

Brownwood Bulletin Circulation Department
(325)641-3107

Total cost for this issue shipped to you should be around $7.00 because of its larger than usual size.  Please don't miss out on this opportunity as it deals a death blow to our enemies. 
~Jay~


***

~Jay~
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

From: "Jesse James and the Lost Cause" by Jesse Lee James, published
by Pageant Press, New York, 1961, page 14.

While J. Frank Dalton made one insignificant error about the date of
Henry Ford's death in Brownwood, it was actually in 1910 and not
1913, the gist of his statement on Henry Ford is very significant as
it affirms that Henry Ford was indeed a KGC member when he relates
about the tattoo on Ford's right forearm. The Smokescreen Gang has
been busy spreading the lie that Henry Ford and Bloody Bill Anderson
did not have a close friendship despite the facts that anyone who has
studied these men and their lives or has interviewed descendants of
Colonel Anderson who were alive when he died in 1927 knows beyond any
doubt that these men served together as guerrillas and later worked
closely together in Brown County's and Brownwood's early years to
make this area a safe haven for unreconstructed Confederates,
Guerrillas, and their families as well as for other citizens of this
county.

***

"Why, do you know, some experts had me die at Brownwood, Texas, along
about 1913, some such year. I wasn't there either. But my kin and
my loyal friends let it ride, and never let on any differently. Just
because the dead man going by the name of Ford happened to have a
certain tattoo on his right forearm like many of us had, they once
again presumed Jesse Woodson James died, and at Brownwood, Texas.
The same tattoo on Jim Sears' right forearm was the cause of another
rumor that I had died not far from Florence, Colorado, near Wetmore,
Colorado," said JWJ. "That tattoo was on the right forearm of each
and every member of the Inner & Outer Circle as well as upon the arm
of each and every official of the International-Anti-Horse-Thief
Association, of the old bunch.
"The tattoo was a thin ribbon affair with the letters...'Tex-Y-S', in
light blue ink, and tinged with red coloring; just a small,
insignificant narrow tattoo on the right, inside forearm," explained
old JWJ, with a grin.
"Jesse R. James had this same tattoo, and also a red heart tattoo on
his same forearm. I don't know why he had that heart inked onto his
arm any more than you might know. I do know it's there though, and
so do you," laughed JWJ.
I attended my own funeral. I sang in my own funeral choir. I acted
as one of my own pall-bearers, believe it or not!" chuckled JWJ.

***

~Jay~

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

Here is a photo I took recently of a tree located in the city limits of Brownwood in central Texas.  A local friend tipped me off to it and refers to it as "The Eye of The Needle" tree.  There is a Hoot Owl tree less than 20 yards away from it.

Texas Jay
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery - we have dozens more KGC-related photos in our group's Photos section which is for members only.

Rare Bloody Bill Anderson postcard surfaces !  I just found this rare old photograph that confirms what our research group has proven - that William C. Anderson of Salt Creek, Brown County, Texas was the one and only Bloody Bill Anderson of Quantrill's Guerrillas.  I invite all of you to join our group where we have been covering the KGC for over 3 years.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

~Texas Jay

   YO!   When you find "old" pictures like that... be "mindful" that "poses" MAY represent something... review the pics in HBB's books, of HIS family members.    (Ie., the "hat" on his head does not look "real").  ALSO, he is looking at the fireplace, which appears to have "writings" on it... and his fingers on his left hand looks like he is giving a "homeboy sign"... DUNNO.  

okay jay...i ran across a bit of my quantrill info...posted links below..should keep you busy a day or so...............there is a bit of family info on anderson in a few of the articles ,,,,,,,,,,,,as soon as i locate the rest of my links i will post them for you/your group.............gldhntr



general info on group with a couple diaries............

http://www.lib.usm.edu/~archives/m243.htm


http://www4.pair.com/justfolk/Diary24.htm

http://www.archive.org/stream/quant...quantrillborderw00connuoft_djvu.txt

http://www.kancoll.org/galbks.htm

http://www.potterflats.com/suemundy.html

http://asp6new.alexanderstreet.com/...rest+or+imprisonment&pagePos=11

http://thelibrary.springfield.misso...ist/periodicals/wrv/V3/N7/Sp69b.htm

http://www.wattshaysletters.com/let...etters-61-65/hist-letters61-65.html

http://www.kclibrary.org/kchistory/...arfare-civil-war-selected-resources

http://www.kancoll.org/khq/1941/41_3_caldwell.htm


http://www.civilwarstlouis.com/History2/casteljayhawking.htm

http://whmc.umsystem.edu/invent/desc-soccust.html

http://www.tshaonline.org/shqonline/apager.php?vol=096&pag=559.

http://cdm.sos.mo.gov/cdm4/document...ivilwar&CISOPTR=1808&REC=12


9. Diamond Springs, Morris county, Kansas, was a well-known stage and relief station during the years of the great movement along the Santa Fe trail. The settlement, composed of several large two-story stone buildings and a stone corral, was built upon the site of a spring that had been known by the Indians and plains animals long before its discovery by the white man. Santa Fe traders camped upon the spot as early as 1804. The buildings, corral and sheds were the most pretentious of the kind between Council Grove and Santa Fe. The place was the scene of several encounters between Indians and whites and in May, 1863, was raided by Dick Yeager, one of Quantrill's officers, and a band of Missourians. The raiders murdered inhabitants, burned and destroyed property and left a scene of desolation and destruction. -- Kansas Historical Collections, v. 14, pp. 794-800.


http://www.geocities.com/quantrill_raiders/   bones


member info on group with several different member lists..



http://www.kansasheritage.org/research/quantrill.html

http://members.tripod.com/~Penningtons/roster.htm

http://www.familychronicle.com/quantrill.html

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....com/~dwoody/mccorkle/quantrill.htm

http://www.couchgenweb.com/civilwar/quantril.htm

http://www.rulen.com/partisan/roster.htm

scv quantrills raiders camp #2087
http://quantrillsraidersscvcamp.homestead.com/

william clarke quantrill society
http://americanhistory.about.com/gi...3A//www.geocities.com/quantrillsoc/


http://www.historynet.com/the-james...g-and-their-circle-of-friends.htm/3


Albert E. Castel, Thomas Goodrich, Bloody Bill Anderson: The Short, Savage Life of a Civil War Guerilla

Edward E. Leslie, The Devil Knows How To Ride: The True Story of William Clarke Quantrill and his Confederate Raiders

"Southron Guerillas: William "Bloody Bill" Anderson (http://www.geocities.com/mosouthron/partisans/Anderson.html)

"Quantrill" (http://www.crimelibrary.com?gangsters_outlaws/outlaws/james/3.html

http://www.kclibrary.org/kchistory/...-border-warfare-and-civil-war-books


book for sale {not by me} that might be of interest  ''the encyclopedia of quantrill's guerrillas''..supposed to be the longest list of members ? yet
http://www.geocities.com/outlaw72532/techie.html


hall brothers info below...for more research,  barbourville, knox county kentucky, and ben hur, lee county virginia {where the secret society charged with keeping the county completly Southern and free of yankees/slaves did such a good job that even today you will be hard pressed to find either during the day and no way to locate one after dark..kin were members........rebel flags still fly at most of the churches there............in this research you will find much info on the moody listed in the raider rolls as the hall/moody families were very close with several marriages between them...a couple of the moodys can still be heard burning up the fiddle/banjo on bluegrass radio.......
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb...ry.com/~jrbakerjr/missouri/hall.htm

raiders pictures...........
http://www.footnote.com/page/1089_quantrells_raiders/

artifacts here...
http://www.oread.ku.edu/Oread98/OreadMay8/page1/libraries.html



some reunion pics here
http://www.whitsett-wall.com/Whitsett/whitsett_simeon_photos.htm

pence pictures.....
http://www.pipeline.com/~richardpence/outlaws.htm

older info
http://www.genealogyimagesofhistory.com/q.htm

reunion photos
http://www.rulen.com/partisan/reunion1.htm

Rebel - KGC & gldhntr:
Thanks, Rebel, for the excellent suggestion.  I am well aware of the importance of the details in these older photographs of KGC men but it is one that all people interested in the subject to be aware of.
gldhntr, thank you so much for providing all of these excellent sources.  I will quote your message with these links on our Bloody Bill Anderson Mystery message board so some of our 132 members can begin following up on them.
~ Texas Jay
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

Here is a website with some excellent photos of two carved rocks which were located in Comanche County, Texas, adjacent to Brown County where I live.

From:
http://www.texfiles.com/spiderrocks/pt2.htm

~Texas Jay

Since starting this thread over three years ago, I have spent a lot of time studying the rock and tree carvings and other signs and symbols I've found in the central Texas area and will devote even more time to this work this fall and winter.  My hunting partner and I have already been out several times this fall doing field work and locating even more carvings and signs.  We seem to learn more every day that passes about the meanings of these signs.  Thanks to this thread, I have been contacted by some of the most respected and knowledgeable people in the treasure hunting community and they have helped me immensely.  I've made some trusted friendships also that no amount of money could buy.  After posting my last post on this thread, I went ahead and purchased a copy of Steve Wilson's book "The Spider Rock Treasure: A Texas Mystery of Lost Spanish Gold".  This book is amazing and, although I am only half-way through it, I find it very difficult to put down but I must in order to get anything accomplished.     Oh yes, and for the naysayers, I already know what you are going to say about this book before you even type it.  All I can say is that you don't have a clue about it unless you have read it or at least started to read it so save your breath with the critiques as I won't reply to you anyway.  The story centers around an area near Clyde, Texas which is only about 70 or so miles north of where I live. 
~Texas Jay
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

   TJ, the ANCIENT LOST TREASURES on YuKu.com has a NICE KGC "sub-board"
with LOTS relating to TEXAS KGC.   Haven't been there in awhile, tho.    BTW, that "pic" looks like the "4 CORNERS"... with FOCUS on New Mexico & Colorado...  

Hi Rebel.  Thanks for reminding me about ancientlosttreasures.  I've been a member there for a few years but, like you, I haven't visited in a while.  I'll check in there soon.  Rebel, if you will contact me via private email, I'll update you on what we've determined since I posted the photo of the large directional rock.
~Texas Jay
jay_longley@yahoo.com

[surrounding]

Rebel,  I zoomed that picture postcard and the hat is real; you can see it's shadow on the wall behind the man.  Also, the way he's holding his left hand might be a sign, but it TOO could be that he's simply holding a cigarette.  In the zoomed view, there appears to be the end of a handrolled cig on the palm side of the fingers. 

Texas Jay,  years ago I read a story that had JJ and Frank bringing a muletrain of gold up from Mexico through Texas.  Some referenced that to the Maximillion / Montezuma Treasure.  Anyway, one story has them burying the goods somewhere in the central area of Texas.  Another version has them bringing the booty on up into the Indian Territory and burying it anywhere from the Red River on up to the top end of the Wichita Mountains.

While I was living in the OKC area back in the 1980s, there was as story in  The Daily Oklahoman about how treasure hunters were still trying to get into the Cut Throat Gap area to look for the treasures supposed hidden there.  It pointed out that the land surrounding that area was privately owned and the land owners were real tired of those people fooling around on their land; cutting fences, digging holes that their cattle could break a leg in, etc.  Also, much if not all of the Wichita Mountains are Wildlife Preserves and / or owned by the Ft. Sill Army base.   What's the latest on this situation?   

Hi Shortstack.  According to Bill Anderson's youngest son Pat (Patrick Henry Anderson), who lived with his father at the time this photograph was taken (1924), Bill Anderson didn't smoke.  He did drink some and also loved to bet on horse races.  Pat said that when his father would take him to the races, his pockets were always bulging with silver dollars.  A bit out of the ordinary for a central Texas farmer in that day.   
Regarding the Maximillian treasure, I have been interested in that since my younger days, way before I even knew there was such an organization called the Knights of the Golden Circle.  Years ago, I was following up on some information I had found in some treasure publication (I still have it somewhere but don't ask me where) and was searching for a large rock with a huge "M" carved in it.  It was supposed to mark the nearby location of this enormous treasure.  I was working on the version you mention about it being somewhere in central Texas, not too far from Brown County, Texas, but have yet to locate the marker rock.  I haven't kept up with the Oklahoma versions so I can't update you on that.     
Thanks for the excellent information and questions.
~Texas Jay
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

I just remembered one more legend about JJ and that big load of booty.  I know that you've heard about the cave with the iron door stories.  Well, one of the theories is that JJ and Frank hid their goods in a cave and stole a door off of a railroad box car and cemented it into the cave opening, somewhere in the Wichita Mountains.  It seems that several people have accidentally found that door.  For some reason it's always been while they were lost;  either while hunting, hiking, or travelling cross-country by foot.  One or two of the folks have been pretty reliable folks as far as truth telling is concerned. 

Also, didn't Frank James buy a small ranch in southwester Oklahoma?  The story is that he did that so he could keep looking for that big cache that JJ hid.  Now, if Frank had been involved with the hiding of his and JJ's big booty load, then, why couldn't he remember where it was?  I mean, it wasn't THAT long after the "hide", that he got out of prison and could look.  Could the area have changed THAT much? 


I wonder if you could use Google to get low enough to look for that rock with the "M".

Yes, Shortstack, I believe Frank James did buy a place in Oklahoma.  I'll go through our Bloody Bill group's Messages Archives and try to locate some information about it.  Frank James was acquited of the charges against him in 1882 and never did go to prison.  Cole Younger, on the other hand, did several years and after his release went into a Wild West Show with Frank James.  Here is a quote from Cole Younger's autobiography.

From: "The Story of Cole Younger by Himself"

***

"The 'Cole Younger and Frank James' Historical Wild West Show' is an
effort on the part of two men whose exploits have been more wildly
exaggerated, perhaps, than those of any other men living, to make an
honest living and demonstrate to the people of America that they are
not as black as they have been painted.
There will be nothing in the Wild West show to which an exception can
be taken, and it is my purpose, as a part owner in the show, and I
have put in the contracts with my partners, that no crookedness nor
rowdyism will be permitted by attaches of the show. We will assist
the local authorities, too, in ridding the show of the sort of camp-
followers who frequently make traveling shows the scapegoat for their
misdoings. We propose to have our show efficiently and honestly
policed, to give the people the worth of their money, and to give an
entertainment that will show the frontiersman of my early manhood as
he was.
I had hoped if my pardon had been made unconditional, to earn a
livelihood on the lecture platform. I had prepared a lecture which I
do think would not have harmed anyone, while it might have impressed
a valuable lesson on those who took it to heart.
I give it herewith under the title, 'What My Life Has Taught Me'..."
***

Frank James's ranch was apparently at Fletcher, Oklahoma.

~Texas Jay

I have read that Frank would go out riding on long trips around the area of OK where his ranch was located.  There is a much better chance that he was looking for that last big bank haul he and JJ took.  Something like $180 thousand plus.  That fits better than his supposedly looking for an iron door thingy.    

   What if... "the $ 180 thousand plus" WAS behind the "iron door thingy"?  Sounds like a STORM DOOR/CELLAR. 

Hi Rebel and Shortstack.  From the little I know about this particular treasure hunt, I tend to agree with Shortstack that Frank was most likely looking for the bank loot but the possibility Rebel raises is an interesting one to think about.  Does anyone know how much of the $180,000 was in gold? 
~Texas Jay

The iron door cave was in the Wichita Mountains.  His rides were supposedly not long enough to have gotten that far away from his ranch area.  He was known to ride out in one direction, but return from another;  as if he was making large sweeps of the area.  Some  folks thought that he was looking for some type of landform monument that he needed to locate in order to zero in on a cache spot.   I've read various speculator's ideas in treasure magazines.  Some of the BETTER articles are found in the Old West and Wild West magazines.  The best historical writer that I've found is a man named Glenn Shirley.  He has written numerous books and mag articles on western history and was a regular columnist for Old West.  Mr. Shirley is the researcher who put the"lie" to the idea that Belle Starr was as Bandit Queen;  when, in fact, she was just a camp hanger-on.  She was passed around by some of the outlaws she followed.  She was thrilled to be around "bad" men and was never a gang leader.  The old dime novel writers, reinforced by Hollyweird movies, are responsible for the false history.   Mr. Shirley was a serious researcher who went way beyond the normal in finding the facts about his subject.  You  can "carry it to the bank" on anything he publishes.

 I agree with you ,Shortstack . Bumpass was usualy more profitable than being a robber . What's a poor robber gonna spend it on once he gets it ?
 Jim

    Yeah, and they usually didn't get away with enough to buy anything more than a $2 blanket warmer. 
KVM has written that the amount of a robbery went up each time the story was told.

  Yeah, and they usually didn't get away with enough to buy anything more than a $2 blanket warmer. 
KVM has written that the amount of a robbery went up each time the story was told.

Why , Hell Yes ! The robber wanted to be a big man with a big score and the victims wished to appear as having been more affluent than they really were .
 Freight companies , on the other hand , tended to downplay their losses so as not to encourage more
robberies .

  Hmmmm... the "pic" in post # 12, looks like the "FOUR CORNERS" in SW USA.   A "VAULT" in New Mexico, MAYBE a cave in Colorado; NOTHING seen for ARIZONA, nor UTAH... MAYBE, the "clues"  for Arizona & Utah, will be found on a "similar" CROSS-like "sign"  around there; DUNNO.  

Hmmmm... the "pic" in post # 12, looks like the "FOUR CORNERS" in SW USA.   A "VAULT" in New Mexico, MAYBE a cave in Colorado; NOTHING seen for ARIZONA, nor UTAH... MAYBE, the "clues"  for Arizona & Utah, will be found on a "similar" CROSS-like "sign"  around there; DUNNO.  

Hi Rebel.  I discovered this large rock here in central Texas over 20 years ago.  Once I learned about the KGC, my partner and I returned to the area several times before we finally relocated it.  It took a few more trips and viewing it from different directions to finally get the sun just right on it so that it could be determined to be a very old marker for the "U.S.G.S." - United States Geological Survey.  As I am sure you know, the KGC were said to have infiltrated such government positions after the Civil War ended.  Acting on some tips from some well-known treasure hunters, we worked out from this rock and located some other carvings and important signs that we had overlooked previously.  My partner and I plan to do a lot more work in the area as soon as the weather turns cold and the rattlesnakes and copperheads take a long nap. 
~Texas Jay 

   Good idea to wait... gonna wait until Nov./Dec./Jan. to "get out -in-the field", myself.
I'm focusing on OLD "mountain roads", in the mountains of Bedford County, and "points" WEST & NORTH, along the James River.    ONE thing I remember reading about KGC
maps & "waybills", is that SOMETIMES, they are for other states.  In terms of NEW MEXICO... Santa Fe, on that mountain; are there tunnels under Santa Fe?   That "VAULT" looks like a tunnel.   In terms of COLORADO... I hear the words ICE CAVE, and even "see" it in words.  Is there an ICE CAVE in Colorado, NORTH of Santa Fe?     ANYWAY, seems to be on an "old trail" or something.
 

Hi Rebel.  My partner and I are resuming our searches of other possible KGC sites in central Texas now but these don't have many high weeds, cacti, or lots of rocks and boulders where the snakes can hide.  We are both very cautious and always on the alert even in these places.  Heavy rainfall this month has been our biggest hindrance and has delayed some of our work a few times already but we simply postpone those hunts for better days.  Other sites require considerable travel so we have to plan for that too.  I'm so enthusiastic about what we have found so far that, if it were reasonable and safe, I'd be out in the field every day.   
~Texas Jay
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery   

Newest web page about Bloody Bill Anderson.  No opinions, comments, criticism, or analysis, only the facts as presented by Bloody Bill Anderson to Henry C. Fuller in 1924.

http://bloodybillanderson.webs.com/

~Texas Jay

Newest web page about Bloody Bill Anderson.  No opinions, comments, criticism, or analysis, only the facts as presented by Bloody Bill Anderson to Henry C. Fuller in 1924.

http://bloodybillanderson.webs.com/

~Texas Jay

Are you eluding that Bill Anderson was alive in 1924...or Fuller published something in regards to Anderson in 1924    :icon_scratch:

Stop being so lazy, SWR, and just click on the web page link and read it for yourself.  I'm not "eluding" anything.  The web page does not include any opinions of mine, comments or criticizms from anyone else, only the facts as reported to Henry C. Fuller by William C. "Bloody Bill" Anderson at his Salt Creek home in 1924.
~Texas Jay

http://bloodybillanderson.webs.com/

Correction, SWR: facts from 1924 when the article appeared in newspapers and magazines all across the country.  Henry C. Fuller was not a conspiracy or fiction writer but was a well-respected newspaperman and author of old west history.  While I had heard of this article's existence all of my life, I was the first person to ever transcribe a copy onto the Internet in 2006.  This single historical article refutes every fictitious claim that Brown County's William C. Anderson was the son of Stone County, Missouri's William M. Anderson, Sr. family and, as such, could not have been the Guerrilla leader known as Bloody Bill Anderson.  His father and mother were William C. and Martha Anderson.  I can prove that Bill Anderson was a Knight of the Golden Circle and have done so for our group's members but have no need to prove it to you or anyone who is not a member of our Bloody Bill Anderson Mystery group.
~Texas Jay

The bottom line is that you are quoting our group's most ardent paid enemies who are known as the "Smokescreen Gang".  Dozens of our members have thoroughly investigated Bloody Bill Anderson for over 4 years now and we have proven that William C. Anderson was the one and only Bloody Bill Anderson of Quantrill's Guerrillas.  I hope you don't expect me to argue each of this discredited gang's points over again on this forum because I will not.  I will say this and that is that, yes, the Smokescreen Gang does stalk me everywhere I go on the Net.  Why don't you quote the name or names of the people you quote in your message, SWR?  Are you afraid that I will reply with the truth about each and every one of them?  We've not only thoroughly investigated Bloody Bill Anderson but we've also investigated each member of this gang of liars.
~Texas Jay
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

Hey, Jay:
   I see SWR is still dividing his time between naaaaaaaaaay saying on YOUR threads and naaaaaaaay saying on the Long Range detectors threads, with stop offs in the Rubber Room.  A few days ago, I took him off "Ignore"  and read some of his latest posts and DANG.  He's STILL writing the same, old negative crap.  Soooooo, I put him back into exile.  With his tired negative viewpoints,  he must be bipolar and off his meds.      I mean, no HEALTHY person is ALWAYS negative. 

    OHHHHHH, welllllll. 

Hey, Jay:
   I see SWR is still dividing his time between naaaaaaaaaay saying on YOUR threads and naaaaaaaay saying on the Long Range detectors threads, with stop offs in the Rubber Room.  A few days ago, I took him off "Ignore"  and read some of his latest posts and DANG.  He's STILL writing the same, old negative crap.  Soooooo, I put him back into exile.  With his tired negative viewpoints,  he must be bipolar and off his meds.      I mean, no HEALTHY person is ALWAYS negative. 

    OHHHHHH, welllllll. 

Hi Shortstack.  Yes, it seems that SWR is the sole remaining mouthpiece, on this forum, for the disproven traditionalist Bloody Bill Anderson myth.  ha.  He must not be in the Smokescreen Gang's Inner Circle.  I'm joining you in putting him "into exile".  Since he failed to name the sources of his latest rampage directed at me, he must be scared of them and knows that I will let all the cats out of the bag regarding that discredited bunch.   
~Texas Jay

Jay:

    Isn't the reason the group you are butting heads with is "known" as the
"Smokescreen Gang" is because you named them that?  And you always say
your enemies are "paid."  Would you mind explaining who pays people to
contradict your "theory?"
   It really is a "theory" that several CW era organizations, the particular one
most famous, the Knights of the Goldern Circle, laid down elaborate hidden
vaults or crypts filled with enormous riches not only in the South but all over
the US.  To accept this as nothing more than theory until a valid recovery of
very substantial wealth is made public is the rational viewpoint.
   For instance, the "Beale Code" is a very popular legend, without merit, that
many folks swear by.  However dissecting the original thesis reveals the yarn is
bogus.  Yet because of the allure of cracking a code the core document is nearly
forgotten.
   The "speculation" surrounding the KGC obscures a faulty premise.  The actual
organization did have lofty ideals but in the end failed miserably in it's goals.
To assume and promulgate an unproven theory of fantastic unlocked store-
houses of vast wealth to groups of optimistic followers without proof is un-
sustainable.
   You will recall a recent undoing of an obsessionist claiming to have found a
KGC "vault."  His defenders were legion.  The cuckoo alarms were sounded and
trashed by supporters.  The saga eventually found fewer and fewer recruits
and discussion went offline.  Then a brief echo of delusion.  It was very sad.
I hope you don't end up like that, Jay Longley.

Point very well spoken!

lastleg, your reply does not even warrant a response except when you say:

"...The saga eventually found fewer and fewer recruits
and discussion went offline.  Then a brief echo of delusion.  It was very sad.
I hope you don't end up like that, Jay Longley..." 

I hope you are not threatening me, lastleg, as that is a very stupid thing to do.
~Texas Jay

   Exactly.  If you are experiencing paranoid fantasies I suggest professional
therapy.  I merely asked you a couple questions and since you choose not to
answer I guess we are done.

lastleg, you are obviously "out of the loop" so you will now join SWR "in exile".   

~Texas Jay

Jay:

    Isn't the reason the group you are butting heads with is "known" as the
"Smokescreen Gang" is because you named them that?  And you always say
your enemies are "paid."  Would you mind explaining who pays people to
contradict your "theory?"
   It really is a "theory" that several CW era organizations, the particular one
most famous, the Knights of the Goldern Circle, laid down elaborate hidden
vaults or crypts filled with enormous riches not only in the South but all over
the US.  To accept this as nothing more than theory until a valid recovery of
very substantial wealth is made public is the rational viewpoint.
   For instance, the "Beale Code" is a very popular legend, without merit, that
many folks swear by.  However dissecting the original thesis reveals the yarn is
bogus.  Yet because of the allure of cracking a code the core document is nearly
forgotten.
   The "speculation" surrounding the KGC obscures a faulty premise.  The actual
organization did have lofty ideals but in the end failed miserably in it's goals.
To assume and promulgate an unproven theory of fantastic unlocked store-
houses of vast wealth to groups of optimistic followers without proof is un-
sustainable.
   You will recall a recent undoing of an obsessionist claiming to have found a
KGC "vault."  His defenders were legion.  The cuckoo alarms were sounded and
trashed by supporters.  The saga eventually found fewer and fewer recruits
and discussion went offline.  Then a brief echo of delusion.  It was very sad.
I hope you don't end up like that, Jay Longley.

Hi, SWR, I'm not sure we ever exchanged messages directly. I just thought I'd say you were not alone. I'm still around......unpaid, too, and laughing every time I see someone use "Smokescreen Gang."

 An old map just was found over at the Portal to Texas History of Brown County from 1863, published by the GLO. It has been known for years that William Columbus Anderson paid taxes in Brown County in 1863 because it was recorded by the Henry Ford Mr. Longley says was one of William Columbus Anderson's closest friends in Mr. Ford's Cotton Calculators. Those were little booklets he used as ads for his bank. He'd record information for farmers and would include bits and pieces of county history. Well, the county map I mention shows where the land is that he was taxed on for 1863.

There is so much information about my great uncle and his life that finding the map to back up Mr. Ford's claims is almost anti-climatic but it is a good piece of history and evidence of his life. It supports what his family in Missouri have said all along, Dr. Don Newbury's article which he wrote about Uncle Bill's home when it was 95 years old, tax records, birth records, census records.........etc. No fantasy. And, I am willing to discuss all the items and not hide behind some pretext not to do so.

By the way, the second arrow points to Israel Clements' land, who was William Columbus Anderson's brother-in-law. Israel had been in Brown County about 5 years with this map was drawn. Harriet Anderson Clements's sister Martha married her first cousin, William Columbus Anderson. Martha was raised in Georgia and William in Missouri. Martha and Harriet's father was Moses Guest Anderson, who had been in Brown County a bit before William arrived in 1863. William's father, William M. Anderson and Moses Guest Anderson were brothers.

Sir, I enjoy your posts.

Sincerely,
Sally Anderson Goodson

PS For a good laugh about The Smokescreen Gang go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smokescreengang/

From August, 2009:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BloodyBillAndersonMystery/message/15242

***

At our Bloody Bill Anderson Mystery group, we have thousands of messages and
files dealing with this one topic alone. When I began my investigation into the
controversial life and death of Bloody Bill Anderson, the first area of
identification I began with, of course, was his complete name. I started with
all the documentation I could find for the traditionalists' name for Bloody Bill
Anderson, William T. Anderson. I thought that such a task would be relatively
simple and that they surely had mountains of documentation supporting such a
claim for one of the most famous men in the Old West and Civil War. I was right
on the first count as finding their documentation was quite simple, as it seemed
that all the "new historians" said that Bill's middle initial was a "T." There
were only two or three documents giving Bloody Bill Anderson's middle initial as
"T" and low and behold, NO ONE seemed to know what name the "T" stood for ! And
they still don't know. Their best guess is that it stood for "Thomasson" but
that is just a guess as they have no documentation supporting it. Their entire
"T" initial theory is based on the following two primary documents:

1) 1860 Agnes County, Kansas census entry for William ? Anderson, son of William
C. Anderson.
2) March 2. 1864 Sherman, Grayson County, Texas marriage certificate for
Lieutenant William ? Anderson.

I will discuss the problems with the census entry first. In order to understand
my objections to each of these documents, you need to have the a copy of the
original in front of you. On first glance, the middle initial for young William
Anderson, son of William C. Anderson, appears to be a "T". But this is where
honest people make their mistakes. Let's say, to play the devil's advocate,
that this letter on the entry IS a "T". Every genealogist knows of countless
examples where census-takers have made honest errors in recording names AND
middle initials so this one letter alone cannot even come close to countering
all the evidence proving Bloody Bill Anderson's middle initial was a "C." but I
will get to that later. First appearances can be deceiving so one needs to
compare that capital letter with the other capital "T"s in that census that were
written by that same census-taker. This is when you will see that this one
written letter does NOT resemble other capital "T"s written by the very same
census-taker. Why is that? I find at least two possible reasons. One is that
it is not a "T" at all but possibly an "L" (standing for Lum which was the
commonly-used shortened version of the name Columbus). Another is that this
entry for young William did not include a middle initial at all when it was
first recorded by the census-taker but was possibly added later for whatever
reasons.
The second piece of evidence is the much-acclaimed marriage certificate for
Bloody Bill Anderson and Bush Smith. When one looks at an enlarged copy of this
original document closely, it is easy to see that it has been altered too,
specifically, in the date for the decade where a "6" has been written over a
"5". Why was that necessary? Well, the William "T" supporters claim that four
years after the decade changed from the fifties to the sixties, the county had
not ordered new revised certificate forms to be printed ! There sure must not
have been many marriages in Grayson County during those four years and they must
have over-ordered a lot of forms for the fifties. Let's say, for argument's
sake, that this was actually the case. Then Quantrill's scout, John McCorkle,
must have been badly mistaken when he clearly states in his book "Four Years
With Quantrill" that Bill Anderson married Bush Smith "during Christmas week" at
Sherman. Well, March 2nd sure isn't Christmas week ! John McCorkle WAS THERE
as were many of Bloody Bill's comrades. Looking again at the
highly-questionable marriage certificate, one finds a similar problem with the
middle initial, in the two spots where the writers wrote it in William
Anderson's name, as there is with the census entry. Both letters could have
been another letter and the one at the top doesn't look too much different than
the "L" in "Lieutenant. Once again, these letters could have been added in
later for whatever reason.
A few other things need to be seriously considered before accepting these two
documents as "proof" that Bloody Bill Anderson's middle initial was a "T."

1) Why do traditional or new historians not have a SINGLE handwriting specimen
of William "T" Anderson's personal signature anywhere from the first 24 years
of his life? He was one of the most famous individuals in our history, was a
commander of his own band of Confederate Guerrillas so surely he signed his own
orders and reports. We know he sent letters to the editors of newspapers for
the attention of his Union foes. Where are these letters? The traditionalists'
claim the Yankees found Bloody Bill's personal letters, orders, and papers after
the ambush near Orrick in October 1864. Where are those valuable documents now?
No, they want us to take their word for his middle initial, minus a proven
middle name, based on two very suspicious and possibly altered documents.
2) Historians are notable for knowing not only the middle initial but the full
middle name of famous people and their fathers. That is not the case when you
look at most of the traditionalist historians/writers' accounts of Bloody Bill
Anderson after 1990. They claim not to know either the father's, William C.
Anderson's, middle name nor the middle name of his famous son. Take only the
most famous leaders of Quantrill's Guerrillas which include Quantrill himself,
Cole Younger, Frank James, and we all seem to know not only their middle names
but also the middle names of their fathers. Why don't we know the middle names
of Bloody Bill Anderson OR his father William C. Anderson? I believe many of
the traditionalist historians DO know their full names and can prove them. Why,
then, don't they? I'll let you form your own answer to that question.
3) What is the first job of any good investigator or detective? Their first job
is always to determine the primary means of identification of the subject they
are investigating. How do they do that? They match a face and physical
description with their subject's FULL NAME.
4) EVERY book, newspaper article or magazine article written about Bloody Bill
Anderson, written prior to 1969 when Donald Hale first inserted the "T" into
Bloody Bill's name, gave Bloody Bill Anderson's name as: "William Anderson",
"Bill Anderson", "Bloody Bill Anderson" or (get this) "William C. Anderson?
These writers wrote closer to the Civil War times of Bloody Bill Anderson so
they had many first-hand accounts from people who knew Bloody Bill Anderson that
latter day writers and historians did not have access to. Some of these writers
were Bloody Bill Anderson's own Guerrilla comrades. These comrades did not give
a middle name or initial to their friend and comrade but called him simply
either "Bill Anderson" or "William Anderson". If they knew his correct name,
and some surely did, they would not have revealed it because saying his middle
initial was a "C" or his middle name was "Columbus" (probably just like his
father's), would have exposed their comrade Colonel William C. Anderson who
still hadn't revealed that he had survived the 1864 ambush and was living mostly
peacefully at Salt Creek, Brown County, Texas. They were not only bound by duty
and allegiance to protect his identity but were bound by the Blood Oath of the
Knights of the Golden Circle that provided "death" for any member who revealed
another's identity or membership in that secret Confederate Organization. Other
writers/historians were not bound by that code. I have found that of the book
writers who gave a middle initial to Bloody Bill Anderson in their books that at
least half of these called him "William C. Anderson"! I suppose they were not
impressed by two scanty pieces of documentation later provided by the
traditionalist historians but, rather preferred their own solid documentation.
So, out of 26 letters in the alphabet, these notable historians/writers just
reached into a hat and EVERY ONE of them just happened to pull out a "C".
Preposterous! While I am not a mathematician, can you calculate the odds that
these writers would all "guess" at the same letter "C"?
5) Some of the several renowned authors who referred explicitly to Bloody Bill
Anderson as "William C. Anderson" include the following but our members of the
Bloody Bill Anderson Mystery group have listed several more and continue to
locate others who agreed that the one and only Bloody Bill Anderson's real name
was William C. Anderson:
- Dr. Robert S. Brownlee, "Gray Ghosts of the Confederacy"
- Shelby Foote, "The Civil War from Fredericksburg to Meridian", 1963.
- Robert L. Dyer, "Jesse James and the Civil War in Missouri", 1994.


6) Of course, the truest proof of Bloody Bill Anderson's full name comes
from none other than the man himself who told Brownwood Bulletin-Banner staff
writer in 1924 that he, William Columbus Anderson, was the one and only Bloody
Bill Anderson, leader of Quantrill's Raiders. The Fuller interview appeared in
newspapers and even magazines all across Texas and Missouri and the United
States. After an exhaustive search by not only our large membership but also
those of the opposing viewpoint, not a single Guerrilla comrade of Bill Anderson
stepped forward to say that William C. Anderson's statement was untrue! To
date, we have listed and documented 27 Quantrill's Raiders, who served with Bill
Anderson, who were alive after this Interview was made public. It needs to
also be pointed out that William C. "Bloody Bill" Anderson's naysayers' claim he
was the son of Stone County, Missouri's William M. Anderson, Sr. but have yet to
provide the name of ONE member or descendant of this Stone County Anderson
family, who knew the man they even called "Bloody Bill" Anderson, who stepped
forward to say that their friend Colonel William C. "Bloody Bill" Anderson was
lying in the interview or that he was a member of their own immediate Anderson
family.


~Jay~

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

***
~Texas Jay

From August, 2009:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BloodyBillAndersonMystery/message/15242

***

At our Bloody Bill Anderson Mystery group, we have thousands of messages and
files dealing with this one topic alone. When I began my investigation into the
controversial life and death of Bloody Bill Anderson, the first area of
identification I began with, of course, was his complete name.

"In essence, Sally, you are a disgrace to both your own Stone County Anderson family and to the family of William C. "Bloody Bill" Anderson whose father was also named William C. Anderson."
 
"Disgrace", says the one who was permanently banned a year or so ago from all Ancestry.com owned boards for posting the names and e-mail addresses on a porn site of those women who disagreed with his theories, and requested that their e-mail boxes be flooded with messages.

Henry C. Fuller did his part to spread misinformation in 1924 as you continue to do today.  The difference is that records are readily available today to prove that William C. Anderson of Brown County, TX, was not Lieut. William T. "Bloody Bill" Anderson, who was killed near Orrick, MO, in 1864 after marrying Bush Smith in Grayson County, TX, in March 1864. 
 
How was your William C. Anderson theory received on the MO Civil War board? 
 
Insulting Sally is unnecessary.  She posted a historical document that shows William C. Anderson in Brown County, TX, in 1863 BEFORE the death of William T. Anderson in Ray County, MO, in 1864.
 
http://genforum.genealogy.com/cgi-b...lie,goodspeed::anderson::20124.html
Take a good look at the 1894 Goodspeed article which names the family group of William and Jane Scruggs Anderson of Stone County, MO.  The residence of their sons still living in 1894, three of whom were in Texas; Francis M., of Blanco County, Tex;  James N., of Brown County, Tex.; William C., also of Brown County, Tex.  Census records confirm these men were in these counties.  The death certificate of F. M. Anderson, the oldest child of William C. Anderson, shows his birth date as May 9, 1864 in Brownwood; parents W. C. Anderson, MO, and Elizabeth Anderson, GA.  Elizabeth was in her parents' household in Brown County in the 1860 census.
 
Reliance upon history according to Henry C. Fuller has some problems.  In the article under the byline of Henry C. Fuller, published 17 October 1926 in the Abilene, Texas paper, this attempted rewrite of history is found, "The girls were taken to Gallatin, placed in an old wooden building used as a jail and one night a storm came, blew the building down, and killed the two sisters of Anderson." 
Of course, only one, Josephine, was killed.  The Union jail was in Kansas City, not Gallatin.  The building collapsed in the daytime, not at night, and was not blown down..
 
Is your problem intelligence, ego, or obstinance?

Hey Rollie!  It's great to see you here joining Sally as it proves that you and the Smokescreen Gang follow me everywhere I or other members of our group go, in other words, stalking.  I didn't know you were interested in treasure hunting.  Are you a recent convert or do you have other motives for being here?
~Texas Jay
http://bloodybillanderson.webs.com

Sally said:
"An old map just was found over at the Portal to Texas History of Brown County from 1863, published by the GLO..."

Maybe I'm going blind but I've looked over the map you, Sally, posted several times but cannot see the date "1863" on it anywhere.  Perhaps, you won't mind documenting that for me and other members.  Also, you may want to explain why the writing for "WC Anderson" (along with very few of the others) is written in a lighter shade of ink than the great majority of them.  Knowing the name of the mapmaker and the person supplying the information for this map as well as its chain of custody would be very helpful too.  Two things everyone should keep in mind when Sally, Rollie, or their other allies post any sort of "documentation" regarding the 1863 date is that it is well-documented that ALL of the county records for Brown County, Texas were destroyed in the Brown County Courthouse fire of 1880, that Bill Anderson's comrade and confidant Henry Ford was the County Clerk for many of the years in question and that he was bound by a blood oath to protect the identities of all members of the Knights of the Golden Circle including William C. "Bloody Bill" Anderson.   
~Texas Jay

Hey Rollie!  It's great to see you here joining Sally as it proves that you and the Smokescreen Gang follow me everywhere I or other members of our group go, in other words, stalking.  I didn't know you were interested in treasure hunting.  Are you a recent convert or do you have other motives for being here?
~Texas Jay
http://bloodybillanderson.webs.com

I've been to the diamond mine in Murfreesboro, AR, where I found nothing.  I've found 15 rusty horseshoes and a rusty pick in my garden, possibly exceeding the cash value of your treasure hunting discoveries.
Since you are obsessed with trying to prove William C. Anderson of Brown County was William T. Anderson who died in 1864, have you found anything that supports the Henry C. Fuller yarn?  Any records?  Any sources? Just lots of variations of the same story in different publications and other hearsay.  
Educate yourself about the two William Andersons, both born in MO about the same time.  Start with information found at http://unclebilly.texas-heartland.com/2Williams.html, then come back and ask some intelligent questions.
You will find members of the extended Anderson family rebutting misinformation posted by ill-informed pseudo-historians about the life of William C. Anderson wherever that misinformation is found.  Call it stalking if you like.  I could care less about your KGC or KGB or KFC stories, but William C. Anderson is my great-great-uncle, and he was not William T. "Bloody Bill" Anderson.

Rollie, so you are saying that you are here to learn how to successfully hunt for and find treasure.  Is that right?  For your information, I have been using a metal detector since 1969 and co-founded the metal detecting club in Brownwood, Texas in 1981.  In all those years, for the life of me, I can't remember a single hour I've spent using a detector that I didn't find more than you've found in all of your "treasure hunting" adventures combined.  I suggest that before you start bashing other treasure hunters on this website, that you visit some of the other forums here as I am sure there are some for beginners.

http://pages.suddenlink.net/cttc/index.html  - Central Texas Treasure Club, Brownwood, Texas (founded 1981)

~Texas Jay

Hey, Texas Jay:
   The fact that these newbies, showing only 2 and 5 posts respectively,  jump right into ripping on you proves what YOU say and negates their comments.  
   You mentioned, above, how the census taker's writing looks like a different letter for the middle initial of William Anderson.  Well, I've run into that same situation while doing genealogy research on my family for my own records.  The census taker's writing was a little slip shod.  One of my Dad's older sisters middle name was written so badly that the readers at Ancestry.com put it down as "Clive".  I grew up around this aunt and her middle name was "Alice".  The census taker did not close the top of the capital letter "A" (the script form) so that a quick read gives you "Clive".  The open top "A" produced what LOOKED like a "Cl".  And the "c" was written as a lazy form that looked like a rounded "v".  After pulling up a copy of the original form and enlarging the copy to study the name, I could easily see the problem.   I submitted a correction note to Ancestry.com about that situation.  As I said, I grew up around my Aunt Alice and KNEW the truth.  
    I found a short booklet about how to read the old writings and posted that link on "that other site" where you can easily find it.  

Hi Shortstack.  I'm happy that you see that I've been telling the truth about this small bunch stalking me on every website I participate in.  I'm confident that other members realize this too.  One thing the Smokescreen Gang always fail to mention is that errors on censuses were quite common and, regarding the Stone County Andersons, Rollie and Sally know very well that the 1860 Brown County, Texas census lists one of their own, David Q. Anderson, incorrectly as "B.Q. Anderson".  That is not the only error that was made over the years by census-takers regarding this Stone County Anderson family but they want everyone to believe that the census entry, which allegedly "proves" that Bloody Bill Anderson's middle initial was a "T", was infallible.     They also don't want to discuss their other infallible piece of "conclusive evidence", the clearly altered "marriage certificate" for Bill Anderson and Bush Smith and how it gives a marriage date that is completely different than that given by another Quantrill's Guerrilla who was there!  That's it, folks.  That's all they have to offer as evidence.  Two altered or erroneous documents.  It's really sad that they are allowed to perpetuate this over and over again wherever contradictory evidence and solid proof is offered.
~Texas Jay
http://bloodybillanderson.webs.com

[I've found 15 rusty horseshoes and a rusty pick in my garden, possibly exceeding the cash value of your treasure hunting discoveries.]

I've been to the diamond mine in Murfreesboro, AR, where I found nothing.  I've found 15 rusty horseshoes and a rusty pick in my garden, possibly exceeding the cash value of your treasure hunting discoveries.
Since you are obsessed with trying to prove William C. Anderson of Brown County was William T. Anderson who died in 1864, have you found anything that supports the Henry C. Fuller yarn?  Any records?  Any sources? Just lots of variations of the same story in different publications and other hearsay.  
Educate yourself about the two William Andersons, both born in MO about the same time.  Start with information found at http://unclebilly.texas-heartland.com/2Williams.html, then come back and ask some intelligent questions.

Greetings and welcome to TreasureNet  

Thanks for the chuckle...I believe your rusty horseshoes and pick do exceed the cash value of anything found by Jay. However, maybe Jay can fabricate a story of being the Greatest Treasure Hunter on Earth along with his umpteen other conspiracy theories    

SWR, my son is quite actively engaged in treasure hunting with a metal detector.  He has traveled to north Texas, the Texas panhandle, Mexico, and Chile to search for treasure.  But that’s another story that only he could tell.  Texas Jay can tell lots of stories.  It’s the facts that are his problem.  I would like to offer you honorary membership in the Smokescreen Gang, those researchers who strive to blow away all the smoke emanating from Texas Jay.  The Smokescreen Gang are researchers who have found source documents and records that disprove the claims of an 84 year old William C. Anderson that he was Bloody Bill Anderson.  Only Texas Jay is gullible enough to believe such a tall tale, even when O R 52, O R 52 supplement, provide details of his death, and 1850 and 1860 census records show the young men William C. Anderson and William T. Anderson in their parents household.  William C. Anderson’s oldest son, Francis Marion Anderson, was born 9 May 1864 in Brownwood, Texas, to W. C. Anderson and Elizabeth Anderson, according to his death certificate.  The Grayson County, TX, marriage license shows Lieut. William T. Anderson married Bush Smith in March, 1864, before his death in October, 1864, as described in O R 52.  Texas Jay argues that the mother of Francis Marion Anderson was Bush Smith (never mind the 2 month pregnancy), and that, according to Texas Jay, Bloody Bill Anderson escaped the ambush near Orrick, MO, in October, fled to TX, abandoned Bush Smith, carried Francis Anderson from Grayson County to Brown County, and married Martha Elizabeth Anderson.  No records, no documents, just a fantasy.  Of course, Martha Anderson testified under oath, in a court case that she had been married to W. C. Anderson  “in about 1860”, which was not quite accurate.  The 1900 census shows William C. and Martha had been married 37 years, and the 1910 census shows that he had been married only once.  So, as usual, Texas Jay has no facts to support his fantasy.
I've read that Will Rogers never met a man he didn't like.
Could it be that Texas Jay never heard a conspiracy theory he didn't like?
Texas Jay, who is not a native Texan or a member of the Anderson family, should review his Texas history.  So the Brownwood Courthouse burned in 1880.  The Republic of Texas Congress established the General Land Office in 1836 shortly after Texas won its independence from Mexico.  Beginning in the early 1840s, the majority of the county maps in the collection were compiled and drawn by draftsmen at the Land Office. Most are manuscript maps, meaning original hand-drawn works. On many maps, draftsmen would often draw intricate designs and add whimsically detailed art, adding character to many maps in this collection.  There are two things that everyone should keep in mind.  Texas Jay is long on claims and short on facts.  Texas Jay is a great advocate of negative logic.  If no one disputes his specious claim; it must be true.
Texas Jay has asserted that Henry Ford was the comrade and confidant of William C. Anderson.  It is logical to assume that Henry Ford, as County Clerk, and later,  Brownwood banker, and William C. Anderson, as a landowner, interacted in business and commercial dealings.  Where is the proof that they were comrades and confidants?  Texas Jay asserts that Henry Ford was a member of the KGC.  Where is the proof? Once again, all talk, no facts.

Shortstack:

   I'm wondering if you were a member of Jay's forum as I don't remember you
posting on it.  I stayed with it for a couple years for the genuine historical info
some members had to offer.  But Jay himself was on a mission to change the
parts of history he didn't agree with no matter how ridiculous his concepts were.
I respect you but wonder how come you defend him?  You also were protective
of S. E. as well when he was making ridiculous claims.  Do you just like lost causes?  In any case nobody can say you aren't loyal.   

No, lastleg,  I am not a member of TJay's forum and have not been in the past.  The reason I've been "defending" him is because of the people who seem to have made it their life's mission to CONTINUALLY disagree and name call him.  It is NOT necessary to keep saying the same, tired old name calling and CRAP.  If you don't agree with his, or anyone else's, opinions then say it ONCE and go on.  Why in hell would anyone keep on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on; over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over;  again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again on EVERY FRIGGIN POST the man makes.  There are 2 posters above who are newbies to this site, who have 2 and 5 posts, respectively, and they started right in with their bull$hit. 

Look, there MUST be a better reason for their tenacity in continually downplaying Texas Jay's information.  Could they simply be a few A$$HOLES with nothing better to do or could they be "working" a project and are afraid TJay is getting too close to "their" caches.  Wellllllll, at this point, it's a toss-up.  I hate stalkers of any kind and if there was a way to "clean out" the sewer, I'd help. 

"LOST CAUSES?"   By whose definitions?  What makes those other people's information the solid gold gospel and Texas Jay's information crap???  It's pretty subjective don't you think?  Don't you wonder WHY those other folks don't just let Jay go off on his "wild goose chase" while they go quietly about THEIR research and make the recoveries?  Why would they spend so much time arguing with someone about the information's validity?  ESPECIALLY if that person is not of their group.  If his research is WRONG, then let him go off into the Texas sunset while THEY find the gold. 

No, lastleg.  There's a real STINK to that situation and I can't say that I could be as calm about it as TJay has been.  But then, revenge is a dish best served cold. 

Dear Shortstack:

   Thanks for taking for taking for taking for taking for taking for taking the time the time the time the time to explain to explain to explain your thoughts
your thoughts your thoughts on the on the Bloody Bill Barbeque Bill T C T C
Bush Bill Brushy Bill Frank Bill Jesse Bill Belle Bill Star Bill Buffalo Bill KGC Bill
Smoke Bill Screen Bill Kid Billy Bill $ $ $ $ $ Bill Underground Bill Cache Bill
Hoot Bill Owl Bill Okie Bill Dalton Bill Con Bill Billy Biily Goat Bill $ $ $ Bloody
Who Bill Cares Bill Foghorn Bill Boring Bill Jay Bill Give Bill Arest Billy Bill BBQ
Bill Brown Bill Wood Bill Long Bill Winded Bill OOOHH Bill Mystery Bill Shock
Bill Ford Bill Who Bill Gives Bill ABill X#$@Bill.    Thank Bill You Bill

Why in hell would anyone keep on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on; over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over;  again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again on EVERY FRIGGIN POST
 

Shortstack, I must say I am in complete agreement with this portion of your post.  Why does Texas Jay persist in posting an unproven theory based solely on hearsay, no facts, only a story told by an 84 year old man?  Texas Jay roams the internet, posting his version of history about Bloody Bill on various boards, which would be OK except for the fact that one of my relatives is the subject of his misinformation.  Let's say someone posted on various boards that your father was a chicken thief, and continued to post that false information with no proof, after proof to the contrary had been presented.  Would you be man enough to defend your father's character as best you could by rebutting false allegations everywhere they appeared?  Since you have defended Texas Jay, there is no doubt in my mind that you would defend your father's character, "stalking" the offender wherever his BS appears.  For your information, neither the KGC, KFC, or KGB is of any interest to me, so Texas Jay can expound upon those topics to his hearts content on every board everywhere and I will not be there.    I believe Texas Jay owes every member of this forum an apology for this off topic discussion.  Texas Jay's post of May 30 had nothing to do with treasure hunting; he was advertising his website, and promoting a link to his flawed version of history.  Thanks for reading.

Shortstack:

   I'm wondering if you were a member of Jay's forum as I don't remember you
posting on it.  I stayed with it for a couple years for the genuine historical info
some members had to offer.  But Jay himself was on a mission to change the
parts of history he didn't agree with no matter how ridiculous his concepts were.
I respect you but wonder how come you defend him?  You also were protective
of S. E. as well when he was making ridiculous claims.  Do you just like lost causes?  In any case nobody can say you aren't loyal.   

Maybe lastleg would like to review my suggestion about bulk gold and silver being a good investment which was posted on this website a year or so ago and where he scoffed at everything I said in that thread.  Well, had he followed my suggestions then, instead of ridiculing them, he could have nearly doubled his total assets only a short year later.  Who's laughing now, lastleg?     
~Texas Jay

   That would be me laughing, Jay.  How much did YOU buy?

Compare the prices of gold and silver when we first had our little discussion with current prices which are shown on this site's homepage and you will see why I am laughing at you, not with you.  I'll tell you how much I bought if you'll honestly tell me how much you've lost on your Wall Street wagers in the past 3 years.  Deal?
~Texas Jay

Rollie:
   Did Texas Jay call your relative a chicken thief or a member of "Bloody Bill" Anderson's guerrilla fighters during the Border Wars and the War of Northern Aggression?  There's a whole world of difference in the two.  If he were a chicken thief; well, I can understand your consternation.  But, if he was a member of Anderson's band..........where's the problem???  Your stalking of TJ still doesn't make sense.  History is history.  It cannot be changed.  Put your energies into something meaningful.

T Jay:

   Y'know I'd clean forgotten that conversation, Jay.  You say your metals have
gone up since you bought a little of it?  To realize a profit you now have to sell.
My fancy stock mutuals are down but I don't plan to take a loss and sell.  As
long as I hold the same number of shares in a no-load mutual fund there is no
loss unless I were to sell at a lower net asset value than when they were bought.  Gold and silver do not pay dividends.  And to hit big you have to
buy a lot of it when it goes way down.  Then you have to either sell high or
store which is dangerous when you brag about having it.  Anyway I congratu-
late you for thinking ahead.

Rollie:
   Did Texas Jay call your relative a chicken thief or a member of "Bloody Bill" Anderson's guerrilla fighters during the Border Wars and the War of Northern Aggression?  There's a whole world of difference in the two.  If he were a chicken thief; well, I can understand your consternation.  But, if he was a member of Anderson's band..........where's the problem???  Your stalking of TJ still doesn't make sense.  History is history.  It cannot be changed.  Put your energies into something meaningful.

Shortstack, thanks for your response.  We agree that history is history; what happened, happened, and can't be changed, although Texas Jay persists in trying to do just that.  William C. Anderson was not the notorious William T. "Bloody Bill" Anderson as Texas Jay claims.  The problem - history is history and can't be changed as Texas Jay tries to do, and I will always challenge him when it concerns a member of my extended family. I have no interest in any of Texas Jay's outrageous claims about any other subject.   He can post his fantasies anywhere and everywhere about KFC, KGC, KGB, or whatever, and I could care less.

Hell , I was a chicken thief , myself , in my formative years . No shame in that . I regale my grandchildren with tales of my adventures so they may shortcut the learning curve to professionalism without becoming shot in their early years like I did .
 Painful way to learn how not to steal chickens .

Chickens are just too NOISY.   I lifted a few quiet tomatoes  and maybe a watermelon or 2.     I guess the liberals' welfare state has just about done away with the necessity of stealing chickens in today's society.  Kinda sad really.   

I'm not against Uncle Sam giving a little help in lean times, but when generation after generation have become dependent upon welfare it just starts us on a downward spiral. Why work for a living when you can work the system I guess.

Old men grasping for glory in their final years of life is nothing new. Just look at J. Frank Dalton and his claim of being Jesse James. Overwhelming proof shows otherwise yet there are still a few hanging onto the belief of his claims. Many of these folks are ones who are profiting from books or have staked their reputations and theories on Dalton being JJ.

That an 84 year old man in his final part of life would make a claim to be Bloody Bill doesn't come as a suprise. If the facts prove otherwise then I don't blame family members for trying to correct an untruth. With a little research of census records it seems that the family is right on this one.

Just like with J. Frank you can bring in a boatload of real proof that the claims are untrue and those who believe otherwise will continue to do so. Jay has the right to claim what he will and the family has the right to prove otherwise. I don't see it as stalking or smoke screening it's just the otherside of the side of the story. Since it's an open forum where many things are discussed other than treasure I feel Rollie is welcome to jump in and present facts as well. Just my humble opinion.

Okie, now back to the topic that I started which is "KGC Treasure Leads in Central Texas".  Perhaps you would like to quote yourself, from your own blog, when you made a statement about turtle signs and carvings.  That is one of the things that I must say you are correct about.  I won't quote you but will give you this opportunity to re-state what turtle signs indicate.  Oh yes, this does have a lot to do with the topic. 
Let me clear up a few of Rollie's misstatements here.  He is not a member of William C. Anderson's "extended family" but I am. My great uncle was Bill and Missouria Anderson's son Storm Anderson and was married to my great aunt Letha Longley Anderson who I knew very well until she died in 1979.  I have never said anything demeaning about William C. "Bloody Bill" Anderson.  I've always held great admiration and respect for this Southern hero and for the words he said to Henry C. Fuller in 1924 where he admitted being the Guerrilla leader known as "Bloody Bill Anderson" and, thus, totally separated himself from any notions that he was a member of the family Rollie and Sally claim is theirs - the Stone County William M. Anderson, Sr. family.  W.M. Anderson, Sr.'s son was a "Bill Anderson" too but he was killed in September, 1864 by Yankee soldiers in Waynesville, Missouri according to the War of the Rebellion Records.  I don't believe I ever called this man a "chicken thief" but the soldiers who killed him said they did so after his small gang had committed petty theft by stealing something like a hundred dollars and some clothes.  ha.  So, I've called him a "petty thief" as that is what I consider him. 
By the way, I'm still awaiting the results that this gang (represented by Sallie and Rollie here) for the DNA tests that they claimed, last year, would prove that William Columbus Anderson of Salt Creek, Texas was the son of William M. Anderson, Sr. of Stone County Missouri and therefore could not have been "Bloody Bill" Anderson.  After bragging that those results were due back "any day", NOTHING was ever said about them again!  Why not?  I'll let other members draw their own conclusions about that.   
~Texas Jay
http://bloodybillanderson.webs.com  - here is what William C. "Bloody Bill" Anderson told Brownwood Banner-Bulletin staff writer Henry C. Fuller in 1924.  Remember, these are not my words.  They are the words of the man who they wrongly claim was "related" to them. 

........................
Just like with J. Frank you can bring in a boatload of real proof that the claims are untrue and those who believe otherwise will continue to do so. ...........................

My friend, your description of those who choose to dismiss accepted history and cling to their own fantasy is absolutely correct.  Jesse James wins the claimant sweepstakes.  More amazing than J. Frank is the fact that 2 if not 3 books have recently been published by the purported great-granddaughter of Jesse W. James.  She claims someone other that Jesse James was killed in 1882; that JWJ came to TX in 1871; and lived under the alias of James L. Courtney.  She denies the validity of the DNA results from JWJs remains; denies the validity of DNA results showing that her great-grandfather's descendants were related to his brother's descendants; obtains photographs from her relatives and re-identifies them as photos of JWJ.  The list is too long for this forum.  A real farce.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.  Those who are unwilling to relinquish their fantasies derisively refer to others as "traditionalists".  Sound familiar?

Jay, I'm glad you read the blog, but I think that would be Ron you are trying to quote. Turtles mean treasure. I have found more than one and posted pics on-line. I've also found birds, a clover, boots, hearts, triangles, etc. I've posted many, many pics on the Ancient Lost Treasures forum. I'd post them here, but downsizing hundreds of pics so they will load on here would take up time I don't have. If anyone wants to see them just go to ALT and look for pics posted by 2late2dig. I'd put money that not a one of them is KGC as some have suggested, but most are Spanish with a few outlaw signs thrown in for good measure.

I'll let you, Sally, and Rollie hash out who was who. Personally, I don't look up to black flag riders, redlegs, or any other cut throatband as heroes. There were depredations committed by both sides on innocent civilians and that would include being done by Bloody Bill himself.

Okie: I don't know why you won't quote your own words for members here so I guess I'll have to when I have the time.  To paraphrase, you said "turtles" always lead to treasure.  I agree with you that none of them, at least that I am aware of, are KGC and I have never claimed that they were.  But I could, if I wanted, show you one in central Texas (either Spanish or Mexican) that proves that the KGC recovered some of these early-day treasures and re-concealed them as their own.  Don't hold your breath for this evidence, however, because I most certainly won't be sharing it over the phone or on the Internet.   

Here is an article that was shared with our Bloody Bill Anderson Mystery group, by one of our Moderators, about one of Col. William C. "Bloody Bill" Anderson's friends, comrades, and visitors to his Salt Creek, Texas farm.

***
One of the things that has been argued for a very long time is "What did the James Brothers look like?"  I column one of the paper that I am posting a link to is a description of Col. Frank James, the well known Missouri outlaw.   Not very long at all but gives quite a bit of information for all that.   I understand that there is a report in the War of the Rebellion records that says that the KGC gave the title of Colonel to their organizations highest ranking members. 

Gayla

http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth48723/m1/1/sizes/xl/?q

***




~Texas Jay 

Jay, if you would read my blog again, that is an article posted by Ron that you are trying to give me credit for. You just need to look at the bottom of the article to see who the author is. If this is how you do your research I can see now why I have doubts about your theories. Once again you make a KGC claim but won't show anything to back up the claim.

Old men grasping for glory in their final years of life is nothing new. Just look at J. Frank Dalton and his claim of being Jesse James. Overwhelming proof shows otherwise yet there are still a few hanging onto the belief of his claims. Many of these folks are ones who are profiting from books or have staked their reputations and theories on Dalton being JJ.

That an 84 year old man in his final part of life would make a claim to be Bloody Bill doesn't come as a suprise. If the facts prove otherwise then I don't blame family members for trying to correct an untruth. With a little research of census records it seems that the family is right on this one.

Just like with J. Frank you can bring in a boatload of real proof that the claims are untrue and those who believe otherwise will continue to do so. Jay has the right to claim what he will and the family has the right to prove otherwise. I don't see it as stalking or smoke screening it's just the otherside of the side of the story. Since it's an open forum where many things are discussed other than treasure I feel Rollie is welcome to jump in and present facts as well. Just my humble opinion.

While William T. “Bloody Bill” Anderson and his younger sister, Josephine (later killed in the collapse of the Union jail in Kansas City), were in the household of their parents, William C. and Martha Anderson, in Breckenridge County, KS, Territory, James N. and William C. Anderson (affectionately known as Uncle Billy) were in the household of their parents, William M. and Jane Scruggs Anderson in Stone County, MO before migrating to Brown County, TX.  Fast forward to the 1894 Goodspeed bio of Uncle Billy’s oldest brother, John Henry Anderson, the only male of the family group that supported the Union and remained in Stone County, where the family group of William M. Anderson and Jane Scruggs is identified:  “Mr. and Mrs. Anderson were the parents of nine children: John H., subject; Polly, wife of David P. Parker, died at Aurora; Francis M., a farmer of Blanco County, Tex.; David died in Texas; Parsedda Trammell of Texas; Martha Ann, deceased, was the wife of Hiram Leath; James N., of Brown County, Tex.; William C., also of Brown County, Tex.; and Elizabeth, deceased, who was the wife of J. C. C. Simpson.”  Who do we find in Brown County, TX, in the 1880 census?  None other than William C. Anderson and James N. Anderson.  Who do we find in Brown County, TX, in the 1900 census.  Why once again William C. Anderson is enumerated in Brown County, just as the Goodspeed bio implied.  He and his wife Elizabeth have been married 37 years.  His wife Elizabeth testified under oath in a Brown County trial, that she had been married “in about 1860”.
William T. Anderson married Bush Smith in Grayson County per marriage license, and was killed October 26, 1864, near Orrick in Ray County, MO, according to O R 52, and the O R 52 supplement.
What source documents does TJ have to offer to support the questionable reporting of Henry C. Fuller, whose article published in the Abilene paper stated that the Anderson girls were imprisoned in Gallatin rather than Kansas City, a nighttime storm blew the Union jail down, and 2 Anderson girls rather than one were killed?

Rollie, I am going to reply to this last message of yours and then I will leave you to blow smoke wherever you want for as long as the moderators of this website allow you to distract from the treasure hunting topics.
The only people who have ever referred to William C. "Bloody Bill" Anderson in the derogatory manner as "Uncle Billy" has been you and your Smokescreen Gang.  He was called "Uncle Bill", Colonel Bill, and Bloody Bill Anderson by every one of my ancestors and even your Stone County Andersons, never "Uncle Billy".  John Henry Anderson was most certainly not William C. Anderson's brother.  He was a Yankee in the militia that Bloody Bill Anderson detested and fought against in the War in Missouri.  The other Stone County Anderson sons were either draft-dodgers or petty thieves.  
Missouria Elizabeth Anderson gave the year of her marriage to Bill Anderson as 1866 according to the 1910 Brown County, Texas census.  That being the case, Bill's son Francis Marion Anderson could not have been her own son by Bill Anderson.  This is all documented thoroughly in our group's archives and I see no good reason to re-hash it all again on this forum.  If members want "proof" of what I've said here, all they need to do is join our group where there is solid proof aplenty.  Since I have never seen the Abilene article you refer to, I will not offer any comment or proof as I don't even know whether or not this is just another of the many figments of your imagination.  You will now join SWR "in exile" as far as I'm concerned.  
~Texas Jay
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

Rollie, I am going to reply to this last message of yours and then I will leave you to blow smoke wherever you want for as long as the moderators of this website allow you to distract from the treasure hunting topics.
The only people who have ever referred to William C. "Bloody Bill" Anderson in the derogatory manner as "Uncle Billy" has been you and your Smokescreen Gang.  He was called "Uncle Bill", Colonel Bill, and Bloody Bill Anderson by every one of my ancestors and even your Stone County Andersons, never "Uncle Billy".  John Henry Anderson was most certainly not William C. Anderson's brother.  He was a Yankee in the militia that Bloody Bill Anderson detested and fought against in the War in Missouri.  The other Stone County Anderson sons were either draft-dodgers or petty thieves.  
Missouria Elizabeth Anderson gave the year of her marriage to Bill Anderson as 1866 according to the 1910 Brown County, Texas census.  That being the case, Bill's son Francis Marion Anderson could not have been her own son by Bill Anderson.  This is all documented thoroughly in our group's archives and I see no good reason to re-hash it all again on this forum.  If members want "proof" of what I've said here, all they need to do is join our group where there is solid proof aplenty.  Since I have never seen the Abilene article you refer to, I will not offer any comment or proof as I don't even know whether or not this is just another of the many figments of your imagination.  You will now join SWR "in exile" as far as I'm concerned.  
~Texas Jay
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

TJ, smart soldiers who run out of ammunition, or never had any, always fall back to a defensive position.  You will be perfectly safe discussing this topic on your closed board, where historians, ‘traditionalists”, and dissenters are promptly banned.  You sound so authoritative and know so little about my Anderson family.  Since my great-great-grandmother, Harriet C. Anderson Clements, was the sister of Martha Elizabeth Anderson Anderson, I am obviously an Anderson descendant. 
You contend that Francis Marion Anderson was the son of Bush Smith, wife of William T. Anderson, based solely on the 1910 census which indicates the marriage of William C. and Elizabeth Anderson occurred in 1866, and neglect many other facts to the contrary.
No experienced genealogist relies on a single document.  Consider these facts:
The death certificate of Francis Marion Anderson states his birth date was 9 May 1864; his mother was Elizabeth Anderson; father W. C. Anderson; birthplace, Brownwood (not Grayson County).
The 1900 census shows that William C. and Martha Elizabeth, mother of 12 (2 prior to marrying William, 10 with William), had been married 37 years, i. e. about 1863.
The 1910  census shows that Will C. had been married once, Elizabeth, married twice, (mother of 10), married 44 years, i. e. about 1866.
William Anderson paid taxes in Brown County in 1863.
William Anderson owned land on Salt Creek in Brown County in 1863.
The marriage license of Lieut. William T. Anderson and Bush Smith shows the marriage occurred in March, 1864, in Grayson County before Bloody Bill was killed 16 October 1864.  In your scenario, Bush Smith was pregnant for only two months before Francis Marion Anderson was born 9 May 1864.
The overwhelming preponderance of the evidence contradicts your assumption that Martha Elizabeth Anderson could not have been the mother of Francis Marion Anderson.
How did the BBAM group that conducted the most comprehensive study of Bloody Bill Anderson that has ever been attempted or accomplished fail to uncover the article by Henry C. Fuller in the Abilene Reporter News/Western Weekly, Sunday, October 17, 1926?  Can you find it now with this clue?
”One of Quantrill’s Bravest Men Lives in Brown County, BY HENRY C. FULLER”
There is nothing to rehash, since hearsay is meaningless when facts tell the true story.  William C. Anderson and William T. Anderson were two different men.

  I've always held great admiration and respect for this Southern hero and for the words he said to Henry C. Fuller in 1924 where he admitted being the Guerrilla leader known as "Bloody Bill Anderson" and, thus, totally separated himself from any notions that he was a member of the family Rollie and Sally claim is theirs - the Stone County William M. Anderson, Sr. family.  W.M. Anderson, Sr.'s son was a "Bill Anderson" too but he was killed in September, 1864 by Yankee soldiers in Waynesville, Missouri according to the War of the Rebellion Records. 
~Texas Jay
 
Here is where your research into the mysterious Brownwood man has taken a wrong turn...there is no Stone Co MO William M Anderson Sr, or William Anderson Jr.
There is, however, a Stone Co MO William M Anderson with a son William C Anderson who moved to Brown Co TX in time to be on the 1863 tax rolls and land plat maps. This man did commit a documented crime against his neighbors early in the Civil War in MO, but he, his father and brother moved to TX before he could become any bloodier. The real Bloody Bill, identified as William T Anderson in the official records of the Civil War, was killed in 1864, while William C Anderson of Stone Co MO lived in TX until 1927 :
http://dlxs2.library.cornell.edu/cg...;didno=waro0083;view=image;seq=0466

Could you provide a link to this OR record you quote?"
  "W.M. Anderson, Sr.'s son was a "Bill Anderson" too but he was killed in September, 1864 by Yankee soldiers in Waynesville, Missouri according to the War of the Rebellion Records"


Fran Bolton 

 I've always held great admiration and respect for this Southern hero and for the words he said to Henry C. Fuller in 1924 where he admitted being the Guerrilla leader known as "Bloody Bill Anderson" and, thus, totally separated himself from any notions that he was a member of the family Rollie and Sally claim is theirs - the Stone County William M. Anderson, Sr. family.  W.M. Anderson, Sr.'s son was a "Bill Anderson" too but he was killed in September, 1864 by Yankee soldiers in Waynesville, Missouri according to the War of the Rebellion Records.
~Texas Jay

Here is where your research into the mysterious Brownwood man has taken a wrong turn...there is no Stone Co MO William M Anderson Sr, or William Anderson Jr.
There is, however, a Stone Co MO William M Anderson with a son William C Anderson who moved to Brown Co TX in time to be on the 1863 tax rolls and land plat maps. This man did commit a documented crime against his neighbors early in the Civil War in MO, but he, his father and brother moved to TX before he could become any bloodier. The real Bloody Bill, identified as William T Anderson in the official records of the Civil War, was killed in 1864, while William C Anderson of Stone Co MO lived in TX until 1927 :
http://dlxs2.library.cornell.edu/cg...;didno=waro0083;view=image;seq=0466
Could you provide a link to this OR record you quote?"
  "W.M. Anderson, Sr.'s son was a "Bill Anderson" too but he was killed in September, 1864 by Yankee soldiers in Waynesville, Missouri according to the War of the Rebellion Records"
Fran Bolton  

Sheesh, Texas Jay.  ANOTHER one!!!  The Hatfields and McCoys have NOTHING on these folks.  LOL

 

 I've always held great admiration and respect for this Southern hero and for the words he said to Henry C. Fuller in 1924 where he admitted being the Guerrilla leader known as "Bloody Bill Anderson" and, thus, totally separated himself from any notions that he was a member of the family Rollie and Sally claim is theirs - the Stone County William M. Anderson, Sr. family.  W.M. Anderson, Sr.'s son was a "Bill Anderson" too but he was killed in September, 1864 by Yankee soldiers in Waynesville, Missouri according to the War of the Rebellion Records.
~Texas Jay

Here is where your research into the mysterious Brownwood man has taken a wrong turn...there is no Stone Co MO William M Anderson Sr, or William Anderson Jr.
There is, however, a Stone Co MO William M Anderson with a son William C Anderson who moved to Brown Co TX in time to be on the 1863 tax rolls and land plat maps. This man did commit a documented crime against his neighbors early in the Civil War in MO, but he, his father and brother moved to TX before he could become any bloodier. The real Bloody Bill, identified as William T Anderson in the official records of the Civil War, was killed in 1864, while William C Anderson of Stone Co MO lived in TX until 1927 :
http://dlxs2.library.cornell.edu/cg...;didno=waro0083;view=image;seq=0466
Could you provide a link to this OR record you quote?"
  "W.M. Anderson, Sr.'s son was a "Bill Anderson" too but he was killed in September, 1864 by Yankee soldiers in Waynesville, Missouri according to the War of the Rebellion Records"
Fran Bolton  

Sheesh, Texas Jay.  ANOTHER one!!!  The Hatfields and McCoys have NOTHING on these folks.  LOL

 

LOL, the Stone Co MO Andersons are a large, well connected family, experienced in locating treasures of another kind...their family history! It is ALL documented in their found treasures----- primary records and documents, buried in archives, libraries, courthouses, wills, death certificates, etc, proving beyond a doubt who the mysterious man in Brownwood TX was. In spite of his assuming he was Bloody Bill.

Fran

 
 W.M. Anderson, Sr.'s son was a "Bill Anderson" too but he was killed in September, 1864 by Yankee soldiers in Waynesville, Missouri according to the War of the Rebellion Records.
~Texas Jay

Here is where your research into the mysterious Brownwood man has taken a wrong turn...there is no Stone Co MO William M Anderson Sr, or William Anderson Jr.
There is, however, a Stone Co MO William M Anderson with a son William C Anderson who moved to Brown Co TX in time to be on the 1863 tax rolls and land plat maps. This man did commit a documented crime against his neighbors early in the Civil War in MO, but he, his father and brother moved to TX before he could become any bloodier. The real Bloody Bill, identified as William T Anderson in the official records of the Civil War, was killed in 1864, while William C Anderson of Stone Co MO lived in TX until 1927 :
http://dlxs2.library.cornell.edu/cg...;didno=waro0083;view=image;seq=0466
Could you provide a link to this OR record you quote?"
  "W.M. Anderson, Sr.'s son was a "Bill Anderson" too but he was killed in September, 1864 by Yankee soldiers in Waynesville, Missouri according to the War of the Rebellion Records"
Fran Bolton  

LOL, the Stone Co MO Andersons are a large, well connected family, experienced in locating treasures of another kind...their family history! It is ALL documented in their found treasures----- primary records and documents, buried in archives, libraries, courthouses, wills, death certificates, etc, proving beyond a doubt who the mysterious man in Brownwood TX was. In spite of his assuming he was Bloody Bill.

Fran

[/quote]
Fran, never underestimate the psychic powers of Texas Jay. 
War of Rebellion records, Series 1 - Volume 41 (Part 1), page 850, September 30, 1864 - Skirmish at Waynesville, Mo. “Sir: I attacked twenty guerrillas to-day in Waynesville; killed 1, SAID BY CITIZENS to be Bill Anderson……..”
October 1, 1864 “I learned  to-day that they had collected and LEFT IN A SOUTHERN DIRECTION.”

Since the 1860 census of Missouri shows that 67 men between the ages of 17 and 35 named William Anderson were living in Missouri, only the phenomenal psychic powers of TJ could have positively identified William Anderson of Stone County, one of the 67 William Andersons, as the dead guerrilla, based on the fact the survivors of the skirmish departed in a southern direction.
TJ, the psychic treasure hunter, has an unfair advantage over those relying on metal detectors.

TJ, the psychic treasure hunter, has an unfair advantage over those relying on metal detectors.

[/quote]
I wish my metal detector was psychic and could point out CHIGGERS! Brownwood TX is covered with them, so at certain times of the year it is impossible to dodge them.
One interesting find I made a few years ago south of there was in a tree! The old WWII Camp Bowie training center is probably the source of the shell embedded in the tree about 7 from the ground.

Fran

Okie, now back to the topic that I started which is "KGC Treasure Leads in Central Texas".  Perhaps you would like to quote yourself, from your own blog, when you made a statement about turtle signs and carvings.  That is one of the things that I must say you are correct about.  I won't quote you but will give you this opportunity to re-state what turtle signs indicate.  Oh yes, this does have a lot to do with the topic.

Thanks for reading the blog Jay! http://okietreasurehunter.blogspot.com/
 
We try to be as helpful as we can!!

Why not quote the blog? You'll want to make sure that you you look at (and quote) that information in context and not make it into something it's not.

What about all the other folks pretending to be Bloody Bill? There was even a guy in British Columbia at one time claiming to be Bloody bill and he even had pistols with Bill's initials on them and letters from Bill's mother. Maybe he was the real Bloody Bill?

Then again, maybe not, maybe Bloody Bill actually died when history says he did.

Ron, you say:  "...There was even a guy in British Columbia at one time claiming to be Bloody bill and he even had pistols with Bill's initials on them and letters from Bill's mother. Maybe he was the real Bloody Bill?..."
Surely, you will quote the source of this "other Bloody Bill" claim.  Personally, based on thousands of hours of combined research of our group's members, I think you are full of it.  Even our adversaries, the Smokescreen Gang, has never made such a wild claim.    
~Texas Jay

Sorry Jay, my bad, I was thinking about William Quantrill, not William Anderson, you are correct this time.

Ron, you say:  "...There was even a guy in British Columbia at one time claiming to be Bloody bill and he even had pistols with Bill's initials on them and letters from Bill's mother. Maybe he was the real Bloody Bill?..."
Surely, you will quote the source of this "other Bloody Bill" claim.  Personally, based on thousands of hours of combined research of our group's members, I think you are full of it.  Even our adversaries, the Smokescreen Gang, has never made such a wild claim.    
~Texas Jay

Did you miss my message on June 9th ? Just in case, here was my question:

"Could you provide a link to this OR record you quote?"
  "W.M. Anderson, Sr.'s son was a "Bill Anderson" too but he was killed in September, 1864 by Yankee soldiers in Waynesville, Missouri according to the War of the Rebellion Records"




Fran Bolton

Okie, now back to the topic that I started which is "KGC Treasure Leads in Central Texas".  Perhaps you would like to quote yourself, from your own blog, when you made a statement about turtle signs and carvings.  

Why not quote the blog? You'll want to make sure that you you look at (and quote) that information in context and not make it into something it's not.

What about all the other folks pretending to be Bloody Bill? There was even a guy in British Columbia at one time claiming to be Bloody bill and he even had pistols with Bill's initials on them and letters from Bill's mother. Maybe he was the real Bloody Bill?

Then again, maybe not, maybe Bloody Bill actually died when history says he did.

See these life and death photos of Bloody Bill:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Blood...MysterySolvedGroup/?yguid=344154903
And:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/h3JbgbGRucM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/h3JbgbGRucM</a>

The death photo was taken shortly after he died in ambush in Oct 1864, the life photo probably soon before, it appears he has on the same hat, his hair is the same length. May he rest in peace, as he deserves.

Fran 

Sorry Jay, my bad, I was thinking about William Quantrill, not William Anderson, you are correct this time.

Yes, Alec, our group discovered that story about Quantrill shortly after I started our group four years ago.  I figured I would just let you figure your mistake out on your own.   

http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/KK/vbk1.html

~Texas Jay

Well thanks Jay, I'll be the first to admit I'm not perfect and don't know everything there is to know but a lot of what I do know I try to share. Keep reading the blog!  http://okietreasurehunter.blogspot.com/   

It's too bad you're not willing to share the alleged info you have about the KGC recovering Spanish treasure in Texas and then re-hinding it as their own.

I too used to believe those stories, and stories is really all they are since no one will provide any proof of it actually happening. As I have said before, it seems all of the true believers apparently have all of this evidence proving that what they say is true but nobody wants to share.

If you are actively working a site I cetaintly wouldn't want you to give up a location or any information that would lead someone to the site but let's get real here, none of the KGC true beleivers ever wants to share any of these secrect documents and proof that you all seem to have. I would say that if this "secret" information is that prevalent that so many of the true believers have it then some other researchers would have found it or if the information is that secret, then there wouldn't be everybody and their dog that believes in the KGC that would have it. It just can't be both ways.

I am a new member and have been researching a mysterious Brown County, Texas resident who was known to have ridden with Quantrill's Raiders.  My grandmother used to tell me stories about him as we passed his big old farmhouse in the 1960's.  When I read the Brewer book, "Rebel Gold", these memories resurfaced and I realised there was a very good possibility that some of the KGC caches or even a depository may be in this area of central Texas.  The farther I get in my research the better that possibility seems to be.  While I am a veteran metal detector hobbyist, I am quite new at this KGC thing so I am hoping that some members here have some information regarding possible KGC treasures in the Brownwood, Brown County area of Texas.  Brownwood is located 90 miles southeast of Abilene and 140 miles northwest of Austin.  I would certainly appreciate any information you might share with me on this topic. 

Where can the original photo of William C Anderson ( mysterious Brown County, Texas resident, above) that you posted in Topic #105 Posted Jun 09, 2010, 04:26:17 PM, be found?

Fran Bolton

Frontier Times, 1928, about Colonel William C. Anderson of Salt Creek:

Read the bottom of this ad for the article about William C. Anderson.

http://www.frontiertimesmagazine.com/0328.html

~Texas Jay

Frontier Times, 1928, about Colonel William C. Anderson of Salt Creek:

Read the bottom of this ad for the article about William C. Anderson.

http://www.frontiertimesmagazine.com/0328.html

~Texas Jay

And the source for this article about William C Anderson?
Could it have been the 1924 Henry Fuller newspaper interview, that Fuller tried to research and prove AFTER it was printed?
He says of the interviewee's story:
"There is a mystery here someplace, let's unravel it."

 Before arriving at the conclusion this interview, and therefore the Frontier Times article, proves William C Anderson of Brownwood TX was actually Bloody Bill, one must first conduct a reasonably exhaustive search for all pertinent information. This means locating several different sources for the same information, to give one the best chance at arriving at a well-researched, substantiated conclusion.
What those who read the interview article need to do is locate and document  different sources that will confirm the information gleaned from the 1924 newspaper interview, before they can say it proves William C Anderson was not William C Anderson, but William T Bloody Bill Anderson.
Without that search, and those sources, the newspaper interview gleanings are an unproven tale, and the mystery remains a mystery.
With a reasonable search for all pertinent information, this timeline compariosn of the two men's lives, with sources, was created:

http://unclebilly.texas-heartland.com/WCA_Bio.html

Proving the article and the newspaper interview was a Tall Texas Tale.

Fran Bolton

Hey Guy’s …I did not know where to ask this question…Have any of you had trouble with a compass changing direction when you were looking for KGC treasure..An internet friend in Texas has been asking me this  question and I do not have a clue as to what could cause this to happen..Thank You..Art

Hey Guy’s …I did not know where to ask this question…Have any of you had trouble with a compass changing direction when you were looking for KGC treasure..An internet friend in Texas has been asking me this  question and I do not have a clue as to what could cause this to happen..Thank You..Art

Hi Art.  My partner have used a compass quite a bit in our searches of probable KGC treasure locations and have not encountered any problems like you mention. 
~Texas Jay
http://bloodybillanderson.webs.com

The only thing that could move a compass needle off heading would be a large chunk of ferrous metal disrupting the earth's magnetic field.  Of course, a cheap compass with a weakly magnetized needle wouldn't act too well, either. 

Thanks Guys…If something is happening I just wanted to know about it…Art

Hey Guy’s …I did not know where to ask this question…Have any of you had trouble with a compass changing direction when you were looking for KGC treasure..An internet friend in Texas has been asking me this  question and I do not have a clue as to what could cause this to happen..Thank You..Art

Several times we have observed a compass being pulled off of the cardinal directions. It is usually at a "sitting" or "viewing" place in conjunction with s/s telling you to go a certain direction. We believe you should go in the "new direction" the compass is showing you but use the distances if giving. Sometimes you can get a M/D signal at this spot and dig down and find the rock that is causeing the disruption....it may be marked. If you just remove the rock, and follow the s/s you are most likely headed down a "False Trail".  What a great way for them to leave s/s but keep the true direction hidden from most everyone?

Oddrock

Thanks Oddrock for the information…I am just an old guy that can not get out very often…So I do a lot of Map Dowsing for others. When I run across something different I can not help unless I can come up with the right Questions. You have given me a start with how and what to ask…Thank You …Art

Moderator Comment

Everything below this response was OFF TOPIC!!! It has been removed!

Moderator Comment

We reserve the right to delete or modify any post, avatar or image, at any time, and for any reason.

The bottom line is that you are quoting our group's most ardent paid enemies who are known as the "Smokescreen Gang".  Dozens of our members have thoroughly investigated Bloody Bill Anderson for over 4 years now and we have proven that William C. Anderson was the one and only Bloody Bill Anderson of Quantrill's Guerrillas.  I hope you don't expect me to argue each of this discredited gang's points over again on this forum because I will not.  I will say this and that is that, yes, the Smokescreen Gang does stalk me everywhere I go on the Net.  Why don't you quote the name or names of the people you quote in your message, SWR?  Are you afraid that I will reply with the truth about each and every one of them?  We've not only thoroughly investigated Bloody Bill Anderson but we've also investigated each member of this gang of liars.
~Texas Jay
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

Just for the record, define "Investigated"

Fran Bolton

Okie, as you noted elsewhere, a treasure map (fake, no doubt) is offered on e-bay for only $1,000,000, and a fake photo of Jesse Woodson James for the same absurd price.  The seller lives in Liberty Hill, TX, the home of the author of two books about Jesse Woodson James, who falsely claims to be his great-granddaughter.  The subject of JWJ has been banned on the James Genforum, and on Delphi forums, so the publicity hungry author is forced to look elsewhere for publicity, and hopes to attract attention with these ridiculous prices on e-bay.

Rollie, as the subject of Jesse W. James is alive and well on some delphi forums, just not the one controlled by Gay Mathis.  The author you speak ill of is a regular participant there.  
~Texas Jay
http://bloodybillanderson.webs.com

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery - the subjects of Jesse W. James, Frank James, Quantrill, Bill Anderson, and even Billy the Kid and other "outlaws" have been discussed and thoroughly studied at our group freely for over four years.

http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/KK/vbk1.html  - Handbook of Texas Online article for the Knights of the Golden Circle.

Okie, as you noted elsewhere, a treasure map (fake, no doubt) is offered on e-bay for only $1,000,000, and a fake photo of Jesse Woodson James for the same absurd price.  The seller lives in Liberty Hill, TX, the home of the author of two books about Jesse Woodson James, who falsely claims to be his great-granddaughter.  The subject of JWJ has been banned on the James Genforum, and on Delphi forums, so the publicity hungry author is forced to look elsewhere for publicity, and hopes to attract attention with these ridiculous prices on e-bay.

A COPY of a map is listed for sale at $1 million, complete with directions added to it not on the original. No returns, no guarantee it will lead to gold worth claimed to be worth $7.4 million.
Question, why would the seller of the COPY of the map settle for $1 million, when the seller could reap the full $7.4 million??
Who has the original map? Isn't IT the one worth $1 Million, if either is?
Can a person legally sell a copy of someone else's property?

Who owns the land the map leads to?
Millionaires did not get in that category without doing their investment homework.

Fran

I've seen the map and the code that goes with it. While I don't remember $30,000 in gold I do think it is a real treasure map, but I don't think it was Jesse James. I've seen too many of his maps and this one doesn't look like his work.

Let me clear up a few of Rollie's misstatements here.  He is not a member of William C. Anderson's "extended family" but I am. My great uncle was Bill and Missouria Anderson's son Storm Anderson and was married to my great aunt Letha Longley Anderson who I knew very well until she died in 1979.  I have never said anything demeaning about William C. "Bloody Bill" Anderson.  I've always held great admiration and respect for this Southern hero and for the words he said to Henry C. Fuller in 1924 where he admitted being the Guerrilla leader known as "Bloody Bill Anderson" and, thus, totally separated himself from any notions that he was a member of the family Rollie and Sally claim is theirs - the Stone County William M. Anderson, Sr. family.  W.M. Anderson, Sr.'s son was a "Bill Anderson" too but he was killed in September, 1864 by Yankee soldiers in Waynesville, Missouri according to the War of the Rebellion Records.  I don't believe I ever called this man a "chicken thief" but the soldiers who killed him said they did so after his small gang had committed petty theft by stealing something like a hundred dollars and some clothes.  ha.  So, I've called him a "petty thief" as that is what I consider him.  
~Texas Jay
http://bloodybillanderson.webs.com  - here is what William C. "Bloody Bill" Anderson told Brownwood Banner-Bulletin staff writer Henry C. Fuller in 1924.  Remember, these are not my words.  They are the words of the man who they wrongly claim was "related" to them.  

****************
Texas Jay, to put it bluntly, you are intellectually challenged, or morally bankrupt, incapable of acknowledging the truth; all bluster and no facts.  My great-grandmother, Harriet Anderson married Israel Clements, who was tax assessor of Brown County in 1858.  They are both buried in Roberts Cemetery in Brown County, as are 4 of their 5 children, including my grandmother, Texana Clements Petty.  Harriet's father was Moses G. Anderson, first county clerk of Brown County.  Her sister was Martha Elizabeth Anderson, who married William C. Anderson.  The father of William C. Anderson was William M. Anderson.  William M. Anderson, Moses G. Anderson, Samuel Anderson of Stone County, MO, were sons of Noble Anderson.

You don't have the faintest idea of the identity of the Bill Anderson killed in Waynesville, MO., do you?  Where is your proof that it was William Anderson of Stone County?  Just another of your many erroneous suppositions.  William C. Anderson of Stone County, and 3 of his brothers were in Brown County, TX, in 1864.  Do a little research before you make these irresponsible claims.

William C. Anderson did not confess to anything.  William T. "Bloody Bill" Anderson was killed in MO in 1864.  Nobody knows what, if anything, William C. Anderson told Henry C. Fuller.  The entire fictitious story of the ambush may have come from the vivid imagination of Henry C. Fuller.  If you know as little about treasure hunting as you do about the Anderson family, you will be lucky to to find your way home at the end of the day.

Good luck on your search for KFC treasure!!

It is you, Rollie, who fits your own description of me.  I suggest the webmaster delete your message which is a wholly uncalled for personal attack of name-calling directed at me.  I can prove my relationship to Letha Longley Anderson (Storm's wife) by DNA.  Yet, you cannot prove that William C. Anderson was the son of your William M. Anderson, Sr. by the same undeniable means.  Why don't you stop making personal attacks long enough to explain why you won't disclose the results of the DNA tests that you and your gang conducted over a year ago that was supposed to prove all the windies you tell in your message below?  At the time, you all boasted that they would prove that William C. Anderson of Salt Creek was the son of your William M. and not the son of Bloody Bill's father who carried the same name of "William C. Anderson".  Obviously, your silence on this important historic matter can mean only one thing:  You have proven the exact opposite of what you hoped to prove.  Well??? 
~Texas Jay
http://bloodybillanderson.webs.com

It is you, Rollie, who fits your own description of me.  I suggest the webmaster delete your message which is a wholly uncalled for personal attack of name-calling directed at me.  I can prove my relationship to Letha Longley Anderson (Storm's wife) by DNA.  Yet, you cannot prove that William C. Anderson was the son of your William M. Anderson, Sr. by the same undeniable means.  Why don't you stop making personal attacks long enough to explain why you won't disclose the results of the DNA tests that you and your gang conducted over a year ago that was supposed to prove all the windies you tell in your message below?  At the time, you all boasted that they would prove that William C. Anderson of Salt Creek was the son of your William M. and not the son of Bloody Bill's father who carried the same name of "William C. Anderson".  Obviously, your silence on this important historic matter can mean only one thing:  You have proven the exact opposite of what you hoped to prove.  Well??? 
~Texas Jay

Minnesota Jay,
I suggest the webmaster delete all references on Treasurenet concerning William C. "Uncle Billy" Anderson of Brown County.  Your effort to spread the misinformation generated by Henry C. Fuller in 1924 that he was William T. "Bloody Bill" Anderson has destroyed any credibility that you ever had.

I am sorry that your tunnel vision prevents you from acknowledging the obvious facts found in official government records that Bloody Bill Anderson was killed in MO in 1864, added to the fact that your own Brown County history records the arrival of William M. Anderson, Dave Anderson, James N. Anderson, and William C. Anderson, in Brown County in 1864.  What is your problem with the truth?

Get a life, Rollie.

Other members can look at this forum to see that many others are on to Rollie Taylor's shenanigans.   

http://forums.delphiforums.com/Zeke...essages/?start=Start+Reading+%3E%3E 

~Texas Jay
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

These two forums are highly recommended for entertainment, but not for research.

Let me clear up a few of Rollie's misstatements here.  He is not a member of William C. Anderson's "extended family" but I am. My great uncle was Bill and Missouria Anderson's son Storm Anderson and was married to my great aunt Letha Longley Anderson who I knew very well until she died in 1979.

~Texas Jay
http://bloodybillanderson.webs.com  - here is what William C. "Bloody Bill" Anderson told Brownwood Banner-Bulletin staff writer Henry C. Fuller in 1924.  Remember, these are not my words.  They are the words of the man who they wrongly claim was "related" to them.  
[/quote]

If Minnesota Jay were a competent genealogist, perhaps he might have searched census and vital records and avoided embarrassing himself by stating that I was not an Anderson descendant.  Both William Columbus Anderson and I are descendants of Noble Anderson, born 1769 in Pennsylvania.  He might have clarified that his relationship to the Anderson family is by virtue of the marriage of a great aunt, and that he is not really a member of the Anderson family.  He didn't even know that his great-aunt had married a son of William C. Anderson until a descendant of the Stone County Andersons told him.  There is so much he doesn't know about my Anderson family.

Let me clear up a few of Rollie's misstatements here.  He is not a member of William C. Anderson's "extended family" but I am. My great uncle was Bill and Missouria Anderson's son Storm Anderson and was married to my great aunt Letha Longley Anderson who I knew very well until she died in 1979.

~Texas Jay~  

If Minnesota Jay were a competent genealogist, perhaps he might have searched census and vital records and avoided embarrassing himself by stating that I was not an Anderson descendant.  Both William Columbus Anderson and I are descendants of Noble Anderson, born 1769 in Pennsylvania.  He might have clarified that his relationship to the Anderson family is by virtue of the marriage of a great aunt, and that he is not really a member of the Anderson family.  He didn't even know that his great-aunt had married a son of William C. Anderson until a descendant of the Stone County Andersons told him.  There is so much he doesn't know about my Anderson family.
[/quote]
Rollie, you said "he didn't even know that his great-aunt married a son of William C Anderson. There is so much he doesn't know about my Anderson family."
Here is one reason.....he rejects records, documents and photos of your and his great aunt's Anderson family going back to 1860 as tampered with, altered, and stolen, by census takers, libraries, museums, and family members.
With one exception....he accepts your Anderson cousin's fairly recent news to him that his great aunt married the son of the man he promotes as Bloody Bill. This, he embraces.

He has no use for any other Anderson family member, or their research, calling them his enemies!

Now, if you were to produce a map to a KGC treasure your Andersons hid under a floorboard in his old barn you were willing to share......

Fran