Found a Very Rare Military Button! NEW INFO ADDED 11 Aug 10

I have found many Revolutionary War buttons over the years, some of which are quite rare. I never thought my rarest button find yet would be from the War of 1812, but it appears as though that's the case.

When I dug this button I had been finding nothing but bottle caps and pull tabs from people camping and fishing. The hunt was not going well at all. Then, right by a picnic table I get a nice hit but it was very shallow. I expected a modern target, but at 3 inches or so I pulled this button out. When I first found it it was CAKED with dirt and looked to have nothing on the front at all. The back of the button was quite visible however, and when I saw the gold gilt and the backmark I knew I better take a closer look at the front. Usually I wait until I get home, but I had to know what this button was. I picked off a hard piece of dirt from the front and was stunned when I saw what was on the button. Not knowing U.S. buttons very well, I was confused as to what I had. I clearly saw 'United States Artillery' on the face, and a stack of 6 cannon balls. I knew based on the button design it was quite old, but not Revolutionary War. The War of 1812 made sense as there was a lot of activity during the conflict in that area. However, I had never seen a U.S. artillery button from the War of 1812 with this design. I figured it must date slightly before or after the war as I knew the backmark was a fairly old and good one.

When I got home I looked it up in Alberts book and was pleasantly surprised to see a RV of 100, which seemed to me to be quite rare in comparison to most buttons. The book seems to suggest at the time of printing the example in the photograph was the only known example. I have scoured the internet and all of my reference books, but can't find another example anywhere. I was told the example in the book is in the Smithsonian, although I can't confirm that. There is a note in Alberts under the button which points to the 'National Button Bulletin, May 1962' for more info on the particular example in the book. I don't have it, and can't find it. Any chance one of you owns this issue?? I would love to know what it says!

I am left wondering if this button is numer 2 of 2 known. Can anyone provide any more info on the button or confirm how many are known to be out there??

What I know of the button, it is a United States Artillery, 2nd Regiment button. Made in 1808. I am also told (but again can't confirm) there were only about 300 made as Armitage made them as samples, but never received the contract.

As you can see in one of the pics, the button was still quite dirty (even after I removed some caked on dirt in the field) when I got it home. I knew there was some gilt under there and hit it with some aluminum jelly. Cleaned up quite nice. The front is nice, but the back blows me away!

That button is fantastic. Now I will have to follow this thread to see what other info comes up. Congrats.
 
JuJu

Super dig C.D. I don't have my books with me as I am in Spain. Someone will chime in and know what is what. Congrats again.

Les

Fantastic Button ! Looks like Banner Material to me
Congrats,
BB

That is one of the nicest buttons I have ever seen. I'll vote banner on this one.

Nice button for sure  not much about that one online but this might help its not the exact same button Dd60

During the 1790's many coastal towns in Great Britain formed volunteer militias to protect the motherland from attack from Napoleon's army.
This excavated coatee button (18mm) is made of brass and is a 1 piece high convex type and dates c.1790's-1815.
The device shows 3 cannonballs above three cannons inside a shield and the writing along the perimeter states: "CHATm & GILm VOLUNTEER ARTILLERY" (most likely the Chatham & Gillingham artillery).
The most informative book on the topic of English Artillery uniform buttons is "BADGES & INSIGNIA OF THE ROYAL REGIMENT OF ARTILLERY by Litchfield and he shows approx. 162 different varieties of English artillery uniform buttons throughout their existence. Just an exceptional reference guide on such, he doesn't show or list this example which is a very rare unlisted type.
Condition: this is dug with a lot of surface pourosity but most of the lettering can be read and it still retains its shank on back.
If you collect War of 1812 era military buttons or specifically English Artillery buttons, then here is a very rare button you probably won't see again soon.

Make sure you check out our other WAR OF 1812 BUTTONS in our ebay store by clicking the EAGLE ANTIQUES logo above then click the "BUTTONS: British military" or "BUTTONS: War of 1812" category on left hand side.

Nice button for sure  not much about that one online but this might help its not the exact same button Dd60

During the 1790's many coastal towns in Great Britain formed volunteer militias to protect the motherland from attack from Napoleon's army.
This excavated coatee button (18mm) is made of brass and is a 1 piece high convex type and dates c.1790's-1815.
The device shows 3 cannonballs above three cannons inside a shield and the writing along the perimeter states: "CHATm & GILm VOLUNTEER ARTILLERY" (most likely the Chatham & Gillingham artillery).

I'm lost. The button is American.

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet button Was that found in the US or north of the border? Very cool.

In great shape.

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet button Was that found in the US or north of the border? Very cool.

North of the Border 

Still trying to figure out the exact circumstances as to how it got there. I am hoping to find reference to the 2nd regiment in the area. I do know there was a company based out of Plattsburg, NY which is only about 80 kms away from where the button was found.

Nice button for sure  not much about that one online but this might help its not the exact same button Dd60

During the 1790's many coastal towns in Great Britain formed volunteer militias to protect the motherland from attack from Napoleon's army.
This excavated coatee button (18mm) is made of brass and is a 1 piece high convex type and dates c.1790's-1815.
The device shows 3 cannonballs above three cannons inside a shield and the writing along the perimeter states: "CHATm & GILm VOLUNTEER ARTILLERY" (most likely the Chatham & Gillingham artillery).

I'm lost. The button is American.

It seems to be pretty much an advertisement for his Ebay auctions... 

Great button.  I hope it is the rare one you are hoping for.  I will be watching for an update.
Dman

SWEET BUTTON!! Love the gilding left, the back is really loaded.
Good luck on the ID of the button.
It's a BANNER BUTTON!

Sweet Button 

thats a nice button here in vt. i only find tombac and dandys not much military finds

SWEET BUTTON!! Love the gilding left, the back is really loaded.
Good luck on the ID of the button.
It's a BANNER BUTTON!

Thanks. I have an ID. I know what the button is, I am just hoping to get more info. Specifically I am wondering how rare it is exactly...how many are known to be in collections. I am also wondering if the button is in fact 1 of only 300 made. I am very interested to know what the National Button Bulletin has to say about this button as well and I am hoping to get my hands on a copy, or find someone who has a copy and can provide me with the info.

Great find!  Should be on the banner.  Keep us updated with your research.

Beautiful button, you've got my banner vote!

SWEEET!!!!! Nice button!

Congrats Colonial on what may be a very rare banner find! 

Have you already contacted the National Button Society.  Maybe if you sent one of them a pic, they may do the research for you....
http://www.nationalbuttonsociety.org/2009_Officers_%26_Directors.html

Wonderful find!

Wow Love the condition of that button ColonialDude
Good luck with your research, I hope it's rare and worth thousands

Wow what a great find, and the condition is awesome. 

Need to follow this one but certainly a banner find / W&E Best I'd say if it turns out to be so rare.

Congrats

Banner Button 

Can only imagine the surprise looking this button up in Alberts and see the RV 100 

Great Find !!
              Made all those pulltabs worthwhile!!
 Banner vote!

   What !!     It seems that this button is one that doesn't turn up too often  .  I recall seeing one like yours ,  years ago in a treasure magazine .     The cleaning is superb &  I  feel your find  is extremely rare     "another vote"     Congrats Colonial dude !        CMD

Interesting button..I'll follow this thread and see what information turns up.

I hope it turns out to be a banner find.

NJ

Awesome find!! That's definitely a once-in-a-lifetime find...

:Wow! nice find,been searching online all morning for info that might help u ,,,that thing is RARE! Congrats!

Wow Alberts says RV100?? If so, without a doubt extremely rare.. Ive never seen one. banner vote

Awesome button! Great condition too! I vote banner. 

Cool button....I vote banner for sure....never seen anything like it....seen lots of buttons but not like that....good find....keep us updated on what you find out about this button please...

 

Very cool story...love the button and the patina on it is amazing...BANNER vote from me.

don't you find any junk

I noticed right under the cannons balls is the numbers 123  i dont know if anyone saw that Dd60

I don't see the numbers

don't you find any junk

haha I sure do! You guys don't want me to start posting that stuff though!

don't you find any junk

haha I sure do! You guys don't want me to start posting that stuff though!

I do all the time

Congrats Colonial on what may be a very rare banner find! 

Have you already contacted the National Button Society.  Maybe if you sent one of them a pic, they may do the research for you....
http://www.nationalbuttonsociety.org/2009_Officers_%26_Directors.html

Thanks. I did fire off an email to them this morning actually. I am sure they receive all sorts of email from people looking for information however, and although it would be nice to get a response, I am not holding my breath.

Wow what a great find, and the condition is awesome. 

Need to follow this one but certainly a banner find / W&E Best I'd say if it turns out to be so rare.

Congrats

Thanks Bob. I already made my submission in the spring though 

 What !!     It seems that this button is one that doesn't turn up too often  .  I recall seeing one like yours ,  years ago in a treasure magazine .     The cleaning is superb &  I  feel your find  is extremely rare     "another vote"     Congrats Colonial dude !        CMD

If you can recall what magazine I would love to know about it. Thanks very much!!

I noticed right under the cannons balls is the numbers 123  i dont know if anyone saw that Dd60

Nope, no numbers there

I sure hope that this turns out to be as rare as the current indicators would lead all of us to beleive.  Now matter what this is a fantastic find. I vote BANNER!!. HHHH

I can see 123 too under the cannon balls...very faint...That has to be the best looking button I have seen dug in a long time

HH,

I sure hope that this turns out to be as rare as the current indicators would lead all of us to beleive.  Now matter what this is a fantastic find. I vote BANNER!!. HHHH

I hope so too  I will be sure to keep everyone posted with any information I get. I have lots of irons in the coals, so hopefully I hear something back soon.

I suggest you contact William Leigh at civilwarbuttons.com, he should be able to give you some good insight into your button. I don't want to be a Debbie Downer but any buttons with rarity like that are likley to have been reproduced. I truly hope she is totally good, but contact an expert like William first. Bill

I suggest you contact William Leigh at civilwarbuttons.com, he should be able to give you some good insight into your button. I don't want to be a Debbie Downer but any buttons with rarity like that are likley to have been reproduced. I truly hope she is totally good, but contact an expert like William first. Bill

its real.

I suggest you contact William Leigh at civilwarbuttons.com, he should be able to give you some good insight into your button. I don't want to be a Debbie Downer but any buttons with rarity like that are likley to have been reproduced. I truly hope she is totally good, but contact an expert like William first. Bill

You may bring others following the post down, but not me. The button is real, and I am certainly not looking for anyone to give me their stamp of approval on it. I have dug enough buttons to know a real one. There is no denying there are plenty of reproduction buttons out there, but this isn't one of them.

I suggest you contact William Leigh at civilwarbuttons.com, he should be able to give you some good insight into your button. I don't want to be a Debbie Downer but any buttons with rarity like that are likley to have been reproduced. I truly hope she is totally good, but contact an expert like William first. Bill

its real.

Yep...and I'm not even an expert and I know that!

Nice find  . Once in a Lifetime button. BANNER.

 "The Second Artillery was, with the First, Third, and Fourth, organized by an Act of Congress dated March 21, 1821. Each regiment was to have one colonel, one lieutenant-colonel, one major, one supernumerary captain (for ordnance duty), one adjutant, one sergeant-major, and nine companies. Each company was to have a captain, two first lieutenants, two second lieutenants, and fifty-seven enlisted men. One company was to be designated and equipped as light artillery, but for many years it was such only in name. The list of organizations (given in

the Army Register) from which these regiments were formed is misleading, as some of the organizations mentioned had been out of existence for years. The four regiments were formed from the Corps of Artillery, the Regiment of Light Artillery, and the Ordnance, the Second being taken mainly from the Corps of Artillery. All ordnance duty was to be done by the artillery. There was a second regiment of artillery during the War of 1812, of which Winfield Scott was lieutenant-colonel and then colonel. After the war it was merged into the Corps of Artillery. The names of battles of that war are borne on the regimental colors to-day, a few of the officers of

the new Second had belonged to the old, and some of the companies may have belonged to both regiments, a fact I am unable to establish ; but as a whole the Second Artillery of 1812 was a different organization from the Second Artillery of 1821."

Not sure if you've found this but some more info.

http://www.history.army.mil/books/R&H/R&H-2Art.htm

That thing is in unbelievable condition!   

There's no doubt about it - Jeff, its time to add to the banner!              

I suggest you contact William Leigh at civilwarbuttons.com, he should be able to give you some good insight into your button. I don't want to be a Debbie Downer but any buttons with rarity like that are likley to have been reproduced. I truly hope she is totally good, but contact an expert like William first. Bill

His computer must not have loaded the pics

Not sure if you've found this but some more info.

http://www.history.army.mil/books/R&H/R&H-2Art.htm

Yes I did find that link thanks! That where I found the info on G company being based out of Plattsburg, NY. That being said I think that refers to the 2nd regiment of 1821, and not 1812. The 2nd regiment of the 1812 period would be the regiment associated with this button. \

Thanks for trying.

That is really the only reference I could find about the regiment itself. Other than some info on a hat plate identical to this style of button.

Well I sent off an email to a gentleman who is certainly in the know. I didn't quite get as many details as I had hoped, but there is some promising info here  as it seems there are not many out there after all. Here is what he had to say

" This button is extremely rare and I have seen just one other example which I sold to an individual now deceased. It is not pictured in my book since another individual was planning to publish a work on Federal / War of 1812 buttons (but never did). I would value it at about $2000.00.....(left out some personal comments not related to buttons by this gentleman)................................................. ........................Take care, and thanks for writing. Regards, Warren Tice"

Still trying to get more details on how many were made and will hopefully be able to add that info to this post soon. I find the idea that this button is 1 of 300 made by a gentleman who did not receive the contract very interesting. Again, that is merely what someone told me at this point but I hope to confirm this.

Wow Alberts says RV100?? If so, without a doubt extremely rare.. Ive never seen one. banner vote

  BANNER FOSHO!!!!

some more good news on the research front. I contact the National Button Society and received a reply from the president. She will be sending me the article on the button in the next week or so!  A very nice lady to help me out.

Hopefully this article will give me some more clues and info.

Congratulations on the rare find.  Can't wait to see the info from the NBS.  I'll be following this one.

  1 2 3     Right below the cannon balls. I see it! 

I think if there were numbers under the cannonballs Wess would be the one to see them...after all, the button is in his hands...he's not looking at it on a computer monitor...

You have my Banner vote.  That is a superb button in top notch condition.  Even without the shank, it will be a high-dollar find.  I also want to congratulate you on the cleaning methods as well.  Again--Top Notch.


Regards,


Buckleboy

Awesome Button!!

I think if there were numbers under the cannonballs Wess would be the one to see them...after all, the button is in his hands...he's not looking at it on a computer monitor...

Thanks Romeo. I would like to think so. I guess some folks want to convince themselves it's there LOL If it is, I don't see it...

You have my Banner vote.  That is a superb button in top notch condition.  Even without the shank, it will be a high-dollar find.  I also want to congratulate you on the cleaning methods as well.  Again--Top Notch.

Regards,

Buckleboy

Thanks very much. Although Mr. Tice put a value of about $2000 on the button, finding a buyer at that price would likely be a different story.

I feel very fortunate to have found a button like this, and it must frustrate the hell out of some of you guys in the U.S. I guess this is indication they are out there though, with a lot of luck and a little skill.

You have my Banner vote.  That is a superb button in top notch condition.  Even without the shank, it will be a high-dollar find.  I also want to congratulate you on the cleaning methods as well.  Again--Top Notch.

Regards,

Buckleboy

Thanks very much. Although Mr. Tice put a value of about $2000 on the button, finding a buyer at that price would likely be a different story.

I feel very fortunate to have found a button like this, and it must frustrate the hell out of some of you guys in the U.S. I guess this is indication they are out there though, with a lot of luck and a little skill.

It doesn't frustrate me.  Actually, it's great to know that they're out there waiting to be dug.   

You got my vote for banner.  A button this rare has got to be up on top.  Congrats to you.   

Wess, I'm guessing the price is nice to know, but has less of a relevance to the history/details

The closest I came to a cracking button (& you know I have many), & one of my favourite survivors was this one  Hope you don't mind me showing you on your post but I thought you would appreciate it.

In all the excitement, I forgot to vote, I will now

Wess, I'm guessing the price is nice to know, but has less of a relevance to the history/details

The closest I came to a cracking button (& you know I have many), & one of my favourite survivors was this one  Hope you don't mind me showing you on your post but I thought you would appreciate it.

In all the excitement, I forgot to vote, I will now

Wow! Beautiful button my friend! I would take that 43rd any day of the week!  You do find some great buttons for sure.

The Arzila coin is interesting. I am assuming it does not refer to the ship (as that would mean the coin is post 1870 which it is certainly not) but instead to the fortified town on the coast of Morocco. Very cool! Thanks for sharing.

Wess, I'm guessing the price is nice to know, but has less of a relevance to the history/details

The closest I came to a cracking button (& you know I have many), & one of my favourite survivors was this one  Hope you don't mind me showing you on your post but I thought you would appreciate it.

In all the excitement, I forgot to vote, I will now

Wow! Beautiful button my friend! I would take that 43rd any day of the week!  You do find some great buttons for sure.

The Arzila coin is interesting. I am assuming it does not refer to the ship (as that would mean the coin is post 1870 which it is certainly not) but instead to the fortified town on the coast of Morocco. Very cool! Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for the comments, I didn't want to come across as stealing your thunder (not that its even in the same league) but I thought you missed it & would like to see, its thought to be one of the best known examples.
Yes it is the Ship, the reverse is a British Halfpenny dated 1910, see my post for that day (Dad found it).  Cool piece of social history, if only we knew why it was done, I'm assuming a crew member or Captain...
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,317728.0.html


I got one of my most iconic pictures from this field (Henry VIII):
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,320451.0.html


KEEP DOING WHAT YOU DO BEST!!!

Thanks for the comments, I didn't want to come across as stealing your thunder (not that its even in the same league) but I thought you missed it & would like to see, its thought to be one of the best known examples.
Yes it is the Ship, the reverse is a British Halfpenny dated 1910, see my post for that day (Dad found it).  Cool piece of social history, if only we knew why it was done, I'm assuming a crew member or Captain...
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,317728.0.html

KEEP DOING WHAT YOU DO BEST!!!

Wow, that was a productive day!  Both were by the looks of it. I have to admit, the coin had me fooled. The patina made it appear much older, as did the hand which did the carving. Very cool.

Wow! Outstanding button!!! Just... outstanding!!

MB

Will all the updated information I just read I placed my banner vote...congratulations on the rare button. 

(Annie is a very nice lady...see NJ is not so bad.)

NJ

Banner Bump 

AWESOME FIND!!!...

Outstanding find.  I wish it were going into my display case !!

Thank you very much for your comments and votes for the banner, but it looks like this one is not going to make it.

I am not sure how people normally update posts, or what the preferred method is by members here, but I was thinking about my updates today and wondering if I should simply be adding new info to my original post as I get it, or with a post like this on the bottom?

Do a new post,your getting harder to find , but i keep rechecking

 

Congratulations on your fantastic find I'm sorry I don't know more about the button but from what the outhers have said, it's a dream find ....Oh yea BANNERRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

SS

just got off vacation and seen this post...congrats on the rare find!!! Banner in my book ....
you had quite the last few years..keep it up...

Oh that's lovely!


Great save and cleaning!

Poof!

Congratulations on the Banner   
It's where it belongs.

 Tice is no lightweight regarding military buttons.  After all , he did write a great reference book. However , his expertise seems to mainly center on Civil War buttons (I own his book), and is disappointingly lacking on earlier material, it seems.  However, make no mistake about it, this is NOT a commonly found button.  Other than the one in Alberts book, I have personally seen only 3 in 30 years.  1 from FL,  1 from GA,  and 1 from NJ ; none have I been able to trade for as yet.  It is indeed a SCREAMER of a find !  One alleged authority told the owner of one that there are approx. 20+ known examples.  I have heard mixed reviews on this major dealers integrity, and do not know him personally, so take this info as you like.  At any rate, $2000 seems a bit much, but all that gilt sure does'nt hurt !  Regardless, it won't sell cheap ! Hope this added experience helps.   Congratulations -  fieldslayer         P.S. - Those who think this is a reproduction , need to stick to hunting schoolyards !   

Poof!

Congratulations on the Banner   
It's where it belongs.

Thank you, and thanks to those who voted to put this button on the banner. Much appreciated!

Tice is no lightweight regarding military buttons.  After all , he did write a great reference book. However , his expertise seems to mainly center on Civil War buttons (I own his book), and is disappointingly lacking on earlier material, it seems.  However, make no mistake about it, this is NOT a commonly found button.  Other than the one in Alberts book, I have personally seen only 3 in 30 years.  1 from FL,  1 from GA,  and 1 from NJ ; none have I been able to trade for as yet.  It is indeed a SCREAMER of a find !  One alleged authority told the owner of one that there are approx. 20+ known examples.  I have heard mixed reviews on this major dealers integrity, and do not know him personally, so take this info as you like.  At any rate, $2000 seems a bit much, but all that gilt sure does'nt hurt !  Regardless, it won't sell cheap ! Hope this added experience helps.   Congratulations -  fieldslayer    

Thanks for your reply and info. I personally do not know Mr. Tice, and don't own his book for that matter. I thought his estimate on the value of the button was a little high, but wasn't going to argue. I have had several folks contact me with offers for this button. None quite as high as $2000, but some very decent offers.

I guess determining how many are known in collections is a difficult task, as we never know what people have hoarded away or in small unknown collections. I am most interested in knowing how many were made. I only know at this point that with the exception of mine there currently are no images or examples of this button to be found anywhere on the internet.

Does your collection or experience focus on War of 1812 buttons? (probably rev as well based on your avatar)

Thanks again for giving your opinion.

Beautiful and Rare button!  I'm very much into American Military buttons and I can say i've never seen this one until now.  Congrats on the well deserved Banner

Beautiful and Rare button!  I'm very much into American Military buttons and I can say i've never seen this one until now.  Congrats on the well deserved Banner

  its where it belongs

I see "123" under the cannonballs too.  "2" is most visible.  I know nothing about buttons but is this a bad indicator?

I see "123" under the cannonballs too.  "2" is most visible.  I know nothing about buttons but is this a bad indicator?

the only bad indicator is that you people are seeing 123 and insisting it's there 

I will say this again...THERE IS NO 123 ON THIS BUTTON!!!

What a killer find and in that great of shape, just awesome.

"Very Rare" seems like an understatement.

Congrats on the find and much deserved Banner...

Brian in MA

I see "123" under the cannonballs too.  "2" is most visible.  I know nothing about buttons but is this a bad indicator?

the only bad indicator is that you people are seeing 123 and insisting it's there 

I will say this again...THERE IS NO 123 ON THIS BUTTON!!!

Is it 321 instead

I see "123" under the cannonballs too.  "2" is most visible.  I know nothing about buttons but is this a bad indicator?

the only bad indicator is that you people are seeing 123 and insisting it's there 

I will say this again...THERE IS NO 123 ON THIS BUTTON!!!

It's like a stain on a tree that someone thinks looks like the virgin mary - once it's mentioned people go looking for it!

I can only dream about finding a button like that!

Congrats on the sweeeeeeeet button, and a well deserved banner find!  Breezie

Congratulations to you sir on a most excellant find. Looks very nice on top. Nice the way she cleaned up.
HH
TnMtns

So sorry, but I'm with the 123 loons...

congrats on finding that absolute gorgeous button
and congrats on making the banner

Congrats on a well deserved banner!  I hate to admit it, but I do see 123 on the second picture in the first post.

So sorry, but I'm with the 123 loons...

Well I guess you have reached the 5th and final stange...acceptance.

It's one thing for some of you to THINK you are seeing something on the button, but quite another for those who are trying to convince everyone else it's there, including the guy who found the thing and can actually hold it in his hand!!! THERE IS NO 123!!!!

I have to admit, this 123 thing is getting annoying enough, and off topic enough that I am ready to just pull the pictures or post. 

I just saved the pic to my computer, and enlarged it,adjusted it and fine tuned it,,,123

sure thing bud