florida shipwreck laws

can anyone give me the real truth to the current state of obtaining a exploratory lease for a underwater area.. is the state giving them? i know they say yes ye yes but is it selective.. meaning if they like u or not. they claim there is no moritorium but seems like there still is. no new leases being granted... i heard they were saying yes we grant leases but deny everyone assumingi they dont like ur archealogist or team or diver etc.. ? can anyone shed light.. thanks... the recent fisher wreck expansion site caught my eye... god i hate modern day government...we need a revolution in this country..isnt that what happen with england why we defected? england got greedy went beyond their reach of power..? we branced off. well im ready to branch off and make my own laws too lol

Doubloonhunter, welcome aboard TreasureNet! I have a link for you to follow that should get you headed in the right direction. I also have some PDF files with the State of Florida requirements that I may be able to email you with more information. However, the cold hard truth is that the State of Florida DHR is less than cooperative with treasure hunters these days. Yes, you can still get exploration leases, but that seems to be about it these days.

http://www.flheritage.com/archaeology/underwater/laws.cfm

Tom

sure you can get look and find permits --no problem so long as you got thru the "process" pay a buncha fees and give over copys of all the data you collect to the state as part of the cost of doing bussiness -- now however when you ask for the actual "recovery" permits so you can "actually" recover things to sale and make that dirty word --"profiets" ---well thats a "NO"-- sorry you can not have one of those "permits" for "whatever reason" --pick one of many BS reasons

so if you like to spend money on "research" permits and data collection to assist the state of florida ( you must share the info you get as part of the permitting "process" with the state of florida) ---without any hopes of ever turning a fiscal profiet , then by all means --apply for exploration (research) permits to your hearts desire .

its a sort of crooked shell game they play --the old multi permit hustle * let you have all the permits you need but the last one * the all important "actually recovery" permit --in the meanwhile  folks gather lots and lots of free data for the state of florida while doing "research"--plus paying fees for  those "research" permits and giving lots of free info to the state with nothing in return fiscally -- basically its a flim flam game run by the state arch dept. and sooner or later its going to wind up in court -- most likely on the grounds of of illegal restraint of trade and not acting "in good faith" with the fisher case court agreement that stated that the state of florida had to set up a  "permitting" process whereby --permits would be issued in the future *-- via various means the state has not issued any new "harvest permits" for new wrecks many many years -- as a matter of fact --its very clear they do not really intend to issue new permits because their lack of issuing any for the last 20 years -- and is something that the various archies type both those with the state and others in the "college and private sector" brag about bring "proud of". --so clearly it not by "accident" but by design that this has occured.

All the treasure hunters that have a search permit but were denied a salvage permit need to get together and file a law suit against the state. If there is enough of you, you might be able to get "class action status." This would really be a wake up call. I don't know why you guys don't do this. You might even be able to get your court costs reimbursed.

Tom. Ivan and Pete, Everything you say is true. How did the state acquire so much power over us? These folks have the ear of Tallahasee because they are there. Being funded by our money, they work against us. In reality, they are a very small group, much smaller than us. What they have that we don't, is the time to keep harping their interests. They can lobby on government time.
I like your idea Pete, sue them! The only problem here is money. Usually the guys that put up the money for all the permits are pretty much like the rest of us...broke. Now if somebody like "Biker Lawyer" for example wanted to take up the cause I'll donate a hundred bucks to the lawsuit. I know thats not much, but it's all I can afford. If some others would do the same, maybe we could actually come up with enough to make a difference.
Any ideas?

Aquanut

State legislature.

First, this area is not a democracy.

There's bound to be a state legislator that is sympathetic; get to him and see what he says.

All the salvage companys that spent thousands on research and searching. Well, they can spend a little bit more on litigation.

Bum Luck,
You got anybody in mind? The whole damn political system is about "what can you do for me"! It's no longer about what is right, but what is politically correct and advantageous to the politician. Our numbers are few, we have little money and our purpose is not one that necessarily benefits the public. So I have to humbly submit myself as a candidate for "the People"!

Time to move this thread to the broader public!

Aquanut

Here's an idea, all of us treasure hunters with boats could cause a gridlock ( I guess on water it would be considered a blockade) at Port Canaveral. That would get some attention Lol. Do you think a sub would sink one of us?

So do we need an exploratory permit to walk in the surf with a metal detector, outside of a leased area of course?

Bum Luck,
You got anybody in mind? The whole damn political system is about "what can you do for me"! It's no longer about what is right, but what is politically correct and advantageous to the politician. Our numbers are few, we have little money and our purpose is not one that necessarily benefits the public. So I have to humbly submit myself as a candidate for "the People"!

Time to move this thread to the broader public!

Aquanut

No, I don't live in Florida, so I don't have any idea what the specific legislative landscape is, but as a general rule, just start learning about the legislators, where they are on issues, and who might be sympathetic. Google is a great tool, saving tons of time.

I hate to sentence you to get involved  , but maybe laid up with your knee, you could spend some. Archies are a fringe benefit to society, and they may not get seen as essential by all.

Feel free to PM me, since typing is a chore for this coordination impaired fellow.

being my first post here, howdy hello hi all glad to greet ya.

I think the laws against what we do in the waters are unfortunate which also create modern day pirates of booty.  it's Florida's own fault when they lose critical documentation of these items recovered from shipwrecks, its the simple fact of...ok picture yourself in the water and spot a shiny gold coin lying right on top of the sand...so...what you can't touch it nor pocket it and resell for personal gain? isn't that what this country was built on? So you must just leave it there!?!  It's not the U.S.'s treasure anyways (most of it). Ridiculous.  Freedom shall prevail and i'd love to see a full out lawsuit.  


oh and i love the Port Canaveral blockade statement lol im down for it!

Hi Plat and welcome to Tnet. Where are you located?

Welcome aboard TreasureNet Plat! and welcome to the fight. Our Representatives in Tallahassee and in Washington have lost their way. We need to use our power and vote them all out of office. Everyone can start by asking the questions of the candidates running for office their position on issues related to treasure hunting in general and specifically on the current laws in the State that you hunt. Find a candidate who supports your position and throw him or her your support.

Tom

can anyone give me the real truth to the current state of obtaining a exploratory lease for a underwater area.. is the state giving them? i know they say yes ye yes but is it selective.. meaning if they like u or not. they claim there is no moritorium but seems like there still is. no new leases being granted... i heard they were saying yes we grant leases but deny everyone assumingi they dont like ur archealogist or team or diver etc.. ? can anyone shed light.. thanks... the recent fisher wreck expansion site caught my eye... god i hate modern day government...we need a revolution in this country..isnt that what happen with england why we defected? england got greedy went beyond their reach of power..? we branced off. well im ready to branch off and make my own laws too lol

I didn’t know the Fishers expanded their lease area. If so in what direction?

The Fishers have either sold their admiralty rights on the 1715 fleet to another party, or signed over the management rights to them. (see Terry's link on the 1715 subcontractor meeting post in "shipwrecks")

Are you talking about their E-89 area to the north (which was actually "expanded" more than 12 years ago) or the extension into the south Power Plant area?

Tom

Hi Plat and welcome to Tnet. Where are you located?

Thanks.  Not far from you actually, Safety Harbor, FL

The Fishers have either sold their admiralty rights on the 1715 fleet to another party, or signed over the management rights to them. (see Terry's link on the 1715 subcontractor meeting post in "shipwrecks")

Are you talking about their E-89 area to the north (which was actually "expanded" more than 12 years ago) or the extension into the south Power Plant area?

Tom

I don't know the gentleman who started this thread wrote "the recent fisher wreck expansion site caught my eye" so thats my question...what recent wreck expantion site?

The two I mentioned are the only 'recent' expansions on the east coast.

It is almost unbelievable what has happened to us. I have bumped heads with the bureaucrats for years. Its a long story. Its a horror story, but the bottom line is they want you out, and they believe the means justifies the end.  Lie, cheat, steal, squander tax money, a bureaucrat has no honor, integrity, or self respect.  If they did, they would earn a living.  Bottom line, you have two choices in life. Earn a living or get a government check.  Mel Fisher was in Federal Court 113 times. If not for his tenacity we would already be out.  Men like Mel, Art McKee, Jack Haskins, D.L. Chaney, led the way for the rest of us. These men were screwed time after time, but still persevered. Washington D.C. has screwed us illegally many times. Bill Bradley, Ted kennedy, Jim Wright, LLoyd Bensen, Yes, and even Ronald Regan screwed us. Lately it has been George Bush senior, Bill Clinton and his hatchet person Janet Reno. I never did think she was the best man for the job. When they are sworn in, they swear to uphold the Constitution, but once they are in the Constitution means absolutely NOTHING. They are power happy, money grubbing, immoral, criminal, lying, whore mongerring, sons of bitches. All of them. November 2nd is the last chance to save the Country, and hopefully our right as Treasure Hunters.  In Washington D.C. its a CLUB.  They are all members.  None of them has you interest at heart.  Capt. Carl Fismer

Welcome aboard Carl! I've heard your stories for years and am really pleased you've joined us! I even got to see you recently on Pawn Stars of all places. Now, about your post. Don't sugar coat your feelings, you can open up and say exactly what you're feeling on this forum.
Aquanut

Great post John. And HEY FIZZ, what do you do, fly to LA everytime they need a coin appraised? Whats happening with that wreck off Sarasota? Are you working it? I want to dive it. Send me a PM. I'm good friends with your buddy's son, Steve McAdoo.

Hi Guys,

I live near Cincinnati, never even scuba dived before(will be trying it out next year) and I am ticked off with the way you are being systematically denied your rights to salvage/t-hunt! Someone hit the nail on the head...its the University professors(doctorates) that are getting paid with our tax money and they sit around and lobby (getting paid for it) on our dime thinking of ways to keep you out of the water! There has to be some kind of meeting of the minds, otherwise we should lobby that no university professor could receive money for doing research unless they had a treasure hunter along whose salary comes out of their grant! Yes turn the tables on them...may sound idealistic, but all we have to do is follow their trail of legislation and do the same thing as they have done.

There has to be some wealthy t-hunters that would help if you have a solid plan of attack! I teach at UC and am one of the few that will be voting to clear the mess in DC this November!

Well, I think the mid term election results shook a few trees in DC. It's kind of a mixed blessing, but only time will tell.

I'd like to think that our new Governor Rick Scott having the private sector business background that he does, would be in our corner on the salvage business here in our State, but again, the proof is in action, not promises.

 

Reef Dawg

PS - You go FIZZ MAN!

well in 1763 spain by a war ending piece treaty with england gave every thing it owned everything EAST of the mississippi * to england --- thus legally in effect abandoning all ownership of goods (which included florida and its "local" waters ) now the virginia state courts gave the juno to spain -- since it was sank after 1763 and thus was not effected  by the 1763 agreement --- never mind that spain regained florida 20 years later in 1783 from england after england lost the war with the american colonies * -- because once spain "abandoned" their claim of ownership in 1763 thats it --you can not abandon some thing then "unabandon it" 20 years later --once those rights of ownership were given up --thats it --so any wreck lost before 1763 by spain in florida waters was in effect abandobed by spain cedeing all ownership and claims to land east of the mississippi to england -- the normal territorial waters of the land that was ceded by spain and what was in them offically went to england --thus spain had no more "rights:" to them --- unless its a "warship"

another odd bit --president clinton  on  nov 23rd ,1993 signed a  public law 103 150 * --stating the the US igovt basically assisted in the theft of hawaii's rights as a nation --and illegally forced them into statehood -- by united nations rules --the vote for statehood should have had 3 choices -- independence --stay territory or statehood --the US only offered two choices --territory or statehood  * thus that too was illegal according to the un rules--- as such hawaii is not honestly and truely a "legal" state -- its actually a foreign country * where the current president was born at . ---as such he was not"legally"  born on american soil and since his mother had in the past given up her citizenship and his father never was a citizen --hes not legally allowed to be in office as president -- since offically hes not really a native born american citizen or the child of one  which is required by law --opps

the recent fisher wreck expansion site caught my eye... god i hate modern day government...we need a revolution in this country..isn't that what happen with England why we defected? England got greedy went beyond their reach of power..? we branched off. well im ready to branch off and make my own laws too lol

I wouldn't say branch, but I'm definitely a TWIG! 

It is almost unbelievable what has happened to us. I have bumped heads with the bureaucrats for years. Its a long story. Its a horror story, but the bottom line is they want you out, and they believe the means justifies the end.  Lie, cheat, steal, squander tax money, a bureaucrat has no honor, integrity, or self respect.  If they did, they would earn a living.  Bottom line, you have two choices in life. Earn a living or get a government check.  Mel Fisher was in Federal Court 113 times. If not for his tenacity we would already be out.  Men like Mel, Art McKee, Jack Haskins, D.L. Chaney, led the way for the rest of us. These men were screwed time after time, but still persevered. Washington D.C. has screwed us illegally many times. Bill Bradley, Ted kennedy, Jim Wright, LLoyd Bensen, Yes, and even Ronald Regan screwed us. Lately it has been George Bush senior, Bill Clinton and his hatchet person Janet Reno. I never did think she was the best man for the job. When they are sworn in, they swear to uphold the Constitution, but once they are in the Constitution means absolutely NOTHING. They are power happy, money grubbing, immoral, criminal, lying, whore mongerring, sons of bitches. All of them. November 2nd is the last chance to save the Country, and hopefully our right as Treasure Hunters.  In Washington D.C. its a CLUB.  They are all members.  None of them has you interest at heart.  Capt. Carl Fismer

Of course we can trust the USA goverment  and the state of FL  just ask the native americans..... I too would kick in 100 towards a law suit in federal court. But I know it cost around 100.000 to get into federal court.

The entire Florida state Republican party is under investigation for coruption: http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/corporate/article1137653.ece

What else do you expect?

The entire Florida state Republican party is under investigation for coruption: http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/corporate/article1137653.ece

What else do you expect?

I'm not shocked to see it from the Republicans, wouldn't be shocked to see it from the Democrats, either. The whole system has become one of lies, where shrewd people in positions of power divide up social ideas to gain support of the rabble, while hijacking the real power behind closed doors, boiling the frog.

poly --greek word meaning many              tick's -- blood sucking pests

polyticks -- politics -- self explainatory

the two "party" system is failed -- both sides have long ago sold their souls to the various money / power brokers --aka as "the powers that be" the puppet masters who run the "show" -- no one has been for " WE the people" the bulk of the US citizens --the working class for a long long time.

and brother thats the root of the problem.

  Just once I'd like to see at least a 75 - 80% decline in voter turnout. The system is outdated and voting changes nothing, it just serves to insure that the same corrupted system remains in place. Given the current corrupt condition of the system, it needs to return to laws being changed in order to get those votes, not promises of change after the fact with no accountability. 

poly --greek word meaning many              tick's -- blood sucking pests

polyticks -- politics -- self explainatory

the two "party" system is failed -- both sides have long ago sold their souls to the various money / power brokers --aka as "the powers that be" the puppet masters who run the "show" -- no one has been for " WE the people" the bulk of the US citizens --the working class for a long long time.

and brother thats the root of the problem.

Ivan. You always manage to get to the "root" of the problem!
Aquanut

Im interested in this,but know nothing but what i read here. I hope somewhere in this email. That i can help you in some small way.Their seems like a few of you guys that are really into this. This has effected everyone from metal detectors to people who go to fla to metal detect. We know that the goverment sucks and they grease their own hands. But theirs so much wrong and yours is just another problem without enought people who want to really do something about this. You say I have no money or this or that. If you want this that bad. Your going to have to do alot of foot work. No one else is going to do it for you. Unless it affects everyone or alot of people in the same way. We all need to change our goverment. But are we all not going to stop voting. No! Its going to be tuff to change anything. You need to put  adds in the paper ,or on radio. Make a voice and make you get noticed all the time and state what the goverment is doing with everyone lives. Not only with your area but everything. Get people fired up and get some  high up on your side who wants to get noticed. After awhile,someone will listen. If you keep making the right kind of noise. Everyone is teed off at the way things are going anyway.  So i would think now is a good time. Now if you keep at this. You might get someone to help fight for you. Maybe a up and becoming laywer. Laywers take cases for very little sometimes. They get noticed out of this and if they win. Alot of people want them. Or get a team of up and becoming laywers. These laywers  go from the bottom to the top over night. Look at o.j. s team. Thoses laywers are known now. Everyone wants change. But no one wants to get together. But the one's who really fight,get on top. It's like treasure hunting. Most can't. They have kids,work and these times are hard. But until someone is willing to do the work,and know what their doing. I feel this is going to fall by the way side until the explorer or fisher spends the money to pay their way.The explore just was hired by a country to find a wreck. Work together is best. You say fisher is looking for another ship. Well why he is telling everyone about this .[ He was a smart man before he was a treasure hunter].  Some kind of newspaper. He is putting this in print even before he has found this ship. That put this in everyones minds ahead of his fight. You know once the word is out. It travels fast.It seemed like mel the chicken farmer was a smart man when it came to getting what he wanted. I read he would drop coins on the floor and the investers along with himself would pick them up. But the coins mel picked. Mel would keep dropping and let the invester think their was more coins. The invester thought their was more coins because two people are picking them up. And mel was throwing his back and saying oh theirs another one over their. You need to fight fire with fire.Theirs some good ideas out their. But until someone wants to work at them. Nothing is going to happen. You can write on forums get a few on your side. But its going to take one person who want to really work at this.Im not downing anyone. I think the goverment needs helps. Just look at the mess were in now. Money seems to talk. But if you get the right people involved who want to get noticed,along with someone taking charge and doing the foot work. Were in trouble. Wish the best to you all.Hope this helps in some way.

poly --greek word meaning many              tick's -- blood sucking pests

polyticks -- politics -- self explainatory

the two "party" system is failed -- both sides have long ago sold their souls to the various money / power brokers --aka as "the powers that be" the puppet masters who run the "show" -- no one has been for " WE the people" the bulk of the US citizens --the working class for a long long time.

and brother thats the root of the problem.

Roger Waters - the lead singer from Pink Floyd wrote and recorded a song "THE POWERS THAT BE". He describes it perfect.
Good luck to "ANYBODY OUT THERE".