$30,000.00 Gold Payroll in DELAWARE WATER GAP

Is the Delaware Water Gap, Open or Protected ?

 SORRY No Date on this one

Jeff,
This could very well fall within the Delaware WaterGap National Park. If so, I guess it may remain lost forever.

Deacon

most of delware water gap is protected,national park,i only live 2 min from there,so many killer places to go,many old,old hotels that had burned down back in the turn of the century,you can go look but no touch,there is an old dutch settle ment from the 1600:s there but i have yet to find any trace of it,i know about where but no find yet. have had some severe flooding over the last 2 years ,it has just made it worse,,i keep looking....mike

most of delware water gap is protected,national park,i only live 2 min from there,so many killer places to go,many old,old hotels that had burned down back in the turn of the century,you can go look but no touch,there is an old dutch settle ment from the 1600:s there but i have yet to find any trace of it,i know about where but no find yet. have had some severe flooding over the last 2 years ,it has just made it worse,,i keep looking....mike

  With the amount of Flooding the Delaware has seen
over its History,
I would think Most treasures along it Were Washed South of
the Water gap & out of the National park Years ago.

   If there are 90 Degree Turns. Y's in the River, Islands,
etc, where things can get hung up, south of the National Park
they should be Trashy but also hold some intresting items.

The Park can stop you frome removing things.
But it can't stop the water from doing so  ;)

  The same should be Rememberd by Everyone who
is intrested in searching around National Parks.

Search to the South, along the Creek & River Banks.

Jeff is there anywhere in the state you don't have info on....LOL!!

Hey Mike, how 'bout finding out who owns the Buck Hill Inn, I'll make the permission call and me and Jeff will pick you up to hunt that treasure holder!!


Dave

Jeff is there anywhere in the state you don't have info on....LOL!!

Hey Mike, how 'bout finding out who owns the Buck Hill Inn, I'll make the permission call and me and Jeff will pick you up to hunt that treasure holder!!


Dave

This Place ?
You Know what County ?

DK , I sent you Fruther Details I have

buck hill inn barrett township pike county,im in the stroudsburg fire dept ,i will call the guys up in barrett fire to see who owns it ,we should be able to do some thing up there,there is a old foundation at the entrance to the golf course at buck hill,i read about it in a news paper from the 1800:S lets see what happens....mike

That's the place Jeff!!!!!!  I had the opportunity to photograph this place two years ago and I can only imagine what this was like in it's heyday!!

Lookin forward to what Mike can find out about this place, there are a few acres of potential at this site!

Dave

what you see in the picture is the dorm rooms for the employees it was set on fire about 1 to 2 years ago by some kids on drugs there is a tunnel that leads to the main building,i will try to go up tomorrow and take some current pics of the place,might take a couple of days to hear back about permission,yes there is a lot of property there,most people that went there had lots and lots of moneythey auctioned off most of the furniture,plates ,glass work,years ago huge crowd..if we get in there we should have a killer day,i will swing my detector till my arms fall off...lol...mike

the Inn



Links Provided by Mike

http://www.buckhillinn.com/property.html

http://www.tv.com/fear/buck-hill-inn/episode/137695/summary.html


http://www.buckhillinn.us/

Here's a Picture Show

http://groups.msn.com/buckhillinn/shoebox.msnw

Including the Fire

i made the phone calls lets see what happens,will post here

That place looks more spectacular in its day than the Shikellamy Hotel in it's day. Ofcourse that hotel burned also.

Erik

what burned was only the staff housing unit,its very small compared to the size of the main lodge

what burned was only the staff housing unit,its very small compared to the size of the main lodge

Did you guys lock this spot down?

no not yet i cant seem to get anyone to return my phone calls???

Jeff,
Greetings from NJ!
I have been looking into this story of the gold payroll in the gap and think I have found the spot where the canoe was beached. Do you have any more info on this story? Or a direction to point me in about this?
Seems to me theres a few scenarios that could be in order.
1.The only guy responsible for the gold died, so why not keep it and say it was lost?
or
2.It was found later and whoever found it kept thier mouth shut.
or
3.It was disloged by flooding and is in the bottom of the river downstream, if the box is intact
or
4. It was dislodged, broke open and coins scattered downstream.
or
5. Its still sitting there, hidden
or
6. Its under route 80 

What do you think?
Daniel

kuttothecheese i only live 2 minutes to the 1-80 bridge so if you would like to get together and go over what we know let me know,i have two other people that are also looking in to this ....mike p.s. if it in the river,after the last 3 huge floods that we have had over the last 2 years it is scattered to the wind

Sure, I am out the door to my day job now, but I'll get back to you later.
We need a date on this story.
Have a good one

Kutthecheese....

Sure, I am out the door to my day job now, but I'll get back to you later.
We need a date on this story.
Have a good one

Kutthecheese....

Try this...

The 1903 Vagabond Hurricane, as dubbed by the The Press of Atlantic City, is the most recent Atlantic hurricane to strike the state of New Jersey.[1] The fourth hurricane of the season, the cyclone was first observed on September 12 about 550 miles (885 km) northeast of Antigua. It moved quickly westward, then later turned to the north-northwest, steadily strengthening to reach a peak intensity of 100 mph (155 km/h). The hurricane weakened slightly before striking near Atlantic City, New Jersey on September 16 with winds of 80 mph (130 km/h). It weakened over Pennsylvania and became an extratropical cyclone over western New York on September 17.

My question is:  What kind of railroad work camp needs $30,000 in gold for the payroll?  That's either alot of guys or alot of overtime.

DCMatt

Good question, also, wasn't gold not used or prohibited in 1900?
That would make the hurricane at an earlier date.

[1915]

Franklin D. Roosevelt issued Executive Order 6102 in 1933 and the Gold Reserve Act in 1934, which outlawed the circulation and private possession of United States gold coins for general circulation.

Warren county, New Jersey: 1. Ghost Town: Millbrook 6 miles due N Blairstown. 2. GT Pahaquarry on the Delaware River, 7 ½ miles W Blairstown. 3. According to the records of the Pennsylvania RR dating back to 1915, a strongbox containing $30,000 in gold payroll was lost at the Delaware Water Gap on the New Jersey side of the Delaware River after a flood caused a washout of the tracks. The treasure was never recovered. 4. GT Mount Hermon 5 miles due E Columbia. 5. GT Petersburg 2 miles NW Hackettstown. 6. GT Rockport 3 miles SW Hackettstown.

From wikipedia - August 4, 1915: A tropical depression crossed the northern portion of the state (New Jersey), though damage totals are unknown.

I called the Delaware National Recreation Center anonymously and asked about metal detecting in the area.
The lady gave me a firm, "no". Due to our historical heritage that needs to be preserved.
I think that is such a crock.
So any looking will have to be done by eye or some other means, maybe dowsing, though I don't really believe in that kinda thing.
My excalibur sure gives off a nice BUZZZ! when it gets a target, sheesh, whats a TH to do?

Wow!, thanks for the info. Now to try and get some names of the paymasters, records of the railroad, locate the construction site, etc...
Got work to do

kut2thechase,i am sorry about the miss spelling of your name it was very early in the morning for me when i posted it,we are getting some good info on this!!! this weekend i am having a sit down with a local historian and i am going to pick his brain on many subjects including this one and tomorrow morn im off to fort depue- shawnee on the delaware so i hope to have some luck there the fort is at least 200 years old and i do believe it to be the only one left intact in monroe county,so yes get back to me and lets see if we can solve this!!!   

i should call the park service and ask the why is it that we cant hunt because they are saving our heritage then why were they going to flood the whole valley with the tocks island dam ,and have our heritage under the dam water just a bunch of bulls#@$ if they are so worried about it then they should go get it..the government forced all of those people out of there, torn down all properties for a dam that will never be built,

Im thinking of other methods to search, like magnometer along the river bed...

Sent an email to the NJ DEP stating I would like a permit to MD NJ state parks, specifically the NJ side of the Delaware water gap. That was last week, have not heard from anyone yet.

Hi, Y'all -

Couldn't help but take a look at this old topic. I wrote a book called "Devastation on the Delaware: Stories and Images of the Deadly Flood of 1955." It was published in October 2005 and is the only documentary of this event, still the record-setting flood on the river. It contains a LOT of info about historic floods on the Delaware, so it may be of some use in your hunt, if you're still looking for the strongbox. You can get it online at http://www.55flood.com.

I researched this topic for three years and found a lot of info sources during that time. Thought I'd share with you that the Monroe County Historical Society in E. Stroudsburg and also their public library there have awesome map collections with LOTS of old historic maps, which I used in my research. The local collection in the library is especially good, and I believe I remember some good stuff as well at the ESU library, too. They've definitely got an excellent microfiche collection of the old newspapers of the day. And if you contact the Barrett County Historical Society, there are a few old timers there who are just bonkers about railroad history and could probably tell you exactly where they think that box was buried. They meet at the old Cresco train depot building.

Here's a site from the Del. Water Gap Rec Area itself, where they share lots of RR info: http://www.nps.gov/dewa/parknews/back-issues-2003.htm

Two other possibilities for info on this are the Canal and Railroad Museum in Easton (just one floor above the Crayola Factory in the same building on the square) -- TONS of RR history and photos there. And there's a good network of website devoted to the whole PA/NJ RR, track systems that got washed out in '55, including the whole Nay Aug tunnel, etc. I know there's a Garden State Central Club (don't be put off at name differences -- the '55 flood was the beginning of the end for many of the lines -- especially the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western -- and they later merged), and here's one I used myself: http://hurricane.shohola.org/

I have to say, I don't remember reading about any major flood on the river between 1903 and 1942. The latter isn't a famous flood because it happened during WWII when the US didn't publicize any even that may have indicated to enemy powers that we were at all vulnerable. And then the next one after that was 1955.

For what it's worth, my first book was about the first century of statehood in Wisconsin, which has a long history of logging and trapping. I spoke with a number of historians who told me that people think stuff that goes into a river always gets washed away in flood, but surprisingly, that's mostly only true of stuff that floats. Things that are heavy tend to go rapidly to the bottom and to stay there, often within inches of where they first hit bottom. This is especially true of rivers with rocky bottoms, and especially in areas with rapids and riffles, because the flow of water around these rocks tends to drive stuff already at the bottom even further into the mud, or jams it up between other rocks.

Consequently, if you're brave and have a high tolerance for cold and a really good wetsuit, you can, to this day, still dive most of the rivers in Wisconsin and find items from the fur trade (circa 1700s right through about 1830-50, depending where you are). Most of these things lie among the rocks in higher-class rapids or directly below them, where canoes most often overturned. They're still bringing up old long rifles, strongboxes (with the wood still intact where the water stays cold), chains, traps, fire steels, trade beads, you name it.

I bring this up because A) I don't think there was a big enough flood between 1903 and 1955 to have washed that strongbox away, and B) even if the '55 flood DID chew it out of a bank, it wouldn't have gone that far before heading to the bottom. And I doubt it would have opened up unless something massive banged into it with a very sharp blow. And since everything else would have been moving along in the current with it, I don't think that's a likely scenario.

Oh, and BTW: I gave a talk just this past summer up at the Dingman's Ferry landing on this very subject, and the group arrived late. So, being a newb and having no idea I was doing anything wrong, I took out my Garrett Ace 100 and swung it around on a campsite while I waited. No one said anything to me, and I saw a ranger car, a park workman and the host ranger, and not one person said boo to me about it. I didn't realize until I was just reading here that I did a no-no. But just to say how I don't think anyone would say anything to you if you were to just nose around a bit... (and BTW, I only found pulltabs and a ball of foil - LOL. At least I had the common sense to fill my holes).

Good luck!

Mary in Bucks County

I like how the national park system claims about preserving the history, as an indian artifact collector at one time, I know whats in those fields being smashed by the farming machinery, bunch of bull if you ask me.   

thanks for the new info,I do have one correction that is small, monroe county historical society is in stroudsburg and so is the library..ESU is in east stroudsburg just want everyone to go to the right place.. as the story goes from what I have found out was the box was carried up the banks above the tracks along the river and hidden,for 3 days the R.R. company paid many to search for the box with no results how true this story is,your guess is as good as mine,I can not find a date to confirm that this did happen or any papers or news print my though on this is if it did happen is why where there only 2 people on the train with a box with that kind of value and since one of them died walking in to the company camp what happened to the other guy? 30,000 in gold coins has to weigh alot let alone what a copper box must weigh + how far could 2 guys possible carry it especially up hill!!! I have walked alot along the river on both sides, so many loose rocks very hard to keep your balance with out carrying anything...mike

Noone in their right mind is going to say they found it anyway---so you never know where it is.

This story has got to be one of the most peculiar I have ever heard of.
First of all the man seems to be in perfect health one minute then
he paddles up stream 100 yards with the gold and all of a sudden
becomes deathly ill and dies?
Don't you wonder what could have possibly happened to him?

Didnt the assistant paymaster go alone with the box of gold? If he only paddled up the river a hundred yards, why not go back and let the other guy try it? He didnt feel well enough to paddle, but was well enough to haul the box up the steep bank. Seems that if he did hid the box, he would have just hid it near the bank, and covered it with rocks or brush, since it was only a temporary hidding place.
Not saying something happend here, but maybe the facts are not quite accurate, including the amount of gold.

I didn't read the previous article, it seems the man had a pre existing heart problem and carrying the 100lbs of gold was too much for him.    I agree with you he couldn't have carried it far and more than likely a shallow hide.  I think he was actually traveling downstream since he was coming from NJ and the tracks are on the PA side.  It is believed that the cliff he referring to is a rocky grade with trees, but an account has him coming up the bank then crossing the tracks and then hiding it nearby.

That is just it. It sounds fishy.
So he probably was murdered and/or he and his partner were trying to steal the gold.

Would be interesting if you could find their trail on land and see if any loose coins were dropped--to heck with the chest.
Everyone and their Uncle would have been looking for that thing.

It is kind of a strange story.  First off I think the canoe could have easily handled
two people and 100lbs of gold. 
There seem to be a lot of conflicting information in this story too about where he was and where he
was going?  He said that he was 'paddling upstream' so that seems to locate the train on the south
side of the Gap on the PA side heading North.
I'm assuming the camp is somewhere near the Gap? The story says the tracks were washed out
and that he only had a few miles more to go?
If he was at the lower end of the gap, a few miles puts him just before the bridge.
Then he says that he beached the canoe on the right hand bank of the river, which is the NJ side right?
But the story initially says the left bank?   Which is it?
It seems as though he couldn't reach his intended point of two miles due to his feeling faint so he
beached the canoe somewhere before the bridge. 
The Delaware River is calm in some areas but I'm not sure what the current is like near the Gap?
Being that there was a storm there probably was some higher than usual currents?
Perhaps he made it to a point around the bend where he could just see the bridge a mile away then
decided to beach the canoe?   
I don't know what a PA RR construction crew would be doing on the NJ side of the River?  So I am
assuming the PA side where the RR tracks are is where he hid the gold.
He probably followed the tracks to the camp?   

Lots of conflicting facts, but still could be partly true. Whatever happened to the payroll shortfall, must be some records in the RR archives.

Trouble is, many of these Stories of lost or stolen payroll just end there, as if no one even cared that the money was missing, just go and get some more! I really doubt that $30,000 was small change in those days, or even today, so there should have been a lot of write ups about it.

$30K in gold is sure not pocket change in 1915.
I really feel sorry for this guy, he was the assistant paymaster
and I see him doing everything on his own?  He seemed like
a real good employee in going above and beyond the call of duty,
and his fate could have been prevented if his boss had an inkling of responsibility
in charge of the money and over the welfare of his asst.

Anyway, the guy is exhausted and faint already and then he has to haul
the money and hide it somewhere.  Someone here mentioned that the story
goes that he hauled it over the other side of the tracks and buried it.
The only landmark unfortunately is a cliff, but I think he was smart enough
to bury it near a tree or big rock possibly?

$30K in gold is sure not pocket change in 1915.
I really feel sorry for this guy, he was the assistant paymaster
and I see him doing everything on his own?  He seemed like
a real good employee in going above and beyond the call of duty,
and his fate could have been prevented if his boss had an inkling of responsibility
in charge of the money and over the welfare of his asst.

Anyway, the guy is exhausted and faint already and then he has to haul
the money and hide it somewhere.  Someone here mentioned that the story
goes that he hauled it over the other side of the tracks and buried it.
The only landmark unfortunately is a cliff, but I think he was smart enough
to bury it near a tree or big rock possibly?

Figure out what $30.000 dollars worth of Gold coins
today, Would have cost you in general Gold coins
in 1915 & That is probably what he was Carrying.

Probably  all in a Small payroll Coin Box

My guess the first person to Come accross this story,
& Publish it, used the Value the day he researched it.

Of course Value has increased since then even,
But so does  Exageration.

But still would love to find it 

I figured they were all $20 gold pieces
so 30,000/20 = 1500 1oz coins or
1500/16 = 93.75 pounds
plus the copper strong box.
But to set the stage, here are a bunch of
burly RR workers waiting for their pay and
all they get is the asst. paymaster with no gold.
They may have been a little upset by such a cocammamie
story as the one he gave them? a man traveling by canoe?
But on the other side of the coin, here's a guy in need of immediate hospitalization
and it sounds like he dies in the camp? Why?
If it were today, there would be a full scale
investigation and lawsuits by the surviving family.
Lets note that the exact location
was never given by him and why? 
It my have been that they disregarded his hard and dedicated work
and were more interested in the gold than getting him help?
This in part is probably why it has been lost to this day?

well that would mean about 300 workers
being paid $100.00 ?

of course alot depends on was it a weeks pay, months pay or ?
When I Got my first job in 1973 take home was about $120
a week

I Still find a workforce that high
in the turn of the century hard to believe

I'm still guessing the box weighed under 50 lbs.

but  

Yeah that does sound like a lot?
But it seemed as though they were in a big hurry to get that
to them, in light of the fact that the rail system operations
more than likely had been somewhat suspended due to the hurricane floods?
The payroll may have been for the clearing/repairing/replacing track--it
was more than likely a big project.
Hurricane Diane in 1955 washed out track and caused a suspension in operations
of the Deleware Lackawanna and Western (DL&W) Railroad for one month.
They could not recover and it lead to their downfall and subsequent merger with
their Rival Erie RR.

Also, PA RR dubbed itself the Standard Railroad of the world, touting a bigger budget than
the US government and employing over 250,000 workers.   I'm sure they didn't want any bad press.

It seemed like an emergency shipment of funds, due to the nature of risk involved.

After reviewing rail line maps, the PA RR didn't even own or operate on the PA side of the Gap.
This was run by the DL&W RR.  The PA RR only went as far North as Manunka Chunk in NJ.
Something doesn't make sense here?
 
 

OK so I found an old NJ map from 1903 which shows the NY Susquehanna and Western Railroad on the New Jersey side of the Gap where Rte 80 now is.   I was at the gap yesterday and the river was up to the banks big time.  I saw the cliff in question and there's really nothing but rock below, and large rocks at that which I80 abuts to.  There are no remains whatsoever of the old railway at all and the landscape has undoubtedly changed in a major way after I80.  Unless this gold was buried outside the I80 then in my opinion it is buried for good.  Also to note that the PA RR had no tracks on either side of the River (the PA side served by Lackawanna RR) and I could come up with no info at all about the PA RR operating near the gap?  I read that the Railroads back then were involved with not only transporting coal but involved in the actual mining as well.  Does anyone here have any info regarding what business the PA RR had at teh gap?  Thanks.

I get so mad at this national forest here. They wont let you do anything, pan for gold, metal detect, even ride horses. Yet they have entire villages, farmsteads, houses, etc that sit there and have gone from livable condition to now in extreme stages of rot and collapse. It is another case of do as I say not as I do, its crazy here and I am afraid to sneeze without a ranger coming up to me and issuing me a fine for bio-hazard contamination of their sacred space. I have done a lot of diving in the park, specifically right up river of where this location is (just up river of the old cement railroad arch bridge at the exit of the Gap right after the cliffs), If you are a diver, and it is still there after the recent flood, there is a neat old train wreck to dive in about 20 feet of water, if you park at the first parking lot (indian head?) right after 611 south exits the cliffs and go straight down one of the paths, and just north of the little beach there you will find it. An old box car full of miller bottles with the old foil labels, another train car as well, that looks like maybe it had a truck on it? all that's left is a big old dualie axle and tires on it. There is supposed to be a mail car too which must be under the muck as I never have found it. Word to anyone who dives it, do not bring anything up, there will be a ranger boat waiting for your return to the service, I can almost guarantee it, I think there was a ranger boat waiting every time I have ever returned to the surface, they are very bored rangers here.
My opinion on this safe is that if anything, one of the contractors that worked on the highway system when they built 80 had to have found it. They removed the lines and built the highway right up to the side of the river, if it is still there its probably buried under many feet of heavy riff raff.
This is how bad they are here, one time I found a spanking new golf ball that washed down from Shawnee golf course right upriver of this spot, so I grabbed it to give it to the dog on the boat awaiting our return to play with. I surfaced, brand spanking new looking golf ball in hand and there is a ranger boat there. Before I give it to the dog he grabs it from me. I now sit through a 30 minute reprimand of how I should not have brought this up from the bottom, now he has to go file hours of historical find paperwork because I broke the rules and brought something up from the bottom. He was so mad about this golf ball, I did all I could not to burst out laughing. Just a word to everyone, never get caught bringing anything up to the surface within park boundaries. I imagine if a pair of rangers saw me with a metal detector in the park one would keel over dead from a heart attack and the other would pull his gun and shoot me. This is a shame as there are so many good detecting spots littered throughout the entire park. The indians used to mine copper here so who knows what kind of neat artifacts you could find.
I also wanted to add, if the safe did get washed out into the river somehow, it gets very wide and straight from this point so it may not be too far away.

Wow interesting reply spelunk. 
You know the more times I read this story over again, I always find something new.
For one, the story tells that they were just below the gap when they encountered the
washed out track area.  Then it says that they would travel the remaining few miles
by canoe.
Lets say the asst paymaster hid the gold near where he beached the canoe.
He would then have to walk the remaining few miles to the camp.
This had always been my thought, but I'm not so certain anymore?
The story says that he stumbled into the camp exhausted.
I'm thinking that he carried the box as far as he could hoping he could
bring it to the camp? (the story says hid it while he was walking to the camp).
I know he had heart problems but to me this seemed like a man who always
got the job done.  Unfortunately he could not physically do it.
If the value was 30,000 back then, it would have weighed close to 100lbs.
and so he probably would have made some stops to rest.
How many stops before he hid it who knows? It was a long day.
That's just my theory, but it may not hold any weight because
allegedly near the canoe was found the key to the lock.
If this is true it tells me that he opened the box after getting it out of the canoe--
possibly to make it easier to carry the gold in several trips to its
final hiding place?  This would disprove the idea that he did not carry the whole
box up any part of the hill.  But he sure could have in several trips.