2011 DUTCH HUNTER'S RENDEZVOUS

Joe:
  I suspect a shovel would have necessary for a thorough search of any cave area which had a floor.If some sort of "treasure" was anticipated,and depending on the distance and difficulty of removing the accumulated guano from floor or ledges,they may have added...some... to the amount below.The "fan" of guano,several feet deep in places,extends the full width of the main undercut,about 250-300 ft. wide,and at least 200' down the slope.The opening at the top is centered and only about thirty ft. wide.I don't see how anyone could toss shovels full of guano over one hundred feet to the sides of such a precarious perch.The surface of the entire fan was covered by guano which was still in pelletized form,which to me suggests recent deposition.  From what we could see from below,the upper cave takes a form similar to that of the ceiling of an "A-framed" building....see the "maxed zoom,top of the ladder photo".The ladder continues upward an unknown distance though,and may very well end at a horizontal opening,undercut or ledge of some kind.At ground level there is a similar opening to the right....see the photo of Tim heading toward that open crack....and this photo by Tim of me going up to the same opening.About ten feed wide,this crack or fault continues upward to the crown of the undercut.It exhibited numerous ledges,some quite wide,and one such ledge can be seen in this photo.In addition to the ladder itself,scaffolding,or a "walkway" had been constructed,giving access to the left of the ladder just above where the ladder bends inward.
  There have been discussions in the past,which may have motivated those who built the ladder.Three which come to mind are:

--A place in the mountains from which members of the San Carlos community periodically remove "treasure" (perhaps only guano ?) for the purpose of raising cash for major communal purchases.This place has,as my often poor memory recalls,been sometimes called the "treasure cave" and has been described as "near the river".Once again though..."One man's treasure is another man's guano"
--A treasure in a cave,offered in trade by an imprisoned Geronimo,in exchange for his freedom.
--A cache,supposedly left on/in Black Cross Butte,by Apache Jack.

  The tales of gold bars found in caves elsewhere in the mountains by Brady and LaFrance also may have provided inspiration.

Regards:Wayne

Paul our hobbies are not fun unless there is a chance it will kill us

The squirrel photo reminded me of a police call from years ago. A very old couple called to report a monster in their bedroom. When I arrived they said they heard a noise in the bedroom wall. They cut a 2 ft hole in the wall to see what it was. Now this was quite a task the old guy was in a wheel chair and his wife used a cane. Well out came a monster thru the hole. They had it locked in the bedroom. I entered the bedroom gun drawn ready for action. The monster was a baby squirrel.
But to them it was a monster 

Two photos taken from above and across.

Time to get back to the 2011 Rendezvous!  More pictures:

Cousin Sam and Ralph visit with Baker Looney


Ernie Provence, Joe Ribaudo & Bob Corbin



Lawrence (Buscar) and friend from New York



Thomas Glover, Beth, Roy & Ralph.



Ralph talks it over with Cousin Sammy.


Tom Lamonica visits with Baker Looney, Greg takes notes.


Kitchen ready for the attack of the hungry hoard.


Ernie finally recognizes his old partner, Vince.


Roy with NO-SOCK coffee.


There are already plans afoot for next years event.

Once again, many thanks for all the help.  Ken, you were definitely a bright spot!

Joe

Joe, you are just going to have to  teach Beth how to use scissors, or let her borrow your weed burner,  that looks like a typical desert rat.

Don Jose de La Mancha

Don Jose,

I keep telling you every year - that is Roy WITH his hair cut.  I cut it just before we left South Dakota!!!  Geesh, we ARE desert rats!!! Who else
spends 4 or 5 months at a time away from home without a motel? And, he says its cheap insulation!!

Beth

Well, The Lost Dutchman Rendezvous, 2011 is in the history books.  I think there were more folks there this year. And, thanks to Joe and Carolyn, great food, and great company - as usual.  Thanks again, guys, and I am sorry we missed you going out - it took longer to pack up our stuff than we had planned.  The stew was G-R-E-A-T!!!!!

Got to meet new folks and old friends - didn't seem to be enough time to talk to everyone.  Have to thank everyone who brought "stuff". Ken and his U-Haul full of goodies, were appreciated by one and all, as was his impersonation of Sargent Shultz from Hogan's Heroes. 

The kielbasa, the hamburgers, the steaks - I think the grills didn't get a rest this year!!  It was great to see Joe and Carolyn, Tom and Sharon, Bob Corbin, Greg Davis, Randy, Paul and everyone again, and we were thrilled that Clay Worst made the Rendezvous.  The "question and answer" fest was great!  Did Greg have enough tape recorders? (yes, he did).

And, BB did show up, with equipment and friend, and "took the hike", as promised, and officially stepped into the Dutch Hunter community.  Like all of us who have searched (and still not found it), he "manned-up", came to the rendezvous, explained his theories (and, interestingly enough, had a copy of Killer Mountain - involving someone else at the rendezvous, Baker Looney, of the Magill party), hiked to his area of interest in temperatures of over 90 degrees, and returned to tell his story.

I gotta say, now - BB - was that hole REALLY empty, or are you hiding something from us??

We haven't got all our pics organized yet, as we just got home, but, when we do, we will post some more. For now, here are a few.

Beth

Ditto to all the good words posted, what a great rendezvous this year was!  At least it seemed so to me, about the only thing missing was our traditional campfire but it was pretty warm for that.  I only wish we had more time to spend with each friend, seemed like there was just not enough time.  It will be very tough to top this rendezvous.

I heard that the local TV news had a camera stop by, did the rendezvous make it on the local news?  I would love to see a clip of that if they aired it, and if anyone thought to record it. 

Don Jose de la Mancha wrote

Joe, you are just going to have to  teach Beth how to use scissors, or let her borrow your weed burner,  that looks like a typical desert rat.

Don Jose de La Mancha

YIKES!      Scissors are those scarey looking pointy things aren't they?  Almost as dangerous as those sharp razor-thingies, which I make a point to keep at least one step away from at all times!  As to my personal appearance, gosh amigo that was my Sunday-go-to-meetin' suit I wore, sorry about the mug but I do keep trying to warn folks not to damage their cameras by pointing them in my direction but some folks just won't listen.  I am sure you know just what I mean, since we look so much alike that many folks mistake you and me for twins after all.   

Great rendezvous, now to convince Don Jose to join us for next year, I am asking for all of you to help me talk him into it.  I swear that I won't be a-sneaking in to Tayopa during your time at the Dutch hunters rendezvous amigo, in fact you will see me there so it would not be possible. 

Oroblanco

 

2011, a year to remember! Here in Okla. we had the worst blizzard on record, tornado season was one of the worst on record, culminating with the destruction of Joplin, lots of flooding during the spring rainy season followed by horrible wild fires that led into the hottest summer on record. Top it off with a 4.7 earthquake this morning. (not much by ca. standards but unheard of here). Maybe those Aztecs were onto something with their end of the world thingy (2012). But on the other hand 2011 was the best rendevous  Ive been to so far. Kudos to Randy, Wayne, and Greg for organizing (Wayne Im still thinking Bluff Springs). Joe, you and Carolyn are some of the nicest people ever. Thank you for everything. Frank and Glen, thanks again for the dinner and letting me hang with you. Enjoyed seeing and talking to everyone. Cant wait till next year (If we're still here)                                         Ralph Johnson

Looks like it was a great time! I am going to have to make it out next year to mix it up with some young blood!(29).....

I love hanging out with the old timers hearing stories and a the wealth of information that most of the younger generation these days lacks..

Looking forward to next year!

It's a sign Ralph. Get out while you can!

Who is a lawyer in here???  I have excellent grounds for a contingency case,  Roy, 'IT', posted ---> I am sure you know just what I mean, since we look so much alike that many folks mistake you and me for twins after all.   
**************
sheesh,  can you imagine?? I am sexy, brilliant, a handsome, devil may care type, just made for romantic broads.  while he can't even keep peace between two modified, X man eaters.

sides -- (rre98tr8tr8y-yrt88y888,  and further more,  $%%^###^^^^&$$@  .

Welllll,  I do have to admit that he 'does' have more  hair ,  but that certainly isn't a  reason for showing off  sniff.-----Mine was partially burned off by the tropical sun.


Don Jose de La Mancha

---Mine was partially burned off by the tropical sun.
Don Jose de La Mancha

Real...
Is that why some things that you post are half-baked?

Just couldn't resist that...
Ken 'dustcap' Chichester

P.S. Now that I have a breather from H&R Block classes, I will try to get some pictures posted.

Who is a lawyer in here???  I have excellent grounds for a contingency case,  Roy, 'IT', posted ---> I am sure you know just what I mean, since we look so much alike that many folks mistake you and me for twins after all.   
**************
sheesh,  can you imagine?? I am sexy, brilliant, a handsome, devil may care type, just made for romantic broads.  while he can't even keep peace between two modified, X man eaters.

sides -- (rre98tr8tr8y-yrt88y888,  and further more,  $%%^###^^^^&$$@  .

Welllll,  I do have to admit that he 'does' have more  hair ,  but that certainly isn't a  reason for showing off  sniff.-----Mine was partially burned off by the tropical sun.


Don Jose de La Mancha

HAY I will be more than happy to handle your case for you amigo, for a small retainer fee (up front, payable in silver or gold, which ever you prefer) and work very cheap indeed.  You may wish to consider contingency plans on the infinitesimal small chance that I might not win your case for you.

As to the handling man-eaters, Beth may just take that as a personal insult, and who is the other one?      Your self-description I will take as a very high set of compliments, "sexy, brilliant, a handsome, devil may care type, just made for romantic broads" since we do look SO much alike!   Muchas gracias compadre, I am most flattered! 

I will wait for your retainer fee before filing the preliminary documents in the appropriate courts. 
Oroblanco

 

Uh -------- BROADS?

From Dictionary.com:


18.Slang. a.Usually Offensive. a woman.

b.a promiscuous woman.

Now, Jose, I KNOW that's not what you meant 


Beth

Beth:
  During the Rendezvous,I had mentioned a blue material which I had come across during a hike and was curious as to natural or man made.
As I recall,based on my description of the material's colour,texture and provenance,you had suggested a tentative I.D.
I cannot remember now what the name was,something mineral used in jewellry,but I later did come across another,which I photographed and sampled.

Then,later in the week while hiking with Tim,I spied another patch of this same substance.
This time though,when Tim pried it from the ground and broke it apart we found...string embedded within.
It was a balloon !! though unrecognizable as such.And so my description of the colour as "balloon blue" it least,turned out to be correct.
Goes to show  

Regards:Wayne


 

WOW, Wayne,

That is really a cool id. and a cool find!

It always amazes me what Arizona sun can do to things.  I was thinking lapis, but, the shade of blue is definitely not the same.

I'm glad you figured out what it was.

Any tags around?  You know, sometimes kids send off balloons with a little message to contact them when it is found.  That would be cool, too.

Beth

I guess I should say the rendezvous saved my life. After drinking a hundred cans of pop and falling on my face I went for a check up. Turns out I'm a type 2 diabetic and my blood sugar was off the chart. Now a week later after diet and exercise and a little white pill I'm back to normal.
So thanks Dutchman Joe.

WOW, Wayne,

That is really a cool id. and a cool find!

It always amazes me what Arizona sun can do to things.  I was thinking lapis, but, the shade of blue is definitely not the same.

I'm glad you figured out what it was.

Any tags around?  You know, sometimes kids send off balloons with a little message to contact them when it is found.  That would be cool, too.

Beth

Beth:

  I have never seen any other colour of similarly degraded balloon latex out there.If it wasn't for the string present in the piece that Tim broke apart,it would still be a mystery.As I had said at the time,I suspected it could be the remains of a party balloon,but looked more like a glob of blue paint.The first was also in a shady area,where I noticed it while taking a break from the sun.That place would only see direct sunlight early or late in the day.So likely just the heat from the rock.It was also mixed in with natural lichen on the rocks.No card or message with any of the three samples.I often come across bits of balloon and string tangled in brush,or amongst the rocks up high,but these are usually the metallic silver or gold type.I sometimes pack them out,where I can reach them.

Regards:
  Wayne

Frank, sorry to hear that bit of news. I remember you taking a nasty fall at the camp. Hope everything is ok now and remains that way.   R Johnson

sgtfda,

I'd say you are in pretty good physical shape - so, it was probably quite a surprise.  I'm glad you found it before you really had a "big" accident, and you know what to do, and how to manage it.

Very few people know they are diabetic until there is a problem.  It's just one of those "silent" things.  My brother developed type 2 - diagnosed in 2005, and he swore up and down that it was just because he had eaten a lot of cake the few days before his tests. (he is in good shape, too).

He refused to believe it, plus didn't believe that pasta was sugar, and, had to pass out and wreck his car before he figured out it was serious. (thankfully, the only thing hurt was his pride and his fender).

Now, he watches what he eats, takes his little white pill, walks and takes his blood sugar levels on a regular schedule.  He also finally got it through his head that he had to eat more often, because his would spike up, drop low, spike up, drop too low. (he always ate breakfast, but he would never eat lunch or snack, then he would eat a big dinner). 400, 70, 350, 71, up and down.  Now he has it on a nice level, and is feeling great. (and he doesn't get up in the middle of the night to drink and pee, anymore)  

Glad to see you didn't have to go through all that!!  You've got a lot of living left to do!!

Take care,

Beth


Wayne,

I still think its cool, even though its a balloon.  Like I said, it always amazes me what the desert can do to things.  Sometimes really makes it hard to figure out what you're looking at.  I always wonder, when we find strange things, how they got there. (kid at heart, I guess).

I've run across lots of those mylar balloons wrapped up in mesquite trees and such during hikes out there too.  If I can reach them safely, I dig them out and pack them out as garbage - I always expect to find one of those school kids notes attached, but haven't seen one yet.

Frank - glad the problem was caught early and I hope your diet and exercise are able to keep the diabetes in check.  My family has a history of that as well, which is the main reason my wife and I started a major exercise program a couple months ago and I'm slowly changing my diet as well.

As Joe is fond of saying, "it's hell getting old."

As Joe is fond of saying, "it's hell getting old."

Hmmm - I wouldn't know!



(sorry, I just couldn't resist that li'l dig - seeing I'm probably one of the more senior here ... RdT excepted of course)

Loker, you posted --> sorry, I just couldn't resist that li'l dig - seeing I'm probably one of the more senior here ... RdT excepted of course)
******************************

Here lies loker, who couldn't resist
he made pore Rdt a little bit psst'

so off they went to the tune of Ivan skavinsky skavar
they put on a show that drew peeps from near and far

the end was predictable when pore loker fell in disgrace
when it was shown that he couldn't put ole RdT in his place

Now life has returned tranquil and nice
ever since loker was put in his place.


    & smooches mi good friend  hehehehe loved your post.

Don Jose de La Mancha

duster you posted : -->Real...Is that why some things that you post are half-baked?
***************
    duster mi compadre and good friend:  It took you 4 1/2 months to come into this world, if anything I would sugggest that you came in half baked?  Need any help in leaving it?   hehheeh

 Hi and a good morning my friend,  that was a cute post that you made, loved it heheee.

Don Jose de La Mancha

Beth you need a vacation from that roy guy.   broad  can mean many things depending upon the intent or context of the saying..

generally speaking it originated in the 20's and 30's from gangster slang.    The end interpretation is in the category of -->.

you S.O.B is an excellent example. 

A) you ole SOB:  generally an extremely affectionate useage.

B)  You are a SOB:  generally fighting words, or very derogatory.

No one, knowing my particular admiration for the Good Lords work in creating well flung together 'Broads' just for me, can have any other conclusion than it falls under (A).   sigh.

Don Jose de La Mancha

[moderation]

Frank,

Sugar in moderation is not the real problem for most of us.  Bad news for us Italians is that pasta (carbohydrates) can put you on your face.  Found that out the hard way.  Fell flat on my face on our bathroom tile floor once.

Watch those bad boy carb's.

Glad you caught it before something really serious happened.

On all counts I am glad you made it to the Rendezvous.

Take care,

Joe

Joe,

Yep, we love our pasta. However, the body doesn't see "pasta", it sees "ah, ha! Instant energy - let all that other stuff go to the liver".  Of course, if your Langerhans (pancreas components) is working correctly, it doesn't affect your sugar levels, ever.

Plus, we have that dammed genetic thing - just like cholesterol - we cannot get away from that. (sucks).  When I was 68 pounds heavier, I was pre-diabetic) and really had nowhere to go with that, because I really eat very healthy. (I eat salad every day - with olive oil and wine vinegar), so, for me, it was obviously a weight issue - and a "get off your butt" issue - like a lot of other folks, I just assumed that working 12 hours a day would be enough exercise. (all on my feet). It wasn't.

My mother-in-law (not italian) had the same thing happen, Joe.  One second she was ok, the next second we were picking her up off the floor, and she didn't remember a thing (except that she split her nose open).  It reminded me of that Cheech and Chong movie, where they are in court, and the table jumps up and hits him in the face (it really didn't, but thats what it was like to him). I can say "ha, ha" now, but, at the time, it wasn't funny.

I'm also happy when someone finds out they have a problem - and does what it takes to control it - before it does real damage.  Its so much easier to manage when it is taken care of early - some folks aren't that lucky - or aware - and might not have gone to the doctor.

Its ALL good!!

Beth

Hello All...
Joe thank you and your beautiful spouse Carolyn again for your hospitality, I had a grand time!!

It was so wonderful to sit and listen to all the stories and finally put faces with posters.

Oro and Mrs. Oro, I really enjoyed meeting you both, you guys are really interesting and what great insight.

Randy as always, you are so gracious to the one odd duck in the camp (me) I appreciate someone keeping me from falling on my face.

sgtfda, I'm so glad you got to the bottom of that, take care it is nothing to mess with.

To all if you didn't go, you missed a very fun time, to those that did.. thank you for your patience with me.
Janiece

Thanks everyone!  Caught just in time. True the diet is a big change. You do what you need to do. I'm back to my old self. Was cutting the sky grass today (palms) what a pain in the

Janiece - it was great to finally meet you too!    <2 thumbs up!> We had a great time and wish there were more time, may have to get one of those little pocket tape recorders for next time; can't trust memory to keep all the great information and stories.

Frank, sorry to hear that news but it is good that you now know and can take the necessary steps to preserve your health.  I am glad that the fall did not occur on the edge of a cliff or other potentially lethal spot.
Roy

 

My apologies for the late post....been busy with work and such. Hate when that happens.   

Wanted to give a big thanks to Joe and his lovely wife Carolyn for their hospitality. The food was great!
Many thanks to all the others that made this newby feel welcome....I was camped on top the hill with the blue truck and awnings.  Didn't get to spend as much time as I wanted shooting the bull with everyone....did the tourist thing and enjoyed the scenery, sunsets and stars. Very relaxing!   Thank you Ken (dustcap) for pointing out who was who and sharing some good stories.    Thanks to Tim for talking me into that 2nd bowl of chili!   
I'm terrible remembering names, but glad I got to meet most of you....good people!
BB...glad you could make it! You did what you said you were gonna do....hats off to ya. (still wondering what was in that heavy bag I seen you loading in the trunk of the car)   
Got to visit a few places I've only read about in the area...Superstition Museum (finally got to see those stone maps), Casa Grande ruins, took the Apache Trail thru to Globe ...beautiful!  Lots more places and things to see out that way...maybe next road trip!   

                                                                    Txtea 
 
 

Txtea,

Thank you for the kind words.  This years event epitomizes the reasoning behind the creation of the Dutch Hunter's Rendezvous.

Carolyn and I were very happy with how it turned out.  Met a lot of new folks, and met a number of Internet friends for the first time.  Last time we saw Ernie Provence was around 40-years ago.  Rumor was he had passed away.


Ernie Provence, Joe Ribaudo and Bob Corbin.

Take care,

Joe