Test your skills on this one! Spent years trying to ID this.

All ~

                      I did a test on sizing a while back and came up with ...

"Typically" (of the numerous test I ran ) if you set your zoom option accordingly, it will show the item in question at actual size. For Example: Go to page # 1 of this thread where there is a 25-cent piece (quarter) shown for scale. At the 60% setting you should be able to hold a quarter against your desktop screen for an exact match.

              There may be exceptions to this, but I have not found one "yet."

This "Custom" zoom setting is pretty cool. You may have to change it around a bit, but it always works for me when there is a coin used for scale. Try it! You'll like it! (I hope).

SODABOB

Where do we find the "custom zoom setting"?

BigCy ~

At the extreme lower right corner of your screen you will see the standard 100%. Directly next to it is a down arrow. Click this. Then click "Custom" at bottom and a box will pop up for your preferences. Click/scroll or type in to select preferred size. It's easy and fun. But don't forget to return it back to 100% when you're done. You'll know what I mean the first time you forget and leave it at 400%. Good luck.

SBB

BigCy ~

At extreme lower right corner of your screen you will see the standard 100%. Directly next to it is a down arrow. Click this. Then click "Custom" at bottom and a box will pop up for your preferences. Click/scroll to select prefered size. It's easy and fun. But don't forget to return it back to 100% when you're done. You'll know what I mean the first time you forget and leave it at 400%. Good luck.

SBB

You know I never noticed that. Thanks Bob.

I had to go 55% for the reality size. Thats a cool quick zoom feature also.

BigCy ~

You're welcome. I'm glad I could help. I guess different desktops create different effects. The 55% "reality" size you mentioned may be 60% for others as it is for me. But irregardless, once you get the hang of it, it should be smooth sailing.

And while we're on the subject, this might be a good time to mention that when a coin is being used to assist in the scale of something, make sure the coin is laying (full round) flat so as to more easily compare it with a real one.

Thanks.

SBB  

Looks like a top of an old phone, the dialing ring in one like this.

Looks like a top of an old phone, the dialing ring in one like this.

Nope sorry too small. Also the numbers go to 15.

There are a few things I see that havent been mentioned and when I get a chance Ill take some pics.

looking forward to it 

I can't recall if something like this has been proposed already -

An old post office box dial door

I believe this is a surveyors counter for field work. The tool is made light weight and can be bent to attach to a belt. The process is this, as moving from point to point a count is made. Sometimes it is ones stride and other times it could be a measure of chains in that they drug a chain and counted chains to record distance. The fact it is aluminum wouldn't effect the compass.
This is a counter for surveyors.

Wow this thing is still going!!!! But its way cool tho! Hopefully someday someone will solve it!!!

I believe this is a surveyors counter for field work. The tool is made light weight and can be bent to attach to a belt. The process is this, as moving from point to point a count is made. Sometimes it is ones stride and other times it could be a measure of chains in that they drug a chain and counted chains to record distance. The fact it is aluminum wouldn't effect the compass.
This is a counter for surveyors.

I like the idea. It fits on a belt. It would match with where it was found. I googled "surveyors counter" but couldnt find anything. A pic would be cool. This is one of the better ideas. Where is CWHunter?

I was going to comment on the dial. Its very loose and will not stay on a number but upon closer examination, I see that something is missing underneath the rivet that could have made the dial much tighter. I see a round mark in the metal around the backside rivet. I am also posting some side views.

Don't believe anything is missing underneath.  That is a rivet...and over time and wear & tear, it will get loose.  It IS a interesting puzzle to say the least.

Don't believe anything is missing underneath.  That is a rivet...and over time and wear & tear, it will get loose.  It IS a interesting puzzle to say the least.

Yes the rivet has become loose over time.  It may be hard for you to see in the pic but I am studying it in person under magnification and something like a round washer has left a mark. I tried to point to it with the red arrow. Its mostly above the rivet, a curved scoring scratch or depression left in the metal from something turning. .

Something definitely left a mark. I guess its possible to have occured during the manufacturing process but at this point we cannot dismiss any clue. What do you think could have caused the mark?

Looking under magnification it also appears that the bent tab as SWR and others have mentioned has indeed either been broken or was cut with tin snips IMO. Ill try to take a magnified pic later.

Thoose are the two things I wanted to mention that may not be obvious from a picture..

1- the round scoring under/around the rivet. (pic 1)
2- the cut tab. (pic 2)

It makes it harder to ID with possible parts missing.

I've been Googling everything I can think of related to surveying equipment and accessories, but unfortuniately have not found anything yet that resembles your item.  But I did find this interesting site that shows some pretty good photos of a variety of surveying stuff. Plus the guy said he does identifications but not appraisals.

Go to the Directory first, and then from there scroll down to "Survrying Instrument and Equipment Catagories," which is highlighted in blue. Each catagory has it's own seperate collection of photos.  The one I show below is from the site, and is a 1800s chain similar to the one you posted earlier. Those brass do-dads attached to the chain are called "tallies," and are used for keeping track of distances. I hope this helps, and if nothing else, maybe shoot the guy a photo and see what he has to say. If it is in fact survey related, I'm sure he would know.

SODABOB

                                   http://www.antiquesurveying.com

Yes heres the pic of the chain. You are good at writing e-mails Bob. It would be great if you could do it.

For anyone willing to try, it looks like he is willing to help with an ID as long as it isnt being sold on eBay. He will not open attachments so it may be best to link to this thread.     http://www.antiquesurveying.com/my_mailing_and_shipping_address.htm

                                          Note of interest ...

          I just sent the antique surveyor guy an e-mail inquiry with photos.

                          I'll post his response if/when I receive one.

                                              SODABOB

                                         Note of interest ...

          I just sent the antique surveyor guy an e-mail inquiry with photos.

                          I'll post his response if/when I receive one.

                                              SODABOB

Great. . Maybe I should have asked sapphire miner if he was just guessing, but it sounds good to me.

I believe this is a surveyors counter for field work. The tool is made light weight and can be bent to attach to a belt. The process is this, as moving from point to point a count is made. Sometimes it is ones stride and other times it could be a measure of chains in that they drug a chain and counted chains to record distance. The fact it is aluminum wouldn't effect the compass.
This is a counter for surveyors.

I just cant get past the thought that it spins freely (until it hits the stop)and wont stay on the number. Even if the rivet was tighter, it would seem unreliable. Im thinking some parts are missing that would keep the wheel on the proper count number.   Whatever it counts Im convinced it counts one increment at a time..

BCH.....the mark your describing looks like a stress crack.

This is getting good!

BCH.....the mark your describing looks like a stress crack.

I studied up on stress cracks in aluminum alloys and I looked again under magnification and I would have to conclude that it is not a stress crack. I am thinking now that the circular mark was made during the manufacturing process but I am just guessing. Maybe if the rivet was tighter, it could be a reliable counter.

Good Morning ~

                  Here's the reply I received from the surveying expert ...

 I haven't researched it yet, but I did notice he used the words, "may be/may have."

   (Nor do I fully understand his meaning regarding the "chains pulled 16," etc.)

               P.S. But I'd rather not bug him again for an explaination.

                                                  

                                                   SBB

                                                  ~ * ~

          Bob

          I have not seen anything like it before. It may be an "out keeper"
          to keep track of the number of chains pulled 16, each chain = 66 feet.
          80 chains to the mile. It may have attached to a compass as it is
          non-magnetic and obviously went with something.

          RP

Thanks Bob. Unfortunately it looks like another dead end. This item only has 14 numbers IMO. The pointer never reaches the number 15, certainly not 16. I agree with him that it went to something and part of it is missing.

Sapphire miner tell us if you were just guessing. Should we pursue this any further?

I first got excited about the belt idea but I will have to conclude that what we have does not properly fit on a standard pants belt. The tabs underneath do not even look as if they were ever bent. Now maybe a much wider belt. Its also possible that a belt clip has broken off.

If it were to go on a belt, the finger advancement positioned on top would be OK but the numbers would be read sideways.

             Here's a link that briefly explains what an "out keeper" is/does ...

The specific reference to the out keeper is in paragraph 8 (starting the count under the Bruce Taylor) and is the paragraph that starts with > The faces of most American compasses ...

SBB  

http://www.eppraisals.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=appraisal.certificate&act=form&item_id=63618

                      Here's another link regarding an "Out Keeper."

          The only problem is, it's a full manual with about a jillion pages!

I couldn't find the reference, but if someone among us is a speed reader, have at it!

                                                    

                                                   SBB

     http://www.archive.org/stream/cu31924004585588/cu31924004585588_djvu.txt

                       Here's the text that led me to the last link ...

    I post it here on a new page because I don't want to risk losing it again.

             Please notice the mention of ... "Underground Surveying."  

   (I found it on page 9 after Googling the exact words ... "Surveying Out Keeper")

                                                 ~ * ~

Full text of "A manual of underground surveying"
They repre- sent best surveying practice, and fulfill the purpose as an object
..... The instrument had an out-keeper for tallying the outs of the chain, ...
http://www.archive.org/stream/cu31924004585588/cu31924004585588_djvu.txt - 450k -

The 2nd quote below refers to the brass "Tallies," or "Outs" shown on the image of the 1800s surveying chain. (The 1st quote is from the link I posted earlier). "Tallies" are those weird looking tags with the "teeth" on them. If you're confused, that's okay, because so am I. Maybe these tally tags are the counting things that Sapphire Miner was referring to.

Each "point/notch" on the tally indicates ten feet. For example, the one on the right would be the forty foot mark. But I sure would like to find a photo of one of those "Out Keeper" devices ... especially considering the fact it is referred to as a "Dial."

                                                   ~ * ~

"The face of most English compasses reads clockwise. Some compasses are equipped with an out keeper, a dial that helps a surveyor keep track of the number of times the chain has been run (these are known as outs). Some have a dial that converts outs to poles (a pole, also known as a rod or a perch, is equal to 5.5 yards)."


                                                   ~ * ~

"Tallies - The tallies are of brass, and have one, two, three or four notches, as they mark ten, twenty, thirty or forty links from either end. The fiftieth (50th) link is marked by a rounded tally to distinguish it from the others."

I just heard back from the surveying expert who has been extremely helpful in this endeavour. And although I have not mentioned to him yet about the TreasureNet connection, I did thank him a million times over for his help. His name is Robert and seems like a really cool guy.   However, this thing still isn't solved yet! Following are his exact words from his message, but I think he assumes I/we already know what we are looking for, as he said there are many of the "out keepers" show in the photos connected with the following link. But I have already looked at many of them, but couldn't find a single text reference to what he calls an "out keeper." But I'm sure there must be one shown somewhere. So this is open to anyone who wishes to participate, and we'll see who can be the first to find an actual photo of one of those so called "Out Keeper Dials." (And please post it if/when you do ... thanks & good luck!)      

               (After opening the link, see if any of you recognize the site? I do!)

                                             Robert's exact words ...

Bob

"Go to this link and look at the compasses. Many of them have out keepers. But I have never seen a seperate one that wasn't attached to a compass."

                                                  Link ...

         http://www.surveyhistory.org/compass%20maker%20directory.htm










            

Long list.

I'm guessing it's the little dial on the right shown in this photo of a A.S. Aloe Co. compass.

                (Be sure to click on the individual photos to enlarge them).

                                                

                                                 SBB

                                                      I also found this ...

                                     (Which is about how I feel at the moment).

                         But I'm not complaining ... I enjoy all of this research stuff.

Well...I know one thing. I sure could use one of them....for my golf game!!!! 

                             Here's an entire surveyor's kit by "Knox & Shain"

                It shows the chains and everything, including our little "dial buddy"

                                                Out Keeper

       You can imagine my excitement when this image jumped on the screen!

                 However, our eyes have a way of playing tricks on us.

I'm including the link so you can check this out for yourselves, but it's actually a surveyor's measuring tape, with a diameter of about sixteen inches ... I think  

                                      SO"IDON'TKNOW"BOB

     http://www.surveyhistory.org/paines_surveyor's_measure_&_tackle_case.htm

I am the bonehead who found this thing.  Wow, I am surprised to see this thing is still a hot topic!  I had to disconnect my internet for a while, so I haven't been able to keep tabs on it after Goodyguy bought it from me.  He has done a phenomenal job describing and researching it.  Now that Bigcypresshunter has it, I am confident that it will be solved.  The more involved, the better the chances.  Just one suggestion:  Early on, someone suggested Jay Leno.  I think that if it were sent to him, not only would it get national attention (not for glory, but to solve it once and for all, maybe), it would give treasurenet a free plug.

Glad to be back, MC

I am the bonehead who found this thing.  Wow, I am surprised to see this thing is still a hot topic!  I had to disconnect my internet for a while, so I haven't been able to keep tabs on it after Goodyguy bought it from me.  He has done a phenomenal job describing and researching it.  Now that Bigcypresshunter has it, I am confident that it will be solved.  The more involved, the better the chances.  Just one suggestion:  Early on, someone suggested Jay Leno.  I think that if it were sent to him, not only would it get national attention (not for glory, but to solve it once and for all, maybe), it would give treasurenet a free plug.

Glad to be back, MC

Good to see the ......... who started this, again
It is still interesting  
My offer remains as firm as ever
My initial pledge is in #147
Mike

Welcome Back Musclecar!

With BigCy helping we are sure to get this thing solved!  
If not then maybe you and I will do the talk show circuit......LOL
I always wanted to meet Leno.

GG~

 Now that Bigcypresshunter has it, I am confident that it will be solved.  

Thanks for the vote of confidence but I am not so sure. Im afraid something is broken off.

Has there been consensus around the general age of this item?

Has there been consensus around the general age of this item?

According to Musclecar It was found In 1996 on an old homestead (circa 1950's) in a treed area by the river, in Soldotna, Alaska.  It was about 2 inches deep.

Since it is made from aluminum and up until 1859 aluminum was more valuable than gold, I'm guessing it probably wasn't even manufactured until after 1915 or so when the price of aluminum came down to $40.00 a Kilo, due to a breakthrough in manufacturing.

GG~

I realize the Surveying topic is passe, but I wanted to clairfy the question mark that was hanging over the previous discussion regarding exactly what an "outkeeper" is. The text and photo below should answer this once and for all.

Also, it may be of interest to note that the term "out" refers to the number of times the chain was pulled "out" to it's maximum length. For example; If the surveying crew was using a standard fifty-foot chain, then each time it was stretched to it's max would count as one "out," or "fifty feet." Thus, the compass guy would turn the little outkeeper dial to the number 1. And when they were done, let's say the outkeeper dial was on the number 9. This would then calculate to ... 50 ft. X 9 = 450 ft.

And for anyone captivated by all this survey chat, here's a great link to assist you.

            http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/surveying/index.htm

Anyway, that's all I have to say on the survey aspect, and will now focus elsewhere.

Thanks,

SBB

                                                      ~ * ~

                                       (Text that came with photo)

The basic instrument is a standard, small compass, with a north-south level on the north arm, and an east-west level and an outkeeper on the south arm. The hand-engraved signature indicates that the compass was made before the middle of 1876. The telescope, which attaches to one of the sight vanes, was presumably made shortly before the patent application was submitted in June 1878.

I am making this post because I have just this morning invited several family members to join the "club" in helping to identify this unsolved mystery. Thus moving it to the top of the "What Is It?" list where they can more easily find it. A couple of my family members currently live in Alaska, which may or may not shed some new light on this topic. We'll see?

                       Thanks for your understanding and support.

                                        SODABOTTLEBOB

I realize that I should not belly up to this bar without a picture, but I will toss this in none the less.

Years ago an acquaintance of mine brought me an odd counting device with some similarities to this item, and I cannot find any of the scans of it.

If you can imagine this mechanism, counting dial out, sandwiched between two sheets of metal. This metal casing would be slightly larger than a modern business card. The dial end was thicker than the end you held. The thin end was embossed with the name and address of a local lumber wholesaler, which again brings up the business card thing.

Whatever they were counting, they were in groups of fifteen. Is this a common amount of Xs in a Y of lumber or cordwood???

I will try to find the pic. this was at least ten years ago...

Mr R

Ive done about all I could and I will be sending it back to its owner soon (Goodyguy) and maybe on to the Leno show!   But I took a couple pics. Ill crop them later. I tried to take a pic with my loupe to show where I believe it was cut with tin snips. I think we are missing something, possibly a belt clip.

This has been mentioned several times before and Bob reminded me that it may clip on a fence or be an incubation counter so I thought it deserved a second (or third lol) look. I was surprised that it clipped tight onto a wire fence quite well.  It should fit different size fence but it doesnt look as if the bottom tabs were ever bent up. I originally ruled out counter because it wouldnt stay on a number but with a tighter rivet and/or washer it might work. The rivet is indeed loose. I dont believe it goes on a belt and I think the survey idea has come to a dead end.

Here are pics of going from 5 to 6.

I think incubator counter is the best bet so far. Good pics BCH 

I thing you are definitely on the right track with a cage or fence mounted counter ........but what did it count 

None of the vets or farmer supply companies that I showed it to in person had an ID, but I still like the way it fits onto a fence. 

GG~

This was post from Nov. 2006 and was the reason for me visiting vets and farm supply companies.

I have seen something similiar mounted on either a fence ,or a rabbit cage I don,t exactly Remember,but could it be used to keep track of some interval like vaccinations or innoculation?

This is where I first considered the cage counter idea as a possibility.
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,58818.msg1505685.html#msg1505685

This is a partial list of places visited in person.
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,58818.msg1520335.html#msg1520335

GG~

Yes the rivet has become loose over time.  It may be hard for you to see in the pic but I am studying it in person under magnification and something like a round washer has left a mark. I tried to point to it with the red arrow. Its mostly above the rivet, a curved scoring scratch or depression left in the metal from something turning. .

Something definitely left a mark. I guess its possible to have occured during the manufacturing process but at this point we cannot dismiss any clue. What do you think could have caused the mark?

Now that you have conceded that something might have been attached to the backside, maybe you can revisit the thermostat idea. Like turning a cam/wheel.

This aluminum gimmick is more than likely meant to be a set it and leave it alone deal. Hanging from a belt or dredging it around surveying seems a little bit on the strenuous side.

I think incubator counter is the best bet so far. Good pics BCH 

Chicks hatch in 21 days .

I think incubator counter is the best bet so far. Good pics BCH 

Chicks hatch in 21 days .

Maybe a quarantine counter. Rabies 15 days incubation period.

to me if it doesn't have definite stops or clicks at each number. then it would be variable, like a thermostat or something else to be set not counted.
i see it attached to a wire or thin bar as on the fence idea. but also set at the bottom where the two flat pieces are spaced. it looks like they are fashioned or bent (see picture two and three from bigcy) to  accomplish this.
i have harped on the idea that a very thin coil of wire (spring like) could have been attached to the nib bent up at the number fifteen. to me the whole face was covered only exposing the number at the pointer and the pointer and of course the gear tooth to be advanced by finger tip. the spring/coil then could have been attached to a thin rod which could have attached to a rheostat (?) or something moving to a max amt. and back.. i believe this rod connecting to something telling the numbers where to be, or vice versa, could achieve this by rotating over the top of the face of the "what's it" and under the cover plate i imagine!!!!

it's not something i want to draw. but simply a measuring device connected to the "whats it" with a thin rod. excuse trying to explain something i have a hard time doing so.

dang it...i overcooked the potatoes for potato salad while writing my previous post.

Hi, I'm new to the board and a newbie to MD. Having a great time coin shooting here in Florida.    I would say it is not an adjuster of any type. Reason being when you rotate the wheel nothing changes but the number. Gauges, such as spark plug gauges or shim gauges have a variation in one part of the gauge. Its a counter of some sort. It could have been part of a larger machine. the tabs on the bottom look like they are  for alignment and the two straight "legs" look like they fit into slots in some other device.  

Hi, I'm new to the board and a newbie to MD. Having a great time coin shooting here in Florida.    I would say it is not an adjuster of any type. Reason being when you rotate the wheel nothing changes but the number. Gauges, such as spark plug gauges or shim gauges have a variation in one part of the gauge. Its a counter of some sort. It could have been part of a larger machine. the tabs on the bottom look like they are  for alignment and the two straight "legs" look like they fit into slots in some other device.  

First off...Welcome to TreasureNet.

Keep in mind that there are missing parts. If the gizmo was a counter, the numbers would more than likely lock in place, or a simple bump or brush against would mess up the count

Yes the rivet has become loose over time.  It may be hard for you to see in the pic but I am studying it in person under magnification and something like a round washer has left a mark. I tried to point to it with the red arrow. Its mostly above the rivet, a curved scoring scratch or depression left in the metal from something turning. .

Now that you have conceded that something might have been attached to the backside, maybe you can revisit the thermostat idea. Like turning a cam/wheel.

This aluminum gimmick is more than likely meant to be a set it and leave it alone deal. Hanging from a belt or dredging it around surveying seems a little bit on the strenuous side.

Its very small and light, so I dont know what you mean as strenuous but it doesnt fit well on a belt.  As far as it being a thermostat, I will know concede after inspecting it that its possible to attach to the electronics for a mini fridge. I dont think so, though, with the one increment at a time movement.

Keep in mind that there are missing parts. If the gizmo was a counter, the numbers would more than likely lock in place, or a simple bump or brush against would mess up the count

That was my argument all along against a counter. I wasnt going to mention it, but it appears to have a definite scoring mark on the backside of the sprocket wheel and can be observed through the triangle "window" on the backside. I cant figure out what could have left the mark on the backside of the wheel. Its possible to be a missing part locking it in place on each indent on the backside of the sprocket teeth. I dont know if this makes any sense, ill have to take a pic tommorrow..

to me if it doesn't have definite stops or clicks at each number. then it would be variable, like a thermostat or something else to be set not counted.
i see it attached to a wire or thin bar as on the fence idea. but also set at the bottom where the two flat pieces are spaced. it looks like they are fashioned or bent (see picture two and three from bigcy) to  accomplish this.
i have harped on the idea that a very thin coil of wire (spring like) could have been attached to the nib bent up at the number fifteen. to me the whole face was covered only exposing the number at the pointer and the pointer and of course the gear tooth to be advanced by finger tip. the spring/coil then could have been attached to a thin rod which could have attached to a rheostat (?) or something moving to a max amt. and back.. i believe this rod connecting to something telling the numbers where to be, or vice versa, could achieve this by rotating over the top of the face of the "what's it" and under the cover plate i imagine!!!!

it's not something i want to draw. but simply a measuring device connected to the "whats it" with a thin rod. excuse trying to explain something i have a hard time doing so.

Hello intimer. I know what you are trying to say but I dont think anything connected to the tiny bent up tab. I think its just a stop. Nothing has left a mark on the tab or face of the sprocket wheel..

 Chicks hatch in 21 days .

I guess its not an incubator, my bad. I couldnt remember but there were some suggestions related to agriculture. Maybe a daily dosage counter or rabbit breeder.

OLD POST LEFT BY IVAN: please look at rabbit (doe) breeding gestion times === once bred  by day 14 she should show signs of being preg -- by day 16 --she should start packing up nesting box material -- its a 15 day counter from mounting on a heavy duty type  2 inch type heavy duty wire spaced cage --- if showing no signs of being preg  by day 15 / 16 --- you  rebreed her.

bunnies are cheap meat .

                                        A few more "IDeas?" ...

1. One of these days I'm going to make a list of every guess/suggestion ever posted.
       (But in the meantime I have to rely on my memory - which ain't that good)
         (So I apologize in advance if the following have already been discussed)

2. My Alaskan brother (who just found about this item) came up with ...

       Tennis or Volleyball "Score Keeper?" (Both games use 15 points)

And, "no," he is not suggesting it attached to the webbing on a tennis racket .. or did it?

3. I personally like the "It attaches to wire mesh" idea, and would like to add that
    part of the incubation process involves "Not Turning" eggs after a certain period.

(I have to admit, this whole incubation thing has me scratching my head - and even though it has a certain amount of merit worth researching, which I may be partly responsible for - I just have to wonder if it's really worth the time?  But, you know how I can be, so here I go again on what I hope isn't another wild-chicken chase). LoL

                                                  

                                                

                                              SODABOB

                                    

I personally like the "It attaches to wire mesh" idea, and would like to add that
 part of the incubation process involves "Not Turning" eggs after a certain period.

Maybe thats it.

So where might one find a 1940s or 50s catalog that sells incubation counters? This has the markings of something mass produced -- if it is an incubation counter, I can see it or a simlar model being advertised. I wish I saved my father's GRIT magazines.     

Dear True Grit ~

I like your suggestion about where to find old, printed advertising articles, and have actually looked into this. The truth is -- there are lots of places! Bummer is, most if not all of them charge a fee to view/copy from their "massive" inventories. This is especially true with the old newspaper websites ... lots of everyday old newspapers all the way back to ... ?  A long ways!  But they charge pretty hefty fees to examine the goods!

So if anybody knows of a free site with images of old newspabers, magazines, etc., please post a link to it for those of us who would like to check it out.

Thanks a mil'

   SBB

Dear True Grit ~

I like your suggestion about where to find old, printed advertising articles, and have actually looked into this. The truth is -- there are lots of them! Bummer is, most if not all of them charge a fee to view/copy from their "massive" inventories. This is especially true with the old newspaper websites ... lots of everyday old newspapers all the way back to ... ?  A long ways!  But they charge pretty hefty fees to examine the goods!

So if anybody knows of a free site with images of old newspabers, magazines, etc., please post a link to it for those of us who would like to check it out.

Thanks a mil'

   SBB

I get the feeling Big Cy has quite the collection of old sales catalogs. It's either him or the Library of Congress.

                       I'm not sure if this will help, but it can't hurt!

My brother pointed out to me that there has to be a specific reason why the numbers are intended to be read "sideways." Surely if it were intended to be read with the prongs/tabs on the bottom and top, the manufacturer would have positioned the numbers accordingly. But they didn't! For some reason (as yet unknown) the numbers are sideways as in BigCy's photo below. Of course, the questions still remain ... "Why?" and "For Counting What?" I can't answer these right at the moment, but ...

        "I believe this is a strong, bonified clue worth serious consideration!"

              You just never know where the next clue will pop up next.

                                                    

                                                    SBB

                        

                                                

 

Yes I also believe it was meant to read sideways (reply #1002) and it was meant to be turned by a finger, one increment at a time.

                          One picture is worth a thousand words!

Rather than trying to explain where I'm going with this sideways counting IDea, I have attached the photo of a vintage card game (cribbage) score keeper. (Probably not the best example, but the only one I could currently find). Maybe, just maybe the item was partially enclosed inside of something as shown here, which may in part explain the possible missing part(s). Or ... perhaps it was attached to a box or similar container with only a portion of the finger dial and the numbers being exposed. No doubt this has already been discussed, (remember my poor memory?), but possibly still worthy of re-researching ...  

                                                     RE-BOB  

                         One picture is worth a thousand words!

Rather than trying to explain where I'm going with this sideways counting IDea, I have attached the photo of a vintage card game (cribbage) score keeper. Maybe, just maybe the item was partially enclosed inside of something as shown here, which may in part explain the possible missing part(s). Or ... perhaps it was attached to a box or similar container with only a portion of the finger dial and the numbers being exposed. No doubt this has already been discussed, (remember my poor memory), but possibly still worthy of re-researching ...  

                                                     RE-BOB  

I dont know if its been mentioned, but a card game scorekeeper is a possibility because using it inside, where it wont be moved much, it could stay on the number.

As far as it being enclosed, I wonder why it has a pointer? Dont forget the stop tab sticking up would scrape, so maybe it was open? Im thinking the only pieces missing are on the backside. I found it odd that there are no marks to show how it was mounted. The tiny holes in each corner show no screw marks.

Someone mentioned a pool ball counter. The diameter at the tip of a pool stick is most commonly 12.75 - 14 millimeters (half an inch or a little more). 
The sprocket teeth openings are smaller than 1/2" so a pool stick tip would not fit.

                                                 HELP!

              I'm off on another wild-goose chase and need some help!

I found the following text on one of those "Patient Sites" which describes what they call a "wrist dial" worn by tennis players years ago. But I can't find an image of one and was hoping someone could help so as to put me out of my misery.   

                                       Thanks in advance ...

                                                SBB

                                               ~ * ~

Prior to better inventions, a number of dial-type tennis score keepers have been used. For the most part these dial type tennis score keeping devices are adapted to be worn on the player's wrist. These dial-type score keepers are alike in the number of significant disadvantages and drawbacks they share.

                                                 

OK Bob. Although this has been mentioned before, I dont think it was actually ever tried, so I cut out a crude cardboard box in an attempt to duplicate a casing.

The finger actuated part worked fine but I cant see the purpose of the pointer in this scenario. Here it is on number 12 and 14.


It seems a problem arises when I try to turn to number 15.  The pointer, tab stop, and half of number 15 all appear in the window. It just doesnt look right.


I also couldnt see the purpose of the tabs.   I bent the cardboard every which way trying to attach it. Maybe the tabs are so it could be attached inside and removed for repair and/or replacement  but the real problem here was trying to reset back to zero, one number at a time just didnt seem right either.


All in all, I could see this attached to a belt. The belt clip would be where the part has broken off. To read it you would remove it from the belt and hold it sideways. Or if its a 15 count, it would stop and no need to look down and read it.

BigCy ~

                                                  Good job!

                             I like the (1 pic vs 1000 word) approach.

               And I agree with you that it doesn't make sense to be enclosed.

                 "Exterior Mounted" is the road I'm heading down next!

                                                      
                                                      SBB

My apologies if this has been answered, but in what sort of area was this found (residential? industrial? a field in the middle of nowhere?). Also, what kind of items were dug nearby? Was it a junky location? Finally, were there any utilities in the area such a power station, water treatment, etc? Thanks.

My apologies if this has been answered, but in what sort of area was this found (residential? industrial? a field in the middle of nowhere?). Also, what kind of items were dug nearby? Was it a junky location? Finally, were there any utilities in the area such a power station, water treatment, etc? Thanks.

Musclecar was the finder. If he sees this maybe he can help. It was sold on eBay. Goodyguy bought it later sending it to me. All I remember is an abandoned 50's homestead in an area with trees by a river in Alaska 2" deep.

                        This is a quote from GoodGuy's post # 1046

              ( I guess I'm not the only one with a poor memory! LOL )

"According to Musclecar It was found In 1996 on an old homestead (circa 1950's) in a treed area by the river, in Soldotna, Alaska.  It was about 2 inches deep."

SBB

Dear True Grit ~

I like your suggestion about where to find old, printed advertising articles, and have actually looked into this. The truth is -- there are lots of places! Bummer is, most if not all of them charge a fee to view/copy from their "massive" inventories. This is especially true with the old newspaper websites ... lots of everyday old newspapers all the way back to ... ?  A long ways!  But they charge pretty hefty fees to examine the goods!

So if anybody knows of a free site with images of old newspabers, magazines, etc., please post a link to it for those of us who would like to check it out.

Thanks a mil'

   SBB

  I dug out my only poultry catalog , It has a lot of interesting thermostatically controlled equipment . No counters .
I wonder if the 1-15 on the mystery item could stand for  Weeks

If its a control thermostat, we will probably never find what it came from.

Okay ... So here I go again out on another limb. (Actually, I'm on three limbs at once).

But this time it comes from my dad who will soon be 88 years old, and grew up on a combination chicken/turkey ranch. (Although, he still calls it the "farm.") Anyway, it was a fairly small farm and they didn't have all the modern advances that the larger commercial farms had. But he does recall that part of his daily chores involved keeping track of how many eggs individual chickens laid. And when a particular chicken began decreasing their expected output, well ... that chicken became dinner.

But in dad's case, he had to keep track of all this on index cards. Plus each and every chicken was banded with an individual number. I'm still not clear as to how all of this was accomplished with there being so many chickens, but dad said it was extremely important to keep track of production.

So "maybe" the item is some kind of egg counter ... and it's even possible the item was fastened sideways with the two bendable tabs to secure it, and the other "flat" tabs were designed to slip an index card underneath so as to make notes.

                  I know this is far fetched ... but hey, like father like son!

                                 Signed ... "The Chicken Pluckers!"

                                            

Believe me, definitely Not an aircraft part. My guess is attached to a piece of cloth or leather and hung around the neck of some young lady and used to count dances used or owed (USO) in the 40s..

Okay ... So here I go again out on another limb. (Actually, I'm on three limbs at once).

But this time it comes from my dad who will soon be 88 years old, and grew up on a combination chicken/turkey ranch. (Although, he still calls it the "farm.") Anyway, it was a fairly small farm and they didn't have all the modern advances that the larger commercial farms had. But he does recall that part of his daily chores involved keeping track of how many eggs individual chickens laid. And when a particular chicken began decreasing their expected output, well ... that chicken became dinner.

But in dad's case, he had to keep track of all this on index cards. Plus each and every chicken was banded with an individual number. I'm still not clear as to how all of this was accomplished with there being so many chickens, but dad said it was extremely important to keep track of production.

So "maybe" the item is some kind of egg counter ... and it's even possible the item was fastened sideways with the two bendable tabs to secure it, and the other "flat" tabs were designed to slip an index card underneath so as to make notes.

                  I know this is far fetched ... but hey, like father like son!

                                 Signed ... "The Chicken Pluckers!"

                                            

  Hey Bob , sounds like you could of used one of these  Removes 8.000 feathers in 15 seconds !

mojjax ~

Thanks a lot ... but you failed to mention how many feathers the average chicken has. So I will be expecting you to research this soon. LoL   Maybe the item is a feather counter, and GoodGuy will loan it to you for this feather counting task. ?  

Bob

I had the day off today and spent so much time on the computer researching this darn thing, I didn't think anyone would mind my posting the following link. It pretty much tells you everything you could possibly want to know about the number 15 ...

I'm blurry eyed and haven't looked at all of it yet, but thought someone else might benifit and find something of interest. And in closing, how is it possible to Google something like ... "Aluminum Device With 15 Numbered Dial" and get 36,000 results, but still not find a single clue?  (Not necessary to respond ... I already know the answer).

BOGGLEDBOB

                    http://www.answers.com/topic/15-number#In_other_fields



             

Bob, great to see the huge effort you are putting in to help solve this mystery, but a couple of points;
I had commented very early in the piece that I believe the device counts only to 14 - not 15. I am pleased to note BCH is also agreeing on this factor.
Also, forget it being a tennis scoring device, tennis is scored 15 then 30 then 40.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennis_score

In one of my earlier posts (#164) I suggested, the following, after someone else mentioned a measurement device for seeds or grain.
I wouldn't mind betting there's a connection to a bushel = 56 pounds of Alaskan corn at 15.5% moisture content - according to a mixture of searches I did today. 56 quartered = 14 which is all the wheel counts up to - the 15 is The Stop

Keep up the good work

Cheers, Mike

Late night,  can't sleep...

Isn't it possible that the circular cut in this picture was
made by the rivet punch that was used to fold or finish
the rivet?

Isn't it possible that if the dial was loose and wouldn't
stay on the set number that all you would have to do
was gently press on the V tab, slightly bend it inward,
to make the dial less loose or not accidentally moved?


I still think this is a simple finger operated cage counter
for whatever purpose, wasn't attached to anything other
then cage wire, no parts missing.
Looks like it was most likely mass produced as some sort
of press dies would be necessary to press form  the
components.  Looks like someone was snoozing the day
they made this one,  V tab punch was miss aligned
and piece was upside down looks like to me,  see pic below.

Why so many people searching cannot find
a similar item is the real mystery to me!

Why so many people searching cannot find a similar item is the real mystery to me!

because the item is a broken off piece of something that is no longer made and quite possibly foreign

Hi, I'm new to the board and a newbie to MD. Having a great time coin shooting here in Florida.    I would say it is not an adjuster of any type. Reason being when you rotate the wheel nothing changes but the number. Gauges, such as spark plug gauges or shim gauges have a variation in one part of the gauge. Its a counter of some sort. It could have been part of a larger machine. the tabs on the bottom look like they are  for alignment and the two straight "legs" look like they fit into slots in some other device.  

First off...Welcome to TreasureNet.

Keep in mind that there are missing parts. If the gizmo was a counter, the numbers would more than likely lock in place, or a simple bump or brush against would mess up the count

Other then chickens I would be worried about releasing any animal (based above miscount scenario) if incubation count is days of potential rabies.

The counter could be a simple manual fish catch counter. Device would fit most tackle boxes 

Late night,  can't sleep...

Isn't it possible that the circular cut in this picture was
made by the rivet punch that was used to fold or finish
the rivet?
 
Isn't it possible that if the dial was loose and wouldn't
stay on the set number that all you would have to do
was gently press on the V tab, slightly bend it inward,
to make the dial less loose or not accidentally moved?
 

I still think this is a simple finger operated cage counter
for whatever purpose, wasn't attached to anything other
then cage wire, no parts missing.
Looks like it was most likely mass produced as some sort
of press dies would be necessary to press form  the
components.  Looks like someone was snoozing the day
they made this one,  V tab punch was miss aligned
and piece was upside down looks like to me,  see pic below.
 
Why so many people searching cannot find
a similar item is the real mystery to me!

Prongorn these are some of the best observations I have heard yet. I agree and said before that the circular mark could have been made during the manufacturing process. I realize now that its most likely the rivet set.  As a matter of fact, Im sure of it.

I noticed the misaligned V tab punch but didnt realize what it was until now. Thanks for the help. Its punched on the wrong side.

Myself, if it was mine, I would like to tighten the rivet and try it but I am not the owner, so we can only surmise. Yes, a slight push on the V tab may help hold it on the number.

I will have to conclude, that with these new observations, that this is a cheap mass produced metal hand COUNTER that most likely attaches to a fence.   I dont know why the bottom tabs were never bent. Maybe because it attaches so well using the top clips. I think the broken/cut part was just a simple clip for a different mounting option and may have held the manufacturers numbers..  Its actually an ingenius little item that may be patented.   Thanks Pronghorn for your assistance.

I'm going down the path of history here but FWIW I found a Fairbanks newspaper article from 1958 that listed the attendees to a poultry raisers conference.  The only name listed for Soldotna was Francis E. Mullen. 

I searched a little for him.  His land did run by the Kenai River.  I found these interesting photos in the Alaska Archives:

http://vilda.alaska.edu/

           Bramblefind ~ BigCy ~ trikikiwi ~ pronghorn ~ SWR ~ IronSpike

Thanks to your recent comments, as well as those from others along the way, I have entered a mindset, (speaking only for myself), that I may have been searching much too far outside of the box. Consequently, I am going back to square-box one! By this I am referring to the only "real" evidence I feel I currently have at my disposal, which is to try and focus for a moment on "where it was found," more so than "what it is." And this takes me to Soldotna, Alaska in the 1950s. Soldotna is about 60 miles south of Anchorage on the peninsula along the Kenai river. Soldotna currently has a population of about 4000, although this was significantly less in the 1950s. The area is famous for it's Salmon fishing along the Kenai river.

So with this said, I am going to transfer myself back in time and try to imagine what it was like to be a homesteader in that remote area at that time. And then focus ever ounce of "Occham's Razor" mentality I can muster on what the practical use of the item could have been. (And let me be the first to point out the likely possibility the item may have been taken there by accident, and was in a box of other junk, and that the "homesteader" didn't even know he had it). But I will assume for the moment that he did know he had it, and that it served some practical purpose. Which immediately rules out things like "egg counter" that I myself recently supported. (Although I do still feel it attaches best to mesh wire, or possibly tin sheeting or some similar material like that used in the making of a 1950s tackel box). < There's that box word again.  

                         Now I'm thinking more along the lines of ...
                                
                                            Dare I say ...

               "Rainfall total dial" that went with a tube-type rain gauge?

Anyway, I think you get the idea where I'm going with this, and will let you know what I find, if anything, as soon as I get back from America's last frontier.

                                                
                                        SOLDOTNABOB            

Looks like we had similar thoughts Bob    I just found this blog which has some accounts of the area -

http://redoubtreporter.wordpress.com/

i.e. when I searched: Mullen Soldotna

http://redoubtreporter.wordpress.com/2009/05/20/ridgeway-unincorporated-%E2%80%94-no-man%E2%80%99s-land-between-kenai-soldotna-houses-many-who-opposed-incorporation/

Soldotna itself was a loosely affiliated collection of homesteads, some subdivided and others still intact, when Alaska became a state in 1959 and the push for incorporation began. According to Hershberger, Frank Mullen was a “prime mover” in the effort, which set out to accomplish three main objectives: provide the community with more orderly growth; establish a means of taxation to pay for firefighters, police officers and other city services; and solve the area’s animal-control problem.

According to Hershberger, Soldotna was overrun by dogs, and several community members had taken it upon themselves to reduce the problem with firearms. Mary France, who lived with her husband, Dan, in Soldotna until about 1960, said people from elsewhere were using Soldotna as a sort of doggie dumping ground.

“There were lots of dogs,” France said. “There were many, many, many — and then some more manys — that just showed up in Soldotna. I don’t know why. There was a lot of dogs in Kenai, and I think a lot of people just figured, well, there weren’t as many dogs in Soldotna, so … .

“It just seemed like that’s what happened. (Dogs) would show up on somebody’s door. They’d drop them there by the bowling alley, and just all over. They’d just drive out, drop them out of the car, and be gone.”

http://redoubtreporter.wordpress.com/2009/01/14/not-so-fast-food-%E2%80%94-moose-meat-was-important-but-often-off-limits-to-early-homesteaders/

Illegal moose meat was a main source of food for us,” said Maxine Lee, Soldotna’s first postmaster, in a personal history written in 2003. “We were all law-abiding citizens, but in 1948, to get a hunting license, you had to have been a resident of Alaska for a year or else buy a $50 non-resident license and hire a guide at $50 a day — even on your own land.

“We had little money. We needed meat. The U.S. Fish & Wildlife controlled hunting — the Feds. They knew that we were eating moose, but they also knew we needed food. We were circumspect, hiding the meat tied up in spruce trees.”

Lee also said that many folks in those days believed they would receive lighter punishment for killing another human being than they would for killing a moose. Still, she said, the authorities were occasionally known to look the other way, particularly if it was understood that a homesteader’s survival might depend upon the infraction.

I have to say its been an interesting read & I,ve followed it since I,ve joined recentlly , Which I have made very few posts .

  I,ve held back posting what I thought it might be from the get go because I,m new here & I have no pics to post or references that shows anything close . But I have seen something very similiar years ago around the late 50,s earlly 60,s .

  What I remember it belonging to was cheap Ho Scale toy race track & was a 15 lap counter as Most oval races back then were 15 laps . It clipped into an extension of the plastic race track & if memory serves It was in the section where the controller hooked up & it was a track switching section where the 2 cars switched lanes . I cant remeber but it seems like the little cars had a plastic piece on the side of it & when they passed it would move it one notch . When it got to 15 you set it back to the start before the next race .

 I Might be wrong as well But not as far off as some others ideas .   . My brother & I received it for a present when we were kids & it just really looks familiar . As far as where it was found . My brother moved to alaska quite a few years back so I dont think it would be that far fetched as how it could have gotton there .

I Hope I didn,t confuse things even more . I just wanted to mention the posability . Thanks its been interesting   .Bob

  

                          Bramblefind ~ cowboy357 > (Welcome aboard).

       Wow! You guys just knocked me off my dog sled! Thanks, that was great!

                    Here's something that Mr. Occham found for me ...

                                                  

                                             BOBSLEDBOB

Here's a good article on life in Soldotna-

http://www.peninsulaclarion.com/stories/072708/peo_267201991.shtml

Sunday, July 27, 2008

Story last updated at 7/27/2008 - 2:45 pm
Looking back: Progress Days celebration is a good time to remember Soldotna's past
By Story By Erin Cooper | Peninsula Clarion

As the years have passed and Soldotna has progressed, it has gone through many changes, from fueling up for 27 cents a gallon to now paying nearly $5 a gallon, but what has not changed is a sense of community and steady progress toward a better future.

In 1947, townships west of the Kenai National Wildlife border were opened to homesteading as people migrated to Alaska looking for the opportunity the land promised and the community other homesteaders offered.

World War II had ended and veterans seeking land and fitting certain requirements were given preference. Having to be at least 19 years old, a U.S. citizen, the head of a family, build a habitable dwelling and live on their land for 7 months of one year, they were given patents. During the same time, non-veterans could also homestead the area but generally took up smaller parcels of land.

In a short time, land surrounding the highway was swept up. Homes were built, crops planted and people began to build a community that has grown, progressed and is celebrated during the 48th Annual Progress Days festivities.

Soldotna was selected as a sight for the Sterling Highway bridge, dedicated in 1951, to span the Kenai River, opening up the area to more homesteading and allowing homesteaders who had crossed the river on the ice or by boat greater access.

As the community grew, businesses opened and the economy started building on itself. Some homesteaders sold eggs, meat and dairy from farms, others owned businesses in town.

When Alan Ulen moved to the area, construction on the bowling alley was under way until construction workers went on strike that summer. His home was five miles south of Soldotna and he was "fortunate to find the place" after so much land was already taken up, he said. Arriving in 1959 in his "little old trailer" with his family, looking for work was hard during the strike until he found it in the oil field in 1960.

"It looked pretty bleak for making a living," said Ulen.

Some opportunities required leaving his wife and children for long periods of time, limiting his options.

Families stayed together by hiking in the snow, going sledding in the driveway, playing board games and working together to keep the homestead running. Women kept busy as homemakers.

Marge Mullen and her husband flew to Anchorage and backpacked south to the Kenai, where they set foot on the land they wanted as early arrivals amongst the homesteaders. Arriving around the big burn of 1947, Mullen swam in the surrounding lakes during the summer to keep cool. She found friends in neighboring homemakers who gathered once a month.

"For a real thrill for the ladies," said Mullen.

Cabins were miles apart but families met to collect water, to talk about jobs and local happenings. The well at Wilson's Store had the modern convenience of a hand pump and provided a place for the community to get water and meet with each other regularly.

"They thought putting women in the hole would make it narrower," Mullen said about hand-digging the family's 25-foot well herself.

She also was responsible for keeping the home fire burning, baking bread, making home brew and providing her family with three meals a day. She kept her kids close together and spent time with her family. With no electricity, she kept the lamps oiled before dark. Each family member had a role in keeping the homestead running.

"My kids had chores you couldn't imagine," she said.

Homesteaders wrote letters and hoped to receive one in return when visiting the post office. The Ulens received care packages from family in different states. Between receiving items or word from other places though, the homesteaders of the area depended on each other and their families to get along.

"People in the community played a lot of pinochle," said Ulen.

His family visited with the other homesteaders on Tote Road and "visited, played cards, and tried to stay warm."

They shared Thanksgiving with an older couple who lived nearby, and brought them to get their mail and water. The Ulens found community in the neighboring homesteaders. Dirt trails leading to other homes were cleared and cabins were built with the each other's help.

Arriving in 1948, Martha (Lancashire) Merry spent time with her family working together and swimming during the summer.

"Every afternoon we would go down to Soldotna Creek and swim and haul water while Dad would fish," said Merry.

During winter the children went to school, came home, did chores and went to bed. There was nothing else to do, although her dad did read to the family. As roads were paved, stores became more prominent and people swarmed the area, the way of life slowly changed.

"Living is a lot easier now," said Merry.

She said living as a homesteader developed character.

"People have to work harder now to develop character," said Merry.

     I thought I would highlight paragraph no.7 from Bramblefind's last post ...

               Hmmm ... maybe the chicken did cross the road after all.

                                                  

                                                  SBB

As the community grew, businesses opened and the economy started building on itself. Some homesteaders sold eggs, meat and dairy from farms, others owned businesses in town.

cowboy357 ~

                                  Regarding your post #1098 ...

Please understand I am in no way trying to discredit your "Slot Car Lap Counter" idea. Actually, I think it's a great suggestion. And because of it I have spent a considerable amount of time searching for an image of one. Which, to my surprise, was no easy task. Below are the only photos I could find of what are described as "Vintage Slot Car Lap Timers/Counters."  I'm also providing a link for anyone who wishes to investigate this further. I'm sure the lap counter "dial" you remember is something different that what is shown here. But I thought I would share them anyway just to show you I'm currently on the same "track" as you, except that I have been temporarily derailed. I would like nothing better than to solve this mystery, and still hold out hope you have nailed it.  

                Be sure to click on the "boxed sets" for the coolest graphics.

SODABOB

                       http://www.gasolinealleyantiques.com/kits/slots.htm



                      



                  



                









  

cowboy 357 ~

I will conclude my slot car search with the attached photo of what is described as a "Circa 1962 1:32 Scale Eldon set #9805." However, on this one you will not only have to stretch your imagination, but also your eyeballs. What I would like you to focus on is the phamplet in the back of the box. You will see what (based on my research in this area) certainly appears to be "dual lap counter dials". You may have to zoom in on it ... but even then it's somewhat questionable. Anyway, I'm trying, but unfortunately have hit another dead end "track."

SLOTCARBOB