Gold Washington Dollar cache: clue inquiry

In 1799, a 2 million dollar horde of Gold dollars was stolen from revolutionary war troops in East Granby CT, by a group of Torie sympathizers and hidden within a mile or two of the Inn where it was stolen.  Reports say it was never found although over the past forty years several dollars have been found near streams known as the Salmon Brook. I have done quite a bit of research here and am confident that the story is real and the horde still exists unfound. Looking at old maps I have narrowed the search to a few areas. For all the experts out there, I would like your opinion on the following:

If the horde was in wooden boxes or casks and was transported by wagon in a hurry, and if you knew there would be a wide search, what likely spots would you hide it?

Note: the wagon was found approx. a half mile away from the Inn in a field the next morning. The community had dirt roads north and south main streets (level), east and west roads (hilly) basically. Several river branches abound, a few ponds, several farms. An old prison still exists 1 mile away from that time period and lots of wooded areas.

I would love to hear your opinions and thoughts and see how everyone's mind works creatively. Thanks tom

...a few ponds...

There's a clue.

[I'm NOT Trying to Discourage you, I'm Just Confused.]

SORRY ;

First off "GOLD" Dollars ?
from what Country ?

   1n 1799.

I do not believe any Gold Dollars Existed.

there were $2.50's But by 1799 There were only a  Few Thousand in Existance.

there were $5.00 Gold Coins but again No where near a Million by 1799

there were maby a Million $10.00 Pieces by 1799

I am going by a Quick Scan of the Red Book.

Could they Mean $2,000,000.00 value today in Gold Coins ?


I'm NOT Trying to Discourage you, I'm Just Confused.

I'v got $2,500,000.00 in Gold coins.

"Bates Tavern" Treasure. But no Details

http://www.losttreasure.com/statetales/taleCT.cfm

1799 2mil in gold. Don't think so. You could buy Alaska with  the NW territories thrown in for that much.

[Gold Coins Borrowed from France]

1799 2mil in gold. Don't think so. You could buy Alaska with  the NW territories thrown in for that much.

Gold Coins Borrowed from France

Not U.S. this was the Difference.

Still The Value need more Research.

Great comments thus far. According to an article rom Lost treasure, Gen George Washington stated that the lost Gold coins were French and were borrowed to support the plight of the colonials and GW. The war officially ended in 1781 but was offically over in 1783.

Not much fighting in CT, but the gold was being transported thru CT., probably from Boston area south to Valley Forge or Philadelphia.

Questions and comments actually stimulate more research  which provide additional leads. This is great stuff. When I was a kid I remember going to a museum in east Granby CT and I saw a hand written letter from a rev. war soldier that mentioned something to the effect that he didn't get paid as the payroll was stolen. A fierce battle ensued, many were killed or wounded and he was upset. Not sure if it was related but quite a coincidence.

Also, the French were very supportive of the colonists and were against the British. Don't know what a French gold coin would look like from back then. Tom

The things you read in Lost Treasure nice to read but very little truth. I have spent a lot of time in Historical records out here in the west on some of their stories. All so far have proved to be junk journalism. It's a laugh to see how such stories get printed. I guess for a buck you can write and get anything printed.

[Not buy]

The things you read in Lost Treasure nice to read but very little truth. I have spent a lot of time in Historical records out here in the west on some of their stories. All so far have proved to be junk journalism. It's a laugh to see how such stories get printed. I guess for a buck you can write and get anything printed.

  Although I wouldn't Sell the Kids, to Fund a search on a story.
   I would Trade them in on a truck to Haul the Treasure
  if I found it.

   I do Believe Most of the stories you read in there, can be Cross
Referenced to a story handed down. and Most of them have some
truth they are based from.

   If you Don't at least Research them.

you may as well Not buy a Lottery Ticket &
still sit back and wait to win it.

Hi,

If geologic quads for that area exist, check them out for fault cracks/crevices or limestone pits/caves/quarries. It's a whole lot easier to drop something heavy and recover it later, than to take the time to bury it! So what if you lose a few coins? You have 2 million dollars worth just lying around! Also, I would check to see how many wells existed in the area. It's easy to cover one over!

Cavers5

There's good evidence that this robbery took place. However what I find strange is that an investigation wasn't put to paper someplace? And statements of the guards taken. What did the guards do ? Just walk away? This must have been the talk of the town! If so don't you think there would be a report in all the newspapers of the time? I think you should look for one. With this much money involved there'd almost have to be. Plus on the surface it looks to be an inside job? All planned in advance? Everything went to smooth. Likely the coin was placed down Mr. Bates well and the wagons taken a short distance away. Check out Bates as to what happened with him after the war? If he died soon after the war, he may have not told his family and the loot may still be in the well? I think if it was me looking I'd have to do some solid research before I ever took to the field. ---- Keep us posted, O.K.

i don't follow many but this one i do. what's my share for these hints? not greedy or anything,but they're close to the surface. would like to take a trip up there and help hunt.

True or not, very interesting to read what thoughts everyone has on the story.

Excuuuuse me, but I take umbrage with those who stated that 100% of the stories in Lost Treasure (and other magazines in that genre) are lies.  I have written several articles for LT and W&E Treasures, and not one of them was a lie.  In fact, for LT, you must list your reference material.  Every article I wrote for that magazine had references, plus they were based on my own personal research in the field.  Please do not lump everyone together and consider all such stories LIES, they are NOT.   

As for this legend, I think there is some truth to it, but like everything else that is passed down through the decades (or even yesterday's news for that matter) it gets changed and convoluted.  I'd try to determine which streams run through the area and compare today's maps with maps of the period to see how much the stream beds have changed.  I'd also try using something like GoogleEarth to look for streambeds that are dried up.  Then I'd check those old stream beds for depressions or some other weird anomaly.  Hiding all those gold coins would have been hard, heavy work.  If they were in a hurry (and who wouldn't be when stealing that much gold), they would have done what was easiest yet would still render the boxes "invisible."  Throwing them into the deepest hole on the creek seems logical, and could account for them washing out centuries later.  Good luck with the pursuit for more info on this cache.  I hope you'll keep us informed on your progress.
                                                                                    ---------------------------
Very quickly I did an internet search for East Granby Historical Society and got a result.  Have you contacted them?  The FIRST place to start with any serious investigation is to do the RESEARCH.  And usually the first place to do research is at an historical society.  So, please, do the research yourself FIRST before you ask others to help you with something.  After you've got as much info gathered as possible, then it makes sense to ask for additional ideas or "clues."  Research is seldom the big pain most people expect.  Most of the research has already been done on events, places, people, and things.  Which means it is relatively simple to contact an historical society, museum, library, or county courthouse and ask some questions.  The internet makes doing research so easy.  A computer is the best research tool available.  And we ALL have one, or access to one.   

Yes I know. The references are usually from some other magazine that was published years earlier. Junk journalism begets junk journalism.  I have a bridge out back I would like to sell you.  It’s worth millions of dollars.   You and I have just read  it’s worth a lot of money so it must be true...   

notice how virtually noone actually answered his question.

i know how about answering his question instead of poking holes in his treasure tale.

and as im not very expierenced i would say what if they pre dug the hole prior to the robbery and then is wouldnt take very long to fill it in.

Whether true or not, one BIG thing stands out in my mind:

Since none of the robbers were caught, why do you think there is a chance in hades that anything is still hidden? If the story went like most stolen loot stories, where the bad guys steal the gold, then flee. Then a group is formed, and gives chase. They track them down 10 miles away, and a big gunfight ensues.. At the end, all the bad guys are dead, and there is no treasure to be found.

Without an ending like that, you HAVE to assume that some of the robbers, or some of their relatives dug up the coins at some later date. I doubt there's anything left. Maybe some caskets were broken, and loose coins fell out, and may still be there, but I would do some more research to see if any families became wealthy after the war in that area.

There is ONE plausible explanation though, after the Revolution, those that sided with the British were sent away with the British. They might not have had the chance to take something like that with them. Who knows.

best,

Mike

Lots of great comments and some skepticism which is always the case and needs to be. but thank you all anyway. Additional research i have recently done includes finding the actual property where the heist was supposed to take place. It was easy to find. I have lots more to do however, in terms of the research. Then pick four or five sites check them out visually, detect a little, continue to research.

Lots of times the answer is common sense. Little things that we miss. For instance, in this case the thieves had to be locals. Either inside job or those that frequented the Inn owned by Capt Lemuel Bates. The population was probably not that high in 1779. Another common sense thing is that people didn't and don't just go into the woods unless they were hunting, out walking or basically knew a place that they just like to be, especially in those days. So where did they go? Areas near ponds and streams...areas where they could get a wagon thru, areas where they felt chests could be hidden without common sight. As is always the case, was someone alive to go back to get it? Lots of fear to go back soon...families?? all possibilities.. I personnally feel at this point there is a strong case that this did occur and the booty is buried and someday will be found. Hopefully, someday soon I will find an actual historical document to the affect that this story is real.

Can the "dollars" Supposedly Found over the years be Traced
to France ?

IF yes. odds are they were hidden up stream & floods over the last 200 years have Dislodged some.

I'd start at the Very top, and follow the stream downhill.

ok severial questions:

1. the wagon was found approx. a half mile away from the Inn in a field the next morning
2. Reports say it was never found although over the past forty years several dollars have been found near streams known as the Salmon Brook


Was the location the wagon was found before or after the streams?

If after the streams then possibly the wagon was racing though the streams in there attempted getaway and due to roughness some were jostled out into the stream.

If before the stream, possibly the stream holds the key, depending on how many and how close together the ones found were in relationship to each other.Wagon goes to area near stream items buried wagon returns to area away from cache site.

3. wagons were slow esp carring wooded boxes or casks of gold, a time frame if u could find one would help between when holdup was and wagon was found
4. wagon was found 1/2 mile from Inn, how far is the stream from that location

If the stream is futher from the inn then the location the wagon was found, possibly cache was hidden wagon was returned to location to throw off finding.

Alot of varibles here, take one varation plot it out research it if it fails plot out another reasearch so on and so on wash rinse repeat.

Without knowing the lay of the land or any other research:
1.gold is stolen, wagon and team head out fast pace, due to speed in getaway bouncing on road etc, possibly one cask, box either rattles open or is broke, crossing stream at speed some is dumped into stream.
2.gold is stolen, wagon and team head to stream bank cache is bured nearby team is driven back to location and left away from drop site.

Other varibles:
1. Was the wagon and team the orginal team used to haul the gold, if it was they would be tired and not able to run along distance.
2. Were they persued, hard to believe a gold shipment could be taken and not persued.
3. Wagons with gold loaded were heavy, they leave tracks.
4. The area the wagon was found were there additional tracks found: meaning cache split up onto severial different mounts or another wagon waiting.

Alot of different varibles alot of researching, have fun and good luck.

[The stream was both a problem and the solution for the robbers]

Surely something this daring and audacious would have been reported in a newspaper.  You have 3 possibilities, as I see it.  You could get lucky and find a newspaper from the area that mentions the robbery.  You could find a British newspaper that relates the story.  Or you could find a French newspaper that discussed the event.  This would be an international news story since it was during the Revolutionary War and since it involved French coins.  I suspect a British archives would be able to assist you via email.

Diaries from the locals might mention something about it since it must have been a topic of gossip and people must have speculated who would/could have done it.

I wonder if there were any French coins showing up in Canada shortly after the robbery.  Has anybody on this forum ever found, or does anyone know of, any gold French coins minted in 1779 or earlier being found in Canada?  The loyalists to the British crown fled to Canada after the war ended.  Some of them may have taken the booty with them.  If an inordinate number of French gold coins suddenly appeared in Canada, that would have been big news, too.  Another possibility for a newspaper story and therefore another step forward in authenticating the story.

The stream is the key.  It either impeded the wagon's progress.  Or it was the cache site.  Or it was both.  Some of the coins were found in the stream throughout the years.  The stream was both a problem and the solution for the robbers.  That's my intuitive guess!!!   LOL  Geez, I could almost believe me.

Good Luck, and please continue to keep us updated.

That much Gold would leave some deep wagon tracks. It would be like throwing 3 or 4 engine blocks in the back of the wagon. Folks in those days were expert trackers; as it was a commonly used skill and known by all. Just a riderless horse is distinguishable from a riden animal . The original investigators/pursuers would have instantly picked up on the wagons tracks being no longer burdened by the Gold, and hence been able to determine where it was unloaded.  This leaves us with 1) innaccurate details of account, 2)The pursuers and investigators were accomplists, part, 3) The amount of Gold in the original story has been greatly exagerated with every telling of the story.  If the gold was dumped in the creek as the thieves crossed it, the tracks would have been blatantly obvious where they left the creek.  It might be likely that the original size of the booty was under 100 pounds, which a man could express away on horse back.  The tracks are the key!

Well...the only way to find out is to get the detectors to the ground.  Get your humps out there in the spring.  Need any help...I am not too far away from CT.  I'll bring the beer.

I'm with skrimpy hit it hard in the spring. he got the beer i got the food I'm too not to far away from ct I'm in Ma          what you need is a ultrasound earth imager 

If it were me back then I'd of had another wagon, two or three waiting. Split the load up and ditch the Original wagon...

First thoughts.
 They drove the wagon to the stream and unloded it there to horses.
 The stream would cover the tracks of the horses fairly quickly.
 The wagon is then driven on for a ways and abandoned.
 The horses either went up stream or down stream with the gold.

  So where did the coins show up in relation to the inn and the wagon being parked?
 Up stream or down stream?

 Who lived up stream of that area and who lived down stream.  Were any of them British supporters?
   
  Just ideas for starting your research.

I may be new to this but I have been researching this also. The coins were minted in England and were being transported from Boston the Philly. Outside of bates tavern the guards were killed by having their throats slit. There were only 4 of them the horses were hooked dup to the wagons and drove out of town slowly to no create any noise after that the treasure was buried next to a stream and the horses and buggies were found the next morning in a farmer’s field. The group who stole the money agreed to meet sometime later to get the gold out of the ground well after 2 weeks of searching by the army they gave up and returned to Boston, a month later the group decided to meet in a field one night when they did they were all killed by Indians but one who escaped by crawling out of the field. After a month he was going to go get some of the gold but got caught stealing a cow from a neighbor after 6 months in jail he escaped going o England through Boston after he got there he sent a letter to his mother telling of the whole story but was very veg on where the treasure was buried. Since then 5 coins have been found outside of Granby area. I do believe this story is true and will be looking for it this spring.   Sorry for bad spelling I am at work.

I think the number of coins must be off if 2,000,000 coins even at small sizes (current nickel) it would take about 6 coins for an oz or about 70 for a pound or around 28,600 lbs for 2 million coins

wagons could take a load of about half a ton.  or 28-29 wagons would be needed just to move it.

The amount of gold carried by the 14 wagons is 11 to 13 chests that is what i have been able to find out from several sources

first find out the spot where the coins were found .then look up stream for any sings of where the river bank might have gave way because of heavy rain,fast moving water due to rain and check areas like that it might have been buried there because the soil might have been easier to dig in .maybe by a tree close to the river (they could of used a tree as a marker) good luck

Hey all, found this thread and since I'm from CT it peaked my interest Did a little searching and found a few things. I'm not on either side of the fence here, just posting some info I found.
1. This I copy and pasted from some other thread :

REGARDING THE EAST GRANBY TREASURE
 
The article GOLD CACHE is wrong.   FLOYD:  "I hope you print my story, because many of your readers made comments and are wasting their time and money looking for it."
 
Here we go again.  I am 64 years old and have lived in Connecticut for most of my life.  I became a coin collector in 1964.  After seeing many ads for metal detectors in COIN WORLD, I bought a Whites detector and that got it all started.  Since that time, including the latest LOST TREASURE magazine, I had read the story of 13 wagon loads of gold coin loaned from France that got robbed at Bates Tavern.  Unlike many authors, I did a lot of research, including interviewing William Bates, who was an old man.  He, like many people, is a story teller.  He told me the story was true and that the boxes were buried near a stream, because the digging was easy.
Years later I spoke to his son-in-law who lives in the tavern, with his wife.  He had to be in his sixties.  I asked him if William really believed the story.  He told me that the Bates had never heard of the story until they read the letters from a woman to the Hartford Cournat newspaper in 1951.
Remember:  Captain Lemuel Bates died at 91 years of age.  I hope to live that long.  He lived in the tavern until he died.  That means he would tell his children, who would tell their children the story.  Most people believe that stories in treasure magazines are false.  The coins were never found, and never will be, because the story is false.  The treasure story writer for LOST TREASURE magazine states that Richard H. Phelps wrote a book claiming that Henry Wooster, a Tori, was involved and wrote a letter to his mother stating that he had helped rob the wagons with the coins.  Wrong !  Phelps, who lived in East Granby, never mentioned that story.  He wrote that Henry had robbed a house, with his friends, and went to England and came back after the war.  The article in the magazine also states " in 1951 a Hartford woman wrote a series of articles about the heist."  If the story was true,then it would have been in the local papers at the time.  I also asked a woman who lived in East Granby all of her life, why she didn't write about the treasure in her East Granby history book.  She said the story was false.  If you find the coins, just send me a picture.  Every time the story is printed, many new people show up at Bates Tavern looking for the treasure.  You would think that someone would have found the coins since 1951---if the story was true.  I'd be grateful if anyone has any true stories of treasure in Connecticut.  Best of luck to you all.

2. This is a link to an article I found mentioning the above Henry Wooster. Interesting reading whether you believe the story of the treasure or not.
 
http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/ah/1967/2/1967_2_40.shtml

Good luck.

Good research, Dino.  That's what treasure hunting - especially cache hunting - is all about.  The primary sources for information are usually the most accurate.  Since the local papers (the primary sources) at the time didn't mention this supposed gold coin heist, then we can all pretty much put this story to rest.  No gold coins to be found.  End of story.

I don't see anything stated that absolutely ensures the gold coins do not exist and that this story is hogwash. lots of good reasons why the story is not visible in 1779, 1780, or beyond.

Did you ever think that Bates was in on it and because there were soldiers killed he couldn't tell family for fear of being frowned upon?

I don't care if it is $2MM or $200k, I believe something happened and something is yet to be found.

Why:
1. If people already found a coin or two then Bingo...one great fact.
2. East Granby did not exist in 1779. Simsbury did which covered that area, so research needs to change paths a bit
3. Why would a story not be front page? Embarrassment, or at the very least it could have been a highly secret shipment that very few knew about.
4. People in high places (or that were in on it) kept it quiet.
5. France did financially support George in the revolution at that time. I have documentation of this.
6. Henry Wooster means nothing. He is a name picked that probably existed but I believe meaningless to this search.
7. The key to me is what and who existed in 1779 in that area and the search expands from there.
Have Fun and Thanks
Tom

Hey tom, It is an interesting story. Can you give anymore info about the coins that were found. How long ago?, I could not find anything but would be interested in reading about the finds. If you can't say, I understand. Thanks.

From what i have read, in 1944 a hiker found one in a stream. Called it  a Washington dollar. In 1958 three more were supposedly found near a brook and they were supposedly identified as Washington dollars. In 1987 one more was found by a woman and it was identified as a Washington dollar. it also was near a branch of a stream.

These accounts were all found in a book written by WC Jameson. Unfortunately, many of his reference materials came from Lost Treasure magazine. Some were from other treasure lore books, written as far back as 1951.

I read somewhere, that richard Phelps oldest book had inclusions of the story and Henry Wooster in there. The book was written in the 1800'S and supposedly a copy is in the Enfield CT library which I plan on viewing soon.

A good area of research I believe is following up on articles etc on the found coins.
Tom

I am enjoying this strand. It is intriguing. Whatever roads you explore, focus on primary sources. All this treasure story to treasure story stuff is a waste of time (in my humble opinion). I think that when a writer is telling a story, he is telling a story. The facts can be rationalized, and if my research is any indication... they usually are.

 :)Ok. Great story and very exciting especially living less than 20 miles from the site. One question: has anyone ever seen a picture of these coins. Can't find them anywhere.Also, just getting permission to hunt some fields around the stream would be great. Who knows there might even be a Higley Copper out there. or some of those coins might have been dropped in the hurry.Iv'e fished the stream as a teenager many times. some of th banks are high. The must have been old bridges that crossed it at one time. Also the stream i'm sure has changed directions since then.

Hey relicman, I'm sure some are not happy seeing new posts with no new info, but what can I say, it's snowing and I got the day off.  I'm still searching for more info on the coins found, but so far nothing.  If the story is that one was found as recently as 1987, there's got to be some info out there. The only recent? trail to followup on is from the thread I posted before about  Bates and some letters he supposedly read in the Hartford Courant from 1951.  They have an archive search available(for a fee) via email.  Not going that route unless I'm in the area to search in person. I'm hoping for Tom to post some new info on his research.  Good Luck. 

for a very long time, I could not response to this web site about the Rev. War  13 wagon loads of gold dollars.  Now, look out.  You may want to read my story in this web site newsletter of Feb. 15.  The story is false.  There was no mention in the Hartford Courant newspaper back then, or any local history books, written by local people.  Captain Bates lives to be 91 years old.   His family still live there in the sixes.  The Bates family never heard of the story until they read the lady letters in the Hartford Courant in 1951.  I been a coin collector and a treasure hunter since 1964.  These coins were never minted, and that is why I am willing pay for pictures of the front and the back of the coins for $100.00.  I don't have any takers.   People out west save money to go treasure hunting in the East.  People in the East save money to go treasure hunting in the west.  There are treasure hunters in every states. Don't state that that there are coins, that you never saw.

goldenrule farm,

Ok, I'm ready to let this go too...but since you seem to have more info of this then what I have read here, can you clear up a few things?

What were, who wrote, these letters in the Hartford Courant in 1951?

Did anyone actually find (within the last 50 years) any gold coins in this area?

If so, do you know what kind they were?

If not, thank you..this story will no longer occupy any space in my limited mind.   

What is in a name:   I had live at a home for boys, 1956 - 1961, name
Golden Rule Farm, in Northfield, New Hampshire, where we had cows.  I live in Connecticut since around 1964 when I got interested in coin collecting and treasure hunting.  You may want to find out if France minted the coins in 1799.  The story started in 1951, when a women wrote letters to the hartford Courant, was printed newspapers back then during the Rev. War.,
and still printing newspapers.  As stated before, the authors did not mention this story because they know the story is false.  There is no one more them me who wish the story was true.  I am looking for true stories about
Connecticut.   I live in Bridgeport and looking for buddies, and happy to advice people.  I am 64 years old.  Sent pictures for payment.

To Goldenrulefarm and other skeptics:

Wow! What negativity and skepticism. Where is your sense of intrigue and determination? I know the world is flat. It must be, right? I can't guarantee you that the Washington Gold dollar story is real or not at this point. I can't show you a coin. I can't speak with Lemuel Bates either. I live in CT and am intrigued by this story. I also love the story of the Pirate gold hidden in East Granby in the same vicinity. Ever heard of that one? Probably not and it may not be true. But maybe it is. I just know this....there is always some truth to legends, be it turned around 180 degrees or so, but something  did happen there. Probably a lot of things. The family of Bates would be the last people to find out believe me. As someone said, maybe we find a box of Higby coppers in our travels. Think they are worth anything Mr coin collector?

Look, research is hard work. People spend years looking and maybe find one clue. Then another. Maybe they don't search at all because it's not put right in their lap. I don't care because I know a couple of other things. East Granby is old...1700's That means lots of stuff to be found. Also, for all you folks there are at least 10 articles that have been in the
Hartford Courant newspaper on this topic over the past 60 years. Maybe more beyond. Can't rely on their archive system. Also, try the Enfield library near Granby. You may find some info there, because there is. By the wayFannie Warfield Hayes who wrotew the 1951 article, must be very old now or maybe dead. But I have a feeling her passion over this for a very hidden reason, is what drove her. Oh yes, truth be it, I was 12 years old when i read a letter in East Granby, handwritten and old, from a soldier at Newgate prison, right there in east granby and it said something about a revolutionary payroll, stolen. Men overcome and killed, several wounded and the money never found. It also said he wasn't getting paif for awhile. I remembered this all these years and I am 58 years old.

One more thing. During my research on this topic, I have uncovered at least three other leads on other things that are pretty exciting to me IN THIS SAME GENERAL AREA!

So before you rain on someone else's parade, please think about the big picture.
Tom L.

Hey Tom, Thanks for the info about the letters and the good points about researching. I wish I were closer to the area and had more time to take advantage of the local sources.  It's frustrating being so close yet so far. Anyway, don't listen to what anyone has to say, me included.  I'm sure from your point of view the picture looks different.  Like I said in my previous post, it's occupying space in my mind and maybe I'm just looking reasons not to let it.  Regardless, good luck and keep us updated. For now, I'll return to my previous position when I first read about this...on the fence.

Greetings:

TommyL, I can see your point - the allure legendary treasure stories and such. However, never take secondary information as gospel, or anything approaching fact. As for newspaper accounts: I recently did quite a bit of research on Braddock's Gold - the bulk of it from primary resources. Turns out that the "legend" was born out of a newspaperman's fascination and was 90% yarn. A yarn that was respun with each subsequent retelling. Guess a treasure story is always a good fall back on a poor news day.

Starsplitter 

Tom  L.

For all people who believe the 13 wagons loads of gold coins rob at Bates Tavern, during the Rev. war . I highly recommend that you read The Hartford Courant newspaper, the years of 1799 - 1800 for info.  So far, I have not received pictures of the coins, which I am paying $100.00 for.  My biggest concern now is what metal detector to buy and looking for people in and around Bridgeport for coin shooting.  I am older then Tom L.

Golden Rule Farm

dclovejoycook@aol.com

[stay]

Personally, I don't want to rain on your parade.  I'll add a little sunshine to it, if you don't mind.  Here is what Thomas P. Terry wrote about the gold coins in his treasure leads collection - United States Treasure Atlas, Volume 3 (page 223).


    "48A.  During the Revolutionary War, $2 1/2 million in gold coins was on loan from France to the
     colonies to support the cause against the British.  After arriving at Boston, the treasure was loaded
     on wagons for the trip to Philadelphia.

     The party stopped overnight at the tavern of Captain Lemuel Bates in East Granby Center.  During
     the night, a band of Tory renegades overpowered the guards and drove the wagons into the wooded
     hills about 1 mile from the tavern where the hoard was buried.  In their effort to escape the scene,
     all were killed with the exception of one man, Henry Wooster, but he refused to tell where the gold
     treasure was hidden.  Wooster was jailed, but escaped and fled to England.
     
     Searchers found the wagons and horses in the woods, but the plank boxes containing the gold coins
     were never found."

     
     "48B.  After the War, Henry Wooster wrote his mother and included maps to the gold cache.  She
      secretly sent 5 or 6 men to recover the hoard, but all were killed by Indians."

 
     "48C.  In the 18th century, Newgate Prison was built over an abandoned copper mine that had a
      honeycomb of caverns extending in all dirctions.  It has been suggested that the gold treasure was
      hidden in the abandoned mine tunnels."


     "48D.  In 1951, a researcher claimed that the hoard of gold was buried in a bright and babbling
      brook.  If this is the case, it is surmised that the bank has fallen in since the early days and
      covered the site."


As I stated from the beginning, if any coins have been found in the stream, that is the place to start the search.  And remember that creeks change their channels frequently.  Get an old map and go from there.  Also remember that E. Granby was once part of another city and county. 

Some things to ponder:  How did Mrs. Wooster know the men she sent to recover the gold had been killed by Indians?  Did her son really return to England, and stay there? 

I am happy that you don't want to rain on my parade.  In the sixty, I interview Willaim Bates who since Lemuel Bates live the tavern.  He told me that the treasure was bury near a brook, since it was easy digging.  William is a story teller.  Years later, I had interview his son in law, who was living in the tavern.  He told me that William really didn't believe the story and that the family didn't hear about the story until they read the letters that a lady sent to The Hartford Courant in 1951.  During the Rev. war, The Hartford Courant never wrote about this story, and Hartford is close to East Granby.  Henry Wooster had rob a house with his friends, he went to England and came back to visit his mother.  I am sure that many treasure hunters had search for the coins.  There are many stories about Captain Kidd bury treasure in this state, but, not have been founded.   I have no takers to receive $100.00 for pictures of these coins.   No coins - No treasure.
Golden Rule Farm.

My belief is that the family knew nothing.I feel bates was in on the heist. He was a Captain in the army for the cause and Torey sympathizers killed the guards. Where was he and why didn't he help find the gold, killers and all. He had to know all the townspeople who at that time totaled less than 150. By the way the year is supposedly 1779 not 1799, a twenty year differance. Bates died at age 91 in 1820. He was 50 years old when the robbery occurred. Here is a passage from a book, "Out of the bitter church controversy referred to there grew a topographical map of ancient Simsbury. This map shows that about 1780 there were living in the parish twenty-eight families, -- twenty-three east and five west of the mountain."

 Also, Washington's image is supposedly on the coins. No evidence they were dollar coins. Could have been larger than that. Bates Inn was on the north side of a north and south road. Two existing main roads at the time N/S and E/W, but they would have had to go.5 mile N or S before going E or west. Due west are fields, mountains. Due East are fields, swamp.  more info to come

I have been watching this thread for a while now, and I think I have heard enough from both sides now to interject my hunch here.  

After hearing about the primary documents concerning the missing payroll (by the way, SOMEONE needs to track these documents down!), I think that the story could very well have been greatly exaggerated.  Now, here's what that means.

1.  Goldenrule--I would believe you are right to think that a heist of the reported amount of gold should appear somewhere in a newspaper or enough reputable primary documents to vouch for its truth in some part.  If this story is greatly exaggerated (and we've only heard about a "payroll" from a primary document so far on this post!), then there was a smaller cache stolen--certainly not the amount of vast amount of gold reported in the paper 150 years later.  This story from a primary document may have laid the basis for the exaggerated story about wagonloads of gold.  And in that case, there is no telling whether that payroll was ever recovered by the theives or not.

2.  Goldenrule--I agree with you that whomever pursues this tale should want to see these found coins first.  I would look through the newspaper articles and find the name and info on whoever found the last one of these and politely ask to see the coin or a photo of it.  That would settle some questions quickly, and the last one was supposedly recovered only 20 years ago or so.  Get on it, folks!  The thing that is perplexing about all of this, Goldenrule, is that the first coin was supposedly found in the stream the 40's--before the newspaper article about the treasure was printed, and before the Bates' even knew about such a story .  So we can't write this story off as entirely fabrication at this point!  This last fact does allow us at least the possibility that the story has some truth to it.

3.  I, personally, am perplexed about the continued reference to "Washington Dollars" in the info on this post.  Now, of course, we have Washington Dollars minted our country, but never has there ever been a gold "Washington Dollar."  After doing some poking around...if these were indeed French coins (regardless of how many of them there originally were--and I suspect a greatly smaller number than what the account says), it is possible that the first person (in the 40's) to find one of the said coins looked at the date of it (late 18th century) and saw the portrait on the front and ASSUMED that the portrait was of Washington himself.  After all, as you'll see in the photo there is nothing on the coin that identifies it as specifically French.  The inscriptions consist entirely of abbreviations in Latin:

But it is still troubling that something would be identified as a "dollar" if it was gold.  I would think the accounts of found coins would be much more likely to say something about these coins being gold if indeed they were even gold in the first place.  Hence, some other contemporaneous coins--close in size to the U.S. silver dollar and likewise made of silver:  First, the French ecu:

Second, the 8 reales:

All of these international currencies could have been used for payroll purposes, and any of them could have been likewise mistaken by a novice.

4. Tommy--I agree with you that the pursuit of this, even if it turns up dead ends, could put you onto some other great sites and leads.  So I don't feel that it is a waste of time.  (There might be a payroll still stashed somewhere rather than wagon loads of gold).  But I would think that talking to the people who found the coins in the creek is first priority.  One could speculate about this treasure endlessly, but actually laying eyes on said coins would greatly help this tale's reliability.
 

Regards,

Buckleboy
  

I find it odd that this year the mint is making washington dollars.  The tavern was the home of Captain Bates and his family at least up to 1965 when I interview Willaim Bates.
I read Coin World that have rare coins for sale in auctions.  The 15  1804 dollars are worth more then a million dollars each.  There are suppose to be around 5 of these so call coins.  How much do yu think these coins are worth.  This story is in Lost Treasure magazine every year going back to 1964 or before, with the author was Howard Duffy.  Remember him.  I agree that researching one story could find leads to other true stories.  So, Tom L.  good luck.  Have you see any one in a picture holding one or more of these coins with a big smile on their face?  Not me.  I would think there would had been pictures in newspapers and magazines other then treasure magazines.  I still offering $100.00 for pictures of these coins.  What can I tell you?   Golden Rule Farm.   dclovejoycook@aol.com

Great feedback from both Buckleboy and Goldenrulefarm. You guys are definately pros. I am excited that there may be other possibilities such as a small payroll, or the coins being of a differant "look". Good info.

I need to spend a couple of solid days in the libraries near that area. I need to find out who found the coins supposedly. That is a key I also believe, but you know what, I think I will also swing the metal in afew places I have hunches on over there.
Tom

Oh, and I'm what?   Chopped liver?  Gee, thanks so much. 

Sorry Treasure tale and all others. No slight intended. Lots of good feedback and i was just replying to the last couple. But after reading all of the replys over again, I can only say the pros and cons from all are important. All comments have value to me.It sometimes is the extra set of eyes that makes the differance.

I been reading Lost Treasure magazine since 1964.  I never read that any of these treasures been found.  There are so many stories about Captain Kidd bury treasures in many places in Connecticut, but, none of his treasures has been found.  Do you want to guess how many people are looking for his treasures?  I can't count that high.  As of the Rev. War story.  Most of us agree that most of the stories in treasure magazines are false.  What date do you want to start with.  1779, when the coins were suppose to be rob.  If true, how many people look for it.  One had find it, then and now.  Do you want to start with 1951, when the woman wrote letters to the Hartford Courant. How many people since then, look for it?  Do you want to start with 1964, when I first read the story in Lost Treasure magazine.  How many people read the story every year and been looking for it?  As far as five coins being found,  how come no treasure hunter has find these coins?  I got no reply to my $100.00 offer for pictures of just one coin.  Every day, Lost Treasure Magazine publish a story on the internet.  How many do you believe are true.  For people who believe the Rev War story, go for it.  Even tho The Hartford Courant never wrote about it back then.  I called this story the Lost Duthman Mine of the East.  There are so many people looking for this mine, thinking that God want them to find it.  It is the same thing with this story.
Golden Rule Farm.     dclovejoycook@aol.com

Just have to throw in my 2 cents.  I didn't read every word from this thread but you did say you were using old maps.  How old?  River/creek beds change greatly over the decades.  And old maps are not the most reliable depended greatly on the skills of the person making the map.

So, does it really matter if the treasure story is real?  Don't we all hope to hit 'the big one'?  Isn't that why we're out there?  I would question any one who said they never had the thought of coming across a great cache.  Keep looking.  Who knows what you will find!!  And if you never find it, at least you know that you tried (and I'll take that over the pontificating of the impossibility of success any day)

Yep, I agree with FF about trying to find the treasure, even if it doesn't exist.  You will always kick yourself if you don't give it a try.  I spent over 20 years looking for a specific treasure based on a legend and some old primary materials, never did find it (if I had I wouldn't be sitting here at home).  But I have the memories of the adventures that arose from my search.  And I found a few things worth keeping in the process of looking for the treasure legend.  It's all good.   GO FOR IT! 

I agree with you "Treasure Tales", I am faced with the same kind of situation up here in Potter County, Pa. Three major "treasure tales"...people been lookin' for them for decades. Doesn't discourage me in the least. I plan on being out in the forests and hills all this summer along with some other guys. At the very least we will find someting worth hanging onto, get some good pics of the areas, and contribute to the overall research that has already been done. Hope to dispell some of the misconceptions about the treasures, add some additional insights, and have a lot of fun doin' it. Along the way might just find some heretofore undiscovered sites to do some MD'ing, get some new leads and accumulate a lot of experience. What elso would a treasure hunter want outside of the "Big Strike".

No that's what it's about.

 Positive Thinking !  ;)

& alot of Fun.

I've read this thread, but didn't respond because it is similar to too many just like it.  A story is read about, it "must" be true, and the search begins.  Detractors exist, and the battle goes on.

But, in this one, there is one thing that I thin k could make or break the answer.

<<From what i have read, in 1944 a hiker found one in a stream. Called it  a Washington dollar. In 1958 three more were supposedly found near a brook and they were supposedly identified as Washington dollars. In 1987 one more was found by a woman and it was identified as a Washington dollar. it also was near a branch of a stream.  These accounts were all found in a book written by WC Jameson>>

ALL in ONE book.  Okay, instead of researching the story from 200 years ago, research the story that is RECENT.  FIND the people that found these coins.  Do they EXIST?

it is easier to determine if THES E people exist than if coins 200 plus years old exist!  SO, CHANGE your research, and look for these people.

See if you can find an article in the appear about a woman in 1987 finding a coin.  That wouldn't be too hard to do.  Then go back to 1958 and also 1944.  If you can find even ONE of these stories, with (as someone already said) a photo of a person holding a coin and smiling, then you have something.  If your research shows up NOTHING o ANY of them, then a quesion needs to be asked.  How could WC Jameson find out about ALL THREE if you can find out bout NONE?  And the answer would be that he COULD NOT.  He made it up.

Yes, change your research.  IF this is true, there MUST e a way that Mr Jameson found out about the three finds.  And that research could be duplicated.

Personally, I think this story is NOT true.  For all the reasons that were given above.  I look at both sides of the argument, and see on one side a preponderance of facts that say the coins did not exist, the tavern owner's family say it never happened, the papers never covered it at ALL, the letter supposedly written confessing to it was shown to write about some OTHER robbery (a BIG red flag to this one being true!), and lots more.  ON the other side, I see hope and faith, but nothing factual.  And insults hurled at the ones discussing the facts that contradict the story ("you think the earth is flat?").  But, you know what?  It DOESN"T MATTER what I think, or others think.  What matters is research.  FIND THOSE PEOPLE.  Find ONE of them, and you can be extremely convinced that this story has SOME truth to it.  Find NONE Of them, and Mr Jameson probably found none either, and made up dates and numbers to go with his "tale".

Start there, and let us all know what you find.  And, even though I think this one probably doesn't exist, I'll still cheer you on in your research and rejoice with you if you find one of those people.  :-)

John  (Oh, and I've written over 70 stories for W&E T and LT ... plus Treasure Facts and a few others no longer in business.  But, stories mostly on "How To" instead of on specific lost caches.  Even as a writer, I believe a majority of the cache stories are rehashes of past false stories.  IF they were all true, there would be more coins lost and buried than were even minted!)

What can I tell you?  If you thrown 13 wagons loads of gold coins in a brook, they would have damn it up.  Then, how would you get them out of the brook, if you put them there.  People make up stories about these coins being found.  I still have a offer of $100.00 for pictures for just one coin.  It is getting better, I am offering $100.00 for any newspaper or magazines pictures of persons holding these coins with a big smile on their face.  I wondering how much these coins are worth each?  If this happen in 1779, Written letters to the Hartford Cournat in 1951, Publish in Lost Treasure magazine at least in 1964 or before, every year.  How come many professional treasure hunters never found the treasure?  Before you look for it, ask yourself, how many containers and trucks you would need to remove the coins, and where or where are you going to store them?  I been researching this story since 1964.   There are so many stories about Captain Kidd burying treasures in Connecticut and they were never found and I am not looking for them.   I don't make fun of people, it is just not my style.  If you believe the story, go for it, but, first:   RESEARCH BEFORE YOU SEARCH.    Connecticut Sam   dclovejoycook@peoplepc.com

Dear Friends

I have a new address and still no pictures of the gold washington coins.

Connecticut  Sam

lovejoydc@peoplepc.com

Another thing to research would be army records of the era.  A payroll heist would definitely go into the official record.  Somebody somewhere would have been responsible for that money, and if any of it went missing (for whatever reason), a report would have been made ("CYA" is not something new) in connection with an investigation.

Tommy,
Trust the research you do yourself,
here is what I found just poking around today.

There is a lot of Wonderful info to glean from all of this thread.

But try a bit of common since too.
First off after 1789 the army wasn't a revolutionary army any longer. By 1790 anyone who was not planning to make a career of the army was already home or on the way.

The currency and amounts made are pretty much common knowledge. right down to the dies used to make the coinage. This was over two hundred years ago, there weren't hydraulic presses like there are now, these coins were hand struck.

Ref.. Coin World, Red book... and others

The coinage from numerous countries was accepted in commerce for 30 + years even after the war of 1812 especially since the larger coins were pretty hard on the minting crew and even more so on the dies themselves

The earliest authorised American made Gold coins were issued by the mint in 1792 with the dollar being the smallest at 24 3/4 grains of Gold.
I have never even seen a picture of one of these coins but given the years of the supposed mintages (quantity unknown )..... Yes this story is entirely possible....

Sure would like to see one of those little beauties

If you find one, you very likely could NAME YOUR PRICE !
It very well may be the only known copy.


OD

Hello. I am a nineteen year old from Indiana...I am not a treasure hunter by any means and I don't consider myself to be very smart when it comes to riddles. I have done some research and tried to figure out this mystery. I was wondering...Since the Revolutionary War was between Britan and the US is it possible that the coins are really British? Let me explain what I mean.. If we look into history we see that during the 1799 time period, GEORGE the III ruled Great Britan, there is one similarity...George Washing, George The III they both share the same first name. In 1799 Great Britan had a gold coin in circulation called the "Guinea" which was equal to 20-21 shillings. Britan stopped production of shillings in 1966 so I found a shilling - pound ratio converter thing. 21 shillings is equivilent to 1 pound...So then I took 1 pound and translated it into the US dollar. It came out as 1 pound equals 1.9 US dollars, I am no money expert but is it possible that over the years the Pound increased in value, so perhaps a long time ago 21 shillings was equal to 1 US dollar? So perhaps people mistook the coin for a "dollar" because it has such a uncanny resemblence to the US George Washington dollar. I found a website with information on them.

http://24carat.co.uk/guineasgeorgeiiispadeframe.html

If you notice the pictures of George the III you will see that he has a slight resemblence to George Washington. So I was asking, is it possible that these 1799 Guineas are being mistaken for 1799 George Washing gold coins?

I am far from a coin expert I know and I am sorry if this information makes no sense as I am slightly intimidated with all of you seasoned hunters around. I am looking to purchase my first Metal Detector when I get the money but am struggling on which one to buy. I really appriciate you guys taking the time to read this and I hope that one day I can be as educated and successful as all of you. ^_^

EDIT: Oops! I am really sorry to edit this but I also wanted to point out that on the Guineas it says the name "Georgious" so is it possible that people announce the coins "George Washington Dollars" since there are so many coincedences between the two?

Pirate,
You could have a point.
At the time though, with the memory of the British abuses,
I really don't think there would be too much chance of that kind of a mistake.
I think they would have smelted the gold and minted new coins from the gold.

Tommy,
I personally think that there may be enough info to give credence to your story.
If you feel like still looking for the loot, There may be 2.5 mil(continental) out there just waiting for you. Can you imagine the amount that would be worth at the going rate today?

Get after it kid, there is enough info here to send quite a few folks out to find it.

And the race is on.....

OD

I went ahead and did a little more research. It says that the "Guineas" stopped production in 1799 which would suggest that the coins would have been melted to make new ones, like Old Dog suggested. There was a massive gold shortage and is there a small possibility that the US Revolutionary soldiers seized the gold? Maybe they stole it and then it was stolen from them. Here is some more info on "Guineas," the 1799 generation was under the rule of King George III.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinea_coin

However.. This website shows that the Guinea was ACTUALLY the main gold coin of Britian until 1813, under King George III (See the Last Paragraph on this page)

http://www.goldsovereigns.co.uk/uniteandguineas.html

This would mean that even though they stopped production on the coin in 1799 there were enough Guineas left to last 14 years. Being that the coin was the MAIN gold source of great Britian it would suggest that it was a lot more common than we think.

Does anyone know the possibility of a US Heist on a stash of Guineas? I'm all for documentation but if the US "stole" that money from the British then perhaps they would keep it under wrap..I guess that is something for all the conspiricists to ponder.

[doubt]

Frankly, I doubt that the gold (even if dumped into the stream) stayed there for very long.  Something that important in post-revolutionary America would have been sought and recovered by locals, those who dumped it, or by anybody else in a hurry to make a lot of money fast.  There may actually have been a few coins that did not get recovered from the site, and those may be the ones that have been reported found through the years.  Just as with the coins that were lost by the armored truck in Florida several years ago, most of the coins were eventually recovered but many remain lost or grabbed by others. 

I say, search for the treasure and if nothing else it would make a great story for Lost Treasure Magazine. 

Here's my theory; This huge cache was somehow transported to the area in Ct. that kiddrock33 is currently in the process of uncovering. (see thread; http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,26087.0.html ).

 The Housatonic River is a river, approximately 149 mi (240 km) long, in western Massachusetts and western Connecticut in the United States.

Well wouldn't that be interesting!  OK, I vote for this theory.  Sounds as plausible as any other IMHO. 

If remnants have been found after the fact its not a bad start.  Locate each of these findings and verify they are legitimate, study the hydrology overlay and natural erosion occurances for the area.  It will lead you to the source.

To answer the original question, I suggest that you approach the problem as if it was you who were trying to cache the money. This requires old maps, familiarization with the area, and identifying landmarks that they might have used for their return to recover it. I found an empty cache site, in this manner, that once held the multi-million dollar fortune of a prohibition gangster. I've noticed that many suggest that you can always find a trail of breadcrumbs leading to the treasure if you do enough research. That's not true. You may just have to apply your own intuition and do the legwork. I'm not knocking research. But, I've come to believe that you have to use your own strengths. I'm not a good researcher. In the above case, I just got out there and looked, using my common sense and intuition. Perhaps there was info that would have made my search easier. But, I didn't find it. There are clearly good researchers who post here. There are also armchair treasure hunters, who will never find anything. It would be great to find some useful info. But, it just may not exist. Just get started, and don't wait for someone here to tell you what to do or where to look. General concepts; During the revolutionary war there was much irregular activity behind the scenes, with each side doing what is could to affect the outcome. Tax collectors from each side levying the citizens to finance the war effort, with much war profiteering going on. These gangs of "tax collectors" robbed each other and attempted to bully and intimdate the citizens on the other side, who very often knew each other. These were former neighbors, who were forced to take sides once the conflict started. The battles were often fought by militia, rather than regular army forces, with the members returning to their homesteads after the fight. You can be sure that, though Bates was a captain in the colonial militia, Bates tavern held few secrets from the other side. The question was raised as to whether or not Bates was in on the robbery, if there was one. Good point. I think not. Because, his family would have had the trappings of wealth and mobility, not indicated by his family continuing to run the tavern. The transportation of such a fortune would surely have been a closely guarded secret. Would Bates have know in advance? If France sent the money, whose coin did they send? Perhaps they did not send French coin, if they wanted to conceal their fingerprints from the British. France had the resources to do so. If you focus on the details that some may emphasize, you could be putting blinders on, or even get discouraged. So, the answere is that there is no answer. We don't know the details, and they may not exist. To even find one coin would make your efforts rewarded. Get out there. After an extensive and distinguished law enforcement career, my strength is getting inside criminal minds. These would have been murders and robbers, commiting their crime behind the guise of loyalty to their cause. I'm not sure that this is real. But, I'll give you this scenario. I've estimated about a ton and a half of coin, not 13 wagon loads, though there may have been 13 supply wagons. When the coin was discovered, they would have stayed on the regular roads long enough to get away from the scene of the crime. But, not too far, lest they be spotted. Then they would have gotten off the road to bury the cache. But, not too far, for the wagons were heavy, and, then, probably out of sight from the road to avoid being spotted by a passerby, say behind a hill, around a lake, or along a stream. Thus, concealment along with the landmark to find it again. There would have been a landmark for them to find it again. They would have wanted to deny the colonials of the money, while keeping it themselves for the future. The slitting of the throats, rather than musket or sword, was to maintain silence, which means they were concerned about being spotted, and the guards were dismounted from the wagons. Probably, at the taven when the guards were liquored up, thanks to Captain Bates hospitality. The placement of the wagons, afterward, would have been to distract the inevitable search party from finding the actual location. Thus, the cache location is probably slightly farther from the tavern, than the field where the wagons were found, But, I'd guess, in the same general direction. So, view old maps to see what roads existed, side by side with new topo maps, having the details not represented on the old maps, to identify potential sites. Then, visits to the area to sort them out and prioritize your search. Start within a half mile of where the wagons were later found. At least I've tried to tell you something useful. Good luck.

i've been looking for this cashe for six years. in the woods 18 times; used a electroscope and detector,  found musket balls  flintlock parts .this area is known for copper,but is loaded with gold. the year before i started looking i researched for 100s of hours, i can tell you this ,it did happen  G. Washington made a statement after he was president about it. he stated that it was 1.2 million in 20franc 1778 gold.and i'll bet the farm that henry wooster had nothing to do with it. LOOKUP SEIZURE OF HENRY WOOSTER and read all of it! i know this area like the back of my hand now,ITS THERE. DONT STOP LOOKING.i'll be back in the spring.  :advise ,stay low at first near water easy digging [swamp]. any higher all rock. if you know of any mine air shafts are; that would help to!  good luck   and if you need my pickup to haul it just give me a call.

Bob, you need to go meet-up with kiddrock33. You will find him over on The Revolutionary War, with this thread;  http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,29033.0.html

i've been looking for this cashe for six years. in the woods 18 times; used a electroscope and detector,  found musket balls  flintlock parts .this area is known for copper,but is loaded with gold. the year before i started looking i researched for 100s of hours, i can tell you this ,it did happen  G. Washington made a statement after he was president about it. he stated that it was 1.2 million in 20franc 1778 gold.and i'll bet the farm that henry wooster had nothing to do with it. LOOKUP SEIZURE OF HENRY WOOSTER and read all of it! i know this area like the back of my hand now,ITS THERE. DONT STOP LOOKING.i'll be back in the spring.  :advise ,stay low at first near water easy digging [swamp]. any higher all rock. if you know of any mine air shafts are; that would help to!  good luck   and if you need my pickup to haul it just give me a call.

Welcome to Tnet Bob...sounds like you've spent some time pursuing this..can you reveal the source of GW's  statement about this?.......the coin you mentioned in his statement could be mistaken as a "washington dollar" ....were you able to verify any supposed "recent finds"?....I still find this story intriguing....thanks for the post..

This is some real fascinating stuff, sure would be cool if it is found!

HH
vegasmtl

 Hi Tom: In my opinion,,you have alot of info here already, it may not be to where the heist can be proven Or disproved,,alot of years goneby,,If I believed this story,,not saying I dont,,> I would get together with some of the guys here that live close to the sight,, do a quick search of that streambed,any ravine,ditch, or gulley that emptys into the stream during a hard rain, several guys hunting with you can cover a good sized area pretty quick,,ya might just get lucky,, what could it hurt to try, Im sure you have probably wasted a day or two in your life doing less,, I have,, Ya gotta play to win. It would be fun even if ya dont find anything,,Those Streams have changed since 1779, count on it,, Ponds that were there in 1779 would probably be gone now,, If you know the location of the heist, where the wagon was found,thats a darn good start on something that happened in 1779. Id get some guys together take a couple days & do a quick search first,,see what your up against,actually look the sight over, then research the heck outa it. If there were Coins found in the Stream by just looking down & finding them,,you are going to find coins with a good detector also,, If there are coins in that streambed, the source cant be far away. Wish I lived closer Id go with ya just for the fun of it.
                   Les

hello, i know this post has been dead for some time. i live like 5 min from east granby and would be interested in going detecting along the salmon brook. it cant hurt any....any other locals want to help?

Man, sounds pretty far-fetched. I did a rough calculation of it if it was all gold and found it would be 2,200 pounds based on the 1 escudo. Coin would probably be the French D'or Ecu. With a million of these coins, you probably could have run the whole revolution for 3 to 4 years.

in 1779 france made gold coins * that to a untrained unknowing american finders mind seeing a 1779 date could easily be thought of as a "washington" figure rather than a frenchman --- see above---and the terms "dollars" is what we call money --if the finder  assumed it to be a "american" coin --"tada"-- gold george washington dollars --  which could be in fact --french gold coins-- and the chest sizes might not be huge wooden boxes ****  boxes full of gold are heavy for their size due to its dense nature .-----  why were the guards killed yet bates spared ? inside job --very possible -- several men had to set up this operation -- since the tale says almost all  the men were tracked down and killed at the time --except woosley who was caught but later got away to england  (did bates help him escape possibly-- knowing woosley could never return of course )---woosley of course having taken part in treason and robbery with murder attached to it --had a date with a hangman if he ever returned to the area --so he could not return --so he sent  others in his place to fetch up the treasure  as his  "partners"  -- the indains killed then off it seems ** the factual letter written by the rev war soldier (newgate prison)  stating he had not been paid his wages due to the theft of the shipment and with some of the details of the robbery -- lend some "backbone" to this tale --since it is indeed of the "time frame" in question---- the local papers --would as american loyalist "papers" would not speak of tories doing such harm due to fears of turning the people veiws into "we losing the war against the british --see the tories / british  took all our money we were promised"--- and washington wouldn't want the french to know that the money entrusted to him --had been carelessly lost either. (so a news blackout of sorts)--- plus then just as they would now the USA govt wanted to hopefully be able to recover it lost money .--- and loose lips would not be help in that .------  think f it like this if a armored car with say 50 million from the us treasury in it was hijacked today and stolen away --and the govt later on caught up with a killed the group that did it --do you think the govt would want the local area papers printing "hints" on where local area people might find said "govt" cash?--- I think not -- and USA treasury money is USA  treasury money now and "forever" -- just because it was lost in 1779 doesn't mean that as "LOST USA GOVT FUNDS" that the US govt would not claim it just as fast as if it was a hijacked armored car shipment from today--being its gold even faster most likely  something one should think of very carefully be going "public" if one should find said loot.

the 2 to 2 1/2 million figure given as its value was most likely the converted worth at todays gold values .

I would research as throughly as possible to make sure the events are solid -- once I was sure that the tale is "historically valid"--- knowing that gold is heavy and thus slow to move  and that they had a limited amount of time to do this -- which means  they also had a "limited range" of how far they could travel  and also knowing the local terrian would be taken into account -- now the area of the "found" coins tip off if valid -- needs to be checked up on very closely as they either crossed the river (loosing a few coins as they did so)-- at or just above where the coins were found or the coin stash or part of it at least  is buried up stream of the spot where they were found .

Missed a conversion factor: 1,100 pounds of gold. In 80 pound chests= 14 2-man movable chests. I would say the chest would be about 40" long and be like other camp chests/strong boxes. Well, at least it is physicly possible to get them onto two wagons.

I thought the troops were paid in redeemable vouchers. This much gold I would think would be used to back up credit and pay off vouchers or paper money as they came in. You could have probably run a whole state's treasury on this type of reserve.  

Missed a conversion factor: 1,100 pounds of gold. In 80 pound chests= 14 2-man movable chests. I would say the chest would be about 40" long and be like other camp chests/strong boxes. Well, at least it is physicly possible to get them onto two wagons.

I thought the troops were paid in redeemable vouchers. This much gold I would think would be used to back up credit and pay off vouchers or paper money as they came in. You could have probably run a whole state's treasury on this type of reserve.  

The chests would have to be rather small,
a chest 40" long would most likely hold half the hoard and be impossible to move.

If pure, a cube of gold 12"X12"X12" is 2000 lbs

Consider that gold is not very bulky and is especially heavy for it's size.

I was trying to factor in what they could have used to store the money from what was available. If you consider the use of a campain chest type box, then you are looking at 40 inches long. If it could have been some type of munitions chest, then it might have been closer to a 24 inch cube. The 80 lb weight per box is based on being able to move it rather quickly with two men per box.

I was trying to factor in what they could have used to store the money from what was available. If you consider the use of a campain chest type box, then you are looking at 40 inches long. If it could have been some type of munitions chest, then it might have been closer to a 24 inch cube. The 80 lb weight per box is based on being able to move it rather quickly with two men per box.

Think more along the lines of tobacco or nail kegs.
(at least that size anyway)

This story is total untrue. It started with a letter from a crazy lady to a Hartford Newspaper in 1951.  I started treasure hunting in 1964, because I was a coin collector.  France never minted those coins. Yes, there is a Bate Tavern in East Granby. Nobody never found any gold coins in a brook or anywhere else.  This story is in Lost Treasure at least 2 times a year for over 30 years. This year, it must had been publish at least 4 times.  I feel sorry for the family living in the Tavern.  Every time the story get publish, more people knock on their door for information.The story was never publish in local or state history books. The family never heard of the story until they had read the letter in the newspaper.  You be wasting you time and money if you look for it.  If true, it would had been found many many years ago.

Several things indicate that the french did not give us any money in 1797.
First they were in the middle of their Revolution and starting in 1798 and running to about 1802 their navy was attacking our ships and we were involved in the Quasi War. A total of over 200 ships were captured and
sunk on both sides. That war was unique for two reasons. It may have
been the first large scale "undeclared" war and it for damn sure is the
only war i can think of where all the battles were fought at sea and none
on land. The Revolutionary War ended more than a decade before 1797
and any Tories were long gone by then and petitioning the Crown for restoration and compensation for their lost property. The rich among them
had removed to england and the caribbean islands. Most of the poor loyalists had removed north to canada. Outlaws who were branded Tories may have
still existed but they were mainly outlaws before the war and outlaws after the war and allied with the british for supplies and sanctuary.
   As to the amounts there has always been a glaring problem with treasure stories. A robbery or loss is documented to have been a particular amount. The earliest accounts state that amount. Along comes Joe Anal Retentive who calculates and publishes the value based on the wholesale value of the coins. Next up comes Bob Lazy who uses the second value and again calculates the cache value based on the wholesale value of the coins. If this happens a few times a $1000 treasure can and does get reported as a multi-million dollar hoard. All of the facts are then adjusted to reflect the increased value. A satchel full of gold doesn't equal the reported amount so it becomes 13 barrels. Thirteen barels would not fit on an ox cart so there were five ox carts. In all cases you need to first go back to the earliest accounts and then make your plans. As a general rule I've found that any legendary treasure that can be found with the reported facts has been found. If you get new facts it is worth a search - especially if they lead you to an area where no one else has searched. Since you report the find of small numbers of coins in a particular spot it would not be foolish to go to those spots and coin shoot. You may get lucky and find a couple of coins. siegfried schlagrule

As I stated before. France never minted these gold coin for themselves or for our country. The story of 13 wagons load of gold coins is untrue.
No single coins were found.  The Bates family who live in the tavern never heard of the story until they read the letter in the Harford newspaper.  Don't waste your time or money looking for nothing.

Connecticut Sam

First thing is give it up on the 1799 guys! It had to be 1779!
Like a few have pointed out....the WAR was over by 1799 and if Washington mentions the loss of the payroll (would like to see the citation on that) then it happened! The man’s writings are in several volumes of books at major university libraries...look it up. Or whoever is claiming to have found it PLEASE tell us where you found it.
Now about this letter the guy wrote back to his mom….any documentation of this? Can you get a copy? Seems like this is just a little questionable, I would have sent someone back to get the gold if I was afraid of being arrested even if the first attempt failed! WE need to document the source of the letter.
Just for general references: In the Revolutionary war era the American paper money lost value, it got so low that one hundred dollars in American (paper) money was only worth one Spanish Silver dollar! Even a simple thing like a bushel of corn took one hundred and fifty dollars paper to purchase! Remember the old slogan, “it isn’t worth a Continental”?  They did authorize the minting of a continental dollar in silver, pewter, and brass. There was no American mint at that time…each state produced their own, so it had to come from someone (other country). The establishment of the American mint was in 1782, but it was years until it came about. So if the coins we are talking about were for the Americans it is no doubt they were of French origin. Something had to be done to improve the creditability of the Americans financially, so the idea of the gold shipment seem plausible to me.  These were troublesome times and with both the American and shortly later the French in revolution, the main matters of the day were survival of the revolution, not always money related.
I was thinking that there may be a couple of other scenarios, if the streambed was rocky and not over 3-4 feet deep they may have drove the wagons up or down stream. Remember streams were used just like roads in those days and really even into the modern age in some areas. They may have unloaded at a seclude barn, buried the coins under the dirt floor of the barn, and then drove the wagons back….hit the road, divided up, run the horses & wagons off and skedaddled.  Or maybe you unload and hand carry the boxes of coins into the woods, put them into a hole or and bury them….the problem with that is the top of the ground disturbance. So you find a shallow cave, (preferably under a cliffy area) place the stuff in it, stack rocks across the front, and then throw dirt over the rocks. This makes a natural looking occurrence.  I found where some Indians did this in KY when they had buried 4 kegs of money in the late 1700s, (however they came back or someone found it before I did) but the stacked rocks with dirt are still there.
Does anyone have the local Indian history? The one part of the legend that states the group of guys got together to retrieve the coins, but were killed by Indians…..is that plausible….how does it fit into local history?  Is there record of the killings? If not, were the Indians causing problems in that area?  We know about the French and Indian war, and how the British used them against the Americans….does it fit time wise?  Indians were not always roaming the woods just killing settlers, some areas were trouble free.
Somehow I think this one could be true. The offer of the $100 for a picture needs to be not only on this forum, but in the newspaper of the area the coins were found in. Make an offer of $50 to go to the person who can tell you who found the coins….after you confirm it of course.

from
 Topic #7 Posted Nov 23, 2006, 10:39:48 AM
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index....opic,58355.msg413928.html#msg413928

Great comments thus far. According to an article rom Lost treasure, Gen George Washington stated that the lost
Gold coins were French and were borrowed to support the plight of the colonials and GW. The war officially ended
 in 1781 but was offically over in 1783.

Also, the French were very supportive of the colonists and were against the British. Don't know what a French
gold coin would look like from back then. Tom
==============================================================
the story sounded interesting, i thought id take a look at it, here is some stuff i found

i just glanced, through some of the pgs, at this link concerning the American Revolution and did not
see any mention in Georges papers, of gold coin borrowed from france, does not mean its not there,
at least its a start point, to see if there is a mention of that fact. good luck with the reading
maybe some of this info will help you piece it together

some of the pgs are blank, and some are not, in the,George Washington, Revolutionary War Expense Account,
i only checked a few, some are hard to read
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query

in case link doesnt work, my search was........george washington revolutionary war.........
at this link
http://www.loc.gov/index.html

which took me here  
http://www.loc.gov/fedsearch/metase...onary%20war)&filter=pz:id=lcweb|ammem|catalog|ppoc|thomas

from above link click, George Washington, Revolutionary War Expense Account
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query


and i found a wiki disscusion about france and revolutionary war, they were not keen on loaning $$$,
but plenty of ammo, and soldiers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_in_the_American_Revolutionary_War

could it be that the found coins were just some stray lost pocket spill from that era

coins from that era
http://www.coins.nd.edu/ColCoin/ColCoinContents/Contents12.html

Washington Military Bust Die Variety Charts
http://www.coins.nd.edu/ColCoin/Col...Contents/DieCharts.html#Wdrapeddies

THE HISTORY OF THE EARLY UNITED STATES MINT -
1781 to 1791 by Ron Guth/ bottom of pg has more date links
http://www.coinfacts.com/mint_histo...781_1791/mint_history_1781_1791.htm

edited i forgot another link to George Washington, Revolutionary War Expense Account
has links to these pgs too
General Account Books | Colonial Military Financial Accounts | George Washington's Cash Memorandum Books |
Revolutionary War Financial Accounts | Presidency and Retirement Period Financial Accounts
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/gwhtml/gwseries5.html

if you google  George Washington, Revolutionary War Expense Account
you get some interesting stuff too

Sorry you guys appear convinced that this treasure story is untrue. Maybe not enough research on your part. I believe it is real and so do many others. Here is a taste for you........ Check out this website: http://www.marxists.org/archive/beard/history-us/ch06.htm

Here is an excerpt from History of the United States. Charles Beard, Mary Beard, 1921

CHAPTER VI
THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION
"The Finances of the Revolution"
When the Revolution opened, there were thirteen little treasuries in America but no common treasury, and from first to last the Congress was in the position of a beggar rather than a sovereign. Having no authority to lay and collect taxes directly and knowing the hatred of the provincials for taxation, it resorted mainly to loans and paper money to finance the war. “Do you think,” boldly inquired one of the delegates, “that I will consent to load my constituents with taxes when we can send to the printer and get a wagon load of money, one quire of which will pay for the whole?"

Paper Money and Loans. – Acting on this curious but appealing political economy, Congress issued in June, 1776, two million dollars in bills of credit to be redeemed by the states on the basis of their respective populations. Other issues followed in quick succession. In all about $241,000,000 of continental paper was printed, to which the several states added nearly $210,000,000 of their own notes. Then came interest-bearing bonds in ever increasing quantities. Several millions were also borrowed from France and small sums from Holland and Spain.   In desperation a national lottery was held, producing meager results. The property of Tories was confiscated and sold, bringing in about $16,000,000. Begging letters were sent to the states asking them to raise revenues for the continental treasury, but the states, burdened with their own affairs, gave little heed.

Not enough boys......How about this piece taken from a book called Newgate in Connecticut 1st edition written around 1830 by Richard Phelps.of East Granby CT...............

"Lemuel Bates was a captain during the Revolution, and participated in several battles. For many years Captain Bates kept a tavern in the north part of East Granby, in the house where his grandson, "Win. H. Bates, now lives. The merry old gentleman was fond of fighting his battles over again by relating his reminiscences of those interesting times. After the surrender of Burgoyne, with his once splendid army of 10,000 men, at Saratoga, several detachments of the British prisoners of war were marched through East Granby, and a portion of them bivouacked on the premises of Captain Bates. " The British had plenty of money," said Captain Bates, " to pay for the best we had; and my folks were kept busy in distributing pitchers and pails of cider among them. At night all the floors in my tavern were spread over with them."
Another portion of the British captives encamped on the premises of Captain Roswell Phelps,* near the centre of East Granby. These prisoners of war were an interesting sight, and excited an inspiring curiosity in all this region.
At one time several teams laden with specie, en route from Boston to Philadelphia, halted for the night at Captain Bates's. The specie had been borrowed from France; which nation was then fraternally aiding us in our struggle. It was enclosed in strong plank boxes, drawn by thirteen teams, well guarded; and amounted to several millions of dollars"

Hope you get the drift of "Specie" and if still not convinced leave it for the rest of us to find.
Terrible Tommy

tommyl since you found a reference to bates and tavern and the story of the gold and
since the article was wrote in 1921, could it be the story had been embelshised over the years,
maybe there is a treasure just not that sum
your article
http://www.marxists.org/archive/beard/history-us/ch06.htm


found a note here for lemuel bates, and a couple of other people under his command
might help with your research

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb...enealogy123/tree01-07-2003/np5.html
Note for:   Hezekiah Holcomb,   27 JAN 1726/27 - ABT. 1794         Index
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Database: Daughters of the American Revolution Lineage Books (152 Vols.)
Combined Matches: 3
The National Society of the Daughters of the American Revolution Volume 17
page 40
Mrs. Harriet Matilda Merwin Briggs.
DAR ID Number: 16100
Born in Granby, Connecticut.
Wife of Fred L. Briggs.
Descendant of Capt. Lemuel Bates, Capt. Hezekiah Holcomb, Hezekiah Holcomb, Jr., Phineas Griswold and Peter Van Dyke.
Daughter of Henry Merwin and Julia Matilda Holcomb, his wife.
Granddaughter of Lemuel Cicero Holcomb (1796-1880) and Julia Griswold, his wife; Jesse Merwin and Jane Van Dyke, his
wife.
Gr.-granddaughter of Hezekiah Holcomb, Jr., and Dorothy Bates, his first wife; Peter Van Dyke and Maria Youland, his
wife; Phineas Griswold and Vashte Bates, his wife.
Gr.-gr.-granddaughter of Hezekiah Holcomb and Susanna Alderman, his wife; Lemuel Bates and Deborah Lewis, his wife.
Lemuel Bates, (1729-1820), was appointed ensign of the Alarm company, Eighteenth regiment, 1777, and captain, 1778.
He was born in East Granby, Conn., where he died.
Hezekiah Holcomb, (1726-94), commanded a company in the Eleventh regiment of militia in the New York campaign, 1776.
He was born in Simsbury, Conn., where he died.
Also No. 14578.
Hezekiah Holcomb, Jr., (1750-1820), was a member of the Alarm company from Simsbury, 1779, under Capt. Lemuel Bates.
 He was born in Simsbury, Conn., and died in Granby.
Phineas Griswold, (1750-89), served as private in Capt. David Barber's company, First regiment militia. He re-enlisted
, 1777, for three years in Capt. John Harmon's company on duty in New York and was detailed to guard Burgoyne's prisoners.
 He was born in Windsor, Conn., where he died.
Peter Van Dyke, (1767-1810), served as a drummer boy in the New York levies, 1780, in Capt. Isaac Bogart's company for
 the defense of the frontier. He was born in Kinderhook, N. Y., where he died.

a list of lemuel bates
http://www.myheritage.com/FP/smart-...p?offset=0&l=bates&f=lemuel

Lemuel Bates more info must be a member
http://www.myheritage.com/person-4002977_1_440903/Lemuel-Bates

login join My Heritage Genealogy
http://www.myheritage.com/
................................................. .....................
if there is a treasure, its not in the mines
http://books.google.com/books?id=yx...Phelps#v=onepage&q=&f=false

more books
http://books.google.com/books?q=New...ichard+Phelps&btnG=Search+Books
==============================================================
stolen from revolutionary war troops,  IE:2 million dollar, not sure they had enough money,
all in one place, at any given time, maybe there is a treasure just not that sum

The Men Behind the American Revolution: Robert Morris by: Rick Brainard

"He slashed all governmental and military expenditures, personally purchased army and navy supplies, tightened
accounting procedures, prodded the states to fulfill quotas of money and supplies, and when necessary strained
his personal credit by issuing notes over his own signature or borrowing from friends

Morris used in part, the above method and a loan from France to fund Washington's Yorktown campaign. He used a
portion of this loan and his own personal fortune to fund, and charter the First Bank of North America that same year.
http://www.history1700s.com/articles/article1141.shtml
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Depreciation of Paper Currency during the Revolution

Gold and/or silver coins, often referred to as "specie", were commonly used as payment for goods or services rendered
in the colonial period. The problem with specie was that each Colony rated the coins differently and there were a
wide variety of coins in circulation: English coins, French coins, Spanish coins, Portuguese coins, etc…. Because
colonial authorities frequently revised exchange rates to encourage and discourage the use of certain coins in
circulation, there was a lack of consistency in determining the value of foreign currency among the colonies. These
issues were minimal in comparison to the ones paper money would cause during the Revolution.
http://mybrothersamisdead.historyof...om/my-brother-sam-is-dead_money.htm




 

i was thinking if bates, had anything to do with the gold, maybe the horse in the field was a ruse
and maybe,its on his property,if you wanted to search there you have to talk to, Daryl Hall, of hall and oates
or klemm real estate
http://www.passport-mag.com/site/ne...AG=461&dept_id=672335&rfi=6

update on bates tavern, Daryl Hall of hall and oates owns it

The Bates Tavern was built about 1770 in East Granby, Conn., on the main road between Hartford and Springfield, Mass.
 The innkeeper's name was Lemuel Bates, and he and his descendants lived in the house for 230 years or so, until Kay,
the last of the Bates family, died recently. Her friend and inheritor Emily Aldrich was intent on finding someone to
restore the house-as Kay fervently wished-rather than tearing it down. She was delighted when Mr. Hall stepped in and
bought it.
History has it that the tavern always had a gray cat on the premises. Not long after renovations began on Mr. Hall's
land, a gray cat appeared. The Hall team adopted the fortunate feline, which became the "haunted" cat referred to by
 Mr. Black.
The Oliver Hanchett house was found in Suffield, Conn., a few miles from Granby. It is a slightly later and somewhat
grander house, with two fireplace stacks and a spacious center hall. In researching the histories of the two houses,
 Mr. Hall found that Oliver Hanchett's daughter Rachel married one of Lemuel Bates' sons and lived the rest of her
life in the Bates Tavern. Her son William Hanchett Bates inherited the house. "So these houses truly belong together,
" said Mr. Hall.
Renovations have been under way for several years, and although Mr. Hall, two cats and several house guests are
happily ensconced there, the work isn't finished. On the day of the interview-a crisp and sunny one-there were special
ist workers everywhere, clearing land for a future sheep pasture, sprucing up an outbuilding, fashioning walls, and
building a fire pit. Even when the Dutchess County project is finished, the beat will continue.

more
http://www.luxist.com/2009/07/19/da...halls-flint-hill-estate-of-the-day/
nice photo gallery at the link

Daryl Hall's Flint Hill, Estate of the Day by Deidre Woollard (RSS feed) Jul 19th 2009 at 1:01PM

Hall created one massive home by combining two homes, one from 1770 and one from 1786 (the 1786 Oliver Hanchett House
from Suffield, Connecticut and the nearby 1770 Bates Tavern of East Granby, Connecticut) which were disassembled, moved
 from their original locations and combined on the home. The homes are joined by a huge great room that features a
catwalk. The large home has over 24 rooms including a huge country kitchen, numerous parlors, sitting rooms and
libraries and the original tavern room.

great Aerial Views
http://drewhingson.com/flintHillGallery.html

Great comments of #100. Was Bates Tavern taken down and move?  If true, it is a shame.  The Bates tavern was a great building. I was inside.  What buildings are there now? The story is still untrue.  The family sold the farm land across the street many years ago. Thanks for the latest news.

http://books.google.com/books?id=rV...granby%20bates%20tavern&f=false

Buried treasures of New England: legends of hidden riches, forgotten war ... By W. C. Jameson

the story of the washington dollars starts on pg 146

Quit talking about the Cache and start detecting for it. I like the advice of Les. Things run downhill. Find a rut leading down to the brook and detect it good near that Tavern. It would have te be near a wagon trail, if it can still be located.

I agree with the great comments of #88, story not true. no gold coins minted by France at that time.

Thanks for the heads up Dan I can see you are a great researcher. I will forward your info on to the owners of these French GOLD coins and tell them they are fake.

Francs
The first franc was a gold coin struck in 1360 when King John was freed. It showed King John in armour on horseback, and was known as a franc à cheval. The word franc meaning free, but also referring to the Frankish people. Franc coins fell into disuse after 1642, until they were revived during the revolutionary period in 1795, when a decimal currency system was introduced. As far as we are aware this was the world's first decimal currency system, although the Americans had proposed it in 1781.


Obverse and reverse of 1786 French Gold Coin - Showing Louis Dor

I became a treasure hunter after being a coin collector.  No country back then, had that much coins, copper, silver, or gold.  I do not want people wasting their time and work, looking for treasures that are not there.

Did you ever think that maybe for some guys the looking is as much fun as the finding ? Sorry but you & your twin Danny are beginning to sound like a broken record. I am even beginning to wonder if you're both the same guy with 2 different usernames... As far as the theory that it's not possible because France didn't have that many coins what do you base that theory on ? What was the exchange rate for a French gold Franc at that time ? $10 ? $20 ? Is it possible that 2 million in French Francs is equal to 100,000 coins ? Are you expecting us to believe that France didn't have access to that many coins ? Maybe over the years the amount has been exagerated. Maybe it's only 10,000 coins. Still worth a huge amount of money with gold at $1200 an ounce these days. Dare to dream my friend.. How about posting some of the stuff you've found or some of the cool coins you have in your collection.. Or maybe the 2 of you could hook up and get away from the computer & go out and look for your own version of treasure, whether that's poking around in a coin shop, looking for a huge hoard, or just seeing what's buried around an old cellar hole. Here in NH the ground is thawing out & Spring is right around the corner. I imagine it's the same in CT. You know, something besides all the negative stuff... Just a thought. Have a good day.

Any new info about this subject?

Any new info about this subject?

For guys that know this story is untrue, you and your brother from another mother sure do seem very interested in other folk's research on the subject. Seems like you two are trying really hard to talk everybody else out of looking for it...

I read the story, but I admitt I did not read all the posts. I might be repeating but here is some basic theory. The location of the wagon is to throw off the persusers. the loot is further out. The location of the wagon is meant to put the loot outside the search radius. The loot is buried close to the river. Wood rots fast in damp ground and erosion carries the loot to the river. An important factor is that the loot was probably burried near a prominate feature so it could be recovered. That feature could be a tributary entering the river, a rock formation that stands out, a well marked boundry lind or a foard at the river etc. Keep your eyes open for depressions in these areas. Good Luck

Hey All,
 I know this is a very old topic but I do have some new info on this. Apparently this is a very true case of a robbery and a true hidden stash. I will try to find the book I was reading at my local Barns and Noble about the Salmon Brook Robbery done by I believe 3-5 brothers who all died over the years. As to there being a G Washington Gold Dollar? LOL, nope, I asked a dealer friend of mine and never heard of a $1 Washington gold. Anyhow the last gold coin found was in 1984 by a woman who changed her tire on the bridge that went right over Salmon brook during the spring time. As the story goes she went down a path on the side of the bridge to wash her hands from changing a tire and seen a shimmering object about 3 feet into the water, She went out to pick it up and it turned out to be a Gold coin. She then turned it into the police to see if anyone was to claim it and being that it was a coin from the early 1800's she was told about the old robbery story. No one claimed it and according to come source that I do not know and the author of the book is not willing to say, the police gave it back to her after the time period and nothing has been said or talked about since. My theory is that like in Old Deerfield Massachusetts where the Indians captured a cash box with approx 250,000 gold coins being transported for payroll to Vermont back in the day, this has never been recovered yet either but consider that the flood waters and time frame of  over 100 years from where a chest was buried. Back then most chests were made of wood with 1/8th iron straps but as with all wood being buried for a long time it tends to warp and split. The gold could not have gone down the brook that fare due in part to the weight and the location of the hoard should be within 25-50 yards of where this woman found the last one in 1984. The Author of  the book also said that several other of these same coins were found and reported since 1881 and to date of 84 the total is 7 Gold coins. It's just the mystery of what exact gold coin was it, the mention of a Washington dollar makes no sense and for the time period of this alledged robbery it very well may have been gold ingots from either the San Francisco/Northampton MA company or some other ingot producer. To m knowledge there are only 4 known examples of the mentioned ingots in the world today and funny how all 4 came right out of the state of Conn. Anyhow, I thought it was an interesting read and maybe will start a spark. I plan on hitting the area this week but I only have a Whites Prism5 so I will let anyone know if I find anything close to this story.