My best game piece yet! I need to be thankful for the rain!!!

more info on post #63
just when i discovered that my tomatoes have some early blight on them
i go on a walk to try to shake the bad news
next thing i find this huge game piece, the best i've ever found
i'm glad i had my camera with
lars

Wow!  Nice!

Chuck

That's a great find. Congrats!
Newt

Very cool find!

That is amazing!! It's a beautiful piece for sure. Congrats!!

Great find...Congrats... Got my banner vote...

hey ron, thanks for the banner vote!
steve

Where do you live? Where EXACTLY do you live LOL. 

Where do you live? Where EXACTLY do you live LOL. 

 And, where exactly do you live and what time exactly are you leaving to pay Lars' garden a visit?

 what is a game piece native American???

Would someone please tell me what this is?

this needs no explanation

just when i discovered that my tomatoes have some early blight on them
i go on a walk to try to shake the bad news
next thing i find this huge game piece, the best i've ever found
i'm glad i had my camera with
lars

Where do you live? Where EXACTLY do you live LOL. 

 And, where exactly do you live and what time exactly are you leaving to pay Lars' garden a visit?

 

Lars, CONGRATULATIONS on making banner!!!!!!!!!!! 

Well done

Looks to me like LOTS of bones in that first picture....

Ok...I'm a little --deleted--.  What makes you think it is a game piece as apposed to a piece of adornment?

Very nice find in amazing condition!

Killer find Steve. Those Game Pieces you guys find are really cool. I wish we had those around here. We have the decorated Stone Discs, but nothing like yours or you Bone items. Very cool.

Also, I know what you mean about the rains. I hit my spot this afternoon and found another killer Pipe. I'm going to post pics real soon. I got a great in situ picture. Best part, someone had walked within 18 inches of it sometime this morning after the rains and obviously didn't see it.

how comes Alot of people posting an Item assumes everyone in the world knows exactly what they have found... to me it looks like a dirty rock/bones with some type of scratching on it... Please be more descriptive then this need no explanation..  Don't know why this would be on the banner

Congrats to the MAX my friend...I am super happy for you....What a awesome piece....

Ok I hear ya...
1...game pieces are pretty rare
2...That one is huge for a game piece
3...And it's in super great shape
Just a great artifact...

What a find!  Well deserved Banner!

artorius

how comes Alot of people posting an Item assumes everyone in the world knows exactly what they have found... to me it looks like a dirty rock/bones with some type of scratching on it... Please be more descriptive then this need no explanation..  Don't know why this would be on the banner

seemed to make the banner in 5 posts & no votes   (less than 300 views)& no explaination as to age or anything other than a gaming piece, so I guess Victorian

It's a little older than that...It is a Woodland era piece....Mandan peoples make....I am gonna see about how old it could be......brb

It's a little older than that...It is a Woodland era piece....Mandan peoples make....I am gonna see about how old it could be......brb

I realise that, it was tongue in cheek.  My point is, that the banner makes no sense sometimes, in terms of how it works.

I'm not belittling the find, which if I understood more (Explaination needed, ie never assume), I might learn & vote & appreciate.

Har sorry I sometimes skip over the obvious..lol...I can't find the time window that woodland falls into.(But I am sure somebody will know)

It's a little older than that...It is a Woodland era piece....Mandan peoples make....I am gonna see about how old it could be......brb

I realise that, it was tongue in cheek.  My point is, that the banner makes no sense sometimes, in terms of how it works.

I'm not belittling the find, which if I understood more (Explaination needed, ie never assume), I might learn & vote & appreciate.

Yes, please explain to us Yanks here on the east coast what the significance is of the piece.  I am curious what they were used for, and by whom.

Congrats on your banner.  I am sure it is well deserved.

It's a little older than that...It is a Woodland era piece....Mandan peoples make....I am gonna see about how old it could be......brb

I realise that, it was tongue in cheek.  My point is, that the banner makes no sense sometimes, in terms of how it works.

I'm not belittling the find, which if I understood more (Explaination needed, ie never assume), I might learn & vote & appreciate.

Yes, please explain to us Yanks here on the east coast what the significance is of the piece.  I am curious what they were used for, and by whom.

Congrats on your banner.  I am sure it is well deserved.

Exactly, I would love to understand the game & use etc

PS, I am in no way implying it doesn't deserve to be there, as I'm sure it will be explained soon.  I know sometimes I fall into the trap of not giving all the details (always answer every question though), as I think its a fine balance of not giving all the details of every piece in my post as it would be too long to read & put people off.  But if its just 1 item then the more the better

Reminds me of a dominoes piece.

I believe:

1.  They are ignoring those of us posting "what is this item"
2.  They are just being smart alek and not answering the question asked by several.


I'm sure that whatever this item is it is cool because someone put it on the banner, but I have NO clue what it is supposed to be or actually is.

I still need to do some learnin as well here are some links.

http://www.nps.gov/archive/knri/teach/games.htm

http://www.legendsofamerica.com/NA-Mandan.html

http://www.pbs.org/lewisandclark/native/man.html

I hope that will help some..I know it will for me..I am from M.D. and new to Texas and Artifactin...I knew nothing about "Those who came before us".Untill I started to look for artifacts....It kills me to think that I was deep into Clovis country back east....But I do pretty well where I am ....I really dont know much about the mid-west and such...So it is really nice to see such fine artifacts..Bone does not last long here,so I like to see and learn from them...sorry for the Rammblin...lol...Neo

I am not tryin to be a smart Alic..I am truly trying to help....If you dno't know about artifacts..just ask and folks will try to help....

I don't metal detect....But they get all happy when finding metal stuff(buckles,buttons..etc)For me they are too new to get that happy about...But thats just me....Some of the stone artifacts are thousands of years old.

I am not trying to start anything...neo

how comes Alot of people posting an Item assumes everyone in the world knows exactly what they have found... to me it looks like a dirty rock/bones with some type of scratching on it... Please be more descriptive then this need no explanation..  Don't know why this would be on the banner

Well, if it's from the woodland period it's 1000-2000 years old. A human scratched those marks on there that long ago. It's in great shape and worth some bucks and deserves the banner.

It's a little older than that...It is a Woodland era piece....Mandan peoples make....I am gonna see about how old it could be......brb

It's a historic piece, the Mandan tribe lived well into the 19th century in parts of S.D. That's why the bone Larson finds is in the shape it's in, alot of it is much less than 200 years old. This doesn't take away from it being a great find, but I'm not sure if I'd call it a banner, jmo.


Hey neo are you now Lars official spokesman or something?


No offense to anyone but the whole banner finds system really tends to bring out the worst in folks, you know greed, lying, envy, and all that great stuff...jmho.

Looks to me like LOTS of bones in that first picture....

He's probably in an indian camp. There would be lots of bones there.

way to go larson! I love coming home and seeing an artifact banner! I knew it was yours, before I read about it. As said before, older than most metal treasures(here in America), a glimpse into a peoples' way of life that wasn't written down or documented. these dirty bones and rocks tell so much. And, a nice guy with a unique opportunity, willing to share what he learns. Banner! What a great time to learn different types of treasures

So what is it?

nice peice, congrates on banner

It's a little older than that...It is a Woodland era piece....Mandan peoples make....I am gonna see about how old it could be......brb

It's a historic piece, the Mandan tribe lived well into the 19th century in parts of S.D. That's why the bone Larson finds is in the shape it's in, alot of it is much less than 200 years old. This doesn't take away from it being a great find, but I'm not sure if I'd call it a banner, jmo.


Hey neo are you now Lars official spokesman or something?


No offense to anyone but the whole banner finds system really tends to bring out the worst in folks, you know greed, lying, envy, and all that great stuff...jmho.

When a find is explained we all learn something: at least now I know this is a Mandan Indian game piece less than 200 hundred years old in nice shape. Banner Anyway nice find Larson sorry about your Tomatoes.

Congrats on find Steve & making banner..

Molly.

    Hey neo are you now Lars official spokesman or something?


Har... sure why not...he is a good guy,& I was just trying to be helpful..

Because it is a rare artifact....I collect them and you hardly see ones that size,in that shape.
I don't collect coins,so to me a coin is a coin.But to you it is rare and wonderful..

Banner aside..it is great artifact and should be recognized as such..

Lars - Congratulations on your find and your well deserved banner.  That piece is AWESOME!  Your finds since I've been on here are some of the best I've ever seen, anywhere.  If I was in your garden I'd be in a constant state of sensory overload.  Great job man. 

Hey neo are you now Lars official spokesman or something?


No offense to anyone but the whole banner finds system really tends to bring out the worst in folks, you know greed, lying, envy, and all that great stuff...jmho.

 
Har... sure why not...he is a good guy,& I was just trying to be helpful..

Thanks for explaining Neo   (since nobody else would).

Nice find  but exactly what determines that is a game piece is there similar finds in the past ? are they documented ,excuse all my questions but ancient American artifacts are new to me Congrats on Banner Dd60

 Bone artifacts are rare as they decompose pretty quick. When found they often show incised lines or decorations on them. Larson found one in very good shape from an area where people lived off the buffalo. Game stones were made by many ancient cultures and most found are made out of stone. Some end up being drilled all the way through and worn and are called gorgets. It can get tricky on I.D with out a written history.They gambled and traded with items like these because there was no currency. It is Art and craftsmanship in the stone age.
 Items like this are similar to say CW/US belt buckle or in coins a rare copper or a key date Indian head a nice reale or a good gold ring out of a tot lot.
 The value of one in that condition could possibly buy a couple metal detectors 
Neo gave a good link in that link was a better explanation of items like this in that particular culture. I do not know why everyone did not try to help explain this so you would know what is on your banner bar. There have been hundreds of artifact items that are banner worthy roll by unnoticed. I guess Jeff thought it would be nice to have an ancient artifact rolling by. Here is some from the link:
Young women sat on the ice wrapped in buffalo robes and played gambling games. A common one was played by two teams with two to eight players each. As in many such amusements, the object was to slide a game piece to a goal. In this case, a bone thrower made from a buffalo vertebra was used to propel the gaming piece towards the goal, which was a piece of wood about three inches long, notched at each end and painted red. The game piece itself was either a flat, circular river pebble or a small, square piece of buffalo vertebra. Such bone pieces were usually decorated with two carved lines stretching from corner to corner and crossing in the center.
Hope this helps    Nice find Larson. Congratulations !!
TnMtns

how comes Alot of people posting an Item assumes everyone in the world knows exactly what they have found... to me it looks like a dirty rock/bones with some type of scratching on it... Please be more descriptive then this need no explanation..  Don't know why this would be on the banner

  Exactly a seated coin does not make banner why should this whatever 

I vote underdogger Cry-baby of the year award. Congratulations!

  You can see a seated just so many times right? 1253 on e-bay right now. Not one buffalo bone game stone though. Duhhhh !!

If it's going to be displayed in the banner then I wish you would answer this question for the rest of us metal detectorists.......

WHAT  IS  IT ??                  

Congrats, nice bone piece.  I always enjoy seeing your finds.

If it's going to be displayed in the banner then I wish you would answewr this question for the rest of us metal detectorists.......

WHAT  IS  IT ??

lol  it should have come earlier but 3 posts above TnMountains explains it pretty well and also read NeoGeos links. Its a Plains Indian game piece.

Congrats to Larson.

If it's going to be displayed in the banner then I wish you would answewr this question for the rest of us metal detectorists.......

WHAT  IS  IT ??

lol  it should have come earlier but 3 posts above TnMountains explains it pretty well and also read NeoGeos links. Its a Plains Indian game piece.

Congrats to Larson.

OK got it.. I wish Larson would have put a better description in after it made banner. I know nothing about indian stuff, I thought it was a piece of scrimshaw or a whales tooth.  

[AMERICAN INDIAN ARTIFACTS section]

Larson does a good job keeping the AMERICAN INDIAN ARTIFACTS section updated. This piece might not be the best thing posted lately, but it is a great addition to T-Net. I posted a point quite a while ago and personally didn't think it was a banner find, but I appreciated the notation. Let's give larson the credit he deserves. I'll check back frequently to see a comparable piece. If I see one, I'll vote banner again.

Larson,
Please keep posting-even the meager finds. I for one, will always enjoy what you post. You have a great site and please don't let the Babel take that away from your posts. I for one, appreciate them.
Newt

Most excellent find...I have a game piece too, but nothing like this.  Congrats on the find and the banner

  RR

[AMERICAN INDIAN ARTIFACTS section]

Larson does a good job keeping the AMERICAN INDIAN ARTIFACTS section updated. This piece might not be the best thing posted lately, but it is a great addition to T-Net. I posted a point quite a while ago and personally didn't think it was a banner find, but I appreciated the notation. Let's give larson the credit he deserves. I'll check back frequently to see a comparable piece. If I see one, I'll vote banner again.

Larson,
Please keep posting-even the meager finds. I for one, will always enjoy what you post. You have a great site and please don't let the Babel take that away from your posts. I for one, appreciate them.
Newt

Hear-hear!! It's as banner worthy as any metal whatchamacallit. I for one wondered why the bone points, or the squash knife, or the awesome side-notched bird points didn't get banner mention.  Bone artifacts simply don't exist where I am, and I am amazed by the variety of stuff you post!

mike

If it's going to be displayed in the banner then I wish you would answewr this question for the rest of us metal detectorists.......

WHAT  IS  IT ??

lol  it should have come earlier but 3 posts above TnMountains explains it pretty well and also read NeoGeos links. Its a Plains Indian game piece.

Congrats to Larson.

OK got it.. I wish Larson would have put a better description in after it made banner. I know nothing about indian stuff, I thought it was a piece of scrimshaw or a whales tooth.  

He is in planting time so he may still be out on the tractor working and not seen the commotion.

[AMERICAN INDIAN ARTIFACTS section]

Larson does a good job keeping the AMERICAN INDIAN ARTIFACTS section updated. This piece might not be the best thing posted lately, but it is a great addition to T-Net. I posted a point quite a while ago and personally didn't think it was a banner find, but I appreciated the notation. Let's give larson the credit he deserves. I'll check back frequently to see a comparable piece. If I see one, I'll vote banner again.

Larson,
Please keep posting-even the meager finds. I for one, will always enjoy what you post. You have a great site and please don't let the Babel take that away from your posts. I for one, appreciate them.
Newt

Hear-hear!! It's as banner worthy as any metal whatchamacallit. I for one wondered why the bone points, or the squash knife, or the awesome side-notched bird points didn't get banner mention.  Bone artifacts simply don't exist where I am, and I am amazed by the variety of stuff you post!
mike

My point exactly. He's found "bird" points that would be in the center of my collection. I know the frequency might be greater out west, but I don't hunt there. I'm in the south and a "Bird" point is something to be proud of.
Newt

I hear ya ...I cant find any thing like his artifacts here in Tx.I love seeing his collection,some of the best artifacts I have ever seen.Thank you Larson

Bone artifacts are rare as they decompose pretty quick. When found they often show incised lines or decorations on them. Larson found one in very good shape from an area where people lived off the buffalo. Game stones were made by many ancient cultures and most found are made out of stone. Some end up being drilled all the way through and worn and are called gorgets. It can get tricky on I.D with out a written history.They gambled and traded with items like these because there was no currency. It is Art and craftsmanship in the stone age.
 Items like this are similar to say CW/US belt buckle or in coins a rare copper or a key date Indian head a nice reale or a good gold ring out of a tot lot.
 The value of one in that condition could possibly buy a couple metal detectors 
Neo gave a good link in that link was a better explanation of items like this in that particular culture. I do not know why everyone did not try to help explain this so you would know what is on your banner bar. There have been hundreds of artifact items that are banner worthy roll by unnoticed. I guess Jeff thought it would be nice to have an ancient artifact rolling by. Here is some from the link:
Young women sat on the ice wrapped in buffalo robes and played gambling games. A common one was played by two teams with two to eight players each. As in many such amusements, the object was to slide a game piece to a goal. In this case, a bone thrower made from a buffalo vertebra was used to propel the gaming piece towards the goal, which was a piece of wood about three inches long, notched at each end and painted red. The game piece itself was either a flat, circular river pebble or a small, square piece of buffalo vertebra. Such bone pieces were usually decorated with two carved lines stretching from corner to corner and crossing in the center.
Hope this helps    Nice find Larson. Congratulations !!
TnMtns
[/quote


THANK YOU!
Carl

Fantastic artifact!!

Congrats on the banner great piece there!!!!   

I love the learning - Thanks neo and TnM and larson 

Mike

Neat find! Sorry to hear about the blight.

Ed

Bone artifacts are rare as they decompose pretty quick. When found they often show incised lines or decorations on them. Larson found one in very good shape from an area where people lived off the buffalo. Game stones were made by many ancient cultures and most found are made out of stone. Some end up being drilled all the way through and worn and are called gorgets. It can get tricky on I.D with out a written history.They gambled and traded with items like these because there was no currency. It is Art and craftsmanship in the stone age.
 Items like this are similar to say CW/US belt buckle or in coins a rare copper or a key date Indian head a nice reale or a good gold ring out of a tot lot.
 The value of one in that condition could possibly buy a couple metal detectors 
Neo gave a good link in that link was a better explanation of items like this in that particular culture. I do not know why everyone did not try to help explain this so you would know what is on your banner bar. There have been hundreds of artifact items that are banner worthy roll by unnoticed. I guess Jeff thought it would be nice to have an ancient artifact rolling by. Here is some from the link:
Young women sat on the ice wrapped in buffalo robes and played gambling games. A common one was played by two teams with two to eight players each. As in many such amusements, the object was to slide a game piece to a goal. In this case, a bone thrower made from a buffalo vertebra was used to propel the gaming piece towards the goal, which was a piece of wood about three inches long, notched at each end and painted red. The game piece itself was either a flat, circular river pebble or a small, square piece of buffalo vertebra. Such bone pieces were usually decorated with two carved lines stretching from corner to corner and crossing in the center.
Hope this helps    Nice find Larson. Congratulations !!
TnMtns

Thanks for spending the time to explain, its clearer than the links I read (which were useful, so thanks to Neo as well).  This was all that was needed at the start, to educate as all & would have put a stop on the pleading & discussions. oh well...

Now how cool is that a game piece from ancient American Natives  Thanks for the explanation on here you learn something new each day  Dd60

sorry for the lack of explanation
i was preoccupied after finding 122 tomato plants with early blight on them
i did this post in a hurry and was out working til dark, then come home and tipped over not knowing about all this activity
i am truly sorry for not spending more time initially
i sure appreciate all the comments, you are my friends.......THANK YOU for the banner votes
here is a picture of a few more game pieces, i am lucky to find one every two years but never such a big one and in exc condition
before i post the image i am putting a link here, after you click on the link scroll to page 152, figure 556

             http://books.google.com/books?id=a0...g=PA149#v=onepage&q&f=false

once again thanks much, larson

sorry for the lack of explanation
i was preoccupied after finding 122 tomato plants with early blight on them
i did this post in a hurry and was out working til dark, then come home and tipped over not knowing about all this activity
i am truly sorry for not spending more time initially
i sure appreciate all the comments, you are my friends.......THANK YOU for the banner votes
here is a picture of a few more game pieces, i am lucky to find one every two years but never such a big one and in exc condition
before i post the image i am putting a link here, after you click on the link scroll to page 152, figure 556

             http://books.google.com/books?id=a04XAAAAYAAJ&dq=the%20stone%20age%20in%20north%20america&pg=PA149#v=onepage&q&f=false

once again thanks much, larson

Thanks & sorry for the badgering, I just couldn't get my head around the lack of details for such an exciting find   But I guess thats because I don't do gardening or grow tomato's

Congrats on the cool find, Lars.  And sorry to hear about your tomatoes, I can sympathise.  All mine this year got the blight so it looks like not many nice ones this year. 

I am not tryin to be a smart Alic..I am truly trying to help....If you dno't know about artifacts..just ask and folks will try to help....

I don't metal detect....But they get all happy when finding metal stuff(buckles,buttons..etc)For me they are too new to get that happy about...But thats just me....Some of the stone artifacts are thousands of years old.

I am not trying to start anything...neo

You have my most sincere apology.  I am not trying to start anything.  I am interested in all aspects of treasure hunting but some of the areas, like this one, escape me.  I don't even know where to start researching stuff.  I have not even found one Arrow Head although I have tried several times, and yes there are arrow heads around here to find. 

Thanks for trying to explain it a little better and that is a really interesting item to find.  I have no problems with it being on the banner because apparently it is a rare find in excellent condition. 

Thanks.

Sounds like we are all good now!I was where you are now(not even knowing where to start)If you would like to start looking for artifacts,I send folk beginers sets.some brokes and what not to help ya get the feel of artifacts,and help train the eye.The next batches are goin out around the middle of the month(about the 18th)Shoot me your addy if you are interested...Neo

I believe:

1.  They are ignoring those of us posting "what is this item"
2.  They are just being smart alek and not answering the question asked by several.


I'm sure that whatever this item is it is cool because someone put it on the banner, but I have NO clue what it is supposed to be or actually is.

I get frustrated as well when folks assume we all know what an item is. I, too would like to know what the item is, and how it was used.
Ahh, I see it was ID'd.

Fantastic!
Banner!

I believe:

1.  They are ignoring those of us posting "what is this item"
2.  They are just being smart alek and not answering the question asked by several.


I'm sure that whatever this item is it is cool because someone put it on the banner, but I have NO clue what it is supposed to be or actually is.

Only finds that are posted in the "Todays finds" are eligible for the banner.... Things in "What is it" are NOT.
Also although people vote for an object to be placed on the banner, its the moderator(s) who really chooses (I think)...

thanks jonzey
once again sorry for this delay
i'm thinking if all this super wet and cool weather hadn't given me the early blight i don't think i would have that game piece
now the question is; are 122 tomato plants worth that piece? my answer is... YES!
when i went to find more plants this morn the lady at the plant store said "steve, since i know that you give all of your produce away just stop by
  on thursday morning and i will give you all the plants i have left as i am closing on july 1rst," she took me in back and showed me over 200 plants and
   said, "you can have all of these if you like"....................... sometimes things have a funny way of working out
here is a link to a page of images of some more game pieces......click on the link and go to page 16 also a picture of all of the game pieces i have found in the last 25 years of hunting the surface in my same field
lars

PS: these links are material that the good man named 'COTEAU'  found for us

WOWZERS!!!!!thanx for the look..

Lars,
Great find and congrats on the well deserved banner.

I just read the entire post and learned quite a bit.  I'm into metal detecting and I've never found an arrowhead but I think I'm going to take my seven year old out in the next week or so.  I think she will get a big kick out of it.

Now since I have tomato plants in my backyard I have to go research blight...  

Thanks
NJ

great find lars!!!! how do u get any work done , with all them artifacts layin around. love lookin at your finds.

Amazing find, I would love to find one but I am not familiar with these artifacts at all, god knows how many times I may have walked right past them at old Indian and colonial sites but come on guys, for 1-2k years old that's pretty crappy technology and workmanship considering when you compare it to what was going on in Rome and other regions of the world at that time.  Still a rare and great find though.

Amazing find, I would love to find one but I am not familiar with these artifacts at all, god knows how many times I may have walked right past them at old Indian and colonial sites but come on guys, for 1-2k years old that's pretty crappy technology and workmanship considering when you compare it to what was going on in Rome and other regions of the world at that time.  Still a rare and great find though.

 Apples to Oranges. Kinda like comparing the Flintstone's to the Jetson's. Stone age technology was not crappy. It was very successful here from Mastodon's and extinctions on to that buffalo game piece. Rome was only what? 2763 bp. Look on this board and you will see 12,000 + bp items posted made by... man. So while say a Roman coin is a fabulous find and great historic item in the big scheme of things, being man made, it not really that old at all. Though I sure enjoy seeing them posted and learning about them.

Amazing find, I would love to find one but I am not familiar with these artifacts at all, god knows how many times I may have walked right past them at old Indian and colonial sites but come on guys, for 1-2k years old that's pretty crappy technology and workmanship considering when you compare it to what was going on in Rome and other regions of the world at that time.  Still a rare and great find though.

 Apples to Oranges. Kinda like comparing the Flintstone's to the Jetson's. Stone age technology was not crappy. It was very successful here from Mastodon's and extinctions on to that buffalo game piece. Rome was only what? 2763 bp. Look on this board and you will see 12,000 + bp items posted made by... man. So while say a Roman coin is a fabulous find and great historic item in the big scheme of things, being man made, it not really that old at all. Though I sure enjoy seeing them posted and learning about them.

They stated these particular objects where 1,000 to 2,000 years old.  So Rome would be the older of the two.  Now if it is 12,000 + years I will retract my criticism about the crudity of their skill.

It is only crude relative to the technology available to the culture.  If it were made in Rome at its peak then it would certainly be crude.  The technology available to the Roman Empire was a culmination of conquest of many cultures then adapted and refined over thousands of years.  The people in the Americas did not have the same opportunities to develop tech as there was no injection of foreign ideas etc.  There technology was handed down generation to generation and evolved much slower.  So, age is not the determining factor, or shouldn't be in this case.  jmho.

thats a killer game piece , have you ever dug below the plow zone to see what turns up

It is only crude relative to the technology available to the culture.  If it were made in Rome at its peak then it would certainly be crude.  The technology available to the Roman Empire was a culmination of conquest of many cultures then adapted and refined over thousands of years.  The people in the Americas did not have the same opportunities to develop tech as there was no injection of foreign ideas etc.  There technology was handed down generation to generation and evolved much slower.  So, age is not the determining factor, or shouldn't be in this case.  jmho.

IMO technology is a series of trial and errors.  You see a need for something and you sit down and think up a way to build something new or improve upon something existing.  You don't need other cultures for this.  The Romans while they did take some technology from other civilizations created much of it on their own just as the Egyptians did etc.  While it helped them advance faster it by no means was their basis.  Besides the Indians where not one people, they were many different tribes with many different cultures just as we where. 

come on guys, for 1-2k years old that's pretty crappy technology and workmanship considering when you compare it to what was going on in Rome and other regions of the world at that time.  

Apples to oranges. The pre-Colombian Florida Indians did not even have flint. They made their points from bone, antler and sharks teeth. They used what was available to them with what technology they knew. And they did quite well. In the 1500's, the Indians salvaged gold and silver from Spanish shipwrecks which they learned to melt and rework.  Im sure if metals were introduced to the Plains Indians, they would have been using it. It just didnt happen until a later date.

Thanks everyone for all the interesting observations
no jeff i don't do any digging
thanks'
steve

congrats on making the banner !!

Why the --deleted-- a bunch of know-nothings have to argue when a KILLER Artifact makes the banner I will Never know.  And if they can't argue the Monetary Value or Rarity of something, they want to try and call it crude, primitive, or unskilled in its workmanship.  Those folks should try their hand at flint knapping and see how far they get.    Seriously--the rudeness is TOTALLY uncalled-for!  That is an Incredible relic, and quite worth of the banner.  Considering the Quality and Quantity of BONE ARTIFACTS that larson has been finding, I am Very Surprised that he has not appeared on the banner before now.

Congratulations, Larson.  This is well-deserved. 


-Buckles

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,333059.0.html

Why the --deleted-- a bunch of know-nothings have to argue when a KILLER Artifact makes the banner I will Never know.  And if they can't argue the Monetary Value or Rarity of something, they want to try and call it crude, primitive, or unskilled in its workmanship.  Those folks should try their hand at flint knapping and see how far they get.    Seriously--the rudeness is TOTALLY uncalled-for!  That is an Incredible relic, and quite worth of the banner.  Considering the Quality and Quantity of BONE ARTIFACTS that larson has been finding, I am Very Surprised that he has not appeared on the banner before now.

Congratulations, Larson.  This is well-deserved.  


-Buckles

I agree 100% even with the one word deleted by T-Net...I'm very good at Mad Libs.  This is well deserved and people should not be so I G N O R A N T.  This is directed at the people that are attacking the find and Lars not the ones just asking for more information which is quite understandable.
NJ

Super nice find Larson,,,,,........................ Congrats on a awesome piece!!!!.............................GTP

Steve, You are da Man...... Super sweet. awesome... Congrats on another well deserved banner.    John

Another great artifact recovered and congratz on making the banner!!

Yeah! Wow what a piece.

Great collection you have there, Larson -- you must be sitting on the Mandan Las Vegas.  Enjoyed reading this entire post.  Very cool artifact that I had no knowledge of.  Congrats on the find and the banner!

Why the --deleted-- a bunch of know-nothings have to argue when a KILLER Artifact makes the banner I will Never know.  And if they can't argue the Monetary Value or Rarity of something, they want to try and call it crude, primitive, or unskilled in its workmanship.  Those folks should try their hand at flint knapping and see how far they get.    Seriously--the rudeness is TOTALLY uncalled-for!  That is an Incredible relic, and quite worth of the banner.  Considering the Quality and Quantity of BONE ARTIFACTS that larson has been finding, I am Very Surprised that he has not appeared on the banner before now.

Congratulations, Larson.  This is well-deserved. 


-Buckles

I think most people admit its an amazing find and rare one at that, but this has nothing to do with the crudity of the find.  Some of the rarest finds for any era are the crude hand made items.  But lets be serious here the craftsmanship in that region and era apparently was lacking, i thought the find was more like 15,000 years old.  Its bone, not flint and my ancestors where also flint knapping 30,000 years ago just like the whole human species was at the time.  But if it makes people feel better we can pretend these finds where done by superior craftsman.  God forbid people give their true opinion on the craftsmanship of an item.  It reminds me of modern day little league teams that don't keep score so kid's don't feel offended.

Why the --deleted-- a bunch of know-nothings have to argue when a KILLER Artifact makes the banner I will Never know.  And if they can't argue the Monetary Value or Rarity of something, they want to try and call it crude, primitive, or unskilled in its workmanship.  Those folks should try their hand at flint knapping and see how far they get.    Seriously--the rudeness is TOTALLY uncalled-for!  That is an Incredible relic, and quite worth of the banner.  Considering the Quality and Quantity of BONE ARTIFACTS that larson has been finding, I am Very Surprised that he has not appeared on the banner before now.

Congratulations, Larson.  This is well-deserved.  


-Buckles

I think most people admit its an amazing find and rare one at that, but this has nothing to do with the crudity of the find.  Some of the rarest finds for any era are the crude hand made items.  But lets be serious here the craftsmanship in that region and era apparently was lacking, i thought the find was more like 15,000 years old.  Its bone, not flint and my ancestors where also flint knapping 30,000 years ago just like the whole human species was at the time.  But if it makes people feel better we can pretend these finds where done by superior craftsman.  God forbid people give their true opinion on the craftsmanship of an item.  It reminds me of modern day little league teams that don't keep score so kid's don't feel offended.

Yes, lets be honest, it is a PRIMITIVE piece made by a PRIMITIVE culture, society, whatever.  I just don't think that the craftsmanship should be in question here.  If a person made this piece to the best of their ability with the tools, materials, and knowledge that was available to them, then it should be considered well crafted!  Comparing this piece to work done by other cultures, societies just doesn't make sense to me.  If another game piece made by this culture were presented as a find and compared to this game piece then you could determine better the CRAFTSMANSHIP of one to the other.  Comparing the craftsmanship of this piece to the sculptors of ancient Greece is like comparing a stradivarius violin to an aboriginal didgeridoo, both well crafted, but one extremely more primitive, or crude, than the other.

mike

Or you could look at it this way.....They make the same coin one after another or one button after another....But just one like that one, nomatter how old it is..good luck finding another.

Why the --deleted-- a bunch of know-nothings have to argue when a KILLER Artifact makes the banner I will Never know.  And if they can't argue the Monetary Value or Rarity of something, they want to try and call it crude, primitive, or unskilled in its workmanship.  Those folks should try their hand at flint knapping and see how far they get.    Seriously--the rudeness is TOTALLY uncalled-for!  That is an Incredible relic, and quite worth of the banner.  Considering the Quality and Quantity of BONE ARTIFACTS that larson has been finding, I am Very Surprised that he has not appeared on the banner before now.

Congratulations, Larson.  This is well-deserved. 


-Buckles

I think most people admit its an amazing find and rare one at that, but this has nothing to do with the crudity of the find.  Some of the rarest finds for any era are the crude hand made items.  But lets be serious here the craftsmanship in that region and era apparently was lacking, i thought the find was more like 15,000 years old.  Its bone, not flint and my ancestors where also flint knapping 30,000 years ago just like the whole human species was at the time.  But if it makes people feel better we can pretend these finds where done by superior craftsman.  God forbid people give their true opinion on the craftsmanship of an item.  It reminds me of modern day little league teams that don't keep score so kid's don't feel offended.

So you're another one of the "panties in a bunch because a Native American Artifact made the banner" guys?  Your buddy is over in the Personal Rants section right now.  IMO, you should go have a pity party there, and keep it off the rest of the forum.


-Buck

If it's going to be displayed in the banner then I wish you would answewr this question for the rest of us metal detectorists.......

WHAT  IS  IT ??

lol  it should have come earlier but 3 posts above TnMountains explains it pretty well and also read NeoGeos links. Its a Plains Indian game piece.

Congrats to Larson.

OK got it.. I wish Larson would have put a better description in after it made banner. I know nothing about indian stuff, I thought it was a piece of scrimshaw or a whales tooth.  

He is in planting time so he may still be out on the tractor working and not seen the commotion.

 thanks TnMountains you hit the nail on the head, i was out on the tractor, but i did try to get the desription posted (but about 24 hrs late), lars

Why the --deleted-- a bunch of know-nothings have to argue when a KILLER Artifact makes the banner I will Never know.  And if they can't argue the Monetary Value or Rarity of something, they want to try and call it crude, primitive, or unskilled in its workmanship.  Those folks should try their hand at flint knapping and see how far they get.    Seriously--the rudeness is TOTALLY uncalled-for!  That is an Incredible relic, and quite worth of the banner.  Considering the Quality and Quantity of BONE ARTIFACTS that larson has been finding, I am Very Surprised that he has not appeared on the banner before now.

Congratulations, Larson.  This is well-deserved. 


-Buckles

I think most people admit its an amazing find and rare one at that, but this has nothing to do with the crudity of the find.  Some of the rarest finds for any era are the crude hand made items.  But lets be serious here the craftsmanship in that region and era apparently was lacking, i thought the find was more like 15,000 years old.  Its bone, not flint and my ancestors where also flint knapping 30,000 years ago just like the whole human species was at the time.  But if it makes people feel better we can pretend these finds where done by superior craftsman.  God forbid people give their true opinion on the craftsmanship of an item.  It reminds me of modern day little league teams that don't keep score so kid's don't feel offended.

So you're another one of the "panties in a bunch because a Native American Artifact made the banner" guys?  Your buddy is over in the Personal Rants section right now.  IMO, you should go have a pity party there, and keep it off the rest of the forum.


-Buck

Actually I said it was banner worthy and called it a rare find.  This has nothing to do with the craftsmanship of the object.  So you should move on.

                                                         

         Hands down,.. and no bones about it !!.........

Har good advice BP.....lol