Test your skills on this one! Spent years trying to ID this.

                                            Coffee Time!

      It should be so easy ... all we have to do is fill in three simple "blanks!"

 ____?____ is an indicator device for counting and/or keeping track of ____?____.

The item is made of aluminum, measures appx. 2" square, has a manually operated dial/wheel with the numbers 1 through 15 on it, and easily attaches to ____?____.

   (Note - the use of "counting and/or keeping track of" are purely conjecture on my part).

                                    PROBABLYWRONGBOB

Here's one that says it is a tallying device - "to maintain an accurate tally and record of the productivity of hens ...." and it attaches to a cage -


http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=udhPAAAAEBAJ

Here's one that says it is a tallying device - "to maintain an accurate tally and record of the productivity of hens ...." and it attaches to a cage -

That looks very close.    An egg counter. We have had some great ideas here in the past 2 weeks. I saw your name and I knew you would come up with something. This is very close. Patent 1950, fits on a cage.

Here's one that says it is a tallying device - "to maintain an accurate tally and record of the productivity of hens ...." and it attaches to a cage -

That looks very close.    What does it count, eggs laid?

Very close, well done Bramblefind 

Bramblefind ~

                                                       Congratulations!

                        This is the first one I'm actually excited enough about to print out!

                                                    Here's your Gold Star!

                                                         JEALOUSBOB

I notice this has a double disc up to 20 count but I think 15 count is sufficient.

The patent has 10 claims. What is a claim?

I think she is very close to a green check but look at the bottom right hand corner under references and it will give a few related patents worth searching. Also claims may be worth a search.


 

Here is a patented amusement device 1,960,363 that I came up with from this reference list but I didnt check them all. http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=AnVAAAAAEBAJ&dq=1960363


And a camera counter. The only similarity I see is the back tabs. http://www.google.com/patents?id=O_...ource=gbs_selected_pages&cad=2#

Thanks    but I agree not a green check.  I was reading through the patent description and it does sound very close to a description of the thing. 

Hopefully this is a solid lead that will result in a more definite picture.

(b/c I am more than ready to put this puppy to bed!)

                                              NEW TITLE !!!

                     "SCRAMBLING TO SEARCH FOR SCRAMBLED EGGS"

               Many patients are copy-cats / improvements of other patents.

                                                    

                                            EGGHEADBOB

Thanks    but I agree not a green check.  I was reading through the patent description and it does sound very close to a description of the thing.  

Hopefully this is a solid lead that will result in a more definite picture.

(b/c I am more than ready to put this puppy to bed!)

A patent is for an idea and therefore the picture doesnt always match.  Yes I think its one of the best leads yet..   I hope it not just an amusement device lol.

                                             NEW TITLE !!!

                     "SCRAMBLING TO SEARCH FOR SCRAMBLED EGGS"

               Many patients are copy-cats / improvements of other patients.

                                                    

                                            EGGHEADBOB

I dont see any egg on your face BOB. Keep up the good work.
 

               I have to take off, but I didn't want to leave without first saying ...

                         It appears that one of our "Missing Words" is ...

                                           TALLY / TALLYING

                         Thanks again Bramblefind ... you're the man!

SBB

Here's one that says it is a tallying device - "to maintain an accurate tally and record of the productivity of hens ...." and it attaches to a cage -


http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=udhPAAAAEBAJ

I think you may be onto something !!!




GG~

                                               I'm Back!

                                           Check this out!

                Huge numbers - but real link. Don't worry, it won't bite!

             http://patimg2.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid...dkey=NONE&Input=View+first+page

Bob

link doesnt work

How many eggs does a productive hen lay in a day? ...in a week?

If a hen lays one egg a day, I guess this would be a 2 week counter.

BigCy ~

   You may recall my mentioning that my dad grew up on a chicken farm in the 1920s/30s.

He said the average chicken lays "One" egg a day. With "ocassional/rare" exceptions of two.

Bob

P.S. He said the typical "culling" factor was usually based on monthly/yearly producton.

BigCy ~

I just tested it three times (one left click) and it came up as clear as a bell each time.

   If anyone else is having a problem, please let me know. But it works fine for me.

Bob

The link is fine, it's just that some people don't have the required reader for the page contents to display.

Visit this page for the plugin you'll need:

http://www.uspto.gov/patft/help/images.htm

Bobs link.  Try this. Click view images for pic.        
     http://www.freepatentsonline.com/1430262.html

Heres the image.  
  
   http://www.freepatentsonline.com/1430262.pdf

Bobs link.  Try this. Click view images for pic.       
     http://www.freepatentsonline.com/1430262.html

Heres the image. 
   
   http://www.freepatentsonline.com/1430262.pdf

there are numbers 1-15!!

                                  Whew! I'm glad that's cleared up!

                                            Sorry 'bout that.

My Alaskan brother has been coaching me on this patent stuff via e-mail. Although I'm the one who found the pool playing thing and not him. Anyway, he wanted me to pass on to everyone who's interested that the patent numbers 2,000,000 thru 3,000,000 cover most of the patents in the 1940s and 50s. And you can go from there in any direction. He's currently working on a program that will group together every "Tally" - "Counting" type of device ever invented.

Bob

    P.S. I honestly don't think this is the item - but I couldn't pass up the 0 thru 15.

Bobs link.  Try this. Click view images for pic.       
     http://www.freepatentsonline.com/1430262.html

Heres the image. 
   
   http://www.freepatentsonline.com/1430262.pdf

there are numbers 1-15!!

The wheel goes to 15 but few similarities beyond that. Also, the pull string makes me think this item is larger.

   My brother found another chicken/egg thing, and I promised to post it for him.

   He and I both agree it's just another "wanna-be," but wanted to share it anyway.

The only problem is, I can't get a descent link to stick. But the U.S. Patent number is ...

                                                1885072

Bob and Mike

  My brother found another chicken/egg thing, and I promised to post it for him.

   He and I both agree it's just another "wanna-be," but wanted to share it anyway.

The only problem is, I can't get a descent link to stick. But the U.S. Patent number is ...

                                                1885072

Bob and Mike

Wow this one attached to the hen.   http://www.google.com/patents?id=WS...A1&dq=patent:1885072&source
=gbs_selected_pages&cad=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Thanks BigCy ~

                       For some reason I have a problem with PDF stuff.

But the main reason for this post is to see if anyone has discovered yet what all these egg counting things are made of? Aluminum? Tin? Metal? I did some reading of my own, but I may have missed something.

Thanks,

Bob

Bob - that was something I noticed and liked about the patent I linked above.  It said "and which wheel may be conveniently struck from a piece of sheet metal..."

Because it fits on a cage so well, its most likely an egg counter.  It also counts one number at a time per day. Is there any importance to having a 2 week egg count?

You would think these cheap metal counters would still be made today but everythings plastic and electronic.

I think we can rule out important counters, such as would be in surveying, but an egg counter would not be as disasterous if it somehow slipped off the number.

BigCy ~

As soon as my dad wakes up I will ask him about the two week thing. But he did say, (if his 88 year old memory serves him correctly) he remembers something about a "keeper" hen laying 270 eggs a year.

Also, I still can't get a PDF link to stick, but I'm sure you will be interested in seeing the "Egg Counter" patent I found. But this time, instead of focusing on the dial, please notice the "tabs" on the back of this one. This establishes that these sort of items did in fact have bendable tabs. It clearly states in the text that it was designed to attach to a wire poultry cage. Here's the serial number ... and maybe you could post a link to it since I'm too dumb to figure it out. If I say PDF one more time, I'm going to pull my hair out!

                                  USP#  2787420    1957

             Thanks, and let us know what you think of those tabs.

Bob    

   Here's one of those crazy links to the "Egg Counter" with the bendable tabs.

    I apologize if not everyone can open it, but it's the best I can come up with.

Bob

http://patimg1.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid...dkey=NONE&Input=View+first+page

   Here's one of those crazy links to the "Egg Counter" with the bendable tabs.

    I apologize if not everyone can open it, but it's the best I can come up with.

Bob

http://patimg1.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid...dkey=NONE&Input=View+first+page

Makes you wonder if these egg counters became obsolete shortly after they were invented or if they ever were massproduced  If it took one counter per cage you would think we could find many other examples 

Patent 2,787,420 posted by Bob:

http://www.google.com/patents?id=f5...;cad=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false

IronSpike ~

                                                 Thanks.

   I'm changing Patent sites right now! The one I've been using is too complicated.

I'm a little confused on some of the Philidelphia Lawer language they use in these abstract descriptions. But if I read this one right it refers to parts of this particular device as being made of plastic, and yet it has bendable tabs.    Plus it refers to the sprocket part as a "Finger Wheel" which may be a key word for future research.

And as long as we are on the subject of egg counters, check out this next one. It doesn't have a wheel ... and even after studying it, I'm still not sure how it works.

                             US Patent     2,753,115      1956

I'm going to try IronSpike's patent site and possibly be back with a link to this item.

Bob 

 

 

Bobs egg counter with bendable tabs. 

Makes you wonder if these egg counters became obsolete shortly after they were invented or if they ever were massproduced   If it took one counter per cage you would think we could find many other examples  

People must have considered counting their eggs as utmost importance. Heres Bobs next link. One of the inventors names is James Eggink.  This design doesnt have the spinning wheel but counts with stairsteps type notches.  Special patented bendable tabs.  http://www.google.com/patents?q=Pat...2C753%2C115&btnG=Search+Patents
   

[If its not an eggcounter, it should be.]

This item is for the small homestead chicken farmer.  Larger poultry operations use larger electronic counters. But this type would make sense being found in a small 50's Alaskan homestead. Someone just needs to show this around to some small time chicken keepers. While their at it, they could ask about that copper tube "found in a chicken coop". http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,198092.0.html   I think this is well on its way to being solved. If its not an eggcounter, it should be.  

I'm really sorry, folks ... I'm trying to figure out this patent link/image process, but I just can't get a handle on it. Plus, I just spoke with my dad, and although he left the farm in 1942 to join the CBs, his brother continued working it well into the 1960s. Dad's opinion is that during the late 40s and and early 50s, the children, like in the case of my uncle, decided to make some major changes in the way egg ranches were operated.There was no longer time to write down any more stuff than was necessary, thus the increase in inventions. I came across one invention referred to as a "Poultry Handling System, patent # 3706300, that is really just a huge vacuum that sucks chickens from the barns and deposits them in truck cages for transport. Craziest thing I ever heard of! When I was twenty years old I worked at a large commercial ranch for a while, and by the end of the egg gathering run (by means of a golf cart up and down the isles) I would have no less than 50 flats of eggs to store away in the cooler. I hated it, and can still recall that egg smell.

Anyway, here's a couple more egg counter patents. You can't help but wonder how many variations there were. Which is a good thing, I guess, because it adds hope to the item in question as being one of them. But if it wasn't patented, I think we're in big trouble.

                           Here's those other two designs I found ...

Bob

                           2474965 (1949)  and  2696349  (1954)

P.S. Added: I started patent searching under "egg tally" where Bramblefind's image originally came from, and then switched to "egg counter" where I found most of mine, but have hit a dead end on this so called "egg-roll" with both of them. I'm still convinced our item is hiding somewhere among the millions of patents. I'm going back now to do another search on the pool/billiards possibility. That 14/15? number aspect has to be a clue.    

Mel Fisher was a chicken farmer so you are in good company.

I have chores today, and no more time to do what I enjoy most, which is searching through millions of patent files. But if there is someone out there who is looking for something to do, try an exact , "single word" patent search for ...

           ~  Tally and/or Tallying  ~  / ~ Counter and/or Counting ~

I just took a quick peek at them, and it looks like they might produce some interesting stuff. But be sure to leave off the egg/chicken/poultry part and stick with a single word. And unless something jumps out at you, just watch the patent numbers as you scroll through. The 2 and 3 million numbers cover most of the 1940s and 50s. Watch for anything under 4 million.

              Here's my current favorite Patent site. Free and (sort of) easy.

                             http://www.freepatentsonline.com/

Good luck, and I hope when I return this thing will be solved. Today just might be the day!?

BOB



                                    

I'm still cleaning out the storage shed, and getting rid of all of my chicken plucking stuff, but I just got an e-mail from my brother who said he was getting some interesting hits earlier while patent searching ...

                                     "Score Keeping Device"

But, like me, he doesn't have time today to check it out and wants to pass it on to anyone who might be interested. He said he only scratched the surface. I haven't even looked at it myself, but trust in my brother's judgement. But don't quote me on that, just in case it flops!

BOB

 

I was hoping to get some additional information on Google Books but the 2 things that look interesting are only available as "snippet" view.  They are a 1956 issue of the Poultry Tribune and a book called "Keeping Chickens in Cages" by Roland C. Hartman (1953 edition) - I tried to trick it into giving up some information via using certain search terms.  Here is what I have from the Hartman book (the last snippet is from page 120):

I can't stand it if I don't post something every five minutes! This time I would like to do another summary of sorts. I think (hope) at this point that most of us agree on at least a couple of them. And its not all conjecture either - recent evidence supports certain aspects of the following ...

                                                  The Item ...

                                1. Is a manual counting/tallying device.

                                       2.  Mounts to a wire cage.

                3.  Has features that suggest it was invented in the 1940s - 50s.

                 4.  Has 14 numbers on it that suggest a two week time period.

       5.  Is inexpensively made, suggesting something other than technical importance.

                                                      ~ * ~

I realize there is nothing here we don't already know (suspect), and I only point them out now to refresh our memories with the hope someone may pick up on a clue of some kind. All things considered, it is my opinion there is but one missing word here, which will eventually connect all of the dots. And I would like nothing more than for that single word to be ...

                                                     "Egg"

But ... If it is a "Manually operated, aluminum, cage mounted, egg tallying device from the 1950s," then why in the blazes can't we find a reference/image of one? Does this suggest it's something else? I guess only the test of time will answer this. I realize this is not a vote, but based on the current evidence I honestly believe we have identified it ... but unfortunately we need a PHOTO to prove it.  

                                         Thanks, I feel better now.

                                                      

                                                      BOB            

I also think its a poultry egg counter and Bramblefind found the closest match.  When I took this item in my hand and clipped it to the cage type wire fence, I was convinced. It clips on the cage just too good, it must be cage/fence related. It fit so tight the bottom bend up tabs were not needed.  Unfortunately the part with the manufacturers name is most likely broken or cut off. I believe the missing part to be simply a generic type clip.

                                 There may be a slight crack in our egg ...

At least, according to my dad there is. As most of you know by now, my dad grew up on a chicken ranch during the 1920s-30s until he was twenty years old. And my uncle had it for another twenty-plus years after that. Anyway, dad says the 14/15 numbers are most likely not related to egg counting, but rather are connected in some way to keeping track of vaccinations - feeding - etc., etc., that would tie in with a two week time period, with the offset 15 indicating the process had reached it's end or was started over again. In his opinion there is just nothing about the numers 14/15 that makes the least bit of since involving the counting of egg production. He also added that if the dial had 1 thru 0, 1 thru 20/30, or some other higher combination of numbers like those we've seen on other inventions, then he felt we were on the right track. But he suggested that I and others to take a closer look at the two week vaccination idea and see if anything turned up.

The only reason I haven't done this already is because I need the support and help of others to investigate this. The more eyes we have looking, and fingers clicking the sooner we'll have some answers to this puzzle. I don't know yet if dad is right or wrong, but I intend to take a look into it and see what I can find. Okay, dad - here goes nothing ... or everything!  

      And yes, dad read Bramblefind's snippets. He interprets them differently.  

                             Personally, I still think it's an egg counter.

Thanks again,

Bob and Roy

          P.S. Here's a photo of my dad and his dog Prince on the ranch in 1934 - Age 12      

Why cant you count eggs for a two week period?  BTW the counter never reaches #15.

BigCy ~

This is my dad's opinion. About all I can add to try and answer your question is that this is my dad's recollection, saying all of the egg tallying stuff he remembers was usually based on monthly/yearly records - not weekly. But he does remember with thousands of chickens there were always a bunch of them that needed vaccinations, special feed, or something. He remembers keeping track of that kind of stuff, but they didn't have finger wheels to use, and had to write everything down with pencil and paper. But it may be worth taking a look at. Personally, I still think it's an egg counter!   (Seriously).

Thanks,

Bob

P.S.  My dad wanted to add, with all due respect, that even though the pointer doesn't go to the 15, the 15 is still there for some reason. 

BigCy ~

This is my dad's opinion. About all I can add to try and answer your question is that this is my dad's recollection, saying all of the egg tallying stuff he remembers was usually based on monthly/yearly records - not weekly. But he does remember with thousands of chickens there were always a bunch of them that needed vaccinations, special feed, or something. He remembers keeping track of that kind of stuff, but they didn't have finger wheels to use, and had to write everything down with pencil and paper. But it may be worth taking a look at. Personally, I still think it's an egg counter!   (Seriously).

Thanks,

Bob

P.S.  My dad wanted to add, with all due respect, that even though the pointer doesn't go to the 15, the 15 is still there for some reason.  

I went back and reread your prior post and yes I agree with your Dad that the process most likely has reached its end at 15 and needs to start over again.    It however IMO could just be a number that may rarely be reached.   Maybe Im way off but is it possible for a hen on a rare occasion to lay 15 eggs in 2 weeks?

Your Dad indeed has much experience in poultry raising but I am still hoping a 2 week egg counter could be a possibility.

Any luck on the vaccination angle?

I think it was mentioned here earlier that some times the actual piece would differ slightly from patent drawings. Bramblefind's patent is so very close and all the findings now seem to add up.

Maybe we'll find an advertisement for it, but doubt many actual pieces have survived (most likely scrapped/recycled with the metal cages). Other than patents we haven't been able to find any of the old egg counters 

Poultry history is well documented and there has to be a confirmatory ID out there somewhere 

Interesting inventions in poultry. Check out this one 

http://www.nationalband.com/nbtcohis.htm

Are you reading this BOB? Go back and look at Bramblefinds patent egg counter. Even though it has 2 wheels, I dont think it can count an entire month. Am I correct or not?

I think it counts to 19. Is that a months output? 

                          BigCy ~  Nothing yet on the vaccination theory.

IronSpike ~ I thought the poultry (sucking them out of the barn and depositing them into a transport truck with a huge vacuum invention - Patent # 3,706,300) was crazy. But your chicken "glasses" are downright Twilight Zone!

                                                     ~ * ~

                 If I can explain the following properly, it may be of some help.

Dad pointed out that it was unheard of to have only one chicken per cage,(at least during the 1930s when the chickens ran around loose in large barns/houses), and later when cages were introduced, this number was at least ten or more per cage. Thus, the complication of being able to determine and keep track of which chicken laid which egg and how many. Of course, a couple of the inventions we've seen are counting devices that attached directly to the wing, but I for one still don't quite understand how those devices worked, other than to say they are probably not the item we are looking for.

I will confirm this next part with my dad later, but I believe he said the ranch he grew up on averaged about 5 thousand chickens. Which would be considered small by today's standards, but certainly adequate enough to support a family of five throughout the depression without hardship. He said their method of keeping track of an individual chicken's egg laying production involved removing it from the cage and isolating it in a seperate cage by itself. He can't recall how often they did this, nor exactly how long the chicken was isolated, but he does recall that in their particular case everything was recorded on paper, and not by means of any kind of counting device. But he admits the possibility that they were behind the times, or else these counting devices hadn't been invented yet.

In any event, he still believes the item in question is related to a "day/week" count, and not an "egg" count. And that it possibly may be the vaccination tracker he mentioned earlier, or an isolation tracker as just discussed. As for myself, I'm more confused than ever! I like both the egg counting idea, as well as the day counting idea. But, unfortunately, I cannot prove either one.

I hope this helps, and thank everyone on behalf of my dad who, I'm pleased to say, has taken a real interest in this topic. As soon as someone said "chicken," his ears perked up. Remember, he's 88 years old, not in the best of health, and spends about the same amount of time stuck in his reclining chair as I do in my office chair. I'm glad to see him get involved with something other than television.  

Thanks again to all ~

Bob        

Your Dads poultry raising expertise is a welcome addition.

It seems possible to me that individual chickens could be isolated for 2 weeks at a time to check their production. 

BigCy ~

                           Dad says ... "Thanks!"  (And so do I).

I forgot to mention that this isolation process wasn't just one chicken at a time, but was "dozens/hundreds" at a time. But still in the same laying house, only segregated from the others. Plus, every chicken was banded with an individual identification number.

             On a personal note, I'm not sure of the proper wording for ...

                       " Chicken Isolation Tracking Device"  

And let me be the first to say, despite this so called "new evidence," the current Patent findings still point to "egg counter." And dad said he will concede his "guess" if no one finds a single bit of evidence to support his "day/week" counting device idea!  (I think that's fair).



Bob

What type of 2 week vaccinations/special feed/medications do chickens need?

 We can start a new thread-  "All you ever wanted to know about chickens but were afraid to ask."

BigCy ~

Please note I'm no chicken expert. But if I may be allowed to kid with you for a moment ...

                    Where do you think "Chicken Pox" came from?

Seriously ... Dad said (and he's right here with me today) that chickens are notorious for contracting various bird diseases, and need vaccinations of one kind or another on a fairly regular basis, which sometimes involves special feeds. He also said that a happy and healthy chicken will lay more eggs. (I can't speak for everyone, but I seriously question the "happy" part).  

     I guess the only thing to do is more re-re-research and see what turns up.

Bob

  

Bird flu.    Im sure a happy and healthy hen lays more eggs. Sounds believable.

I dont mean to get off the subject but whoevers finds one of these Amusement Devices will never figure it out. Its the same finger advancement, one increment at a time, but check out the number sequences. I dont imagine this patented invention caught on.

I was looking at that when you posted it earlier, and it looks like some type of 1930s "Rubix Cube."
              
                         Which might be an appropriate title for this thread.  

Bob

I intended to mention this earlier, but I wanted to do some research on it first. Well, I've done some research, but unfortunately haven't found anything ... yet!

           It involves what my dad insist is offically called a chicken/hen "Trapping Station."

He said his High School Ag Class (around 1937/39) was involved with this device, and that over time they had made some improvements on it. He said it was a nesting box of sorts where the hen would enter when ready to lay. He said the one they experimented with in school was made of light weight wood, but that later variations were likely made of aluminum or tin. But definitely something light weight. He said the way it worked, was that when the hen entered the "trapping station," a specially designed door with a "tigger" of some sort would automatically close, thus "trapping" the hen inside until a worker came along, recorded the egg count, and then released her back into the community cage. He said they didn't use these on the family farm, (too expensive), but that it was "definitely a patented invention."

Although he doesn't ever recall any kind of finger-wheel tallying device, he did say that maybe our item was in some way related to this trapping station. But so far I haven't found anything on it, nor am I sure exactly how it might be described under a patent design. Maybe someone else (Like our man BrambleFind) can find something on it.

Thanks again,

BODUNKBOB        

Bob - I think possibly the raising of chickens in individual cages was a concept that came about in the 1950s and might not have lasted much past that decade.  I'm not sure though.   But I do know that it was a practice to raise the chickens in individual cages at sometime and somewhere.

The patent itself reads:

At the present time cages are used within which hens are individually confined

Also - check this out-

I'm sure by now many of us have found lots of patents related to "individual" poultry laying nest. But rather than post everyone of them, I'm going to wait until I find one that will actually benifit us here. But mark my words, "there are lots of them!" Many of which have "trap doors."

                   I've be mainly looking under ... "POULTRY NEST."

        But I'm sure other word combinations will also produce some eggs.

                                        BOILEDEGGBOB

P.S. Dad's full of information, if I can just squeeze it out of him. Now he's talking about what they used to call a "Setter."  This is a hen that has quit laying, and just sits on the nest all day hoping something will happen. He said these setters were the focus of many a Sunday dinner.  

Bob - I think possibly the raising of chickens in individual cages was a concept that came about in the 1950s and might not have lasted much past that decade.  I'm not sure though.   But I do know that it was a practice to raise the chickens in individual cages at sometime and somewhere.

The patent itself reads:

At the present time cages are used within which hens are individually confined

Well there you go.  I like the part where a large New York hotel raises its own chickens on the roof.

(Like our man BrambleFind)

I thought you might still have that mixed up!

I am a woman

A Gyno American 

                                               ~ Oops ~

                                     My profoundest apologies!

                  I'm going to blame it on the poor memory excuse again!

And just to prove my sincerity, here's another gold star for you valuable contributions.

                                                 ~ * ~

       Question:  Is there such a thing as "Half of a green check mark?"

               I'm not sure I can survive another four years of research!

                                      BUMBLINGIDIOTBOB

I realize I am not the owner of this thread, ( in fact, I'm not sure who is these days), but I feel so confident this is going to be solved soon, that I just couldn't help but try and push it over the top with this encouraging little addition. Plus, I took a quick peek at the rules and couldn't find where it said this wasn't allowed. So who will it be that eventually finds the missing "Link?"  Probably not me, but I'm trying my best!

Bob

                                                       HALF SOLVED  

 

BigCy ~

This is my dad's opinion. About all I can add to try and answer your question is that this is my dad's recollection, saying all of the egg tallying stuff he remembers was usually based on monthly/yearly records - not weekly. But he does remember with thousands of chickens there were always a bunch of them that needed vaccinations, special feed, or something. He remembers keeping track of that kind of stuff, but they didn't have finger wheels to use, and had to write everything down with pencil and paper. But it may be worth taking a look at. Personally, I still think it's an egg counter!   (Seriously).

Thanks,

Bob

P.S.  My dad wanted to add, with all due respect, that even though the pointer doesn't go to the 15, the 15 is still there for some reason.  

I went back and reread your prior post and yes I agree with your Dad that the process most likely has reached its end at 15 and needs to start over again.    It however IMO could just be a number that may rarely be reached.   Maybe Im way off but is it possible for a hen on a rare occasion to lay 15 eggs in 2 weeks?

Your Dad indeed has much experience in poultry raising but I am still hoping a 2 week egg counter could be a possibility.

Any luck on the vaccination angle?

The odd thing about the number 15 on the dial is that the only way that the pointer lines up with it, is after the wheel is reset back to the beginning and can be pointed to directly just before going to number one, but not after 14 because the stop prevents it.   http://forum.treasurenet.com/index....ic,58818.msg1505640.html#msg1505640



Check out the funny ideas from boing boing http://www.boingboing.net/2008/11/06/metal-detectorists-m.html 
GG~

I'm posting this for my dad in support of his "Trapping Station" idea. He took a look at the print out and said it looks a lot like the invention he remembers from High School. It's called a Trap Nest from 1931. But sorry, no egg counting device yet. By the way, finding this really made my dad's day. He said, "See, I told you there was such a thing!"

Bob

                             http://www.freepatentsonline.com/1822048.pdf


                                    U.S. Patent no. 1,822,048     1929/31

 

I realize I am not the owner of this thread, ( in fact, I'm not sure who is these days),

Goodyguy is the owner. He lent it to me for a couple weeks. I need to send it back.

 

This link is pretty cool, and basic. It will answer most of the basic questions we have about chickens. It's family friendly too, and even the youngin's will like it.  

Bob

                 http://www.angelfire.com/oh/ZebraDirectory/faq.html#babychicks









        

BigCy ~

Sorry to report I didn't find much on your NFC yet. (Just took a quick look. And never heard of one until now). But I did find something possibly related on one of those Yahoo Ask Questions sites. It's a forum of sorts, and this particular one was posted two days ago. Maybe it's your NFC.     (Quote is from a real site).

(But if seriously what to know about them, I will be happy to when I get a minute).

BOO

                  What Nocturnal animal screams like a child in Florida?

"I live in the suburbs but I was given permission to have a few chickens. The last few nights however, something has been attacking them. Whatever animal it is screams like a child, only attacks at night and must live in Florida (That's where I am). I've never even caught sight of it though because it runs away whenever I come outside."

sounds like a cat.

With All and Every Respect Peoples - aren't we going a little off subject  

yea I was just going to say that. NO more Nocturnal Florida chicken talk here. You can PM me. Im removing my off topic post.

                                     "EGG TALLYING DEVICE"

It seems like only yesterday there was talk about post #1000. Now here we are on #1204. Not to menton the 64,377+ views it has received. You can't help but wonder how many combined hours have been devoted to researching this topic. And yet, even with the latest flurry of compelling evidence, there is still no positive identification in the foreseeable forecast. I think it goes without saying that most of us agree by now that it is probably some kind of egg counter or tallying device used in some manner with the poultry industry.

                                                   But ...

                                 What if it was never patented?

From what I have learned recently about inventors and patents, it appears that most patents take a couple of years to process before receiving a final approval. We've all seen those "Patent Pending" designations on items. But for some reason our little mystery item doesn't have a patent number stamped on it. My question is, "Why?" I'm sure there are a variety of answers to this question, but the fact still remains, "No patent number!"

                         The point I'm attempting to make is this ...

If it turns out not to have been patented, where do we look next? My personal set of circumstances lately have allowed me to spend hours upon hours scrolling through thousands of patent designs. But I know that not everyone has the time or interest for such exhaustive research. And to tell you the truth, my so called time and talents regarding patent searches has almost reached it's limit as well. I'm beginning to think it may never have been patented,        (with this "opinion" based primarily on the fact that it is not marked with a number).

               To repeat my initial question ... "Where do we look next?"

I think Bramblefind is on the right track with old magazines and other related catagories, but I have just recently discovered, (speaking only for myself), that this area of search is even more of a nightmare than patents. So without wasting any more of your valuable time than I already have, I must bid you all ado until a later date when something more substantial presents itself. My personal circumstances have changed where I no longer have the three or four hours a day to devote to this. Hopefully, someone with more time and talent than myself will stumble onto something that will send this thing rocketing to the moon. It's been a fun ride, and I wish each and every one of you good health and the very best of luck. And thanks to "All of you" for letting me be me, and for the immeasurable assistance you have shared along the way.

                                          Adios (For now).

                                         SODABOTTLEBOB

                                                    

                                         Again, "Good Luck"

P.S.  And just when I finally figured out why my Patent Links wouldn't post. I discovered that for some unexplainable reason when I tried to paste them, that the pdf on the end of the link would mysteriously get capitalized to PDF, thus it wouldn't work. So if this ever happens to anyone else, just erase and change it back to the lower case pdf, and it will work fine.    



 

It seems like only yesterday there was talk about post #1000. Now here we are on #1204. Not to menton the 64,377+ views it has received.  

Good for the sponsors and/or advertisers.

...I think it goes without saying that most of us agree by now that it is probably some kind of egg counter or tallying device used in some manner with the poultry industry.

                                   ...But for some reason our little mystery item doesn't have a patent number stamped on it. My question is, "Why?"

1- Patents are only good for the first 12-15 years.
2- I believe the patent number, patent pending, or manufacturers numbers, if they existed, were on the broken off, or snipped off, part.

I think she is very close to a green check but look at the bottom right hand corner under references and it will give a few related patents worth searching. Also claims may be worth a search.


  [ ERROR: SPECIFIED ATTACHMENT MISSING ]

Here is a patented amusement device 1,960,363 that I came up with from this reference list but I didnt check them all. http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=AnVAAAAAEBAJ&dq=1960363
[ ERROR: SPECIFIED ATTACHMENT MISSING ]

And a camera counter. The only similarity I see is the back tabs. http://www.google.com/patents?id=O_...ource=gbs_selected_pages&cad=2#
[ ERROR: SPECIFIED ATTACHMENT MISSING ]

What is a claim (10 claims)? What's the foreign patent for?

If musclecar's find is a prototype I doubt we'll get much further than where we are right now (very close).

I think she is very close to a green check but look at the bottom right hand corner under references and it will give a few related patents worth searching. Also claims may be worth a search.


 

Here is a patented amusement device 1,960,363 that I came up with from this reference list but I didnt check them all. http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=AnVAAAAAEBAJ&dq=1960363
And a camera counter. The only similarity I see is the back tabs. http://www.google.com/patents?id=O_...ource=gbs_selected_pages&cad=2#

What is a claim (10 claims)? What's the foreign patent for?

If musclecar's find is a prototype I doubt we'll get much further than where we are right now (very close).

The 10 claims is nothing but the patent references are worth searching. I believe I checked Yearwood and Drotning and I got a few good ones but I didnt check the foreign patent reference or the oldest references. I think its definitely worth a try if you have the time.

I just checked them all but the foreign patent.

I just checked them all but the foreign patent.

Can't get anything on the foreign patent. Not sure which patent search would be best 

I hope I didn't come across earlier as sounding as if I had lost interest in this topic. Nothing could be farther from the truth. It's just that as of today circumstances are such that my search time has been drastically reduced to about a half-hour a day. Which just isn't enough time to be scrolling through thousands and thousands of Patents. But I will drop in from time to time to see how things are going, and to share stuff like the following that I found on e-Bay. If I had the time, I would seriously look into this kind stuff. Old poultry magazines and other related catagories may be where our little item is hiding. But I'm not hiding, I just won't be around as much as I used to be. Which may be a blessing in discuise to many of you.  

ILLBEBACKBOB

P.S. For those of you with the time and interest to continue doing patent searches, be sure to look under "Poultry Cage" --- "Chicken Cage" --- (The word "device" on the end may help). I took a quick patent peek at "Poultry/Chicken Cage"  and stumbled into all kinds of interesting stuff.

                   http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Ralston...DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5632c7f966








  

Nice happy picture on the booklet. I tried googling modern "cage egg factories" and I got a lot of this.
http://www.eggindustry.com/

My guess is (like Bramblefind suggested) that this is a cage egg counter but was manufactured in a different era of small homestead poultry farms. The modern era of large overcrowded automated cage egg factories probably made this hand counter obsolete.

Although many of you may already have looked at similar patent pages, this is primarily for those who have not and would like to give it a shot. This link will put you on page 34 of an exact word search for "Egg." There is all kinds of stuff here, including various egg counters and so much other stuff there is no way I am ever going to be able to look at it all. I can tell you this, though, most of these items are "Old" patent numbers, and even if our item isn't buried here somewhere, it will be a real education on early patents related to ... what else? "Egg Related Devices/Apparatus, etc." From what I've seen so far, this may be the cream of the crop. I'm really not sure how far it goes, but I jumped forward to page 60 and it was still going.  Good luck. I hope you find something.

BOB

P.S. If this is your first time, or not all that familiar with patent searches, once you select the item you want to look at, just scroll down to where you see the "Download PDF," click on that and you're there. And then just back click your way out to the next selection and so on.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/re...ance&srch=top&query_txt=egg  
 

BigCy ~

Good morning. I was hoping you might be interested in doing another experiment with the tallying device. I'm providing the link to Bramblefind's original discovery so you won't have to back track to find it. Or perhaps you have already printed it which would be even easier. In any event, read paragraph 55 where it discusses the "card" for recording the tally information. I realize our item in question is different than this one that has a plate as part of the design, but I just have to believe that any such device would have a record card associated with it. In my opinion it wouldn't make sense to keep a tally and not have some convienient place to record it. There is no way that your everyday egg gatherer is going to remember everything, nor do I believe he is going to record it elsewhere.

Thus, the experiment I have in mind is to attach the device to the cage wire again, only this time slip an index/recipe type card under the two flat tabs on the side to see how securly it might fit. Try it a couple of different ways if necessary, such as under the two tabs but still on top of the flange part next to the two flat tabs I still believe it's an egg tallying device, and if this experiment works as I hope it will, it will reinforce this belief. A photo of what you come up with would also be helpful.

Plus, if this works, it wouldn't surprise me if somewhere along the line someone invented a special pencil on a chain that attached some where on the device itself, or on the cage.

          I hope this isn't asking too much, and will look forward to your response.

Thanks much,

Bob

P.S.  I think we all agree it mounted to the cage sideways where the numbers could be read upright, thus placing the index card on the side where I believe it should be.

    Bramblefind's link  >   http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=udhPAAAAEBAJ












                        

I can try it but it fits tight and I doubt an index card will fit underneath the little tabs. Even if it did fit, it would be a very poor writing surface with the bumps and fence underneath. But Ill try it later.

Also how would a person write inside the cage?

BigCy ~

Thanks. It is my belief the device mounted "outside" of the cage. And probably high up somewhere out of the chicken's reach. Chickens are notorious for pecking at anything and everything in sight, thus the risk of hitting the finger wheel and moving it. 

BOB

BigCy ~

Thanks. It is my belief the device mounted "outside" of the cage. And probably high up somewhere out of the chicken's reach. Chickens are notorious for pecking at anything and everything in sight, thus the risk of hitting the finger wheel and moving it.  

BOB

If it cant be mounted on the outside of the cage because a chicken would peck at it, it would defeat our entire theory wouldnt it?

                                            "NEWS FLASH!"

This is another one of those subjects that is a little difficult to explain, but I will do my best to make it easily understandable. And this comes from my dad again, who has more of an understanding of "Poultry Science" that I was previously aware of.

To start with, he assumed we all understood that poultry farmers, (at least during the 1920s, 30s and 40s) had little or no time to be keeping track of the individual production of thousands upon thousands of chickens, and that almost everything involved along these lines was done on a "percentage basis."  Dad expounded by saying that any true-blue poultryman, (including any hired worker who knew his/her stuff), could spot a non producing hen a country mile away. He said these non/low producers were called "setters," and that even in the cages where there were no real nest to speak of and only had wire mesh bottoms, these setters would just sit in the corner somewhere as if waiting for something to happen that never did. Thus, they were immediately yanked from the cage and sold or prepared for dinner that evening.

Please note dad admits changes have occurred over the years, and that text references on patents refer to tallying devices being attached to cages, but he strongly believes that any kind of cage mounted egg counting devise was not used on an everyday basis on everyday farms who sometimes had tens of thousands of laying hens. He said there was just no (mass produced) "need" for it!  A "setter" was a "setter," and that's how my grandfather and everone else in the county "culled" (got rid of) their non producing hens.

                                                   However ...

Dad added that most poultry farmers (then and now) were/are members of various poultry organizations whose primary role was to find better ways of maintaining healthier chickens for the sole purpose of producing more eggs. These poultry organizations did all kinds of research that can only be described as "Poultry Science."  Dad said that my grandfather, as well as every other poultryman in the county who was a member, were required to provide ten randomly selected "layer's." Dad emphasied this randon selection because it was intended to fall into the overall percentage factor previously mentioned. And then the poultry organization would keep these "layer's" under close observation for about a year, keeping track primarily of their egg production, and accordingly would arrive at which farmer was raising the best laying hens. And when this was determined (whether it was the feed the farmer was using or whatever) they would breed and cross-breed the best of the best hens until they had the highest egg producing hens that money could buy. Note: Dad said that the same particular feed mix used by a particular farmer was the only thing allowed to be given to his particular hens. The farmer's/members were also required in various ways to participate in the testing. He said members had to pay fees for this type of research, and it just so happened that my grandfather's hens took first place one year, and within a period of time they were developing and hatching chicks directly from my grandfather's "strain." (I intend to research this and see if I can find any records).

                                              Bottom Line ... ?

Dad is strongly of the opinion that most of these so called "Tallying Devices" were intended for labratory, (Poultry Organization) use and to him this would be a very logical place to search for a possible identification.

                      "Poultry Science/Labratory/Poultry Organizations"

                   I'm sorry this was so long, but this is in response to ...

  "Everything you ever wanted to know about chickens but were afraid to ask."

BOB

    

I think the reason we cannot find an exact match because this is a patented invention that was not needed.

I think the reason we cannot find an exact match because this is a patented invention that was not needed.

 

Ok here is a snippet page from the 1956 Poultry Tribune that I referenced before-

At this point I am convinced that it is a counter that was designed to mount onto a wire cage as a tallying device for something, either dosages, or time intervals, or eggs laid, or whatever.

What puzzles me is whether it was designed with a specific use in mind or generic in nature.  The small number 15 that cannot be reached chronologically because of the stop, but can be pointed to before going to the number one after resetting the dial still has me baffled.

15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14  

I want to send out a special thank you to Big Cy,  SODABOTTLEBOB,  and everyone else for all your time effort and energy spent on working to find a positive ID on this "Thang"   

It is one of those things that you feel shouldn't be that hard to identify and it drives you nuts trying because it seems like it should be so easy.

Somewhere, somehow, someone, will identify what this thang is and I will be so glad when this mystery is laid to rest once and for all.
But with that said, until then I am satisfied that the "thang" is just a "cage mounted counter"  

GG~

                            BigCy ~ Bramblefind ~ GoodGuy ~ And All

                                               ~ THANKS ~

I too am convinced of the two week tracking system. As for the other information I posted earlier, I'm just trying to keep my dad involved as he is 88 years old and not in the best of health. But he does have a considerable amount of hands on experience with poultry, even if it was 70+ years ago. He is really getting a big kick out of this whole thing, and it pleases me to see him take an interest in something new.

I'm beginning to think, and trying to convince my dad as well, that what he recalls from the earlier years involving labratory tracking, counting, etc., were likely some of the first significant advances being made in this whole Poultry Sience field, and that the device in question may very well have been one of the inventions that resulted from all of those years of research. But the point he's trying to make is, (in his own words) "They never had nothing like that when I was a kid!" Which, if nothing else, may help to establish a date of the invention as being after World War II. (I realize we already suspect this, but convincing my dad of that is a little more complicated).

                                                But ...

Since nothing has been found yet, it certainly couldn't hurt to take a look at some of that Poultry Association research, and see if anything turns up. And I apologize again for not having the time to do more research myself, but circumstances lately make it almost impossible. If dad comes up with any more "brain-storms", I'll be sure to post it. (But, please take it with a grain of salt). By the way, before retirement dad spent 40+ years working for a major gas and electric company as an operations superintendant/engineer involved with the design and installation of numerous transmission lines, many of which were major projects and still in use today.

Thanks again,

Bob

          

What puzzles me is whether it was designed with a specific use in mind or generic in nature.  The small number 15 that cannot be reached chronologically because of the stop, but can be pointed to before going to the number one after resetting the dial still has me baffled.

15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14  

Because you mentioned it, I have been studying your tab. I believe the stop tab is put exactly where it is so it can start properly on zero. Here it is on start up position zero (pointer on small #15).



The second pic goes from zero to #1.



Here it is hitting the tab after #14. Like you say, the pointer cannot reach #15.

At this point the counting is over and the wheel needs to be turned back. It needs reset back to zero (small #15). If that makes any sense. It probably should say zero but its also a theoretical #15.

 It could also be used as a ONE MONTH COUNTER where you need to reset the wheel to #15 and start over..

BigCy ~

Good morning. I was hoping you might be interested in doing another experiment with the tallying device. I'm providing the link to Bramblefind's original discovery so you won't have to back track to find it. Or perhaps you have already printed it which would be even easier. In any event, read paragraph 55 where it discusses the "card" for recording the tally information. I realize our item in question is different than this one that has a plate as part of the design, but I just have to believe that any such device would have a record card associated with it. In my opinion it wouldn't make sense to keep a tally and not have some convienient place to record it. There is no way that your everyday egg gatherer is going to remember everything, nor do I believe he is going to record it elsewhere.

Thus, the experiment I have in mind is to attach the device to the cage wire again, only this time slip an index/recipe type card under the two flat tabs on the side to see how securly it might fit. Try it a couple of different ways if necessary, such as under the two tabs but still on top of the flange part next to the two flat tabs I still believe it's an egg tallying device, and if this experiment works as I hope it will, it will reinforce this belief. A photo of what you come up with would also be helpful.

Plus, if this works, it wouldn't surprise me if somewhere along the line someone invented a special pencil on a chain that attached some where on the device itself, or on the cage.

          I hope this isn't asking too much, and will look forward to your response.

Thanks much,

Bob

P.S.  I think we all agree it mounted to the cage sideways where the numbers could be read upright, thus placing the index card on the side where I believe it should be.

    Bramblefind's link  >   http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=udhPAAAAEBAJ












                        

 An index card will not slip under the 2 tabs easily when connected to a fence. The part that broke off may be some kind of clip. The device is too small for an index card so I used a business card for a pic.

[Bramblefinds patent uses 2 wheels for an improved counting method.]

At this point I am convinced that it is a counter that was designed to mount onto a wire cage as a tallying device for something, either dosages, or time intervals, or eggs laid, or whatever.

What puzzles me is whether it was designed with a specific use in mind or generic in nature.  The small number 15 that cannot be reached chronologically because of the stop, but can be pointed to before going to the number one after resetting the dial still has me baffled.

15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14  

GG~

I believe its a 2 week counter and the #15 is there to for the option to be used as a one month counter. I added this to my post above. When the egg count hits #15 you need to reset the wheel counterclockwise and continue counting...  
(just add the second wheel count onto the first wheel count of 15).

 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9   10  11  12  13  14 reset wheel to 15  and keep counting adding the additional duckie eggs onto the previous 15...

Bramblefinds patent uses 2 wheels for an improved counting method. Or maybe the Alaskan find  is the improved simpler version.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=ud...zoom=4#v=onepage&q=&f=false

         This may be of interest to someone who is interested in looking into it.

                It's the official site of the U.S. Poultry & Egg Association.

I just sent them an e-mail inquiry with attached photos, and will let you know if/when I hear back from them. If anyone knows whether the item is poultry related or not, they should.

Regarding the site itself, I only had time to read their history, but also discovered that by looking under "Research/Learn More," a search box comes up that, with the right word combination, may produce something. But I recommend terms like "Egg Production" and/or "Research" as opposed to terms like, "Egg Tallying Device," which produced zero results when I tried it.

Bob

                       http://www.poultryegg.org/index.cfm

BigCy ~

Thanks for the experiment with the business card, but unless I explained it wrong, I was thinking of something more along these lines. Pardon my draftsmenship, and the oversized image, but this is the best I could do. I honestly don't know how to reduce the size of the image. But if someone was willing to do it for me, I will remove this one.

Thanks,

Bob

                                P.S.  Please see next post for reduced image.

       Thanks 72cheyenne ...    One of these days I'm going to figure that stuff out.
          

 

here ya go 

I just now recieved two seperate e-mails from two different departments of the U.S. Poultry Association in Washington D.C.  Both said they were forwarding my inquiry around for various people to take a look at. Keep your fingers crossed, and hopefully we will hear back from them soon.

Bob

BigCy ~

Thanks for the experiment with the business card, but unless I explained it wrong, I was thinking of something more along these lines. Pardon my draftsmenship, and the oversized image, but this is the best I could do. I honestly don't know how to reduce the size of the image. But if someone was willing to do it for me, I will remove this one.

Thanks,

Bob

                                P.S.  Please see next post for reduced image.

       Thanks 72cheyenne ...    One of these days I'm going to figure that stuff out.
          

 

I reread it and I see now you said "flat" tabs. Its a possibility, I guess, and it would explain the reason the long flat rectangular tabs are not bent.  But if you dont bend these tabs up around the wire cage, it may not secure as well, unless the flat tabs are the bottom. I will have to try it. I didnt mail the package back yet, if I get a chance Ill rip it open.

I have always thought that those tabs were meant to fit under the wires on a cage for a more secure mounting.

Like so:



I also like Big Cy's explanation of why the 15 is located where it is.  That makes sense to extend the count to 30
It had to be significant or else why even have it on there.

GG~

I have always thought that those tabs were meant to fit under the wires on a cage for a more secure mounting.

Like so:
[ ERROR: SPECIFIED ATTACHMENT MISSING ]

That may explain why they are not bent.

The next question is, what were these used for?

I have often wondered about that myself. And the only thing I could think of was maybe optional mounting (nail/screw) holes in the case of a wood/metal design type of cage/box/nest or something along those lines.  

Bob

P.S. Good job! You're quite the CG artist. Maybe you could give me some lessons. ??

The next question is, what were these used for?

[ ERROR: SPECIFIED ATTACHMENT MISSING ]

I could see no markings around those holes to indicate they were ever used..  

I am a retired plumber and similar parts are found in old style water softener time clocks. Many of them count only six days and you need to specify a seven day clock when ordered. Never seen one for fifteen days but who knows.