Test your skills on this one! Spent years trying to ID this.

                                  ~ CHICKEN CHAIN LETTER ~

Regarding the e-mail inquiries I sent out, it appears as if they are being forwarded from one organization to another. The most promising of the lot seems to be in the hands of a retired gentleman by the name of Lou Arrington. Lou is with the American Poultry Historical Society, and it was said, "if anyone knows what the device is, and if it is in fact poultry related, Lou will know". But I have not heard from him yet, and suspect he may just now have received my inquiry. Hopefully I will hear from him tomorrow. As for the others, no one knows what the device is, including the vice president of the Poultry and Egg Institute, which is an affiliate of the U.S. Poultry & Egg Association.

I will let you know if/when I hear more.

Bob

A part for a 15 second or minute timer?

I'm still waiting/hoping to hear from Mr. Arrington, but in re-reading one of the other replies, I discovered this ...  (Copy/Pasted)

"No one on our staff is sure if or how widely such devices may have been used in the egg industry in the 1950s."

                                                      ~ * ~

It's the "If" part I'm wondering about. BigCy alluded to this earlier, (Post # 1217), questioning if these counting devices were ever even used or mass produced. It dosen't "appear" as if they were.  

I'll be back!

Bob


 

I'm not sure if it is considered appropriate to post this here, but another member said I should. But if anyone objects, please contact me via a PM and I will remove it. Also, as much as I appreciate everyone's concern, please don't feel obligated to contact me. I will just assume, and thank you in advance for it being unanimous.

Briefly;  Dad is in the hospital for what the doctor described as "Borderline kidney function."  He is doing fairly well considering, and everytime I speak with him on the phone or visit, he always ask ...

                                      "How's the egg thing going?"

                      I won't mention this subject again until it is behind us.

Thanks again,

Bob

Bob~
Sending some good thoughts for your Dad.  I hope he is feeling better soon.

Him asking about the egg thing made me smile  I hope we can get this figured out for him.

You've made a mighty fine effort with the latest email project.

My best to your Dad. Love how an item so meaningless can conjure so many meaningful memories.

The next question is, what were these used for?

[ ERROR: SPECIFIED ATTACHMENT MISSING ]

Could be screw holes to mount a cover that it might have had.

.

Briefly;  Dad is in the hospital for what the doctor described as "Borderline kidney function."  He is doing fairly well considering, and everytime I speak with him on the phone or visit, he always ask ...

                                      "How's the egg thing going?"

                    

Hope your Dad gets well soon.  

It seems the American Poultry Historical Society is going out of their way to help.

[I]

Bob, Thoughts and Prayers for your Dad  you let him know his knowledge is acknowledged, as far away as New Zealand 

As far as the counter is concerned;

..................................

It's the "If" part I'm wondering about. BigCy alluded to this earlier, (Post # 1217), questioning if these counting devices were ever even used or mass produced. It dosen't "appear" as if they were. 
I'll be back!

Bob

That's a funny factor with the counter. It doesn't look like a 'one off'    maybe it is     and I can drink that bottle of Fine New Zealand Wine 
Mike

I think it was intended to be mass produced but maybe they only made a thousand and couldnt sell them.  Many patented inventions are flops.

When I worked at warehouses, I used to find abandoned boxes full of someones invention that apparently never sold very well. I either sold them at the flea market for whatever I could get or dumped them.

I think it was intended to be mass produced but maybe they only made a thousand and couldnt sell them.  Many patented inventions are flops.

When I worked at warehouses, I used to find abandoned boxes full of someones invention that apparently never sold very well. I either sold them at the flea market for whatever I could get or dumped them.

I hope you put them on T'Net first BCH 
As for the counter.
Either it's lost forever or - somewhere, is a stamping die for making the counter.
Mike

     I thank you, and my father thanks you for the shared thoughts of concern.
   It turns out that what they suspected was a kidney condition is a serious ulcer.
         Dad is doing better, and hopefully will be home sometime this week.

                                                   ~ * ~

Regarding my e-mail inquiry to Mr. Arrington, I still haven't heard back from him yet, but I want to believe he is pouring through archives searching for an answer. I just hope he doesn't reply back and say ...

                     "They never had nothing like that when I was a kid!"

The link below is to more magazine ads than I can count. Not all of them are poultry related, but, as GoodGuy said earlier, "There must be something somewhere!" Who knows? Maybe our little invention is hiding among the ads under a different disguise.     Plus the link may help in solving other "What Is It's?"

       Regarding the photo, I wonder how many of those gizmo's were sold?
          (The chickens in the photo look a little confused. Kind of like me!)

Thanks again to all,

Bob

                     http://www.gono.com/adart/new/adartcatlist.php?cat_id=8

Why so many people searching cannot find a similar item is the real mystery to me!

because the item is a broken off piece of something that is no longer made and quite possibly foreign

Is anyone absolutely certain this is a tin snip cut?
I don't buy the idea that the item is a broken off piece of something
else.  The saying..."Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Proof"
comes to mind.

If the piece is aluminum, and I believe that is what has been stated,  
that little nick could have been caused by someone trying to attach
the item to  barb wire, or could have been caused by someone removing
the item from a cage with a pliers or it could have been caused by the finder
scrapping it with a digging tool or a hundred other possibilities.  If the piece
is 2 inches wide as I believe has been stated, the little nick looks to be only
about 1/8th of an inch.  The edge labeled 3 in the magnification picture
below looks to be straight and not necessarily cut with a tin snips, in my
opinion.  I have no proof of this of course.

Is anyone absolutely certain this is a tin snip cut?
I don't buy the idea that the item is a broken off piece of something
else.  The saying..."Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Proof"
comes to mind.

LOL I respect your opinion but I dont know where you are going with this. I am NOT absolutely certain but under magnification it appears to be broken or cut with tin snips.(1)  My GUESS is that it was simply an optional clip-on that may have held the manufacturers markings. The mark left in the metal goes all the way across but was not captured on film and I agree is not obvious in the pic.

My opinion is that this item was NOT encased. I came to this conclusion after unsuccessfully trying to make a cover/casing out of cardboard. The stop tab scraped as it went around, and I found no use for the pointer (3) or the 4 tabs. The tabs were very hard to attach to the cardboard(4). If the extended piece in question was not cut or broken, what do you think the purpose would be for it?(2) In other words, in your opinion why is it even there?

Now I am wondering what these holes were for? 

I just happened to be in the neighborhood, and since we're playing "Twenty-Questions," I'm still wondering about the two "golf club shaped" indentations on the back. I'm thinking they were intended to keep the back slightly rasied off of whatever it was mounted to so that the rivet would be free and clear, thus allowing the overall setting of the device to be relatively flat. At first I believed they kept the device from touching the cage wire, but now I'm kind of wondering if it wasn't attached to something like tin? But whatever it was intended to be mounted to, I'm convinced the back of it had to be accessable, otherwise it would have been extremely difficult, (if not impossible), to bend the two top tabs down.

Of course, we can't forget about the bent part where it was "snipped." Maybe that part rested on the top edge of a tin/metal box of some kind, and the tabs were bent down by reaching into the box. So I guess this makes it "22" questions ...    ... and counting!

BENDABLEBOB  

                                                           ~ P.S. ~

               This will probably help about as much as a poke in the ribs with a sharp stick ...

                                                              But ...

Seeing as how we are all pretty well "Eggucated" by now, and considering the jillions of images and other stuff we have looked at, the only thing "Tin" or "Metal" about the average chicken cage that I can think of is the feeding trough and/or possibly some kind of a nest in the cage itself. Hmmm ... could it have been designed to mount to a feeding trough. Surely not the nest ... ?   Maybe we need to take a closer look at them/there chicken cages and see how they are really constructed. We may not know what it is, but I bet we can figure out how it mounts best.   

                                                "Chicken Cages" ... anyone? 

                                   Veto part of my last jab in the ribs ...

I did some of that draftsmen stuff in my head, and came to the personal conclusion that whoever manufactured the item would not expect whoever bought it to have to cut slots into whatever it was supposed to be mounted to. How would the person who bought it cut those slots, a drill? I don't think so. Which leads me to believe one of two things ...

1.   It was ready to go from the factory and intended to easily mount to something like a wire cage.

                                                             or ...

    2.   It was already attached/mounted to "something" when it came from the factory.

                                                            

                                            JUSTTHINKINGOUTLOUDBOB







    

But whatever it was intended to be mounted to, I'm convinced the back of it had to be accessable, otherwise it would have been extremely difficult, (if not impossible), to bend the two top tabs down.

BENDABLEBOB  

Im not sure what you mean but the 2 top tabs do not have to be bent. I clips perfectly onto a cage. I didnt bend anything.

I'm just "speculating" for a moment that it may not have been intended for a cage, but rather that the two backside tabs slipped into two slots on "something metal" and then were bent down afterwards. I realize the way it is now it just hooks on. But since we are not 100% positive yet as to what it actually is, it's still possible that one of any number of earlier suggestions may be right, and that the egg tally idea is wrong. So I'm just wondering, if it's not intended to be mounted on a cage, what other ideas may be floating around out there.    As much as anyone I want to believe it's a cage mounted egg tallying device - but I'll be danged if I can prove it! And believe me, I'm trying. The thing that's missing here is "solid evidence," and I guess that's what mystifies me most.  

Respectfully,

Bob



  

I'll bet someone in Soldotna Alaska would be able to identify it, wonder if someone in a historical society there would know?

I'm just "speculating" for a moment that it may not have been intended for a cage, but rather that the two backside tabs slipped into two slots on "something metal" and then were bent down afterwards. I realize the way it is now it just hooks on. But since we are not 100% positive yet as to what it actually is, it's still possible that one of any number of earlier suggestions may be right, and that the egg tally idea is wrong. So I'm just wondering, if it's not intended to be mounted on a cage, what other ideas may be floating around out there.    
Bob

  

I understand what you are saying but the two arrow type tabs on "top" are pretty strong and do not look as if they will bend easily by hand. They actually have a curl to them. My little cardboard experiment proved that it was very hard, almost impossible for me to attach these tabs into slots (in their current position).  The "bottom" rectangular tabs appear easier to bend but they look as if they never were.

Presently I'm putting all of my eggs in the Lou Arrington basket. I just gotta believe he's looking into it, and that we will hear back from him eventually. Here is part of the e-mail reply I received from Paul Pressley, who is vice president of The Poultry and Egg Institute. If the vice president of an institue asked me to research something, I'm pretty sure I would do it, just as I believe Mr. Arrington will ... I hope!

Bob

                                    Copy/Pasted from e-mail ...

I am copying Mr. Arrington and forwarding the photos to his attention.

(Lou, for your information, I could not directly open the two .bmp files but was successful in copying and pasting them into a  Word document).

Thank you for your interest.

Paul

Paul W. Pressley
Vice President
The Poultry & Egg Institute
U.S. Poultry & Egg Association
1530 Cooledge Road
Tucker, GA 30084-7303
678-514-1972 (direct)
770.493.9401
770-403-0510 (cell)
ppressley@poultryegg.org

 

Ok guys, I have followed this thread off and on for a couple years and I think I will throw my opinion in the hat. First I live in Anchorage, (for 34+ yrs)(Soldotna wasn't much of a town when I first went thru in 1962), and have alot of experience with Alaska household type stuff from the era of this device. Sorry to say but the chicken counter does not make any sense whatsoever to me. The Kenai peninsula was not widely settled before the 1960's. I would say the device was made in the 50's or 60's. Before WWII there were not many things commonly made from aluminum. The 50's and 60's were the golden age for aluminum, it was cheap and plentiful. The Soldotna area does have some farms but has never had any large scale poultry operations to my knowledge. Alot of rural households probably had chickens though, and like another poster said the "setters" would quickly end up as dinner. The chickens would usually run loose and have a coop to roost in at night. Nobody I know who has chickens keeps them penned separately so they would not know or care who layed how many eggs. Any wire would have been "chicken wire" the kind you see with hexagonal shaped openings. The area is mostly known for the famous Kenai river, probably the premier salmon river in the world. I have certainly had great times fishing there myself. My guess is that this is part of device for temperature control. The single most important thing about living in Alaska is staying warm. The item would have had a cover like the cardboard one above where the setting could be viewed. The tabs would have went in slots in the cover, the hooks would have attached the device to whatever it controlled, there would be a spring or a bimetal thermostat coil attached to the tab on the dial. I have seen similar dials in old electric baseboard heat registers. Less likely is that it was on a wood or coal burning stove or cooktop. I remember seeing a mechanical flue damper control that was controlled by a device similar to what I am describing though. Most homes on the Kenai Peninsula from the 50's to the 80's would have had electric or wood heat with quite a few having both to save money on the electric bill. Natural gas probably became more widely available after the mid 70's, I converted quite a few houses and apartments buildings from electric to gas heat as some homes cost up to $1000 a month to heat with electricity in the winter here, and that was in the 70's. Anyway lots of heat registers got thrown out in the woods I am sure during that era. Also if it was associated with a woodstove flue they commonly need to be replaced due to rusting out in our moist climate.  Anyway I have not tried to find pictures of what I described but I am pretty sure that's what it is. I was sure two yrs ago when I first saw the post. Hell if the original finder would tell me exactly where it was found I will hop in the truck come May when it thaws out and detect the area for the rest of the pieces.

Ok guys, I have followed this thread off and on for a couple years and I think I will throw my opinion in the hat. First I live in Anchorage, (for 34+ yrs)(Soldotna wasn't much of a town when I first went thru in 1962), and have alot of experience with Alaska household type stuff from the era of this device. Sorry to say but the chicken counter does not make any sense whatsoever to me. The Kenai peninsula was not widely settled before the 1960's. I would say the device was made in the 50's or 60's. Before WWII there were not many things commonly made from aluminum. The 50's and 60's were the golden age for aluminum, it was cheap and plentiful. The Soldotna area does have some farms but has never had any large scale poultry operations to my knowledge. Alot of rural households probably had chickens though, and like another poster said the "setters" would quickly end up as dinner. The chickens would usually run loose and have a coop to roost in at night. Nobody I know who has chickens keeps them penned separately so they would not know or care who layed how many eggs. Any wire would have been "chicken wire" the kind you see with hexagonal shaped openings. The area is mostly known for the famous Kenai river, probably the premier salmon river in the world. I have certainly had great times fishing there myself. My guess is that this is part of device for temperature control. The single most important thing about living in Alaska is staying warm. The item would have had a cover like the cardboard one above where the setting could be viewed. The tabs would have went in slots in the cover, the hooks would have attached the device to whatever it controlled, there would be a spring or a bimetal thermostat coil attached to the tab on the dial. I have seen similar dials in old electric baseboard heat registers. Less likely is that it was on a wood or coal burning stove or cooktop. I remember seeing a mechanical flue damper control that was controlled by a device similar to what I am describing though. Most homes on the Kenai Peninsula from the 50's to the 80's would have had electric or wood heat with quite a few having both to save money on the electric bill. Natural gas probably became more widely available after the mid 70's, I converted quite a few houses and apartments buildings from electric to gas heat as some homes cost up to $1000 a month to heat with electricity in the winter here, and that was in the 70's. Anyway lots of heat registers got thrown out in the woods I am sure during that era. Also if it was associated with a woodstove flue they commonly need to be replaced due to rusting out in our moist climate.  Anyway I have not tried to find pictures of what I described but I am pretty sure that's what it is. I was sure two yrs ago when I first saw the post. Hell if the original finder would tell me exactly where it was found I will hop in the truck come May when it thaws out and detect the area for the rest of the pieces.

Thank you....thank you...thank you!!!

What a wonderful breath of fresh air!!!  

Thanks for posting wwace. We have already discussed the possibility of a bimetal thermostat coil attaching to the tab. Is this the type spring you are referring to?

I studied this item very closely with a loupe and there appears to be no scratches, rust or markings to verify that the tab was ever attached to anything. The only marking I could find was on the backside and appears to be made from a rivet set.  I dont understand where it would attach.

Im willing to take a second look at this possibility. SWR has been trying to push the thermostat idea from day one. I wish you and SWR would please draw a diagram explaining both your ideas so we can take a closer look...   Thanks.


Ill send a PM to musclecar, the original finder.

Thanks WW    Certainly have to give a lot of weight to your input considering your knowledge of the location.

I just want to add that what prompted me to looks more closely at the chicken/egg angle was an article I found from Spring 1958 from the Fairbanks newspaper.  It was describing a meeting had by the local poultry raisers and the only name listed for Soldotna was Frank Mullen (I found those pictures of him and his wife at his farm in the 1950s in the Alaska archives - i think it was around page 11).

Unfortunately I'm having trouble accessing that newspaper article again - Ancestry. com is not working right - but when I am able to get to it perhaps I will be able to post it here.

Ok guys, I have followed this thread off and on for a couple years and I think I will throw my opinion in the hat. First I live in Anchorage, (for 34+ yrs)(Soldotna wasn't much of a town when I first went thru in 1962), and have alot of experience with Alaska household type stuff from the era of this device. Sorry to say but the chicken counter does not make any sense whatsoever to me.
 ...The Soldotna area does have some farms but has never had any large scale poultry operations to my knowledge. Alot of rural households probably had chickens though, and like another poster said the "setters" would quickly end up as dinner. The chickens would usually run loose and have a coop to roost in at night. Nobody I know who has chickens keeps them penned separately so they would not know or care who layed how many eggs. Any wire would have been "chicken wire" the kind you see with hexagonal shaped openings.

I never thought it was from a large poultry farm. It was found at a 50's homestead.  I can see that the chickens would have enough land to run loose but could there be a time that they would be caged?  

I would imagine this device could clip to any type chicken wire but I havent tried it. I think Goodyguy may have..

I was going to send the package back tommorrow morning. I may have to rip it open and try a few tests. Like Bramblefind says we have to give a lot of weight to your input considering your knowledge of the location.

Looking forward to any pics or diagrams you can provide..

Ok I had to switch browsers to get the article.  It was big so I am not sure how well this will post but Francis E. Mullen of Soldotna is listed with "those who raise poultry for commerical egg production".

Article is March 27, 1958-

[good]

SWR has been trying to push the thermostat idea from day one. I wish you and SWR would please draw a diagram explaining both your ideas so we can take a closer look...   Thanks.

Trying to push the thermostat idea from day one........you make it sound like having a different opinion of a yet still unidentified object is a bad thing.  

No its a very good thing.   I said while I have the item I am willing to take a second(or third) look. The most logical explanation is thermostat but I need a diagram explaining how this item would connect because I dont know.

My grandson led me to this as I am pretty good at researching things. This is a puzzler, but one guess I have is that it is an f-stop for an old camera. I am still trying to find a source to verify this. I am thinking of asking a camera expert or somebody like that.   

dial up...f-stop! hope hope hope...!

My grandson led me to this as I am pretty good at researching things. This is a puzzler, but one guess I have is that it is an f-stop for an old camera. I am still trying to find a source to verify this. I am thinking of asking a camera expert or somebody like that.  

Welcome. We hope you can help.

We have researched the camera idea. The sprocket wont line up with the holes in the film for one thing. It may be a drop plate camera counter. Youll have to try using the search option or scroll back.  http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php?action=search2

wow, it took me quite a while to read all 13 pages of post on this topic!!  Kudos to those who have spent hours and years on this! thought it was interesting that this post started back in nov of 06 and is still going!!! kand wait to find out the answer....

If the extended piece in question was not cut or broken, what do you think the purpose would be for it?(2) In other words, in your opinion why is it even there?

Okay BigCH   I have studied the photo again and I think I can
shed some light on the extended piece labeled by the red
 1  in this photo.




As I said before, I believe this item was mass produced.
It is my opinion that this item was stamped and cut from
long flat aluminum stock that was the width of the item from
top to bottom in the photo.  It would be cut to length
at point 1and point 2.  
If you flatten the tab at 1 and
match it to point 2 it looks like they would match up in
width.  I'm not good enough at photesuite to do this in
a picture, I hope you understand what I am trying to
propose.  It may have been bent up the way it is to remove
it from the die or mold that it was stamped into.  I don't know.
Does this make any sense?
I don't know why the tab was left on the item but since it was,
it had to be bent over to allow finger access to the points on
the numbered dial.  Then again I could be wrong, just speculating.
I also noticed a small scrape or grove between the 3's
that looks like it was
made after the manufacturing process.  The interesting thing
to me is that if you follow the line of the scrape it appears to
line up directly with the nick on the bent tab???

I also believe it was mass produced but I dont know why they would bend the tab over instead of just cutting it off, unless to make an optional hanging alternative. My theory also explains the lack of any manufacturers mark as it may have been on the cut off piece. The possible missing part would not have been very long.

Thanks for responding and taking the time to number the picture with your ideas. How do you put it all on the left side of the screen?

What you say makes sense and I may have to cut open the package to take another look at these new developments.

     Thanks for the welcome  guys, I am not much into posting but prefer to lurk around usually trying to expand my knowledge pool, As I said I read this post when it was new and the fact that it's still alive prompted me to post.
     
     Also it is my opinion that this piece has nothing to do with a camera, even relatively primitive mass produced cameras had much smaller more advanced machining than this large, cheaply made item reflects. Cameras tend to have better engineering than our item indicates, Remember that disposable products were not very popular until the 70's, cameras and most other similar items were constructed to last a lifetime. My idea (and SWR's) about the bimetal coil may not be correct also as the wheel would have to stay in place once it was adjusted. As there is not an easy way to see how tension would be applied to the dial a spring or other mechanism attached to a rheostat(or something else) would make more sense I think. Also there may not be any marks at attachment points because many electric devices use a thin paper "gasket" between moving parts. Also the edge of the tab on the face of the wheel may have fit into a "Bakelite" piece or something else that would not necessarily leave marks. The missing "link" is what you need to visualize. Without the missing pieces available people are tending to simplify their ideas lending them to believe it is a counter since they can see the numbers and wheel only.

     Also my congratulations on finding a poultry farmer, I sensed that as soon as I posted that somebody would prove me wrong. As the title of the article states Alaska imported 90% of our eggs and we still do. I still fail to see how or why something like this would be used in poultry farms. Imagine going into your very dark henhouse with maybe a kerosene lamp and collecting a basket of eggs, I can't see anyone fumbling around trying to adjust a counter in that circumstance. If they were keeping track of egg production they would have noted the days production once they and the eggs were safely back in the house, on paper with a pencil.  More likely would be the "Milkman" idea of how many eggs, quarts of milk, etc the customer wanted, although a milkman in Alaska would have a hard time reading the device in our long dark winters. But a large easy to read counter would make more sense, say something you could read from the milk truck, rather than making two trips to the porch thru the snow so this idea doesn't hold much water either.

     Logic dictates that this piece is part of a device used to control something. It is obvious that there was a cover and probably other pieces missing as well as whatever it was that it used to control. The tabs on the mounting plate are there to "locate" the item into the proper orientation with the rest (missing) of the device. Where it was found says that it is part of a heating control as this was and is the single most important aspect of living here. The large, finger size tabs on the wheel indicate that It was meant to be adjusted easily with your fingers. Also the 15 being next to the 1 is if you decided you want "full" heat you could just move the wheel one notch as it were rather than rotating the wheel 360 degrees. I am not that familiar with electrical engineering but I believe a rheostat will behave that way. The stamped construction with the cheap "rivet" wheel attachment is consistent with electrical devices from that era, it was meant to be adjusted once in a while but not meant to be continuously rotated. The construction would not have held up to being abused for long. The golf club shapes stamped into the back plate were there to either allow the wheel to rotate freely or to raise it slightly off the surface of its parent appliance to prevent heat (or cold) from directly contacting it, or both. Most of the limit controls for modern heating appliances have actual temperature values on the adjustment wheel but on older devices it was common to use a number or letter as it is simple to do rather than matching an actual temperature value to the appliance. Imagine setting you heater to 110 degrees but it only gets to 68 degrees, that's why they did this. It also allows the product to have some flexibility as to what you applied it too. As most of the appliances that this device would have been attached to had zero value once they were replaced it is entirely likely that it ended up in the woods.  There would have been a spot where the homesteader dumped his trash as that was the easy way back then. Also it is unlikely that many of these appliances remain as most were obsolete by the 1970's and certainly so when natural gas became available to the property.

     So anyway, I suck at paint and photoshop type stuff but I will search around some and see if I can find some pics. I look forward to your comments, thanks.

Well give me a little credit - I found that poultry farmer way back on page 11 

I am not set on this being an egg counter.  But you have to admit it looks and sounds VERY much like the item I found in the patent search (see page 12).  I don't know how much that item was used but the existence of the patent does show that someone out there thought such a thing was a very good idea.  They spent a lot of time and effort to design and patent it.

I also showed instances from two poultry publications on the 1950s where very similar sounding items were being promoted.

It might help if the original poster comes back and can pinpoint the name of the homestead he found this on.  But if it was found along the river I guess it might not be original to that area at all.

Well give me a little credit - I found that poultry farmer way back on page 11 

I am not set on this being an egg counter.  But you have to admit it looks and sounds VERY much like the item I found in the patent search (see page 12).  I don't know how much that item was used but the existence of the patent does show that someone out there thought such a thing was a very good idea.  They spent a lot of time and effort to design and patent it.

I also showed instances from two poultry publications on the 1950s where very similar sounding items were being promoted.

It might help if the original poster comes back and can pinpoint the name of the homestead he found this on.  But if it was found along the river I guess it might not be original to that area at all.

sorry I missed the page 11 post, as I said I read most of this along time ago and I just read page 13 as I made my post yesterday. Regardless trying to tie this item to what is arguably the most unlikely choice for the area is the issue I am having. If you said it was part of a salmon counter that a Dept of Fish & Game guy dropped chances are I would be 99% behind you. As heating appliances numbering tens of thousands were used/disposed of in that area I will stick by my assumptions for now. Frankly it would be nice if somebody could prove it's identity without doubt but as this was part of a valueless device(after it's lifespan)and(in my opinion)there is not much cause to flood the internet with info on it. Thanks again for reading my opinions

                                           "NEWS FLASH!"

 
Please note dad admits changes have occurred over the years, and that text references on patents refer to tallying devices being attached to cages, but he strongly believes that any kind of cage mounted egg counting devise was not used on an everyday basis on everyday farms who sometimes had tens of thousands of laying hens. He said there was just no (mass produced) "need" for it!  A "setter" was a "setter," and that's how my grandfather and everone else in the county "culled" (got rid of) their non producing hens.

                                                   However ...

Dad added that most poultry farmers (then and now) were/are members of various poultry organizations whose primary role was to find better ways of maintaining healthier chickens for the sole purpose of producing more eggs. These poultry organizations did all kinds of research that can only be described as "Poultry Science."  Dad said that my grandfather, as well as every other poultryman in the county who was a member, were required to provide ten randomly selected "layer's." Dad emphasied this randon selection because it was intended to fall into the overall percentage factor previously mentioned. And then the poultry organization would keep these "layer's" under close observation for about a year, keeping track primarily of their egg production, and accordingly would arrive at which farmer was raising the best laying hens. And when this was determined (whether it was the feed the farmer was using or whatever) they would breed and cross-breed the best of the best hens until they had the highest egg producing hens that money could buy. Note: Dad said that the same particular feed mix used by a particular farmer was the only thing allowed to be given to his particular hens. The farmer's/members were also required in various ways to participate in the testing. He said members had to pay fees for this type of research, and it just so happened that my grandfather's hens took first place one year, and within a period of time they were developing and hatching chicks directly from my grandfather's "strain." (I intend to research this and see if I can find any records).

                                              Bottom Line ... ?

Dad is strongly of the opinion that most of these so called "Tallying Devices" were intended for labratory, (Poultry Organization) use and to him this would be a very logical place to search for a possible identification.
 
BOB

    

Ok in an attempt to steer this forever away from the egg counter idea I totally agree with Bob's grandfather. There was never any need for a counter attached to a cage. Just imagine sending the boys out to gather the eggs. One child idly twirls the counter on hen#8, counters 2, 5 and 7 get bumped or pecked or whatever. What happens when it gets to 14? And 15? And over what time period are we inquiring? And why? Much easier to write down production numbers in a journal or a columnar pad if in a more serious instance. Face it, somebody would have to write it down at some point if they wanted to keep track. Easier to just write it down rather than taking the actual steps of mass producing something that is not needed, attaching it to a cage where it's going to get full of chicken crap (they aint clean) adjusting it as needed and finally transposing the indicated values to paper. KISS method (keep it simple stupid) points to something else entirely, the very first post mentioned a counter of some sort, so that is what stuck with you guys. I think Mech was the first to call it what it actually is: A part of a device that indicates a setting thanks again

Here's one that says it is a tallying device - "to maintain an accurate tally and record of the productivity of hens ...." and it attaches to a cage -


http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=udhPAAAAEBAJ

                                                         ~ * ~

Since my name was mentioned, I feel it is only proper that I should respond. And please understand I am not trying to stuff an egg counter into everyone's Christmas stocking. But from all of the "photo evidence" produced so far, I still say Bramblefind's discoveries make the most sense. I have included her first one here, and will follow with the second one in my next post.

SBB

I think the reason we cannot find an exact match because this is a patented invention that was not needed.

 

Ok here is a snippet page from the 1956 Poultry Tribune that I referenced before-

And here is her second one confirming again that egg counters were a real deal. And as to how such a device ended up in Alaska, I can't say. But we do know those homesteaders came from someplace, and maybe our little mystery invention just went along for the ride. No one is saying with absoloute certainty there were massive poultry farms in Soldotna, only that the most compelling (documented) evidence so far surely must have some merit.

SBB

I think the reason we cannot find an exact match because this is a patented invention that was not needed.

 

Ok here is a snippet page from the 1956 Poultry Tribune that I referenced before-

And here is her second one confirming again that egg counters were a real deal. And as to how such a device ended up in Alaska, I can't say. But we do know those homesteaders came from someplace, and maybe our little mystery invention just went along for the ride. No one is saying with absoloute certainty there were massive poultry farms in Soldotna, only that the most compelling (documented) evidence so far surely must have some merit.

SBB

Regardless of your fine research, the item we have was mass produced indicating it was needed. Mass produced items typically mean tens of thousands or more, think of the machining, tool & die required to stamp these out by the thousands per day probably. If chicken egg counters were mass produced everyone would have a couple laying around and we would most likey know which came first: "The chicken or the egg"

I've been thinking about this for a while but I finally just did it - I sent an email to Peggy Mullen on the Soldotna City Council.  I think she is part of the Mullen family who were original homesteaders (and had the poultry farm). 

If I get anything back I will post it.

And while I'm at it I might as well post this link to the "egg counter" device I found with the "bendable tabs" on the back of it.

Everyone knows I'm like a bloodhound and will follow any trail that has a bonified scent to it. And I will do the same with anyone who can show me one iota of true-blue "evidence," (Image is best), showing that the device is in any way, shape, or form directly, or indirectly, related to anything "electronic," as opposed to it being a simple, manually operated invention. Again, none of what I or others have produced "proves" it is an egg tallying device, only that so far this is where the best "evidence" has led us.

SBB

                                 http://www.freepatentsonline.com/2787420.pdf  

       Logic dictates that this piece is part of a device used to control something. It is obvious that there was a cover and probably other pieces missing as well as whatever it was that it used to control. The tabs on the mounting plate are there to "locate" the item into the proper orientation with the rest (missing) of the device. Where it was found says that it is part of a heating control as this was and is the single most important aspect of living here. The large, finger size tabs on the wheel indicate that It was meant to be adjusted easily with your fingers. Also the 15 being next to the 1 is if you decided you want "full" heat you could just move the wheel one notch as it were rather than rotating the wheel 360 degrees. I am not that familiar with electrical engineering but I believe a rheostat will behave that way. The stamped construction with the cheap "rivet" wheel attachment is consistent with electrical devices from that era, it was meant to be adjusted once in a while but not meant to be continuously rotated. The construction would not have held up to being abused for long. The golf club shapes stamped into the back plate were there to either allow the wheel to rotate freely or to raise it slightly off the surface of its parent appliance to prevent heat (or cold) from directly contacting it, or both. Most of the limit controls for modern heating appliances have actual temperature values on the adjustment wheel but on older devices it was common to use a number or letter as it is simple to do rather than matching an actual temperature value to the appliance. Imagine setting you heater to 110 degrees but it only gets to 68 degrees, that's why they did this. It also allows the product to have some flexibility as to what you applied it too. As most of the appliances that this device would have been attached to had zero value once they were replaced it is entirely likely that it ended up in the woods.  There would have been a spot where the homesteader dumped his trash as that was the easy way back then. Also it is unlikely that many of these appliances remain as most were obsolete by the 1970's and certainly so when natural gas became available to the property.

     So anyway, I suck at paint and photoshop type stuff but I will search around some and see if I can find some pics. I look forward to your comments, thanks.

Thanks for responding but your logic is seriously flawed.  We have been over this all before.  You said you are not familiar with electronic engineering. (I was hoping you were).  I am an HVAC/refrigeration technician for 30 years and I see no way possible that this simple device could have attached to anything else. The sprocket wheel is connected with a simple rivet. There is no way for it to connect to a control.

Im not sure if you understand, but think of the knobs on your metal detector that may go from 1-15. The knob has to have a shaft to connect to the electronic control. WE HAVE NO SHAFT and there is no way this rivet can connect to a shaft.  As Bob says there is no way, shape, or form this is directly related to anything electronic. That is why I asked you to draw a diagram explaining how this would be done. And please dont say it can be attached by the tabs.

I agree that the golf club sized thingies are to allow the wheel to rotate freely or to raise it slightly off the surface and this was realized long ago. This is another clue going against an electronic control. A control that is attached permanently by the shaft does not need these thingies to keep it raised. My experiment with wire fence showed that these angled golf club things made sure the bottom rivet would never touch the fence so as to spin freely. It also stiffened the entire assembly keeping it tight on the fence wire..

Ill copy and paste Bobs quote as it is appropriate: Everyone knows I'm like a bloodhound and will follow any trail that has a bonified scent to it. And I will do the same with anyone who can show me one iota of true-blue "evidence," (Image is best), showing that the device is in any way, shape, or form directly, or indirectly, related to anything "electronic," as opposed to it being a simple, manually operated invention. Again, none of what I or others have produced "proves" it is an egg tallying device, only that so far this is where the best "evidence" has led us.



Again thanks for posting and your thoughts are always welcome but until someone can draw a decent diagram showing how this would attach to a heating control, or any control for that matter, we have to rule it out.

Thanks for responding but your logic is seriously flawed.  We have been over this all before.  You said you are not familiar with electronic engineering. (I was hoping you were).  I am an HVAC/refrigeration technician for 30 years and I see no way possible that this simple device could have attached to anything else. The sprocket wheel is connected with a simple rivet. There is no way for it to connect to a control.

I'm not sure if you understand, but think of the knobs on your metal detector that may go from 1-15. The knob has to have a shaft to connect to the electronic control. WE HAVE NO SHAFT and there is no way this rivet can connect to a shaft.  As Bob says there is no way, shape, or form this is directly related to anything electronic. That is why I asked you to draw a diagram explaining how this would be done. And please don't say it can be attached by the tabs.

I agree that the golf club sized thingies are to allow the wheel to rotate freely or to raise it slightly off the surface and this was realized long ago. This is another clue going against an electronic control. A control that is attached permanently by the shaft does not need these thingies to keep it raised. My experiment with wire fence showed that these angled golf club things made sure the bottom rivet would never touch the fence so as to spin freely. It also stiffened the entire assembly keeping it tight on the fence wire..

Ill copy and paste Bobs quote as it is appropriate: Everyone knows I'm like a bloodhound and will follow any trail that has a bonified scent to it. And I will do the same with anyone who can show me one iota of true-blue "evidence," (Image is best), showing that the device is in any way, shape, or form directly, or indirectly, related to anything "electronic," as opposed to it being a simple, manually operated invention. Again, none of what I or others have produced "proves" it is an egg tallying device, only that so far this is where the best "evidence" has led us.



Again thanks for posting and your thoughts are always welcome but until someone can draw a decent diagram showing how this would attach to a heating control, or any control for that matter, we have to rule it out.
[/quote]

     Seriously flawed logic huh, that's almost an insult. First and foremost, the simple fact that the wheel lacks a zero indicates that it is not a device used to count anything, this is simple logic. I looked up a bunch of the egg counter patents and they all included zero on their counting devices, as does the one pictured above. I do not think there is a numeric system without a null value. Also the numbers 1-14 and or 15 do not seem to relate to anything that anyone would typically count or keep track of. If I designed an egg counter it would be base twelve and have at least the capacity to count to 144, twelve dozen.
     Also I never said that I was 100% sure it was part of an electric device. Just that it is the most likely. Heater, yeah again the most likely choice, heating devices would outnumber refrigerators at least 10 to 1. If it was I will attempt describe how the assembly would be as I picture it.  I never said that the wheel was attached at the hub/rivet. Here are some examples of how it could have been part of a mechanism electric or not: The little tab may have had a "bakelite" or similar material block that slid onto the tab. Attached to this would be a copper contact that had a wire attachment tab and a contact that would rest against a rheostat(or maybe potentiometer?) that would be either attached to another mounting plate/bracket that resided concentrically above the numbered wheel. As you moved the dial the contact would rotate against rest of the potentiometer. The single thing that tells me it is likely electric is the fact the the 15 (highest setting)is accessible from the 1 (lowest) position without rotating the dial 360 degrees. Potentiometers work in this fashion and it would be a desireable feature. Or it could have been assembled in such a way so the tab stuck up and into a slot in the potentiometer control arm. Most Potentiometers cannot be rotated more than 360 degrees, this is to keep the wire on the control arm from twisting up and eventually breaking. the The holes in the wheel mounting plate would have locater pins from the next assembly in them so it would be properly positioned. The device cover would be a cap that snapped over the assembly with the three tabs in slots or notches properly locating the device. Alternately it could have just resided inside an appliance with the viewing opening and adjustment wheel opening incorporated into the appliance itself. Another scenario is that there was a coil, spring or linkage that fit over the tab and remotely controlled the electrics. Also I mentioned that it may not have been electric but a totally mechanical device that may control a damper or similar item. I have described at least 4 or 5 different ways for it to be used that are all well thought out, imo, if my logic is flawed so be it. Any way I guess I will learn photoshop and paint to help you visualize what I describe.

    First and foremost, the simple fact that the wheel lacks a zero indicates that it is not a device used to count anything, this is simple logic. I looked up a bunch of the egg counter patents and they all included zero on their counting devices, as does the one pictured above. I do not think there is a numeric system without a null value. Also the numbers 1-14 and or 15 do not seem to relate to anything that we would typically count or keep track of.
    

I didnt read your entire post yet but so far I disagree completely. Not true. It may not say zero but it certainly has a zero position. The numbers 1-15 could be the amount of eggs laid in a 2 week period.

    Also I never said that I was 100% sure it was part of an electric device. Just that it is the most likely. Heater, yeah again the most likely choice, heating devices would outnumber refrigerators at least 10 to 1. If it was I will attempt describe how the assembly would be as I picture it.  I never said that the wheel was attached at the hub/rivet. Here are some examples of how it could have been part of a mechanism electric or not: The little tab may have had a "bakelite" or similar material block that slid onto the tab. Attached to this would be a copper contact that had a wire attachment tab and a contact that would rest against a rheostat(or maybe potentiometer?) that would be either attached to another mounting plate/bracket that resided concentrically above the numbered wheel. As you moved the dial the contact would rotate against rest of the potentiometer. The single thing that tells me it is likely electric is the fact the the 15 (highest setting)is accessible from the 1 (lowest) position without rotating the dial 360 degrees. Potentiometers work in this fashion and it would be a desireable feature. Or it could have been assembled in such a way so the tab stuck up and into a slot in the potentiometer control arm. Most Potentiometers cannot be rotated more than 360 degrees, this is to keep the wire on the control arm from twisting up and eventually breaking. the The holes in the wheel mounting plate would have locater pins from the next assembly in them so it would be properly positioned. The device cover would be a cap that snapped over the assembly with the three tabs in slots or notches properly locating the device. Alternately it could have just resided inside an appliance with the viewing opening and adjustment wheel opening incorporated into the appliance itself. Another scenario is that there was a coil, spring or linkage that fit over the tab and remotely controlled the electrics. Also I mentioned that it may not have been electric but a totally mechanical device that may control a damper or similar item. I have described at least 4 or 5 different ways for it to be used that are all well thought out, imo, if my logic is flawed so be it. Any way I guess I will learn photoshop and paint to help you visualize what I describe.

Like I said my profession is HVAC technician which means Heating Ventilation and Air Conditioning.   Do you have a camera? Im really trying to understand. Intimer tried to describe the same operation, I believe. You maybe could make a pencil drawing and take a picture or scan it.

I agree that logically this is a contol dial but it just doesnt connect like anything I have ever seen in the trade.

Like I said my profession is HVAC technician which means Heating Ventilation and Air Conditioning.   Do you have a camera? Im really trying to understand. Intimer tried to describe the same operation, I believe. You maybe could make a pencil drawing and take a picture or scan it.

I agree that logically this is a contol dial but it just doesnt connect like anything I have ever seen in the trade.
[/quote]

I know what HVAC is, I have been a contractor for 34 yrs. Before 1990 I did alot of plumbing, my uncle ran the plumbing side of our business and we did many heating system conversions, new homes and small commercial projects. Now although I have a general contractor license we only do tile, stone & concrete polishing, almost all commercial. I guess I have to learn photoshop or paint to help

    Seriously flawed logic huh, that's almost an insult.

No sir. I am not insulting you. Dont go there. We are simply stating opinions. I have stated that your input is welcome and I thank you for posting. I am only giving you my professional opinion. You admitted that you are not familiar with electronic engineering.

     Also I never said that I was 100% sure it was part of an electric device.

I realize that.

      I never said that the wheel was attached at the hub/rivet.

The wheel is attached to the rivet. That is a nondisputed fact.

[

      I never said that the wheel was attached at the hub/rivet.

The wheel is attached to the rivet. That is a nondisputed fact.
[/quote]
What I meant is that the hub was attached to something besides the wheel

I know what HVAC is, I have been a contractor for 34 yrs. Before 1990 I did alot of plumbing, my uncle ran the plumbing side of our business and we did many heating system conversions, new homes and small commercial projects.

OK great I misunderstood when you stated you where not familiar with electronic engineering.

Like I said. Thanks for posting. I am here to learn. I will study your post when I get more time.. Just say Im a little slow.   Dont get any hard feeling here its not necessary.

What I meant is that the hub was attached to something besides the wheel

So you are saying that you believe the control may have attached to the face, and not the backside?

how do I highlight quotes?

So you are saying that you believe the control attaches to the face, and not the backside?

correct sir

the guts of the device would reside in front of the wheel

So you are saying that you believe the control attaches to the face, and not the backside?

correct sir

OK thats what I thought. That would be the only way but in this scenario wouldnt the numbers be obscured?  I will have to make a cardboard cover and try it. This is the same thing intimer tried to describe reply #1058 and he also became upset at me for not accepting the idea. So maybe its me. I always figured the tab was a stop, nothing else. I apologize to both of you if I didnt understand.  I will try to study it.    The best way to test these ideas would be to try it or draw it.

how do I highlight quotes?

Its tricky. You have to leave [/quote] before and after.

If the tab was in a slot of the potentiometer control arm it would not obscure the viewing window. My biggest issue with this item is it's orientation, as we tend to orient things vertically. The reason I thought it went to a baseboard heat register is that the controls are typically on the right end and access is tight vertically but the size seems correct from what I remember.

Heres intimers diagram with the same idea reply #863.  I dont know if it helps.

                                  ~ "Dueling Banjos Anyone?" ~

wwace ~

Seriously, you have my undivided attention, and I appreciate the input. I have read every word of your recent post's. However, I am still having some difficulty visualizing where the contacts and/or connections, etc., might hook up.

You can ask anyone on this website and they will tell you I am as bad as it gets with imagery - sizing - etc., etc. But something you might try, is to print out an image of the device, and then draw your ideas on top of it with red ink, and then scan - save - and send it back to us. Of course, this is just a suggestion, but it shouldn't be too difficult to do. (If I can do it - anybody can do it!) LOL  

                                               Thanks ...

                      Your researcher compadre for a common cause.

                                              SODABOB

 

 

If the tab was in a slot of the potentiometer control arm it would not obscure the viewing window. My biggest issue with this item is it's orientation, as we tend to orient things vertically. The reason I thought it went to a baseboard heat register is that the controls are typically on the right end and access is tight vertically but the size seems correct from what I remember.

WW, previously I put a cover over the numbered face and cut out a viewing window for the numbers. In this scenario, I didnt understand the need for the pointer.

If this were for a heater, it has no off position or zero. (like you said earlier)I think this would be dangerous. If someone tried to turn it counterclockwise to lower it they may hit #15 by accident.

Believe it or not, I am starting to like your idea of a heat thermostat/rheostat WW because its most logical. I just cant figure how it fits.

                                 ~ "Dueling Banjos Anyone?" ~

wwace ~

Seriously, you have my undivided attention, and I appreciate the input. I have read every word of your recent post's. However, I am still having some difficulty visualizing where the contacts and/or connections, etc., might hook up.

You can ask anyone on this website and they will tell you I am as bad as it gets with imagery - sizing - etc., etc. But something you might try, is to print out an image of the device, and then draw your ideas on top of it with red ink, and then scan - save - and send it back to us. Of course, this is just a suggestion, but it shouldn't be too difficult to do. (If I can do it - anybody can do it!) LOL  

                                               Thanks ...

                      Your researcher compadre for a common cause.

                                              SODABOB

 

 

I didnt even know how to use a computer when I first joined TN. My brother had to do it for me. Its all a great learning experience.

Heres intimers diagram with the same idea reply #863.  I dont know if it helps.

on the right track but there really isn't any need for a connecting rod as the tab fitting into a slot of the rheostat(whatever) as that is the simplest method. also the construction appears to weak to drive a timer motor or whatever.

A key feature to the device is the little indents on the back of the wheel mounting plate. They are there to prevent wobble in the wheel causing the control arm to disengage from the tab imo

Heres intimers diagram with the same idea reply #863.  I dont know if it helps.

on the right track but there really isn't any need for a connecting rod as the tab fitting into a slot of the rheostat(whatever) as that is the simplest method. also the construction appears to weak to drive a timer motor or whatever.
A key feature to the device is the little indents on the back of the wheel mounting plate. They are there to prevent wobble in the wheel causing the control arm to disengage from the tab imo

Yes the diagram in the way intimer drew it will not work but the idea is the same I think.

If the tab was in a slot of the potentiometer control arm it would not obscure the viewing window. My biggest issue with this item is it's orientation, as we tend to orient things vertically. The reason I thought it went to a baseboard heat register is that the controls are typically on the right end and access is tight vertically but the size seems correct from what I remember.

WW, previously I put a cover over the numbered face and cut out a viewing window for the numbers. In this scenario, I didnt understand the need for the pointer.

If this were for a heater, it has no off position or zero. (like you said earlier)I think this would be dangerous. If someone tried to turn it counterclockwise to lower it they may hit #15 by accident.

Off would be controlled by a secondary switch, line voltage thermostat, circuit breaker or simply plugging it in and yeah I thought of the danger also but most heating devices have some other overheat protection. Also I have seen rheostats with detents which if equipped would make setting the dial have a "feel to it" but I admit this info seems a little fishy

the adjustment with the finger tip could set something else like a thermostat? (not really sure)
but because there are no stops for each number it may flow to set another device that controls heat, cold or other...?          

i'm just guessing but old refrigs. is still a possibility in my opinion.

The stop tab is very short but Ill try to look at an old heating thermostat I have at my warehouse tommorrow. It may be easier to visualize this thing.

I think the stop tab would ride here.

You would think it would leave some circular marks on the wheel face and the coil would obscure the numbers, I think.    Maybe someone can try to photoshop this coil onto the wheel face.
Put the stoptab at the arrow point.

I gotta go LOL. This thang is taking over my life.

The stop tab is very short but Ill try to look at an old heating thermostat I have at my warehouse tommorrow. It may be easier to visualize this thing.

I think the stop tab would ride here. [ ERROR: SPECIFIED ATTACHMENT MISSING ]

You would think it would leave some circular marks on the wheel face and the coil would obscure the numbers, I think.    Maybe someone can try to photoshop this coil onto the wheel face.
Put the stoptab at the arrow point.

I gotta go LOL. This thang is taking over my life.

there would have been an isolator gasket made from a stiff paper, to prevent the wheel from interfering with the coil operation

the adjustment with the finger tip could set something else like a thermostat? (not really sure)
but because there are no stops for each number it may flow to set another device that controls heat, cold or other...?          

i'm just guessing but old refrigs. is still a possibility in my opinion.

I had thought of frig's also as the aluminum reminded me of the cheap freezer compartments inside the ones when I was a kid, but I dont recall or see a need for 15 settings, 5 would about cover the spectrum

the adjustment with the finger tip could set something else like a thermostat? (not really sure)
but because there are no stops for each number it may flow to set another device that controls heat, cold or other...?          

i'm just guessing but old refrigs. is still a possibility in my opinion.

I had thought of frig's also as the aluminum reminded me of the cheap freezer compartments inside the ones when I was a kid, but I dont recall or see a need for 15 settings, 5 would about cover the spectrum

We thought of old Frigidaires also but there is no way of attaching the dial to the control. This bimetal coil idea, of yours and WW's, was not used on refrigerators as far as I know.



Keep in mind this has a pointer and I think that means an open face.  As soon as somebody can photoshop my bimetal coil on the face of this thing, we will see if its feasable.
Unfortunately my printer just died. I could have cut out the coil and tried it.

Hey ... I'm still here and wondering what they did along these "researching" lines before the invention of computers?  ... Write letters? ... Can you imagine?  Please don't respond to my dumb question, as I already know the answer ... (sort of).

                                                      Thanks!
                                                            
                                                        

                                              PRECOMPUTERBOB

i don't see the coil you r image as directly connected to the bent up piece at #15. rather the finger tip would select a nuymber. that transferred that reqwuest via a direct connector to a device that activated a temperture sensitve....something.... heck just thinking the tab bent up was served as a connecting point telling it to adjust  as requested by the i-14 setting.

yeah refrigs usually not that high number.... so just WAG i suppose... excuse me on the way through!!!

I think a bi-metal strip or element would be a better application than a coil

How would the tab on a round dial turn a straight bimetal strip?  The bent up tab is the only connecting point and it moves in a circle.

A bimetal strip would need to connect on the bottom and we dont have anything on the bottom but a rivet and no shaft.   http://www.aithermostat.com/bimetallic-thermostat.html

i don't see the coil you r image as directly connected to the bent up piece at #15. rather the finger tip would select a nuymber. that transferred that reqwuest via a direct connector to a device that activated a temperture sensitve....something.... heck just thinking the tab bent up was served as a connecting point telling it to adjust  as requested by the i-14 setting.

yeah refrigs usually not that high number.... so just WAG i suppose... excuse me on the way through!!!

The bent up tab is the only connecting point and it moves in a circle and has to connect somewhere in wwace's theory. As far as I know, (in wwaces theory)the finger would select a number and the tab would connect to a bimetal coil spring at the red arrow point, tightening or loosening.  As the temperature changes, the spring retracts or expands tilting the mercury bulb.

I think in fact the finger control on a thermostat turns an entire plate that has the bimetal coil fastened to it. But the numbers on our dial face would be concealed if the coil was on top. The bimetal coil (14) is usually under the dial as shown. 32 is a wrench to make fine adjustments (calibrations). In the HVAC trade we just install these things and calibrate them, we dont design them.  http://www.hometips.com/how-it-works/thermostats.html

I think a bi-metal strip or element would be a better application than a coil

How would the tab on a round dial turn a straight bimetal strip?  The bent up tab is the only connecting point and it moves in a circle.

A bimetal strip would need to connect on the bottom and we dont have anything on the bottom but a rivet and no shaft.   http://www.aithermostat.com/bimetallic-thermostat.html

I think we've visited this before. Like I said, before...there was something more than likely something under the rivet that turned when the finger dial was turned. That closed/opened the distance of the bi-metal strip or capillary device. Similar to a rotary thermostat

Yes we have been over this before and I have inspected the bottom and unfortunately I can find no evidence that anything was ever under the rivet. At first I was exited to find a circular mark (red arrow), that upon closer examination, was most likely made by the rivet set. If there was a shaft coupling under the rivet, it may be a different ball game. Observe the scratches in one direction and nothing circular. IMO there is nothing on the bottom but a cheap rivet that has loosened up a bit..

                                     Pardon my draftsmenship ... but

     Here's how I visualize the device if mounted to a metal housing/plate of some kind.

I can't speak for where the so called contacts/connections might be ... but this might give us some idea of how it could mount to something. Please note that the long tabs are tucked into slots, as well as the "snipped" part, plus there are now screws in the mystery holes.  

                                                Just me being me ...

                                                        

                                                         BOB

P.S. In response to BigCy's mention of the two "curved" tabs on the underside, "maybe" they were flat to begin with, and ... as he said ... "optional." Aren't you proud of me? I reduced the image size all by myself!   You're welcome ... LOL

                                    Pardon my draftsmenship ... but

     Here's how I visualize the device if mounted to a metal housing/plate of some kind.

I can't speak for where the so called contacts/connections might be ... but this might give us some idea of how it could mount to something. Please note that the long tabs are tucked into slots, as well as the "snipped" part, plus there are now screws in the mystery holes.  

                                                Just me being me ...

                                                        

                                                         BOB

Great drawing Bob. It seems to have different mounting options. Dont forget the 2 tabs underneath. If this was a frigidaire, it may mount this way. But it cannot be because there is no shaft connection on the bottom and if something was mounted to the face, it would obscure the pointer. Just my opinion.

                                                 ~ P.S. ~

                This is the part I like best where I get to contradict myself ...

My intent with the drawing was not to waste time, nor to test anyone's intelligence ...

                                                But rather ...

To draw attention to the two flat tabs on the left. It doesn't make sense to me that the manufacturer would bother with these tabs when they could just as easily have included two more screw holes.

                                                Thus ...

     The two flat tabs/flanges must serve some "other", more important purpose.

                                              But what?

                                                  

                                       IDUNNOEITHERBOB

                               The two flat tabs/flanges must serve some "other", more important purpose.

                                              But what?

                                                  

                                       IDUNNOEITHERBOB

Its for exactly what you described in the drawing (for metal or cage) or it was to be bent over for added strength. I dont think there is any disagreement in the purpose of these flat rectangular tabs, nor do we have any differing opinions.

ADDED: I might add that when I tried to insert the 2 flat tabs along with the 2 hook tabs, it was not easy.  I can only hook all 4 tabs easily to a cage or fence. You maybe can see that the top back tabs are stiff and curved. There may be a reason.  The golf club thingies add strength, support and keep the rivet from touching anything. They are angled to make sure they touch some part of the wire cage. The broken part may simply have been a hanging option with the manufacturers name.

I also believe it was mass produced but I dont know why they would bend the tab over instead of just cutting it off, unless to make an optional hanging alternative. My theory also explains the lack of any manufacturers mark as it may have been on the cut off piece. The possible missing part would not have been very long.

Thanks for responding and taking the time to number the picture with your ideas. How do you put it all on the left side of the screen?

What you say makes sense and I may have to cut open the package to take another look at these new developments.

How do you put it all on the left side of the screen?

Okay, I am answering this one question before I read all the
responses that have been posted.
I simply hit enter when my sentences reach the edge of my
screen.   I get totally frustrated with having to use the
whatever you call it bar on the bottom of my screen to read
these forums.  When someone posts a extra large picture
or message, on the system I am on I have to continually
move the bar back and forth to read the posts.  Very very
very frustrating.  I choose to type about 70 percent of my
screen and then hit enter.  That way you don't have to
deal with the hassel of moving your screen.   I wish everyone
would adopt this method.

Okay I have read all the posts since I posted my idea's yesterday.
I am looking at this item from my limited manufacturing experience.
I don't believe there is anything missing or broken off from this
and I don't believe this attached to anything other than fence
or cage wire. The V hook prongs scream wire mounted to me
and the slim tabs scream bendable securing tabs.
For some reason I am reminded of government fence mounted
markers I remember from my long ago childhood.
I will go now, I have read every post and my interest has again
grown thin. This item screams simplicity to me and I get
headaches from reading all the complicated speculation.
Good luck and good hunting, I am putting this thread on
ignore for the simple reason of maintaining my sanity.
I will check in in a few months and again start gobbling
ibuprophren.  Someone please  please please proof!
It is simply a wire or fence mounted count indicator for some
as yet unknown purpose.

No green check yet 

I still think prototype egg counter is the most likely ID. The invention became obsolete prior to mass production. I can't find any of the at least 3 egg counting patents.

Regarding production of the aluminum dial egg counter - I found this "Jensen Mfg" in Orange, CA  1956 Poultry Tribune:

That small half picture really looks like the thing.

Regarding production of the aluminum dial egg counter - I found this "Jensen Mfg" in Orange, CA  1956 Poultry Tribune:

That's it  Well done Bramblefind 

Dear Lord, 14 pages and finally solved?!!  That sure does look like it.  Shame its in a snippet view.  So it seems it was made by Jensen Mfg.  Great work Bramblefind.  You have become a great asset to Tnet with your searching abilities.  

Banner ID.  

Here's another listing from a book search.

My Banner nomination is in 

"Attaches to any wire cage in seconds. Different ways to use. Free circular."

I'm convinced.  Cased closed.  

 Aw stop it.  I'm shy.  

Thank you    I hope this is enough for sufficient proof (for everyone).

Aw stop it.  I'm shy. 

Thank you    I hope this is enough for sufficient proof (for everyone).

You have just solved one of the greatest Tnet mysteries. 

Now, can you please solve this one.  http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,91892.0.html

Yes we have been over this before and I have inspected the bottom and unfortunately I can find no evidence that anything was ever under the rivet. At first I was exited to find a circular mark (red arrow), that upon closer examination, was most likely made by the rivet set. If there was a shaft coupling under the rivet, it may be a different ball game. Observe the scratches in one direction and nothing circular. IMO there is nothing on the bottom but a cheap rivet that has loosened up a bit..

Alternatively, there is also no evidence of this device being a chicken/egg counter. Just massive amounts of speculation for the past few hundred posts.

At the very least, allow varying opinions without prejudice. Nobody has definite data, as of yet.

Do you still think its a thermostat? I really tried to accommodate differing opinions without prejudice. I truly tried.  They just didnt fit and I tried to show that. I dont think you are being fair to me with that comment. I took the time to present images and research what I knew was a dead end.  I believe I was open to everyones opinions, including yours.

Awesome Job!


Thanks also to Sodabottlebob for getting us on the poultry track

Regarding production of the aluminum dial egg counter - I found this "Jensen Mfg" in Orange, CA  1956 Poultry Tribune:

I have seen Bramblefind do this before and she is a great researcher IMO. Great ID Bramblefind!!!
 

This will forever be remembered as an example of great perseverance and teamwork, another TN legend, Beekrock, Squirrel Bait, Piggnuts, The Farley Coins and the Jensen Egg Counter.

Wait til Bob see this.

My Banner nomination is in  

I really believe we should give an award for a few of the best IDs. Not banner but some kind of recognition. And I vote Bramblefind on this one!! I guess you can vote if you feel the same.  Just click on post #1321 moderator and vote award Bramblefind.

                                      ~ APPLAUSE ~

                               ~ STANDING OVATION ~

                                ~ CONGRATULATIONS ~

                                 ~ EGGSTRAODINARY ~

                          ~ SPEACH ~ SPEACH ~ SPEACH ~


Bramblefind ~

We always suspected your last name stood for something important, now we know why!

     But now you have to tell us "The rest of the story."  Who? What? When? Where?

                                   But most importantly ...

                                             HOW ?

bob

 

Well... Holy shlt.   

Nice work Bramblefind!

The snippet says: In Riverside county, California, a cage operator maintains a 70 percent average lay a year around with a flock turnover of around 100 percent. The only information that he has on his birds is the production for a two-(week)

Its everything we thought it was.


Id like to see the back. It looks as if the back tab is bent up. Can someone buy the book? How much is it?

WOW! I am impressed not only with the convincing answer, but all the hard work so many of you put into this.  I gave up trying a long time ago, glad nobody else did.  GOOD JOB ALL!

MC