What are the current theories?

What do you think?  Was the gold really in a cave at Victorio Peak, as Doc Noss stated?  Did the government get the gold in the 1960'2 or 1970's?

[The Truth!!]

 !!!? ?No! Theories? ?!!!!
The Truth!!? ?
Doc Noss's Grandson, one of them, is my New Mexico partner!
I have seen some documents that would really rattle your cage ( To the very! foundation, too! ) !
I have heard from some of the actual particpates!
Our Govt. "? ' of the People !? "....
Really, Scary,? ?:-?  Believe me!

Might as well hang this one up.

The Victorio Peak treasure is gone forever.  It might be interesting to go to the peak one day, maybe peer inside the cave, but that is subject to the control and permission of the Commanding Officer, White Sands Missile Range, and that fact alone is part and parcel to how the treasure disappeared in the first place.

 

if you want to see some of this gold i hear the u.s.treasury just came out with some new gold coins,,, and you know it came from here. or somewhere else they took over.......

["FIND"!!]

? If you want a real good look at this "FIND"!!?
Get the book, "100 Tons of Gold" !
This book is full of "factual" facts!
It was also BANNED? by Uncle Sam!
And !
It is just now coming back on to the market!

Not theory, but fact. Former air force personnel have come forward to confirm that as amaterur cave hunters, they found the cave and gold, then reported their find to the base commander. An army unit, of unknown origin, then excavared the cave and it's contents. Subsequent visits to the cave by researchers have found it empty of it's valuable contents, finding dead army battery packs deep in the cave. The gov't will not confirm that it seized the gold. They only remaining bits of that treasure are those that Doc removed and stashed elsewhere, including the chest. This story is a learning experience for those inclined to publicize a large find. Dreamers, if it makes you happy then keep looking!

"Uncle Sam" can not leagally ban the printing of any material.  what happens is they simply go out of print.

[ANYTHING it wants!]

cederrat:
Really!
Our U.S.Govt can and has done everything and ANYTHING it wants!
Including killing it's citizens!
IE:
ASK: Frank Olson, how he happened to fall out of a 13 story NY Hotel, locked dbl panel, window
Since you obviously can't, just go to & look up the story on the "Net"
ASK: The Enquirer Magazine [/b] why they suddenly Stopped?
printing their voice lie detector results..
Whenever a Govt. Spokesman, Politician made a speech or comment on TV!
ASK: The FBI, why they shot a 14 yr old boy in the BACK!
BUT!
                  Hey! They can't do that!
?? ?? ?JUST WATCH YOUR BACK! ?
Are you from UTAH ?

[I'm sorry!]

cederratt:
I'm sorry! ?
BUT!
 I, like many others do, when reading, did not read your "post", slowly & correctly!?
I forgot all of THAT EXPENSIVE USAF training that I rec'd!
After rereading it, I now see where you said, "Cannot legally Ban"...
You Are CORRECT!
Uncle Sam can not LEGALLY or Constitutionally, do so!
But!
I am sure that after seeing the "Frank Olson" ? website...
You realize, That has not and does NOT! Deter them!
If you need more proof,
Just read the above "post", Reply # 5,? about the US Army? ? Illegally ? going into, raiding & STEALING? Doc's Treasure!
Which was and is,? still today,? a legally filed for treasure site!
Which the State of New Mexico still recognizes as Private Property!?

Cant see them going threw all that just to cover up some gold.  But maybe there was something else down there that was more important?

["100 Tons of Gold"]

cederratt:
Get the Book...
? ? "100 Tons of Gold" by David Leon Chandler!
There was enough gold in there to corrupt the U.S. Army!?
The Govt. was already "currupt" by then!
? ?? It may have also, gotten JFK Killed! ?
Did you read the Frank Olson website/story yet?
THAT! IS ? ?? really? "Chilling" !
? ? AND!?
Notice who signed the "Kill" order!
? ?? If I suddenly disappear, you'll know why!
I have already been visited by the "Men In Black" (3 of them)
 (A "rabble rouser"! Or! Any! Non PC'ers, doesn't last long anymore)?

I've been to the Victorio peak site personally with a good Army buddy.  JFK, some other Politicos and Generals, Colonels etc. did remove all the gold, treasures, armor, i.e. EVERYTHING from the huge stash.  If you think the US Treasury got one bit of any of it you are sadly mistaken.  Every slingle bit of it went into individuals "pockets".  Forget about it.

Bill, I only forgot to put in that LBJ got his fair share too!  Anyhow, I can see that you and I would get along very well on most everything.   Unfortunately, the USA is being "dumbed down" by the educational institutions (public ones), and this has been the policy since the mid 1960's.  Sad but true.  People are graduating from High School for crying out loud that cannot even read and write much less add and subtract.  State, US, and World History? Forget about it!!!!    Any how the Victorio Peak is a dead subject on anything being left there.  Doc Noss was killed in Hatch, New Mexico because of it and the only remnants left now are what he hid.   ;) Comanchero

Jeff. Let's keep the record straight here.  LBJ was never the commander of the White Sands Missile Range or any other Large Military Facility.  And he only became Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces after being sworn in as President of the US after JFK was killed.
The Johnsons and Kennedys and all the others made out like bandits on this one.  Which they were.  Didn't pay a dime in taxes either then or ever either and it didn't cost them a cent to recover it all, thanks to you, me and every other US taxpayer.
The Johnson tribe is still very wealthy as most of the others are that were involved. 
I am through with this subject.    Comanchero

Sorry Jeff, Apology due and made herewith.  You did say "kin".  I read it too fast.   I am old Army myself and was in SIG, which LBJ established upon becoming President and Commander-in-Chief to find out the real truth about what was happening in Vietnam , as he had every reason to be paranoid, because he was being lied to by all the other Intel groups on just about everything !  Our small group of 13 men reported directly and only to him ( All Native Texian Boys )......drank Bourbon and Branch Water and swam with him on many occaisions.  And it was our direct info that helped him make the decision to just get the hell out of Vietnam!    Every President after him used and trusted us to the fullest extent, when they wanted the absolute truth and facts about any situation in the world.  Knew 'em all personally.   Slick Willie disbanded our unit when he became Prez & CIC for two reasons, we had too much bad on him and we were down to just 4 men, all the rest being killed in the line of duty in various countries and bad situations.
Yeah, LBJ was the biggest winner in the VP haul.  But he was considerate enough to give JFK's widow. Jackie a nice chunk of change, if you know what I mean, in consideration of the kids.  I have said all I am gonna say on this subject now.  But I did wanta apologize for misreading your post, and tell ya that you are correct on several, but not all of your observations. Comanchero

From treasures to politics. But, that's cool. With gov't control of the media, sensitive info can only be spread on a grass roots level. With his policy of detente toward the USSR, JFK had alienated the paranoid right wingers, and, following the Bay of Pigs debacle, he planned to restructure the CIA. Further, RFK's attacks on organized crime pitted this entity against the Kennedys. With these strikes against him, the nail in his coffin was, then, the bill he submitted to Congress for the re-structuring of the Federal Reserve system, which would have removed private control of U.S. taxpayers dollars, and ended the practice of private banks imposing excessive interest on the taxpayers for their own money. This was a direct attack on the upper class of America, which was behind the JFK assasination. The Victorio Peak gold may have been the intended source of finances for this re-structuring. JFK had intended to issue Treasury Securities, that had a similar appearance to Federal Reserve Notes, and the U.S. consumer would not have noticed the difference. The ones who would have felt the change would have been the ultra-rich who owned the banks that comprise the Federal Reserve System. The rich did not care who pocketed the gold, as long as their system remained unmolested. Thus, the stage was set. JFK was suckered to Dallas by LBJ. The rest is history. The first thing LBJ did upon taking office was to rescind the bill submitted by his predecessor. In any assasination of a political leader, the most likely suspect is the successor. Oswald was a patriotic and loyal American who was framed, then silenced. To those posters who see the good in LBJ, it's ironic than even the most evil of men have a good side. Dwell on what you choose, but this is history. The Victorio Peak gold may very well have played a part in JFK's death.

[I agree!]

GaBnn3:
I agree!? ?
See my Reply, #10, of this every topic!

GB3, Of course the VP gold had everything to do with the events that transpired after it was located.  History might have been a lot different if Doc Noss and his family would have kept their big mouths shut and not involved the Lawyer who killed him in the deal.
However, you are over-reaching on Harv Oswald.  He was not a Patriot by any means Bud.  He was a very stoooopid, --deleted-- stooge, perfect for the set-up.  Comanchero

[To All Concerned:]

To All Concerned:
As I mentioned, one of "Doc's" Grandson's was, he passed away     two years ago,  a Partner and Close Friend of mine. (He IS! Missed!)
In FACT!
I am presently living, less than 50 miles , from where the man    who shot/killed Doc Noss, lived!
I am not and I DO! NOT! Have be supposing anything OR! Am I, Guessing about ANYTHING! ...
I was actually "privy" to this close Noss Family Information..& MUCH! MORE!
In Fact!
I AM STILL Working on another of Doc's Treasure sites ! ( Almost Solved!)
But!
     Let's set the record straight!
JFK DID! Know of the Treasure      
JFK DID! Get a share of the Treasure!   
JFK DID! Actually VIEWED! the Treasure!   
I have talked to a woman whose husband was actually, standing there, at Holloman AFB,  when they, JFK & LBJ,  Viewed the Stolen Treasure !
I have heard from her, what was said, by LBJ to JFK about it!
This is NOT! Supposing OR! Hearsay! !
AND!
I have actually heard and have seen Doc's Family, stories/photos and records/documents (1000s)!
AND!
I actually Heard...FIRST HAND!  The actual Family Members on the subject(s)!

When I read that story it pissed me off.

Doc Noss, knowing that others would be after the Victorio Peak treasure, as well as himself, spent several months removing the gold from that mountain, and placing it in several locations all over that
desert.
There were witnesses(family & friends) that saw some of the gold bars, and even one friend  accompanied Doc to one of the locations to pick up some gold bars.(in the middle of the desert a distance from Victorio)
Doc's death was the result of his discovery; that someone, family, friend or other, valued that treasure
more than their own soul, but probably lost both.

There was a code that Doc used to bury each of his caches, and if someone finds one cache, they
could be on the trail to the rest of the caches, which number about 27.  One cache was reportedly
found in the late '60's, not too far from  I-25, but even that location has disappeared in time.

It's strange how the facts of Victorio peak have changed over the years.  But the further you go back in time, the more truth there is to any story.  It's a fact, that each time a story is re-told the facts are
changed, sometimes so much, that it bears little resemblance to the original. 

So now, most of what is heard or written is about Victorio Peak & Doc Noss is crap!

I read through these forums a lot, but have never registered or posted until now. I am currently working with a tribe from the AZ/NM area on something in Eastern Ca. In our discussions, the story of the VP Gold came up. This tribe fought against the Chiricahua Apache all through the late 1700's until the mid 1800's, until the whites became the common enemy. They believe that the gold was amassed from years of raiding Mexicans and Whites. My friends said that their tribe at first left any gold right where it fell as they had no use for it at the time. Later they took to hiding it so the whites and Mexicans wouldn't come looking for it. Some think it is all in one spot and others think it is all spread around so nobody could accidently find it all at once.

This could not be Padre LaRue's gold for the simple reason that the directions given to the Padre by the old man were; "One days travel North of El Paso del Norte until you see three peaks. Upon first site of these peaks turn Eastward and cross the desert towards the mountains. In the mountains you will find a basin, where there is a spring at the foot of a solitary peak. On this peak you will find gold." Padre LaRue moved his flock to that basin. Nowhere near Victorio Peak which is near the Western Edge of White Sands Missile Test Range.

Not likely to be Maximillian's Gold either as most current wisdom places that square in Texas.

Montezuma's Treasure seems out because there would be nothing newer than the 1500's, and none likely to be in ingot form.

It's amazing the things that some people post without doing even a little research.

 
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Victorio Peak Stories - Jan. 26, 1990
Part 1 -- 1/26/90 -- Gold Search Set to Begin

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Return to Public AffairsThe following articles were written by Jim Eckles for the White Sands newspaper -- The Missile Ranger. Interlaced with the historical information are statements of personal opinion by the author which are not necessarily the official position of White Sands Missile Range or the U.S. Army. To date there are eight articles in this series.
The first article follows below. To get to articles 2 through 8, use the links provided:

Part 1 -- 1/26/90 -- Gold search set to begin
Part 2 -- 2/9/90 -- How the gold was found & how it got there
Part 3 -- 2/16/90 -- The Fiege and Gaddis searches
Part 4 -- 2/23/90 & 3/2/90 -- The 60s & 70s and the Scott search
Part 5 -- 7/20/90 -- The environmental assessment for the search
Part 6 -- 11/2/90 -- Gold partnership's tape and a clarification
Part 7 -- 4/12/91 -- The licensing agreement
Part 8 -- 8/7/92 -- The search begins, no success yet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In 1979 Ova Noss stood on the side of Victorio Peak posing for photos when she told the group, "Like they say, 'there's gold inthem thar hills'." Ova Noss died later in 1979 but The Ova Noss Family Partnership is back on White Sands Missile Range seeking access to the legendary treasure.

One of the people accompanying Ova Noss in 1979 was Terry Delonas, her grandson. Delonas is the head of the family partnership and has been leading the effort to gain entry into Victorio Peak.

In early 1989 the partnership approached the Dept. of Army seeking permission to talk to White Sands about possible entry into Victorio Peak. Taking on much of the effort has been Norman Scott's Expeditions Unlimited out of Florida. Scott has been in the treasure hunting business for years and organized the hunt which took place at Victorio Peak in 1977.

For those of you unfamiliar with this story Victorio Peak is a small hill, about 400 feet high, in the Hembrillo Basin in the San Andres Mountains. The peak is about five miles east of the missile range's western boundary and is almost directly west of the White Sands Space Harbor.

A man named Milton Noss, in 1937, supposedly found a treasure trove of Spanish gold and artifacts in a tunnel within the peak. He then claimed he accidentally sealed the tunnel in 1939 while trying to enlarge it---and another fabulous treasure was lost. But more about the history of this legend in next week's paper. It gets pretty good as it involves skeletons, jewels and gold bars the seekers say are now worth three billion dollars.

The Dept. of Army granted Terry Delonas and Norman Scott permission to talk to Maj. Gen. Thomas Jones, missile range commander. After listening to the presentation, the general told the group he would allow the exploration of Victorio Peak on two conditions. The first was that all the work be done on a noninterference basis. The second was that White Sands be directly reimbursed for any support it would provide.

The first condition was readily agreed to. While Victorio Peak sits in the mountains very near the range's boundary it is part of the Yonder Area, an Air Force gunnery range. When Air Force training missions as well as some missile firings are scheduled the searchers will have to evacuate the area.

The second condition was a little trickier. Suffice it to say the system did not allow the partnership to pay White Sands directly. The check would be made out to the U.S. Treasury and the money would disappear back East. The partnership approached Congressman Joe Skeen and he attached a rider to the Defense Authorization Act for 1990 which would allow direct reimbursement to the Army and WSMR.

With the signing of the money bill, Norman Scott, acting as Project Director for the partnership, arranged to conduct an environmental and engineering survey of Victorio Peak. He arrived on Jan. 8 to present the missile range with a check for $54,000 and to start the survey. The check was actually presented by Aaron Kin, a financial backer.

The money is to cover costs incurred by the range during the survey period. Some of this support includes security at the peak by the military police, scheduling by National Range, blading the old road by the Directorate for Engineering, Housing and Logistics and Public Affairs support for a press day at the peak.

During the two-week survey period the group was trying to figure out the best place to dig and, also, to conduct the required environmental work. To determine where the supposed treasure room might be Lambert Dolphin was back taking ground radar readings of the peak. Dolphin had a similar function during the gold search of 1977 and is under contract to Expeditions Unlimited. They also made infrared images of the peak and brought in a number of witnesses to try to determine where to dig.

Les Smith, another man with a great deal of experience with Victorio Peak was also present to help. Smith accompanied Ova Noss to the peak in 1979 and was with the Gaddis Mining Company when it searched for the gold for 60 days in 1963.

The environmental work was contracted out by the partnership and is a key point yet. Contrary to what the press has said, the family partnership does not have final permission to dig at the peak. A license has been negotiated with the partnership but it has not been signed. It will not be signed until the required environmental documentation is satisfactorily completed.

Once the environmental work is completed and the license signed, the partnership will be allowed to work at the peak as long as they keep enough money in a White Sands fund to pay for range support. Jones has made it very clear he does not want the taxpayer to foot the bill for this search. The group claims it will have the environmental work complete in April.

During the two-week study period, Scott and Delonas brought in a number of potential contractors to bid on work which will have to be done at the peak.

On the 18th the missile range cooperated with the family partnership to give the press an opportunity to see and photograph Victorio Peak. The press representatives were mostly local except for the Denver Post and the Houston Chronicle.

The day started with a press conference at the Hilton Hotel in Las Cruces where Delonas and Scott introduced their key employees and supporters. In questioning by the press Delonas said the project will probably cost the partnership and its supporters from one to two million dollars.

At the peak, Ova Noss' two daughters, Letha Guthrie and Dorothy Delonas, and two grandsons, Terry and Jim Delonas, were continuously interviewed by members of the press. Letha and Dorothy told them about handling gold bars and Letha also told them how their stepfather once partially filled a glass jar with uncut rubies from the peak. No one asked where the rubies might have come from since there are no major deposits of rubies in North or South America.

Next, I'll recount some of the history of Victorio Peak.

Next Part 2

 
 
 
 
 

Here's the link for the rest of the story,has anyone actually and I mean physically touched or have seen this stash??
http://www.wsmr.army.mil/pao/VictorioPeak/vipt1.htm

[MesaBuddy:]

MesaBuddy:
My Partner, Jerry!  whose Grandmother, OVA NOSS, talked to us many times about not only "touching" the gold, but carrying the bars and other artifacts, down the hill to the PU/car!
I have seen and handled the "Crown" and a 1730's Sword, other relics/artifacts, etc.!
Sorry! No Gold Bars! They were, except those hidden by DOC!,  converted into cash .....

[& NOT!]

MesaBuddy:
From what I heard/know,      There JUST! Might be another undisturbed & NOT! Robbed, cavern!
The exit/entrance is outside the Proving Grds !
IF!
"Comanchero" knows any Old Time Apaches from The Mescalero Reservation,   
He/They can verify this!   
IF!
 They are inclined, to reveal what they know of the Two other, than original, entrances!   
I don't know where the inside the Proving Grds Entrance is located,
But!
I have a very good Idea where the other, (outside the Proving Grds) is!
In case you or someone else thinks, this is "BS" !
I will be more than glad, to meet you or HIM! (And! He knows who "HE" is! )in Las Cruces, and we go out and see if it is the entrance!
Why haven't I been out there?
I have had FOUR (4)! ( NM.) FRIENDS DIE in the past couple of years!
Is this just a coincidence ?
They were all involved in some way, with "DOC's CACHE" !
Two, Family members, & Two, close, friends of the family!
HEY!   
I'll shoot it out!      with anything or "body" !
Witness my FEMA Confurtation !
But!
When it comes to The Supernatural" ..
I'm Chicken!
& Besides,
I'm all out of Silver Bullets!

So CptBild, you are saying that there is more than a natural twist to this whole hidden stash out there by WSM??A curse perhaps?Those Apache's get pissed when you go where your not supposed to ;)My focus was never Victorio Peak but on up the mountain above Alamogordo,past the tunnel a ways

Here's another take on the story
       
   
 
   
 
 









 


   
 Published by the Church of Scientology International   
  The Mystery of the $30 Billion Treasure [1986]
   Freedoms:Ill WindBehind the TerrorDeadly SpiralChildren of the StateThe Hidden Hand of ViolenceCa$hing InThe Great Brain Injury ScamHuman Rights and FreedomsBuying off the Drug Traffic CopRevisiting the Jonestown tragedyThe Great WasteA Fire on the CrossEchoes of the Past?Historical amnesia in Germany...In Support of Human RightsThe Black and White of JusticeFreedom of Speech at Risk in CyberspaceThe Psychiatric Subversion of JusticeThe Story Behind the ControversyThe Internet: The Promise and the Perils     
   
   
   
  Page    1  |   2     
   
   
 

 



Gold!
The Mystery of the $30 Billion Treasure
Part I
From Freedom Magazine, June 1986

 
According to Freedom?s sources, hundreds ? perhaps thousands ? of tons of gold were secretly and illegally removed from Victorio Peak on White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico between 1964 and 1977. 
You are about to read a story that strains the imagination. It is about the disappearance of a fortune of up to $30 billion in gold bullion. When it was first presented as a ?tip? to a Freedom Magazine reporter in El Paso, Texas, in 1981, it was discounted as beyond belief. However, when dozens of unrelated, independent sources began to corroborate the story, it could no longer be disregarded, no matter how bizarre. The following story, constructed from personal interviews, documents and confidential reports, is the result of a five-year investigation.

By Thomas G. Whittle

In one of the most closely guarded crimes of recent history, hundreds, perhaps thousands, of tons of gold bullion were secretly and illegally removed from caverns on White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico, the beneficiaries allegedly including former President Lyndon Johnson and individuals connected with the U.S. Army, the Central Intelligence Agency and organized crime.

The caverns are located in and around Victorio Peak, in a remote, rugged section of south-central New Mexico.

The peak, named after a 19th century Apache war chief, apparently served as a repository for immense quantities of gold mined centuries ago by Spaniards and Indians and smelted into tens of thousands of crudely formed bars.

 
Between 1937 and 1939, Milton Ernest ?Doc? Noss (left) and his wife, Ova (right), working with family members and trusted associates, reportedly removed up to 350 gold bars from the depths of Victorio Peak. 
An investigation by Freedom has probed the history of that region, particularly the nearly 49 years since gold bars were first found in that area in November 1937 by a man named Milton Ernest ?Doc? Noss, as fascinating a character as ever held a six-gun.

Background research into the enormous wealth contained in the caverns of Victorio Peak revealed many eyewitness reports of the gold.

In 1937, the peak was miles from nowhere. Its occasional visitors included hunting parties, and Doc Noss and his wife, Ova, were on one such expedition in search of deer. They had trekked in from Hot Springs, New Mexico, a town since renamed Truth or Consequences.

According to accounts from members of the Noss family, Doc bagged no deer, but he found something that whetted his appetite for the area ? a shaft near the top of Victorio Peak which led into the bowels of the mountain. Doc mentioned nothing of his find to the group, choosing instead to return to the site a couple of days later with Ova.

Using ropes for support and guided by his flashlight?s wavering beam, Doc Noss descended a series of interconnecting chambers which led downward for 186 feet.

Years later, in 1946, Doc discussed his exploration with Gordon E. Herkenhoff, field representative of the New Mexico State Land Office.1

In a four-page confidential report entitled ?Field Examination of Noss Mining Claims, Hembrillo District,? Herkenhoff recorded a description:

?Dr. Noss claims that beyond the 186-foot depth, there is an incline downward at 45 degrees for 72 feet.... Beyond that there is supposed to be another incline upward at about 30 degrees for some distance (40 feet as I remember it) where entrance is gained to a cave some 2700 feet long which contains many evidences that the cave was occupied as living quarters by a large group of humans for many years.?

The group evidently had some grisly practices, for the first thing Doc Noss encountered was a row of skeletons, 27 in all. Each skeleton had its hands bound behind it to a large wooden stake driven into the ground. Doc later brought one of the eerie things out.2

Doc?s object at the time of discovery, of course, was more than old bones. Passing through the large cavern, he came to a series of smaller caves ? ?rooms,? he called them. In one ?room? he discovered a large stash of old swords and guns, papers and letters from the 19th century, and a king?s ransom in jewels and coins.

Returning through the main cavern, he noticed an immense stack of metal bars off to one side. There were thousands of them, covered with old, dusty buffalo hides.

After he got back to the surface, Doc told Ova what he had seen, and almost as an afterthought mentioned the long row of metal bars. He also told his wife that there were ?enough gold and silver coins to load 60 to 80 mules.?

Ova convinced Doc to return to the big cave and bring one of the heavy bars back up. Begrudgingly, he did so.

After scraping a small section of the bar clean, she exclaimed, ?Doc, this is gold!?

Letha Guthrie, Ova?s eldest daughter from a previous marriage, described the next few years as a very happy time for the Noss family, one of simple, hard work with a bright, limitless future. Deferring to Doc?s belief that the gold would all be taken by the government should his find become too broadly known, the work force was confined to the immediate family and a couple of handfuls of trusted associates.

Ova Noss, her two sons, Harold and Marvin, and her two daughters, Letha and Dorothy, helped Doc in the strenuous task of removing the bars, one at a time, from the depths of the peak. Letha told Freedom that she herself handled 12 to 15 of the bars, ?and I even put one up and hid it for four days.?

Six men who worked with Doc in removing the gold ? C.D. Patterson, Don Breech, Edgar F. Foreman, Leo D. O?Connell, Eppie Montoya and B.D. Lampros ? later signed sworn affidavits regarding their experiences.

Lampros, for example, described having his photograph taken with Colonel Willard E. Holt of Lordsburg, New Mexico; each held an end of a bar while it was being sawed in half.

Joe Andregg, an electrician from Santa Fe, New Mexico, reflected on the days when he worked with Doc Noss in the late 1930s. ?I was just a kid, about 13 or 14 years old,? he told this writer. Asked about the bars, he said, ?I sawed one in two with a hacksaw.?

One person who worked with Doc Noss inside the cave was Jose Serafin Sedillo of Cuchillo, New Mexico. He told this writer that the gold bars in the cave were ?stacked like cordwood.?

The bars that Noss and his crew removed from Victorio Peak were, in general, crudely formed, indicating the use of primitive smelting processes.

Estimates vary on the number of bars removed, ranging up to 350 or so.

According to members of the family, there would have been more, but Doc?s work was abruptly and unexpectedly brought to a halt in August 1939 when a dynamite blast, set to enlarge a narrow passage, instead caved the passage in, sealing off the main cavern.

Doc Noss spent the next 10 years in intermittent efforts to regain access to the hoard, in vain. He worked with a succession of partners, the last of whom, Charlie Ryan of Alice, Texas, shot and killed Noss in an altercation in Hatch, New Mexico, on March 5, 1949.

The night before his death, perhaps sensing that a business deal was going sour, Doc enlisted the aid of a cowboy named Tony Jolley to shuffle the locations of various stashes of the bars. There were 110 gold bars moved that night, according to an affidavit obtained by this writer and sworn to by Jolley.

The affidavit states, in part: ?In March of 1949 I handled 110 rough [sic] poured bars of gold in the area which is now White Sands Missile Range which is now the area of Victorio Peak. On the night of March 4, 1949, I went with Doc Noss and dug up 20 bars of gold at a windmill in the desert east of Hatch, New Mexico, and reburied them in the basin where Victorio Peak is. We took 90 bars ... stacked by a mine shaft at Victorio Peak and reburied them 10 in a pile scattered throughout the basin with the exception of 30 bars that we buried in a grassy flat near the road we came out on.?

After the death of Doc Noss, Ova and her family continued efforts to regain access to the big treasure room. The U.S. Army, which gained control of the area when it was converted to a bombing range during the Second World War, refused her request to bring in an excavation firm and ultimately ordered the Nosses to stay out of the area.

Word of the Doc Noss treasure spread, and keeping people out of the area was no easy chore. In November 1958, a team of four weekend gold seekers rediscovered the hoard.

Led by U.S. Air Force Captain Leonard V. Fiege, the four had done extensive research on Victorio Peak, poring over old documents and records, and even traveling south into Mexico to check stories there regarding a man who has often been linked with the origin of the gold, Padre Philip La Rue.

All four men ? Fiege, Thomas Berlett, Ken Prather and Milleadge Wessel ? were, at the time of their find, employees at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico. This writer conducted extensive interviews with Thomas Berlett. According to Berlett, the four men proceeded down a fault into the peak for about 150 feet, at which point their progress was stopped by a large boulder. They dug under it, and Berlett and Fiege moved past it for another 100 to 125 feet, coming eventually to what Berlett described as a small cavern, approximately eight feet wide by 10 or 12 feet long.

In the room were two large stacks of gold bars, each roughly six feet high, three feet wide and eight feet long. A third, smaller stack, pyramidal in shape, stood about three feet high.

Berlett and Fiege had found a different passage into Victorio Peak, leading into a different chamber.

The room had been undisturbed for so long that the dust, according to Berlett, lay several inches thick. The slightest movement stirred up a cloud. Nearly choking, the two men hastily marked their claim and made their exit.

Before leaving, both men had observed an old wooden cross on one of the walls. Berlett viewed this as substantiation for the theory that Spaniards had been responsible for stashing the gold.

In September 1961, Berlett and Fiege swore to the specifics of their discovery in detailed affidavits provided to federal officials. They also were given ? and passed ? lie detector tests.

Among those who attested to the accessibility of the peak?s treasure was Lynn Porter, a businessman now residing in San Diego, California.

On the night of September 1, 1968, Porter drove to the peak with a friend and a civilian security guard from White Sands Missile Range named Clarence McDonald. The three men had been on a hunting party when McDonald, who reportedly had imbibed several cans of beer, began talking freely about a huge stash of gold. Porter and his friends were amused at his story and McDonald, to prove that what he was saying was true, took the two other hunters on a moonlit drive to Victorio Peak.

A narrow passage through rocks kept the bulky Porter from following the other two men into the depths of the peak. He stood guard while McDonald and the other man descended into a large cavern, returning with a crudely formed gold bar roughly 2 1/2 inches wide by 7 inches long.

The gold, Porter?s friend stated breathlessly, ran in a tremendous stack along one side of the cavern ? stretching for approximately 200 yards. The two men told Porter they had taken one of the smaller bars from the stack because they felt it would be easier to handle than one of the large bars in moving through the long and sometimes difficult passage.

After some discussion, the men decided that Porter should take the bar to a close friend of his who worked in the provost marshal?s office in nearby Fort Bliss, Texas. Possession of gold was against the law at the time, and the men reasoned that the bar would provide evidence to bring about an authorized, legal expedition to remove the vast quantity of gold. The men believed that Porter?s friend was in a good position to help arrange an official government expedition to claim the gold.

Porter subsequently brought the gold bar to the close friend, who was an Army major.

The major took the bar and told Porter to check back with him in a few days. He did, only to find that in the short, three-day interim the major had been whisked away, transferred to the Pentagon. His wife and his two school-age children had also abruptly left.

The gold bar had disappeared without a trace. No one in the provost marshal?s office to whom Porter talked would admit to knowing anything about the gold, and he was warned by the provost marshal that any future ?trespassing? would be dealt with severely.

There is evidence to indicate that many gold bars were removed from Victorio Peak a short time after Lynn Porter brought the bar to the Fort Bliss provost marshal?s office.

Going public with information about the gold stored in Victorio Peak or removed from it, however, is something that people familiar with the subject are generally reluctant to do. And for good reason.

Chester Stout, for example, a retired Army sergeant, traced the removal of two large truckloads of gold from Victorio Peak, but later had to move out of New Mexico; his life was threatened because, as he was told, he ?knew too much.?

In all, eight persons told this writer they had received direct threats against their lives or against the lives of their families. Sam Scott, for example, a retired airline pilot, was warned in 1977 to keep clear of anything regarding Victorio Peak for at least five years under pain of having his home firebombed and his wife and daughter killed.

The sources of this threat, according to the man who relayed the threat to Scott, were two agents of the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency.

The daughter of another man, Harvey Snow, died from a gunshot wound in the head after Snow had disregarded repeated warnings in regard to the peak.

Thayer Snipes of El Paso, Texas, swore to an affidavit regarding another death. The affidavit states:

?I, Thayer Snipes, first being duly sworn, on my oath state:

?That in the latter part of 1972, I had stopped by the Airport Chevron Station at the corner of Airway Blvd. and Montana Ave. in El Paso, Texas, to visit with a friend, Frank Foss, owner of the station.

?That while visiting Foss, a man we both knew, E.M. Guthrie, drove in to the station in a late model Ford Thunderbird.

?That I had known E.M. Guthrie for about three years prior to this meeting and knew him to be the husband of Letha Guthrie, stepdaughter of Milton Ernest ?Doc? Noss.

?That I knew E.M. Guthrie had taken an active personal interest in the fate of gold located in Victorio Peak by Doc Noss.

?That I walked over to E.M. Guthrie on this occasion in 1972, greeted him, and invited him out to dinner with myself and Frank Foss.

?That he seemed very disturbed, nervous and agitated, and refused my invitation to dinner, saying, ?I?m running for my life.?

?That he also said, ?The Mob is after me.?

?That three or four weeks later Frank Foss told me that E.M. had called him and said he was in Central America.

?That about a month after that, I heard E.M. had been beaten to death in California.

?That after he had been beaten to death, according to the information I received, his body was put back into his car, the car was doused with kerosene or gasoline, and then set aflame.?

Another source confirmed the manner and the circumstances of E.M. Guthrie?s death, noting that ?it was listed as just a natural death, but he?d been worked over with a baseball bat.? This source said that he had hired a team of experienced investigators to dig into Guthrie?s death and more than 30 other deaths in connection with a massive, continuing cover-up of the removal of gold from Victorio Peak.

Bill Shriver, an international dealer in precious metals who proved very helpful in the initial stages of this investigation until his death, brought the total still higher. According to a close relative interviewed by Freedom, Shriver was ?murdered.? The relative said that Shriver ?was beaten up in California, beaten about the kidneys and the head? and subsequently died from his injuries.

The cloud of death shrouding Victorio Peak has reached far.

Edward Atkins of Decatur, Illinois, had been a claimant to the peak?s gold and was vigorously pursuing that claim via attorney Darrell Holmes of Athens, Georgia, when Holmes died under mysterious circumstances.

According to Atkins? son, John, Holmes possessed key materials which were being used to press the Army into allowing Atkins and Holmes access to Victorio Peak. These materials, including tape-recorded sessions wherein Lyndon Johnson discussed the disposition of some of the gold bars on his ranch, disappeared from Holmes? office at the time of his death in February 1977.

Edward Atkins himself died, reportedly of a heart attack, in April 1979 while returning to Illinois from El Paso on a matter pertaining to his claim. At least one close relative was convinced that Atkins? death was not accidental and that it was directly related to his getting too close to the true story of Victorio Peak.

Lyndon Johnson?s name loomed large in the information that Freedom uncovered, with various sources claiming that the president was instrumental in the planning and execution of the removal of the gold. The charges concerning LBJ?s involvement included the following:


A retired White Sands Missile Range security guard, residing in El Paso, Texas, indicated that he observed Johnson and former Texas Governor John Connally spending about 10 days in the desolate area around Victorio Peak in the late 1960s. According to the security guard, Johnson and Connally headed a team which brought in sophisticated excavation equipment to remove gold from the peak, ?the most modern I?ve ever seen,? he said. ?They even brought in their own security guards,? he added.

A retired U.S. Army officer said that while on duty at the provost marshal?s office on White Sands Missile Range during the period of LBJ?s presidency, he was visited by four men in a late model Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham who sought permission to drive to Victorio Peak. One man, a Mr. Moon, said that he was from the White House Secret Service detail and he showed the officer a green, laminated card which stated ?Secret Service, Division of the White House.? Another man, an engineer named Dick Richardson, told the officer that he was a boyhood friend of Lyndon Johnson?s and that he had personally counted 18,888 gold bars in one stack in a cavern at Victorio Peak, each bar weighing about 60 pounds.3

Bill Shriver, before his death, told this writer that he had a copy of a transcribed order from Lyndon Johnson describing in detail how the president wanted a military escort to handle the supply of gold taken out of Victorio Peak and taken to his ranch. Shriver also said that he had copies of other ?presidential messages, several initialed by LBJ,? dealing with the clandestine, illegal removal of the gold.

A source interviewed in Mexico stated that it was common knowledge in the towns of Jimenez and Camargo that Johnson?s 110,000-acre ranch in Chihuahua served as a storage area for a very large amount of gold flown in by a four-engine, propeller-driven aircraft in the late 1960s.

Still another source reported knowledge of aircraft movements of the gold from Chihuahua to Vancouver, British Columbia, during the period of Johnson?s presidency. According to this source, a B-24 was used to transport at least seven loads of the peak?s gold, with up to 20 tons of gold moving in each load.

Another source, who asked to remain unidentified, stated that he had personally interviewed several men who had brought a large load of the peak?s gold to Johnson?s ranch.
According to this same source, Victorio Peak ?was just like a private vault to certain high-ranking people.? They would ?go in periodically and get what they wanted. They would have the proper persons on guard duty.?

Possession of gold by private American citizens was illegal under federal law throughout the period of the Johnson presidency. In addition, Victorio Peak lay on land owned by the state of New Mexico, and removal of gold without permission of the state violated New Mexico law.4

A number of sources also independently named Major General John G. Shinkle, the commander of White Sands Missile Range from June 1960 to July 1962, as knowing about the movement of tons of gold from Victorio Peak. Reached for comment in Cocoa Beach, Florida, General Shinkle adamantly denied any knowledge of the gold and refused to comment at all on the story.

Large movements of bullion from the peak went on for nearly a decade, with the largest single removal of gold occurring in 1976, according to Bill Shriver. This was shortly before a much-publicized expedition, entitled Operation Goldfinder, took place at the site in March 1977.

Shriver estimated the total amount of gold removed from Victorio Peak at 25 million troy ounces, of which 10 million came out in 1976. The gold, he said, was removed and ?smelted into old Mexican bars, 50-pound bars.? The gold in its new form, he noted, had no marks to identify its origin.

The gold was then shipped to Switzerland and sold in a new form in Zurich. ?The buying entity was a Middle Eastern principal,? Shriver said.

The actual movement of the gold in this last, largest shipment, Shriver said, was ?done by [U.S.] military aircraft.? Independent of Shriver, another source traced a number of large removals from Victorio Peak. He estimated the total amount of gold coming from the peak at a staggering 96 million troy ounces, worth, at $320 an ounce, nearly $31 billion.

Army spokesmen have consistently dismissed all reports of Victorio Peak gold as ?rumors.? An apparent propaganda campaign, in fact, has been conducted for many years by the Army in order to dispel these reports and to keep treasure seekers away from the missile range.

Part II: The bizarre history of Victorio Peak continues to unravel as the Army, the Treasury Department and the Secret Service authorize a top secret operation aimed at locating and bringing out the gold.

Ova Noss, Leonard Fiege and others don?t listen when they are told to ?shut up? ? and they pay the price.




References:
1 Freedom Magazine obtained copies of the 1946 New Mexico land office correspondence regarding Doc Noss? claim.
2 Chester R. Johnson Jr., ?Explorations at Victorio Peak,? Division of Research, Museum of New Mexico, 1963. The official version of this report, released after U.S. Army censorship, deleted numerous key references to gold bars and to secret government activities contained in Chester R. Johnson?s original report. The author obtained copies of both the official version and the original, uncensored report.
3 While the purity of the gold cannot be accurately assessed at this time, the mid-1960s value of this stack, which was about one-third of the total amount in that cavern, would be more than $400 million at $32 per troy ounce. At a 1986 value of $320 per troy ounce, that stack alone would be worth more than $4 billion.
4 Those who took the gold were also taking it over what had been claims filed by Doc Noss, members of his family and others who had staked claims to the gold with the state of New Mexico as early as the 1930s. U.S. Army rights to use the land did not include mineral rights, which were retained by the state.   
   
       
   
 
 
 
   
   
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Not so fast!       
Here's part two
   
 
   
 
 









 


   
 Published by the Church of Scientology International   
  The Mystery of the $30 Billion Treasure [1986]
   Freedoms:Ill WindBehind the TerrorDeadly SpiralChildren of the StateThe Hidden Hand of ViolenceCa$hing InThe Great Brain Injury ScamHuman Rights and FreedomsBuying off the Drug Traffic CopRevisiting the Jonestown tragedyThe Great WasteA Fire on the CrossEchoes of the Past?Historical amnesia in Germany...In Support of Human RightsThe Black and White of JusticeFreedom of Speech at Risk in CyberspaceThe Psychiatric Subversion of JusticeThe Story Behind the ControversyThe Internet: The Promise and the Perils     
   
   
   
  Page    1  |   2     
   
   
 

 



Gold!
The Mystery of the $30 Billion Treasure
Part II
From Freedom Magazine, July 1986

 
According to Freedom?s sources, hundreds ? perhaps thousands ? of tons of gold were secretly and illegally removed from Victorio Peak on White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico between 1964 and 1977. 
In the first part of this series, Freedom reported the bizarre story of a fabulous hoard of up to $30 billion in gold bullion sequestered in a remote location on White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico.

A large number of sources had reported to Freedom that the gold was secretly and illegally removed from its underground chambers by a combination of interests that allegedly included the U.S. Army, the Central Intelligence Agency, organized crime and former President Lyndon B. Johnson.

The peak?s modern history began in November 1937 with the discovery by Milton Ernest ?Doc? Noss of an immense quantity of gold bars. Over a period of about 21 months, Noss removed a large number of gold bars from one of the caverns, a fact attested to by more than a dozen people who worked directly with him. Estimates on the number of bars removed by Doc Noss and his co-workers range up to approximately 350.

During an attempt to enlarge a passage to the gold in August 1939, the shaft caved in, leading to frenzied and unsuccessful efforts by Doc, his family and a few close associates to regain access to the hoard through hundreds of feet of rocks and rubble.

Nineteen years after the cave-in, in November 1958, U.S. Air Force Captain Leonard V. Fiege led a team of treasure hunters who discovered a second, smaller treasure in another Victorio Peak cavern.

As described in Part I, Fiege and Airman Thomas L. Berlett found three stacks of gold bars that had lain undisturbed for so many years that they were covered by several inches of thick dust.

Freedom also unveiled some of the further history of Victorio Peak, including numerous reports by eyewitnesses and others that a tremendous quantity of gold bars were secretly and illegally removed from the mountain over a period of years, principally from 1964 to 1977.

In this article, Freedom continues the story.


By Thomas G. Whittle

The clandestine removal of tons of gold from Victorio Peak left legitimate claimants to the treasure with no money and little recourse. Principal among these unlucky individuals were Ova Noss and Leonard Fiege.

Ova had been with Doc Noss when he made his 1937 discovery of the tremendous stash of gold bullion inside Victorio Peak.

Fiege, Thomas Berlett and their companions ? Ken Prather and Milleadge Wessel ? were, at the time of their find, employees of Holloman Air Force Base, located just east of White Sands Missile Range.

As leader of the four treasure hunters, Fiege worked within the Air Force chain of command to get permission to legally return to Hembrillo Basin ? the large, bowl-shaped area surrounding Victorio Peak ? in order to recover the treasure.

In seeking to return to the site of his find, Fiege solicited the assistance of Holloman?s staff judge advocate, Lieutenant Colonel Sigmund I. Gasiewicz.

The aboveboard attempts by Fiege, Berlett and their companions were stymied, however. The White Sands commander, Major General John G. Shinkle, refused all requests for permission to enter the area, including one made by Air Force Major General Monte Canterbury on behalf of Fiege and his companions.

In August 1961, after forming a partnership with three Air Force attorneys, the men were allowed to meet in Washington, D.C., with senior representatives of the Department of the Army, the Department of the Treasury, the Secret Service and the Bureau of the Mint. Chairing the meeting was the director of the Bureau of the Mint. At the meeting, the four treasure hunters and the three lawyers stated their case. And, nearly three years after the discovery, the men were finally allowed to return.

The operation itself, a five-day affair in August 1961, was ?carried out as a top secret project,? according to a heavily censored Secret Service report.

Those accompanying the four treasure hunters included General Shinkle and agent Liliburn ?Pat? Boggs from the Secret Service?s Albuquerque office.

The passage used by Fiege and Berlett in reaching the gold was found. Unfortunately, as noted in the Secret Service report, the final 40 feet to the gold ?was blocked by large boulders that could not be removed by hand or shoveled away.? Although the expedition had General Shinkle as a supervisor and 14 armed military policemen as guards, no equipment heavier than shovels and picks had been brought. It ended fruitlessly.

A heavily deleted August 31, 1961, Secret Service memorandum obtained by Freedom shows that on that date the missile range?s provost marshal met with Pat Boggs in the Albuquerque Secret Service office. The provost marshal stated that he was seeing Boggs at the order of the missile range commander.

According to the memorandum, the commander, General Shinkle, ?was anxious to determine the degree of interest? of the Secret Service in the gold.

In the memorandum, Boggs records that the interview with the provost marshal was interrupted by a telephone call from the Holloman commander, who wanted to know whether the Treasury Department would ?permit exploration of the tunnel on weekends.?

Boggs resumed his interview with the provost marshal. The provost marshal ?stated that should any gold be recovered from the tunnel, he would immediately notify the writer [Boggs] so that possession of the gold could be taken by this Service for delivery to the Federal Reserve Bank Branch at El Paso, Texas.?

After a flurry of additional memos, reports and top secret conferences, work at the site continued, this time with heavier equipment.

In the interim, Fiege and Berlett had authenticated affidavits they had previously written regarding the gold they had found by taking, and passing, lie detector tests. After those tests, the order to dig came ? not from General Shinkle, but from Secretary of the Army Elvis J. Stahr Jr.

New Mexico law is quite clear on the point that there can be no mining or treasure troving on any land in the state without approval of the State Land Office. In carrying forward with this top secret project, neither the Army nor the Secret Service had consulted with that office.

On October 28, 1961, word of the digging leaked out after four civilians ? friends of Ova Noss ? ?wandered? into Hembrillo Basin.

News of the Army?s activities quickly reached Ova, who wasted no time in telling Oscar Jordan, general counsel of the State Land Office in Santa Fe, that her claim was being jumped.

Jordan sent S.A. Floersheim, supervisor of the State Land Office?s Lands and Minerals Division, to investigate. Floersheim, in a memorandum dated November 6, 1961, wrote that he contacted Colonel Jaffe, the White Sands staff judge advocate.

Floersheim told Jaffe that he wanted ?to make an investigation of the land down there in question to determine if any activity on the part of unauthorized persons had taken place.?

The colonel, in Floersheim?s words, ?was not too cooperative.?

When Floersheim indicated that if necessary he would secure a court order from a U.S. district judge, Colonel Jaffe ?attempted to assure me that there was no operation, that it was all a myth.?

The ?myth,? however, was quickly shown to be fact. The four men who had visited the peak ? Ray Bradley, Bob Bradley, Hugh Moreland and R.B. Gray ? had drawn up notarized affidavits of what they saw and heard. The affidavits were specific, down to the serial number on one of the jeeps.

Before Jaffe was confronted with the affidavits, he told essentially the same story to Ova Noss and her attorney, and on a separate occasion to Ova?s son, Harold Beckwith.

According to a later account, ?When informed of the affidavits, he [Colonel Jaffe] became quite upset.?

Eventually, Oscar Jordan and S.A. Floersheim got the digging to stop. The Army?s less-than-straightforward practices, however, were not corrected.

A report, for example, entitled ?Explorations at Victorio Peak,? was prepared by the Museum of New Mexico in 1963, summarizing the highlights of the peak?s history. This report was heavily censored by the Army. All references to Captain Fiege?s 1958 discovery of gold bars and to the subsequent illegal excavation efforts by the Army ? two full pages of material ? were removed from the final report.1

Furthermore, the Army misrepresented some important excavation work in 1963 done by the museum and Gaddis Mining Company of Denver, Colorado.

The museum had obtained permission to conduct an expedition to Victorio Peak in 1963. As a key part of the expedition, extensive digging was done by Gaddis Mining Company in an attempt to contact a passage that would lead to one of the caverns.

The Gaddis team ran out of its allotted time and money before it could reach the shaft that would have led to a cavern. The team, therefore, was forced to leave the site before completing its work.

The man who supervised the work for Gaddis on the 1963 expedition, geologist Loren Smith of Denver, was not happy with the results and wanted to return to finish the job. As recently as 1981, Smith wrote a letter to the secretary of the Army requesting permission to conduct a 90-day search.

?We didn?t give up,? Smith told this writer in reference to the 1963 expedition. ?We just ran out of money. We had spent $100,000, and when we ran out we were getting close to where Fiege found the bars.?

The Museum of New Mexico also wanted to get back in. In a 1965 application to return to the peak, the museum stated, ?The results of the exploration program conducted in 1963 proved the existence of a number of open cavities within Victorio Peak similar to those described by the individual who claimed to have been in the caves and seen the artifacts and treasure.?

And yet, through the 1960s and 1970s, the Army would repeatedly and falsely state that the 1963 expedition had ?proved? there were no caves or caverns.

According to Sam Scott, a retired airline pilot who with his brother, Norman, led another expedition into the area in 1977, the Gaddis effort got very close to the fault which led down to the main cavern ? the passage which Doc Noss had apparently used to haul up hundreds of bars of gold.

The Army consistently misrepresented what occurred on the Gaddis expedition, citing the ?negative results? of the 1963 expedition as a reason all future treasure searches would forever be banned as a matter of official policy.

The reason was never sufficient, however. In the late 1960s and into the 1970s, pressure for a bona fide search for the treasure continued to mount.

Among the leaders in the push for a new expedition was nationally known attorney F. Lee Bailey, who represented a group of some 52 claimants to the gold. A search of at least a cursory nature seemed inevitable.

Another expedition to the peak was finally mounted. With a twist of irony, this very limited search was dubbed by the Army ?Operation Goldfinder.? Although brief and tightly constrained, it became the ultimate excuse to ban people from Victorio Peak.

The ostensible purpose of Goldfinder, as expressed at the time by expedition leader Norman Scott, was to ?validate or not validate? stories about the gold and other treasure.

When contacted, Scott said that he and his company, Expeditions Unlimited Inc. of Pompano Beach, Florida, had been ?used? by the Army.

Asked to elaborate, Scott expressed the theory that he had served as a ?patsy? to give the appearance of a search in order to release the tremendous pressure that had been brought to bear on the Army by F. Lee Bailey and others.

One of the claimants to the gold who was there during Operation Goldfinder was Joe Newman of El Paso, Texas. Newman told this writer that he had found three piles of gold bars in a small cave within the peak in November 1973. He counted the bars in one pile ? there were 600. The other piles were identical. Each bar, he said, weighed up to 60 pounds. They were roughly formed, as though from a primitive smelting process.

Newman provided photographs to Freedom showing extensive activity around Victorio Peak shortly before Operation Goldfinder. According to Newman, the photographs demonstrate that Victorio Peak gold was removed just weeks before the expedition.

By the time of Operation Goldfinder, the entrance Newman used to gain access to the small cavern was covered up by the Army. All possible entrances to the peak, according to Newman, had been sealed with concrete, steel bars, steel plates, mounds of earth, or two or more of those in combination.

?There was no way in hell we could get in there without heavy equipment,? Newman said. ? And then we showed up there without bulldozers, without backhoes, without anything but picks and shovels.?

When heavy equipment finally did arrive at the site, both Newman and Sam Scott charge, its use was restricted to locations where ?we knew there wasn?t any gold.?

Attorney F. Lee Bailey had similar words. Bailey acknowledged that his group ? one of a half-dozen claimant groups on the expedition ? had been stopped in its efforts to dig at Bloody Hands, a site in an arroyo by Victorio Peak so named because of five red hand prints on the arroyo wall.

Because those he represented couldn?t look where they wanted to, Bailey told this writer that the expedition ?didn?t really prove anything one way or another.?

There was universal agreement among all of the participants interviewed ? except for Army spokesmen ? that the 1977 expedition had been poorly executed and had not satisfactorily explored for gold.

Sam Scott charged that the expedition was ?conceived to fail.? He continued, ?I originally made arrangements for a 60-day expedition. The Army cut that down to 30 and then to 10.?

Nearly 19 years after he had made the dramatic three-stack find, Leonard Fiege crawled down the long passage which led to the same room. In the intervening years, much had changed.

As Fiege told newsmen during Operation Goldfinder, ?It?s entirely different. There are timbers in there now. It?s all shored up.? And the gold was gone.

 
Ova Noss continued to press the family?s claim to the treasure after Doc Noss was shot and killed in 1949. Here she makes a point during Operation Goldfinder in 1977. 
Ova Noss climbed to the top of the peak. In the same place she had scraped the crusty covering from the first bar Doc had brought out of the mountain in 1937, 40 years before, the 81-year-old Ova shouted to the wind, ?Goddamn Army took the gold!?

While the gold had apparently been removed right from under the claimaints? noses, Operation Goldfinder was important in that it provided high-tech proof that Victorio Peak harbored a very sizable cave. Using sophisticated ground-penetrating radar, a team from Stanford Research Institute headed by Lambert Dolphin determined that there indeed was a very large cavern situated right at the base of Victorio Peak. ?It?s about where Doc Noss said it is,? Dolphin told this writer.

The geological structure of the peak is odd, according to Dolphin. Regarding the cavern, he said that ?It?s an unusual geological formation, more or less a freak of nature, but it?s there.?

Dolphin is one of the many Goldfinder participants who sought to return to the site. His scientific interest was not shared by the Army, which summarily turned down his 1977 request for re-entry.

Dolphin would like to reach the big cavern, and he had the idea of lowering a remotely operated television camera through a shaft in order to see what remains in the cave described by Doc Noss as being ?big enough for a freight train.?

Expressing a thought echoed by virtually everyone interviewed for this article, outside of military spokesmen, Dolphin said that the Army had been very active in and around the mountain. ?Everybody who was there would like to know why the Army dug up the mountain so thoroughly,? said Dolphin. ?You could see they went in through the existing openings, explored them, and then covered them over.?

One source familiar with Victorio Peak?s history who asked to remain unidentified described the mountain as being ?like a hotel.? There were ?five layers of caverns in that mountain,? he said.

The top caverns or rooms held ?as little as 10 or 15 tons? of gold, according to this source. The bigger caverns were not all cleared out until the 1970s.

Operation Goldfinder ?was all basically a show,? said Sam Scott. ?Something the Army could turn around and say ? ?See? This proves there?s no gold!??

But, at the time, the Victorio Peak show was one of the hottest things around. Scores of reporters from various news media were on hand, including CBS-TV?s Dan Rather.

According to several sources, Lady Byrd Johnson, the widow of former President Lyndon Johnson, reportedly called White Sands every day during the expedition in order to be kept posted.

This writer endeavored to reach Mrs. Johnson but was told that any questions had to be submitted via a staff assistant in Austin, Texas.

The answer that came back was that ?Mrs. Johnson has no knowledge about that [the phone calls] at all.? The assistant said that Lady Byrd ?was entertaining friends here? at the time of the expedition, and, she asserted, ?Mrs. Johnson just doesn?t do things like that. It would be out of character for her.?2

By the last day of Operation Goldfinder, a carefully orchestrated public relations scenario had apparently done its work. Those most closely connected with the treasure had seen their dreams trampled and their claims ridiculed. For them, the 1977 expedition must have represented the end of any hope of confirmation of what they knew to be true.

One of these people was Leonard Fiege.

Sam Scott and Fiege were close friends. According to Scott, ?Fiege was threatened. He didn?t like to talk about it. But that?s why he left the 1977 expedition early.?

In an affidavit in the possession of Freedom, Thayer Snipes of El Paso, Texas, confirms the threat and sheds some additional light on the overall situation.

The affidavit states that Snipes first met Dr. Robert Welch of Denver, Colorado, around 1975 or 1976. Welch, according to the affidavit, went to Snipes? home on several occasions to buy turquoise for jewelry .

On one of these occasions, the affidavit states, Welch gave Snipes his business card. The card identified Welch as a medical doctor and a psychiatrist, although he jokingly referred to himself as a ?head shrinker.?

The subject of treasure at Victorio Peak came up on one occasion. On this occasion, according to Snipes? affidavit, ?Dr. Welch stated that a U.S. Air Force captain had been sent to his office by the military.?

Snipes continues, ?Dr. Welch stated that ?the military wanted this man to be put away,? which he further explained as meaning locked away in an insane asylum.

? ... Dr. Welch stated that on numerous occasions he hypnotized the captain.

? ... while under hypnosis, the captain told him he had found gold bars in a cave in Victorio Peak.

? ... also while under hypnosis, the captain stated he had held gold bars in his hands and had covered up stacks of gold bars with rocks and dirt, intending to return later and retrieve the treasure legally.

? ... Dr. Welch stated that he felt he could not put this man away because he was telling him the truth about the gold, and that he could not lie while under hypnosis.?

Snipes? affidavit states that ?I later met U.S. Air Force Captain Leonard V. Fiege while on the March 1977 expedition to Victorio Peak.

? ... while on the expedition, I told Captain Fiege the story in front of several witnesses.

? ... Captain Fiege?s reaction to the story was one of extreme surprise and shock.

? ... Captain Fiege said he remembered being sent to a psychiatrist named Robert Welch by the military, but that he did not realize that he had been hypnotized.?

According to the affidavit, ?Captain Fiege said he had been shipped overseas after finding gold in Victorio Peak, and that he had been ?harassed ever since? by the military.?

The affidavit states that Fiege ?said he was going to investigate the matter of his visits to the psychiatrist and see what had happened during those visits.?

The affidavit closes with the statement that ?Captain Fiege left the expedition a couple of days later, saying that he and his family had been threatened with death if he continued his efforts to prove gold had been in Victorio Peak.?

Fiege did leave the expedition, but, as described by Sam Scott and others, threats did not shut him up.

Scott signed a sworn affidavit regarding the harassment and intimidation leveled at Fiege which only ended with his death in 1979.

According to this affidavit, ?I can recall many occasions (probably 10) that Leonard told me about his harassments and the threats to his and his children?s lives. For example, the time that Leonard spoke to a Lion?s Club luncheon in Milwaukee, only to be threatened that night on the telephone. Then there was the time that he was told at supper time what his kids had for lunch in the school cafeteria, their route to and from school, times, etc. Again, a nasty voice on the telephone ? a threat on their lives.?

In a personal interview, Fiege?s daughter, Jan, confirmed for this writer the fact of the threats which plagued the family. In 1971 or 1972, for example, shortly after moving to Denton, Texas, she received a phone call from her father telling her that he had just received a call threatening all three of his children if he did not keep his mouth shut about Victorio Peak. Fiege had called her to see if she was all right. The caller knew where all three of his children were, Fiege told his daughter. He even knew that Jan had just taken a job at a diner in Denton. The bewildered Fiege told his daughter that with the operator?s help he had been able to trace the call to Kansas City, Missouri ? hundreds of miles from himself in Wisconsin and from his daughter in Texas.

According to Jan, she returned to the family home in Eau Claire, Wisconsin, not too long after that and heard a threatening voice on the phone there herself. The male caller told her that unless her father shut up about Victorio Peak, someone was ?going to die.?

Similar threats were made to others. Harvey Snow, for example, was told over the phone where each of his five children were by geographic coordinates ? including a son who was on a U.S. Navy ship in the Pacific at the time. Snow was told to stay away from White Sands Missile Range or his children would be killed. Snow disregarded the warning, and his youngest daughter was found shot to death shortly thereafter.

A grandson of Ova Noss described an apparent attempt on Ova?s life to Freedom. Shortly after the expedition, someone entered her house at night by forcing a window. The intruder turned on the gas on the stove. ?If we hadn?t gotten there,? the grandson said, ?in 10 or 15 minutes, she would have had it.?

As it was, Ova had to be hospitalized. The grandson mentioned that after the expedition, Ova?s home was broken into two or three more times. Various items connected to Doc Noss? treasure were stolen.

By the end of 1979, both Leonard Fiege and Ova Noss ? the two major living claimants to the gold ? were dead.

While it cannot be proven that their names should join the roster of people who died in connection with an apparently violent cover-up of the removal of gold from Victorio Peak, their deaths did mark the end of vigorous pursuit of the gold by active claimants.

Nearly 10 years after Operation Goldfinder failed to answer the many questions about Victorio Peak, the mystery surrounding the treasure has deepened and darkened.




References:
1 ?Explorations at Victorio Peak,? by Chester R. Johnson Jr., Division of Research, Museum of New Mexico, 1963. Freedom Magazine obtained copies of both the censored and uncensored reports, as well as copies of the affidavits mentioned above from the four men.
2 For the role that President Johnson played in the removal of tons of gold bullion from Victorio Peak, see Part 1.   
   
       
   
 
 
 
   
   
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Once the "gold" is refined it is impossible to tell where it came from,but when it is in nugget-raw form one can get a generalized indication of the area of which it came from.
Heck back in the sixties we did a lot for them Arab countries because we had interests there(OIL)

Hi Judy, Capt Bill knows a whole lot more than I do about this,my interests are above Alamogordo,up in a canyon a ways.
It would seem to me that uncle sam got the stash,from Victorio Peak,but there are other stashes in the area ;)
My research/findings have been aways north of there

This is what I like to find

Right out of the horse's mouth,I think Capt Bill knows who wrote this



Hi Royster
I'm going to pop a little known fact out of the bag here.
Pedro Santa Maria Guadalupe Navarez was a Nobleman of a very wealthy Family of Spain.
A descendant of a Spanish Knights Templar of the 14th century after the Escape from France to Spain by the French faction of the Knights Templar during their persecution By King Phillipe of France.
Pedro Navarez, Known as El Chato, had come to the Messilla Valley to the village of Dona' Ana in search of a legacy brought here by his Grand father in 1602, Pedro arrived about 1639 or so.
He was in the Organ Mountains, where he and his antourage became involved with some halfbreed spanish and indian Bandits.
He turned to Banditry.
He was captured by some Monks when he tried to capture a wagon train out of El Paso del norte; the Monks had set up a trap to capture him and his followers by using the old trojan Horse method.
When Pedro Swooped down on the Crts and wagons, They found the armed Monks jumping out and fireing into them.
He was captured, in 1649 and taken to Mexico City where he was tried and hung for his crimes.
Before his execution, he gave a confession to a priest stating where every thing he had collected and the gold that was already in the mountains when he came here and found it was at.
This document was taken to the Convent San Agustine and left with the Mother Superior of that Convent in Mexico city.
During this Capture, Back inside the Organs, at a spring at the base of a tall peak was camped the women and children of the Bandits.
Along 1921 in the town of Messillia was Born One Samuel Navarez, a direct descendant of Pedro Navarez. 'alias' El Chato.
This Samuel Navarez grew up and fought in W.W.II,
When he got out of the army, he came to Redondo beach California and settled into a Job with an Aerospace firm there.
I by Chance met Samuel, and we would spend some after noons drinking coffee and absorbing each others stories.
In the late '80's, Samuel Pass away.
Sam Had a map, also a rediterrio, (letter of direction)
The Map he had matched the Organ Mountains.
Not the San Andreas or Hembrillo basin.
Here I will state it as the fact that it actually is.
The Primary Gold deposited in Victorio Peak was of ANCIENT MANUFACTURE AND DATES WAY BACK THOUSANDS OF YEARS.
The primary deposit of that gold is known not only by myself, But also it is in the Top Secret Documents of our Governments files and Documents that I was Authorized to review.
In 1961, our soon to be President of that time KNEW of the Gold, and whom it belonged to.
Not only myself, but many of my family members KNOW this exact truth.
President Kennedy signed an Executive order concerning that Gold , and in my Mothers effects at the time of her death was a copy of this Executive Order.
That Copy of that order was given to me at the age of 6 years old. the order has my name as well as others whom I know on it.
If we are to talk of Pedro Navarez and his loot being the source for all the gold in Victorio Peak, then we are mistaken.
The story of Pedro Being Tortured is most Likely False, He disired to absolve himself of his sins, and the revealing of the loots hideing place was his way of doing so. If torture was used then the people who tortured him would have been in the mountains Johnny on the spot, For Greed would have caused them to fly like the wind to it.
The Navarez Document is a Church Document of Confession of sins. Not a Document Gleamed from Torture, and written by a thug, which would not have the ability to write a word.
Yeah Royster, it's a bitch that I know so many FACTS about this subject, can you imagine the folks who have been using the Gold out of Victorio peak as Colatoreal for loans for so many years if all of a sudden the Documents pop up and their pants are down and their cover is blown.
Well ,,,,, anything can happen at this stage of life.
Of course, if you wish to believe the false hoods of vicky peak, we can all go over to the whitesands website and read the Military Version.
anyway,,, happy hippie holidays to you all.
Rog'
p.s. if there's nothing to cover up, then why is it being covered up ? why bother ?

VICTORIA PEAK GOLD

I have no idea from whence all this gold came, but
it is a KGC cache buried under the auspices of none
other than Albert Pike, the wizard of the KGC. .I didn't
try to identifyall that were present, but Jacob Waltz
was one of them. Since this is a KGC cache, the way-
bill may still be locked away in some old trunk and may
surface someday. Albert Pike also buried a huge cache
in Scotland that I discovered.

Howso

Thanks for all the great info and / or theories.  When I was a young private in the early 90's, I was stationed at Ft Bliss which is a couple hours from victorio peak.  I heard the legend about the gold and wondered if it was true.  I think its feasible that the greedy brass and politicians pocketed it long before I was there (or even born?).  I guess the only thing left would be the stray bars that Noss burried in the desert.  I've seen maps of the vast area between Las Cruces and Victorio Peak.  Those bars could be anywhere.  I also heard that some of his relatives or associates went back and dug up some of the bars.  Anyone know of any pictures of these?   I wonder where they originally came from.  I heard it was spanish gold either from Coronado or some priest that was running a mine.

=Albert Osborn
 Albert Pike also buried a huge cache
in Scotland    "that I discovered".
Howso
*****
Hi busom buddy, ole pal , fellow treasure hunter,    err ah about my projects ------? 

Honestly, I hope this wasn't a typo.  We need success symbols!

Tropical Tramp        ---------------e\__$$???$$$__/  hehehe.

=Albert Osborn
 Albert Pike also buried a huge cache
in Scotland    "that I discovered".
Howso
*****
Hi busom buddy, ole pal , fellow treasure hunter,    err ah about my projects ------? 

Honestly, I hope this wasn't a typo.  We need success symbols!

Tropical Tramp        ---------------e\__$$???$$$__/  hehehe.

Albert is a dowser. He has found treasure all over the place.

Mike

[OUTSIDE]

Anyone want to see about getting into that second entrance ? 
This is the entrance, that is OUTSIDE of the Govt., White Sands,  Property?
It is in a remote area,
But, access to it is fairly easy!
If ! you know where to look! 

Doesn't really matter which entrance you use. All the gold was moved out of there in the mid sixties. I recently read a statement by an MP who said that the final estimates of the gold taken out of Victorio Peak was about 93 MILLION troy ounces (93,000,000). That's a spicy meata ball!!


Mike

[WHO!]

Gollum:
Yep!
You're right!  ;)
I just thought that maybe that there might just be an adventurous someone out there !
WHO! ...
Might want to explore it
As, from my info, THIS entrance/tunnel is quite long!
It may lead other places!
SAY!
Are you still working on that Spanish mine/tunnel, that you found, in the desert ?
I hope ! to be in Ariz. this coming month.
When's I'll have unlimited time! 
HINT!   HINT!

[WHO!]

Gollum:
Yep!
You're right!  ;)
I just thought that maybe that there might just be an adventurous someone out there !
WHO! ...
Might want to explore it
As, from my info, THIS entrance/tunnel is quite long!
It may lead other places!
SAY!
Are you still working on that Spanish mine/tunnel, that you found, in the desert ?
I hope ! to be in Ariz. this coming month.
When's I'll have unlimited time! 
HINT!   HINT!

I'm still working it, but other things are starting to take priority over that. I've got the 50 foot tall heart, something going on in Southern Az (but I won't be going out there till fall sometime), Pancho Villa's Rifles, another canyon in this area that has a ton of monuments. I think I need to form an LLC and put a team together. It's tiresome and takes forever.

That shaft has had a couple of small cave-ins making it impassible. Just finished a 1/18th scale rock crawler chassis with a mounted wireless camera. Works beautifully!


Mike

I guess if there is any stray gold left around victorio peak, it would be the bars that Doc Noss never went back to dig up.  I'm guessing if he was using a vehicle when he was taking the gold out to bury, those things could be anywhere.  I would assume close to dirt roads as I doubt anyone would want to lug the heavy bars far.  Especially an old man.     Other thing is there is a remote chance that someone who recovered the gold would have missed a cavern and left some behind in the mountain.  That would be pure chance though.  Anyone think of putting some info on the theories on wikipedia.org , the online encyclopedia?  I searched there first and it doesn't say much at all.  Chris.

I KNOW SOMETHING that no one else is aware of !   
THAT IS!
There is a cache that The US Army Missed !
It's smaller,
But! HEY!
Gold Bars ARE! Gold BARS! 
I know better than to ask if anyone is willing to take a risk and have a "GO" !
Even tho,
There's very little chance of being caught, But! ......   
Also!
A Famous Metal Detector Manufacturer Personally told a Friend & Self,
About a cave with stacks of gold bars, "finger bar" size, just inside, 3 miles, the fence!
He brought out about 60 lbs worth !
AND!
Yes!
He is still making MD's ..... (Which means, he's still alive and kicking!)
I have his complete directions to the cave !
PS: A very small portion of The Entrance,
can actually be seen from Point of Rock's, "Grama Peak", with binocs!   ;)

This is the latest:  http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,69096.0.html

Anyone who is interested in joining us in a serious attempt to secure this treasure, check it out!

One question - are you soliciting funds for this hunt?  No, two - are you totally naive?  No offense, but anyone knowledgeable of the history and legal status of Hembrillo Basin will laugh you out of the room.

I don't think I'm totally naive, but I suppose it's possible.  I was stationed at White Sands Missile Range as a JAG officer for almost three years between 97 and 99.  During that time, our office was litigating the Ova Noss Family Partnership lawsuit, and all of the decades of Army files were stored in our offices. 

Part of the lawsuit was a discovery process where the plaintiffs were required to turn over all of their files for our inspection.  Those files were voluminous to say the least.  Based on my research, I am convinced that there is something out there in the caverns below the surface, and I am also convinced that the Army tried to get in and take the caches, but were unsuccessful in doing so.  Obviously I cannot reveal any classified or priviledged facts, but I am entitled to have an opinion, and I would venture to say that it is probably a pretty well informed opinion.

Thus far, I haven't been laughed out of any rooms.  To the contrary, there has been a very strong response.

To answer your first question, I am not raising funds yet, but funding is always an integral part of any serious Treasure Hunting expedition, so we will have to get to that eventually.

Why do you believe your organization will be issued a permit? 

It isn't that hard to do, it just requires a substantial investment in lobbying the appropriate decision makers.  Kind of like that guy Abramoff, except not illegal.  As you saw from his misadventures, it isn't that hard to get high level access if you have plenty of cash to donate to the right (or in his case, wrong) causes.  We wouldn't be asking for anything anyway, we would be offering a valuable service.  The details on that are for folks who want to join the team.

I'm sure there are plenty of folks out there who will salivate over this scheme.  All I have to say is, "Caveat emptor".

It is a very interesting and ironic situation.  I am not a treasure hunter, but my father in law is, and the map is his.  I'm not interested in going after the treasure personally, but because of my background, experience, and knowledge of the case, I am probably in as good a position as anyone on earth to put the deal together and help the treasure seekers go for it.

Caveat Emptor is good advice.  There are numerous con artists out there trying to run Treasure Hunting scams.  My plan would only allow half of all investment funds to go to Treasure Hunting while the rest would be invested in §1031 tax free real estate investments.  That way nobody could likely lose more than half of their investment, and if properly managed, they would actually make some financial profit over time, even if we can't get to the treasure.

  Here's a little more info: http://www.wsmr.army.mil/pao/VictorioPeak/vipt1.htm   

                                  Joe

I just received a very rare copy of the official Army records relating to the Victorio Peak mine.  My first thought was "Wow, how did he get his hands on this," followed by "Wow, this looks exactly like the documents I saw as a JAG officer at WSMR," followed by "WOW, THIS CONFIRMS MY LOCATION THEORY...".  Check out the page that I posted at http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,69096.0.html - neat stuff.  The documents also corroborated my long held beliefs as to why neither the government nor the various claimants to the treasure has yet found the lost caches out there in the desert.  Enjoy...

DOC NOSS

1/2 Hour after a Partner Shot him
in 1949 in a Dispute over Gold.
Doc was running for his own Pistol
at the moment he was shot.

Great Photo Jeff!  I am going to use it in my slide show.  Remember what I said about the leading cause of failure to recover the treasure being greed of various family, "friends" and "partners"?

Didn't I see an episode of Unsolved Mysteries that proved the U.S. Army had indeed gained access to and remove LARGE amounts of gold. There was an Army guy named Orby Swaner who told people for years that in the 60's or 70's while he was in the Army that he was part of the excavation team that went inside Victorio Peak and removed all the gold. Then years later (90's I assume) someone (can't remember who, and interestingly the WSMR website ends the story in July '92, just as the expedition is about to breach the entrance) finally accessed the tunnel and got into the now empty vault. And lo and behold inscribed on one of the walls was the name Orby Swaner, his Army serial #, date and possibly some reference to the gold? I may have got a small detail or two wrong, but that was essentially the story.

                                                           Pan Man

I believe there was such an episode of Unsolved Mysteries, but I'm quite certain that their conclusion was erroneous.  Swanner's statements were believed by many "in the know" to have been obtained by the Noss Family Partnership in exchange for a portion of their government recovery in the lawsuit.  In other words, his story about removing the gold was fabricated to help the Noss group win in court.

This may or may not be true, but based on the miniscule size of the exploration party that went into the caves, I doubt they could have removed that much gold so quickly.  I have seen the government's files on Victorio Peak (or at least enough of them to separate most of the fact from fiction), and they reveal the story about gold removal to be a myth.  Although I did not have access to the files (i.e. could not remove them), I have now obtained exact copies of some of the government's files and am posting some portions of them here on Tnet.

One other important issue is the fact that Noss entered the Peak from one location, while Fiege, Swanner, et al entered from a different location.  There are believed to be at least seven caves leading beneath the peak.

I see. They did show a photo of the inscription during the broadcast, but quite possibly it was a recreation for "dramatic purposes". With 2 definite entrances, and possibly up to 7, Doc's being at the "12:00" position, I can't understand how the folks in '77 and more recently in the '90's can't even find 1. It just doesn't seem to make sense unless someone with a good amount of resources (i.e. the Army) sealed them very well. What reason wold they have to do that unless it was to cover the fact that there's no longer the rich deposit of gold as there once was, not to mention the fact they seem to be making it very difficult for anyone to actually spend the proper amount of time searching. I'm not talking years, but why not let a professional team have about 2 or 3 months of unfettered access. Let 'em have at it with cameras and equipment for 90 days and end the speculation once and for all if they have nothing to hide. It's frustrating.

But, I would like to see the copies when you post them.

They didn't seal it to keep you from bringing out the gold.  Doc Noss took care of that in 1939 when he blew the living daylights out of the shaft trying to expand it.  Of course, it collapsed instead, and the chambers in which the caches are hidden have thus been sealed for almost 70 years. 

The reason the Army sealed all of the entrances was to keep pesky treasure hunters out of the range.  By putting impenetrable doors over the known entrances to the caves they reasoned, potential treasure hunters would be discouraged.  Unfortunately, this resulted in a massive conspiracy theory in which the Army somehow removed all of the gold and gave it to LBJ, the CIA, or some other nefarious group.  I don't believe any of that is true, but it is possible, at least in theory.

I just received a very rare copy of the official Army records relating to the Victorio Peak mine.  My first thought was "Wow, how did he get his hands on this," followed by "Wow, this looks exactly like the documents I saw as a JAG officer at WSMR," followed by "WOW, THIS CONFIRMS MY LOCATION THEORY...".  Check out the page that I posted at http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,69096.0.html - neat stuff.  The documents also corroborated my long held beliefs as to why neither the government nor the various claimants to the treasure has yet found the lost caches out there in the desert.  Enjoy...

A friend whose family has been directly involved with Victorio Peak since the Noss days sent me the following appraisel of your document:

The redetereo actualy reads like this
 
ENTER THE CANYON OF THE SOLEDAD
FIND THE SPRING THERE
THIS IS THE FIRST WATER OF THE SOLEDAD
AND RUNS OFF INTO THE PLAIN BELOW
 
anyway, if these gooks think that letter applies to Vickey Peak they're full of s___ (sic)
 
That letter is directing you into Filmore canyon and the treasure is LOOOOONG gone from there
 
Tillie Teijas of Tula Rosa had the Original Letter
Her BOYFRIEND ( Vehil ) STOLE IT FROM HER
THEN, he sold it to a guy from El Paso.
Frank Foss was the buyer
 
  copies have floated for years, ever since the "40"s

A difference of opinion it seems.  To all: be careful how you spend your hard-earned money.

[Winter Research]

Winter Research

This winter I thought I'd start putting a few of my files online (have quite a few I'd like to put up).

Even though it is pretty much a dead end anymore, I thought you guys might enjoy my

Victorio Peak Database

http://www.salars.net/treasure-hunting/victorio-peak-database.html

I'm putting most of the names, places, etc in Wiki form - it's nice because it allows you to add categories like years, etc and you can see how one event may have influenced another.

(feel free to contribute any info you have by becoming a registered member of the wiki or add a treasure story if you'd like to my treasure hunting category of the site)

Wiki: http://www.salars.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:Userlogin&type=signup

Submit Legends: http://www.salars.net/register/


Looks like warmer weather is finally showing up and maybe I can get out again, but I've always considered research to be the bread and butter of any good hunter.

Good advice, Springfield.  There have been con artists of every description since Noss and even before who have preyed on Treasure Hunters. 

Your friend’s interpretation is interesting, but I ran it by the Executive Search Committee, and they are fairly certain it is a different map.  There is no reference in our map to any “first water”, nor is there a second reference to the name Soledad.  In addition, our reference to Soledad is not to the canyon of Soledad, but to the “sierra” of Soledad.

As your friend probably already knows, “`Soledad’ was the former name of Victorio Peak.” – from http://www.theoutlaws.com/gold7.htm. 

It seems he is fairly certain that this “Soledad” is not Victorio Peak.  Our group believes that it is more likely to be a location other than Victorio Peak, but we have an alternate theory that the location is very close to Victorio Peak.  In addition, we are not looking at Filmore canyon at all.

We would definitely be interested in hearing more from your friend, especially if he has a copy of any of the maps that were so plentiful.  If our map is not an original and unique copy, we want to know that immediately.  PM me if your friend wants to exchange some information – if he has a copy of the map that he says is the same as ours, he can fax it to me or scan and e-mail it for comparison. 

We were especially intrigued by your friend’s account of the letter, how it was stolen, etc.  I find the story very believable because it has all the makings of a scam.  Con artists know that if they draw you into something illegal, you won’t tell the police once you are ripped off.  So they give you the impression that the letter is “hot”, and because you know you are accepting stolen goods, you won’t complain after handing over your money.

If your friend was involved with any of the various missions targeting Victorio Peak since the Noss days, he or she can certainly testify as to the quantity and quality of con artists and scammers that took money from investors.  Your friend is especially welcome to come to our meeting in El Paso if he or she would like to contribute to the discussion or share some insights.  There is no mandatory donation, although we will accept donations to cover the cost of the event, and in exchange for the donations we will raffle off a piece of artwork (see below) that includes some great Treasure Hunting finds.

Homesteader,

    Thanks for sharing your research.  I have to admit that I have been looking at your research already and I'm glad to say I found it quite useful.  - TaxLawyer

Glad to hear it TaxLawyer!

My idea is to put what I have or can find out as a basic skeleton on some of the more popular treasure tales and hopefully will have others come forth with more info or theories as we go along.

Kind of a reference database that can be added to, edited, etc by others and used for quick reference.

To whom it may concern, in the matter of the victorio peak treasure.  Remember the story of missing gold from Fort Knox somewheres around 1970  to 72.  I beleived back then and still do that there was a conection between the missing gold story of fort Knox and the Dock Noss treasure being of the same gold.  only it may have been deposited at the denver mint or fort Knox and switched for currency.  At any rate some one evidently knew of this gold movement, and didn't know if it was taken out of or placed in fort knox in that time frame of the early 70s.  Seems as there would be some records of deposits some wheres to track such an large amount of gold..  Just my thoughts on the subject  thanks nickel

To whom it may concern, in the matter of the victorio peak treasure.  Remember the story of missing gold from Fort Knox somewheres around 1970  to 72.  I beleived back then and still do that there was a conection between the missing gold story of fort Knox and the Dock Noss treasure being of the same gold.  only it may have been deposited at the denver mint or fort Knox and switched for currency.  At any rate some one evidently knew of this gold movement, and didn't know if it was taken out of or placed in fort knox in that time frame of the early 70s.  Seems as there would be some records of deposits some wheres to track such an large amount of gold..  Just my thoughts on the subject  thanks nickel

Don't think so nickeyl,

Doc Noss found this cache in 1937, and it was supposedly mostly removed by about 1965 (give or take a few years).

Best,

Mike

I know a guy who is extremely knowledgeable about the Victorio Peak situation past and present.  He is strongly convinced that the government *did* swipe a bunch of gold (but not all of it) from the peak.  His reasoning and knowledge of the case are convincing, but my opinion is that they never could find so much as a bar of lead, let alone a bunch of gold bars.  Of course, I know my position could be incorrect, and I am willing to listen to his opinion and review his research.  It is somewhat an academic pursuit for me, but it is interesting to discuss the mystery and share knowledge and understanding of such an important historical phenomenon. 

Everyone has the right to their interpretation of the truth surrounding this legend.  My habit is to consider the positions and evidence offered by others.  Minds are like parachutes - they can't function unless open.

The latest release from my (formerly) secret collection of Army documents from White Sands.

I was just doing some research for the great granddaughter of Ova Noss, it's very interesting all the postings.  The grandson showed me many documents, photos, even a gold bar when the daughter (his mother) of Ova Noss died.  He spent many hours telling me the story.  At this point I have encouraged him, if anything, to have the story published, since there are many points that many don't know about which I think are more intriguing than any Hollywood movie (i.e., National Treasure).  Problem is finding someone who knows how to write.  Any suggestions?

 As far as finding someone to write... thats easy. There are 100's of writer out there that would do it for a fee or a % of the book. Just ask some of these writers for a sample and then choose one. You might what to find someone who is into Thing. That way it should read ALOT better. Just goggle writers and freelance or for hire.

PLL

Gollum,
Ever look at a map of the area. If you go north from El Paso it follows I 25 towards T or C and if you were to turn East around a days ride from El Paso it would put you right in the Hembrillo basin which is the location of V peak. You are right it is on the western edge of the range.

I read through these forums a lot, but have never registered or posted until now. I am currently working with a tribe from the AZ/NM area on something in Eastern Ca. In our discussions, the story of the VP Gold came up. This tribe fought against the Chiricahua Apache all through the late 1700's until the mid 1800's, until the whites became the common enemy. They believe that the gold was amassed from years of raiding Mexicans and Whites. My friends said that their tribe at first left any gold right where it fell as they had no use for it at the time. Later they took to hiding it so the whites and Mexicans wouldn't come looking for it. Some think it is all in one spot and others think it is all spread around so nobody could accidently find it all at once.

This could not be Padre LaRue's gold for the simple reason that the directions given to the Padre by the old man were; "One days travel North of El Paso del Norte until you see three peaks. Upon first site of these peaks turn Eastward and cross the desert towards the mountains. In the mountains you will find a basin, where there is a spring at the foot of a solitary peak. On this peak you will find gold." Padre LaRue moved his flock to that basin. Nowhere near Victorio Peak which is near the Western Edge of White Sands Missile Test Range.

Not likely to be Maximillian's Gold either as most current wisdom places that square in Texas.

Montezuma's Treasure seems out because there would be nothing newer than the 1500's, and none likely to be in ingot form.

It's amazing the things that some people post without doing even a little research.

Here is a link to the book that Capt. Bill mentioned.


http://www.amazon.com/tons-gold-Dav...books&qid=1181430143&sr=8-1

  Nothing new since 3 Apr?

Welllllll,,,,  Hello kiddies, I read here where i've been quoted much      To answer the many querys  ,,, hell NO the government has not succeded in killing me as yet,,,I'm still alive and investigating.                                        El chatos loot is in Soledad canyon and adjoining areas as i before stated , the blorf I read here is disturbing. uninformed 3rd hand snot.   sorry dudes, thats why i bailed the bs popstand,,,,,,  see ya's      Rog'

Hey Roger,

Glad to hear you are still kicking.
Stay safe

OD

Rog , check your emails , been trying to get a hold of you !
Thanks
MB

This is the first time I've been on this site in a few years. I have kind of scrolled through some of the posts in here. Pretty wild how many people there are connected to this in one way or another. I am 40 yrs. old and live in Las Cruces,NM. I had become friends with a grandson of Ova Noss up until he passed away summer of 2003 from stroke then heart attack. After the funeral at Ft. Bliss, I got to meet some of the people who were on the Victorio Peak project at the house that used to be their home base here in Las Cruces. I got to find out many interesting things, including seeing actual maps of the two tunnels they were digging to reach the room up until they got into it again with the Army.

Also, I saw some of you mention the book "100 tons of Gold." Don't know how many of you are aware that author Jack Staley has been re-writing that book with things that should have been included in the first version. I believe it's going to be re-titled "400 tons of Gold."

I had determined a long time ago that Victorio Peak is not only the La Rue mine, but also is the Seven Cities of Cibola as well. Even though I gave up on this story long ago and prefer to hunt Pedro Nevarez's cache's, it is nice to see there is still so much interest in this legend which may very well be one of the biggest tales in the treasure hunting realm.

Hi all,

Got the book, 100 tons of gold. Fascinating.

If only Doc Noss had approached the recovery a bit differently.

And burning all those historical documents makes me sick....

Hey, Capt. Bill what else can you add in the way of information that might not have been in the book??

[60/70]

Gold Needle:
The German "U" Boat that I mentioned, is going to be much easier/cheaper, to salvage/locate/ &  to dive on!
Than the one you are referring to in San Francisco Bay!
First off!
I have seen u/w actual photos of this/the "Bot" ...
Not! Taken by me, but by the original finder, now deceased!   
It is in about 60/70 foot (deep) of water, clear water too!
Not like the conditions, anything like, around S.F. Bay !   
AND!
There are no currents, like there are in San Fran Bay !
Besides, I live here and have been to, camped on the shore,  opposite & within 1 1/2 miles of this "scuttled" ( NOT SUNK!) Sub!
The logistics of a "salvage dive" in California, for me, would  be "Horrendous" !
Why hasn't anyone out there done a "dive" ?
Or! Atleast
Dropped an U/W Camera down on it, to see or prove it's exsistance ? 
They're, U/W cameras, are not all that expensive, I own two of them !
OH!
By the way,
"ROV" = Remote Operated Vehicle"!
In this case, U/W ROV !
I'm working on building one, right now!

Hi Capt Bill,

Well, this sub has been located by others but the Navy runs off people from the site or near it.

The old Navy vet. could not find the exact location but had a company called Video Ray offering a ROV.

You are right about the diving conditions, horrible and dangerous. And you did forget to mention the sharks. That area is the breeding grounds for the Great White Sharks. If they invite you to dinner politely decline and clear the area.

But what makes it so attractive is the fact that it is lost, and denied by the Navy and such an interesting piece of history.

But as you said, very difficult to find and dive on.

Gold Needle:
If you ever get down this way, So. Texas....near Padre and Matagordo Islands, let me know!
I am going to be refurbishing my boat and I hope to have it in the water by the end of summer!
So!
"We" can take a trip over the "Sub" and see what it looks like w/my U/W Camera!
Maybe, make a "dive" down there !
Any one else want to get involved ?
Drop me and "Bugs" a line
Or!
Reply here!
For more info!

Hi Capt Bill,

If I get down that way I will let you know.

How did you, the boat, and bugs weather the hurricane? Boat okay?

Must have churned up a lot of coins and jewels on the beaches there. Are you out with your metal detector looking for them? Some lost loot would pay for much of the boats overhaul.

Yep!
A handful of those 1554 Coins would sure buy a nice big salvage/dive Boat!
But!
We didn't get much of the hurricane.
Just about a one foot higher tide!
I'll have to wait for another, or, for the winter currents.
Which come in at a slightly different angle and bring up coins!
I'll be putting in a 50 hp larger motor (Inboard Engine) that'll give me more power to lenghten  (about 4' longer & a dive platform) the boat and carry more equipment

[The Truth!!]

!!!? ?No! Theories? ?!!!!
The Truth!!? ?
Doc Noss's Grandson, one of them, is my New Mexico partner!
I have seen some documents that would really rattle your cage ( To the very! foundation, too! ) !
I have heard from some of the actual particpates!
Our Govt. "? ' of the People !? "....
Really, Scary,? ?:-?  Believe me!

I saw a series of satellite images, bulldozers, moving equipment , the whole nine yards. then, they "rebuilt the mountain top like they were never there. It was military from start to finish. And, the cover up continues to this day, screwing all of Doc Noss's decendants out of their rightfull inheritance. Which btw, was whisked off to a mid-eastern desert ally-country location as payment. For what, i have no idea....stvn.

Next meeting is late Sept / early Oct - invite only.  Close to the site.

To begin
Vicky is a deposit site
ancient bars
not spaniard
secound
El Chato stuff is all in the Organs ( whats left of it)
He did not put all of that stuff there
some was already there.
start on soledad road at the base of soledad peak
there are cat-tails growing at a small surface spring
that croses the road from south to east.
look north from the cat-tails at the road
you will see the wash descends to the north and out into the mouth of rucker canyon.
in that wash are the small scoupes cut into the bedrock
to catch the gold
above those on the east side are the stone monuments
go to them
look at the smaller peak on the east that this is a part of
seek an entrance into that little peak
the entrance is covered.
further north, walk over the many boulders and stay  at a level
to your right ( east ) will be a very large boulder
under it is a round tunnel descending straight down
with steps carved spiraling down like a staircase.
this is before you reach the ruins of the old beasley trading post below.
you can see to the north of that boulder, out below you
the tortugas stone monuments.
back to the south across canyon look up at the bluffs.
near the top of the slope of ground leading up to the bluffs,
is a hugh boulder wedged at the confluence of a couple of washes.
this boulder has several rooms carved underneath it.
this is hotel rock as my dad called it.
It is one of El Chato's dwellings as he called it.
As you walk towars that boulder, watch all large boulders for stones on top of them.
a pointer stone will be on top of smaller boulders close to each
marker.
There is a low flat boulder close by, on top are small turtles pulling wagons
these are all rocks set up to appear to be turtles and carts
beneath this, is some of the burro loads of silver
TUFF DIGGING IT OUT!
Later, if this post remains, instead of disappearing, i'll say more
Out, Roger Snow

[Anyone care to explore it?]

No One has approached me about the 2nd entrance to the "Peak" that can be accessed from off the W.S.M.R.
How come ?
Are there no adventureers out there ?
Doc and his partner "Guy", (now living in San Diego)  not the one who shot "Doc", used to hide bars near where it came out!
(for emergency use )
I am certain that no "DogFace" ever found this tunnel/entrance!
It is "Miles" long !
                              Anyone care to explore it?

Bill,

It is also full of refuse , wreckage, and STUFF.
Give me an email when you are ready to chase this entrance.
Gad to meet and chase with you if the trail is worth following.
Personally I don't thoink so.
Thom
OD

[SORRY!]

You say
" It is also full of refuse, wreckage, and stuff "
How do you know this?
Do you know where this "entrance " is?
AND!
SORRY!
I am afraid that I cannot guarantee that any "Trail" that I am on, or ever be on,
 will be
                         "worth following"
Normally,
I have had many, many "dry" trails....     
Where I come away with just the pleasure of being "out" !
Sorry!
I will never make such a remark/statement !

Hey Cptbill

Im ready when you are....It would be an honor and a privilage to accompany you and "BUGS" on this Trek.You just say the word.............!

     Hey Commanchero, I have read the book 100 tons of gold and someone was supposedly drilling a tunnel into the peak this past year or so.  The pictures Ive seen of VP it is not that big of a rock pile and entrance to the cavern should have been made already and if so where are the pictures.  I also know from my reading that Doc Noss liberated another cavern of gb's and hid them out on the peak, which he later moved just before he was killed.  There is another cavern linked to the treasure cave I believe,again from my reading.  If NASA can confirm the cavern from space, then it should have been confirmed on the ground with ground penetrating radar.  Should you gain entrance then post the pictures and end the endless B>S>. 

Amusing thread.

 More than one person across the years tried to get into the range. Some did and by doing so disclosed there maps. I would love to see the records of these the government has. LOL

 As for the TaxLawyer amusing set up you got going. Do a search for treasure Caballo and see if you can find some more variations of the copy of the map you talk about.

 As for Noss, well when you get through the stuff added through the years it comes back to the cave in and him trying to tunel back in. He missed and tried again. That failed also then tried to go back in through original entrance.  Only seen one place that fits and it is now Wilderness study area.  Regrettably it was an area that produced gold. Would have loved to get back in the old mine that I could see the shoring in down that crack.

What happen to my last post in this thread from yesterday

was there too much information in it or something?

Freaky forum dudes, what do you do, save the best post to your private folders?

anyway, for readers who wish to read what i wrote here
ancientlosttreasures yuku .com
they at least left it up for ALL people to read

Rog

All
I am looking for an experienced person with extensive knowlege of the Organ Mts. North East of Las Cruces New Mexico. The location that I am looking for is of a particular mountain that lies East and West, not North and South as the majority of the mountain range runs. According to the map that I have which was drawn by an Apache indian and sent to me years ago by my uncle, it shows a natuarl limestone cavern system that runs more or less North and South for many miles. Whether such a system exists , who knows, but has anyone heard of this cavern system?
Supposedly the entrance is covered by a very large rock which could be rolled back and forth once the indians entered into the system. It was large enough to allow horses to be lead into the system and according to the Apache, this is how the entire tribe would dissapear while being chased by the cavalry. Any comments would be appreciated.
Thanks

I've heard similar stories about an Apache cavern hideout in the Tres Hermanas range near Columbus, NM.  Mr. Snow (treasure minder) may be able to help you with the Organs.

Has anyone else heard the theory that Noss hid some of the gold in the caballos?

Yes before he was killed

Willie Doughit-Doc Noss
Doughit found Nosses stash in the Caballos... I have found the stump of the tree that Wilie used to raise the gold bars up the side of the mountain and found his fire pit in the side of the mountain which could not be seen from any direction. I also found a hidden tunnel covered by a 2' dia. rock which appears currently to being worked by someone trying to find Willies original entrance. Very interesting in these mountains.

Unbelievable!!!  Long story short here folks.   I was having lunch with one of my reps I deal with and someone else at the table (a coworker) said "Hey Mike, tell him the story of the cache you found last month" (I found a small time capsul left by a teeneager on a mountain trail).  So after I get done telling him about it he asks me if I have any knowledge of the Victorio Peak lost gold..... I say "yes, I have heard the stories".  He proceeds to tell me about how his Grandfather, Doc Noss and and some other person (forgot the name) were the ones that found it....well, actually Doc Noss found it and he was friends with my friends grandfather and trusted him (plus he had a couple trucks).  I think he said the other guy had some mining experience so he was brought in.  Anyway, my friends grandfathers cut was to be 10% and they did get a little of it out but the story was that upon crawling down into the shaft (keep in mind he literally told this story to me an hour ago and gave me the short version but said he would tell me all about it later because after lunch he had to head home to Santa Barbara) there came a point in the shaft where there were two "stacks of rocks".  The opening was very small and you had to crawl on your belly for aprox 100ft to get to where it opened to a large cavern where the bars were stacked. 
Now, the miner friend suggested they blast that area to make the entrance larger, my friends grandfather said NO, and that they would be in danger of callapsing the entrance.  Doc, agreed to the blasting and they in fact collapsed the low lying entrance.  Once that happened they needed to dig it back out and needed help and thats where the secret got out.  Once they had to find help digging (supplies and equipment I assume) the secret got out and one morning they showed up to dig and the Military was there, armed and not letting anyone onto the site. 

I think my friend said his Grandfather died in a car accident after having a heart attack, and also said the miner guy was shot dead in a bar altercation and was ruled self defense and I don;t remember what he said about Doc but he basically said the government killed all three.  He was very serious about this and told me he would tell me more later so I will be able to give more details about his as I talk to him.

Hey TOK,

Be careful with the "New" version of the story. It has a couple of gaping holes in what you posted. Milton "Doc" Noss found the cache in 1937. At that time, there was no White Sands Missile Test Range. None of that land was procured by the Government until WWII.

Noss took on a partner named Charley Ryan to help fund the excavation. (Long story short)Ryan got word that Doc was going to dupe him, and confronted him. Doc was heading for his truck to get his gun, and Ryan shot him in self defense. No government secret there.

It has also been speculated that Doc found out that Ryan was going to double-cross him, and he rehid many of the gold bars they had already taken out. Ryan shot Doc, then bribed the judge to get off.

Who knows. Just be careful about what you hear and whom you hear it from. There are a lot of people who would like their names associated with a well known treasure story!

Best-Mike

Ahh !!!
Not! Quite So simple!
If you look at the photo of "Doc's" death
You'll see that he is slumped across the front bumper of his PU
Going toward the drive's side
&
Past the open passenger side window
"Doc" used to keep his revolver in that glovebox!
So!
If he were going to get his gun, why did he walk past the glove box ?   

Kind of makes you wonder about the self defense thing.
Thats for sure.
If it's true, there is the reason to bribe a judge right there.

Thom

I need to talk to my friend to get the long version and some facts that may help.

Ahh !!!
Not! Quite So simple!
If you look at the photo of "Doc's" death
You'll see that he is slumped across the front bumper of his PU
Going toward the drive's side
&
Past the open passenger side window
"Doc" used to keep his revolver in that glovebox!
So!
If he were going to get his gun, why did he walk past the glove box ?   

Slumped? I dont see anyone slumped, infact the curvature of his back is very like that of someone holding their posture.
The picture is easy to recreate for yourself, simply adopt the position that Noss is in at the edge of your bed.
Then once you have got the same postion as he has in the photo simply relax every muscle in your body as if you had been shot in the head.
Observe what happens to the curvature of your spine when you do this.

Thats better a missing lamp where he " slumped"  down the PU, a bit of blood from his shot in the head, and the posture looks so much better

Tag post please ignore

so what do ya reckon Oro? noss looks far more dead in my mock up dont you think?

I have to agree amigo, kind of gives you some idea of that day.

Oroblanco

I actually wrote the editor of Lost Treasure magazine about this awhile back. I read this story several years ago. Believed it then and now. Anyway the Lost Treasure magazine ran a story about the Benavides treasure. Supposedly there are several vaults in New Mexico. Benavides was a bishop If I remember right. The Spaniards used the Apaches as slaves for mining. Of coarse after converting them. I personally believe the Doc Ness location was 1 out of many of these vaults. But Lost Treasure didn't seem to think so.

Short and sweet
1.  Former North Range Commander WSMR
2.  Victorio Peak was in my area
3.  Gold and Jewels seen by Roscoe Parr--he helped Noss in the early days of find. (Nephew of Parr Personal friend)
4.  Military removed large section of Peak with earthmoving machines (1950's to 1960's ?) 
5.  All contents removed
6.  Military Personnel involved retired and disappeared
7.  Personal search of all caves both east and west of peak nothing found except old Wells Fargo Strong Box
8.  Very possible cache's by Noss remain in surrounding area--did not have modern equipment to detect.
9.  East central impact range very near and highly dangerous area--unexploded ordinance
10.GPR would be best to use in surrounding area if could gain access
11.Good luck to anyone who can get on the Range to look

While doing some research on gold currency use in the US, I came across an interesting website discussing the sale of gold bars to England in 1967 & 1968 orchestrated by President Lyndon Johnson.  Maybe the VP gold was used for the sale. Just a thought.

Copyright © 1999 by Freemarket Gold & Money Report. All Rights Reserved.

First published on December 13, 1999 in FGMR Letter #256
In the 1970's a very courageous gentleman named Edward Durrell claimed that substantially all of the US Gold Reserve being stored at Ft. Knox was gone. Only 1,000 tonnes or so of the 8,500 tonnes supposedly being stored there remained. The rest had been secretly taken from Ft. Knox and shipped to London in 1967 and early 1968 for sale by President Johnson in an ill-fated attempt to keep the price of Gold at $35 per ounce.

Mr. Durrell provided a lot of anecdotal evidence to support his claim. These included eyewitness accounts of hundreds of Army trucks leaving Ft. Knox in the middle of the night over a period of many weeks, supposedly loaded with the Gold bounty. Other interesting but circumstantial evidence was the sudden and unexpected dismissal of Gordon Tether, business editor for London's Financial Times, who published Mr. Durrell's claims. To my knowledge, no mainstream US newspaper dared to publish Mr. Durrell's allegations.

More circumstantial evidence emerged in the late 1970's when the US Treasury auctioned some Gold in an attempt to keep the Gold price from rising rapidly. The bullion banks bidding in the auction received 'coin-melt' bars, not good delivery bars. The coin-melt bars were fabricated in the 1930's after the Gold confiscation at that time. Coins are only 90% pure Gold, with 10% other metals added to provide durability to the Gold so that it can be used as coin without excessive wear or damage. In contrast, good delivery bars are 99% pure.

Mr. Durrell alleged that the coin-melt bars were not taken to London because their source could easily have been identified, the US being the only country that seized their citizens' Gold. Had the coin-melt bars been sold, the secret nature of the operation would have been compromised, so the coin-melt bars remained at Ft. Knox while the good delivery bars were sold in London in President Johnson's diabolical, unsuccessful scheme. Subsequent administrations, too afraid of the consequences from telling the truth, have continued the cover-up.

Clearly, the above examples are not sufficient to prove Mr. Durrell's claim, but one piece of evidence does raise serious questions. He claimed that a proper audit of the Gold reserve had not been made since the late 1950's during the Eisenhower administration. Moreover, despite his best efforts to get an audit completed, including as I recall offers to pay for the audit himself (which were not hollow promises because he was a very wealthy businessman), no audit was undertaken. The reason? The US Treasury said it was unnecessary 'because everyone knew that the Gold was still in Ft. Knox'.

The Treasury's curious response always seemed incredulous to me, so I have remained open-minded about whether the Gold was there or not. After all, we now know that President Johnson had lied to the nation about the Gulf of Tonkin incident that dragged the US into war in Viet Nam, so who is to say that he didn't also lie about the Gold in Ft. Knox?

Mr. Durrell passed away at age 90 in the early 1980's. With his passing, and the decline in inflation and the Gold price from the 1980 highs, over time this controversy was largely forgotten. I too put it largely out of mind until the early 1990's when I came to know a very wealthy industrialist with an interesting story.

I wrote about this gentlemen and his story in April 1994 (FGMR #143, Thinking the Unthinkable). He had requested anonymity, so I only refer to him as André, which is not his real name. André provided some additional interesting details, many of which filled in some unexplained gaps in Mr. Durrell's allegations.

Earlier in the year I reprinted this article because it was becoming clear to me that Mr. Durrell's and André's contention that the US Gold reserve was missing helped explain what was happening in the Gold market. As the huge weight of Gold being loaned and borrowed grew seemingly without end, it appeared to me that the Gold supposedly in Ft. Knox must be part of the equation. So I asked myself what could I do about it?

Satori

OK as I stated a couple in an above post (read above post) I was having lunch with a friend (hes in his 50's) and he dropped a bomb on me out of nowhere regarding the Victorio peak legend and how his grandfather was one of Doc's original partners.  Here is what he just send me.  By the way, his Grandfathers name was Harry Darr.

"Man that’s one long story Brotha…

 

The very short version goes like this:

Doc Noss discovers the treasure, but doesn’t know how to best get at it.

He enlists the help of my Grandfather (a friend and confidant + he had a small fleet of trucks)

Noss signs over 10% of what’s there to my Grandfather.

They together enlist the help of a mining engineer

In an effort to get at it easily, the engineer blasts the hole shut

They hire locals to help in the digging

Word gets out, and the Military gets wind of it, they move in, kick everyone out, and annex it as part of White Sands Testing Grounds

Shortly after, Doc Noss is shot to death in bar room fight (ruled justifiable homicide)

Mining engineer is killed in auto accident

My Grandfather dies of apparent heart attack  (I think all 3 were dead within 6 months)

 

Followed by 70 years (still on going) of legal battles with government  (involved F Lee Baily, Marvin Michelson and other high power lawyers)

In early 70’s John Dean admits to Congressional Hearing that Victoio Peak Treasure financed the Bay of Pigs, CIA covert activities in So Am and abroad +             others

In maybe early 90’s…  Act of Congress  finally allows the Noss family team to go in and inspect the area…  evidence of massive excavating

Now as aging military guys are nearing the end of their lives, lots have come forward and telling how they worked there and what they did.

 

It’s a long story with lots of twists and turns…but I think I have the general outline right.  There was a movie in the works, but somehow it went away, very quietly at least from my vantage point.

 

Pretty exciting stuff to have in your own family closet eh?  There’s been a ton written on it, but honestly, most of what I know was handed down from my Granny & Mother….  I’m sure there are still a lot of family documents, letters and clipping that they kept.  I think my oldest Brother has them now.  Huge box full."

 

[Dirty(s)]

As you have Read
&
As You can see ......

The Govt's Dirty(s)  Hand is in the misty background in this!       

AGAIN!    

Hey TOK,

Your story is close to what happened. The only big difference would be the death of "Doc" Noss.

Doc and his family supposedly removed about 300 of the gold bars and hid them in different cache sites. After Doc and Ova had gotten thoroughly screwed over by Uncle Sam, Doc enlisted the aid of a man who owned a Lead Mine to assist him in retrieving and selling one of the caches. At the last minute, Doc was afraid the man would screw him over, so he moved the cache the night before. He was correct that the man had planned to screw him over. They got into an argument, and Doc went out to his truck. The man shot and killed Doc "in self defense". There  is a picture floating around of Doc slumped over his front bumper.

There was a guy that used to post here named Roger Snow. His dad was a Treasure Hunter with an intense interest in Victorio Peak. He also died mysteriously, and Roger's 14 year old sister was shot in the head (all around the same time everybody else was dying). Looks like Uncle Sam was trying very heard keep Victorio Peak a secret.

Best-Mike

hey gang,
 Ok if everyone was shot and the govt is watching everyone left...... Then who is out there that knows where the gold is ?? and where is the gold ?? In other words if it's not in Vic pk and there is somewhere around 300 bars left..... where are they ?? To me it seems that is a HUGE load of metal to move, and does the guy with the Lead Mine have some of the answers ?? Just my crazy head needed to ask these questions....

PLL

Hey TOK,

Your story is close to what happened. The only big difference would be the death of "Doc" Noss.

Doc and his family supposedly removed about 300 of the gold bars and hid them in different cache sites. After Doc and Ova had gotten thoroughly screwed over by Uncle Sam, Doc enlisted the aid of a man who owned a Lead Mine to assist him in retrieving and selling one of the caches. At the last minute, Doc was afraid the man would screw him over, so he moved the cache the night before. He was correct that the man had planned to screw him over. They got into an argument, and Doc went out to his truck. The man shot and killed Doc "in self defense". There  is a picture floating around of Doc slumped over his front bumper.

There was a guy that used to post here named Roger Snow. His dad was a Treasure Hunter with an intense interest in Victorio Peak. He also died mysteriously, and Roger's 14 year old sister was shot in the head (all around the same time everybody else was dying). Looks like Uncle Sam was trying very heard keep Victorio Peak a secret.

Best-Mike

WEll Mike
some have a little knowledge of my Dad and myself
problem is

Whenever i attempt to set facts in this forum, the post go missing
That condition pisses my ass off, so i stopped posting in this rag site.


Yes, my Dads murder, my sisters murder
and myown torture by O.S.I. agents of the U.S. Government
is all factual.

Some of the crap people post here is directly qouted out of material such as the book " 100 tons of gold"

Capt. Bill states he wants to find the OFF BASE entrance to Vicky Peak,,, you know what he is talking about?

He is speaking of my dads red herring blorf he fed David Leon Chandler for his book : 100 tons

the entrance is NOT going to lead back into Vicky.

It does NOT take you into Hardscrabble

Hardscrabble is on the east side of the San Andreas, and the arroyo is on the west side, out in the Joranado, and does NOT reach to the east end.

The Arroyo that is a drainage from the San Andres is simply a subterrainean cavity that was created by sub surface erosion.
Dad fed Chandler CRAP!
My Dad was so harrassed by federal agents, he actually thought Chandler to be one undercover seeking info on treasure sites to be later pilfered by a Corrupt federal agency

WHICH IF YOU HAPPEN TO KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT GOVERNMENT AGENCYS,,, THEN YOU KNOW,,, ALL OF THEM ARE CORRUPT,,, THAT IS WHY THEY ARE INSTITUTED IN THE FIRST DAMNED PLACE!

My Dad's experience with treasure was first league

His Knowledge concise, his footwork extroardanair.

Now
some things to get straight on

1. the poster that asked for info on the cavern in the Organ Mountains that supposedly led Apaches for miles underground.

It goes approximately 1 mile underground, NOT FOR " MILES "
it is an L shaped cave,,,, and it can be found behind a huge boulder set up at the base of a bluff to the LEFT ( southside) of GLOBE spring near the entrance of Glendale Canyon.

THERE IS NOTHING AT ALL IN IT! and it comes out in Johnson canyon, and 30 feet from the exit is a HUGE KILLER BEE HIVE,,, so do not even bother attempting to play with it.

2. All maps of the Organ Mountains are BULL-SHIEETE PERIOD.

if they are hand drawn maps on parchment or paper of DUNG.

The true maps are CARVED in STONE within the range, and unless you are ME, you have very little chance of de-codeing them,,, PERIOD!

3 maps were on the stones
ONE, is a pictoglyph map ( hand painted on a La Rue map rock on the west side near the old mine house spring)
the other two maps on CARVED
One is in the mouth of RUCKER canyon
the other i keep secret, cause Fed agents can kiss my ASS, they have stolen enough out of there.

a 4th map does exist, it was carved on a NUGGET the size of my head
fed agents stole it from ME!

Now, on the truth of Vicky Peak

It was indeed cleaned out
early 1960's

I as a child personally went and spied on the operation, we watched them at NIGHT.
They used DUMP TRUCKS TO REMOVE THE BARS FROM THE BASIN.

a daisy chain of G.I.'s threw the bars into Front end loaders, the tractors dumped the bars into the dump trucks
this was the fastest way to get the bars loaded at the time, and get them out of the area.
The dump trucks and loaders were all civilian looking vehicles.

President JFK DID " NOT " get any of the GOLD!

Pres. Johnson was a MAGGOT amongst the human species, and was indeed involved in not only the cover up of the gold theft
but was privy to JFK's murder. PERIOD, IT IS THE TRUTH!

VICTORIO PEAK WAS A DEPOSITORY FIRST AND FOREMOST OF THE GOLD AND OTHER MINERALS MINED BY HEBREW AND PHOENICIAN MEN UNDER THE DIRECTION OF KINGS SOLOMON AND HIRAM.

Over the following centuries, others deposited loot in there, the Apaches being the predominate contributers, but NOT the only ones.

Victorio Peak, is NOT the seven cities of Cibola which is presented in the La Rue/ Rueshume letter
those are ALL in the Organ Mountains.
and the letter is a code, cibola was used to denote depositories, seven of them.
3 on the west side at the MOUTH of three seperate canyons
FILMORE CANYON BEING JUST ONE OF THEM. THAT CACHE IS LONG GONE TOO.

3 on the east side, two  just inside two canyons, one barely outside another canyon


ALL EL CHATO LOOT FOR THE MOST PART IS IN SOLEDAD CANYON
BOTH ENDS OF THE CANYON. VERY NEAR AFTER YOU ENTER THE CANYON FROM EITHER DIRECTION, SOME HAS ALREADY BEEN LOOTED BY THE ARMY, GARUANTEED, I WENT AND INSPECTED THE SITES MYSELF OVER A 4 YEAR PERIOD FROM 2002 TO 2006.

PRIOR TO THAT, I HAD INSPECTED THE SAME SITES FROM 1982 UNTIL 1991, I KNOW WHAT WAS THERE, WHAT THE SITES LOOKED LIKE BEFORE THE DIGGING BY THE ARMY, AND WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE NOW, I ALSO KNOW WHY STAILITE PHOTOS ARE AIRBRUSHED TO COVER THE RECENT DIGS OF THESE SITES, SO GET YOUR UNDIES TOGETHER FOLKS, THE BIG " G ' IS A THIEF, THANK YOUR BUDDIES AT THE PENTAGON AND AT THE NEW AGENCY KNOWN AS : THE DIRECTORATE OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY,,, FORMERLY KNOWN AS: THE OFFICE OF SCIENTIFIC INTELLIGENCE,,, OR BY THE ACRONYM OF: O.S.I.,,, THESE ARE THE REAL PEOPLE BEHIND THE KIDNAPP TORURE OF MYSELF AND THE MURDER OF INNOCENT CITIZENS WHO KNEW TOO MUCH.

MY DAD HAD LOCATED SEVERAL OF THEM, BUT, COULD NOT RETRIEVE THEM BECAUSE OF THE DEPTH AND THE AREA IN WHICH THEY ARE BURIED.

IT TAKES A BACKHOE AT THE LEAST TO DIG THEM OUT.

anyone with the knowledge i have of the Organ Mountains, can take the various copies of the supposed El Chato letters, read them, and KNOW for certain that whoever wrote them, knew nothing of the Organ Mountains,,, they are for the most part all fabrications.

ENOUGH info for you people?
good
Now go write your books with it and make yourself some fame and fortune

and this one is for Darrel Friesen
You Canadian freak of nature
next time you pledgerize my material and claim YOU figured stuff out

I will post all across the internet my documents and post you are claiming to be of your manufacture.

Most have already  figured you out to be a fraud.
You could'nt de-code a symbol if it came on a cerial box with a child's de-coder ring included.
YOU DUNCE!
signed : ROGER A. SNOW ,




 





 

Are you really surprised that your posts get deleted 

... ... Are you really surprised that your posts get deleted 

That's why you might copy them if you decide you might want to think about them later.

Hey Roger,

I think I have said this to you before, but the things that get your posts zapped are:

1. Inflammatory statements (namecalling and the like)

2. LENGTH! I know you have a lot to say, but 2000 and 3000 word posts will kill a thread. I recommend just posting brief allusions, and let people ask specific questions about different parts.

Best-Mike

Hey TOK,

Your story is close to what happened. The only big difference would be the death of "Doc" Noss.

Doc and his family supposedly removed about 300 of the gold bars and hid them in different cache sites. After Doc and Ova had gotten thoroughly screwed over by Uncle Sam, Doc enlisted the aid of a man who owned a Lead Mine to assist him in retrieving and selling one of the caches. At the last minute, Doc was afraid the man would screw him over, so he moved the cache the night before. He was correct that the man had planned to screw him over. They got into an argument, and Doc went out to his truck. The man shot and killed Doc "in self defense". There  is a picture floating around of Doc slumped over his front bumper.

There was a guy that used to post here named Roger Snow. His dad was a Treasure Hunter with an intense interest in Victorio Peak. He also died mysteriously, and Roger's 14 year old sister was shot in the head (all around the same time everybody else was dying). Looks like Uncle Sam was trying very heard keep Victorio Peak a secret.

Best-Mike

WEll Mike
some have a little knowledge of my Dad and myself
problem is

Whenever i attempt to set facts in this forum, the post go missing
That condition pisses my ass off, so i stopped posting in this rag site.


Yes, my Dads murder, my sisters murder
and myown torture by O.S.I. agents of the U.S. Government
is all factual.

Some of the crap people post here is directly qouted out of material such as the book " 100 tons of gold"

Capt. Bill states he wants to find the OFF BASE entrance to Vicky Peak,,, you know what he is talking about?

He is speaking of my dads red herring blorf he fed David Leon Chandler for his book : 100 tons

the entrance is NOT going to lead back into Vicky.

It does NOT take you into Hardscrabble

Hardscrabble is on the east side of the San Andreas, and the arroyo is on the west side, out in the Joranado, and does NOT reach to the east end.

The Arroyo that is a drainage from the San Andres is simply a subterrainean cavity that was created by sub surface erosion.
Dad fed Chandler CRAP!
My Dad was so harrassed by federal agents, he actually thought Chandler to be one undercover seeking info on treasure sites to be later pilfered by a Corrupt federal agency

WHICH IF YOU HAPPEN TO KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT GOVERNMENT AGENCYS,,, THEN YOU KNOW,,, ALL OF THEM ARE CORRUPT,,, THAT IS WHY THEY ARE INSTITUTED IN THE FIRST DAMNED PLACE!

My Dad's experience with treasure was first league

His Knowledge concise, his footwork extroardanair.

Now
some things to get straight on

1. the poster that asked for info on the cavern in the Organ Mountains that supposedly led Apaches for miles underground.

It goes approximately 1 mile underground, NOT FOR " MILES "
it is an L shaped cave,,,, and it can be found behind a huge boulder set up at the base of a bluff to the LEFT ( southside) of GLOBE spring near the entrance of Glendale Canyon.

THERE IS NOTHING AT ALL IN IT! and it comes out in Johnson canyon, and 30 feet from the exit is a HUGE KILLER BEE HIVE,,, so do not even bother attempting to play with it.

2. All maps of the Organ Mountains are BULL-SHIEETE PERIOD.

if they are hand drawn maps on parchment or paper of DUNG.

The true maps are CARVED in STONE within the range, and unless you are ME, you have very little chance of de-codeing them,,, PERIOD!

3 maps were on the stones
ONE, is a pictoglyph map ( hand painted on a La Rue map rock on the west side near the old mine house spring)
the other two maps on CARVED
One is in the mouth of RUCKER canyon
the other i keep secret, cause Fed agents can kiss my ASS, they have stolen enough out of there.

a 4th map does exist, it was carved on a NUGGET the size of my head
fed agents stole it from ME!

Now, on the truth of Vicky Peak

It was indeed cleaned out
early 1960's

I as a child personally went and spied on the operation, we watched them at NIGHT.
They used DUMP TRUCKS TO REMOVE THE BARS FROM THE BASIN.

a daisy chain of G.I.'s threw the bars into Front end loaders, the tractors dumped the bars into the dump trucks
this was the fastest way to get the bars loaded at the time, and get them out of the area.
The dump trucks and loaders were all civilian looking vehicles.

President JFK DID " NOT " get any of the GOLD!

Pres. Johnson was a MAGGOT amongst the human species, and was indeed involved in not only the cover up of the gold theft
but was privy to JFK's murder. PERIOD, IT IS THE TRUTH!

VICTORIO PEAK WAS A DEPOSITORY FIRST AND FOREMOST OF THE GOLD AND OTHER MINERALS MINED BY HEBREW AND PHOENICIAN MEN UNDER THE DIRECTION OF KINGS SOLOMON AND HIRAM.

Over the following centuries, others deposited loot in there, the Apaches being the predominate contributers, but NOT the only ones.

Victorio Peak, is NOT the seven cities of Cibola which is presented in the La Rue/ Rueshume letter
those are ALL in the Organ Mountains.
and the letter is a code, cibola was used to denote depositories, seven of them.
3 on the west side at the MOUTH of three seperate canyons
FILMORE CANYON BEING JUST ONE OF THEM. THAT CACHE IS LONG GONE TOO.

3 on the east side, two  just inside two canyons, one barely outside another canyon


ALL EL CHATO LOOT FOR THE MOST PART IS IN SOLEDAD CANYON
BOTH ENDS OF THE CANYON. VERY NEAR AFTER YOU ENTER THE CANYON FROM EITHER DIRECTION, SOME HAS ALREADY BEEN LOOTED BY THE ARMY, GARUANTEED, I WENT AND INSPECTED THE SITES MYSELF OVER A 4 YEAR PERIOD FROM 2002 TO 2006.

PRIOR TO THAT, I HAD INSPECTED THE SAME SITES FROM 1982 UNTIL 1991, I KNOW WHAT WAS THERE, WHAT THE SITES LOOKED LIKE BEFORE THE DIGGING BY THE ARMY, AND WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE NOW, I ALSO KNOW WHY STAILITE PHOTOS ARE AIRBRUSHED TO COVER THE RECENT DIGS OF THESE SITES, SO GET YOUR UNDIES TOGETHER FOLKS, THE BIG " G ' IS A THIEF, THANK YOUR BUDDIES AT THE PENTAGON AND AT THE NEW AGENCY KNOWN AS : THE DIRECTORATE OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY,,, FORMERLY KNOWN AS: THE OFFICE OF SCIENTIFIC INTELLIGENCE,,, OR BY THE ACRONYM OF: O.S.I.,,, THESE ARE THE REAL PEOPLE BEHIND THE KIDNAPP TORURE OF MYSELF AND THE MURDER OF INNOCENT CITIZENS WHO KNEW TOO MUCH.

MY DAD HAD LOCATED SEVERAL OF THEM, BUT, COULD NOT RETRIEVE THEM BECAUSE OF THE DEPTH AND THE AREA IN WHICH THEY ARE BURIED.

IT TAKES A BACKHOE AT THE LEAST TO DIG THEM OUT.

anyone with the knowledge i have of the Organ Mountains, can take the various copies of the supposed El Chato letters, read them, and KNOW for certain that whoever wrote them, knew nothing of the Organ Mountains,,, they are for the most part all fabrications.

ENOUGH info for you people?
good
Now go write your books with it and make yourself some fame and fortune

and this one is for Darrel Friesen
You Canadian freak of nature
next time you pledgerize my material and claim YOU figured stuff out

I will post all across the internet my documents and post you are claiming to be of your manufacture.

Most have already  figured you out to be a fraud.
You could'nt de-code a symbol if it came on a cerial box with a child's de-coder ring included.
YOU DUNCE!
signed : ROGER A. SNOW ,




 





 

Are you really surprised that your posts get deleted 

Yeah my post are indeed long
whats the format of a forum
it's purpose exactly?

is it not the exchange of ideas and information
even an argument as defined by Socrates?

To answer your posit, NO! iam not surprize by much any longer.

You may notice i NEVER EVER ask a question
I simply post facts to answer other peoples questions
If answers are not a welcome into the venue
then why ask what the freaking current theories are?

Show a smal modicum of delligence when attempting to question people

First by focalizing on the motive and direct interest of and for the desired answer you may wish to know.

There is a whole world outside your trailor park buddy.

and if my post are long
then quoting them in full,,, just doubles the content of the page

Is it not a wonderful thing to use a mind for more then just collecting info-tainment and gossip
Not to mention
If i used the lower mentality that you level yourself upon, and attempted to conflict in your manner
You would'nt stand a garbage-pail kids chance in south hell against my wit and humor.

As i have stated before, why should i bother to throw pearls before swine?

Swine have not a clue to valuation of pearls
They seek what they can eat, watch, and pro-create with, and to GRUNT loudly when it is ponted out that they are indeed nothing more then swine.

The disturbing attribute of swine, is that they as well can breed. Lucky for humanity, that these off-spring are usually the ones who are used in the decimation process refered to as WAR, they make perfect cannon fodder for such wars.

FACTS, in answer to honest query, should be the predominate desired aquisition

However, when some ask a question in order to berate the answer, then it is a standard of lower intelligence.

Certainly i cannot be expected to accept the blame for --deleted-- people breeding, nor shall i be imposed upon to raise the I.Q of such offspring.

If content and space is a problem for this forum, then shut the forum down and run it as a commercial prospect only.

I myself do not require a metal detector or other products advertized within the pages of this venue.

delete post as your mind feels required to do so.

For myself, i have better conflicts to adjust.
Rog'



 

Whom do I call educated? First, those who manage well the circumstances they encounter day by day. Next, those who are decent and honorable in their intercourse with all men, bearing easily and good naturedly what is offensive in others and being as agreeable and reasonable to their associates as is humanly possible to be... those who hold their pleasures always under control and are not ultimately overcome by their misfortunes... those who are not spoiled by their successes, who do not desert their true selves but hold their ground steadfastly as wise and sober -- minded men.

Socrates

hey gang,
 Well, for me it's the people who can't seem to find the spell check... and I'm guilty of that as well. But I do try to proofread what I write.. I just that some NEED it more than others.LOL

PLL

Treasure minder, the things I was refering to were these quotes:


"Whenever i attempt to set facts in this forum, the post go missing
That condition pisses my ass off, so i stopped posting in this rag site."

"and this one is for Darrel Friesen
You Canadian freak of nature
next time you pledgerize my material and claim YOU figured stuff out"

"Most have already  figured you out to be a fraud.
You could'nt de-code a symbol if it came on a cerial box with a child's de-coder ring included.
YOU DUNCE!"


The swearing, racism and name calling are not needed.

Good Morning Peerless:  I tend to agree, when one is too defensive  it just might be because they are on too shaky a ground, or lack simple self confidence for one reason or another.  Personally, I welcome  criticism on
my posts and projects.    Many times they have pointed out thingies that I brushed over or was mistaken in.

SHADDUP !!!  Peeless.

However I might add, that doing as I do on posting another's question is far more effective , simply copy and paste the point in question, instead of using /posting a huge amount of space in blue, leaving the reader to have to find out by themselves by reading and sifting through the entire post to see just what and where you / they  are responding to.

As for Daryl, I have no idea if he obtained his data from you or from  one of the mountains of previous stories that were published on the subject before you were born.  However I would refrain from such statements in the future, especially on a public forum.   It could lead to a defamation / liable suit  because it  could lead to loss of reputation and business.

The place for that in EM or PM.

I enjoy Reading your posts , but it does get a bit tiresome when they are very long and skip around.   SOO relax and be a bit more concise  my friend.  Remember the old story of flies, sugar, and vinegar..

Don Jose de La Mancha

Rog. my ol hippy friend. How you been doing?
It's been a while. Thought maybe one of those goverment agents may have took you out.

                          Roadquest

[I welcome criticism on my posts and projects]

Real de Tayopa wrote:

Personally, I welcome  criticism on
my posts and projects.

Well okay amigo, but remember you asked for this...

Real de Tayopa also wrote

SHADDUP !!! 

I can't seem to find this word "shaddup" in my dictionary amigo, can you enlighten me as to what it means?  Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco

hey oro,
 I think it's a compliment directed to the ladies ( wifes etc... )... at least that what the single guys say.

PLL

[WOW then I must get "compliments" ALL THE TIME!]

Really?  WOW then I must get "compliments" ALL THE TIME! 

aaaaa ( hey oro ) psssttt.....( in a whisper voice ) You might not want other people to know that... ok ?? Just trying to help mi amigo 

PLL

[AHA!]

AHA! I got what you are saying amigo - we don't want to make folks feel JEALOUS of how many "compliments" I get!    Thanks for the tip amigo, I would hate to ruin someone's day by making them feel jealous of my "compliments"! 

  whot n l is a lil "r" among friends? 

Pegger, As for ORO , did you ever drink his coffee ?? I understand that it burns out the urinary system lining, and the buggie shells act as an aphrodisiac  a la Spanish fly. hence the  descrptive  word ---peeeless..

I am sure that PEERLESS agrees with me.

Don Jose de La Mancah   (waitng for more data on La vicroria goodies Treasure Minder)

p.s. I wonder how ORO knows about Spanish fly? Is that part of a line shacks basics?

Don Jose', gambusino explorador extraordinaire whispered...

p.s. I wonder how ORO knows about Spanish fly? Is that part of a line shacks basics?

Spanish fly?  What is Spanish fly?      (Hey the sheep are not so dumb you know, they don't often get tangled in a fence!   )  Do they work the same way as blister beetles? 

How did you know about the line shacks?   

this is for the " lovers " in this post.....and you KNOW who you are 

PLL

[any]

Pegleg - you sure know the way to a SHEEPherder's hart! 

Side note - I have been trying to talk the boss into "less  cattle, more  sheep" and he may be seeing the light - the cattle have only broken even or ran a loss for the last seven years, while the sheep have shown a profit <admittedly small, but the number of sheep is small> even through the drought.  You can run four to six sheep for every cow on the range, so it would mean increasing the sheep flock quite a bit and would have to pay much more attention to keeping the predators away, but heck I would sooner work with the sheep any day than the cattle!  Besides, grilled lamb chops over a mesquite fire...MMMMM! Too bad we don't have any mesquite around here. Sorry for getting side-tracked there amigos.)
Oroblanco

hey Oro,
 My ex was from Australia, and we ate a LOT of lamb or mutton. Boy could she cook a mean chop. My mouth is watering just thinking about. She also made a GREAT shepherds pie....

PLL

[Shepherd's Pie!]

Man, Pegleg - Shepherd's Pie! I haven't had that in at least a year.  Dang it I am getting hungry now too!  I just wish that lamb was not so durned expensive nowadays. 

Okay now I am going to drift here, having already drifted quite a bit. 

What do you guys think about the possibility that there could be OTHER caches of treasures located in the same general region as VP, but not in Victorio peak?  When we were visiting relatives in Alamogordo on the way here, I heard there are stories of other  treasures being in some other caves, in the hills on the west of White Sands.  Just stories, or could there be something to it?  Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco

   Peerless has shaddup

[/quote]

Yes, my Dads murder, my sisters murder
and myown torture by O.S.I. agents of the U.S. Government
is all factual.

[/quote]

 Since the gold's gone, why don't you just discuss this? It's interesting in a "Bad Saturday Matinee" way. I've read your wanderings on a couple of different forums covering everything from being tortured to being shot at to King Solomon to the KGC.

 I'd like to hear what you've been through.

Yes, my Dads murder, my sisters murder
and myown torture by O.S.I. agents of the U.S. Government
is all factual.

[/quote]

 Since the gold's gone, why don't you just discuss this? It's interesting in a "Bad Saturday Matinee" way. I've read your wanderings on a couple of different forums covering everything from being tortured to being shot at to King Solomon to the KGC.

 I'd like to hear what you've been through.
[/quote]


Well JT, i prefer that you stick to watching your TV
Rog'

Very interesting comments!   I am surprised at how many comments were so close to the truth, and that the 'pros' outweighed the 'cons'------you 'pros' were mostly right...........and Tom Whittle knows what he's talking about !!   He was paid by Jack Anderson to investigate the entire story, and uncovered a lot of documentation.......He writes with authority !   But, whoever that was who said he had handled the crown is a liar !   NOBODY alive has handled that crown !

Wrong information!     Doc Noss did NOT need Ryan to fund any excavating---------Ryan claimed to have a source in Mexico where the gold could be sold---so Doc gathered up most, if not all, of the bars he had stashed in various  places to make up a sizeable lot for sale-----and the day before the 110 bars were to have been flown to Mexico, Doc apparently overheard a conversation that convinced him that Ryan planned to double cross him, and would not be coming back with any money !   So, enlisting the aid of an acquaintance, Tony Jolley, he spent the entire night hiding the 110 bars in various places----in some cases, the very same spots where they had been previously hidden...I know that he returned the final 30 bars to their original hiding  places---it is the only way he could have found his landmarks at 4 AM-------they were in a grassy field---each hole exactly 25 paces from the barbed wire fence, running along the road----and the 3 holes were exactly 1100 paces apart----Also, each hole measured 2 ft by 3 ft with the long axis pointed toward the fence---the bars were laid down in 2 rows of 5 bars, and only 6 inches deep !   It was a MILLION dollars in each hole !     some friends of Jolley were successful in finding them, using his clues----------Evidently, the copper impurities in the dory bars leached out into the soil, preventing the growth of grass, because there was a healthy growth of grass everywhere else!          There is another place where Doc buried the same number of bars, alongside a barbed wire fence, in a certain canyon, far enough away from the rest that they MIGHT still be there--------but unfortunately, they are also inside the missile range boundary------in a very pretty spot, and a very secluded area----Old Doc certainly knew his way around in those mountains !

[Well JT, i prefer that you stick to watching your TVRog']

Well JT, i prefer that you stick to watching your TV
Rog'

 About what I figured...all that nonsense about being followed around by "Government Agents" your whole life...being kidnapped and "tortured" multiple times...multiple "attempts" on your life by "Government Agents"...and it seems like I recall from either here or another forum you claiming that these "agents" inserted a tracking chip in you, too... ...I'm not even sure you can keep your stories straight anymore...

Seems to me that treasure-minder aka Roger Snow(?) has an aweful LOT to be aggrevated about. When the forum moderators delete his posts is like adding insult to injury, from my perspective. His being a descendant of Doc Noss(this is what I am assuming as factual), it also seems to me he should be shown an extra modicum of respect by all members here. Everyone OUTSIDE of this forum has been pissing on this man's leg and telling him it is raining, most of his life. His life has been a nightmare, I am sure. The moderators should be ashamed for doing what they did. They should have gone the extra mile with this man, at the very least asking him to accept their apologies for the wrongs they have done to him here. I don't see him flaming anyone. But, my experience has been that some people try to provoke others that are very tightly wrapped, as Roger is, JUST FOR SICK REASONS.And, they do it in such as a way as not to get noticed by the moderators.I'm NOT stating that is what has happenned here, but I have seen it on many other forums.They just kinds gently touch maybe two or three "buttons", then sit back and wait.Kinda like gentle-baiting. But, I personally am very supportive and sympathetic of his plight. People should take his long hard battles into consideration, and try to understand.

[assume]

His being a descendant of Doc Noss(this is what I am assuming as factual), it also seems to me he should be shown an extra modicum of respect by all members here. His life has been a nightmare, I am sure.  But, I personally am very supportive and sympathetic of his plight. People should take his long hard battles into consideration, and try to understand.

I see what you're saying..however, he's been on multiple forums for several years, telling increasingly bizarre stories...then when people question him, he disappears, and pops up on some other forum under another name. He disappeared from here in January, never to return...and I'm sure I'll stumble onto him sooner or later on some other site, telling his tall tales under another moniker.

You even admit that you have to assume what he's saying is true. If you're going to spin outrageous yarns, ranging from having "tracking chips" implanted in his body, being "followed" for his entire life by a cadre of "government agents", then being periodically kidnapped, tortured, and set free...only to have the entire cycle repeat itself, have all of this tie into the Kennedy assassination, plus having multiple family members supposedly murdered by the same agents that have been torturing and releasing him for the better part of 40 or 50 years......then eventually someone's going to question it.

It's human nature to want to believe those tall tales. I could register here under a different name, and tell a completely fabricated story intertwining government conspiracies, Area 51, "men in black", lost treasure, the KGC, the CIA, and military coverups, and find an audience that not only laps it up and agrees..but eventually someone will even spice the story up by adding on corroborating experiences of their own. It's happened everywhere else he's posted.

Morbius,

Roger never claimed (that I know of) to be descended from Doc Noss. His dad came along after the fact and Roger states that he knows not only about the tunnels under Victorio, but tunnels under another mountain nearby, which was why he was (supposedly) murdered by Uncle Sam.

Martian,

You are correct about Tom Whittle. He wrote the most referenced and well researched article about the story that I have yet to find. I have links to it (and the official WSMR Article) on my website (1oro1.com). Tom also spent many months living with the Noss Family while writing the story. He has many pictures (including one where a Noss Family Friend is wearing some of the Spanish Armor from the cave). Tom is also in the process of writing a book on this subject, and doesn't give out much in the way of information.

Best-Mike

[tunnels under another mountain]

Mike, thanks for posting your website address again, haven't visited it lately and had lost the link. I could not remember it but won't lose it again. My compliments on your website BTW, excellent! 

Oops - almost forgot to add this.

Gollum wrote

Roger states that he knows not only about the tunnels under Victorio, but tunnels under another mountain nearby,

That is interesting, for while we were visiting relatives in Alamagordo, <2 years ago> there was local "talk" about the existence of other tunnels in a different mountain which lies outside the restricted missile range.  I wonder now where this rumor is founded, fact or fiction?
Roy ~ Oroblanco

Mike/gollum:  I had a bit of a problem locating the story about Dic Noss at your website www.1oro1.com  .   HERE is the direct link at your website:  http://www.1oro1.com/Hidden%20Caches/victoriopeak.html   Direct link to article: http://www.freedommag.org/english/vol18I10/index.htm    You are correct.That is the BEST article about this topic I ever read, too!! Many thanks!!

Sorry, I probably should have posted the exact link.

I haven't talked to Tom in a few months, but I can't wait to get more info on his new book. I'll post more when I find out.

Best-Mike

This whole story has amazed me for years. In the article gollum referenced, there was a Captain that discovered a different cave than Doc Noss. He mentioned counting one pile of gold bars in that cave being 600 @ 60 pounds each. He said that there were several piles in that cave. I conservatively put the value of that small treasure(compared to what Doc Noss found) at $4.5Billion!!

[is]

Roger is in no way related to the Noss family.  He is the son of the late Harvey Snow.  The alleged 'other cavern' was identified as being located under Hardscrabble Peak, but this was disinformation given by Harvey to the guy who wrote 100 Tons of Gold.  There allegedly is another cavern in the San Andreas Range - whereabouts unknown.

the government does what it wants when it wants

I was told lone ago from my friend,who is now dead.  that  Victorio Peak and others in the southwest,and up into utah was where the really the true  King Solomon's Mines .long lost and not found.  there is some info. to prove they was over here. think about it,it the best hidden place of all,in a place no one knew about.untill the 1400
and if these are real ancient bars.
and i think thay are,it could very well be one of  King Solomon's Mines
and most likely the indain found it long ago and started putting other loot on top of if.
i am not a real smart man,not like some of the guys here,but i do read a whole lot.
what do u guys think?

I agree with everything you've said here, littlejohn.  I also believe that these locations are not, and never have been, 'lost', but are still under control of their owners.   

According to some the of the stories related to this tale, Doc Noss leased the land from the State Gov. and filed a Treasure Trove claim.

http://www.legendsofamerica.com/HC-Treasures6.html

In the spring of 1938, Doc Noss and Babe went to  Santa Fe to establish legal ownership of the find, filing a lease with the State of  New Mexico for the entire section of land surrounding Victorio Peak. Subsequently, he also filed several mining claims on and around Victorio Peak, as well as a treasure trove claim. With legal ownership established, Noss began to openly work the claim, but he also became increasingly paranoid, hiding the gold bars all over the desert.

I have just finished reading the autobiography of Col. Charles Askins. According to him the land Victorio Peak is located on was privately owned at the time of Doc Noss's alleged find. It was a 50,000 acre cattle ranch owned by the Cox family. Col. Askins was good friends with the Cox clan, whose father was the same W. W. Cox involved in the killing of Pat Garrett, and he hunted all over that ranch at the time of the discovery. Now that begs the question, how can someone lease privately owned land from the State Government?

I should also point out that Col. Askins makes no mention of Victorio Peak or any gold discovery but that he was an avid hunter and lamented over the lost hunting ground do to the establishment of the White Sands Missile Range. He stated it was some of the finest quail hunting land he had ever known. I also feel that the amount of activity described in the Doc Noss tale wouldn't have gone unnoticed by the Cox family, considering that it was a working cattle ranch and the frequent hunts by the family and friends.

A little background on Askins:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_143_23/ai_56221628/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Askins

Now based off his book, the above article, and the history of the Cox Clan something tells me that they wouldn't have abided some guy and his wife poking around on the ranch and living in a tent without at least confronting them. If not outright running them off.

According to some the of the stories related to this tale, Doc Noss leased the land from the State Gov. and filed a Treasure Trove claim.

http://www.legendsofamerica.com/HC-Treasures6.html

In the spring of 1938, Doc Noss and Babe went to  Santa Fe to establish legal ownership of the find, filing a lease with the State of  New Mexico for the entire section of land surrounding Victorio Peak. Subsequently, he also filed several mining claims on and around Victorio Peak, as well as a treasure trove claim. With legal ownership established, Noss began to openly work the claim, but he also became increasingly paranoid, hiding the gold bars all over the desert.

I have just finished reading the autobiography of Col. Charles Askins. According to him the land Victorio Peak is located on was privately owned at the time of Doc Noss's alleged find. It was a 50,000 acre cattle ranch owned by the Cox family. Col. Askins was good friends with the Cox clan, whose father was the same W. W. Cox involved in the killing of Pat Garrett, and he hunted all over that ranch at the time of the discovery. Now that begs the question, how can someone lease privately owned land from the State Government?

I should also point out that Col. Askins makes no mention of Victorio Peak or any gold discovery but that he was an avid hunter and lamented over the lost hunting ground do to the establishment of the White Sands Missile Range. He stated it was some of the finest quail hunting land he had ever known. I also feel that the amount of activity described in the Doc Noss tale wouldn't have gone unnoticed by the Cox family, considering that it was a working cattle ranch and the frequent hunts by the family and friends.

A little background on Askins:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_143_23/ai_56221628/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Askins

Now based off his book, the above article, and the history of the Cox Clan something tells me that they wouldn't have abided some guy and his wife poking around on the ranch and living in a tent without at least confronting them. If not outright running them off.

Col Bigmouth is a pretty leaky vessel to be shipping much hope on .

Col Bigmouth is a pretty leaky vessel to be shipping much hope on .

Care to elaborate on that? His "fame" was before my time so all I really know about the man is what he wrote in his book.

[WELCOME TO TREASURENET AOinNH!]

WELCOME TO TREASURENET AOinNH! 

The Truth of the Victorio Peak Gold is plain and simple about what happened.

LBJ was a greedy crook and a murderer, if anybody had gold fever it was LBJ.
Only after many decades will the REAL truth be told. 

nothings changed to date, Government still does the same thing to many Americans as they did to Ova and Doc Noss.
 
The Victorio Peak story is the biggest "government secret cover up" ever to be told!

The American people have the right to know how corrupt our government is, and how far they would go to steal, lie and cover up
the biggest story ever to rock this nation!

LBJ's Greed! deceit, lies,theft,....... will finally be told!

I look forward to this date, American People deserve the truth!

Click:     http://www.victoriopeak.com/    to get the biggest story to ever rock this nation!


Brian.

Vintage-IC

 

I read through these forums a lot, but have never registered or posted until now. I am currently working with a tribe from the AZ/NM area on something in Eastern Ca. In our discussions, the story of the VP Gold came up. This tribe fought against the Chiricahua Apache all through the late 1700's until the mid 1800's, until the whites became the common enemy. They believe that the gold was amassed from years of raiding Mexicans and Whites. My friends said that their tribe at first left any gold right where it fell as they had no use for it at the time. Later they took to hiding it so the whites and Mexicans wouldn't come looking for it. Some think it is all in one spot and others think it is all spread around so nobody could accidently find it all at once.

This could not be Padre LaRue's gold for the simple reason that the directions given to the Padre by the old man were; "One days travel North of El Paso del Norte until you see three peaks. Upon first site of these peaks turn Eastward and cross the desert towards the mountains. In the mountains you will find a basin, where there is a spring at the foot of a solitary peak. On this peak you will find gold." Padre LaRue moved his flock to that basin. Nowhere near Victorio Peak which is near the Western Edge of White Sands Missile Test Range.

Not likely to be Maximillian's Gold either as most current wisdom places that square in Texas.

Montezuma's Treasure seems out because there would be nothing newer than the 1500's, and none likely to be in ingot form.

It's amazing the things that some people post without doing even a little research.

A lot of activity going on in Caballo right now.

Clue us in buddy!

I'm always up for good gossip!

Best-Mike

Many great comments.

What do you think?  Was the gold really in a cave at Victorio Peak, as Doc Noss stated?  Did the government get the gold in the 1960'2 or 1970's?

       YES TO ALL THREE QUESTIONS !!     In 1961-2, and again in 1973 (during Thanksgiving )     Read the new book !

Who did the Army give the treasures to?

Who did the Army give the treasures to?

LBJ used it to finance the "Great Society"...!   Fannie & Freddie...!

please explain....im a little simple minded

Who did the Army give the treasures to?

LBJ used it to finance the "Great Society"...!   Fannie & Freddie...!

please explain....im a little simple minded

So ya don't think that's funny huh...?!   I thought that was pretty funny...!

so he funneled the money through home and student loan companies? i still dont get it. couldnt he have just said "screw it" and kept it for himself and payed for quietness?

Puff, i tried to google Andy Mays and the typical Victorio Peak key words and i came up with nothing except this website. ive read 100 Tons of Gold, What Men Call Treasure, The Legend of Victoria Peak, and another book thats in my locker at work(cant remember the name). but basically ive read the big 4 books about the peak and never heard anything about Andy Mays.....care to elaborate?

David,

Never heard anything about Andy Mays either, and I am very well versed on the whole Noss-Douthit controversy.

The "Indian" that claimed to have been present when Doc found the entrance was Seraphim Sedillo.

Mike

David,

Never heard anything about Andy Mays either, and I am very well versed on the whole Noss-Douthit controversy.

The "Indian" that claimed to have been present when Doc found the entrance was Seraphim Sedillo.

Mike

Doc didn't "found" anything--He was shown by Andy Mays...!

So how did Andy Mays know it was there? Did he "find" it first? Was it there since before his time? Is it really Victorio's war spoils?

Well,

In this crazy world of Treasure Hunting, I won't say its not true, but I have yet to see or hear anything regarding the name Andy Mays.

I email the author of the books and he hadn't heard the name either.

Like I said previously, the only indian with Doc when he found the cave was Seraphim Sedillo. Now, it is possible that someone else showed Doc the cave and he later claimed to find it in the company of Sedillo.

David, since you obviously have spent a great deal of time with the knowledge of Andy Mays, have you ever been able to get census records or any documentation of the existence of Andy mays?

Mike

There must be some record in Lincoln County,where Andy was murdered('72 or'73.   Some scoundrels from Texas,caught him crossing a fence-line(for the second time)with two gold bars,which he had intended for his adoptive Mexican daughter,and her abusive husband.

Andy was a tall,lankey person,with a good temperament. He spent most of his time monitoring the sacred sites of the Apaches. I have many tapes,detailing all of the particulars.

Andy might have killed Doc for his theft,and betrayal--but,I guess it was not in his nature to do so. Which makes him a far better man than yours truely.

Andy drove several different vehicles,in an attempt to avoid the Texas group--who had relieved him of two gold bars--and,had beaten him so severely,that he was presumed dead,by his torturers. The second encounter,was the last. A rancher riding his fence-line,found him bound with barb-wire,and his feet nearly burned off.

David

sounds like a bad way to go!!!!! can you expand on the other sites? also in new mexico? have they been found yet? the gold is Apapche booty or something else?

.... My primary interest here,is to set the record straight,for an exceptionally decent
man,by the name of Andy Mays--He should not be forgotten...!

David

Nobody seems to remember him but you, so how could we forget him?

P.S. I have reason to speculate,that the Beale gang,was getting their loot,from one of these hoards.

expand please

Pdiddy,

I hate to break the news to you, but in order for Andy to have rehidden 400 bars that Doc had removed from VP, Doc would have had to have removed a total of about 700. We know from Noss Family that Doc only removed about 300 bars in total. Only about 100 are unaccounted for (even though many of them have likely been recovered too).

Also, in Doc's words, most of the bars from VP were about 40 pounds each. There were smaller Wells Fargo marked Bars and smaller unmarked, but I recall nothing about 80 pound bars.

Mike

Yep,

A lot of people don't realize that Doc actually sold a LOT of gold over the years. Problem was, he just went and drank up all the money after the sale. He would disappear from Ova for weeks at a time while binging. Firewater Bad!

Mike

Wonder about what percent of gold was in the bars?? Were they really rich or have a lot of iron etc in them to make them like 60% gold and rest to be iron and silver???   rwd

According to the book, some were almost pure, and others were mostly copper.

Mike

According to the book, some were almost pure, and others were mostly copper.

Mike

What book?  Oh ... that one - almost forgot about it.